From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: books on musique concrete Date: 31 Oct 2000 23:43:14 -0800 "Patrice L. Roussel" wrote: > > People still wonder what is the use and achievements of IRCAM... Besides, > of course, being a vehicle for Boulez' ego. Um, creating MAX would be high on my list ... -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "The trouble with writing stirring manifestos is that one has to read them years later and ponder where things went wrong." -- Jaxon np: V/A, _Au Bal Antillais: Creole Biguines from Martinique_ nr: Charles Williams, _The Greater Trumps_ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sen" Subject: Re: books on musique concrete Date: 01 Nov 2000 09:45:12 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- Cc: "Scott Handley" ; "Zorn-List" ; Sent: mercredi 1 novembre 2000 1:48 > >Maybe in the couple of years following > > WWII, there was a natural antipathy between the French and Germans wh= ich > > contributed to the hostility. Anyway, as Patrice mentioned, eventual= ly the > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > I don't remember hearing of such hostility. Many German composers stopp= ed > by the Studio d'Essais and produced oeuvres using the fresh new techniq= ue. > This hostility actually existed. Schaffer describes it in the "L'oeuvre musicale" book (p. 49). The GRM was in Donaueschingen in 1953 to play "Orph=E9e 53". They was constant noise in the concert hall. For the final= , Pierre Henry's "Voile d'Orph=E9e", the uproar in the hall became so high = they had to continually increase the volume. By the end of the show, all Germa= ns had left the room and only accompanying Frenches remained there to congratulate Schaeffer and Henry. From this time on, writes Schaeffer wit= h humour, the GRM had to suffer "international reprobation". Sen. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dan hill Subject: Re: Godard ---no zorn Date: 01 Nov 2000 10:32:01 +0000 > >Histoire(s) du Cinema has been released on CD, audio only (perversely), > > >Has anybody heard this? I've been tempted to buy it just because the >rights issues with the original videos will probably prevent any official >release (if you've seen them you'll understand why). hi everyone sorry this is a little late, but m'learned colleague, simon hopkins, wrote a great review of 'histoire(s) du cinema' for motion ... simon reviews the package, text, sounds and all (and you can listen to a couple of excerpts) at: http://motion.state51.co.uk/reviews/630.html in doing so, simon also manages to write an extremely smart and timely piece on music and contemporary culture in general ... it's really very good. hope this helps. this release would obviously be just about "the best DVD ever", but that the legal problems (understatement of the year?) in clearing the footage make that near impossible. it's a fine package for an audio-only release, containing much text and images from the series, and impeccable ECM presentation. i occasionally catch myself absent-mindedly gazing at simon's copy, in reverie ... all the best, dan. -- ---+ dan hill [state51] ---+ new reviews on motion [30.10.2000]: < nobody | keith tippett | susumu yokota | cristian vogel | keiji haino w/ greg cohen & joey baron | xen cuts | sun ra | quasimoto | pimmon > http://motion.state51.co.uk/ +--- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_musique_concr=E8te_[2]_(and_French,_and_?= Date: 01 Nov 2000 07:37:32 -0500 At 10:34 PM 10/31/00 -0800, Scott Handley wrote: > >Are these assertions at all correct? (This excerpt >came to mind when I was reading list members' comments >on national tendencies toward the form [?], practices >and their [motivating] dogmas, and the waxing and >waning of scenes/practices. Hope it's relevant.) I'm >less interested in the O'Rourke connection per se than >whether he's touched on something important. Great interview, thanks for the pointer. My take on O'Rourke's statements is an example of how younger composers are rediscovering the tradition. Another take is the interview on Franciso Lopez' site at http://www.franciscolopez.net/int.html, where he says that one of the elements of the tradition that he likes is how the original sounds (in his case of rain forests) are removed from reality and becomes 'objets sonores'. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: Zorn life Date: 01 Nov 2000 08:44:24 -0400 Hello list, a little introduction before my question. Before becoming a Zorn (and experimental/avant garde) fan, I used to listen to a lot of english alternativa/pop music, as a matter of fact I still do. Things like DEPECHE MODE, CURE, MORRISSEY/SMITHS, PLACEBO, SUEDE, etc. Now, fans of that type of music are always very curious about each musician's life (are they married, are they gay/straight, where do they live, who they live with, etc.). You see each artists FAQ, and you find the answers to that kind of questions. OK, I guess I was a fan of that type of music for so long that it messed my mind up, and now i have to know the same things about John Zorn. So here it goes: Is he married? Is he straight/gay? Where does he live? (I read somewhere that he lived half of the year in NY and half in Japan, is it true? Who does he live with? and all those questions that have nothing to do with the music (or does it?) :-) Thanks, I hope I'm not the only one curious about this ... I don't want to end up a fool in the list ... or am i already a fool? Thanks in advance Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. JOHN ZORN - the big gundown (15th) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rob, the Belgian guy" Subject: Bowie goes ... Date: 01 Nov 2000 02:31:39 +0100 David Bowie's new acoustic project: David Bowie: all vocals, piano Mark Dresser: bass Joey Baron: drums Dave Douglas: trumpet Peter Epstein: soprano and alt sax Sorry guys, just dreaming out loud! Wouldn't this be a blast ??? I don't even know if Bowie plays the piano! Can anyone convince Bowie to make a good record again ? Greetings, www.rob.allaert.com "The goal is to bring the same intensity to listening as the performer to playing." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Bowie goes ... Date: 01 Nov 2000 09:37:31 -0500 On Wed, Nov 01, 2000 at 02:31:39AM +0100, Rob, the Belgian guy wrote: > Sorry guys, just dreaming out loud! Wouldn't this be a blast ??? I don't > even know if Bowie plays the piano! Can anyone convince Bowie to make a good > record again ? Bowie toured as Iggy Pop's pianist in the '70s. (A good record again? Granted that "Hours..." was underwhelming, but with "1.Outside" and "Earthling" he's otherwise been at the top of his game.) -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: books on musique concrete Date: 01 Nov 2000 07:56:00 -0800 On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:43:14 -0800 Jim Flannery wrote: > > "Patrice L. Roussel" wrote: > > > > People still wonder what is the use and achievements of IRCAM... Besides, > > of course, being a vehicle for Boulez' ego. > > Um, creating MAX would be high on my list ... I was thinking about music, not technology. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: books on musique concrete Date: 01 Nov 2000 08:10:53 -0800 "Patrice L. Roussel" wrote: > > > Um, creating MAX would be high on my list ... > > I was thinking about music, not technology. There's a difference? :-) -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "The trouble with writing stirring manifestos is that one has to read them years later and ponder where things went wrong." -- Jaxon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: Tre Nel 3000 in RealAudio Date: 01 Nov 2000 08:27:28 -0600 Just a quick note to let you know that this week's Mappings includes Zorn's Tre Nel 3000, as well as music by Pamela Z, Frank Zappa, Walter Zimmermann, Carlos Zingaro, Joseph Zitt, and Peter Zummo. I'm also in the process of expanding the archive of past play lists, so if you want to which composers whose names begin with other letters I've played on the show, now you can. Now, back to going through the last couple of weeks of accumulated Zorn list digests. Bests, Herb -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147 817 377-2983 herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Audino Subject: Re: Bowie goes ... Date: 01 Nov 2000 13:28:33 -0600 (CST) On Wed, 1 Nov 2000, Rob, the Belgian guy wrote: Actually, Baron played on Bowie's _Outside_ a few years back and Cuong Vu plays trumpet on a few tracks of his upcoming album. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: Xu Feng sample Date: 01 Nov 2000 17:22:04 -0400 Hello list, anybody knows where the XU FENG samples are from? You know, the "Don't you F* wiht me, man", "How Rude", etc. The first time I heard the first one, I thought it was Woody Harrelson!!!!! maybe from NATURAL BORN KILLERS, I don't know, to me it sounds like him. Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. MEDESKI MARTIN WOOD - best of - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: terminology: acousmatic Date: 01 Nov 2000 16:38:08 EST even though i listen to and love all this electronic/tape/cut-up/weird stuff, i'm still lost about some terminology: does 'acousmatic' specify a particular genre of electro-acoustic music? probably jason and jon can straighten me out on this word, which for some reason always gave me the creeps. steve koenig n.p.: stilluppsteypa: ep (soleilmoon); bohuslav martinu, works for duo piano (elan) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: Re: gunter hampel & jeanne Date: 01 Nov 2000 16:56:28 EST << Makes me wonder if Gunter Hampel is still alive.... The album with Blake sounds great. >> dear matt, gunter is still quite alive and kicking, at 63yo, releasing lots of fine discs on his still-continuing Birth records, probably the longest-lived artist-owned label starting around 1965. he peformed at the knit last week, tho i wasnt able to catch him. i recently did an extended interview with him that im still looking to place, as it is long and rich with history and opinion. the first rca blake/lee disc ive only heard on the bluebird reissue, so muffled with sonic solution that it is unlistenable; i become physically ill. there's another disc on owl (france)with that duo from more recent years. if i might transmit info on jeanne from an excerpt of gunter's longer letter: I am sorry to report that the great JEANNE LEE has died Oct.24-2000 in Tijuana, Mexico. On behalf of the Hampel-Lee-Family, with our daughter Cavana Lee-Hampel, son Ruomi Lee Hampel, grandson Beleil and Jeanne's daughter Naima Lee-Hazelton we are at a great loss, my personal and musical unity journey with Jeanne from 1967-2000 created not only Jazzhistory-making personal triumph and masterpieces including worldwide performances....great LPs and CDs but also the creation of Theater-pieces, Dance-pieces, Poetry and music, workshops with and for children, grownups, musicians, dancers. Our Duo concerts let Dizzy Gillespie remark: "You continue our great music there, where our horizon had ended, you are the continuum, the new." .. ..Jeanne is one of a kind, as a person and as an artist, her contribution to mankind is manifestated, noticed and celebrated... influencing generations to come. I have tried to document as much as possible ...on LPs,CDs,Books,Videos (BIRTH RECORDS; www.gunterhampelmu sic.de,GuntHampel@aol.com) on my and our beloved Jeanne, I had the favor to share love, feelings, understanding, care, spiritual awareness, creative work and cultural responsibilities, and an incredible sense for all the injustice ruling our blue planet. 33 years of sharing life together like this, becoming each other in the proceeding, she is the most highly respected and beloved human, soul and spirit I have met on my 63 year long pilgrimmage. To relate in words her greatness will be impossible for me, but listening to the depth of her most human voice, her incredible timing, I think she and Louis Armstrong have the best timing in Jazz, her poetry and her music is the right thing to do to understand her and her contributions, she made for all of us. sincerely, Gunter Hampel, Oct.27,2000 (Anyone, who wants to help, financially or with working on helping to continue publishing documentations on Jeanne, or never before released products.please contact me.) Gunter Hampel 211 E 11 St#2 New York City 10003 T. 212 - 477 1695 GuntHampel@aol.com www.gunterhampelmusic.de BIRTH RECORDS p.rEIS sTR.10 37O75 Goettingen o551-3 18 71 Fx o551 - 3 17 42 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "samuel yrui" Subject: The Arkestra NOW Date: 01 Nov 2000 16:12:03 CST hey, what does the Sun Ra Arkestra sound like now? (I mean, what directions has it gone in since the great Ra's death?) thanks, and recommended recordings and where to get them perhaps? -samuel _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Moudry Subject: Re: The Arkestra NOW Date: 01 Nov 2000 16:19:30 -0600 At 16:12 01-11-00 -0600, you wrote: >hey, > what does the Sun Ra Arkestra sound like now? (I mean, what directions > has it gone in since the great Ra's death?) > > thanks, > and recommended recordings and where to get them perhaps? > Samuel, This URL will get you to an excellent review of the Arkestra's latest CD, which contains all the information on ordering it. Good disc, but not totally representative of what they're about. The Arkestra, under the excellent direciton of Marshall Allen, is currently on a tour of Europe (details may be found on my Saturn Web in the Concerts Area). Hope this helps. Saturnally, Joe Moudry Office of Academic Computing & Technology School of Education, The University of Alabama @ Birmingham Master of Saturn Web (Sun Ra, the Arkestra, & Free Jazz): Producer/Host of Classic Jazz & Creativ Improv on Alabama Public Radio: WUAL 91.5FM Tuscaloosa/Birmingham WQPR 88.7FM Muscle Shoals/NW Alabama WAPR 88.3FM Selma/Montgomery/Southern Alabama - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: terminology: acousmatic Date: 01 Nov 2000 18:05:08 -0500 At 04:38 PM 11/1/00 EST, Acousticlv@aol.com wrote: >even though i listen to and love all this electronic/tape/cut-up/weird stuff,=20 >i'm still lost about some terminology: > >does 'acousmatic' specify a particular genre of electro-acoustic music? The term seems to have been created, or at least popularized, by Michel Chion. Here's a definition I found by searching google for the term: Acousmatic music is music that is recorded and then diffused without combination with live electronics or live performers; it exists only on tape (whether analog or digital) or as a fixed set of instructions to a computer. The term acousmatic is preferred to concr=E8te as it emphasises th= e way in which the 'real' acoustic source is assumed to be hidden from the audience. Acousmatic music does not exclude the use of synthesis or sound processing; but these processes must be employed in the making of a fixed artefact that is then diffused, rather than employed during performance.=20 -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ObviousEye@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #148 Date: 01 Nov 2000 19:55:14 EST --part1_cc.c151070.27321572_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/31/00 8:11:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes: > NR: Albert Camus L'Etranger > > Great book. one of my absolute favorites. ben --part1_cc.c151070.27321572_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/31/00 8:11:22 AM Eastern Standard Time,
owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes:


NR: Albert Camus L'Etranger



Great book. one of my absolute favorites.

ben --part1_cc.c151070.27321572_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: Zorn life Date: 01 Nov 2000 17:48:33 -0800 (PST) --- "Neil H. Enet" wrote: ...and now i have to know the same things > about John Zorn. So here it > goes: >Is he married? Is he straight/gay? Where does he > live?... DUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTHDUCKWORTH. And to a lesser degree... ARCHIVEARCHIVEARCHIVEARCHIVEARCHIVEARCHIVEARCHIVEARCHIV But, chopsbusting aside, please go look at the extensive interview with William Duckworth in his book TALKING MUSIC. See: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0306808935/qid=973129539/sr=1-4/103-8865598-1222264 And you might check out the New Yorker article from this/last year (time flies on the Zorn list). ---s, lives in car, owns LOTS of recordings NP: Godspeed You Black Emperor, RAISE YOUR SKINNY FISTS... (Kranky) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer. http://experts.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sinkas" Subject: Re:Bowie goes ... Date: 02 Nov 2000 14:59:26 +1030 Have people hear of his new album "toy" with Annette Peacock etal its a album of unsued ideas form the 60's of his etc, Case "Alma Matters" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ian Farrell Subject: Re: : Re: : Zorn life Date: 02 Nov 2000 01:14:26 -0500 > From: Scott Handley > Subject: Re: Zorn life > ARCHIVEARCHIVEARCHIVEARCHIVEARCHIVEARCHIVEARCHIVEARCHIV what? Archi Vearchi? Author? what is the name of his book? > William Duckworth TALKING MUSIC > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0306808935/ > qid=973129539/sr=1-4/103-886 5598-1222264 thanks for the URL! it is on order! > And you might check out the New Yorker article from > this/last year (time flies on the Zorn list). can you give a better date of this NYer article? THANKS! ian - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?NYC=20show:=20L=EA=20Quan=20Ninh/nmperign=20at=20?= Date: 02 Nov 2000 01:33:01 EST I'm very, very excited to announce the following show on November 13 at=20 Tonic. I hope to see some of you there. please tell anyone else you think ma= y=20 be interested, since this show was just scheduled. L=EA Quan Ninh and nmperign at 8:00 PM, $10 double bill The NYC debut of French percussionist extraordinaire L=EA Quan Ninh, who has= =20 worked extensively in both the improv and the contemporary classical genres.= =20 He's a member of the Quatuor H=EAlios, and has recorded for FMP and For 4 Ea= rs.=20 Tonight marks the start of his month-long US tour to celebrate his=20 just-released duo CD with G=FCnter M=FCller, La Voyelle Liquide (Erstwhile).= =20 nmperign are a much-acclaimed duo from Boston, Greg Kelley on trumpet and=20 Bhob Rainey on soprano sax. As a duo, they've recorded for Twisted Village=20 and Intransitive, and have a CD due out soon on the prestigious Selektion=20 label. As solo artists, Kelley has just released a superb CD, Trumpet, on=20 Meniscus, while Rainey is about to release a highly anticipated split LP wit= h=20 Kevin Drumm (Fringes).=20 Ninh and nmperign will play separate sets tonight, then all three musicians=20 will play a third set, the first time they will have ever performed together= .=20 Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_NYC_show:_L=EA_Quan_Ninh/nmperign_at_Tonic=2C_11/13?= Date: 02 Nov 2000 03:13:49 -0500 Here's the rest of the dates, by the way. I was planning to go see him i= n Easthampton, but I just realized that I have a theme week radio show that night. We'll see. -Jesse 13 nov : New York (Tonic) with Greg Kelley and Bhob Rainey 14 nov : Annandale NY (Bard College) - solo 15 nov : Easthampton MA (Flywheel) - solo 16 nov : Boston MA (Twisted Village) - solo 18 nov : Pittsburgh PA (Millvale Industrial Theater) - solo 21 nov : Detroit MI (Entropy Studios) with Mike Khoury and Ben Bracken 22 nov : Toronto (The NOW Lounge) with Maury Coles, Arnd Jurgensen and Tomasz Krakowiak 24 nov : Chicago IL (Lampo) with Guillermo Gregorio 25 nov : Madison WI (Wendy Cooper Gallery) with Scott Fields 26 nov : Minneapolis MN (Gus Lucky's) - solo 29 nov : Denver CO (Museum of Contemporary Art) - with Jack Wright 30 nov/1 dec : Colorado Springs CO (Colorado College) - solo 2 dec : Albuquerque NM (The Outpost) - solo and with J.A. Deane 9 dec : San Diego CA (Spruce Street Forum) - solo ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 1:33 AM > I'm very, very excited to announce the following show on November 13 at > Tonic. I hope to see some of you there. please tell anyone else you thi= nk may > be interested, since this show was just scheduled. > > ------------------------------------ > L=EA Quan Ninh and nmperign at 8:00 PM, $10 double bill > > The NYC debut of French percussionist extraordinaire L=EA Quan Ninh, wh= o has > worked extensively in both the improv and the contemporary classical genres. > He's a member of the Quatuor H=EAlios, and has recorded for FMP and For= 4 Ears. > Tonight marks the start of his month-long US tour to celebrate his > just-released duo CD with G=FCnter M=FCller, La Voyelle Liquide (Erstwh= ile). > > nmperign are a much-acclaimed duo from Boston, Greg Kelley on trumpet a= nd > Bhob Rainey on soprano sax. As a duo, they've recorded for Twisted Vill= age > and Intransitive, and have a CD due out soon on the prestigious Selekti= on > label. As solo artists, Kelley has just released a superb CD, Trumpet, = on > Meniscus, while Rainey is about to release a highly anticipated split L= P with > Kevin Drumm (Fringes). > > Ninh and nmperign will play separate sets tonight, then all three musicians > will play a third set, the first time they will have ever performed together. > > ------------------------------------------------- > > Jon > www.erstwhilerecords.com > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: last night's Stilluppsteypa/TV Pow show Date: 02 Nov 2000 03:09:18 -0500 I had the pleasure of attending this concert as well, and although I still consider myself rather uninformed about the current overall electro-improv genre (thus at least partially explaining my tardy response), I'm doing my best to educate myself in a hurry, and just bought 5 discs from Jon today in order to move the process along. So here are my observations, with everything in quotes being from Jon Abbey's original message... > the sets were quite interesting in juxtaposition, at least for me. TV Pow > played first, and they come from an improv background, so their set was > fairly linear. what I mean is that while they covered quite a bit of range, > there was always some degree of continuity throughout the set. Agreed. I liked the way the set progressed in a more-or-less developmental fashion, as opposed to startling and inexplicable jump cuts. Such jump cuts in Zorn's music make sense to me because they're largely referential to an underlying narrative ('Spillane,' 'Godard') or comprised of elements from music that I do know ('Xu Feng,' Naked City). But in a field of music like this, where I don't know the direct antecedents (I'm still painfully unaware of things like Panasonic, Oval, ISO and the Mille Plateaux/Ritornell scene), it really helped me that I could follow the way TV Pow moved from idea to idea in an incremental way. Did that make any sense whatsoever? I would like to have heard more from TV Pow - I clocked their set at around 20 minutes. They were pretty remarkable. > Stilluppsteypa focused more on connecting different segments > and stretches, with more of a jump cut approach. some of the stretches and > sounds they produced were superb. Agreed here as well. Again, I perhaps don't have the language to clearly describe this as yet, but I found myself a bit adrift at times during the Stilluppsteypa set (which I clocked at about 40 minutes). Sometimes my attention would wander away from the music, and then suddenly everything would change and I found my attention really glued to what was happening. If that's indicative of the "jump cuts" that Jon refers to, then perhaps I'm on the verge of understanding what's going on... and honestly, my mind wanders during acoustic improv music as well, sometimes, which leads me to believe that somehow it's all the same basic impulse... > the combined set brought together the > strengths of both groups, despite only lasting 10 or 15 minutes. the linear > flow of TV Pow combined with the superb soundmaking ability of Stilluppsteypa > to produce some very impressive music. Agreed once again, but here I wasn't completely certain what was going on until it was explained to me later (via Jon's post and a conversation we had after the show)... and for what it's worth, I clocked this at about 15 minutes as well. First, as Jon mentioned, it was quite uncluttered and didn't always sound like there were six different people making sounds. So I wasn't always entirely certain how much actual interaction was taking place. But on reflection, given that the collaborative set didn't sound exactly like either of the sets that preceded it, I suppose THAT should have been the biggest clue that there was in fact a fair amount of listening and interaction going on. For instance, if there had been six acoustic instrumentalists onstage and two or four of them weren't playing at a given time, I'd have been able to discern that immediately. With laptop computers it's a bit different - the six musicians LOOKED pretty much the same most of the time, whether they were making sounds at the time or not. And second, after a while, one of the members of Stilluppsteypa left the stage while the music was still going on, followed shortly by another. The music ended with one member of Stilluppsteypa onstage and the three members of TV Pow smiling a bit sheepishly. So I'm sitting there wondering: What just happened? Did TV Pow play something that pissed off Stilluppsteypa? It wasn't until this afternoon ,when Jon explained to me that one of the members of Stilluppsteypa was *literally* ill and couldn't play any longer, that I fully understood what I'd seen and could relate it to what I'd heard. And to some degree, that actually helped to humanize the entire evening to me. In fact, let me venture one further observation. I attended this evening of music as much to learn as to enjoy, but at the same time I found myself a bit wary, given my lack of familiarity with the electro-improv scene and its key players, wondering how much I "wouldn't get." And while I derived a great deal of pleasure from the music that was played, I still found myself a bit at odds because I guess I still don't understand the basics of HOW these musicians are making the music they make on their laptops. Don't get me wrong - I'm not into the notion that it's a drag because all they're doing is typing and pointing and clicking, and I'm certainly not advocating a return to the Roxy Music-era Brian Eno approach of wearing glittery costumes and enormous feather boas so that the smallest physical move is visually amplified, nor am I rebuking Anthony Braxton's stance regarding the "myth of the sweating brow." Instead, let me put it this way: I *understand* how sound is produced by a guitar, both in traditional and untraditional ways. Same goes for a saxophone, a trumpet, a drum, a piano, and so on. And I'm not out of touch with the notion of making sounds with analog synthesizers (thanks to college classes in electronic music) or turntables (thanks to college listening to Christian Marclay). So is it perhaps, then, that my lack of understanding of the mechanics of music production using laptop computers has made me feel so out of touch? And if so, is there a simple primer that might help me (as a layman) understand what all these people with blue and green screens reflected on their faces throughout their gigs are actually *doing* with their computers to make those sounds I'm hearing? Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Burkhard Stangl/Christof Kurzmann, "in einem jahr mit 13 monden," 'Schnee' (Erstwhile) - absolutely exquisite listening, regardless of context... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: last night's Stilluppsteypa/TV Pow show Date: 02 Nov 2000 03:56:45 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- > Marclay). So is it perhaps, then, that my lack of understanding of the > mechanics of music production using laptop computers has made me feel so out of > touch? And if so, is there a simple primer that might help me (as a layman) > understand what all these people with blue and green screens reflected on their > faces throughout their gigs are actually *doing* with their computers to make > those sounds I'm hearing? They're probably doing a lot of things. I won't try to be comprehensive here, just broad (and brief). There's synthesis and then there's processing. The former being the same as in an analog synth, but with computers, there's a lot more control (maybe not mechanically i.e. no sliders and knobs, but with what parameters you can control and by what increments). Probably, you have either some kinds of oscillators or noise generators or other generic sound sources which you can tweak in various ways. Then you can start and stop these sounds in various ways to make short or long sounds. Processing would involve taking some samples or other material and applying various effects. A lot of this would be stuff you can get in guitar pedals (though again, more tweakable), but there's also more elaborate stuff like granulation or using pitch as a control. You can also get various kinds of sequencing, which is essentially placing your sounds in time. So you can make patterns and what not. That's pretty vague, but it's late, and I'm too tired to write more. basically, I think it's easiest to think of a laptop as a really powerful synthesizer in one box, except that you can essentially design the whole synth yourself in software. And maybe add a sampler and sequencer. Helpful? -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nuno Barreiro Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #150 Date: 02 Nov 2000 13:32:05 +0000 > People still wonder what is the use and achievements of IRCAM... Besides, > of course, being a vehicle for Boulez' ego. I think you are a little harsh on IRCAM. Of course Boulez is an asshole, but, fortunately, IRCAM is not just Boulez. They develop interesting tools to work with sound synthesis as well as software for education (showing, for instance, a 2D membrane vibrating in 3D that you can virtually hit like a drum... quite spectacular and much more exciting than the vibrating string). > More important would be the harsh criticism that Boulez threw on the > whole musique concrete after a short stay there. Knowing the respect (often > based on intimidation) that Boulez gathered in the late '50s, any critic > from him was equal to a death penalty. For him musique concrete was not > serious (in fact like any other genres of music except his own). I agree 100%. The only french composer that has survived in the Boulez reign is Varese: he was older and already established (and also respected) when Boulez (with his undeniable charisma) has started his death penalty jugements. Boulez did not even try to go against Varese. From my viewpoint, he was quite clever not to, since Varese is clearly a genious... and, of course, Boulez music stinks... Just go through his hit pick "Improvisations sur Malharme'" to hear what I mean. Nuno - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: orrick@earthlink.net Subject: laptop instruments Date: 02 Nov 2000 08:05:37 -0600 >From: Steve Smith >Subject: Re: last night's Stilluppsteypa/TV Pow show >... is there a simple primer that might help me (as a layman) >understand what all these people with blue and green screens reflected on >their faces throughout their gigs are actually *doing* with their computers to >make those sounds I'm hearing? To have a better understanding of the instrument visit www.steim.nl (the Studio for Electro-Instrumental Music). You can get a free demo version of LiSa (live sampling), the software used by Kaffe Matthews and others. This product runs on mac powerbooks using the built in audio interface. I heard her use this system for a performance she arrived at without any prepared samples. Source sounds were obtained live with wireless mics located just outside the peformance space. Orrick n.p. Edgar Meyer Bach cello suites on double bass - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: last night's Stilluppsteypa/TV Pow show Date: 02 Nov 2000 10:31:10 -0500 Really good show from Stillupsteppya, TV Pow, and localite 87 Central here in DC last night. While it felt like everything (except the closing collaboration) went on too long for my tastes, I rather enjoyed it. This was the first show I'd seen of laptop music, and it was more compelling than I would have thought. While I could see little of what the players were doing, the quality of attention evident in their faces and postures made it clear that they were actively doing *something*, even if we couldn't tell what it was. Interestingly, while the sets by the groups on their own were both somewhat noisy, the collaboration was quite lowercase. I got the feeling that, having established the general steadystate sound that lasted throughout the piece, each was contributing the quiet burbles and samples vaguely audible beneath it. Good stuff. The owner of the space, BTW, who was also new to the genre, picked up on what she heard as samples of babies crying, failing machinery, and the like, and asked if there was an apocalyptic streak that characterised the field as a whole. Hmm. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joslyn Layne" Subject: Pisa/Florence recommendations? Date: 01 Nov 2000 11:19:16 -0500 Hello folks, i am going to Pisa next week for the Italian Instabile Festival! i'll have a couple of days to tool around, so if you have any must-check-out recommendations, just email me-- i'd certainly appreciate the info! thanks, joslyn - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: last night's Stilluppsteypa/TV Pow show Date: 02 Nov 2000 12:00:58 EST In a message dated 11/2/00 3:33:53 AM, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: << I attended this evening of music as much to learn as to enjoy, but at the same time I found myself a bit wary, given my lack of familiarity with the electro-improv scene and its key players, wondering how much I "wouldn't get." And while I derived a great deal of pleasure from the music that was played, I still found myself a bit at odds because I guess I still don't understand the basics of HOW these musicians are making the music they make on their laptops. >> while not answering Steve's question directly, here are some related thoughts: this set was somewhat unusual, in that it involved multiple laptop performers at the same time (six in the third set). most of the laptop shows I've seen are either solo, or with some other instrument (Stangl/Kurzmann, for instance). so you don't know how the sounds are being produced, but at least you know who is producing them. the other thing which is occasionally done is to let the audience see what's going on on the screen, either via a projection behind the musician, or in the case of the 24 hour MIMEO show, by seating the musicians around the outside of four tables shaped in a square, so that interested audience members could look over the shoulders of the musicians while they were playing. this is obviously less feasible with one or two musicians though. the last point is more of a personal one. I find that one difference between this new wave of electroacoustic improv and much recent experimental acoustic improv, is that which musicians are producing which sounds is much less important than the soundscape taken as a whole, and that some of the most successful combinations are the ones in which individual identity is almost entirely submerged (the titles which come to mind that best represent this are Particles and Smears and La Voyelle Liquide, both on Erstwhile, sorry). I believe this philosophy largely comes from AMM, although they were more interested in sticking rigidly to this earlier in their careers. so, to roughly quote P-Funk, "sit back, relax and dig while they do it to your earhole!" Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: re: terminology: acousmatic Date: 02 Nov 2000 11:11:26 -0600 (CST) steve koenig asks: >does 'acousmatic' specify a particular genre of electro-acoustic music? and then caleb gave a definition snipped from somewhere on the web. i'm familiar (slightly) with the term from some exposure to musical aesthetics, and the sense in which the term is used in that context is much more broad. one begins by noting that music (or sound in general) differs from other sorts of experience in that it does not need to be experienced as inhering in some object. for example, color cannot be experienced except as the color of something (a red apple, a blue book, etc). but sound can be experienced independently of any object. so sound is referred to acousmatic, and the experience of sound is acousmatic experience. [at least that's the story; i'm not sure what one makes of (i) visual hallucinations or (ii) the fact that the experience of sound carries spatio-temporal information] then, i suppose one can cash out concrete music as the process of detaching sounds from their objects, making the experience of those sounds acousmatic. so concrete music is just one variety of acousmatic music. in contrast with the definition given by caleb, this weaker usage makes no restrictions on the sort of object that actually produces the sound. that is, the sound need not be fully determined (e.g., on a tape, as a fixed set of computer instructions) to potentially generate an acousmatic experience. one need only detach the sound from the object producing it, and presumably closing one's eyes during a performance works just as well as taping a sound and playing it back at some other point in time. roger scruton has a discussion of the term in the first chapter of his _aesthetics of music_, and i think i've captured the essence of his usage here. hope this helps, whit - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #150 Date: 02 Nov 2000 09:58:21 -0800 On Thu, 02 Nov 2000 13:32:05 +0000 Nuno Barreiro wrote: > > I agree 100%. The only french composer that has survived in the Boulez > reign is Varese: he was older and already established (and also respected) I am not sure what you mean by the above... Messiaen does not apply? > when Boulez (with his undeniable charisma) has started his death penalty > jugements. Boulez did not even try to go against Varese. From my viewpoint, > he was quite clever not to, since Varese is clearly a genious... and, of course, > Boulez music stinks... Just go through his hit pick "Improvisations sur Malharme'" > to hear what I mean. To dismiss somebody like Boulez you will need more than statements like "Boulez music stinks..." (I mean, we are not talking of Limp Bizkit here). Not to mention that "Improvisations sur Malharme" is, I think, a great composi- tion. Hardly something that I would use against him. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lenny Barszap" Subject: PIGPEN show!!!!!! Date: 02 Nov 2000 12:25:21 CST If anyone in the Seattle area doesn't know, Pigpen is playing again! If anyone is going and will be recording these shows, I'd greatly appreciate setting up a trade for copies of them: at the OK Hotel Cafe, Seattle, WA Thursday, November 9th in the ballroom 1st Set - "Zony Mash + Pigpen = Mashpen" with guests Briggan Krauss, Fred Chalenor & Mike Stone -first Pigpen performance since 1996! 2nd Set - "Zony Mash & ZM Horns" cover - $8 Friday, November 10th in the ballroom 1st Set - all improvised set with special guests Eyvind Kang, Briggan Krauss and others... 2nd Set - "Zony Mash & ZM Horns" cover - $10 ZM Horns are: Skerik: Baritone Sax Briggan Krauss: Alto Sax Dave Carter: Trumpet Steve Moore: Trombone I wish I could be there, but unfortunately those type shows don't come to Austin! Lenny http://www.tapercities.com/TheCrossroads/lendakike/traders.html _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Kinda OT- Rev. Fred Lane Date: 02 Nov 2000 13:47:10 EST --part1_47.2ef95a2.273310ae_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just got my CD copies of both Rev. Fred Lane albums on Shimmy Disc. I remember reading somewhere the true identities of the musicians behind these...ahem...classics. I'm pretty sure Davy/LaDonna Smith and Chadborne being in the list. Can somebody provide a complete list? --part1_47.2ef95a2.273310ae_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just got my CD copies of both Rev. Fred Lane albums on Shimmy Disc.  I
remember reading somewhere the true identities of the musicians behind
these...ahem...classics.  I'm pretty sure Davy/LaDonna Smith and Chadborne
being in the list.  Can somebody provide a complete list? --part1_47.2ef95a2.273310ae_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: last night's Stilluppsteypa/TV Pow show Date: 02 Nov 2000 13:49:39 -0500 Jesse Kudler wrote: > Helpful? Yes, thanks. That does make it a bit more clear. I think I'd really like to see, even just once, an example like the one Jon cited (the 24 hour Mimeo show) where the screen of the computer was in some way visible - I think that would make things a lot more clear and tactile to me. Nevertheless, I did and do find the music itself quite compelling, and Jon's subsequent statement regarding the notion of all egos and identities being submerged in the collective whole a la AMM was also enlightening. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Kinda OT- Rev. Fred Lane Date: 02 Nov 2000 16:16:49 EST In a message dated 11/2/00 1:48:43 PM, Dgasque@aol.com writes: << Just got my CD copies of both Rev. Fred Lane albums on Shimmy Disc. I remember reading somewhere the true identities of the musicians behind these...ahem...classics. I'm pretty sure Davy/LaDonna Smith and Chadborne being in the list. Can somebody provide a complete list? >> can't seem to find personnel for those records here, but check out this site: http://homepages.enterprise.net/scruss/fredlane/ some English label (Alcohol, maybe?) is supposedly working on reissuing the first disc. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: klezmonauts Date: 03 Nov 2000 12:30:34 +1100 This band has just released a Xmas klezmer cd, sounds kind of like the Shirim Klezmer Orchestra (the guys from Naftule's Dream before they were Naftule's Dream) doing Xmas carols. Anyone know who's in the band? I wouldn't be surprised if maybe some of the members from Naftule's Dream are on this cd... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain Subject: Re: Bowie goes ... Date: 02 Nov 2000 22:07:43 -0800 on 11/1/00 6:37 AM, Joseph Zitt at jzitt@metatronpress.com wrote: > Bowie toured as Iggy Pop's pianist in the '70s. > As did Blue Gene Tyranny at one point. --Mike (Who can't recommend Duckworth's _Talking Music_ highly enough) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mathieu Belanger Subject: Moondoc/Parker in Montreal Date: 02 Nov 2000 23:08:13 -0500 Hello, Did anybody attended the Jameel Moondoc/William Parker show yesterday at Casa del Popolo? If so, I am curious to know what you think of it. Personally, I think it was great, but far from being wonderful. I think they could communicate more (musically I mean). The first 30 minutes of the first set were almost like an alto sax playing over a rythm section... On the other hand, when they would interact more like at the end of the 55 minutes piece that composed most of the first set, it was really good. Maybe it is a coincidence, but it was often when Mr. Parker was using his bow. Some gorgeous playing with the bow by the way... Any other opinions? Mathieu P.S. Sorry for the Montreal-related topic... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Orangejazz@aol.com Subject: Stilluppsteypa/TV Pow Date: 02 Nov 2000 23:30:12 EST Hey, I just saw TV Pow and Stilluppstepya in Pittsburgh. I couldn't stay for their entire collaboration, it seemed to be getting pretty harsh when I left. I had the exact opposite assertions from Jon, however. I found TV Pow to be less predictable than Stilluppstepya. TV Pow definitely had a very organic sound going, but their was a lot of variation and a lot of sharp explosions at different points. Stilluppstepya just seemed to keep building to climaxes and stopping, and building and stoping, etc. I found the Stilluppstepya set to be much less intriguing. However, I definitely reccomend TV Pow to any of the people really concerned with the whole Musique Concrete thread or anyone who enjoys modern electronic music. They were really fantastic. I wouldn't shut up the entire car trip home about their set. from, mattt http://www.mp3.com/mattwellins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Zorn List Digest V3 #150 Date: 03 Nov 2000 06:50:16 +0100 > I think you are a little harsh on IRCAM. Of course Boulez is an asshole, but, > fortunately, IRCAM is not just Boulez. They develop interesting tools to work Even if Boulez IS an asshole, that's not that evident. His conducting abilities are just stunning - just listen to his versions of Varese, for example. And let's not forget that he's one of the few conductors who performs contemporary music. Without him we would have a way less modern pieces on cds or vinyl. As for his own works, JZ said that 'matreau sans maitre' is one of the best music pieces ever. Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: fred lane Date: 03 Nov 2000 07:00:47 GMT >Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 13:47:10 EST >From: Dgasque@aol.com >Subject: Kinda OT- Rev. Fred Lane >Just got my CD copies of both Rev. Fred Lane albums on Shimmy Disc. I >remember reading somewhere the true identities of the musicians behind >these...ahem...classics. I'm pretty sure Davy/LaDonna Smith and >Chadborne >being in the list. Can somebody provide a complete list? wow, what a weird coincedence. i have just gotten these too. "...ahem...classics..." is a good way to put it. ithere is a new chadbourne list on egroups.com (don't have the link, sorry) and someone just mentioned Fred Lane there, too. Someone who recently played with Lane is on there. What's strange is that when I was listening to that this morning, I was thinking, "I swear I've heard this voice somewhere" but I don't know where. I can try to find that link for the Chadbourne list. WY _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: re: last night's stillupsteypa / tv pow Date: 03 Nov 2000 01:41:52 -0600 (CST) jon abbey writes: > the last point is more of a personal one. I find that one difference between > this new wave of electroacoustic improv and much recent experimental acoustic > improv, is that which musicians are producing which sounds is much less > important than the soundscape taken as a whole, and that some of the most > successful combinations are the ones in which individual identity is almost > entirely submerged i definitely agree with jon on this one, although the feeling is also personal. some of the best moments i've ever had making music is when i myself can't figure out if i'm making the noise i think i'm making, despite having a pretty good idea of what i think is supposed to be coming out of my amp (the instrument in this case is tabletop guitar). evrything blends so perfectly that the musicians themselves can't associate sounds with sources - the perfect acousmatic experience. i've also noticed that many of the musicians i've played with who practice 'free improv' of this sort don't listen closely enough to reach this plateau. that is, it really requires a group effort. but when you hit it, the rumbling of a truck passing by, or the sipping of water, becomes as much a part of the music as any other sound in the room. the feeling tends to stick with you for a while after the event.... i also agree that Particles and Smears on erstwhile captures that feeling, at least to me. the disc rewards very attentive listening. whit np - the sound of my dissertation not being written (sort of like the sound of one hand clapping, but different) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: last night's stillupsteypa / tv pow Date: 03 Nov 2000 11:16:20 +0100 Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 8:41 AM > i definitely agree with jon on this one, although the feeling is also > personal. some of the best moments i've ever had making music is when i > myself can't figure out if i'm making the noise i think i'm making, > despite having a pretty good idea of what i think is supposed to be coming > out of my amp (the instrument in this case is tabletop guitar). Yes, that's a kind of experience that is realy hard to forget. One can read about troubles with personal identity, ego etc, but when one plays some intense music everything really disappears. We're left with the noise we make. That's BTW one of the reasons i doubt about the potenetial of music made by just one man. BTW isn't this experience quite similiar to playing in an orchestra? > plateau. that is, it really requires a group effort. but when you hit > it, the rumbling of a truck passing by, or the sipping of water, becomes > as much a part of the music as any other sound in the room. the feeling > tends to stick with you for a while after the event.... Very well said. Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Jaap Blonk in Sweden (fairly off-topic) Date: 03 Nov 2000 11:42:38 GMT Hello, I'm desperately searching for more information about the Jaap Blonk solo performance in Malmö, Sweden next Saturday (november 11). What is the adress of the place, and when does it begin? ANY help would be greatly appreciated! THANKS! ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "dekater" Subject: Re: Jaap Blonk in Sweden (fairly off-topic) Date: 03 Nov 2000 14:06:25 +0100 -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Arthur Gadney Aan: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Datum: vrijdag 3 november 2000 12:46 Onderwerp: Jaap Blonk in Sweden (fairly off-topic) >Hello, > >I'm desperately searching for more information about the Jaap Blonk solo >performance in Malmö, Sweden next Saturday (november 11). >What is the adress of the place, and when does it begin? > >ANY help would be greatly appreciated! > >THANKS! >ARTHUR_G Since any help will be appreciated, maybe mailing to Jaap could help you out: jablonk@planet.nl Jan Luyben > > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. > > >- > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CuneiWay@aol.com Subject: Cyd Charise Date: 03 Nov 2000 08:37:21 EST Davey Williams told me that he was Cyd Charise [bass clarinet]. I'm sure LaDonna is on it, but I don't know her "nom-de-plume". WHAT a website. More info on Fred than I could've imagined... Steve F. >Just got my CD copies of both Rev. Fred Lane albums on Shimmy Disc. I >remember reading somewhere the true identities of the musicians behind >these...ahem...classics. I'm pretty sure Davy/LaDonna Smith and Chadborne >being in the list. Can somebody provide a complete list? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: klezmonauts Date: 03 Nov 2000 09:26:52 -0500 On Fri, Nov 03, 2000 at 12:30:34PM +1100, Julian wrote: > This band has just released a Xmas klezmer cd, sounds kind of like the > Shirim Klezmer Orchestra (the guys from Naftule's Dream before they were > Naftule's Dream) doing Xmas carols. Anyone know who's in the band? I > wouldn't be surprised if maybe some of the members from Naftule's Dream are > on this cd... Xmas klezmer?! Oy, gevalt. Next they'll be putting lard in the matzo balls :-~ -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: drummerz Date: 03 Nov 2000 11:02:11 -0500 in this thread i while back, i hope and trust tony oxley was mentioned. sleepless and newly indoctrinated, kg np: d.d.jackson peace-song - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Schnee (was Re: last night's Stilluppsteypa/TV Pow show) Date: 03 Nov 2000 12:24:08 EST I'm answering a private question publicly, sorry for any confusion... <<"in einem jahr mit 13 monden" is the name of a fassbinder movie (released in the us as "in a year of 13 moons). does the track relate in any way to the movie?>> yes, all four tracks on Schnee are named after and inspired by some of the musicians' favorite movies, the aforementioned Fassbinder movie, Godard's Passion, Chris Marker's Sans Soleil (a great movie!), and Barbara Albert's Nordrand, which is a recent Austrian film. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M. pathos" Subject: little David no-soul Date: 03 Nov 2000 17:54:41 GMT Sure, Bowie can play piano. But he can never play jazz - he has no soul. Not once in his career has he invested any of HIMSELF in his music. Instead, he has treated art like a quirky investment where if you corner the right trends soon enough you reap the disproportionate dividends in money and fame. (I still thought he was good enough to have my version of "Some Are" (from Low) released by Virgin on the internet). By the way, I second the "Talking Music" recommendation. on 11/1/00 6:37 AM, Joseph Zitt at jzitt@metatronpress.com wrote: > Bowie toured as Iggy Pop's pianist in the '70s. > As did Blue Gene Tyranny at one point. --Mike (Who can't recommend Duckworth's _Talking Music_ highly enough) - _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: little David no-soul Date: 03 Nov 2000 12:21:15 -0500 On Fri, Nov 03, 2000 at 05:54:41PM +0000, M. pathos wrote: > > Sure, Bowie can play piano. But he can never play jazz - he has no soul. Not > once in his career has he invested any of HIMSELF in his music. Instead, he > has treated art like a quirky investment where if you corner the right > trends soon enough you reap the disproportionate dividends in money and > fame. Wow, we must be listening to *utterly* different David Bowie records. I doubt that, if he were utterly devoid of soul, Lester Bowie and Joey Baron would have played so well with him. Nor that one can quite so objectively spot what one might call "HIMSELF" in a person's music. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M. pathos" Subject: Re: little David no-soul Date: 03 Nov 2000 18:22:18 GMT Show me a stack of money and I'll show you a shitload of "credible" musicians who'll swarm over it like flies. Bowie can always afford great session men, just as Christina Aguilera can pay off Dr. John to record with her (track(s) yet to be released). Admittedly there is presently no potentiometer for human feeling. Yet surely anyone who's played, or deeply listened, to music senses when more or less of a being's blood and flesh is being transmuted into tones. Joseph Zitt wrote: I doubt that, if he were utterly devoid of soul, Lester Bowie and Joey Baron would have played so well with him. Nor that one can quite so objectively spot what one might call "HIMSELF" in a person's music. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Re: little David no-soul Date: 03 Nov 2000 19:26:23 +0100 M. pathos wrote: > > Show me a stack of money and I'll show you a shitload of "credible" > musicians who'll swarm over it like flies. Bowie can always afford great > session men, just as Christina Aguilera can pay off Dr. John to record not that i want to defend CA, but: it might just as well be that dr. john simply wants to "shift some more units" and is not being paid off. maybe he even paid so she'd let him play on those tracks... patRice np: naked city, naked city nr: gilmore, harry partch - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: little David no-soul Date: 03 Nov 2000 13:15:27 -0500 On Fri, Nov 03, 2000 at 06:22:18PM +0000, M. pathos wrote: > Show me a stack of money and I'll show you a shitload of "credible" > musicians who'll swarm over it like flies. Bowie can always afford great > session men, just as Christina Aguilera can pay off Dr. John to record with > her (track(s) yet to be released). Show me a successful musician and I'll show you a shitload of naysayers who will diss his credibility and musicianship. > Admittedly there is presently no potentiometer for human feeling. Yet surely > anyone who's played, or deeply listened, to music senses when more or less > of a being's blood and flesh is being transmuted into tones. As we hear this music differently, that has been demonstrated not to be the case. (Actually, the only case I could think of of a being's blood and flesh being transmuted into tones would be in the recording of a meatgrinder, or perhaps the death artist portrayed in Bowie's "1/Outside".) -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: little David no-soul Date: 03 Nov 2000 11:29:25 -0800 M. Pathetic (oups, I meant M. pathos, sorry for the typo), On Fri, 03 Nov 2000 18:22:18 GMT "M. pathos" wrote: > > Admittedly there is presently no potentiometer for human feeling. Yet surely ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Don't be so modest. You seem capable of the task. > anyone who's played, or deeply listened, to music senses when more or less ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I guess this anyone is somebody like you (as opposed to the clueless like some of us who think that Bowie is relevant as an artist). > of a being's blood and flesh is being transmuted into tones. We will try hard to reach you on this high level of consciousness. Don't be too disappointed if we don't meet your lofty expectections right away. Give us some time. Thanks, Patrice. PS: BTW, how much would you charge the list to become its official "soul" thermometer? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: little David no-soul Date: 03 Nov 2000 14:12:33 -0500 On Fri, Nov 03, 2000 at 11:29:25AM -0800, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > PS: BTW, how much would you charge the list to become its official "soul" > thermometer? I'm reminded of Eddie Murphy's Saturday Night Live schtick, "James Brown's Hot Tub Party". -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams Subject: Re: little David no-soul Date: 03 Nov 2000 15:42:04 -0800 >Show me a stack of money and I'll show you a shitload of "credible" >musicians who'll swarm over it like flies. Bowie can always afford >great session men, And there are lots of "credible" players who appear on albums for scale or less because they believe in what the artists' doing. And If I'm not mistaken, all of Bowies "experimental" albums have sold poorly in comparison to his more conventional stuff. If thats crass trend-mongering you'd think he'd get the message by now ;-) > >Admittedly there is presently no potentiometer for human feeling. >Yet surely anyone who's played, or deeply listened, to music senses >when more or less of a being's blood and flesh is being transmuted >into tones. If you cant sense the flesh and blood in an album like Heroes.........you must be damn hard to please. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: RE: last night's stillupsteypa / tv pow Date: 03 Nov 2000 14:45:43 -0700 >...when one plays some intense music everything really disappears. We're >left with the noise we make. That's BTW one of the reasons i doubt about >the potenetial of music made by just one man... ...who isn't Stavinsky. (I'm only joking) >BTW isn't this experience quite similiar to playing in an orchestra? Personal identity doesn't seem to contribute to the overall soundscape as readily in orchestral music as in free improv., no? Perhaps some comparison can be made between the MIMEO situation and an Orchestra (hence the "O" is suppose) but it seems to me that small groups of classical musicians allow their personalities to be somewhat consumed in the service of the "composer's intent" and they can decipher the sounds they are making quite clearly. The sound is determined in advance for the orchestra member where as the improvisor must lend his/her personal language and artistic inclination. Just what would happen if your boy Stravinsky had sat down with Bartok to improvise (?)...a mess ? I think I may have just used up my monthly ramble token. Matt Wirzbicki - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Friedrich Kapitzke" Subject: Fw: BerlinJazzfest Date: 04 Nov 2000 00:16:33 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C045F4.7CC20240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 Todays program was quite mixed. Aki Takase with a all women Jazzprojekt(Carrington fr,Jensen = tp,Whitehead tb and others) a little to much brain controlled but at all = a good quality event. Trevor Watts Moire Music Group---for me to much ethno but fine = percussion---Trevor itself seemed to be a bit outside of the group--the = rhythm section had a lot of fun. Mingus Amungus under the lead of bassist Miles Perkins.A quality band = giving a contemporary feel of Mingusism---but too much show in the end = by adding stupid dance acts and a Rap singer---maybee right for San = Francisco --not so much for Berlin audience But all together a pleasent evening. Friedrich ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C045F4.7CC20240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----=20
 
Todays program was quite = mixed.
Aki Takase with a all women = Jazzprojekt(Carrington=20 fr,Jensen tp,Whitehead tb and others) a little to much brain controlled = but at=20 all a good quality event.
 
Trevor Watts Moire Music Group---for me = to much=20 ethno but fine percussion---Trevor itself seemed to be a bit outside of = the=20 group--the rhythm section had a lot of fun.
 
Mingus Amungus  under the lead of = bassist=20 Miles Perkins.A quality band  giving a contemporary feel of = Mingusism---but=20 too much show in the end by adding  stupid dance acts and a Rap=20 singer---maybee right for San Francisco --not so much for Berlin=20 audience
But all together a pleasent = evening.
Friedrich
------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C045F4.7CC20240-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "First Name Last Name" Subject: no zorn content Date: 03 Nov 2000 16:30:30 -0800 hello all: been reading the group for a while now and thoroughly enjoy it and have gotten many leads to great music.... anyways...i live in a vast music wasteland here, but one of the local music stores has a nits double live cd in its used bins. anyone know if this would be worth buying or could possibly charactize it for me? thanks in advance zoyd np anita lane dirty pearl nr the town william faulkner --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Before you buy. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "James Kirchmer" Subject: SEX MASH 2000 in Seattle! Dust off yer gas masks! ;) Date: 03 Nov 2000 17:10:53 -0800 Hi - Just wanted to quickly *confirm* that in mid-December the joint SEX MOB / ZONY MASH tour will be hitting Seattle. They will be playing for TWO NIGHTS at the Rainbow - (722 NE 45th St. - at the intersection of 45th & I-5) - on SATURDAY DEC. 16th and SUNDAY DEC. 17th. Tickets will be $10 each night. (Stay tuned for further details regarding advance tickets) Note: on Saturday Sex Mob will headline...... ......and on Sunday Zony Mash will headline! We are billing this weekend as the "grand reopening" of the Rainbow. Several important changes will be in place by then - such as an improved PA setup, better sight lines/stage setup, a lighted marquee out front, and other surprises..... the times they are a changin', JLK ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ James Kirchmer - The Rainbow Publicist / Asst. Booker manhog@telisphere.com 1008 E. Republican St., #3 Seattle, WA 98102-5018 322-1783 (H) 664-1086 (Fax) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Fela Anikulapo Kuti = "He who emanates greatness, who has control over death, & who cannot be killed by man." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gulickx" Subject: personal recordings Date: 04 Nov 2000 14:08:51 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0189_01C04668.C20C4120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone of you know it=B4s allowed to make personal (MD) recordings = during Zorn (Massada) concerts? I=B4m planning on doin that in Brussels but I make a habbit of it first = asking. I made recordings of ICP, Breuker, Boeren, the voice is the matter e.o. = but always with approval. No, sorry, you can=B4t get a copy without permission! Karel Gulickx ------=_NextPart_000_0189_01C04668.C20C4120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Does anyone of you know it=B4s allowed = to make=20 personal (MD) recordings during Zorn (Massada) concerts?
I=B4m planning on doin that in Brussels = but I make a=20 habbit of it first asking.
I made recordings of ICP, Breuker, = Boeren, the=20 voice is the matter e.o. but always with approval.
 
No, sorry, you can=B4t get a copy = without=20 permission!
 
Karel = Gulickx
------=_NextPart_000_0189_01C04668.C20C4120-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: liner notes for heretic Date: 04 Nov 2000 08:19:17 -0500 My copy of Naked City's Heretic has a sheet of liner notes in Japanese, but not a lot of English text anywhere that looks like it corresponds. Is there a translation of this anywhere, or does anyone know what the liner notes are about? -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Friedrich Kapitzke" Subject: Fw: Berlin Jazzfest Date: 04 Nov 2000 23:00:53 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C046B3.14EF6EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 11:00 PM A short report of todays concerts-- 1. James Carter Electric groove band---an explosive performance with a = turbo on reeds and a beast as drummer(Calvin Weston) doing something = between funk, fusion and eruptive free. The audience was off the seats. 2.Alan Skidmore and Amampondo--He's getting old,no more power in the = horn--bringing 5 South-African Drummers for a ethno-perc-fun = event---boaring. 3.Nils Wogram Quartett--a very talented trombonist with a group of young = but very professional avantgarde musicians--all together a little to = much in love with complicated structures but a high quality performance = and a virtuoso on tb. 4.Helios Quartett feat.Emmanuelle Somer---presenting a CD made in the = Knitting factory short ago---nice but for me too much oriental input. After 7 hours of music I left the place missing Steve Turre and Gary = Bartz The hit of the day was James Carter Friedrich ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C046B3.14EF6EE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Friedrich=20 Kapitzke
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 11:00 PM
Subject: Berlin Jazzfest

A short report of todays = concerts--
1. James Carter Electric groove = band---an explosive=20 performance with a turbo on reeds and a beast as drummer(Calvin Weston) = doing=20 something between funk, fusion and eruptive free.
    The audience was off = the=20 seats.
2.Alan Skidmore  and = Amampondo--He's getting=20 old,no more power in the horn--bringing 5 South-African Drummers for a=20 ethno-perc-fun event---boaring.
3.Nils Wogram Quartett--a very talented = trombonist=20 with a group of young but very professional avantgarde musicians--all = together a=20 little to much in love with complicated structures but a high quality=20 performance and a virtuoso on tb.
4.Helios Quartett feat.Emmanuelle=20 Somer---presenting a CD made in the Knitting factory short = ago---nice  but=20 for me too much oriental input.
 
After 7 hours of music I left the = place =20 missing Steve Turre and Gary Bartz
The hit of the day was James = Carter
 
 
Friedrich
------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C046B3.14EF6EE0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "samuel yrui" Subject: Re: Fw: Berlin Jazzfest Date: 05 Nov 2000 01:00:12 CST Well, Since I so rarely go to good concerts that are worth talking about... i've now been to a couple that are worth mentioning so here's a review... of sorts. 1st concert- Mira And The Microphones. Mira being one of the musicians who played and The Microphones just being one guy. I did sound for this evening, which was very interesting... especially with The Microphones. We did what they called "their first soundcheck all tour." Which was good because we got everything sounding PERFECT. He used the sound we acheived on the guitar track and his voice was beautiful. He played long slow songs and stretched out across the evening. He'd scrape his guitar gently on the instrument mike and produce pretty harmonic landscapes to punctuate small, shy folkish gems that melded with the room. Mira was pretty amazing as well, and sang a solo voice piece with no accompaniment, and she came and sat down with the audience to play on her ukelele. The microphones is usually a studio based multi track experimental west-coast pop type thing. not to generalize. The Microphones and Mira are both released on ... hm... i think it was called "A records". which i think is the record label the Sleater Kinney started out on. Concert #2- Concert #2 featured a nice line up of three... groups. The first was The Naysayer. Anna Padget writes the songs and plays guitar, another girl backing up on drums and harmony vocals. Nice entrancing songs. An excellent warmup to the evening. She had Tara Jane O'neil played guitar and bass on a couple of songs. Tara Jane O'neil was next on the list. Tara steps on stage with a nice hat and a very very nice guitar. She plays solo with herself and a couple effects/delays/sample related stuff. Very nice. She has a violinist sitting behind her, but she doesn't play on the first piece, but instead ducks behind the rather large amps and drum set to make some little drawings. A nice touch. She picks it up on the next piece and they improvise a good 10-15 minutes. Then another guitarist joins her (the guitarist from the upcoming Ida.) She plays a few more things. Then another break. Next up is Ida. Two violins. (Ooops, one might have been a viola.) A guitarist. A keyboardist. One violin player also plays accordion, guitar, electric piano, back up vocals. The other violinist doesn't do anything but violin, but reveals herself to be much more well rounded at her instrument than most people i've met. The guitarist has a high, silky beautiful voice. (male, probably writes the songs) The keyboardist also plays bass, guitar. They play a long set and they play it brilliantly. I think 10 or more songs. THen they play an encore of a song. And then I buy these: The Naysayer-tape Ida/Ten Small Paces-CD Ida/Will You Find Me-CD Tara Jane O'Neil-Peregrine I'm really especially looking forward to Tara Jane O'Neil. She was my personal highlight of all the people mentioned. You folks on this list should check it all out. At least one of the mentioned artists should appeal to some of you. -Samuel, king of music critics (because i'm a musician. and a fuckin' badass.) A short report of todays concerts-- 1. James Carter Electric groove band---an explosive performance with a turbo on reeds and a beast as drummer(Calvin Weston) doing something between funk, fusion and eruptive free. The audience was off the seats. 2.Alan Skidmore and Amampondo--He's getting old,no more power in the horn--bringing 5 South-African Drummers for a ethno-perc-fun event---boaring. 3.Nils Wogram Quartett--a very talented trombonist with a group of young but very professional avantgarde musicians--all together a little to much in love with complicated structures but a high quality performance and a virtuoso on tb. 4.Helios Quartett feat.Emmanuelle Somer---presenting a CD made in the Knitting factory short ago---nice but for me too much oriental input. After 7 hours of music I left the place missing Steve Turre and Gary Bartz The hit of the day was James Carter Friedrich _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" Subject: carlo actis dato west coast tour Date: 05 Nov 2000 10:16:52 +0100 Baritone saxophonist and bass clarinetist Carlo Actis Dato, stalwart of the Italian Instabile Orchestra among other things, will be touring USA in the first 10 days of April 2001 and asked me to find information about possible promoters in the west coast area. informations about Carlo on his site abrax.isiline.it/actisdato/ and on the Instabile site www.ijm.it/instabile thank you for any info Francesco _________________ Francesco Martinelli Lungarno Mediceo 10 56127 PISA ITALY email: fmartinelli@tin.it webpage: http://space.tin.it/musica/upsma/ fax 0039 050 313 75 02 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M. pathos" Date: 05 Nov 2000 10:56:37 GMT test _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "carbif" Subject: zorn/masada concert Date: 05 Nov 2000 14:12:36 +0100 John Zorn with Masada in concert in Palermo (Italy) 11/25/2000 For "festival del novecento". Fabio - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "samuel yrui" Subject: Re: zorn/masada concert Date: 05 Nov 2000 12:53:37 CST you should contact us list members about bootlegs if it's a good concert. (or are we anti bootlegs here? i don't know zorn's or you people's opinion on the matter. sorry if i offended.) -samuel John Zorn with Masada in concert in Palermo (Italy) 11/25/2000 For "festival del novecento". Fabio - _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "samuel yrui" Subject: Ben-OBVIOUS EYE respond to this message Date: 05 Nov 2000 13:08:33 CST Ben, Obvious Eye, respond to this message in private. -samuel _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ObviousEye@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #153 Date: 05 Nov 2000 16:14:11 EST --part1_81.2715937.273727a3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/3/00 6:22:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes: > >Sure, Bowie can play piano. But he can never play jazz - he has no soul. > Not > > "Low" seems to me to be a soul-revealing testimony....very dark and real. i think bowie was (is) a genre-chameleon, but that is art, is it not? look at Zorn, for instance...does he have no soul? ben --part1_81.2715937.273727a3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/3/00 6:22:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes:


>Sure, Bowie can play piano. But he can never play jazz - he has no soul.
Not
>once in his career has he invested any of HIMSELF in his music


"Low" seems to me to be a soul-revealing testimony....very dark and real.
i think bowie was (is) a genre-chameleon, but that is art, is it not?
look at Zorn, for instance...does he have no soul?

ben --part1_81.2715937.273727a3_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sergio luque" Subject: boulez (was: Zorn List Digest V3 #150) Date: 05 Nov 2000 16:36:46 -0600 "Nuno Barreiro" wrote: > Boulez music stinks... it is true that boulez has said an awful lot of bullshit, but that is an old story: even the man himself agrees by now. but all prejudices aside: have you heard _derive_ or _repons_ or _dialogue de l'ombre double_? these later (80's) pieces are, for me, immensely enjoyable. and _repons_ is one of the greatest pieces i've heard: before i heard it i used to think of boulez as a minor composer: and now his ego has trapped me and i reassure myself saying that i like much of his music. regards, ____________________________________________________________ sergio luque sergio@tomate.com.mx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: taylor/oxley Date: 05 Nov 2000 17:49:14 EST not sure why there hasn't been almost any discussion of these shows here yet, but I'll be happy to kick it off. I saw the first set Thursday. it was one long piece, about 70 minutes. the first half hour or so was pure power, loud and fast. my personal interest in this type of music is currently very low, even if the people playing it are among the best in this world at it (as these guys certainly are). the rest of the show was more subdued and textural, and more to my tastes. I was disappointed that Oxley didn't bring any electronics with him, and it seemed (although this could just be faulty memory) that his kit was decidedly larger when he played with Derek Bailey at the Knitting Factory in 1995. over the last 15 minutes, Oxley periodically tried to end the set, but Cecil kept on going, which made me laugh out loud a couple of times, and recalled Derek Bailey's statement "Cecil just doesn't stop", as he walked off stage while Cecil was still going at the end of their Tonic show this past summer. it was certainly nice to see Cecil play with a drummer who was his equal, though, especially since a few years ago he was starting to seem like Sonny Rollins in this regard. it's great to see him playing with other giants over the past couple of years, even if the shows aren't always entirely successful. all in all, I enjoyed the set, but didn't feel that it hit the transcendent levels that Taylor and Bailey did earlier this year. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allan Sutherland Subject: Fujii - Tamura European Tour Date: 06 Nov 2000 08:10:30 +0900 Hi, European subscribers should be delighted to know that the superb pianist, Satoko Fujii and the talented trumpeter Natsuki Tamura will be touring there this month. playing solo, duo and other combinations. If they appear near to you, take this chance to hear some wonderful, imaginative musicianship; beautifully abstract, lyrical, and challenging. Here is the itinerary: Nov.10th Budapest, Hungary$B!!(J Hungarian Radio Concert Hall Judit Balvangos(as), Varga Zsolt(ts), Javorka Adam(viola), Natsuki Tamura(Tp), Satoko Fujii(P)$B!!(J Nov.11th WIEN, Austria$B!!(J ORF$B!&(JRadio Kulturhaus in Yuko Gulda's concert Nov.17th CBSO centre, Berkley Street Birmingham, England piano solo Nov.18th Brewery Arts Centre Kendal, Cumbria, England piano solo Nov.19th The Albert Inn Bristol, England piano + Tp duo Nov.20th Warwick Arts centre Warwickshire, England duo Nov.21st Purcell Room, Royal Festival Hall London, England duo Nov.25th Pianissimo Lausanne, Switzerland piano solo Dec.3rd Berlin Kreazberg Ballhaus Naunyn strasse Berlin, Germany with Anna Barth (dance) Cheers, Allan. **************************************************************** McCoy Tyner, Charlie Parker sessionographies of all known recordings, official and unofficial. Any information heartily appreciated, merci, arigato, graci, thanks. http://www.kyushu-ns.ac.jp/~allan/ And, of course, never forget this place: *The European Thelonious Monk Website*: http://www.maison-orangina.org/assocs/jazz/monk/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: taylor/oxley Date: 05 Nov 2000 18:41:57 -0500 JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > all in all, I enjoyed the set, but didn't feel that it hit the transcendent > levels that Taylor and Bailey did earlier this year. I saw Saturday's first set and, while I'd agree with Jon's statement above (though that concert was incredible enough that it'd be tough to match), last night's had its own stellar moments. This was 75 minute affair. During the first half there were more or less alternating sections of pretty inspired stuff and searching around. Oxley seemed to especially relish some passages, casting a gleeful grin in Cecil's direction on a number of occasions. He had some enormous cowbell-like thing as part of his set which, when scraped with a stick, produced the harrowing brake-screech of an imminent car crash. Somewhere around the 50 minute mark, however, the two locked into a furious, high-pitched battle (including numerous car crashes), the music took off into the ether and remained there for the rest of the set, even when the volume subsided drastically and Taylor was playing some gorgeous, soft tones. Ultimately, a very satisfying set, if not quite up to Taylor/Bailey, which may be the best show I've seen this year. Brian Olewnick NP: Vinko Globokar - Globokar/Berio/Stockhausen/Alsina (DG) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lee, Edgar" Subject: David Watson Date: 06 Nov 2000 11:21:29 +1100 I released a David Watson CD of avant garde bagpipe playing a few years ago on my record label. However, I've never met him or seen him play. Could any of you that have seen David perform in New York please describe what he does on stage either as leader or supporting someone like Ikue Mori. Thanks Edgar - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen drury Subject: Feldman in Boston, Thursday Date: 06 Nov 2000 07:17:13 -0500 The New England Conservatory Callithumpian Consort presents two major late works by Morton Feldman, the master of soft and slow. More than an hour of pianissimo! Bass Clarinet and Percussion with Chris Bush, bass clarinet, and Clay Condon and Brian Vogel, percussion Clarinet and String Quartet with J. Michael Norsworthy, clarinet; Jesse Holstein and Mona Rashad, violins; Michael Fenton, viola; and Jacques Lee Wood, cello Thursday, November 9, at Williams Hall, New England Conservatory, 290 Huntington Ave, Boston, MA 8pm. Free. This concert kicks off a year-long survey of the music of Morton Feldman, creator of one of history's most unique bodies of music. From the brief, indeterminate works in graphic notation of the 1950s, to the late, extremely long meditations on scale and pattern of the '80s, Feldman's music rests almost exclusively at the edge of silence. The performances by guest artists and students at the Conservatory will include the rarely heard Five Pianos and Piece for Four Pianos, the demanding chamber works Piano and String Quartet, Clarinet and String Quartet, and Bass Clarinet and Percussion, and the great works for solo piano For Bunita Marcus and Triadic Memories. Complete schedule available at http://www.stephendrury.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben Axelrad" Subject: Chicago TV Pow show (long, rambling) Date: 06 Nov 2000 11:17:33 CST I attended the Illusion of Safety/TV Pow/Stilluppsteypa show last night in Chicago. Unfortunately I could only stay for the first two sets. The performance was at Deadtech on W Fullerton. Does anyone know what this place is? There were about 35 people at the show, mostly hipsters, none of them looked over 30. Many came in groups and seemed to know each other. I got the impression that most people were there just to be there and not for any interest in the music (but then again I was tired and didn't really feel like I fit in in the crowd, so I could be projecting). The performance space was just a large, unfurnished room in an old building. The set started off with 45 min by Illusion of Safety. It was mostly loud and harsh. The performer liked to layer short loops of sound. It would have been nice for 15 min, but I was soon bored. Before he started playing he asked the crowd that we not talk because he would be doing some subtle stuff. This subtle stuff was rattling metal objects in a bowl and throwing pebbles, etc. on the floor over a soft electronic hum/drone. There was maybe a combined total of 3 min of 'subtle' work. He would build tension mainly by adding more and more layers and/or volume and then switch either to silence or to a different loop/set of loops. Once or twice it was very effective. TV Pow performed a short (approx 30 min) set next. I thought their set was excellent. I don't really know how to describe it, but it worked so well at points that even noise in the audience (the pigeons flapping their wings against the pipes outside, a girl dropping change on the floor, the door to the bathroom opening and closing) seemed to be part of the music. They were pretty amusing to watch in that the beardless guy and the redhead kept conferring with each other and looking at each other's screens, while the other guy (thick beard) kept to himself until the end. No one knew when the set was over, so there was a minute of silence, which was finally disturbed by (beardless') laptop beeping when shutting down. I thought (beardless) seemed kind of pissed. I left before the other sets (it was already 11:45pm and I wanted to be functional today at work). One last note: I thought the atmosphere was very cold. No one seemed really moved by the music, or at least not visibly. I felt like I was in a room of catatonics. Is this true of other electronic/laptop performances? (I still have the feeling that I was an outsider in some art 'scene'. (Paranoia? Social anxiety?)) Ben soulfrieda@hotmail.com baxelrad@dc.com _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Chicago TV Pow show (long, rambling) Date: 06 Nov 2000 12:32:24 EST In a message dated 11/6/00 12:19:53 PM, soulfrieda@hotmail.com writes: << They were pretty amusing to watch in that the beardless guy and the redhead kept conferring with each other and looking at each other's screens, while the other guy (thick beard) kept to himself until the end. No one knew when the set was over, so there was a minute of silence, which was finally disturbed by (beardless') laptop beeping when shutting down. I thought (beardless) seemed kind of pissed. >> if anyone cares, beardless is Brent Gutzeit, redhead is Michael Hartman, and thick beard is Todd Carter. <> I'd guess this was a function of the venue. I certainly wouldn't group laptop crowds all together. the people who came to see Carl Stone at Roulette a few weeks ago seemed quite different from the crowd for the Tonic TV Pow/Stilluppsteypa show. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Drummers [reprise] Date: 06 Nov 2000 09:46:16 -0800 After seeing Han Bennink last week, I feared seeing Jim Black with Eskelin/Parkins last night would prove anti-climactic. Unfounded fear. What an incredible artist. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Drummers [reprise] Date: 06 Nov 2000 09:51:37 -0800 On Mon, 6 Nov 2000 09:46:16 -0800 "s~Z" wrote: > > After seeing Han Bennink last week, I feared seeing Jim Black with > Eskelin/Parkins last night would prove anti-climactic. > > Unfounded fear. > > What an incredible artist. Same comment. He is getting better and better and since he started high... After the show I told him that he might have found the recipee for never being boring :-). The trio was amazing going never where you expected them to, always keeping the audience on the guard. They even made a cover of a Mahavishnu song that was almost as big as the original! Another great moment (among many) was Andrea's intro to Coltrane's India. Good attendance to the show also, which is reassuring. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dan hill Subject: Re: Drummers [reprise] Date: 06 Nov 2000 18:11:22 +0000 > > After seeing Han Bennink last week, I feared seeing Jim Black with >> Eskelin/Parkins last night would prove anti-climactic. >> >> Unfounded fear. >> >> What an incredible artist. > >Same comment. He is getting better and better and since he started >high... After the show I told him that he might have found the >recipee for never being boring :-). i found jim black utterly astonishing too. i saw him with dave douglas' tiny bell trio here in london last month, and though i've seen many great drummers this year for some reason (billy kilson with dave holland's quintet, lombardo with zorn, marc ribot's cubanos postizos, susie ibarra with derek bailey, even winant with the de sade quartet), jim black was the pick of the bunch ... a real showstealer, even with someone as irrepressible as dave douglas ... for me, the only recent "percussive moments" as purely enjoyable appear on burnt friedman's records imho. but black/eskelin/parkins playing mahavishnu and coltrane covers sounds really interesting! btw, anybody heard the recent vandermark/drake/mcbride record: "spaceways incorporated: thirteen cosmic standards by sun ra & funkadelic" (atavistic)? cheers, dan. -- ---+ dan hill [state51] ---+ new reviews on motion [6.11.2000]: < john cage | cornelius cardew | merzbow | lewis taylor | albert ayler | jim black | david bowie | nobody | keith tippett | susumu yokota | cristian vogel > http://motion.state51.co.uk/ +--- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Chicago TV Pow show (long, rambling) Date: 06 Nov 2000 12:36:53 -0500 On Mon, Nov 06, 2000 at 12:32:24PM -0500, JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > < cold. No one seemed really moved by the music, or at least not visibly. I > felt like I was in a room of catatonics. Is this true of other > electronic/laptop performances? (I still have the feeling that I was an > outsider in some art 'scene'. (Paranoia? Social anxiety?))>> > > I'd guess this was a function of the venue. I certainly wouldn't group laptop > crowds all together. the people who came to see Carl Stone at Roulette a few > weeks ago seemed quite different from the crowd for the Tonic TV > Pow/Stilluppsteypa show. The crowd and performance at MOCA-DC struck me as quite warm and engaged. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: Drummers [reprise] Date: 06 Nov 2000 10:31:48 -0800 but black/eskelin/parkins playing mahavishnu and coltrane covers sounds really interesting! They covered 'The Dance of Maya' from _Inner Mounting Flame_. In LA they also covered 'We See' by Monk. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: klezmonauts Date: 06 Nov 2000 14:02:01 -0500 (EST) Considering that three of the most famous Christmas songs, if not the most famous ones, were written by Jews: "White Christmas", "The Christmas Song" ("chestnuts roasting on an open fire) and "Rudolph, The Red Nosed Reindeer", I guess Gentiles need as much musical help as they can with their holidays. (Don't forget, though, that tenor saxophonist Booker Ervin did a great version of "Beir Meir Bist Du Shein" [sp] on his Heavy! album). ken Waxman --- Joseph Zitt wrote: > On Fri, Nov 03, 2000 at 12:30:34PM +1100, Julian > wrote: This band has just released a Xmas klezmer cd, > sounds kind of like the Shirim Klezmer Orchestra (the guys from Naftule's Dream before they were Naftule's Dream) doing Xmas carols > Xmas klezmer?! Oy, gevalt. > Next they'll be putting lard in the matzo balls :-~ > . > Discussion List | > > > - > > . > _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben Axelrad" Subject: Re: klezmonauts Date: 06 Nov 2000 13:35:19 CST Irving Berlin also wrote an Easter song, right? I think I've posted this before, but Philip Roth in one of his books jokingly (but not without pride and some malice) proclaims that the Jews had gotten their revenge by 'schlockifying' the major Christian holidays. Ben >Considering that three of the most famous Christmas >songs, if not the most famous ones, were written by >Jews: > >"White Christmas", "The Christmas Song" ("chestnuts >roasting on an open fire) and "Rudolph, The Red Nosed >Reindeer", I guess Gentiles need as much musical help >as they can with their holidays. > >(Don't forget, though, that tenor saxophonist Booker >Ervin did a great version of "Beir Meir Bist Du Shein" >[sp] on his Heavy! album). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: klezmonauts Date: 06 Nov 2000 15:14:28 -0500 Ben Axelrad wrote: > Irving Berlin also wrote an Easter song, right? You're no doubt thinking of the title song from his musical 'Easter Parade' (the one that goes "In your Easter bonnet / With all the frills upon it"...), right? Or the tune "Happy Easter" from the same show? The plot of the show didn't really have that much to do with Easter at all, but the music, like so much of Berlin's stuff, proved adaptable. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eisenbeil@aol.com Subject: Forward Energy Concert Date: 06 Nov 2000 15:40:22 EST JIM RYAN'S, FORWARD ENERGY: NEW YORK EDITION Jim Ryan (reeds/poetry), J. D. Parren (ts, flutes), Dave Sewelson (bs), Bruce Eisenbeil (gtr), Jaribu Shahid (b), Andrew Barker (d) 'Forward Energy' makes good on its name by sustaining a compelling momentum while tearing through the boundries commonly constraining mainstream jazz ensembles." Derk Richardson, East Bay Express Tomorrow, Tuesday, November 7 @ 10pm The Pink Pony is located at 176 Ludlow St. New York City's East Village. The telephone number is 212-253-1922 and convenient public transportation is available : F train to second Ave or the J, M, Z to Essex. Forward Energy begins at 10pm. Tom Abbs band plays at 9pm. There is a suggested $4 cover. Since the mid-90s Jim Ryan has been living in Oakland, California and working with his group Forward Energy. He is deeply involved in the Bay area improv scene, at all levels. Besides leading his own band, he is involved with booking several venues and publishing a zine, 'OUTSIDE', devoted to the music. Last summer he was involved in bringing Alan Silva to the bay area, and performed with him in the concert held at the Luggage Store Gallery in San Francisco. He has two CDs out:"Forward Energy atThe Yellow Room," and "Triptych". Jim Ryan was born in St. Paul, Minnesota and graduated from the University of Minnesota in philosphy. He began listening to bebop at about age 15 and took up the trombone but was forced to abandon it about a year later when his parents sent him to work in an electrode factory in North Carolina. Nearing his mid-30's and living in Paris, France he picked up the flute in about '68 and shortly thereafter acquired a c-melody sax. In the early 70's he participated in a year-long workshop organized and led by Steve Lacy. Jim formed the "Free Music Formation" about this time, and played in Paris and other European cities. He returned to the States in 1975 and settled in Washington D.C. where he formed the Art Performance Group in 1979. Throughout October and November Jim Ryan is on tour and he comes to NYC on the heels of some high profile gigs in Chicago. Come on out to hear and support an experienced improvisor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: taylor/oxley Date: 06 Nov 2000 15:51:32 -0500 JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > I saw the first set Thursday. it was one long piece, about 70 minutes. the > first half hour or so was pure power, loud and fast. I found myself paying almost total attention to Oxley for this reason. I knew what Cecil was doing and how he was doing it - there were no real surprises in this stretch. I'll say that the energy was thrilling, though, lest I run the risk of seeming blase about a Taylor gig (I hope that never happens). > the rest of the show was more subdued and textural, and more to my tastes. And Taylor, admidst the gestures and flourishes that comprise part of every "piece" he plays nowadays (you know the licks I mean), played bits every now and then that made me (and the journalist seated next to me) laugh out loud - pointed and deliberate little stride or ragtimey licks, fleeting but pretty damn comical in context if you caught 'em. I love it when he surprises me like that. > and it > seemed (although this could just be faulty memory) that his kit was decidedly > larger when he played with Derek Bailey at the Knitting Factory in 1995. I'd agree with this. The traycard photo of Derek and Tony in the 'Soho Suites' set dates from '97 and the kit Oxley's playing looks very much like the one from this run, but I, too, seem to remember the kit in '95 being more of a sprawl. (But I wouldn't want to meet up with the mad cow from which he nicked that colossal cowbell.) > over > the last 15 minutes, Oxley periodically tried to end the set, but Cecil kept > on going, which made me laugh out loud a couple of times I didn't catch this nearly as readily, but I told Jon at the time that this would have been the opposite of what I noticed at the Taylor and Roach show last summer, when Cecil kept trying to feed Max conclusions and Max just kept pounding. But there have been times in the past where I also noted Taylor's propensity to keep playing past the point of logical conclusion - this just wasn't one of those times for me - it felt just about right. Cecil being the "composer" that he is, I've often doubted that any of his performances ever end by consent... more like when HE says it's over. Derek's way of dealing with this was part of Derek's cantankerousness and refusal to bow to the "composer's" will. The one exception to this is the one I noted above regarding R- sometimes I was surprised that Cecil managed not to just get up and walk away while Max bashed on. Perhaps a mixture of ego and respect kept him going gamely onward then. Or maybe I'm just wrong. > it was > certainly nice to see Cecil play with a drummer who was his equal, though Agreed wholeheartedly. This show, along with the recent appearances with Elvin Jones (yes, really) and a not-so-long-ago quartet gig with Paul Lovens (where unfortunately the booming acoustics led to Lovens frequently being drowned out by Taylor), really show Cecil off at his best. This show was being professionally recorded. So was the abovementioned quartet gig with Lovens. So, for that matter, was the incredible evening at the Cooler a few years ago with his working trio (Duval, Krall) plus Thurston Moore and Tom Surgal. Who's GOT all these fucking tapes, and why is it taking so long to get them released? Why does Taylor's recorded output have to remain so far behind the artist's current activities? Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ethan Subject: Re: Chicago TV Pow show (long, rambling) Date: 06 Nov 2000 16:49:40 -0500 (EST) I was one of the catatonic people in attendance - I fell asleep during TV Pow's set and woke up some for Stilluppsteypa. it was actually pretty physically cold by the end, as someone had opened a window. there's more info about the space at . ethan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Eskelin/Parkins/Black and Hatology Date: 07 Nov 2000 12:19:06 +1100 While we're kind of on the subject... I came across a handful of the trio's cds on Hat Hut (Hatology). I was tempted to buy them due to the great lineup but the little I've heard (from the Songlines cd mainly) was not really my thing (I don't really remember it now, but the impression I have is long, rambling improv with little emphasis on melody). Anyway, I'm sure at least one of these discs has something for me, which one or two would people recommend? (and why?) They had quite a bit of stuff on Hatology actually, so if there's anything else that anyone could highly recommend, that would be great also... Thanks, Julian. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: new Penguin Guide crowns Date: 06 Nov 2000 22:48:52 EST well, the new edition of the Penguin Guide is out in England (US edition coming in March). my copy is still en route from Amazon UK, but in the meantime, there's a list of the handful of records they deem worthy of meriting five stars at: www.crazyjazz.co.uk/Main/penguincrowns.htm a quick browse through, and I don't think there are many new ones, but a few I see are: Arthur Blythe-Lenox Avenue Breakdown Tony Oxley-The Baptised Traveller Howard Riley-The Day will Come (anyone heard this and Synopsis? comparisons?) Horace Tapscott-The Dark Tree, volumes 1 and 2 Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: new Penguin Guide crowns Date: 06 Nov 2000 23:14:39 EST JonAbbey2@aol.com writes: > well, the new edition of the Penguin Guide is out in England (US edition > coming in March). given the time lapse, does that mean the U.S. version will be even more up-to-date? my dog-eared 4th ed. is in rough shape, so i'm looking forward to the new version. a lot of great albums have been released/reissued since the 1998 book went to press, so i'm anxious to see the new material. > there's a list of the handful of records they deem worthy of > meriting five stars at: we got into a discussion about this over on the Miles list, so just to clarify: unless they've changed their ratings system, their scale is up to four stars. The authors give a crown for albums that "we feel a special ambition or affection for: a purely personal choice....It is by no means something of the order of an 'All-Time Top 100,' or whatever..." (4th ed.) jeff caltabiano n.p. sam rivers' rivbea all-star orchestra: inspiration (1999) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: new Penguin Guide crowns Date: 06 Nov 2000 23:25:30 EST In a message dated 11/6/00 11:15:43 PM, Jeffcalt@aol.com writes: << given the time lapse, does that mean the U.S. version will be even more up-to-date? >> nope, same exact book. if you're especially excited, it's probably worth ordering from the UK now, it's not too much more expensive, I don't think. <> point taken. as someone said on rec.music.bluenote, "the crowned records are a combination of the predictable and the arbitrary". Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Toby Dodds" Subject: American Bandstand Date: 06 Nov 2000 22:13:47 -0800 Here's a little newsflash. Tomorrow/today (Tuesday) Wayne Horvitz & Zony Mash are playing live on the radio. It's at 2:30 PST on KUOW 94.9 FM in Seattle. They're playing an acoustic set of material from the release American Bandstand. You can listen in online at http://www.kuow.org/. Check it out! :-Toby - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: Eskelin/Parkins/Black and Hatology Date: 07 Nov 2000 14:16:28 +0100 Julian, the Songlines CD of the Eskelin/Parkins/Black trio "Jazz Thrash" is in fact quite different from their HatOlogy releases. The project was new and apparently the focus was more a work on the band's sounds and textures than it is now. The thematic material had less importance than in their most recent releases (that doesn't mean it was weak, listen to 40 West, for instance), so it's true that the overall record may sound less melodic (but yet damn good anyway). If the work on textures and overall sound is still important in the Hatology releases, the greater role given to the thematic material (with occasionnal covers) and to the band dynamics (thank Jim Black) add a lot to the band and finally make these album easier to catch. So, I think you couldn't go wrong with any of the trio's CDs. My recommandations would be anyway: 1- Five other pieces (+2). Only covers (Mahavishnu, Tristano, Coltrane, Haden....) 2- Kulak 29-30. Including a beautiful rendition of Rahasan's "The Inflated tear" 3- One Great Day ..... 4: Ramifications. Maybe their weakest album. Includes Joe Daley (tba) and Erik Friedlander (cello) Regarding the HatOlogy catalogue, it is undoubtfully one of the best labels for modern/free jazz and impro. I don't know what your musical background is, nor your musical tastes, but I could hardly live without my copies of (I only include here recent -available- releases): - Joe Maneri (Coming down the mountain; Tenderly) - Mat Maneri (So What; Acceptance) - Myra Melford/Han Bennink (Eleven Ghosts) -beautiful, and explosive- - Guillermo Gregorio (Red Cube(d); Ellipsis) -in the tradition of J. Giuffre- - Joe McPhee (As serious as your life) - Clusone 3 (Rara Avis) -very accessible- - ICP Orchestra (Jubilee Varia) - Horace Tapscott (the dark tree) - Dave Douglas (constellations) - Simon Nabatov (sneak preview) - Matthew Shipp (Strata, Gravitational systems, Thesis) - and the Eskelin/Parkins/Black trio, of course... But that's only me... All the best, Pascal. At 12:19 07/11/00 +1100, you wrote: >While we're kind of on the subject... I came across a handful of the trio's >cds on Hat Hut (Hatology). I was tempted to buy them due to the great lineup >but the little I've heard (from the Songlines cd mainly) was not really my >thing (I don't really remember it now, but the impression I have is long, >rambling improv with little emphasis on melody). Anyway, I'm sure at least >one of these discs has something for me, which one or two would people >recommend? (and why?) They had quite a bit of stuff on Hatology actually, so >if there's anything else that anyone could highly recommend, that would be >great also... > >Thanks, >Julian. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: Drummers [reprise] Date: 07 Nov 2000 15:45:28 GMT >i found jim black utterly astonishing too. i saw him with dave >douglas' tiny bell trio here in london last month, and though i've >seen many great drummers this year for some reason (billy kilson with I once saw Jim Black play with the Tiny Bells Trio also, and found him good but not nearly as amazing as many people say he is. It seemed he was holding back a bit too much for my taste. Does he play in anything rock or harder? At one part of his solo he played a short *really* powerfull beat, almost punk. I'd like to hear him do more of that. Any recommendations? ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: bowie Date: 07 Nov 2000 10:58:22 -0500 mpathos implored: Sure, Bowie can play piano. But he can never play jazz - he has no soul. Not once in his career has he invested any of HIMSELF in his music. Instead, he has treated art like a quirky investment where if you corner the right trends soon enough you reap the disproportionate dividends in money and fame. ..and then sold stock in himself, easily one-upping robert johnson's legendary deal-making. in other words, you can take the artist out of the london school of economics, but you can't take the london school of economics out of the artist. kg, who can enjoy david bowie by taking it for what it's worth, but who is currently listening to the far more interesting 'they are we are' by misha feigin, craig hultgren and ladonna smith. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: Drummers [reprise] Date: 07 Nov 2000 17:05:22 +0100 I don't know everything Jim Black did, but he does some (occasional) very wild stuff on Tim Berne's Bloodcount "Unwound" (the 2nd CD of the 3 CD set is particularly demonstrative of that, tracks 1 and 3). He's also wilder with Ellery Eskelin than with Douglas. Another side of him I recently discovered is his very powerful/rockish playing on "Sovlanut" by Jamie Saft (Tzadik), but it's much more Drum n' bass-ish than punk. I haven't heard Alasnoaxis yet. My 2 cents. Pascal. At 15:45 07/11/00 GMT, Arthur Gadney wrote: [...] >I once saw Jim Black play with the Tiny Bells Trio [...] >Does he play in anything rock or harder? At one part of his solo he played a >short *really* powerfull beat, almost punk. I'd like to hear him do more of >that. Any recommendations? > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dan hill Subject: Re: Drummers [reprise] - jim black Date: 07 Nov 2000 16:31:21 +0000 >I once saw Jim Black play with the Tiny Bells Trio also, and found >him good but not nearly as amazing as many people say he is. It >seemed he was holding back a bit too much for my taste. > >Does he play in anything rock or harder? At one part of his solo he >played a short *really* powerfull beat, almost punk. I'd like to >hear him do more of that. Any recommendations? i don't know of any other releases with him playing in this vein, although i would add that when i saw him with tiny bell trio, in no way did he hold back. he was fairly full-on for the whole gig, sprawling all over his kit like a drunk baby, picking stuff up and throwing them around , holding rattles, shakers, and bells in his teeth whilst playing with (almost) all other appendages ... there was some incredibly fierce near-jungle funk patterns at one point (a very electric miles moment in general, actually) which were jaw-dropping ... he didn't hold back much as far as i'm concerned ... but, upon hearing the latest tiny bell trio album, i have to say it didn't capture the intensity of the live performance (not unusual i know) ... btw, peter marsh has written an excellent review of jim black's latest for winter and winter, if you're interested in further opinion (and soundclips): http://motion.state51.co.uk/reviews/727.html cheers, dan. -- ---+ dan hill [state51] ---+ new reviews on motion [7.11.2000]: < john cage | cornelius cardew | merzbow | lewis taylor | albert ayler | jim black | david bowie | nobody | keith tippett | susumu yokota | cristian vogel > http://motion.state51.co.uk/ +--- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Fred Frith mailing list Date: 07 Nov 2000 16:38:39 GMT Are any of you people alo on the Fred Frith mailing list? It seems totally dead! I can't post or do anything. Anybody know what's up? ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: Drummers [reprise] - jim black Date: 07 Nov 2000 09:06:52 -0800 >>>jaw-dropping ... he didn't hold back much as far as i'm concerned ...<<< And his sense of timing....his ability to turn on a dime.....his eyeball to eyeball intuitively passionate interplay with Eskelin and Parkins.....his humor......dynamic range......the most enjoyable ensemble drumming I've heard since seeing Baron with Frisell's quartet many years ago...... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: RE: jim black's power drumming on recording Date: 07 Nov 2000 13:39:55 -0700 >Does he play in anything rock or harder? At one part of his solo he >played a short *really* powerfull beat, almost punk. I'd like to >hear him do more of that. Any recommendations? I'm not sure quite why but Ned Rothenberg's Double band CD comes to mind...i can't remember the label. It seems to me that the very first track on that album is pretty gritty but I haven't heard it in years. (billy martin is the other drummer). Personally i think his drumming is pretty hard at many points in tim Berne's screwgun Bloodcount material (www.screwgunrecords.com I think). The "unwound" set especially -- FWIW "loose ends" is one of my favorite of the harder tracks on this set exemplifying this type of stuff. If anyone has any other recommendations of gritty/noisy/jazz influenced stuff with a definite rock tinge I'd be curious to hear what they are. (kind of like a wine description isn't it) there's a pretty raunchy guitar solo (by Fennesz i think) on the first Orchester 33 1/3 disc which I would also perhaps consider similar.... the track has a really prominant break beat and quite an attitude. Matt Wirzbicki - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rob, the Belgian guy" Subject: tWisT Date: 07 Nov 2000 21:55:16 +0100 Since we're talking 'bout Jim Black. I really like Carlos Bica's "Twist" with Jim Black and Frank Möbus on guitar. Carlos plays double bass (what's the difference between contrabass/double bass/upright bass?). Anyone else got this one? I think it's hard to find in the US? Greetings, Rob@llaert.NU ______________ www.rob.allaert.com "The goal is to bring the same intensity to listening as the performer to playing." np: carlos bica & azul: twist ne: milk chocolate digestives - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rob, the Belgian guy" Subject: New Variations ? Date: 07 Nov 2000 22:01:36 +0100 Zorn-agains, Uri Caine's Goldberg Variations, ok, Bach's compositions. Are all the songs based on Bach? Even the one called "Vivaldi" and "Nobody knows the trouble I've seen"? I'm confused. Help me out ;) Greetings, Rob@llaert.NU ________________ www.rob.allaert.com "The goal is to bring the same intensity to listening as the performer to playing." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: Fred Frith mailing list Date: 07 Nov 2000 16:11:49 -0500 At 04:38 PM 11/7/00 GMT, Arthur Gadney wrote: >Are any of you people alo on the Fred Frith mailing list? It seems totally >dead! I can't post or do anything. Anybody know what's up? They've been having a lot of spam problems, and one of the suggestions was to configure the list so that only subscribers could post to it. Although I don't *know* anything, I suspect that they're trying to get something worked out to keep the spam away. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Benton Subject: Jim Black is a Rock Star Date: 07 Nov 2000 15:44:12 -0600 (CST) Arthur was asking... > Does he play in anything rock or harder? At one part of his solo he > played a short *really* powerfull beat, almost punk. I'd like to hear > him do more of that. Any recommendations? Check out Alasnoaxis, Jim's freshly released debut recording as a leader on Winter&Winter. The disc is all over the place, genre-wise, but there are some portions that rock as hard as anything I'd care to listen to (though Steve "Morbid Cannibal Angel Corpse" Smith might say differently of course). As visions of a metal band of downtown all-stars dance through my head... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daryl Loomis" Subject: Re: New Variations ? Date: 07 Nov 2000 13:50:18 -0800 From what I can tell, the numbered variations are fairly direct arrangement= s of Bach. The others inspired by. Good album though. I like it more = than I thought I would. Daryl Loomis >>> "Rob, the Belgian guy" 11/07 1:01 PM >>> Zorn-agains, Uri Caine's Goldberg Variations, ok, Bach's compositions. Are all the = songs based on Bach? Even the one called "Vivaldi" and "Nobody knows the trouble I've seen"? I'm confused. Help me out ;) Greetings, Rob@llaert.NU ________________ www.rob.allaert.com=20 "The goal is to bring the same intensity to listening as the performer to playing." - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "samuel yrui" Subject: Milford Graves-Stories Date: 07 Nov 2000 17:13:11 CST just bought Milford Graves' Stories. wonderful. tracklisting: 1. Optical Inversions 2. Speaking to the Spoken 3. Changeable Changes 4. Territorial Moods 5. Continuous Conversations 6. Evolving Pathways Track Six is exceptionally enlightening. -samuel _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: new at Adventures In Sound Date: 07 Nov 2000 22:36:24 -0500 http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Up since the last email are: listening lists from Jon Abbey (Erstwhile Records) and Greg Kelley (Nmperign) interview with Eugene Chadbourne by Will York a piece on vallenato, a Columbian accordion music some thrift store finds by Mimi Meyer interview with Roscoe Mitchell review of the Cambodian Rocks album Also recently added are a section of interesting news and a discography of documentary sound. I'm always looking for writers (even previously published pieces are acceptable). Email me directly if you're interested. Thanks, Lang Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Documentary Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: FOOTLOOSE Date: 08 Nov 2000 01:01:54 EST Does anybody know if/where Paul Bley's FOOTLOOSE is in print? skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeroen de Boer" Subject: Dillinger Escape Plan (was Jim Black is a Rock Star) Date: 08 Nov 2000 10:37:01 GMT+0100 I went to a concert of the Dillinger Escape Plan last weekend, and I think they would be a nice substitute for the 'downtown metal all- stars. I have never witnessed a concert that was as intense and at the same time musically amazing as what I witnessed there. More metal than Prelapse, more jazz than metalbands like Cannibal Corpse or Morbid Angel. Although I don't know why I make these comparisons, because DES absolutely stands on it's own. The only thing I can come up with is a musical thunderstorm that lasts 45 minutes and leaves you grasping for breath. Check these guys out, because they will definitely change your ideas about extreme music.. (Mmmm, what about DES teaming up with someone like Merzbow..) Jeroen > As visions of a metal band of downtown all-stars dance through my head... Jeroen de Boer music director Open Electronic Festival/Cyberslag Foundation Munnekeholm 10, 9711JA Groningen The Netherlands tel/fax: +31 (0)503634676/(0)503632209 gsm: +31 (0)624814506 usva-th2@bureau.rug.nl http://www.cyberslag.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ricardo Reis Subject: Penguin guide... Date: 08 Nov 2000 10:05:15 +0000 (WET) When you get the 5th edition please tell me if they include Jonh Lurie. They didn t on the 4th... thanx, Ricardo Reis "NON SERVIAM" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: Drummers [reprise] Date: 08 Nov 2000 05:47:10 EST keith@pfmentum.com writes: > After seeing Han Bennink last week, I feared seeing Jim Black with > Eskelin/Parkins last night would prove anti-climactic. > > Unfounded fear. This was only my second time seeing Black (saw him with Uri Caine's Mahler ensemble a few months ago). He was much more impressive this time. What a great show. I'd actually never heard Eskelin before, but was really impressed with his intensity and style. I was also pleased that the show sold out, particularly after being disgusted that I was one of only two people to show up on Friday to see Hamiet Bluiett. Maybe there's hope for L.A. after all. jeff caltabiano n.p. chico hamilton w/ eric dolphy: original ellington suite - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: Drummers [reprise] Date: 08 Nov 2000 05:48:11 EST dan@state51.co.uk writes: > btw, anybody heard the recent vandermark/drake/mcbride record: > "spaceways incorporated: thirteen cosmic standards by sun ra & > funkadelic" (atavistic)? Great album. Has some really beautiful moments (the first and last tunes, in particular) with a lot of heavy funk in between. One of my favorite albums of the year. Vandermark is really onto something. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Blechmann Subject: Der Rote Bereich Date: 08 Nov 2000 14:41:28 +0100 Does anyone know the group "Der Rote Bereich"? On one of their CDs ("2"), Jim Black is the drummer. Any opinions about this CD? I don't really know, what to make of it. PEACE Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.de - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Blechmann Subject: Re: tWisT Date: 08 Nov 2000 14:27:14 +0100 Tuesday, November 07, 2000, 9:55:16 PM, you wrote: the> Since we're talking 'bout Jim Black. I really like Carlos Bica's "Twist" the> with Jim Black and Frank Möbus on guitar. Carlos plays double bass (what's the> the difference between contrabass/double bass/upright bass?). Anyone else the> got this one? I think it's hard to find in the US? I suppose there are no differences between the instruments. But several years ago I saw an electric upright bass in a concert (But I can't remember the musicians). Anyone knowing details about this instrument? PEACE Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.de - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "George Scala" Subject: Re: FOOTLOOSE Date: 08 Nov 2000 08:49:07 -0500 go to gemm.com and you will see over a dozen vendors selling this cd George Scala > Does anybody know if/where Paul Bley's FOOTLOOSE is in print? > > skip h > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: Dillinger Escape Plan (was Jim Black is a Rock Star) Date: 08 Nov 2000 13:00:01 EST In a message dated 11/8/00 4:38:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, usva-th2@bureau.rug.nl writes: << I went to a concert of the Dillinger Escape Plan last weekend, and I think they would be a nice substitute for the 'downtown metal all- stars. I have never witnessed a concert that was as intense and at the same time musically amazing as what I witnessed there. More metal than Prelapse, more jazz than metalbands like Cannibal Corpse or Morbid Angel. Although I don't know why I make these comparisons, because DES absolutely stands on it's own. The only thing I can come up with is a musical thunderstorm that lasts 45 minutes and leaves you grasping for breath. Check these guys out, because they will definitely change your ideas about extreme music.. (Mmmm, what about DES teaming up with someone like Merzbow..) >> Most agreed. Meshuggah is another similar tributary of that river. I think they've been mentioned before here, actually. -matt mitchell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: New Variations ? Date: 08 Nov 2000 13:06:58 EST In a message dated 11/7/00 4:26:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rob@llaert.NU writes: << Uri Caine's Goldberg Variations, ok, Bach's compositions. Are all the songs based on Bach? Even the one called "Vivaldi" and "Nobody knows the trouble I've seen"? I'm confused. Help me out ;) >> Essentially, it seems to me that there are some that are relative 'straightforward' readings, but the link of pretty much the whole album to the Goldberg Variations conceptually is tenuous at best, I'd say. Not to mention the fact that he does not even touch some the variations, and most of those that were 'inspired' actually seem to have nothing whatsoever linked to the Goldberg; they actually seem more an attempt to show how 'broad-minded' and 'versatile' he is, and they even fail at doing that. Actually, I kind of feel that the album is embarrassing, and almost insulting. A smart business move, though; he definitely does seem to be cashing in, touring a 40-piece choir across Europe, etc. -matt mitchell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alastair Wilson" Subject: Re: Penguin guide... Date: 08 Nov 2000 19:12:35 -0000 No John Lurie. Or David Torn or Mark Isham's Silent Way Project or Bill Bruford's Earthworks. But big AMM, Derek Bailey sections and the Chicago Underground Duo/Trio are in. "Jazz" gets harder and harder to define. First spotted error: Two different reviews (with differing star ratings) of "Towards The Margins" by the Evan Parker ElectroAcoustic Ensemble. Shall I tell them?;-) First time I've bought this after years of library consulting. Looking forward to discovering more great music through it. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 10:05 AM > > When you get the 5th edition please tell me if they include Jonh > Lurie. They didn t on the 4th... > > thanx, > > Ricardo Reis > > "NON SERVIAM" > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: special offer on Bobby Previte's web site... Date: 08 Nov 2000 11:47:07 -0800 Finally some activity on Bobby Previte's web site. Under the name "chance", Bobby makes the following offer: "LIMITED EDITION CD OFFER This is the first in a series of CD's which be sold only on the web. Each CD is a highest quality recording by Bongo Dali and Key Command, collecti- vely known as Swami Late Plate. These recordings will be collectors items as quantities will be limited. Each CD is hand signed by the artists. CD number one, "CANTO I" is available now. Click below to download a sample. [buttons to select among three samples] Does anybody know about this "Swami Late Plate"? Thanks, Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "michelle mercer" Subject: Re: New Variations ? Date: 08 Nov 2000 15:20:06 -0500 I'm usually a list lurker, a passive beneficiary of your knowledgeable discussions. But now the opportunity to play Mr. Caine's apologist has finally seduced me into posting. In full disclosure I should probably mention that I've reviewed Caine's Variations for publication a couple times. What it is: The original Goldberg Variations is a solo piano piece based on a catchy 32-bar aria and composed of thirty inventive treatments of that theme. Employing Bach’s own musical methods, Caine selected some of the original thirty variations and interspersed them with over thirty more of his own fabrication. The way I hear it: Caine found sure footing in Bach’s theme and variations model, which is not such a far cry from a jazz chart’s format. Caine’s variations, no matter how far-flung, are almost always within reach of Bach’ s original 32-bar harmony—but as a jazz musician Caine is accustomed to improvising over a head’s succession of prescribed chords. So the 32-bar harmony is the link to the original. If Caine's dizzying genre shifts can obscure this basic underlying pattern, repeated listenings might reveal how Caine keeps his stylistic peculiarities under formal control. Caine does sometimes seem to expect his listeners to be musicologists: some knowledge of the source composition—and of Bach’s entire oeuvre—is almost requisite for really meaningful listening. I didn't get it until I'd listened to Caine's variations while I followed along with Bach's score. But Caine told me he hoped you might enjoy the parodies of Rachmaninoff and Mozart Variations as individual tunes, even if you don't know what's being sent up, or how those Variations conform to Bach's harmonic structure. No matter how you hear the recording, I don't think there's anything embarrassing about any one of the variations; he pulls off all styles pretty capably. But maybe Matt means that Caine's display of his own broad stylistic conversance amounts to a kind of embarrassment of riches? Finally, mercenary motives would have necessarily figured into this project's recording, and its release during a Big Bach anniversary year is no coincidence. But that's as much Stefan Winter's business as it is Caine's. And the performing choirs on tour are typically local pick-up groups. Michelle -----Original Message----- >In a message dated 11/7/00 4:26:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rob@llaert.NU >writes: > ><< Uri Caine's Goldberg Variations, ok, Bach's compositions. Are all the songs > based on Bach? Even the one called "Vivaldi" and "Nobody knows the trouble > I've seen"? I'm confused. Help me out ;) >> > > >Essentially, it seems to me that there are some that are relative >'straightforward' readings, but the link of pretty much the whole album to >the Goldberg Variations conceptually is tenuous at best, I'd say. Not to >mention the fact that he does not even touch some the variations, and most of >those that were 'inspired' actually seem to have nothing whatsoever linked to >the Goldberg; they actually seem more an attempt to show how 'broad-minded' >and 'versatile' he is, and they even fail at doing that. > >Actually, I kind of feel that the album is embarrassing, and almost >insulting. A smart business move, though; he definitely does seem to be >cashing in, touring a 40-piece choir across Europe, etc. > >-matt mitchell > >- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: New Variations ? Date: 08 Nov 2000 15:23:05 EST MIchelle -- That was extremely well-said. Matt in the past has expressed displeasure about Uri's discs, a few bordering on attacks on his (Uri's) integrity. At most, I think Uri should probably have indicated what the more far-flung ideas were based on. It would have stopped a lot of people from saying he wrote stuff that had no connection to Bach. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Now that she's unlurked (was Re: New Variations ?) Date: 08 Nov 2000 15:30:42 -0500 michelle mercer wrote: > I'm usually a list lurker, a passive beneficiary of your knowledgeable > discussions. I advise everyone to take a moment and read Michelle's lucid review of Cecil Taylor and Tony Oxley in this week's Village Voice; she was at the same set as me, Ken and Jon and was the journalist I mentioned who laughed out loud with me at one point, as I mentioned in my own post. Go here: http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0045/sotc.shtml Scroll down past the Gary Lucas review to find Michelle's piece. Oh, wait, this is the Zornlist. READ the Gary Lucas piece and then keep going. Michelle's insightful New York Times feature on Uri Caine, for which I seem to remember posting a link here when it was new, is still on the Times website. But unfortunately, if you missed it, it's now in the archives and will cost you $2.50 to retrieve. Go to your library and look up the September 17 issue instead. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: Now that she's unlurked (was Re: New Variations ?) Date: 08 Nov 2000 15:41:28 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- > Michelle's insightful New York Times feature on Uri Caine, for which I seem to > remember posting a link here when it was new, is still on the Times website. > But unfortunately, if you missed it, it's now in the archives and will cost you > $2.50 to retrieve. Go to your library and look up the September 17 issue > instead. If anyone really wants a copy, I could e-mail it to you. I get free lexis-nexus at school. Reply off-list, of course. -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: New Variations ? Date: 08 Nov 2000 12:48:05 -0800 On Wed, 8 Nov 2000 15:23:05 EST Velaires@aol.com wrote: > > MIchelle -- > > That was extremely well-said. Matt in the past has expressed displeasure > about Uri's discs, a few bordering on attacks on his (Uri's) integrity. At > most, I think Uri should probably have indicated what the more far-flung > ideas were based on. It would have stopped a lot of people from saying he > wrote stuff that had no connection to Bach. I also criticized the record very harshly, and this was based on repeated listening of it (since I initially thought that repeated listenings would have a healing effect). This is a kind of exercize (a la maniere de) where you have to be very care- full: you have the umbrella of the great composer to whom you borrow (and you might feel safe hiding behind it), and there is what you are doing with (of course without any possible feedback from the artist). It is an exercize that has a lot to do with maintaining equilibrum on a high-wire. Very few have been able to do anything memorable with that. Fortunately, if you can't keep on the wire and fall, only bad taste will hit you :-). I thought that Uri Caine did a good job with his previous "a la maniere de" projects. I feel that he went overboard with that one and missed the mark (his use of such wide range of styles really annoyed me). I doubt that any analysis of the well founded reasons behind the project would change my mind. But since I do not read music, you are free to believe that I am missing the gist of the whole thing. I don't criticize the concept; I simply doubt its application and success. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: New Variations ? Date: 08 Nov 2000 12:52:48 -0800 On Wed, 8 Nov 2000 15:23:05 EST Velaires@aol.com wrote: > > MIchelle -- > > That was extremely well-said. Matt in the past has expressed displeasure > about Uri's discs, a few bordering on attacks on his (Uri's) integrity. At > most, I think Uri should probably have indicated what the more far-flung > ideas were based on. It would have stopped a lot of people from saying he But you are assuming that interesting ideas lead to interesting music... If this was the case, 50% of classical contemporary music would be masterpieces. In sciences, most ideas never leave the laboratory... Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: APoesia794@aol.com Subject: DES & Merzbow Date: 08 Nov 2000 19:43:44 EST almost...merzbow did a remix for the band discordance axis who are pretty damn fast and furious... <<(Mmmm, what about DES teaming up with someone like Merzbow..)>> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Naked City cover Date: 09 Nov 2000 12:44:42 +1100 Does anyone know the composer of the piece that Naked City covered from the Japanese film "Jingi No Hakaba"? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Naked City cover Date: 09 Nov 2000 15:16:46 +1100 > Does anyone know the composer of the piece that Naked City covered from > the Japanese film "Jingi No Hakaba"? In case anyone else is interested, I think I can answer my own question... I think his name is Toshiaki Tsushima. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Beardsley Subject: NYC Live Microtonal Music: Ataraxya + AFMM Microthon 2000 Date: 09 Nov 2000 00:21:30 -0800 Hello friends, On Saturday November 11, 2000 I will be performing with violinist Pat Pagano (South East Just Intonation Society) at the American Festival of Microtonal Music in NYC. We will be premiering our improvisation Ataraxia for Ebo Lapp Steel Guitar, Violin, Pre-recorded CD, echos (aka looping), and video sometime in the afternoon after 1pm. Come to hear us but I really recommend coming to the hear the whole day. AFMM: http://www.echonyc.com/~jhhl/AFMM/ MICROTHON 2000 Saturday, November 11, 2000 Quaker Meeting House (15th/16th street between 2nd and 3rd Avenues) 1:00 pm - 9:00 pm Ataraxya on the net: http://www.screwmusicforever.com/SHREESWIFT/ nada brahma, db -- * D a v i d B e a r d s l e y * 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time" * http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: New Variations ? Date: 09 Nov 2000 09:41:38 CET >From: Nudeants@aol.com >Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 13:06:58 EST > >Essentially, it seems to me that there are some that are relative >'straightforward' readings, but the link of pretty much the whole album to >the Goldberg Variations conceptually is tenuous at best, I'd say. Not to >mention the fact that he does not even touch some the variations, and most >of >those that were 'inspired' actually seem to have nothing whatsoever linked >to >the Goldberg; they actually seem more an attempt to show how 'broad-minded' >and 'versatile' he is, and they even fail at doing that. > >Actually, I kind of feel that the album is embarrassing, and almost >insulting. A smart business move, though; he definitely does seem to be >cashing in, touring a 40-piece choir across Europe, etc. > >-matt mitchell I´ve seen this project in August at the Saalfelden festival and it was one of most dissappointing and boring performances I´ve seen there in the last ten years. Lots of great musicians but this mixture of all styles leads to nowhere. Andreas _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: M. Gustafsson recommendations ? Date: 09 Nov 2000 18:59:43 +0100 Hi, Zornlist=20 I've heard a lot about swedish sax. Mats Gustafsson in the recent years, but barely know his music. All I have is two DKV Trio records ("Stumble" and "Live at Glenn Miller Caf=E9"), and "Background Music" with G. Gregorio and K. Nordeson. Could any Gustafsson specialist give a short priority list with 2-4 CDs that would be representative of the man's various facets ? Thanks a lot. Pascal. (np: G. Gregorio, "Approximately") - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Blechmann Subject: Re[2]: New Variations ? Date: 09 Nov 2000 18:38:38 +0100 Thursday, November 09, 2000, 9:41:38 AM, you wrote: Andreas> I´ve seen this project in August at the Saalfelden festival and it was one Andreas> of most dissappointing and boring performances I´ve seen there in the last Andreas> ten years. Lots of great musicians but this mixture of all styles leads to Andreas> nowhere. I've been there, too, but in my opinion, it was one of the best concerts of the festival. And it was the mixture of styles, that was fascinating. And it was much better than the cd. The problem of the CD is that it is a studio recording. There is no problem to mix so many different styles. But the concert was just a mixture of styles, the group produced. Much more like the Mahler recordings (Toblach). About his commercial success. Beside school, I work at a record store, and there I sold the Goldberg quite a lot. And there are two kinds of people, who buy it. There are the people interested in contemporary jazz / improvised music. But there are much more people, who usually listen to classical music and want to have something different, than the normal Goldberg Variations. PEACE Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.de PS: On November 17th, Uri Caine will give a concert in Stuttgart, Germany. (Probably piano solo) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: M. Gustafsson recommendations ? Date: 09 Nov 2000 10:51:23 -0800 (PST) --- Pascal Cortes > I've heard a lot about swedish sax. Mats Gustafsson > in the recent years, but barely know his music. > Could any Gustafsson specialist give a short priority list with 2-4 CDs > that would be representative of the man's various > facets ? I'm not a MG specialist, but I really like the GRYFFSGRYFFSGRYFFSGRYFFS session released by Music and Arts, which I think might be pretty cheap now. It features Raymond STrid (perc), Barry Guy (bass), and Marilyn Crispell (piano), and was apparently a one-off thing done with extra studio time. Free improv, lots of fun. Really loads and loads of energy. I much, much prefer this to BLOW HORN, w/ Vandermark et al, which is a little mediocre to my taste. The duo with Barry Guy, FROGGING (Maya), might not be essential, but it's terrific nonetheless. Finally, I listened to the Gush trio (MG, Strid, and a pianist whose name escapes me) fondly for a few years; I think FROM THINGS TO SOUNDS was my favorite, although the GUSHWACHS album features violinist Phil Wachsmann, who works a lot of electroacoustic magic. GUSHWACHS wasn't really to my taste, but I think a lot of electroacouctic fans _would_ like it----it tends toward the quiet and subtle, and timbral, if memory serves. Finally, for over-the-top blowing with plenty of ideas nonetheless, try MOUTH EATING TREES AND OTHER RELATED ACTIVITIES, with Paul Lovens (perc) and Barry Guy. It's insane. And if you find a rare copy of the much-coveted IMPROMPOSITIONS (solo enhanced-CD + book) or the duo with Lovens, NOTHING TO READ, buy them, and send them to me. Sorry, I didn't think I liked him that much. I think I do, after all. ----s P.S. Don't ever miss a chance to SEE him play! P.P.S. He really needs to throw away the fluteophone. It sounds dead and rather not-versatile. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@browbeat.com (m. rizzi) Subject: Duck, Incoming! Date: 09 Nov 2000 11:41:44 -0800 (PST) Hey Folks, I'm back from my 3 week Baja trip, and have waded through 2800 zorn-list bounces...among them were several emails that got filtered out....Sooooo, you will start to see some 'old' zorn-list email messages arriving in your mailbox soon. cheers, mike rizzi tanned-zorn-list-owner -- - --- rizzi@browbeat.com <-- NEW ADDRESS, rizzi@netcom.com going away soon ----- www.browbeat.com ------- Another nerd with a soulpatch - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Duck, Incoming! Date: 09 Nov 2000 14:05:20 -0500 Not actually an incoming duck, but a sample from an early game piece :-) -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Duck, Incoming! Date: 09 Nov 2000 12:10:04 -0800 Just spotted it: http://shoko.calarts.edu/~sroberts/articles/DeVaucanson.duck.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: M. Gustafsson recommendations ? Date: 09 Nov 2000 16:58:16 -0500 on 00.11.09 13:51, Scott Handley at thesubtlebody@yahoo.com wrote: > And if you find a rare copy of the > much-coveted IMPROMPOSITIONS (solo enhanced-CD + book) > or the duo with Lovens, NOTHING TO READ, buy them, and > send them to me. I believe Verge is handling IMPROMPOSITIONS now, so should be easy to come by. It's truly beautiful. I hope for more enhanced-CD versions of this music. okay, RL ---------- Sessionographies: CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies: COURVOISIER; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN. --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things-- Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k UPDATE *June 25*, 2000: Vids, a few CDs, baseball books, misc. ***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Duck, Incoming! Date: 09 Nov 2000 17:10:57 EST Was wondering when all of my "Barely 18 and wants to party" spam was gonna show up here...;-) Hope you had a good time in Baja... =dg= ====================== In a message dated Thu, 9 Nov 2000 2:43:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, rizzi@browbeat.com (m. rizzi) writes: << Hey Folks, I'm back from my 3 week Baja trip, and have waded through 2800 zorn-list bounces...among them were several emails that got filtered out....Sooooo, you will start to see some 'old' zorn-list email messages arriving in your mailbox soon. cheers, mike rizzi tanned-zorn-list-owner -- - --- rizzi@browbeat.com <-- NEW ADDRESS, rizzi@netcom.com going away soon ----- www.browbeat.com ------- Another nerd with a soulpatch - >> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Don Gunning" Subject: Re: week of small miracles Date: 07 Oct 2000 08:23:39 -0500 Caleb T. Deupree queried: > At 06:48 AM 10/7/00 +0200, Francesco Martinelli wrote: > >anyone interested in this music/sound experiment field should try to get the > >new cd by (?) Peter Cusack > > Is this the same artist that has a new cd on ReR, Where is the Green > Parrot? Anyone heard this and care to comment? I have this, it's a mixture of guitar, bouzouki, and field recordings. Recordings of things like going shopping in London, visiting a toy store, travel agency, and guitar shop. Some guitar is layered over parts of it, also some guitar that was recorded at the guitar shop. The title piece is bouzouki with an accompaniment of bird songs and calls. On another subject, I see that Anomalous has released "Aureum" -- a 2 LP compilation of some of Ora's finest moments from their earlier cassette releases, my copy is on the way. I sure hope that this won't be the last we ever hear from Ora. Don - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: riot, indeed Date: 27 Oct 2000 10:11:36 -0700 On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:09:17 +0100 simon hopkins wrote: > > ...and noted that this was posted under the smug-schoolboy title > "Look at the Riot I've caused" and realized that sharing even > *virtual* space with a right-wing fuck-knuckle like you made me feel > like I needed a shower. So I'll be unsubscribing. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Please don't, you will give this person to much importance. Don't make the full list responsible for the acts of one. I am sure that the vast majority of people on the list were appalled at what that person said. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M. pathos" Subject: words for nothing(s) Date: 04 Nov 2000 14:48:44 GMT After having been lambasted by (other) self-appointed arbiters of popular taste who've taken what I said too literally, and far too seriously, I'd like to point out: I admire Bowie's work. Notwithstanding my mystical (and thus unsubstantiable) views about artistic production, I accept that it's relatively common for compositions and performances to be intellectually interesting without being emotionally appealing. At his best, Bowie can definitely be the former: a challenging three-dimensional mock-up of a possible pop star. In fact, a lot of jazz's dividends depend on intellectualism. I frequently hear the music denigrated as "doodling"; that evaluation misses the point. Maybe improvised music is the ritualistic exploration of possible sonic outcomes extrapolated from a set of parameters. Also, assuming it's the artist's choice, I see nothing wrong in "selling out". Certainly I'd never attack anyone because they'd passed a certain threshold of public or financial recognition. It's part of the parameters thing again: whether it's Shostakovich composing to please himself and his censors, or any songwriter trying to construct a pop ballad, much (more?) can be said by working within set structures. But it's a truism that words can't express what music is. Maybe better to leave it at "cobra live 1995? great record!" (or not) and move on. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: Francisco Lopez Date: 06 Oct 2000 23:26:34 -0700 (PDT) Brian Olewick wrote [vis a vis B. Gunter's music]: > The fascinating > thing is when I'm unable to determine whether the > noise is ambient or > from the disc. When I first played the Gunter/Duncan > disc, "Home, > Unspeakable", I distinctly remember my shock upon > realizing that sounds > I assumed to be ambient all of a sudden ended when > the disc stopped. This kind of environmental blurring is one the great pleasures of some of the new music I've been checking out, though I've yet to hear Gunter's or Lopez's work. I remember that there was quite a bit of praise for Robert Ashley's AUTOMATIC WRITING for precisely this reason---i.e. the sounds have this disturbing adjacency; I can't remember if that dialogue happened here or elsewhere, though; all the lists begin to blur together. :> -----s P.S. But ya'll are _special_. NP: Built to Spill, KEEP IT LIKE A SECRET (really enjoyable indie rock, nice textures, though not my usual fare; had a wonderful Velvet Underground experience last week, BTW; I think I finally "got it"; suddenly, simultaneously less and more patience with much pop/rock/punk/etc from past 30 years. God, took long enough...) NR: Howard Zinn, PEOPLE'S HISTORY... (what is it with me?? why don't I find this stuff sooner...) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: help with ATOMIC MILK THROWERS (compilation) Date: 23 Oct 2000 14:30:48 -0700 I am looking for some help with the following compilation: *** - ATOMIC MILK THROWERS: various artists Arto Lindsay; etc. 1999 - Snowdonia (Italy), ??? (CD) Does anybody own it? Thanks, Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@browbeat.com (m. rizzi) Subject: Re: Duck, Incoming! Date: 09 Nov 2000 15:37:22 -0800 (PST) >Was wondering when all of my "Barely 18 and wants to party" spam was gonna >show up here...;-) Sorry, it is my duty as list operator, to uh...thoroughly detain and, uh, inspect those spam messages for any unseemly or prurient content. In fact, I'll double check each and every message PERSONALLY. It might even take longer than a Florida recount. selflessly, mike rizzi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fag music" Subject: Incoming duck Date: 09 Nov 2000 16:02:32 -0800 U28sDQogICBsaWtlLEknbSBuZXcgdG8gdGhpcyBsaXN0LHNvLGJlIGdlbnRsZSxndXlzLi4u d2hvIGlzIHRoaXMgV2VpcmQgTmlnaHRtYXJlIGJhbmQ/Pz8/SSBoYXZlIG9uZSBvZiB0aGVp ciBhbGJ1bXMsY2FsbGVkIG1lZGl0YXRpb24gb24gbWluZ3VzLGFuZCBzb3VuZHMgdmVyeSBm YW1pbGlhci4uLi5pcyB0aGUgYW55IGNvbm5lY3Rpb24gdG8gWm9ybj8/Pz8NClTpIG1haXMs DQpGYWJy7WNpbw0KDQoNCg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQpIb3cgZG8geW91IHNwZWxsIEVNQUlMPyAgWW91 IEAgMzcuY29tIC0gVGhlIHdvcmxkJ3MgZWFzaWVzdCBmcmVlIEVtYWlsIGFkZHJlc3MNCkdl dCB5b3VyIGZyZWUgZW1haWwgYXQ6ICBodHRwOi8vZW1haWwuMzcuY29tLw0KDQoNCg== - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Incoming duck Date: 10 Nov 2000 11:04:07 +1100 > like,I'm new to this list,so,be gentle,guys...who is this Weird Nightmare > band????I have one of their albums,called meditation on mingus,and sounds > very familiar....is the any connection to Zorn???? That album is a tribute to Charles Mingus, they are not really a 'band' as such, just a mixed bunch of musicians (I believe 'Weird Nightmare' is actually the name of the album). And yes there is a very large connection to Zorn - a lot of the players have played with him (Bill Frisell, Greg Cohen, Bobby Previte, Gary Lucas, Marc Ribot, etc...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@browbeat.com (m. rizzi) Subject: Re: Incoming duck Date: 09 Nov 2000 16:06:56 -0800 (PST) while I appreciate a good binary joke as the next geek, I don't have time to hand convert this into something meaningful. Wanna try that again, in ASCII English (no attachments please)? mike >U28sDQogICBsaWtlLEknbSBuZXcgdG8gdGhpcyBsaXN0LHNvLGJlIGdlbnRsZSxndXlzLi4u >d2hvIGlzIHRoaXMgV2VpcmQgTmlnaHRtYXJlIGJhbmQ/Pz8/SSBoYXZlIG9uZSBvZiB0aGVp >ciBhbGJ1bXMsY2FsbGVkIG1lZGl0YXRpb24gb24gbWluZ3VzLGFuZCBzb3VuZHMgdmVyeSBm >YW1pbGlhci4uLi5pcyB0aGUgYW55IGNvbm5lY3Rpb24gdG8gWm9ybj8/Pz8NClTpIG1haXMs >DQpGYWJy7WNpbw0KDQoNCg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t >LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQpIb3cgZG8geW91IHNwZWxsIEVNQUlMPyAgWW91 >IEAgMzcuY29tIC0gVGhlIHdvcmxkJ3MgZWFzaWVzdCBmcmVlIEVtYWlsIGFkZHJlc3MNCkdl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given Subject: Re: M. Gustafsson recommendations ? Date: 09 Nov 2000 19:16:55 -0800 > From: Rick Lopez > Scott Handley at thesubtlebody@yahoo.com wrote: > > > And if you find a rare copy of the > > much-coveted IMPROMPOSITIONS (solo enhanced-CD + book) > > or the duo with Lovens, NOTHING TO READ, buy them, and > > send them to me. > > I believe Verge is handling IMPROMPOSITIONS now, so should be easy to come > by. > > It's truly beautiful. I hope for more enhanced-CD versions of this music. > I picked up a copy several months ago at a local chain outlet -- seems that the first printing ran out quickly, but it is now readily available again. (I know this store has gone through 5 already!) As for other Gustafsson recommendations, I would heartily recommend two recent releases -- Windows and Xylophonen Virtuosen. Windows is Gustafsson's take on some Steve Lacy tunes, a Cecil Taylor piece, and a couple of original compositions; XV is a duo with Jim O'Rourke. Gustafsson's playing on both is similar -- some of the ideas he is developing, some of the rapid-fire reed pops he is doing, etc -- and both are very, very good. Not just technical showcases, but really good music. I like O'Rourke's playing on XV, though I'm not a big fan of his work in general. Here he plays all acoustic guitar, with a country blues/folk feel to it. There's also another recent Gustafsson release called Port Huron Picnic, a trio with a guitar/drum duo from Toronto, that I am having a hard time warming up to. I'll have to try again soon. Dan _______________________________________________________________________ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html _______________________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: M. Gustafsson recommendations ? Date: 09 Nov 2000 23:13:19 -0500 WINDOWS, the recent solo MG release featuring a bunch of Lacy covers (on Blue Chopsticks) is very enjoyable, imho. Brian Olewnick NP: Tatsu Aoki - Basser Live - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Variations !? (longish) Date: 10 Nov 2000 00:15:00 EST Being a musician, I do understand what Uri's TRYING to do with this record.=20= =20 I'm actually a pianist/composer (jazz, classical, etc.) and have played Bach= =20 for about 15 years. I even learned about half of the Goldberg at one point,= =20 and I've at least read through the rest of it on numerous other occasions, s= o=20 I understand the source fairly well. Also, being a composer who's not only=20 used similar techniques to those that Uri is purporting to use but also one=20 who's studied LOTS of music, I generally feel that if there was any THERE=20 there, I'd probably get it, if maybe only subliminally on the first few=20 listens. =20 I mention my this only to establish that I already understand the points you= =20 were making, that I'm not listening as only as a listener, but as a musician= =20 as well. I unfortunately do mean embarrassing in the 'non-rich' sense of the word. I= =20 just happen to feel that these connections you mention here happen to be=20 extremely shallow. The variations played 'straight' are recorded dubiously=20 to say the least, not to mention played in a manner that I perceive as=20 pedestrian. Those that attempt to meld diverse styles seem to me to me=20 postmodern wankery, and the jazz tunes just sound like an excuse for a jazz=20 tune. I don't deny that he probably has his threadbare theoretical=20 justification for each move he makes here. Additionally, I just find the=20 original concept bereft of worth in the first place. =20 I mean, I've got at least 1,500 CDs, which might be chump change to some=20 people here, but they cover a pretty wide swath of types or styles (ouch) of= =20 music, and I'm NOT musically conservative. This record just doesn't begin t= o=20 compare in quality to almost anything I've ever heard. Some friends of mine= =20 have an even HARSHER opinion than I do; one friend in particular feels that=20 this is this whole concept amounts to trickery, that he's 'fooled' everyone.= =20 I actually stop somewhat short of stepping into the mind of someone I don't=20 know and pretending to see what their motives are, but anyway... Part of the huge dilemma for me with these records of Uri is that I KNOW and= =20 have known people who play with him, and from what I understand he actually=20 seems to be an unusually nice, relaxed, fun guy for whom to work. The=20 Dilemma comes with me just utterly hating his records, and hating them on a=20 number of levels at that. I've played on numerous occasions with a couple o= f=20 the musicians on the Goldberg record, and they don't even sound as good as I= =20 know they can. I really truly don't mean to sound like an asshole here, although there are=20 no doubt those here that will choose to write me off as one, and that's fine= .=20 I also have no desire to call upon Uri's integrity, and actually never have= =20 had such a desire, though I can understand how Skip would come to this=20 conclusion; frankly, confusion, with respect to the 'why' of it all, enters=20 into all this as much as anything else does. This is just merely how I felt= =20 upon hearing it and how I feel upon thinking about it. Lest it seem like I=20 have some personal vendetta against Uri (which I really really don't), I'll=20 refrain from writing further about it, but I'm still very curious to hear=20 other viewpoints. -matt mitchell In a message dated 11/8/00 3:18:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, m.mercer@rcn.co= m=20 writes: << I'm usually a list lurker, a passive beneficiary of your knowledgeable discussions. But now the opportunity to play Mr. Caine's apologist has finally seduced me into posting. In full disclosure I should probably mention that I've reviewed Caine's Variations for publication a couple times. =20 What it is: The original Goldberg Variations is a solo piano piece based on a catchy 32-bar aria and composed of thirty inventive treatments of that theme. Employing Bach=E2=80=99s own musical methods, Caine selected some of= the original thirty variations and interspersed them with over thirty more of his own fabrication. =20 The way I hear it: Caine found sure footing in Bach=E2=80=99s theme and var= iations model, which is not such a far cry from a jazz chart=E2=80=99s format. Cain= e=E2=80=99s variations, no matter how far-flung, are almost always within reach of Bach= =E2=80=99 s original 32-bar harmony=E2=80=94but as a jazz musician Caine is accustome= d to improvising over a head=E2=80=99s succession of prescribed chords. So the 3= 2-bar harmony is the link to the original. If Caine's dizzying genre shifts can obscure this basic underlying pattern, repeated listenings might reveal how Caine keeps his stylistic peculiarities under formal control. =20 Caine does sometimes seem to expect his listeners to be musicologists: some knowledge of the source composition=E2=80=94and of Bach=E2=80=99s entire oe= uvre=E2=80=94is almost requisite for really meaningful listening. I didn't get it until I'd listened to Caine's variations while I followed along with Bach's score. Bu= t Caine told me he hoped you might enjoy the parodies of Rachmaninoff and Mozart Variations as individual tunes, even if you don't know what's being sent up, or how those Variations conform to Bach's harmonic structure. No matter how you hear the recording, I don't think there's anything embarrassing about any one of the variations; he pulls off all styles prett= y capably. But maybe Matt means that Caine's display of his own broad stylistic conversance amounts to a kind of embarrassment of riches? =20 Finally, mercenary motives would have necessarily figured into this project's recording, and its release during a Big Bach anniversary year is no coincidence. But that's as much Stefan Winter's business as it is Caine's. And the performing choirs on tour are typically local pick-up groups. =20 Michelle >> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Variations !? (longish) Date: 09 Nov 2000 23:47:15 -0500 On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 12:15:00AM -0500, Nudeants@aol.com wrote: > Part of the huge dilemma for me with these records of Uri is that I KNOW and > have known people who play with him, and from what I understand he actually > seems to be an unusually nice, relaxed, fun guy for whom to work. The > Dilemma comes with me just utterly hating his records, and hating them on a > number of levels at that. I've played on numerous occasions with a couple of > the musicians on the Goldberg record, and they don't even sound as good as I > know they can. Do you feel this way about his other work? I have and enjoy his Mahler reworkings (rather as I like the Hal Willner tributes to various composers) and really dig Zohar, but that may just be due to digging the cantorial work. I haven't heard anything else of his that I can recall. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fastian@aol.com Subject: Re: M. Gustafsson recommendations ? Date: 10 Nov 2000 00:50:51 EST In a message dated 11/9/00 10:00:44 AM Pacific Standard Time,=20 Pascal.Cortes@dstu.univ-montp2.fr writes: <<=20 I've heard a lot about swedish sax. Mats Gustafsson in the recent years, but barely know his music. All I have is two DKV Trio records ("Stumble" and "Live at Glenn Miller Caf=E9"), and "Background Music" with G. Gregorio and K. Nordeson. =20 Could any Gustafsson specialist give a short priority list with 2-4 CDs that would be representative of the man's various facets ? >> I think you mean Aaly Trio, not DKV. My favorite of that trio is "Hidde= n=20 In the Stomache" on Silkheart. Really nice "tunes", well thought out and=20 considered, and very well recorded. Someone mentioned Gush. I would highly recommend that group as well. =20 The pianist is Sten Sandell and he is amazing. These are on the Dragon=20 label(Sweden) and available through Cadence. The "Impropisitions" is available cheap thru Wayside though I haven't=20 gotten mine yet. Gustaffson also plays on the Brotzmann Tentet cds on Okka and those are=20 must haves though he has to be heard above Brotzmann, Vandermark, and Mars=20 Williams. "You Forget to Answer" with Guy and Strid on Maya is really interesting=20 as well. I've had the pleasure of seeing him a few times and he's really amazing=20 to see. He even played locally at Sonoma State with George Cramaschi and=20 Garth Powell in a practice room. Cheers, John Threadgould - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Variations !? (longish) Date: 10 Nov 2000 17:17:55 +1100 << Part of the huge dilemma for me with these records of Uri is that I KNOW and have known people who play with him, and from what I understand he actually seems to be an unusually nice, relaxed, fun guy for whom to work. The Dilemma comes with me just utterly hating his records, and hating them on a number of levels at that. I've played on numerous occasions with a couple of the musicians on the Goldberg record, and they don't even sound as good as I know they can. >> Due to a number of different negative posts about the album (as well as the ridiculously high price if I was to buy it here in Australia) I have not actually bought it. However, just from reading your post, it seems like you are expecting too much from the guy. Since you describe him as a "nice, relaxed, fun guy" don't you reckon some of the motive behind his music might be just pure fun? And maybe on some records the musicians aren't going to go all out and sound like you remember them, but rather just jam and have fun? I don't know, but it seems like you wanted something revolutionary, and this obviously wasn't the place to look... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fag music" Subject: The ballad of what's his name Date: 10 Nov 2000 06:49:46 -0800 SGVsbG8sDQogICAgdGhlcmUuQ2FuIGFueW9uZSB0ZWxsIG1lIGlmIE1hcmMgUmlib3QgYW5k IEJ1Y2tldGhlYWQgaGF2ZSBwbGF5ZWQgdG9nZXRoZXIgc29tZXRpbWU/TXkgb25seSBndWVz cyBpcyB0aGF0IHRoZXkgZ290IHRvZ2V0aGVyIG9uIFByYXhpcyxidXQgdGhlbiBhZ2FpbixJ IGd1ZXNzIFJpYm90IHdhc24ndCBpbiBQcmF4aXMuLi5hbnkgY29sbGFib3JhdGlvbnMgd2l0 aCBib3RoIG9mJ2VtP1RoYXQnZCBiZSBjb29sLg0KVOkgbWFpcywNCkZhYnLtY2lvDQoNCicn LUZpbGhvLGEgdmlkYSDpIHVtYSBsYXJhbmphLg0KICAtTyBxdWUgaXNzbyBxdWVyIGRpemVy LHBhaT8NCiAgLU7jbyB0ZW5obyBhIG3tbmltYSBpZOlpYSxmaWxoby4nJw0KDQoNCg0KLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tDQpIb3cgZG8geW91IHNwZWxsIEVNQUlMPyAgWW91IEAgMzcuY29tIC0gVGhlIHdvcmxk J3MgZWFzaWVzdCBmcmVlIEVtYWlsIGFkZHJlc3MNCkdldCB5b3VyIGZyZWUgZW1haWwgYXQ6 ICBodHRwOi8vZW1haWwuMzcuY29tLw0KDQoNCg== - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: The ballad of what's his name Date: 11 Nov 2000 02:02:49 +1100 << Can anyone tell me if Marc Ribot and Buckethead have played together sometime?My only guess is that they got together on Praxis,but then again,I guess Ribot wasn't in Praxis...any collaborations with both of'em?That'd be cool. >> I doubt it, their attitudes/styles are so different. The only thing I could imagine is Zorn possibly bringing them together for some live improv show or something... They were both on the Marc Bolan tribute, but from memory their tracks were nearly as far apart as they could be. Maybe they're just destined to remain apart (now someone's going to ruin this by telling me that they have played together in a garage band at school or something...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: M. Gustafsson: thanks Date: 10 Nov 2000 16:07:42 +0100 Hello Zornsters, thank you all for your recommendations regarding Mats Gustafsson. So I'll start with (in fact I just ordered) - Mouth eatin trees... - Imprompositions - Xylophen Virtuosen And next on my shopping list should be - GRYFFSGRYFFSGRYFFSGRYFFS - Windows And then .... then we'll see. Thanks again. Pascal (np Masaoka/Dunn/Robair "Crepuscular music" -Rastascan-) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stinkipipi@aol.com Subject: ebay Date: 10 Nov 2000 12:08:01 EST someone has a bunch of zorn-related stuff for sale on ebay. looks like mostly filmworks and masada cds. dave - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Philippe Dupuis Subject: naked city covers (RADIO) Date: 10 Nov 2000 13:31:19 +0000 hey, speaking of naked city covers, does anyone know the name of the picture (by man ray i think) that's in the RADIO album? the one with the woman sitting on her hands. i've been trying to find out what's it called now for some time. maybe it's in the sleeve notes, but i don't own the record. any help would .... well, help. martin dupuis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linares Hugo Subject: RE: naked city covers (RADIO) Date: 10 Nov 2000 14:56:27 -0300 > maybe it's in the sleeve notes, but i don't own the record. [Linares Hugo] It's not in the sleeves notes, as far as I'm concerned. Hugo Linares - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fag music" Subject: Merzbow's influence on Kristallnacht Date: 10 Nov 2000 09:58:30 -0800 Recently, I heard the song ''never again'',on Zorn's Kristallnacht,and that song sounds very familiar to some of Masami Akita's stuff on Oersted(well,only had the guts to hear this one,but most of his work is the same).So,just wondering:did Merzbow had any influence on Zorn's work?Cause Zorn's into a lot of japanese stuff,and since Merzbow is a japanese noise institution,there's probably something to do,but I'm not sure....anyone? Noises, Maldoror How do you spell EMAIL? You @ 37.com - The world's easiest free Email address Get your free email at: http://email.37.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: marax Subject: remove-list-digest Date: 10 Nov 2000 10:05:34 -0800 (PST) --0-1365180540-973879534=:27347 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All with one Wallet. --0-1365180540-973879534=:27347 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii


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Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All with one Wallet. --0-1365180540-973879534=:27347-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: naked city covers (RADIO) Date: 10 Nov 2000 13:41:59 -0500 At 1:31 PM +0000 11/10/00, Philippe Dupuis wrote: >hey, > >speaking of naked city covers, does anyone know the name of >the picture (by man ray i think) that's in the RADIO album? > La Pri=E8re (1930). Glad to help, Maurice -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: hal wilner Date: 10 Nov 2000 13:56:41 -0500 as julian pointed out, 'weird nightmare' isn't a band, but i'd like to encourage the original poster (and anyone who hasn't) to investigate more of wilner's productions if you like this one. weird nightmare might be the best of the lot, but 'stay awake' (disney music) has its charm. 'that's the way i feel now' is soon to be reissued on cd with the zorn track put back on, and there's a lot of other great stuff, too. the nino rota one isn't really as striking, i thinks. the use of the partch instruments gives the mingus disc a really nice cohesiveness. the others sound more like the hit-or-miss tribute comps they are. after some of the talk here, i managed to find a beat-up copy of wilner's 'i am an indian,' which i really like. nothing what i expected. but the disc i bought came with no notes, art. anyone here i could get to copy the booklet for me? also, i'm looking for some help with a vinyl to cdr transfer for a holiday gift. anyone (in nyc, i guess) i could get to help? i'd offer money or boots to trade. >> like,I'm new to this list,so,be gentle,guys...who is this Weird >Nightmare >> band????I have one of their albums,called meditation on mingus,and sounds >> very familiar....is the any connection to Zorn???? > That album is a tribute to Charles Mingus, they are not really a 'band' as > such, just a mixed bunch of musicians - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins Subject: CDs for auction on eBay Date: 10 Nov 2000 16:08:58 -0500 Sorry for the cross-post but I think there are things for auction here that would interest a bunch of different people. If you don't like this, please delete this message. There's a Sony DAT walkman up for bid as well. Look here for my auctions: http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=hewins&include=0&since=-1&sort=2&rows=25 Thanks, Dan Hewins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben Axelrad" Subject: Hapna Date: 10 Nov 2000 15:15:21 CST the european free improvisation page lists a new swedish label, hapna. does anyone know if these are distributed in the us? also, has anyone heard the rudiger carl/sven-ake johansson disc?? thanks, ben _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: hal wilner Date: 10 Nov 2000 16:42:40 -0500 kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote: > as julian pointed out, 'weird nightmare' isn't a band, but i'd like to encourage > the original poster (and anyone who hasn't) to investigate more of wilner's > productions if you like this one. > > weird nightmare might be the best of the lot, but 'stay awake' (disney music) > has its charm. 'that's the way i feel now' is soon to be reissued on cd with the > zorn track put back on, and there's a lot of other great stuff, too. the nino > rota one isn't really as striking, i thinks. I'm still completely smitten with the first Kurt Weill tribute, 'Lost in the Stars' (A&M). Yes, it may be a "hit and miss" tribute compilation, but so much of it hits for me on so many different levels. Sting's "Mack the Knife" and Stan Ridgway's "Cannon Song" are both successful poppish readings. Marianne Faithfull's "Ballad of the Soldier's Wife" is fine and decadent, Richard Butler's "Alabama Song" ain't bad, and even Lou Reed's cranky geezer take on "September Song" amuses me. On the jazz side, there's a lush reading of "Lost in the Stars" by Phil Woods with Carla Bley's band and a dreamy "Speak Low" by Charlie Haden and Sharon Freeman, not to mention the bold whoops and blasts of Henry Threadgill's "The Great Hall." And further out, Zorn's "Little Lieutenant of the Loving God" is an important step on the path to 'The Big Gundown,' Elliott Sharp's "Meatball Song" is distiguished by Sussan Dehiem's vocal gurgle, and Tom Waits's "What Keeps Mankind Alive" is brutally squalid. An incredibly important album for me when it first appeared, and it still holds up 15 years later. The later Weill tribute on Columbia has less of interest. But I strongly recommend this one. And I eagerly await the reissue of the Monk tribute, one of very few recordings where I ditched the CD version and clung to the vinyl. 'Stay Awake' is fun, too, but definitely tilted more to the pop side of the spectrum. (Marginally related: does anyone know if the audiobook version of William S. Burroughs reading 'Naked Lunch' with accompaniment by Frisell and Horvitz was ever made available on CD? I passed on the cassettes, snob that I am...) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: hal wilner Date: 10 Nov 2000 13:53:07 -0800 On Fri, 10 Nov 2000 16:42:40 -0500 Steve Smith wrote: > > (Marginally related: does anyone know if the audiobook version of > William S. > Burroughs reading 'Naked Lunch' with accompaniment by Frisell and > Horvitz was ever > made available on CD? I passed on the cassettes, snob that I am...) Yes: 094 - NAKED LUNCH: William S. Burroughs Music by Bill Frisell, Wayne Horvitz, and Eyvind Kang. Produced by Hal Willner and James Grauerholz Bill Frisell; Wayne Horvitz; Eyvind Kang. 1995 - Warner (USA), 2-522206 (3xCD) although I have never seen it. Also, I was not aware of its availability on tapes. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: hal wilner Date: 10 Nov 2000 13:58:22 -0800 (PST) On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > although I have never seen it. Also, I was not aware of its availability on > tapes. i have the cd set. it's not complete, alas. i have seen the cassette version - apparently it is more complete but it could be the same abridged version. hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BlackBook78@aol.com Subject: Metal Machine Music Date: 10 Nov 2000 19:07:43 EST --part1_b4.d085560.273de7cf_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello- Since this has been reissued recently, I was wondering what everyones thoughts were on Lou Reeds stake in experimental noise............ --part1_b4.d085560.273de7cf_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello-

Since this has been reissued recently, I was wondering what everyones
thoughts were on Lou Reeds stake in experimental noise............ --part1_b4.d085560.273de7cf_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: AMM photos Date: 10 Nov 2000 19:42:55 EST some cool photos of AMM and a few other acts at the Autumn Uprising festival at: http://thefsb.org/au2k/ 34-36 are during the AMM set. 24-27 are from the solo Rowe set. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: new Penguin Guide crowns Date: 10 Nov 2000 20:04:40 EST Since those of us in the States have to wait a few more months for the new Penguin, i'm curious if the new edition has entries on reissues from some of the smaller/ medium size labels, particularly Knitting Factory (for example, all the Ronald Shannon Jackson and Rashied Ali reissues) and 32 Jazz (all the Rahsaan Roland Kirks and Woody Shaw reissues)? jeff caltabiano n.p. leon parker: belief (1996) ...not reviewed in the '98 edition - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Crump Subject: Re: new Penguin Guide crowns Date: 10 Nov 2000 17:20:27 -0800 Jeffcalt@aol.com wrote: > Since those of us in the States have to wait a few more months for the new > Penguin, i'm curious if the new edition has entries on reissues from some of > the smaller/ medium size labels, particularly Knitting Factory (for example, > all the Ronald Shannon Jackson and Rashied Ali reissues) and 32 Jazz (all the > Rahsaan Roland Kirks and Woody Shaw reissues)? > > jeff caltabiano > n.p. leon parker: belief (1996) ...not reviewed in the '98 edition > > - Hey, guess what, person in the States... you DON'T have to wait. When Jon dropped the bomb on us that the 5th edition was out (much shorter wait than the wait between the 3rd and 4th editions!), I immediately went to amazon.co.uk and ordered myself a copy. Even with overseas airmail shipping, it came out to less than 20 British pounds, and it's a 1742-page hardcover. It should fall into my lap early next week. (I'll wear a cup that day.) Why wait? William Crump - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?A?= Subject: Re: DES & Merzbow Date: 10 Nov 2000 18:06:32 -0800 (PST) I remember that I saw on the Relapse Records mailorder catalog a while ago some 7" that was credited to Masami Akita and Dave Witte (Discordance Axis drummer). The project was called Abe Sada and the 7" s title was "Original Body Kingdom", if I'm not getting a horrible mix-up right now. almost...merzbow did a remix for the band discordance axis who are pretty damn fast and furious... <<(Mmmm, what about DES teaming up with someone like Merzbow..)>> - - __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fag music" Subject: RE: hal wilner Date: 10 Nov 2000 18:11:57 -0800 Since I'm the original poster, I'll try to find some of its stuff then.Thanks,dude. Sweet nightmares, Mango Mingus >From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com >Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 13:56:41 -0500 >To: >Subject: hal wilner > > >as julian pointed out, 'weird nightmare' isn't a band, but i'd like to encourage >the original poster (and anyone who hasn't) to investigate more of wilner's >productions if you like this one. > >weird nightmare might be the best of the lot, but 'stay awake' (disney music) >has its charm. 'that's the way i feel now' is soon to be reissued on cd with the >zorn track put back on, and there's a lot of other great stuff, too. the nino >rota one isn't really as striking, i thinks. How do you spell EMAIL? You @ 37.com - The world's easiest free Email address Get your free email at: http://email.37.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CDiggz@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #159 Date: 11 Nov 2000 00:07:09 EST .is there any truth to the rumor that buckethead is the new guitar player for guns n roses ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Buckethead (Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #159) Date: 11 Nov 2000 00:15:41 EST CDiggz@aol.com writes: > is there any truth to the rumor that buckethead is the new guitar player for > guns n roses i spoked to a guy who's in the music industry here in L.A. and he said Axl's had a revolving group of musicians play with him over the past few years--none of whom have had the patience to stick around. he says Buckethead has recorded with Axl (who retains the Guns n Roses name), but doubts highly that he'll be an actual member (more recording, touring, etc.). it would be a bad career move. Axl's a has-been. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sh" Subject: Fw: Buckethead (Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #159) Date: 11 Nov 2000 01:50:28 -0400 Actually, Guns' management, Big F.D., officially announced that Buckethead and Robin Finck are now part of the band, and Bob Ezrin is the A&R guy. I think Brain has since been confirmed to be behind the kit. "They" [Guns] are going to play their first show in seven years (Rock In Rio) in January, and a world tour is perhaps in the making starting next summer. > > is there any truth to the rumor that buckethead is the new guitar player > for > > guns n roses - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M. pathos" Subject: Re: hal wilner's Indian Date: 11 Nov 2000 11:48:07 GMT If anyone would care to pass on info (esp. musical content and personnel credits) about Wilner's "solo" lp "Whoops! I'm an Indian!" I'd appreciate it. It it's ever been available in Canada, I've sure never seen it (not for wont of trying). Thanks in advance. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fate@telepath.com (Your Imaginary Friend) Subject: Re: hal wilner's Indian Date: 11 Nov 2000 09:43:27 -0500 >If anyone would care to pass on info (esp. musical content and personnel >credits) about Wilner's "solo" lp "Whoops! I'm an Indian!" I'd appreciate >it. It it's ever been available in Canada, I've sure never seen it (not for >wont of trying). Thanks in advance. _Whoops I'm an Indian_ is pure samplemania, obviously a by-product of Willner's enormous and eclectic record collection. Hence, the handful of folks credited on the recording are: HW - samples Mocean Worker (Adam Dorn) - beats Martin Brumbach - mix Ralph Carney - woodwinds on 4 tracks The record was a motherfucker to find - I finally eyeballed a vinyl copy at Mod Lang in Berkeley while on vacation last year, then mail-ordered the cd from them after I got back to Oklahoma. I'd recommend trying them... www.modlang.com (although the site hasn't been updated for a couple of months...). Jon Mooneyham _________________________ Radio Free Norman 96.7 FM http://radiofreenorman.20m.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: cusack Date: 11 Nov 2000 13:13:14 EST In a message dated 11/9/00 7:31:56 PM, you wrote: << Is this the same artist that has a new cd on ReR, Where is the Green > Parrot? Anyone heard this and care to comment? >> howdy'i just reviewed this in Signal to Noise. I'll edit myself here and recommend folks find SiggyNoiz anyway. yrs steve koenig Peter Cusack Where Is The Green Parrot? (Pieces, Recordings & In Betweens) ReR Megacorp RER PC1 (distrib by Cuneiform Wayside) Jacques Lejeune Messe Aux Oiseaux (Bird Mass) GMVL (Groupe Musiques Vivantes Lyon) CD06 (distrib by Anomalous) One division electo-acoustic recordings has been to take field recordings an= d=20 process them, as exemplified by such masterworks as FranciscoLopez=92 use of= =20 insects in Addy and the Locusts on ND. Cusack uses a variant tack here, for= =20 the most part, combining straight or doped-up field recordings with the=20 audio-travelogue genre. It opens with the two-minute =93Echo Location,=94 a= =20 barking or houghing sound soon overlaid with an electronic ratchet, ending=20 with a bizarre echo that leaves your speakers sharp left and sharp right. =20 Indeed, these are not processed but the call of a roe deer and 2 a.m.=20 nightjars. I=92ve always wondered what nightjars sounded like since Elton=20 John=92s =93Come Down In Time=94: =93A cluster of nightjars sang some songs=20= out of=20 tune.=94 The 25 minute suite =93Where Is The Green Parrot=94 opens with bouzouki, qui= te=20 beautifully played; then enter the birds. Woodlarks and seabirds are=20 combined with =94live controlled tapes and sampled sounds.=94 The choice an= d=20 flow of the various sounds are quite moving, an overhead airplane comes as a= =20 surprise, and the final section, =93pets (Talking to the Animals)=94 has a m= ale=20 voice exhorting some birds to talk, saying =93Go on,=94 and =93That=92s very= nice.=94 =20 As these are mimicking birds, is it the birds speaking or a human? =93Two Boys Going Shopping=94 will be found either charming or self-indulgen= t, a=20 fifteen minute excursion by Cusack pere et fils, four years old, in a toy=20 shop, travel agency and guitar shop. Their chat is punctuated by the sounds= =20 you=92d expect. The disc closes with five stunning segued pieces, assumedly= =20 straight field recordings, using a metal gangplank dragged across a stone=20 dock, kids playing in an underground tunnel, factory sirens, and the sound o= f=20 dead leaves on an oak blowing in the wind. Jacques Lejeune=92s birds fly in a totally different direction. A=20 seventy-minute electroacoustic mass, Messe Aux Oiseaux uses nearly every=20 electroacoustic device from collage to tape manipulation and fractured sound= .=20 Starting with computer-derived sounds, with birds, manipulated orchestral=20 (taken from Richard Strauss=92 =93A Heroe=92s Life), choral, and vocal sound= s. The=20 notes (French only) refer to country sounds and various human individuals an= d=20 groups: children and adults, madmen and choirs. The text of the Mass is=20 given in Latin and French, but you cannot hear to it in this composition,=20 although parts flow in and out. Naturally, there is reference to lamb in=20 Agnus Dei, but no birds. The notes say that contrary to the title, the piec= e=20 is above all concerned with the picturesque. Rain, airpanes, jaw harp,=20 choruses, electronic sounds create a mighty arc and Messe Aux Oiseaux is an=20 emotionally moving creation. (GMVL, 7 Rue du Mail, 69004 Lyons, France.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: Lou Reed MMM Date: 11 Nov 2000 14:07:26 EST you wrote: << Since this has been reissued recently, I was wondering what everyone's thoughts were on Lou Reeds stake in experimental noise............>> I haven't listened to this for ages but remember it being a pretty solid, as in unchanging, block of white noise; sadly uninteresting. now i have to find my cassette of it again in this mess.... steve koenig n.p. Yukar: The Ainu Epic Songs (King/World Music Library, Japan) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: numbats@iinet.net.au Subject: RE: hal wilner + zorn Date: 12 Nov 2000 09:18:53 +0800 Coincidentally I have a few Wilner items + Zorn items on ebay : http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=numbats - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: ostertag - sooner or later? Date: 11 Nov 2000 19:46:39 -0600 (CST) i see that bob ostertag's 'sooner or later' has been reissued on seeland. (there's a description at http://www.detritus.net/ostertag/solocd.html#sooner although it does not indicate that it has been rereleased). the comments i have seen have focused on the choice of sound source (a boy burying his father); does anyone have any comments on the music? is it worth hearing besides for its 'emotional intensity'? live long and prosper, whit - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?updated=20L=EA=20Quan=20Ninh=20US=20tour=20dates?= Date: 12 Nov 2000 03:00:54 EST here's an updated version of the L=EA Quan Ninh US tour schedule, starting=20 Monday in NYC. anyone attending the Tonic show who'd like a copy of the=20 Otomo/Voice Crack CD I'm releasing next week, I should have some for sale fo= r=20 $10, along with the recent L=EA Quan and Kelley releases, so just ask. 13 nov : New York (Tonic) with Greg Kelley and Bhob Rainey 14 nov : Annandale NY (Bard College) - solo 15 nov : Easthampton MA (Flywheel) - solo, also duos and trios with Chris=20 Cooper, Andy Crespo, Matt Weston 16 nov : Boston MA (Zeitgeist Gallery) with David Gross 18 nov : Pittsburgh PA (Millvale Industrial Theater) - solo 21 nov : Detroit MI (Entropy Studios) with Mike Khoury and Ben Bracken 22 nov : Toronto (The NOW Lounge) with Maury Coles, Arnd Jurgensen and Tomas= z=20 Krakowiak 24 nov : Chicago IL (Lampo) with Guillermo Gregorio 25 nov : Madison WI (Wendy Cooper Gallery) with Scott Fields 26 nov : Minneapolis MN (Gus Lucky's) - solo 29 nov : Denver CO (Museum of Contemporary Art) - with Jack Wright 30 nov/1 dec : Colorado Springs CO (Colorado College) - solo 2 dec : Albuquerque NM (The Outpost) - solo and with J.A. Deane 9 dec : San Diego CA (Spruce Street Forum) - solo Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Parmegiani/Ferrari Date: 12 Nov 2000 11:27:47 EST anyone who missed them the first time around should be excited to hear that INA-GRM is re-reissuing what might be the three best discs in their catalog, Parmegiani's De Natura Sonorum and La Creation Du Monde and Ferrari's Presque Rien. http://www.electrocd.com/cd/nouveautes_e.html Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: parmegiani & ferrari: back in print Date: 12 Nov 2000 10:06:43 -0800 (PST) Thanks to a couple thoughtful posts on another list, I've learned that INA-GRM will be bringing Bernard Parmegiani's DE NATURA SONORUM and LA CREATION DU MONDE back into print, as well as the INA-GRM edition of Luc Ferrari's PRESQUE RIEN. I bring this up becuase just last night I was glancing back over an initial thread on performance and electroacoustic music (Zorn-list archives, August 1999), and these out of print gems keep surfacing in "essentials" lists for electroacoustic music. Just thought the list would be interested. ----s, rubbing hands in glee Oh, BTW, the link: http://www.electrocd.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chris Hodge Subject: Re: hal wilner's Indian Date: 12 Nov 2000 13:40:31 -0500 (EST) I got my copy of Whoops I'm an Indian through CDNow. http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=1228822884/pagename=/RP/CDN/FIND/album.html/ArtistID=WILLNER*HAL/DDCN=MSI-M120867 It's listed as an import for 26.99; also took a while to get. I especially liked What a Friend We Have in Jesus Revisited. I'd be happy to xerox and send the liner notes to anyone who wnats them. My first Wilner album was the Disney collection, which I am very fond of. One of my current favorite Wilner albums is Closed on Account of Rabies: Poems and Tales of Edgar Allan Poe. Christopher Walken reads The Raven, Iggy Pop reads The Tell-Tale Heart, Diamanda Galas reads The Black Cat, Ed Sanders sings To Helen and The Haunted Palace, Jeff Buckley reads Ulalume, Deborah Harry and the Jazz Passengers perform The City and the Sea, Marianne Faithfull reads Annabel Lee and Alone, Gabriel Byrne reads The Masque of the Red Death, Gavin Friday reads For Annie, Ken Nordine reads The Conqueror Worm, and it ends with Abel Ferrara reprising The Raven. Great Halloween fun. 2 CD set. -c On Sat, 11 Nov 2000, Your Imaginary Friend wrote: > >If anyone would care to pass on info (esp. musical content and personnel > >credits) about Wilner's "solo" lp "Whoops! I'm an Indian!" I'd appreciate > >it. It it's ever been available in Canada, I've sure never seen it (not for > >wont of trying). Thanks in advance. > > _Whoops I'm an Indian_ is pure samplemania, obviously a by-product of > Willner's enormous and eclectic record collection. Hence, the handful of > folks credited on the recording are: > > HW - samples > Mocean Worker (Adam Dorn) - beats > Martin Brumbach - mix > Ralph Carney - woodwinds on 4 tracks > > The record was a motherfucker to find - I finally eyeballed a vinyl copy at > Mod Lang in Berkeley while on vacation last year, then mail-ordered the cd > from them after I got back to Oklahoma. I'd recommend trying them... > www.modlang.com (although the site hasn't been updated for a couple of > months...). > > Jon Mooneyham > > _________________________ > Radio Free Norman > 96.7 FM > http://radiofreenorman.20m.com > > > > - > Chris Hodge Coordinator, SunSITE@UTK [W] 865.974.7505 Customer Technology Support [H] 865.986.6939 Division of Information Infrastructure University of Tennessee, Knoxville [F] 865.974.2622 2339 Dunford Hall [E] hodge@ns.utk.edu Knoxville, TN 37996 USA [U] reconstructive surgery - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dan hill Subject: Re: hal wilner's Indian Date: 12 Nov 2000 19:15:20 +0000 >If anyone would care to pass on info (esp. musical content and >personnel credits) about Wilner's "solo" lp "Whoops! I'm an Indian!" >I'd appreciate it. It it's ever been available in Canada, I've sure >never seen it (not for wont of trying). Thanks in advance. it's utterly brilliant. i reviewed it for motion thusly (there's a couple of sound samples at the site too) http://motion.state51.co.uk/reviews/201.html "A truly inspired record. Hal Willner, as many readers will be aware, is something of a legend in production circles, working with luminaries such as Tom Waits, Lou Reed, Sun Ra, Henry Rollins, Gil Evans, Sonic Youth, William Burroughs, Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy, etc., and overseeing a stunning series of tribute albums. This however is his debut release. Howie B is an extraordinarily lucky chap to have this gem on his Pussyfoot label, after he encouraged Willner to lay down a couple of tracks a chance meeting. Willner, plus cohorts (Martin Brumbach and Adam Dorn on studio and beats/loops respectively, with Ralph Carney on occasional sax) returned with a whole album of the finest quality sampladelia you'll ever hear. Willner's record collection, from which this music emerges, must be truly extraordinary, the breadth of sound sources running from the earliest available popular recordings to all manner of found sounds, spoken word and nature recordings, through to contemporary classical, via American folk music of all flavours and the finest jazz, rock and funk references. Just about every other sample-based record pales into insignificance compared to this. The only things that might come close are Timet Lorenzo Brusci for the range of source material, and John Wall or DJ Shadow for the construction skills. A forerunner of this release would seem to be Willner's earlier work producing tributes to classic cartoon composers Carl Stalling and Raymond Scott. The maniacal humour, fast cuts, unpredictable pacing, riotous dance and brooding drama, the ability to veer from darkness to light swiftly and subtly. It's all here in a tour-de-force of arrangement. Willner's musical sensibilities are such that the mix is often impossibly dense yet never seems muddled or clumsy, despite incorporating what sounds like the outtakes of psychiatric hospital tests, beautifully haunting klezmer music, groovy Quincy Jones samples, religious speeches, drum 'n' bass, Jacques Arel, drill instructors, Rimsky Korsakov, free jazz, 'Home On The Range', big bands, avant-garde electronics, barber shop trios, tawny owls, and numerous isolated instrumental and vocal fragments used intelligently, funkily, dryly. A particularly smart aspect of this record is that Willner's constructed an essentially instrumental record, but using lashings of vocals. Often the world of sample-based music can be an arid, soulless place, and one is left yearning for the touchstone of the human voice. This music is built around voices - lovely looped samples of voices old and new, warm, funny, unsettling, dramatic, used as texture, melody, rhythm, harmony. I can't recommend this enough really, as you've probably guessed." hth, dan. -- ---+ dan hill [state51] ---+ new reviews on motion [12.11.2000]: < sun ra | walter ruttmann's weekend remix | john cage | cornelius cardew | merzbow | lewis taylor | albert ayler | jim black | susumu yokota | cristian vogel > http://motion.state51.co.uk/ +--- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chris Hodge Subject: Re: hal wilner's Indian Date: 12 Nov 2000 14:45:06 -0500 (EST) I think Wilner was also responsible for a short-lived Saturday Night Live spinoff called Sunday Morning Live, or something like that. Came on in the wee hours of Sunday morning, hosted by David Samborn as I recall. I can remember (I think) Todd Rungren, Sonny Rollins and Leonard Cohen doing The Pirates of Penzance. Also, Sun Ra discussing dropping acid with Samborn. I wonder if tapes of those shows even exist anymore? On Sun, 12 Nov 2000, dan hill wrote: > >If anyone would care to pass on info (esp. musical content and > >personnel credits) about Wilner's "solo" lp "Whoops! I'm an Indian!" > >I'd appreciate it. It it's ever been available in Canada, I've sure > >never seen it (not for wont of trying). Thanks in advance. > > > it's utterly brilliant. > > i reviewed it for motion thusly (there's a couple of sound samples at > the site too) > http://motion.state51.co.uk/reviews/201.html > > "A truly inspired record. Hal Willner, as many readers will be aware, > is something of a legend in production circles, working with > luminaries such as Tom Waits, Lou Reed, Sun Ra, Henry Rollins, Gil > Evans, Sonic Youth, William Burroughs, Disposable Heroes of > Hiphoprisy, etc., and overseeing a stunning series of tribute albums. > This however is his debut release. Howie B is an extraordinarily > lucky chap to have this gem on his Pussyfoot label, after he > encouraged Willner to lay down a couple of tracks a chance meeting. > Willner, plus cohorts (Martin Brumbach and Adam Dorn on studio and > beats/loops respectively, with Ralph Carney on occasional sax) > returned with a whole album of the finest quality sampladelia you'll > ever hear. Willner's record collection, from which this music > emerges, must be truly extraordinary, the breadth of sound sources > running from the earliest available popular recordings to all manner > of found sounds, spoken word and nature recordings, through to > contemporary classical, via American folk music of all flavours and > the finest jazz, rock and funk references. Just about every other > sample-based record pales into insignificance compared to this. The > only things that might come close are Timet Lorenzo Brusci for the > range of source material, and John Wall or DJ Shadow for the > construction skills. A forerunner of this release would seem to be > Willner's earlier work producing tributes to classic cartoon > composers Carl Stalling and Raymond Scott. The maniacal humour, fast > cuts, unpredictable pacing, riotous dance and brooding drama, the > ability to veer from darkness to light swiftly and subtly. It's all > here in a tour-de-force of arrangement. Willner's musical > sensibilities are such that the mix is often impossibly dense yet > never seems muddled or clumsy, despite incorporating what sounds like > the outtakes of psychiatric hospital tests, beautifully haunting > klezmer music, groovy Quincy Jones samples, religious speeches, drum > 'n' bass, Jacques Arel, drill instructors, Rimsky Korsakov, free > jazz, 'Home On The Range', big bands, avant-garde electronics, barber > shop trios, tawny owls, and numerous isolated instrumental and vocal > fragments used intelligently, funkily, dryly. A particularly smart > aspect of this record is that Willner's constructed an essentially > instrumental record, but using lashings of vocals. Often the world of > sample-based music can be an arid, soulless place, and one is left > yearning for the touchstone of the human voice. This music is built > around voices - lovely looped samples of voices old and new, warm, > funny, unsettling, dramatic, used as texture, melody, rhythm, > harmony. I can't recommend this enough really, as you've probably > guessed." > > hth, > dan. > > > > -- > ---+ dan hill [state51] > ---+ new reviews on motion [12.11.2000]: > < sun ra | walter ruttmann's weekend remix | john cage | cornelius > cardew | merzbow | lewis taylor | albert ayler | jim black | susumu > yokota | cristian vogel > > http://motion.state51.co.uk/ +--- > > - > Chris Hodge Coordinator, SunSITE@UTK [W] 865.974.7505 Customer Technology Support [H] 865.986.6939 Division of Information Infrastructure University of Tennessee, Knoxville [F] 865.974.2622 2339 Dunford Hall [E] hodge@ns.utk.edu Knoxville, TN 37996 USA [U] reconstructive surgery - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fag music" Subject: John Cage,not Mortal Kombat Date: 12 Nov 2000 11:52:43 -0800 Ok, I'm relatively new to this list,so there's a lot of stuff I'm not familiar into,so let's go piece by piece(wow,that's a Slayer tune,aaaaaah I'm so smart).Ahem...who's this John Cage guy?Is he a musician?Is he a poet?Is he a prolific guy?I'd like some comments on him,also some good stuff to hear from him.Anyone? Avakians, Liu Kang How do you spell EMAIL? You @ 37.com - The world's easiest free Email address Get your free email at: http://email.37.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BlackBook78@aol.com Subject: Re: John Cage,not Mortal Kombat Date: 12 Nov 2000 15:04:12 EST --part1_96.c1b09b3.274051bc_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/12/2000 11:53:28 AM Pacific Standard Time, pattonsucks@37.com writes: > Ok, > I'm relatively new to this list,so there's a lot of stuff I'm not > familiar into,so let's go piece by piece(wow,that's a Slayer tune,aaaaaah > I'm so smart).Ahem...who's this John Cage guy?Is he a musician?Is he a > poet?Is he a prolific guy?I'd like some comments on him,also some good > stuff to hear from him.Anyone? > Avakians, > Liu Kang > > > > > > Prepare to, like me, include a small notebook while reading this list. I jot down at least 3 or 4 names, and am eternally grateful for everyones interesting contributions. I live in an area where only mainstream artists are appreciated (who doesn't these days though?) I'm still working on my Cage collection so there isn't much I could tell you, though I greatly admire Yoko Ono, who has been largely influenced by him. --part1_96.c1b09b3.274051bc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/12/2000 11:53:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,
pattonsucks@37.com writes:


Ok,
  I'm relatively new to this list,so there's a lot of stuff I'm not
familiar into,so let's go piece by piece(wow,that's a Slayer tune,aaaaaah
I'm so smart).Ahem...who's this John Cage guy?Is he a musician?Is he a
poet?Is he a prolific guy?I'd like some comments on him,also some good
stuff to hear from him.Anyone?
Avakians,
Liu Kang







Prepare to, like me, include a small notebook while reading this list.  I jot
down at least 3 or 4 names, and am eternally grateful for everyones
interesting contributions.  I live in an area where only mainstream artists
are appreciated (who doesn't these days though?)  I'm still working on my
Cage collection so there isn't much I could tell you, though I greatly admire
Yoko Ono, who has been largely influenced by him. --part1_96.c1b09b3.274051bc_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: John Cage,not Mortal Kombat Date: 12 Nov 2000 12:05:20 -0800 Go here and insert John Cage. You'll have all the info you could ask for: http://www.dogpile.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: New Variations ? Date: 12 Nov 2000 20:31:27 GMT Talking about variations.... has anybody heard Dave Lombardos "Vivaldi" CD? Seems like a bizarre idea. But so was sitar-rock in the 60s, I guess, and I can't get enough of that stuff :-) ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eisenbeil@aol.com Subject: NYC Concert on Tuesday Date: 12 Nov 2000 17:01:52 EST JIM RYAN'S FORWARD ENERGY:=20 NEW YORK EDITION with: Jim Ryan - reeds/poetry Dave Sewelson -baritone sax Bruce Eisenbeil - guitar Matt Heyner - bass DeePop - drums This band will be performing at THE INTERNET CAF=C9 in New York City on=20 Tuesday, November 14 @ 9pm for 2 sets 'Forward Energy' makes good on its name by sustaining a compelling momentum=20 while tearing through the boundries commonly constraining mainstream jazz=20 ensembles."=20 Derk Richardson, East Bay Express The Internet Caf=E9 is located at 82 east 3rd St. (between 1st & 2nd Ave) i= n =20 New York City. The telephone number is 212-614-0747 and convenient public=20 transportation is available : F train to second Ave or the J, M, Z to Essex= =20 then F train to second Ave . There is a $6 cover. This is the band's final appearance in New York City for quite a while. We= =20 hope to see you there. For more info see: www.eisenbeil.com Since the mid-90s Jim Ryan has been living in Oakland, California and workin= g=20 with his group Forward Energy. He is deeply involved in the Bay area improv= =20 scene, at all levels. Besides leading his own band, he is involved with=20 booking several venues and publishing a zine, 'OUTSIDE', devoted to the=20 music. Last summer he was involved in bringing Alan Silva to the bay area,= =20 and performed with him in the concert held at the Luggage Store Gallery in=20 San Francisco. He has two CDs out:"Forward Energy atThe Yellow Room," and=20 "Triptych". Jim Ryan was born in St. Paul, Minnesota and graduated from the University o= f=20 Minnesota in philosphy. He began listening to bebop at about age 15 and took= =20 up the trombone but was forced to abandon it about a year later when his=20 parents sent him to work in an electrode factory in North Carolina. Nearing=20 his mid-30's and living in Paris, France he picked up the flute in about '68= =20 and shortly thereafter acquired a c-melody sax. In the early 70's he=20 participated in a year-long workshop organized and led by Steve Lacy.=20 Jim formed the "Free Music Formation" about this time, and played in Paris=20 and other European cities. He returned to the States in 1975 and settled in=20 Washington D.C. where he formed the Art Performance Group in 1979. Throughout October and November Jim Ryan is on tour and he comes to NYC on=20 the heels of some high profile gigs in Chicago. Come on out to hear and=20 support an experienced improvisor.=20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Night Music (was Re: hal wilner's Indian) Date: 12 Nov 2000 17:29:59 -0500 Chris Hodge wrote: > I think Wilner was also responsible for a short-lived Saturday Night Live > spinoff called Sunday Morning Live, or something like that. Came on in the > wee hours of Sunday morning, hosted by David Samborn as I recall. I can > remember (I think) Todd Rungren, Sonny Rollins and Leonard Cohen doing The > Pirates of Penzance. Also, Sun Ra discussing dropping acid with Samborn. I > wonder if tapes of those shows even exist anymore? In brief, because we went over this at great length here on the Zornlist a couple of months ago... David Sanborn was the host of Hal Willner's television show, originally called 'Sunday Night' and later 'Night Music.' Jools Holland was the original co-host, but didn't last long because his British wit did't play well to American audiences. "Comedian" Kevin Meaney was responsible for some spectacularly unfunny bits and skits for a while, as well. The series only lasted two or three seasons, but in those seasons we got a dazzling array of musical talent and a bewildering display of artistic combinations, as well as some pretty brilliant archival film footage of past stars. The Gilbert and Sullivan bit you reference was Todd Rundrgren, Ellen Foley, Taj Mahal, Pat Metheny, Christian Marclay and Sanborn and the Night Music band - all in costume! - in a scene from 'HMS Pinafore.' Rollins and Cohen appeared on another episode. I don't know if any of this material was issued commerically on tape at any point (some of it certainly should be!), but I think my tattered old VHS collection is virtually complete, thanks to a timer on my recorder (it aired at 3 a.m. on weeknights in Houston). And sorry, everyone, I don't have any way to make copies from my tatty old collection. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Jim Black, "Boombye," 'Alasnoaxis' (Winter & Winter) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: John Cage,not Mortal Kombat Date: 12 Nov 2000 14:47:18 -0800 Fag music wrote: >=20 > Ahem...who's this John Cage guy?Is he a musician?Is he a poet?Is he a p= rolific > guy? Yes. Also visual artist. Philosopher. Um, he's the guy who changed 20th Century music, possibly the most influe= ntial American composer ever, as much for his theoretical writing as for his half-century-plus' worth of music. You'll want to read his first major bo= ok, _Silence_ (Wesleyan Press IIRC, eternally in print) at least, as it's the= best introduction to what's going on in his work, *and* it's a book that has c= hanged many, many people's careers (I had it as assigned reading in at least thr= ee classes in the course of getting my ahrt degrees), in more media than jus= t "serious music". There's a daunting amount of stuff to choose from, and I imagine everyone= 's list would be different, but I'll take a stab at an "introductory buy", which = will give an idea of the range of work with no intention of being "definitive"= : _Three2/Twenty-Three/Six/Twenty-Six_ -- Recent recordings of some of his = last pieces, two for percussion and two for string ensemble. The latter are particularly striking, dense drone excursions (which are at the far extre= me from the sparse, pointillistic work many of us who came up in the 70s first associated with him) reminiscent at times of Scelsi's orchestral work. Ca= n't stop playing this. Hard to find in stores but I got mine from Amazon. You'll want some of the prepared piano work -- I won't authoritatively st= ate that he was the first to stick hardware between the piano strings, but he= has a major, coherent body of work using it, the best dating from the 40s. Pret= ty much any recording of _Sonatas and Interludes_ will do you for starters (there= 's a bunch; you'll wind up wanting another one anyway ;^>). In Cage's hands, t= he prepared piano basically sounds like a one-man gamelan orchestra, effecti= vely foregrounding the piano's status as a percussion instrument. You can hear= it in this context, along with some striking (no pun intended) percussion writi= ng in the _First Construction in Metal_ (I'm particularly fond of the Tomato re= cording that collects all three Constructions with two songs interspersed). _Indeterminacy_ -- Cage reads the text (reproduced in _Silence_) against = a dense electronic background (realized by David Tudor). I'd strongly recommend one of the pieces derived from star maps -- _Freem= an Etudes_, _Atlas Eclipticalis_, _Etudes Borealis_. Particular recommendati= on for the Mode 2xLP of _Etudes Borealis_ + _Ryoanji_, especially if you're inte= rested in the more recent work from AMM and related artists, which is sadly out = of print ... oh wait, there's a new recording of _Borealis_ available on Etc= etera which also includes _26'1.1499 for a String Player_, which will also give= you a sample of Cage's use of broadcast radio as chance sound source. _Roaratorio_ -- massive, dense work for multi-channel tape (there was jus= t an 8-channel performance in SF recently) based on _Finnegans Wake_, includin= g lots of concr=E9te, reading, singing, the Chieftains drifting thru the mix, et= c. A good intro to the "MusiCircus" concepts of the last couple decades, recommende= d if you're into Zorn's denser "collisional" works. _Cartridge Music_ -- a 1960 work using phonograph cartridges as contact microphones/instruments. Need I say more? A version featuring David Tudor= and Takehisa Kosugi is theoretically in print from Mode. Oh, and maybe thirty more ... --=20 - Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.co= m "The novelist should be at least as generous as God." -- William Vollman np: Stone Breath, _Lanterna Lucis Viriditatis_ nr: Wm. Jay Smith, _The Spectra Hoax_ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: Night Music (was Re: hal wilner's Indian) Date: 12 Nov 2000 17:43:54 -0500 on 00.11.12 17:29, Steve Smith at ssmith36@sprynet.com wrote: > And sorry, everyone, I don't have any > way to make copies from my tatty old collection. As if you shouldn't go right out and buy another VCR for us... why we oughta, RL ---------- Sessionographies: CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies: COURVOISIER; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN. --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things-- Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k UPDATE *June 25*, 2000: Vids, a few CDs, baseball books, misc. ***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: John Cage,not Mortal Kombat Date: 13 Nov 2000 10:31:21 +1100 It should be pointed out that Cage (probably more than other music) is not everyone's cup of tea... So while you've been recommended a bunch of works to listen to, you might buy a couple and soon want to kill the guy who recommended them (insert smiley face here). I studied Cage at school, and certainly appreciated things that he was doing as clever but I don't think I ever said "I really like this piece!"... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nirav Soni" Subject: Re: John Cage,not Mortal Kombat Date: 12 Nov 2000 18:40:15 -0500 So while you've been recommended a bunch of works > to listen to, you might buy a couple and soon want to kill the guy who > recommended them (insert smiley face here). I studied Cage at school, and > certainly appreciated things that he was doing as clever but I don't think I > ever said "I really like this piece!"... You know, I hear that alot, but of the few things I've heard from him (the recent Atlas Eclipticalis & Winter Music/103 box on Asphodel, Williams mix, One^5 , the Sonic Youth tribute stuff a few Variations) I've really enjoyed. I haven't approached his music in an academic context, but it's enjoyable enough in it's own right IMHO. The One^5 interpreted by Louis Goldstein is especially pretty. Just my two cents. Cheers, Nirav AIM: Icefactory37 -- OnNow- John Watermann- Ilusions of Infinite Bliss NR- _The Recogntions_- William Gaddis (god, it's so good, much better than _The Wind-Up Bird Chronicles_ [which is the only recommendation from this list that I haven't liked) "Don't try to make me consistent. I am learning all the time." - R. Buckminster Fuller - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: John Cage,not Mortal Kombat Date: 12 Nov 2000 18:54:02 -0500 On Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 11:52:43AM -0800, Fag music wrote: > Ok, > I'm relatively new to this list,so there's a lot of stuff I'm not familiar into,so let's go piece by piece(wow,that's a Slayer tune,aaaaaah I'm so smart).Ahem...who's this John Cage guy?Is he a musician?Is he a poet?Is he a prolific guy?I'd like some comments on him,also some good stuff to hear from him.Anyone? Uh, gee, what could I say? Cage was indeed a musician, poet, graphic artist, creator of theatre, macrobiotic chef, etc. He was responsible for some of the essential breakthroughs of 20th Century music, including the use of "non-musical" "noise" in music, and the appreciation of the sounds of one's own environment as music. (In the Cagean viewpoint, "music" is not so much a way of creating sound as a way of listening to it.) Where to start in listening to his work depends on what you already enjoy. I often recommend his piano pieces or string quartets to those coming from a classical background. OTOH, a friend who is into noise and ambience got turned on to him through his piece "Five Stone Wind". Speaking for my own tastes, I find I listen most to "Singing Through" (an album of his vocal works by Joan LaBarbara), the Wergo recordings of Song Books and Empty Words, and his Roaratorio. Cage himself didn't listen to recordings much, though he came to appreciate them as documentation. I greatly enjoy performing his vocal pieces. Some of his works are sufficiently clear and open that even those not trained as musicians can easily perform them, once they understand the mindset. Of course, I invite all those interested in Cage to check out Silence, the Cage mailing list. You can find how to subscribe and a link to the archives from http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/ -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: John Cage,not Mortal Kombat Date: 12 Nov 2000 19:07:57 -0500 On Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 10:31:21AM +1100, Julian wrote: > It should be pointed out that Cage (probably more than other music) is not > everyone's cup of tea... So while you've been recommended a bunch of works > to listen to, you might buy a couple and soon want to kill the guy who > recommended them (insert smiley face here). I studied Cage at school, and > certainly appreciated things that he was doing as clever but I don't think I > ever said "I really like this piece!"... OTOH, my exposure to Cage was a series of "Wow, what is that wonderful sound?!" experiences, followed up by discovering how they were made. I dunno that Cage would be less the general cup of tea than other music. I suspect that more people, given the choice, would listen to Cage than to Merzbow :-) -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: John Cage,not Mortal Kombat Date: 12 Nov 2000 17:03:30 -0800 >>>but I don't think I ever said "I really like this piece!"...<<< _Music For Prpeared Piano_ _Indeterminacy_ I REALLY REALLY REALLY like those pieces and listen to them over and over and over......... Also the Cage video in Peter Greenaway's Four Composers videos is essential viewing. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: John Cage,not Mortal Kombat Date: 13 Nov 2000 12:10:06 +1100 > I REALLY REALLY REALLY like those pieces and listen to them over and > over and over......... What I was saying was my opinion, just because you have a differing one it doesn't affect mine. I just think it is important that someone who is new to Cage is warned not to madly buy everything people tell him to, because he may be disappointed, that's all... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: John Cage,not Mortal Kombat Date: 12 Nov 2000 17:46:14 -0800 >>>NR- _The Recogntions_- William Gaddis (god, it's so good....) My favorite novel. Still slowly savoring my way through it. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fag music" Subject: Finish him with a smile Date: 12 Nov 2000 18:10:09 -0800 Thanks a lot, guys.The amount of John Cage comments really helped me to start looking for it.I'll try and find some of his recommended stuff.By the way,I've been trying to find the Nani Nani album,if anyone has it and wants to trade via icq,my uin is 38973178,we'll set sumthin' up.Also,I'd like to know some good albums that had Yamatsuka(Yamataka?Kill me,I'm dumb) Eye.I know he sang on Naked city and for Boredoms,but I guess there's more...who sang Zorn's Bikini atoll and Bone crusher????I assume it was him,given the similarity....so,anyone???? Screams, Third Eye How do you spell EMAIL? You @ 37.com - The world's easiest free Email address Get your free email at: http://email.37.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grey ElkGel Subject: Re: Häpna Date: 12 Nov 2000 21:44:20 -0800 (PST) > the european free improvisation page lists a new > swedish label, hapna. does anyone know if these are > distributed in the us? also, has anyone heard the > rudiger carl/sven-ake johansson disc?? häpna's first release was a fantastic CD of field recordings by toshiya tsunoda (extract from field recording archives #2) which is highly recommended. it's available through anomalous in the u.s. (www.anomalousrecords.com) the rudiger carl/sven-ake johansson CD and a solo CD by swedish guitarist david stackenäs are just out, so hopefully they'll end up on the anomalous site soon. i just heard bits of both carl/johansson and the stackenäs CDs tonight and they both sound very good. what i heard of the carl/johansson CD featured fractured dual accordion improv w/ carl's trademark discombobulatory (perhaps not a real word?) sense/sense of humor. johansson plays drums and sings elsewhere on the disc, but i didn't hear any of that - but he's a great drummer, so i'm sure that doesn't affect things at all negatively. and carl pulls out the clarinet which i didn't hear either, but the above comment goes for that as well. the stackenäs sounded really good, too. acoustic guitar improvisations in a definite post-bailey sound world. also very fractured, precise and energetic. worth checking out i think. this may be his first recording. (oh yeah, it's well titled too: the name of the CD is "the guitar" and one of the tracks is called "happy guitar" or somesuch.) also, the packaging is great: nice paper folded in half in a plastic slipcase, great hard-to-read-but-nice-to-look-at handwritten liner info and nice artwork: the tsunoda and carl/johansson CDs both feature drawings perhaps done by the person w/ the nice handwriting and the stackenäs has a strange gnome w/ spaghetti coming out of his mouth. anyway, looks like a great label thus far. i'm anxious to get my own copies of the new releases and to see what they've got in store. check out www.hapna.com -greg __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: A Fine Line Date: 13 Nov 2000 01:42:21 EST Just bought Don Byron's new disc of the same title. Wodering what other people's thoughts were on it. Personally, I think it's one of his weaker ones -- so far. With a musician like Don, there might be something you don't get the first time around. Then again, I said that about NU BLAXPLOITATION, and it hasn't really come up in my estimation. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Bill Dixon Date: 13 Nov 2000 02:21:12 EST I'm really, really enjoying the new Bill Dixon on FMP, Berlin Abbozzi. it's a quartet from 11/99, Dixon, Klaus Koch and Matthias Bauer both on double basses, and Tony Oxley on drums. it's a shame that Dixon's work over the past decade hasn't received more recognition. I think there's an interesting parallel to be drawn between this stretch of his work and the Giuffre/Bley/Swallow discs from the early sixties. in this parallel, Dixon's two Vade Mecum records would be the rough equivalent of Fusion and Thesis, beautiful free chamber jazz with an edge, and the new FMP would be Free Fall, an attempt to stretch the formula farther out, more raucous and exploring. anyway, I'm a big fan of all six of these CDs. I'd go so far as to call all of them pretty darned essential. I think Dixon's duo CDs with Oxley from earlier this year, Papyrus, volumes 1 and 2, are less successful and I'm not exactly sure why. Volume 2 especially does very little for me, it feels like somehow all the magic has been drained away. anyone else feel the same or differently? Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeroen de Boer" Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #159 Date: 13 Nov 2000 15:12:51 GMT+0100 Yes, and Brain is the new G'n'R drummer.. > .is there any truth to the rumor that buckethead is the new guitar player for > guns n roses ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? > > - > Jeroen de Boer music director Open Electronic Festival/Cyberslag Foundation Munnekeholm 10, 9711JA Groningen The Netherlands tel/fax: +31 (0)503634676/(0)503632209 gsm: +31 (0)624814506 usva-th2@bureau.rug.nl http://www.cyberslag.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Alley Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #162 Date: 13 Nov 2000 00:26:50 -0600 Does anyone out there know where I can get some videos of Masada and/or Dave Douglas? Thanks, Rob Alley ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: ostertag and cage Date: 13 Nov 2000 10:47:21 -0500 oops -- deleted the msg about the ostertag reissue -- the one built on samples of a boy crying as shovels dig the grave for his father in el salvador (slightly different than the original description). i had it, listened to it once, thought it brilliantly executed and utterly wrenching, and sold it hoping to never hear it again. it's not especially 'musical,' and it's emotionally pretty tough going (was for me, anyway). so, think twice, i guess. and if you don't have any ostertag, don't start there. (don't start with 'fear no love,' either.) the 'say no more' series is the most enjoyable of what i've heard. nice comments re cage. i really like him, and think his contributions as a philosopher of aesthetics by far outpace any of his other work. kg np: archie shepp - attica blues note to new yorkers: 12th street books, a relatively new bookstore west of university place, has a fair bit of old vinyl generally priced between 2 and 4 $s. nothing too outside when i was there yesterday, but some carla bley, andrew hill, lots of older stuff (basie, roach). a miles davis 10-inch on prestige for $10, too. and, more to their point i'd guess, it's quite a nice bookstore. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Diego Gruber" Subject: Charms in Vienna/Fennesz vs. Krakauer Date: 13 Nov 2000 17:59:32 +0100 Zornlisters, Being with my hands full the last days, it's been some time already since I saw Dave Douglas and Charms of the Night Sky here in Vienna, but I didn't want to miss the opportunity to write about my first live experience on the music discussed on this list. the concert took place on a wonderful venue, the Wiener Konzerthaus, and i had a very good seat, having gotten there early. I was pretty curious to see the rhythmic section going on without a drummer. there was some kind of special symbiosis going on on that stage, especially between guy and dave. he looked so inspired from his own music and delighted to hear the other musicians performing it. i need not say how great they are since you've seen them yourselves. the playlist had everything, from long, sentimental pieces, to crazy east european stuff, to noises coming out of disassembled instruments, coughs, and hitting the chairs against the floor. more than once did they provoked a good intended laugh. they came out twice for an encore, which was pretty neat, the crowd applauded for quite a long time every time they left the stage, and i think the vienna crowds must be demanding. i think most of the tunes they played wil be featured on a new record coming soon, that will be called 'a thousand evenings', so I'm really looking forward to that. One of the pieces was said to be performed regularly for a dance ensemble, and other one was dedicated to a Russian composer who emigrated to America and was one of the pioneers of Klezmer (according to Douglas this man hated to be called a klezmer musician, as it had a demeritorial meaning back then, so we should just call hima wonderful musician). His name was David Tarre or something like that, couldn't pick it up really. Does anyone know something about this composer? Coming weekend there are two interesting performances from artists i've only heard mentioned here. Fennesz and David Krakauer. I know they are way different and perhaps not comparable performances, but I'd like to know what to expect from them cause maybe I'll have to pick between just one of them. The Fennesz performance (together with Radian) will apparently include visuals and is called "Music for 17 Loudspeakers", which sounds intriguing. But I'm definitely more familiar with klezmer thanks to Masada. Cheers, D. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Diego Gruber" Subject: question Date: 13 Nov 2000 18:12:25 +0100 Does a piece for prepared piano, in its written form, explain how the piano must be "prepared"? Or does the artist prepare the piano his own way and therefore the piece will sound different depending on what the artist put in there? D. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: question Date: 13 Nov 2000 09:13:05 -0800 On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 18:12:25 +0100 "Diego Gruber" wrote: > > Does a piece for prepared piano, in its written form, explain how the piano > must be "prepared"? Or does the artist prepare the piano his own way and > therefore the piece will sound different depending on what the artist put in > there? Check out Michael Nyman's book on experimental music for a photograph of Cage's details on how to prepare a piano. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: question Date: 13 Nov 2000 11:32:23 -0500 On Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 06:12:25PM +0100, Diego Gruber wrote: > Does a piece for prepared piano, in its written form, explain how the piano > must be "prepared"? Or does the artist prepare the piano his own way and > therefore the piece will sound different depending on what the artist put in > there? Cage's scores explain the preparations in fine detail. There's still some range of difference due to the physical aspects of the various pianos and materials, but it's pretty clear what's meant. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: RE: question Date: 13 Nov 2000 10:29:20 -0700 >Does a piece for prepared piano, in its written form, explain how the >piano >must be "prepared"? The only prepared piano material I've ever learned to the point of relative performance is Cage's "perilous night." I had quite a bit of dificulty deciding exactly what he wanted. He specified only "bolt and nut" or "rubber" with no indication of size or type. He does specify between which strings of each unison, however, the lenghts from the dampers are subject to complete error as the distances are different on every piano (in other words it's very difficult to tell which partials he wants). There is a great text called "the well prepared piano" (by Bunger I belive) which is unfortunately OOP as far as I know. I found a copy in our library but without that I would've had very great difficulty preparing the piano in a semi acceptable manner. In other words if Cage wanted specific sounds to be the same performance after performance then he surely didn't give explicit enough directions IMO. Matt Wirzbicki - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: Otomo Yoshihide/Ground-Zero Date: 13 Nov 2000 20:40:24 GMT Hello, >1) Ground Zero. (snip) but you can't really go wrong, >except for the Cassiber remix disc. I don't really know about that. Like Jon said, the Ground Zero CDs are extremely different. From the "Last Concert" CD which is probably *the* most intense unlistnable noise CD I have ever heard, to "Null & Void" which has some really beautiful quiet parts, or the minimalist "Consume Red" to the ultra eclectic genre marathon "Plays Standarts" My personal favorite is "Plays Standarts". I guess this is concidered extremely old fashioned by now by most of you, but I really love those tunes. It features only covers of many, many different types of music. All brilliantly arranged and SUPERBLY played. I don't think there has been an album so (succesfully) varried since the first Naked City CD. Also, this is my recommendation as a good place to begin, since it has alot of different styles, including some which are in main focus on some of the other Ground Zero CDs. >2) his pre-1998 plunderphonic style turntable work. (snip) he doesn't > >perform in this style anymore, Not at all? What about when improvising? I heard that he would play with the great great drummer Han Bennink later this year. I can't imagine Han playing along sinewave tones!! But then again, you can never know with Han... Related question: Does Otomo still performe with Yamataka Eye? >reportedly not thrilled about Asphodel's recent release of a duo record >with >Christian Marclay which they'd been holding onto for a few years. Strange. The stuff I heard from it is among his best. >3) his current fascination with wave-based minimal electronics. Will this never end? I actually thought this scene was more or less dead by now. How much more to be said with only sinewaves? Seems everyone and his mother is doing this stuff with their powerbooks, these days... >his best work yet in this >vein may be on the brand new Otomo Yoshihide/Voice Crack-Bits, Bots and >Signs, Still, I have to admit, this does sound very interesting! ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Fennesz vs. Krakauer Date: 13 Nov 2000 16:31:56 -0500 > Coming weekend there are two interesting performances from artists i've only > heard mentioned here. Fennesz and David Krakauer. I know they are way > different and perhaps not comparable performances, but I'd like to know what > to expect from them cause maybe I'll have to pick between just one of them. > The Fennesz performance (together with Radian) will apparently include > visuals and is called "Music for 17 Loudspeakers", which sounds intriguing. Go, go, go! Fennesz is one of the very best of the recent young computer musicians, and everything I've heard by him is great. He's been particularly adept at melding noise with melodic or at least harmonic material (chords), so don't be scared off if you're expecting an inhospitable wall of noise. He also has a couple of recent live CD's out (neither of which I've yet heard unfortunately) that have been getting very good reviews, so I think he'll be a good bet. Radian is also quite great. They're a bass/drum/synth trio who play a kind of mixture of scaled-back Mego-style sine-tones and noise atop an almost robotic syncopated back-beat. That may sound boring, but it's surprisingly effective. They're really masterful at switching textures and building tension just by having the bass and drums drop out and return or by slowly shifting the synth tones. Their fist EP is live too, so you can definitely expect them to be rewarding outside the studio. So, yeah, go to the show. -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fag music" Subject: Boredoms, not a burden Date: 13 Nov 2000 13:34:17 -0800 Thanks, guys.The recommendations for John Cage will help me getting into this stuff.Right then,I wanna know:besides lead singing for Boredoms,does Yamatsuka/Yamatanka/Yamataka(kill me,for I dunno which one of these guys actually exist)Eye have another stuff out?I know he hangs around a lot with Zorn,and I just listened to their their album called Nani nani,it is great.But I wanna know:does anyone have a commented discography of him,or something????Is there actually a solo Eye album,like Adult themes for voice,for example???I'd like to hear some comments on it.So,anyone???? Screams, I know what you did last summer How do you spell EMAIL? You @ 37.com - The world's easiest free Email address Get your free email at: http://email.37.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chris Westphal Subject: Re: Boredoms, not a burden Date: 12 Nov 2000 13:46:56 -0800 eYe has a side project called Audiosports that is Japanese hip hop. Highly recommended if you like hip hop. This is a more subdued eYe from a vocal standpoint but creatively still as exciting. He also has quite a few other side projects (as do the other Boredoms) but I haven't checked any of them out. (c) At 01:34 PM 11/13/2000 -0800, Fag music wrote: >Thanks, > guys.The recommendations for John Cage will help me getting into > this stuff.Right then,I wanna know:besides lead singing for Boredoms,does > Yamatsuka/Yamatanka/Yamataka(kill me,for I dunno which one of these guys > actually exist)Eye have another stuff out?I know he hangs around a lot > with Zorn,and I just listened to their their album called Nani nani,it is > great.But I wanna know:does anyone have a commented discography of him,or > something????Is there actually a solo Eye album,like Adult themes for > voice,for example???I'd like to hear some comments on it.So,anyone???? >Screams, >I know what you did last summer > > > >------------------------------------------------------------ >How do you spell EMAIL? You @ 37.com - The world's easiest free Email address >Get your free email at: http://email.37.com/ > > > >- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Otomo Yoshihide/Ground-Zero Date: 13 Nov 2000 17:07:46 EST not sure why you crossposted your response to the zorn-list exactly, but here goes... <> it's funny that you call Last Concert unlistenable noise and Consume Red minimalist, since the bulk of Last Concert is a live performance of Consume Red. <> yeah, this concert is on November 30 in Tokyo. Otomo is playing guitar and electronics, which I'm guessing will be the sinewave tones you don't seem too thrilled by. he has been playing more guitar also lately, including in Taku Sugimoto's guitar quartet, which is composed music and is supposedly flat out gorgeous, although I haven't heard it. as a side note, whoever on the zorn-list was drooling over the thought of Otomo's solo guitar CD-R, edition of 50, I got a copy and you're not missing too much. however, no, I'm not selling it. <> not for a while, no. <<>reportedly not thrilled about Asphodel's recent release of a duo record >with >Christian Marclay which they'd been holding onto for a few years. Strange. The stuff I heard from it is among his best.>> personally, I didn't like most of it. but whether you or I like it is pretty irrelevant, the point being that he evidently feels that it's not representative of his current work and interests. <> but how many of them are doing it well? wait until you hear the Toshimaru Nakamura/Sachiko M. CD I'll be releasing early next year. brilliant collaborative sine wave improv, with a 36 minute track centerpiece. it will melt your mind, in a good way, of course. the real question, if you ask me, is "how much more to be said with saxophones?" Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Boredoms, not a burden Date: 13 Nov 2000 17:11:35 EST In a message dated 11/13/00 4:47:52 PM, cjw@cisco.com writes: << eYe has a side project called Audiosports that is Japanese hip hop. Highly recommended if you like hip hop. This is a more subdued eYe from a vocal standpoint but creatively still as exciting. >> yes! Era of Glitterring (sic) Gas is superb proto-trip hop from 1992, with Eye rapping superbly and Nobukazu Takemura doing the beats. highly, highly recommended if you can find one. each Audio Sports release has a different lineup, and I've actually never heard any of the others, not sure why. are they as good? Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Fennesz vs. Krakauer Date: 13 Nov 2000 17:15:54 EST well, not surprisingly, I'd also vote for seeing Fennesz and Radian over David Krakauer, but I think it really depends on your own tastes. one comment though, Jesse said: << Their first EP is live too, so you can definitely expect them to be rewarding outside the studio. >> actually, they're virtually identical in concert to the studio. they don't improvise, the drummer plays with a click track. I still enjoyed seeing them live, just thought you should know. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: Fennesz vs. Krakauer Date: 13 Nov 2000 17:26:35 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- > << Their first EP is live too, so you can definitely > > expect them to be rewarding outside the studio. >> > > actually, they're virtually identical in concert to the studio. they don't > improvise, the drummer plays with a click track. I still enjoyed seeing them > live, just thought you should know. Even all the synth stuff is the same? It seems like there'd be a lot of variability there. Did you hear material from TG11? I didn't realize all of that was even reproducible live. -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: Otomo Yoshihide/Ground-Zero Date: 13 Nov 2000 17:32:40 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- > the real question, if you ask me, is "how much more to be said with > saxophones?" Oh, come now. . . -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: Boredoms, not a burden Date: 13 Nov 2000 14:31:54 -0800 (PST) On Sun, 12 Nov 2000, Chris Westphal wrote: > eYe has a side project called Audiosports that is Japanese hip hop. Highly > recommended if you like hip hop. This is a more subdued eYe from a vocal > standpoint but creatively still as exciting. He also has quite a few other > side projects (as do the other Boredoms) but I haven't checked any of them out. actually, as far as i remember, he was only on the first three audiosports records- '3-6-9', 'eat+buy+eat' and 'era of glittering glass'. i've heard eye say he was only a guest vocalist, but that might be him re-writing history... some of eye's own side projects include: dendoba (electric teeth) destroy 2 elvis dust mc hellshit and dj carhouse and of course, the pre-/post-boredoms operations of ufo or die and hanatarash. there are two compilations on a boredoms-affiliated label ummo that have a number of eye side projects, but it's difficult to tell if these are one-offs or true projects. the compilations are well worth a listen. hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ian Farrell Subject: Re: Boredoms, not a burden Date: 13 Nov 2000 17:26:06 -0500 HANATARASH: Eye(Yamatsuka/Yamatanka/Yamataka)'s total pure noise band. If like totally random noise shit this is for you. Personally one listen of each CD was enough for me. But the mythological mystique around this band and Eye's antics is very cool and superhuman. Supposedly, for one performance in a gallery, Eye rode a tractor through a wall of the gallery. UFO OR DIE: another of eye's hardcore/noiscore projects, like boredoms, but more streamlined (guitar, drums, screams). I love this shit! AUDIOSPORTS: Eye teamed up with a japanese hip-hop group. silly cool stuff. Cool to hear rhymes in japanese. Also Eye special guest screams for ten songs on a CD from called NOISE, VIOLENCE AND DESTROY by S.O.B./Hijo-Kaidan... "A live onstage collaboration between Japan's premier grindcore band and seminal noise outfit Hijokaidan. Plus Eye Yamatsuka of the Boredoms." Kicks ass. kind of sounds like early Napalm Death with a layer of crazy noise on top with Eye and someone else belting out shrieks and death metal grrrrrrrrrowls. On Alchemy Records which may be in Osaka or TOkyo, but has so much cool shit. there is probably so much more but that is what I have bought over the past ten years.... I dont remember what web site I got this list from but it is insanely complete but not very helpful since in is unreleased materail. But I thought it was a fascinating read...... **************************************************************************** GUITAR BARRIO: THE UNOFFICIAL BOREDOMS SIDE PROJECT ANTI-DISCOGRAPHY (Version 1.2) **************************************************************************** Compiled by Dave Watson of the Severed Heads Liberation Front. **************************************************************************** This list is specifically devoted to Boredoms side projects which have not officially released any recordings. If anyone wishes to supply any further information to what I have here, including the information sources and live gig info (if any), please e-mail me at aj153@freenet.carleton.ca. If recording release info is supplied, the band will be moved to the Sore Diamonds list. Thanks to Matt Kaufman of Exile Osaka (osakamm@gol.com) for laying down the cornerstone of this funky slum (the classifications are his exact quotes). I await further construction. UPDATES: Format cleaned up a little (band names now capitalized); Destroy 2 and Elvis Dust removed; Congratulation 2 added; info on Dendoba and Yamamoto Seiichi; more info on Yamamoto's projects, pitched in by Yamamoto. **************************************************************************** YAMATSUKA/YAMANTAKA EYE PROJECTS DENDOBA (Electric Teeth)--Shock Punk. Members include Yamamoto, Yoshimi, and Ohno of Solmania. A track was supposed to appear on the _The Miracle of Levitation_ compilation CD, but this didn't work out. YAMA'S--Jumping Romper Room Noise Punk with Yamamoto and Yamazaki (aka Masonna). ANARCHY 7--Record Punk. Hip hop/scratch duo with ATR of Boredoms. Opened for Disposable Heroes of Hiphopcracy in Osaka. SKY TOUCH--Influenced by Brazillian hardcore--I think. OSAKA PUNK COMBO--Telephone Punk. GOONIES--Trio made up of Eye, and members of Droop and Batties Boys. GEVA GEVA--Featured K.K. Null of Zeni Geva, Yoshida Tatsuya of Ruins, and Eye on vocals. Eye met John Zorn for the first time when Zorn jumped onstage at a show. PRESENTLY INACTIVE: ACID MAKKII & COMBI AND ZOMBIE--This band featured Yamamoto on guitar, Hira on bass, Eye on drums, and a singer named Makkii Sasara on vocals. FROGLEG EXPERIENCE & THREE SUNS OF CALIFORNIA--Eye on synthesizer, Tsuyama on bass, Chu on drums, and Yoshimi on vocals and trumpet. CONGRATULATION 2--A special version of Destroy 2 who played at Yoshimi's wedding reception. Yasushi Yoshida, vocalist of Spasmom, played drums. **************************************************************************** ** YAMAMOTO SEIICHI PROJECTS NOVO TONO--Includes Yoshihide Otomo of Ground Zero, and Phew on vocals (She recorded an album with members of Can in the early eighties). They will be releasing a CD in the near future. GUITAR BARRIO--Guitar instrumental solo unit in which (from what I understand) some sort of radio attachment is used. Only played one show. HAPPY COWBOYS--World music duo with Yoshikawa Toyohito (ex-Boredoms). KAMI (God)--Another solo unit in which Yamamoto bangs on a guitar shield attached to an amp with metal objects. THE ENBAN (U.F.O.)--Another solo unit in which Yamamoto says "Enban" once every 25 minutes. There is no music. YAMA'S (see Yamatsuka Eye) DENDOBA (see Yamatsuka Eye) HOKEKYO MOURETSU-ER (see Yoshimi Yokota) NOA NOA--Folk duo with Alice Sailor. GITOO--Guitar techno with Bravo Komatsu. FLYING TESTICLE--Also features members of Merzbow and Masonna. They have released a CD, _Space Desia_ on Charnel Music, but Yamamoto isn't on it. WOODS--Post-techno sound. HOPPO RYODO--Protest acid songs. YA-TO-NI--Toy noise pop. ROVO--Space drums and bass. Yamamoto has also collaborated with: Phew; Hako (of AFTER DINNER); Noseyama (of DIESEL GUITAR); Jad Fair (of HALF JAPANESE). **************************************************************************** ** YOSHIMI YOKOTA PROJECTS DENDOBA (see Yamatsuka Eye) HOKEKYO MOURETSU-ER [Hokekyo is the call of the Uguis bird. Mouretsu means "intense"; and the "er" is an English suffix, i.e. "debaser." So this trans- lates as...uhh...why even bother?]--A t-shirt bearing this name came first and a band was thrown together afterwards. The members include ATR on drums, Yamamoto on bass, and Yoshimi on trumpet. Yamamoto describes the sound as "scum dub"; Yoshimi calls it "Fashion Punk." Apparently the purpose of the band is to play on other peoples' recordings uncredited. All that Yamamoto will say is that they do appear on a Boredoms CD, but won't say which one. OOIOO--New band PINK SABATH **************************************************************************** ** ATR PROJECTS ANARCHY 7 (see Yamatsuka Eye) HOKEKYO MOURETSU-ER (see Yoshimi Yokota) UNIVERSAL ERRORS--Recently formed hard core trio that shows the power of ATR's drumming. Withput question the most underrated member of the Boredoms. **************************************************************************** ** YOSHIKAWA TOYOHITO (ex-Boredoms) PROJECTS Eye once said that a Boredoms show without Yoshikawa (who has been called the "Boredoms God") is not interesting, and a recent show that I saw in New York proved his point. HAPPY COWBOYS (See Yamamoto Seiichi) UNIVERSE--Yoshikawa with Akii, vocalist of Off Mask 00. **************************************************************************** ** END OF FILE ***** -- Dave Watson, Severed Heads Liberation Front (Re-release the _Stretcher_ EP!) Frezier Balzoff (Ottawa), Ontario, Canada Email--aj153@Freenet.carleton.ca "A man is measured by the depth of his anger."--Eddie ONTARIO--Where FASCIST PRAGMATISM and DEFICIT HYSTERIA pass for COMMON SENSE. > From: "Fag music" > Subject: Boredoms, not a burden > besides lead singing for Boredoms,does Eye have another stuff out?I know he > hangs around a lot with Zorn,and I just listened to their their album called > Nani nani,it is great.But I wanna know:does anyone have a commented > discography of him,or something????Is there actually a solo Eye album,like > Adult themes for voice,for example??? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ian Farrell Subject: Re: Boredoms, not a burden Date: 13 Nov 2000 18:04:17 -0500 I was just looking on my "want list" in my PalmPilot to write all these that I didn't know about in and I saw that I had put down that Eye also had two other recent hardcore projects not on this list called "Puzzle Punks" and "One"... anyone know anything about these? > Subject: eye's side projects > > audiosports ('3-6-9', 'eat+buy+eat' and 'era of glittering glass') > dendoba (electric teeth) > destroy 2 > elvis dust > mc hellshit and dj carhouse > ufo or die > hanatarash. > > two compilations on a boredoms-affiliated > label ummo that have a number of eye side > projects, but it's difficult to tell if these > are one-offs or true projects. the compilations > are well worth a listen. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: saxophones Date: 13 Nov 2000 18:43:29 -0500 (EST) As much as there is still to be said with the human voice. Ken Waxman --- JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > the real question, if you ask me, is "how much more > to be said with saxophones?" > _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #159 Date: 14 Nov 2000 11:30:52 +1100 > Yes, and Brain is the new G'n'R drummer.. What's going on with Primus then? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fag music" Subject: Re: Boredoms, not a burden Date: 13 Nov 2000 17:00:09 -0800 I wanna hear it, then.If anyone has it for trading,lemme know.Not by air mail....like,our currency's fucked up here. Brokes, M.C. noositees >From: JonAbbey2@aol.com >Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:11:35 EST >Subject: Re: Boredoms, not a burden >To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > > >In a message dated 11/13/00 4:47:52 PM, cjw@cisco.com writes: > ><< eYe has a side project called Audiosports that is Japanese hip hop. >Highly >recommended if you like hip hop. This is a more subdued eYe from a vocal >standpoint but creatively still as exciting. >> > >yes! Era of Glitterring (sic) Gas is superb proto-trip hop from 1992, with >Eye rapping superbly and Nobukazu Takemura doing the beats. highly, highly >recommended if you can find one. > >each Audio Sports release has a different lineup, and I've actually never >heard any of the others, not sure why. are they as good? > >Jon >www.erstwhilerecords.com > >- How do you spell EMAIL? You @ 37.com - The world's easiest free Email address Get your free email at: http://email.37.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: Boredoms, not a burden Date: 13 Nov 2000 17:08:59 -0800 (PST) puzzle punks is actually the name of the album. the group is shinro otake and eye. i haven't heard of one. On Mon, 13 Nov 2000, Ian Farrell wrote: > I was just looking on my "want list" in my PalmPilot to write all these that > I didn't know about in and I saw that I had put down that Eye also had two > other recent hardcore projects not on this list called "Puzzle Punks" and > "One"... anyone know anything about these? Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: Ground-Zero, laptop music, sine waves Date: 13 Nov 2000 18:10:43 -0700 Arthur Gadney wrote: >>From the "Last Concert" CD which is probably *the* most >>intense unlistnable noise CD I have ever heard, wow. I definitely have a lot of difficulty listening to noise (Akita's "prosperity of vice, misfortune of virtue," Bart, - even Fushitsusha's live PSF double requires just the right mood) but I don't have that much trouble listening to this album. I feel like there's enough melodic relief here and there that my interest is kept (similar to Fennesz's "hotel paral.lel" or Erik M's "Zygosis"). There's a really repetitive horn line toward the end of the album which I enjoy quite a bit. I can see your point however, the album definitely begins with unapologetic noise and continues to intergect similar material thoughout. Jon Abbey wrote: >he has been playing more guitar also lately, including in >Taku Sugimoto's guitar quartet, which is composed music and is supposedly >flat out gorgeous, although I haven't heard it. oops. yup, that's drool on my shirt. Arthur: >>Will this never end? I actually thought this scene was more or less >>dead by now. How much more to be said with only sinewaves? >>Seems everyone and his mother is doing this stuff with their powerbooks, >>these days... FWIW - if you haven't heard the above mentioned "hotel paral.lel" by Fennesz I think it's well worth it. Also the Dafeldecker/Kurzmann/Fennesz/O'Rourke/Drumm/Sieward on Charhizma is one of my favorite laptop manifestations. or, well you could just pick up Stagl/Kurzmann "Schnee". I think these three are all purdy darn good except for "Schnee" which scores a bit above Mr.Universe on the fairground-hammer-and-bell-strengh-machine. Arthur: >>How much more to be said with only sinewaves? Jon: >the real question, if you ask me, is "how much more to be said with >saxophones?" I'd agree with Ken: as much as there is to be said with the human voice. Friendly statment number two: There's as much to say as musicians and artists to say it. Matt Wirzbicki BTW - I recently aquired a copy of Loren Mazzacane's "9th Avenue." The talking in the backround at the beginning of the second to last track is almost painful. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jason J. Tar" Subject: Nakamura/M Date: 13 Nov 2000 20:22:22 -0500 At 03:09 PM 11/13/00 -0700, you wrote: >but how many of them are doing it well? wait until you hear the Toshimaru >Nakamura/Sachiko M. CD I'll be releasing early next year. brilliant >collaborative sine wave improv, with a 36 minute track centerpiece. it will >melt your mind, in a good way, of course. Will this be similar to their previous collaboration on Meme? I've been only mixed in enjoying her sinewave tracks, but must say that _un_ surpasses any attempts at the sound previous. Easily my favorite of the style, better than any Ikeda or Yoshihide that I've heard of similar attempt. I've wondered what else Nakamura has done...? I'd not heard of him prior to that release (or since...). Thanks, Jason J. Tar - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JSub@aol.com Subject: Re: Boredoms, not a burden Date: 13 Nov 2000 20:54:56 EST Not overly commented, but the following is the best Boredoms/Eye related site I know of: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/4207/Boredoms/boreside.htm Speaking of which, does anyone have a complete discography for the Beast 666 tape label which released a several compilations with Boredoms/Eye material? Jeff > But I wanna know:does anyone have a commented discography of him,or > > something????Is there actually a solo Eye album,like Adult themes for > > voice,for example??? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jason J. Tar" Subject: Audio Sports Date: 13 Nov 2000 21:44:21 -0500 At 06:55 PM 11/13/00 -0700, you wrote: >each Audio Sports release has a different lineup, and I've actually never >heard any of the others, not sure why. are they as good? The later releases are more Jazzy/Trip Hop. Ok, just not as noteworthy. A few keen hip hop tracks with guest MCs, but most of the vocals are absent. There is a collaborative track with Otomo Yoshihide and a mix by him as well. Speaking of EYE, what are some more beat oriented tracks of his? I really enjoy his mix of Flare (Ken Ishii), and his tracks on the recent Fuji & Mo Wax compilations. Seems he must have more like that....? Recently saw a listing for _Shock City Shockers_ that seemed like it might fit the bill....? JJTar. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?A?= Subject: Re: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #159 Date: 13 Nov 2000 20:51:01 -0800 (PST) They're taking a break because Ler and Les have had a fallout of sorts... I heard Herb's coming back. --------------- > Yes, and Brain is the new G'n'R drummer.. What's going on with Primus then? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: PROMO: Otomo Yoshihide/Voice Crack-Bits, Bots and Signs Date: 14 Nov 2000 00:34:43 EST sorry for the promotional intrusion, and further apologies if you receive=20 more than one copy of this: I'm proud to announce the release of the latest CD on my label: Otomo Yoshihide/Voice Crack-Bits, Bots and Signs (Erstwhile 011) Otomo Yoshihide has explored the nature of sound in many different ways=20 during his career. A student of the brilliant guitarist Masayuki Takayanagi,= =20 Otomo formed the hugely influential group Ground Zero in 1990, leading the=20 project through numerous incarnations until its conclusion in 1998, as=20 documented on the epic Last Concert (Amoebic). Over the last few years,=20 Otomo has become increasingly interested in minimal wave-based electronics,= =20 as heard in his Filament and I.S.O projects. Other projects which he is=20 currently involved in include his New Jazz Quintet, who play standards from=20 composers such as Ornette Coleman, Gerry Mulligan and Eric Dolphy, as well a= s=20 original tunes by Otomo, all refracted through his unique sensibilities.=20 Otomo has also composed numerous soundtracks for movies, and has written=20 numerous articles and essays for Japanese music publications. Swiss duo Voice Crack (Norbert M=F6slang and Andy Guhl) have been playing=20 together since 1972. In 1977, they released the then underappreciated Deep=20 Voices LP (FMP, reissued on CD by Urthona), which they created largely with=20 acoustic instruments. Since 1983, they've been exclusively working with=20 "cracked everyday-electronics", modifying and/or abusing numerous small=20 household machines in order to produce extreme, unique noises. Voice Crack's= =20 current projects include their longstanding collaborative partnership with=20 Borbetomagus, poire_z with G=FCnter M=FCller and Erik M., as well as their=20= solo=20 work, well documented with such superb recent releases as Below Beyond Above= =20 (Urthona) and Shock_Late (Entenpfuhl). They also have a collaborarative disc= =20 in the works with J=E9r=F4me Noetinger and Lionel Marchetti, which will be=20 released on Grob in 2001. Bits, Bots and Signs documents the long overdue first meeting of these=20 pioneers, recorded in March 2000 in St. Gallen, Switzerland, although as=20 M=F6slang says, "from the beginning, it was as if we had played together for= a=20 long time." The three musicians generate gently pulsing rumbles, piercing=20 whistles and lingering whines, fusing these varied sounds into a series of=20 expansive panoramas. The striking cover drawing was created by Swiss artist=20 Alex Hanniman. "Otomo Yoshihide and Voice Crack expertly weave a brittle fabric of sound,=20 unifying notions of instant composition with the radiating randomness of liv= e=20 electronics. Useful sonic "flaws" fold in upon themselves giving these works= =20 a vocabulary of fresh electronic elements that come across equally as well=20 placed, spontaneous, and compelling. Electro-acoustic improvisation at its=20 most fragile and leveling extremes."-I-Sound personnel: Otomo Yoshihide-electronics Norbert M=F6slang-cracked everyday-electronics Andy Guhl-cracked everyday-electronics track listing: @@@ 1 (16:53) @@@ 2 (6:35) @@@ 3 (14:03) @@@ 4 (8:51) @@@ 5 (11:44) more info available at the following web sites, or contact Erstwhile Records= =20 at ErstRecs@aol.com: http://www.erstwhilerecords.com http://www.japanimprov.com/yotomo/index.html http://www.voicecrack.ch all Erstwhile CDs can be purchased from numerous worldwide distributors, all= =20 of which are listed on my web site. also, all Erstwhile releases can be=20 purchased via direct mail order, details of which are also on my web site.=20 future releases from Erstwhile will include: 013: Axel D=F6rner/Kevin Drumm 014: Stilluppsteypa/TV Pow 015: Phil Durrant/Thomas Lehn/Radu Malfatti 016: Toshimaru Nakamura/Sachiko M. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rudy A Carrera" Subject: Introduction Date: 13 Nov 2000 21:52:26 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_017E_01C04DBC.0336FE60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi; I'm a new member to the list. Within a few minutes, I got bombarded = with great information on what's happening with Otomo and other new = music, so I'm glad to see this place is so lively. My name is Rudy, and I run a small label in Southern California called = Fal=E7ata-Galia Recordings, specializing mainly in Eastern European new = music, but expanding (ever slowly) into the Americas (including the US = and Canada). I like everything from noise to prog, modern classical to = ethnic, free jazz to electronic (in whatever form). I look forward to posting now and again. Rudy Carrera Fal=E7ata-Galia Recordings http://come.to/falcatagalia and Masked Superstar Recordings http://members.tripod.com/masked_superstar2000/home.htm ------=_NextPart_000_017E_01C04DBC.0336FE60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi;
 
I'm a new member to the list.  Within a few = minutes, I=20 got bombarded with great information on what's happening with Otomo and = other=20 new music, so I'm glad to see this place is so lively.
 
My name is Rudy, and I run a small label in Southern = California called Fal=E7ata-Galia Recordings, specializing mainly in = Eastern=20 European new music, but expanding (ever slowly) into the Americas = (including the=20 US and Canada).  I like everything from noise to prog, modern = classical to=20 ethnic, free jazz to electronic (in whatever form).
 
I look forward to posting now and = again.
 
Rudy Carrera
Fal=E7ata-Galia Recordings
http://come.to/falcatagalia
a= nd
Masked=20 Superstar Recordings
http://m= embers.tripod.com/masked_superstar2000/home.htm
------=_NextPart_000_017E_01C04DBC.0336FE60-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Introduction Date: 14 Nov 2000 02:46:48 EST --part1_78.c993c03.274247e8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/14/00 12:56:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, rudy.carrera@worldnet.att.net writes: > Welcome Rudy- always good to have another self-admitted progger here!! -- =dg= --part1_78.c993c03.274247e8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/14/00 12:56:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,
rudy.carrera@worldnet.att.net writes:


I look forward to posting now and again.


Welcome Rudy- always good to have another self-admitted progger here!!
--
=dg= --part1_78.c993c03.274247e8_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: radian Date: 14 Nov 2000 02:52:05 EST In a message dated 11/13/00 5:24:48 PM, jkudler@mail.wesleyan.edu writes: << Even all the synth stuff is the same? It seems like there'd be a lot of variability there. Did you hear material from TG11? I didn't realize all of that was even reproducible live. >> I saw them last November in Wels, after the EP was out, before TG11 had been released. the songs I recognized were almost exactly the same as the EP, but there's less synth work on there, so you might be right. either way, check them out. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Nakamura/M Date: 14 Nov 2000 03:04:10 EST In a message dated 11/13/00 8:24:58 PM, tarjason@pilot.msu.edu writes: << Will this be similar to their previous collaboration on Meme?>> not really, that was a studio record of short pieces from 1/99, with postproduction. this is a straight improv record, compiled from their European tour this past May, with a 36 minute centerpiece. Patrice chastised me a while back for raving about records people couldn't get yet. this won't be out until February or March, but I will be playing the 36 minute track in its entirety during my DJ set at Experimental Intermedia on December 17. hopefully I'll even know approximately what time once we get closer. if you haven't been there, the sound system is easily the best for this kind of music in NYC. <> he hasn't recorded much. he's one half of Repeat, who have a few CDs consisting of beat-driven improv, not really my thing. he has a solo CD out on Zero Gravity soon, and he's on most of the Improvisation Meeting at Bar Aoyama disc, which is very good. more info at: www.japanimprov.com/tnakamura/index.html what that page won't tell you is that he's also working on a duo CD for me with Keith Rowe, probably out in the second half of 2001. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: brad shepik effects? Date: 14 Nov 2000 19:14:42 +1100 Does anyone know whether Brad Shepik uses any effects units (particularly in the Tiny Bell Trio)? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: radian Date: 14 Nov 2000 03:42:26 -0500 > there's less synth work on there, so you might be right. either way, check > them out. In the states? I will if they ever come here. How was the Le Quan Ninh show? I was going to drive up to NYC, but the usual school and radio-station related prevented it. -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeroen de Boer" Subject: Re: radian Date: 14 Nov 2000 09:54:26 GMT+0100 They played here last April, and performed the complete TG11 repertoire. We recorded the show and are thinking of putting it on the website. I'll keep you posted. Best wishes, Jeroen > << Even all the synth stuff is the same? It seems like there'd be a lot of > > variability there. Did you hear material from TG11? I didn't realize all > > of that was even reproducible live. >> Jeroen de Boer music director Open Electronic Festival/Cyberslag Foundation Munnekeholm 10, 9711JA Groningen The Netherlands tel/fax: +31 (0)503634676/(0)503632209 gsm: +31 (0)624814506 usva-th2@bureau.rug.nl http://www.cyberslag.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: [Promo] Conn. Area only, Kevin Drumm Radio Show Date: 14 Nov 2000 04:04:11 -0500 Hello, and apologies if you get this more than once. Kevin Drumm's music has been discussed on all these lists in recent memory if I'm not mistaken. This Wednesday, Nov. 15th, from 8 to 10 p.m., I will be doing a special two-hour radio show featuring only the music of Kevin Drumm. I'll be playing material from his solo albums, improvisational duets, and compilation appearances, including some now-rare material, like his split with Taku Sugimoto on BOXmedia and the Sonance Quarry compilation. Unfortunately, we're not yet broadcasting over the internet, but if you're in Conn. or the Springfield area of Mass., you should be able to hear the show at 88.1 FM on WESU, Middletown. Thanks, and apologies for the intrusion. -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: radian Date: 14 Nov 2000 04:05:51 -0500 Thanks, Jeroen. Did it indeed sound a lot like the CD? -Jesse ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 4:54 AM > They played here last April, and performed the complete TG11 > repertoire. We recorded the show and are thinking of putting it on > the website. I'll keep you posted. > > Best wishes, > > Jeroen > > > > > << Even all the synth stuff is the same? It seems like there'd be a lot of > > > > variability there. Did you hear material from TG11? I didn't realize all > > > > of that was even reproducible live. >> > > ---------------------------------------- > Jeroen de Boer > music director Open Electronic Festival/Cyberslag Foundation > Munnekeholm 10, 9711JA Groningen > The Netherlands > tel/fax: +31 (0)503634676/(0)503632209 > gsm: +31 (0)624814506 > usva-th2@bureau.rug.nl > http://www.cyberslag.com > ---------------------------------------- > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeroen de Boer" Subject: Re: radian Date: 14 Nov 2000 10:11:53 GMT+0100 Yes, very much. The part that was most intriguing though was the last song of TG11, the marimba-composition. Brandlmayer performed it live and it was just awesome.. Jeroen > Thanks, Jeroen. > > Did it indeed sound a lot like the CD? > > -Jesse Jeroen de Boer music director Open Electronic Festival/Cyberslag Foundation Munnekeholm 10, 9711JA Groningen The Netherlands tel/fax: +31 (0)503634676/(0)503632209 gsm: +31 (0)624814506 usva-th2@bureau.rug.nl http://www.cyberslag.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "in.out" Subject: Sugimoto/Krebs live in Nice Date: 14 Nov 2000 10:25:59 +0100 ViergeHello and Sorry for this promotional intrusion, Taku Sugimoto / Annette Krebs Saturday 18th of November in Nice (France) 21h @ theatre de la Br=E8che Supporting their new Duo CD on Slurb Music(contact : mailto:slubmusic@aol=2Ecom) Thanks mikl Carsenti infos pratiques : Th=E9atre de la Br=E8che Quartier Les Diables Bleus, derri=E8re l'Universit=E9 Saint-Jean d'Angely, N= ice=2E Concert organis=E9 par Le Silence des Sir=E8nes=2E http://www=2Eanima=2Enet/silsir/ Le Th=E9atre de la Br=E8che est un lieu associatif ind=E9pendant=2E renseignements / r=E9servations : t=E9l=2E 04 93 51 81 13 ou mailto:silsir@netcourrier=2Ecom - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Diego Gruber" Subject: fennesz, radian Date: 14 Nov 2000 11:10:31 +0100 thanks for the info on fennesz and radian, i'll check'em out for sure. I didn't mention that other musicians included in this programm are Essl and Dynamo. If you want any more info about this gig visit www.fluctuatedrooms.com Part of this site is still in construction but it is supposed to have downloadable files in the future which might be interesting for listeners outside their performance environment. D. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: simon hopkins Subject: various threads Date: 14 Nov 2000 10:58:59 +0000 Just for the record, I recently saw EYE DJ'ing in Osaka - I was lucky enough to be playing on the same bill in a duet with P Schutze - and he was extraordinary. Without question, the single best DJ set I've ever seen, a constantly shape-shifting collage of ethnic music, noise, fusion beats (really! - most of the second half was underpinned with what sounded like a Zawinul piece), electro-acoustic stuff. And he worked CONSTANTLY, Inspirational. also, while in Tokyo, picked up 'Pipeline - 24 Smash hits By Puzzle Punk Bands', a collaborative effort between Eye and paintwer/collagist Shinro Ohtake, which is a great slice of lo-fi mayhem. When I saw the TBT in London earlier this year, the only FX Shepik used was a distortion pedal - and that pretty sparingly. Not sure what, but sounded like an Ibanez Tube Screamer or the Boss Turbo Overdrive. Ah fuzz box trainspotting! Sorry about that. Does anyone know if this is a tour? And has anyone heard the CD? Any opinion= s? On the Sachiko M front, I don't know if anyone's mentioned the HOAHIO CD on Tzadik, which features a trio of M, Yagi Michiyo and Haco. It's wonderful, one of the best things I've heard on the label this year. I've reviewed it on motion if you'd like a quick listen. Simon -- simon hopkins a state51 | 8-10 rhoda street | london e2 7ef e simon@state51.co.uk t 020 7729 8493 check out ---+motion http://motion.state51.co.uk - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: New Music in RealAudio Date: 14 Nov 2000 06:04:09 -0600 Not entirely irrelevant to the concerns of this list: Just a short note to let you know that this week's Mappings presents two weeks each by these germinal avant garde composers. Online for approximately a week,the show will come down Monday night between 10:00pm and midnight (-0700 GMT). Other relevant Antenna shows include Attacca , which features Charles Ives and Samuel Barber this week; and Le Vide , which features Karlheinz Stockhausen's Momente this week. Hope to see you there. -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147 817 377-2983 herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Julien Quint Subject: Re: Boredoms, not a burden Date: 14 Nov 2000 15:13:58 +0100 JonAbbey2@aol.com said: > each Audio Sports release has a different lineup, and I've actually > never heard any of the others, not sure why. are they as good? I was told that Eye was not really involved with Audio Sports and just guested on some records by them. I never heard much of them since they were described as "acid jazz" by the guy who runs the Bimbo Tower in Paris... but I'll try to give the CD you described a listen, especially since Takemura is also involved. yol@esophagus.com also said: > there are two compilations on a boredoms-affiliated label ummo that > have a number of eye side projects, but it's difficult to tell if > these are one-offs or true projects. the compilations are well worth a > listen. I have one Ummo compilation, from 1997 or 1998, and I think this is mostly a project of Yamamoto, not Eye. Maybe there is another one that I don't know about? There is also the Shock City Shockers compilation (easy to recognize as the artwork was reused for Beck's latest CD) consisting mainly of Eye's one-offs (plus guests like Yoshimi's OOIOO, etc.) finally, from ifarrell@nyc.rr.com: > I was just looking on my "want list" in my PalmPilot to write all > these that I didn't know about in and I saw that I had put down that > Eye also had two other recent hardcore projects not on this list > called "Puzzle Punks" and "One"... anyone know anything about these? Puzzle Punks have two records that I know of. The first is called "Pipeline", and is presented as a compilation of 24 puzzle punks bands, with a thick art book. Might be hard to find and expensive (my copy was expensive!) The second record is called "Budub", and there is a beautiful picture-LP or a CD version. I like this one a lot! -- Julien - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Odp: Introduction Date: 14 Nov 2000 15:29:18 +0100 ----- Wiadomosc oryginalna ----- Od: "Rudy A Carrera" Do: Wyslano: 14 listopada 2000 06:52 Temat: Introduction Hi; I'm a new member to the list. Within a few minutes, I got bombarded with great information on what's happening with Otomo and other new music, so = I'm glad to see this place is so lively. My name is Rudy, and I run a small label in Southern California called Fal=E7ata-Galia Recordings, specializing mainly in Eastern European new m= usic, but expanding (ever slowly) into the Americas (including the US and Canad= a). I like everything from noise to prog, modern classical to ethnic, free ja= zz to electronic (in whatever form). HI Rudy What about Dziubek-Durer CD ?? Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Thomas" Subject: RE:Bill Dixon Date: 14 Nov 2000 09:31:59 -0600 > From: JonAbbey2@aol.com [snip] > > I think Dixon's duo CDs with Oxley from earlier this year, > Papyrus, volumes 1 > and 2, are less successful and I'm not exactly sure why. > Volume 2 especially > does very little for me, it feels like somehow all the magic > has been drained > away. anyone else feel the same or differently? I really like both volumes of _Papyrus_. I like the distilling down to just Oxley and Dixon from the _Vade Mecum_ groups because my interest was really in those two players. With the bassists on _Vade Mecum_ I thought it was a bit too much of a good thing. Both Guy and Parker are very active bassists and listening to the constant activity they generate got really boring for me over the length of a record. My favorite Dixons would include _November 1981_, the solo on Cadence (I know I shouldn't have bought this against Dixon's wishes but it is really great music), _Son of Sisyphus_ and maybe one of the _Papyrus_ volumes. Just another humble view... John - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: Boredoms, not a burden Date: 14 Nov 2000 16:04:50 GMT Hey, >puzzle punks is actually the name of the album. >the group is shinro otake and eye. Yes, the name of the first CD. Then it became the band name. The second CD is called "Budub" ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Introduction Date: 14 Nov 2000 16:49:06 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 6:52 AM My name is Rudy, and I run a small label in Southern California called Fal=E7ata-Galia Recordings, specializing mainly in Eastern European new m= usic, but expanding (ever slowly) into the Americas (including the US and Canad= a). I like everything from noise to prog, modern classical to ethnic, free ja= zz to electronic (in whatever form). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you're running a l;abel and you're interested in Eastern European Impr= ov, maybe you'd be intersted in my band? We're from warsaw, Poland. The band'= s called mala rzacz a cieszy) An includes Mikolaj Hernik on reeds, Marcin Rychter on piano, and myself on elccrtonics, samples, Am radio, FXs, text= s, prerecorded material, etc. we'd be happy to send you a demo - at least to know what people think about what we do. Cheers, Marcin Gokieli - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: Otomo Yoshihide/Ground-Zero (long) Date: 14 Nov 2000 09:53:30 -0800 (PST) > it's funny that you call Last Concert unlistenable > noise and Consume Red > minimalist.. In defense of LAST CONCERT: I owe several people on this list a debt of gratitude for their recommendation of LAST CONCERT, which after owning for weeks, I finally got down to dedicating some attention last night, from beginning to end. It's a crisp recording of a remarkable performance. When I describe it as "utter apocalypse", it simply doesn't do justice to the staggering detail of the din. I had my doubts when people kept describing it as a din, since I'm no fan of the wall of sound, as such. I now remember being disenchanted with free-blare, all the more so with Large Group Free-Blare, as long ago as 1995, when I went to the AACM's 25th anniversary concerts in Chicago, and witnessed one night, the last, culminating in a free blow-out with some thirty or forty people playing on stage at once, loudly. 'This is the end of the AACM,' I thought at the time, 'or rather the visitation of an old tombstone, long abandoned and left dirty.' Few of the Grand Masters showed up for the AACM concerts, and one of the few who did---George Lewis---was also the only one in the entire festival who used electronics. But not just electronics....a laptop with INTERACTIVE SOFTWARE! The effect was scandalous. No booing---these fans have been sensitized by such offense---but lots of head scratching and private guffaws afterwards. The consensus on George was that the old man had finally gone off the deep end. It was quite clearly another example of Braxton's sarcastic observations of "where is dee jazz?" disorientation. LAST CONCERT operates quite a bit like that: "_this_ doesn't sound )_anything_ like Naked City! I hate this!" This might be a little too close to "ethical" criticism for comfort or edification, but Otomo has always struch me as both refreshingly tasteless and conscientious. Along with his irreverence and cruelty, there seems to be a seriousness---dare I say "sincerity"?---and I find myself willing to trust him to build mazes that I'll be happier having come through. LAST CONCERT seems to be only superficially similar to the din I heard that night five years ago this month in Chicago; it is not a eulogy, but rather a manifesto, or a changing of the guard, or a fond farewell without nostalgia. I don't think it's an allegory of any kind, or some kind of narrative about Otomo's journey to sinal "purity", and it certainly isn't a moving "forward" whatever that means; it's just Otomo allowing the band to peel away, to blow it self out, and to crumble into its own phonemes. Normally I'd say that without the din of LAST CONCERT, its last moments wouldn't be so meaningful, nor for that matter the work of FILAMENT, or ISO; but that's an artifical contrast and does a disservice to the sheer hyperdetailed sumptuousness of the din. RE: OTOMO'S ATTITUDE TOWARD THE RELEASE OF A COLLAB WITH MARCLAY >he evidently feels that it's not representative of >his current work and interests. Maybe his recognition that he's a "star", and that the market is glutted, and that "it's all good", so why should "good" even be a criterion for whether something gets put out or not? I wonder if he tires of being known by many as a crazy-ass DJ, the same way Jim O'Rourke and Kevin Drumm have turned away from the guitar somewhat, to distance themselves from being ghetto-ized as "guitarists". I sensed a tinge of irony in the (possible) title of Drumm's self-titled release on Perdition Plastics ("Guitar")...the same kind of irony that comes to mind when I think of Greg Kelley's TRUMPET record. A critique of "instrumental" reason! (Dumb pun, sorry.) > < was more or less dead by > now. How much more to be said with only sinewaves? > Seems everyone and his mother is doing this stuff > with their powerbooks, > these days...>> Will this never end? Every decade is the same: death of jazz, death of philosophy, death of morals....Jesus Christ! What rich graveyards we inhabit! > the real question, if you ask me, is "how much more > to be said with > saxophones?" I personally thought Jon was being ironic. The "museum guards" of Sanctioned Concert Hall Culture have long scorned the saxophone as a limited instrument, a late-comer; I suppose afficionados of the saxophone must have their whipping boy. Come on, comeuppance! A few recordings, all recommended by ZOrn-list members, which have changed my mind about the use of sine waves, include Sachiko M's beautiful 3" DEBRIS e.p., the ISO self-titled on Alcohol, Otomo's CATHODE, FILAMENT 2, some stuff on the TULPAS box set, and many other recordings. Predicting the exhaustion and quantifying the vitality of practices, forms, or instruments seems to be a waste of time. It seems eschatological, and perhaps millenarial. -----s, scatological (Really sorry about the length.) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: Re: ostertag Date: 14 Nov 2000 13:04:46 EST << ostertag reissue -- the one built on samples of a boy crying as shovels dig the grave for his father in el salvador (slightly different than the original description). i had it, listened to it once, thought it brilliantly executed and utterly wrenching, and sold it hoping to never hear it again. it's not especially 'musical,' and it's emotionally pretty tough going >> dear kurt, i chanced on this by accident years ago for a buyck and its one the my favorite all times didscs. yes, you cant listen to it often, as it is totally draining and upsetting, as it is suuposed toi be. i wish his aids piece for act up for the kronos on nonesuch had a hundredth of the power of this piece yrs steve koenig n.p. ''school's out' by alice cooper, in my head version as i type this at work in my school on a bad day wishing i were elsewhere, but not el salvador - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: Re: dixon ixley & schlippenbach Date: 14 Nov 2000 13:09:45 EST In a message dated 11/13/00 5:11:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes: << I think Dixon's duo CDs with Oxley from earlier this year, Papyrus, volumes 1 and 2, are less successful and I'm not exactly sure why. Volume 2 especially does very little for me, it feels like somehow all the magic has been drained away. anyone else feel the same or differently? >> dear jon, i agree. theyre dull because they simply dont click. nothing more complicated than that. for a superb oxley disc, which i listened to instead of going to the cecil/ox gigs at tonic as i was broke and tired at the same time, is on FMP: schlippenbach and oxley duo called 'diggers harvest.' cant praise it too highly for both partners yrs steve koenig np: eddie harris and les maccann "second movement" label m reissue, suprisingly great fun - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Ong Subject: Re: Nakamura/M Date: 14 Nov 2000 13:48:28 -0500 > < to that release (or since...). >> > > he hasn't recorded much. he's one half of Repeat, who have a few CDs > consisting of beat-driven improv, not really my thing. he has a solo CD out > on Zero Gravity soon, and he's on most of the Improvisation Meeting at Bar > Aoyama disc, which is very good. more info at: I really like Nakamura's track on the LMC Resonance 9.1 CD. It's only about 6 minutes long though. new General Magic is pretty screwed up. -eric. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stefan Verstraeten" Subject: Watch out for Pat Thomas Date: 14 Nov 2000 21:13:06 +0100 Hello, I know that there are some zornlisters that are into european free music, so be aware... There is a new album by Pat Thomas, called Jazz Patterns on the Strand label. The only problem is that this one is not the Pat Thomas we know (you know, the sample-keyboard player). This Pat Thomas is a female african american jazz singer of 21 years old who sings the jazz like Wynton Marsalis likes to hear it... You can imagine my face when I heard these dull sounds..... Anyway, my record dealer was so kind to take the record back, so no harm was done, except off course the memory of this horrible experience.... Best wishes Stefan Verstraeten stefan.annik@planetinternet.be - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Tzadik web site updated Date: 14 Nov 2000 12:36:03 -0800 Check the Tzadik web site for December 2000 and January 2001 releases. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "samuel yrui" Subject: Galas and Dresser?!?! Date: 14 Nov 2000 18:20:16 CST WHOA!!!!! Mark Dresser and Diamanda Galas have collaborated?! Is this on CD? could anyone tell me about this? wow. thanks. samuel _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Drivymovie@aol.com Subject: Re: Galas and Dresser?!?! Date: 14 Nov 2000 20:23:40 EST I was actually wondering this myself, but when I posted the question on the Diamanda Galas list, no one knew who the fuck Mark Dresser was, let alone, if there was any collaboration between the two. I do know that they were/are good friends, and have at least played together in the past, but I'm not sure if any of it was ever documented (nothing was listed on Dresser's discography). word, -Evan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: Ninh/Rainey/Kelley Date: 14 Nov 2000 21:18:18 -0500 Jesse Kudler wrote: > How was the Le Quan Ninh show? > - Very fine, imho. Ninh, for those unfamiliar with his work, centers his activity around a large bass drum, lying horizontally on a small table. He utilizes it both as an object to batter with all manner of devices (including stones, gongs, wires, marbles, cymbals, bows, styrofoam and Tibetan bowls) and (often at the same time) as a resonator for objects scraped, dragged and bounced across its surface. He managed to be both hyperactive and extremely intense, his sound ranging from ultra-delicate to an absolute roar, at all times maintaining both rhythmic and melodic interest. Had I been listening to this performance on disc, I would've been almost entirely at a loss to figure out how many of these sounds were being generated. Ninh was really impressive, easily one of the finest solo percussion performances I've ever seen. Jon posted his tour schedule a couple of days back; I'd strongly recommend checking him out. Bhob Rainey and Greg Kelley played the next set. I had heard each of them last month (in different bands, no?) in Boston. But as nice as that theatre was, it struck me that performances which depend to this degree on subtlety and which are often as quiet as this was, are far more readily appreciated when, as in Tonic, one can sit a few feet away in a quiet space and capture every little nuance. Very little of their music had to do with "normal" sounds from their instruments (curved soprano and trumpet), instead consisting of whistles, burps, sighs, clicks, muffled screams etc. And it worked very well. When one can hear every tiny detail, there's quite a complex and enjoyable soundscape to discern. Kelley was perhaps the more "flamboyant" of the two, producing sounds I'd guess few have ever heard issuing from a trumpet (or parts thereof), but Rainey was a fine foil, always listening intently and reacting perfectly. Check 'em out if you're able. The three joined for two pieces to end the show, again both very fine and deliciously subdued. Congrats to Jon for arranging the gig. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Galas and Dresser?!?! Date: 14 Nov 2000 21:29:58 -0500 On Tue, Nov 14, 2000 at 08:23:40PM -0500, Drivymovie@aol.com wrote: > I was actually wondering this myself, but when I posted the question on the > Diamanda Galas list, no one knew who the fuck Mark Dresser was, let alone, if > there was any collaboration between the two. I do know that they were/are > good friends, and have at least played together in the past, but I'm not sure > if any of it was ever documented (nothing was listed on Dresser's > discography). A quick look via search engines brings up several mentions of their having played together in the '70s, with Galas doing piano rather than vocals. But no mention of any recordings. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Ninh/Rainey/Kelley Date: 15 Nov 2000 06:09:00 EST I don't feel too comfortable reviewing a show I set up, but I do have a few things to add to Brian's nicely written review: <> plus a giant pine cone, which ended up disintegrated by the end of the set. <> yes, they played separately in Autumn Uprising. this was their NYC debut as a duo. <> it was really exciting for me to hear how quiet Tonic was. during the softer parts of Ninh's set, there was complete and total silence except for the music. throughout the night, the audience, although not large, was incredibly receptive, making me feel like there's an audience for this music slowly building in NYC. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Otomo Yoshihide/Ground-Zero Date: 15 Nov 2000 11:36:22 GMT >From: JonAbbey2@aol.com ><intense unlistnable noise CD I have ever heard, to "Null & Void" which has >some really beautiful quiet parts, or the minimalist "Consume Red" to the >ultra eclectic genre marathon "Plays Standarts">> > >it's funny that you call Last Concert unlistenable noise and Consume Red >minimalist, since the bulk of Last Concert is a live performance of Consume >Red. This has quickly become my favorite live jazz improv recording of all. Absolutely brilliant and powerful. But Consume Red is the best thing Otomo has done anyway IMHO. ><by >now. How much more to be said with only sinewaves? >Seems everyone and his mother is doing this stuff with their powerbooks, >these days...>> >the real question, if you ask me, is "how much more to be said with >saxophones?" A lot's been said thus far. An awful lot. But I happen to agree. If the avant-garde itself has anything new to say, the space is and will be in electro-acoustic improv. One place to look for the saxophone in all this is in Evan Parker's "Live at Les Instants Chavires" which I bought last night. It's great to see Parker open to this kind of electronic manipulation--making the saxophone do much more than what it's designed to do. And as for the sax, an instrument I continue to love, nothing for me will ever equal the urgencies of the "freedom principle" of the great Actuel artists and elsewhere of the late 60s and early 70s. A David Ware inherits this tradition and does so very well, but he doesn't have the same sensibility, the same urgency. The chops are there, the feeling is not, for me at least (I can only but speak for myself after all). Ayler, Braxton, Coltrane, and Dolphy are for me "gods." Spare me "truth," please, but don't take away my "gods." _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Watch out for Pat Thomas Date: 15 Nov 2000 16:13:21 +0100 BTW, that reminds me a sad story about another band called skeleton crew: some south-us rock band , doing a cover of 'i'm the walrus'.... Anybody 's got the disc? Disaster... Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fag music" Subject: Never again Zorn Date: 15 Nov 2000 08:32:45 -0800 Recently, I listened to the song ''Never Again'',by Zorn.Is it just me,or this song has a lot of influence from Masami Akita(aka Merzbow)?Is there any relation to Akita and Zorn???Did they play together?Will they???? Noises, Oersted How do you spell EMAIL? You @ 37.com - The world's easiest free Email address Get your free email at: http://email.37.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: New music on the horizon: Frisell, Shipp, Douglas Date: 15 Nov 2000 18:46:58 -0500 Wanted to drop some advance word on upcoming recordings by Bill Frisell, Matthew Shipp and Dave Douglas, mainly to clear up the rumors that have been floating around, some of which I've contributed to. Think of it as a tantalizing act of attrition. 1. Bill Frisell's next release on Nonesuch, 'Blues Dream,' is due out on January 16. It features 18 mostly short but compositions for a septet of himself, Billy Drewes (sax), Ron Miles (trumpet), Curtis Fowlkes (trombone), Greg Leisz (pedal steel, lap steel, National steel guitar, Scheerhorn resonator guitar, mandolin), David Piltch (bass) and Kenny Wollesen (drums, percussion). The trio album with Dave Holland and Elvin Jones previously mentioned will be released later in the year, probably in the fall. 2. Matthew Shipp's newest for Thirsty Ear's Blue Series, 'Matthew Shipp's New Orbit,' is also due on January 16. It's a unified cycle of austere and poetic music, like an extended prayer, played by Wadada Leo Smith (trumpet), William Parker (bass) and Gerald Cleaver (drums). Less Cecil Taylor, more Paul Bley. 3. Dave Douglas has corrected my earlier statement regarding his release schedule: Witness will indeed be his next RCA Victor release, coming in May or June. The Trisha Brown trilogy will also likely be released sometime next year, but may be released as a "soundtrack" to upcoming performances rather than treated as one of Dave's "jazz" releases. In other words, Witness will be the third of the four albums he's contracted to release, but the Trisha Brown disc might NOT be considered the fourth. We'll see. Back to your previously scheduled programming. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: New music on the horizon: Frisell, Shipp, Douglas Date: 15 Nov 2000 19:42:45 EST In a message dated 11/15/00 6:49:33 PM, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: << Matthew Shipp's newest for Thirsty Ear's Blue Series, 'Matthew Shipp's New Orbit,' is also due on January 16. It's a unified cycle of austere and poetic music, like an extended prayer, played by Wadada Leo Smith (trumpet), William Parker (bass) and Gerald Cleaver (drums). Less Cecil Taylor, more Paul Bley. >> has Matt stated publicly yet what exactly he was talking about a couple of years ago when he said repeatedly that he was retiring from making recordings, yet they've continued to flow fairly unabated? just curious. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: New music on the horizon: Frisell, Shipp, Douglas Date: 15 Nov 2000 19:47:29 -0500 on 00.11.15 19:42, JonAbbey2@aol.com at JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/15/00 6:49:33 PM, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: > > << Matthew Shipp's newest for Thirsty Ear's Blue Series, 'Matthew > Shipp's New Orbit,' > > has Matt stated publicly yet what exactly he was talking about a couple of > years ago when he said repeatedly that he was retiring from making > recordings, yet they've continued to flow fairly unabated? just curious. He changed his mind. Happens to the best of us. I didn't believe it (was possible) for a single moment. RL ---------- Sessionographies: CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies: COURVOISIER; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN. --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things-- Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k UPDATE *June 25*, 2000: Vids, a few CDs, baseball books, misc. ***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: New music on the horizon: Frisell, Shipp, Douglas Date: 15 Nov 2000 20:18:32 -0500 Rick Lopez wrote: > on 00.11.15 19:42, JonAbbey2@aol.com at JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 11/15/00 6:49:33 PM, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: > > > > << Matthew Shipp's newest for Thirsty Ear's Blue Series, 'Matthew > > Shipp's New Orbit,' > > > > has Matt stated publicly yet what exactly he was talking about a couple of > > years ago when he said repeatedly that he was retiring from making > > recordings, yet they've continued to flow fairly unabated? just curious. > > He changed his mind. Happens to the best of us. Well, there's a LITTLE more to it than that. According to Shipp, he "retired" from making new records because he had enough stuff out on the market. He also made certain noises about having "said his piece," but of course there's no way that could hold up. I think, however, that he suddenly realized he was suffering from Lacy-Braxton Syndrome: if you release too many records, you're in danger of overwhelming your fans (Rick aside, naturally) and frustrating potential newcomers. What brought him back was Thirsty Ear's opportunity to run his own little slice of the label, the Blue Series. Given that he was such a vocal critic of the jazz industry as being a "death industry," in which musicians are marketable only when they die and can be easily and tidily "summarized," it was an opportunity to do things as he saw fit. He's also likened the series to early ECM, in that it's designed for musicians who come from the avant-garde but aren't averse to melodicism and otehr such things. Thirsty Ear's one stipulation was that he inaugurate the series himself, which he did with 'Pastoral Composure.' Thirsty Ear made the offer soon after the announced retirement, thus the unabated flow you mention. The next two records released, by William Parker and Mat Maneri, presented a risk that Shipp might be seen as extending invitations only to his friends and bandmates. But with the inclusion of Leo Smith on 'New Orbit' and upcoming records by Craig Taborn (yes, a Shipp bandmate in the Roscoe Mitchell Note Factory, but still someone better know for playing to the masses with James Carter) and, it's rumored, Tim Berne (most likely via the Taborn connection), there are signs that Shipp might be willing to stretch a bit outside his immediate circle of fellow travelers. We'll see. Shipp talks about all this and more here: http://www.jazzweekly.com/interviews/shipp.htm Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - John Zorn, "troiseme livre," 'Duras:Duchamp' (Tzadik) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: Never again Zorn Date: 16 Nov 2000 10:21:15 GMT Hey, > I listened to the song ''Never Again'',by Zorn.Is it just me,or >this song >has a lot of influence from Masami Akita(aka Merzbow)?Is there any relation >to >Akita and Zorn???Did they play together?Will they???? You would think that there would be some connection, all similiarities concidered: Zorn's interest in Japanese underground, their mutual fondness of extreme bondage pictures etc etc etc. However, I have never heard any of them mention eachother or playing together or being connected in any way whatsoever. Fred Frith, however, met Merzbow in Japan in 1981. It's amazing to think that a lot of people with yellow sunglasses suddenly think that Merzbow and japnoise is "ultrahip" ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Never again Zorn Date: 16 Nov 2000 22:04:26 +1100 > You would think that there would be some connection, all similiarities > concidered: Zorn's interest in Japanese underground, their mutual fondness > of extreme bondage pictures etc etc etc. However, I have never heard any of > them mention eachother or playing together or being connected in any way > whatsoever. Didn't Zorn release a Merzbow album on Tzadik though? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: European On-line shps Date: 16 Nov 2000 13:44:49 +0100 Hi, I'd need info on European On-line shops (cds, books) worth recommendation. Thanks, Marcin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: European On-line shps Date: 16 Nov 2000 07:53:52 EST In a message dated 11/16/00 7:46:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl writes: << Hi, I'd need info on European On-line shops (cds, books) worth recommendation. Thanks, Marcin >> 101cd.com ________________________________________________ The dignity of art appears to the greatest advantage perhaps in music, because that art contains no material to be deducted. It is wholly form and intrinsic value, and it elevates and ennobles everything which it expresses. --Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: prepiano Cage match (RE: question) Date: 16 Nov 2000 08:11:14 -0800 (PST) Re: technical notation for piano preparations --- "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) wrote: > In other words if Cage wanted specific sounds to be > the same performance > after performance then he surely didn't give > explicit enough directions IMO. But wouldn't this be in keeping with Cagean theories of indeterminacy? Wouldn't the explicit simply establish the authority of the composer to dictate the "specific" events of a performance, thereby setting up increasingly rigorous standards about what was or wasn't acceptable in the course of a performance? Were the prepared piano pieces BEFORE Cage became involved with Zen and chance (there _were_ prep pieces before this, right?) more specified? And incidentally, I've done a search for in-print recordings of Cage's prepared piano pieces by David Tudor, and other than the 25th Retrospective concert recordings, I've found nothing. Am I lazy? -----s, maybe I should take this to Silence-L __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: prepiano Cage match (RE: question) Date: 16 Nov 2000 10:47:00 -0500 On Thu, Nov 16, 2000 at 08:11:14AM -0800, Scott Handley wrote: > But wouldn't this be in keeping with Cagean theories > of indeterminacy? Wouldn't the explicit simply > establish the authority of the composer to dictate the > "specific" events of a performance, thereby setting up > increasingly rigorous standards about what was or > wasn't acceptable in the course of a performance? > Were the prepared piano pieces BEFORE Cage became > involved with Zen and chance (there _were_ prep pieces > before this, right?) more specified? For the most part, yes, the prepared piano pieces were from before Cage focused on indeterminacy. See the excellent listing of Cage's pieces by Larry Solomon at http://www.azstarnet.com/~solo/cageopus.htm > And > incidentally, I've done a search for in-print > recordings of Cage's prepared piano pieces by David > Tudor, and other than the 25th Retrospective concert > recordings, I've found nothing. Am I lazy? > > -----s, maybe I should take this to Silence-L I don't know of any offhand. But if they exist, people on Silence will know. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: RE: prepiano Cage match (RE: question) Date: 16 Nov 2000 10:21:44 -0700 -----Original Message----- Sent: 11/16/2000 9:11 AM Re: technical notation for piano preparations --- "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) wrote: > In other words if Cage wanted specific sounds to be > the same performance > after performance then he surely didn't give > explicit enough directions IMO. >But wouldn't this be in keeping with Cagean theories >of indeterminacy? The liner notes to the CD of the "perilous night/four walls" indicate that Cage *did* in fact intent to establish consistancies in performance and was frustrated when he heard "mistakes" in preparation. Eventually, of course he grew to love such inconsistancies. But, at first I believe the pieces were written from the mind of an entirely control oriented composerly mindset. Matt Wirzbicki - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Martin Wisckol" Subject: dresser-galas performance Date: 16 Nov 2000 10:22:21 -0800 I believe both Dresser and Diamanda are from San Diego. In any event, both were living there in the late 1970s. I was not aware of anything approaching regular performances together. But I did catch the two in what may have been a duet (memory!), bass and vocal, in an upstairs coffee house in the afternoon. I recall sunlight through the window striping the room, Galas in her most ferocious shrieking form, Dresser using his full arsenal of non-traditional techniques.... A Sunday afternoon, I think.... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Ken Burns' 'Jazz' film Date: 16 Nov 2000 14:51:42 -0500 Lovely quote from this self-appointed historian (mind you, the whole series is 19-hours): "The film actually ends with (Louis) Armstrong's death in 1971 and Ellington's demise three years later; and Burns spends a single hour wrapping up the subsequent 30 years of history. He's already heard plenty of criticism from those jazz fanatics who want to know why he pays so little attention to modern-day practitioners. "And I say to them, 'So you tell me, among the people playing now or anyone alive in jazz, who is the equal of Armstrong, Ellington, Parker, Davis, or Coltrane?'" he says. "Complete silence. I said, 'I have made my point.'" Guess that settles a lot of arguments, eh! ;-) Not surprisingly, our dear friend Wynton was a major consultant for the film. culled from http://www.dallasobserver.com/issues/2000-11-16/music.html Best, Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: Ken Burns' 'Jazz' film Date: 16 Nov 2000 15:12:57 EST In a message dated 11/16/00 2:55:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, perfect-sound@furious.com writes: << He's already heard plenty of criticism from those jazz fanatics who want to know why he pays so little attention to modern-day practitioners. "And I say to them, 'So you tell me, among the people playing now or anyone alive in jazz, who is the equal of Armstrong, Ellington, Parker, Davis, or Coltrane?'" he says. "Complete silence. I said, 'I have made my point.'" >> Time will tell. Burns is correct when he says no one today is "equal" to the above list, at least in terms of popularity and recognition. Even people who have never heard a note of legitimate jazz have heard the names Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Charlie Parker, Duke Ellington, and Louis Armstrong. Whether anyone today, anyone creating groundbreaking music of that caliber, can establish that kind of name for him/herself has yet to be seen. Zorn is very popular compared to other avant practitioners, but he's hardly a household name. Chances are you won't see him on a Macintosh billboard with the words "Think Different" printed beneath. Dave Douglas is having his day in the sun, and things look like they can only get better, but given his cross-genre stylistic approach I can't see him having the popularity with as wide an audience as Louis Armstrong. It just ain't gonna happen. (Too bad, too, as I spend many of waking hours listening to Douglas with awe.) Wynton Marsalis is widely known, and he's a solid player and composer (go ahead, flame away; i know most of you loathe him; i figure he's better than a poser like Kenny G), but he's more a populizer than a true visionary groundbreaker. Chances are Marsalis's name will be remembered for his making the public more aware of jazz than for his own contributions to the genre. So tell me: Who on today's scene do you predict will be considered equal to Armstrong, Parker, Davis, Ellington, Coltrane in terms of both innovation AND popularity? Just curious, tom - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: Ken Burns' 'Jazz' film Date: 16 Nov 2000 15:24:26 -0500 At 3:12 PM -0500 11/16/00, Samerivertwice@aol.com wrote: >Zorn is very popular compared to other avant practitioners, but he's hardly a >household name. Chances are you won't see him on a Macintosh billboard with >the words "Think Different" printed beneath. But what an image! http://www.thewire.co.uk/out/img/0004_1p.jpg would seem to be made for this purpose. Although some of the Naked City covers and videos would work, too. Thinking _really_ different, Maurice -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Ken Burns' 'Jazz' film Date: 16 Nov 2000 15:53:16 -0500 Samerivertwice@aol.com wrote: > Wynton Marsalis is widely known, and he's a solid player and composer (go > ahead, flame away; i know most of you loathe him; i figure he's better than a > poser like Kenny G), but he's more a populizer than a true visionary > groundbreaker. Chances are Marsalis's name will be remembered for his making > the public more aware of jazz than for his own contributions to the genre. I think Marsalis is proving a rather boring and derivative composer, but agree with your estimation of his position in jazz history. Too bad he makes use of the platform to denigrate and marginalize anyone who doesn't see eye to eye with his particular version of jazz history. And despite Kenny G's dearth of talent, I say more power to him. If people want to consume his pablum, fine. It makes them feel better, just like Braxton or Zorn or Merzbow or whatever make us feel better. Who's to call his fans wrong? And if even the tiniest sliver of his gargantuan audience takes another step deeper into "real" jazz, then he's accomplished something. (A confession I've made before: I initially came into the music largely through Spyro Gyra.) > So tell me: Who on today's scene do you predict will be considered equal to > Armstrong, Parker, Davis, Ellington, Coltrane in terms of both innovation AND > popularity? No one. And this is not because there aren't worthy and innovative artists out there. As an artform, jazz is healthier and more diverse than ever, both in the avant-garde (cite all the obvious names we always talk about) and in the mainstream (where Jason Moran, Avishai Cohen and Ben Allison are but three players off the top of my head who are doing genuinely interesting things, all completely different from one another). Rather, it's because I don't ever foresee a time when jazz will return to the level of social cache and societal awareness that it enjoyed in the pre-rock days, when it was still the pop music of choice. For better or for worse, when Charlie Parker took the music out of the dance halls and made it more self-consciously an artform, that spelled the end of its mass popularity. The music is richer for it, but the culture got a chance to take a pass and look for less challenging fare. I'd also hazard a guess that Parker, Davis and Coltrane aren't as "popular" as all that. Most music lovers seem compelled to add 'Kind of Blue' to their collections (much like the tacet requirement that every record collection in Long Island must include a copy of 'Bat Out of Hell'), but how many people truly know Miles Davis's career? And if you did a Jay Leno-style walkaround and asked the average person on the street, do you think that many people would know Parker or Coltrane? We on the list perceive them as icons, as does Burns, evidently, but we're all distinctly NOT the societal norm and neither is he. That said, I do think it was irresponsible and misleading for Burns to arbitrarily neglect the avant-garde, fusion, and Latin jazz, all critically important developments that can't be overlooked if the objective is to create a truly representative history of the music. (Mind you, I've not seen the series in advance; I can only make judgement from what I've read and from a talk by Burns back in January...) It goes back to what I quoted Matt Shipp yesterday as having said about the "death industry": Burns seems to have essentially canonized the music, set it up on a museum pedestal, and overlooked the fact that innovation and new developments are still taking place. If he does take heed of Marsalis and his ilk, to my mind that simply reinforces the notion that jazz is now a finite canon, a repertoire in which new developments are overlooked in favor of recreations and imitations. The thing I'll be most curious to see is the ratings the series garners when it's aired. I think it will do much, much worse than the Civil War and baseball series did, because jazz is so much further from mass awareness. The appeal won't be as great, I fear, and I don't really anticipate a groundswell in jazz market share; at best, we might see a quick blip. But lest anyone take this as a whole lot of doom and gloom, read what I said above again. As an artform, jazz is healthier and more diverse than ever. Your turn, Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Ken Burns' 'Jazz' film Date: 16 Nov 2000 12:55:10 -0800 On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 15:12:57 EST Samerivertwice@aol.com wrote: > > So tell me: Who on today's scene do you predict will be considered equal to > Armstrong, Parker, Davis, Ellington, Coltrane in terms of both innovation AND > popularity? Once you leave behind melody and rhythm, you take the risk of leaving also most of the audience behind. It is not just jazz, look at the state of what used to be called classical music? Did we really recover from dodecaphonism/ serialism and chance composition? I am talking from the intelligent and curious audience point of view, not about the mainstream or the happy fews like most of us on this list. Is it really surprising that when a contemporary classical record raises above obscurity, it is by a composer who goes back to old values like melody, feeling, easy rhythm (Gorecky, Nyman, Part)? Should we still believe that most Occidental audiences have been brainwashed by major/minor sclales and binary rhythms, and that one day they will see the light? Or should we simply accept that beyond a certain level of "experimentation", and many decades after to verify that what was perceived as experiment still sounds like it (put your favorite obscure composer here), that these "experimentations" are simply acquired taste with no common denominator values (needed to reach a larger audience)? This is a thrilling experience to feel different by not listening to the same music as your next door neighbour, but if we feel lonely or left aside (by most media), where is the fault? And frankly, if most media would acknowledge "our" music (since some people on the list feel sad about their total lack of interest for it), wouldn't we be pissed? Where would be the underdog feeling so important for audiences of obscure forms of art? We love the obscure, right? In this case why are we complaining that nobody sees us? Patrice (who feels that "his" music gets more media coverage than its relative obscurity really deserves and feels very lucky for that). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: Ken Burns' 'Jazz' film Date: 16 Nov 2000 16:22:33 EST Thank you, Steve. I knew that my query would elicit a thoughtful, intelligent response from you. Personally, I always thought of Wynton as very intelligent but a "bit" (insert *eye roll*) conservative in his interpretation of what jazz is and supposedly should be. He tone and technique are flawless, but he's hardly risky. All of his compositions that I've heard have been "derivative," but, as I said before, solid and steeped in jazz's pre-bop and bop traditions. He rather reminds me of the Salieri character played by F. Murray Abrahams (sp?) in "Amadeus." He's acutely aware of where talent exists, possesses some himself, can make capable music, but is unable to break any new ground. And I will defend Wynton to the teeth for the same reasons you, Steve, defend Kenny G. If it weren't for Marsalis, the jazz selection at your local CD store would be even thinner than it is now. Bless him for bringing jazz -- of ANY kind -- to the masses. Discuss, tom In a message dated 11/16/00 3:55:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: << > Wynton Marsalis is widely known, and he's a solid player and composer (go > ahead, flame away; i know most of you loathe him; i figure he's better than a > poser like Kenny G), but he's more a populizer than a true visionary > groundbreaker. Chances are Marsalis's name will be remembered for his making > the public more aware of jazz than for his own contributions to the genre. I think Marsalis is proving a rather boring and derivative composer, but agree with your estimation of his position in jazz history. Too bad he makes use of the platform to denigrate and marginalize anyone who doesn't see eye to eye with his particular version of jazz history. And despite Kenny G's dearth of talent, I say more power to him. If people want to consume his pablum, fine. It makes them feel better, just like Braxton or Zorn or Merzbow or whatever make us feel better. Who's to call his fans wrong? And if even the tiniest sliver of his gargantuan audience takes another step deeper into "real" jazz, then he's accomplished something. (A confession I've made before: I initially came into the music largely through Spyro Gyra.) > So tell me: Who on today's scene do you predict will be considered equal to > Armstrong, Parker, Davis, Ellington, Coltrane in terms of both innovation AND > popularity? No one. And this is not because there aren't worthy and innovative artists out there. As an artform, jazz is healthier and more diverse than ever, both in the avant-garde (cite all the obvious names we always talk about) and in the mainstream (where Jason Moran, Avishai Cohen and Ben Allison are but three players off the top of my head who are doing genuinely interesting things, all completely different from one another). Rather, it's because I don't ever foresee a time when jazz will return to the level of social cache and societal awareness that it enjoyed in the pre-rock days, when it was still the pop music of choice. For better or for worse, when Charlie Parker took the music out of the dance halls and made it more self-consciously an artform, that spelled the end of its mass popularity. The music is richer for it, but the culture got a chance to take a pass and look for less challenging fare. I'd also hazard a guess that Parker, Davis and Coltrane aren't as "popular" as all that. Most music lovers seem compelled to add 'Kind of Blue' to their collections (much like the tacet requirement that every record collection in Long Island must include a copy of 'Bat Out of Hell'), but how many people truly know Miles Davis's career? And if you did a Jay Leno-style walkaround and asked the average person on the street, do you think that many people would know Parker or Coltrane? We on the list perceive them as icons, as does Burns, evidently, but we're all distinctly NOT the societal norm and neither is he. That said, I do think it was irresponsible and misleading for Burns to arbitrarily neglect the avant-garde, fusion, and Latin jazz, all critically important developments that can't be overlooked if the objective is to create a truly representative history of the music. (Mind you, I've not seen the series in advance; I can only make judgement from what I've read and from a talk by Burns back in January...) It goes back to what I quoted Matt Shipp yesterday as having said about the "death industry": Burns seems to have essentially canonized the music, set it up on a museum pedestal, and overlooked the fact that innovation and new developments are still taking place. If he does take heed of Marsalis and his ilk, to my mind that simply reinforces the notion that jazz is now a finite canon, a repertoire in which new developments are overlooked in favor of recreations and imitations. The thing I'll be most curious to see is the ratings the series garners when it's aired. I think it will do much, much worse than the Civil War and baseball series did, because jazz is so much further from mass awareness. The appeal won't be as great, I fear, and I don't really anticipate a groundswell in jazz market share; at best, we might see a quick blip. But lest anyone take this as a whole lot of doom and gloom, read what I said above again. As an artform, jazz is healthier and more diverse than ever. Your turn, Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com >> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Ken Burns' 'Jazz' film Date: 16 Nov 2000 13:40:10 -0800 On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 16:22:33 EST Samerivertwice@aol.com wrote: > > but is unable to break any new ground. And I will defend Wynton to the teeth > for the same reasons you, Steve, defend Kenny G. If it weren't for Marsalis, > the jazz selection at your local CD store would be even thinner than it is > now. Bless him for bringing jazz -- of ANY kind -- to the masses. We need Kenny G because he is the perfect musician for people who don't care about music. And I guess they also deserve someone :-). On the sad note side, Tower Records in Portland used to have a room entirely dedicated to classical music. A few years ago (when Tower Records was wondering how to call new age music -- adult instrumental or acoustic classical), they moved the new age music section to the classical one. Since the new age section was small, it was not too bad. Unfortunately, a couple months ago they also moved the jazz section to the classical room... Have people noticed the same thing elsewhere? Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Ken Burns' 'Jazz' film Date: 16 Nov 2000 16:41:00 -0500 Samerivertwice@aol.com wrote: > Wynton [snip] rather reminds me of the Salieri > character played by F. Murray Abrahams (sp?) in "Amadeus." This analogy, of course, leaves us in the rather amusing position of casting his Mozart, now, doesn't it? ;-) I prefer to think of Wynton as Czar Nicholas, claiming the spoils of the empire and banishing those who would stand against him, with Stanley Crouch as his personal Rasputin, the dark and vaguely threatening court madman running the show behind the scenes. William Parker can play Karl Marx in exile, en"Vision"ing a workers' utopia, but I just don't see a Lenin waiting in the wings. Threatening to derail an otherwise lucid train of thought, Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Joe McPhee/David Prentice, "The Garden - Part 1," 'Inside Out' (CIMP) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nils Subject: Re: shipp "retirement" Date: 16 Nov 2000 17:00:42 -0500 i talked to him right before he retired, and this is what he had to say: "i actually do feel, and i don’t mean this egotistically, but i kinda have put out my vision on vinyl already, so my basic body of work is now done. i feel i have completed a unit. i really feel a sense of completion. i have attempted to execute a execute a certain body of work, and that music is now documented. the primary body is now done, i feel that strongly. i feel from my inside that the primary body has now been put out in the world. i really feel that people have a need to digest it, i’ve been working at such a manic rate of sorts that i need time to think... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: Ken Burns' 'Jazz' film Date: 16 Nov 2000 14:36:45 -0800 (PST) --- "Patrice L. Roussel" wrote: > Is it really > surprising that when a contemporary > classical record raises above obscurity, it is by a > composer who goes back to > old values like melody, feeling, easy rhythm > (Gorecky, Nyman, Part)? > > Should we still believe that most Occidental > audiences have been brainwashed > by major/minor sclales and binary rhythms, and that > one day they will see > the light? Not at all, but I think that there's nothing fundamental (no pun intended) about Western tonality. You state your comments well when you refer to "older" values: that's all they are----older. The time they've had to accumulate has created a kind of "dominance through accretion". There are many fewer of us who would go through the pain of challenging and stripping away this cultural conditioning, but it has nothing to do with getting to the truth, as Steve suggested (I think). It's much more about truth being "made rather than found". Saying, "this, _too_, can be beautiful"...or useful, or interesting. I think it's undertstandably disheartening to see the Crouchian historical revisionism so blatantly exhibited by such a talented filmmaker. Disappointing, yes. Surprising, no. Should we be so "used" to the more marginal forms of the tradition being, well, marginalized? No, we'll always be a little bothered by that. At least those of us who listen to the music becuase it's beautiful, fun, fascinating, challenging to us; but what of those of us who.... > love the obscure, right? In this case why are we > complaining that nobody sees us? ... > And frankly, if most media would acknowledge "our" > music (since some people > on the list feel sad about their total lack of > interest for it), wouldn't > we be pissed? Where would be the underdog feeling so > important for audiences > of obscure forms of art? This is a shabby reason to enjoy anything, except perhaps nature. Really, wallowing in obscurity, and the trainspotting that is attendant upon it, reeks of cowardice and resentment. If the best I can do to assert my individuality in an adverstising- and media-addled culture is to collect the rarest 7"es by the most obscure artists possible, to assemble about myself a habitat of defining strangeness, isn't this "anti-consumerism" in the sense of the word "anti-hero"? As in: an opposite, but inextricable from its conjoined evil twin. Do _you_ listen to this music _for_ its obscurity, or in spite of its obscurity? Restated: in the music that you listen to, are the most unique and enjoyable aspects only possible in a state of economic [meant in several senses of the word] obscurity? Fine, but do you not still listen _for those aspects_? And how would we know what's possible with a modicum of exposure? AT any rate, my arguement is against the cyncism that seem to be implicit in a statement like: > This is a thrilling experience to feel different by > not listening to the same > music as your next door neighbour, but if we feel > lonely or left aside (by > most media), where is the fault? I see. Could it be even remotely possible that there are sensual pleasures present in an "obscure" release that I _can't get_ listening to, say, the SPice Girls? (But Jim O'Rourke can, good for him; I envy him!) This has been my experience. It bothers me that I can't share this with others, that it bores/offends them. Not everyone is as generous and good as I am, and those people loathe most people who are unlike them, and provide for cold receptions to "outsiders" at otherwise interesting shows. They might or might not give a shit about the art/film/music/dance that's happening; they are only interested in the cultural capital of marginality. But what if we sense that challenging music could, figuratively, literally, change the world? Our desire would be to not proselytize, but to offer an option. To do exactly the opposite of what you imply. Saying what you have said is a bit like the conservative remarks that "to be liberal at the age of forty is to not have a brain" or "a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged", or suggestions that liberals and leftists don't _really_ want the word to improve because then they'd be without a cause, and maybe without a job. I find it kind of dismissive. It really smarts when someone whose hsitorical vision seems so far-reaching is so exclusive. But good food for thought, as always, Patrice. > Patrice (who feels that "his" music gets more media > coverage than > its relative obscurity really deserves and feels > very lucky > for that). ------s, who agrees but wishes some of the Ken Vandermark press went to TV Pow et al __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: Ken Burns' 'Jazz' film Date: 16 Nov 2000 14:53:32 -0800 (PST) --- Steve Smith wrote: > I prefer to think of Wynton as Czar Nicholas, > claiming the spoils of the empire > and banishing those who would stand against him, > with Stanley Crouch as his > personal Rasputin, the dark and vaguely threatening > court madman running the show > behind the scenes. William Parker can play Karl > Marx in exile, en"Vision"ing a > workers' utopia, but I just don't see a Lenin > waiting in the wings. William Parker hasn't the spleen to be Marx. I think Zorn's a damn good Marx and has the sufficient piss, vinegar, and polymathy to prove it. But then who is Marx's Engels, who is the second banana? ----s, prepared to further derail the train of thought P.S. Incidentally, to keep this post even remotely topical, I did pick up (and put back down...it's pricey!) the companion book to the JAZZ series. Beautiful coffee-table book, though I didn't get a chance to read any of it; thick with fine photos, though. Gary Giddins, whose writing I love, has a rather long article on "avant-garde jazz", which I read through too quickly to savor. The article seems even-handed and well-written, and is by means a paean; I encourage all of you with limited incomes to loiter and check it out. -----s, who must be the Louis Proyect of improvised music: "Hot to 'Trot'"! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Taylor McLaren Subject: Teeny-tiny classical rooms. Date: 16 Nov 2000 20:56:16 -0500 MEEP! "Patrice L. Roussel" wrote: >On the sad note side, Tower Records in Portland used to have a room entirely >dedicated to classical music.... Unfortunately, a couple months ago they also >moved the jazz section to the classical room... Have people noticed the same >thing elsewhere? Definitely, and I'd like to deposit a steaming coil of blame for this in the collective lap of the bean-counters who have made the recording industry so depressing to watch lately. As the stunning lack of variety in big-budget entertainment these days should tell you, Faceless and Evil Multinational Corporations(tm) have long since dumped everything other than certified platinum recording artists and their legions of clones from their stable of newly-acquired labels, and niche markets like classical and jazz were pretty much cut to the bone in the name of Sound Business Practice as a result. Chain stores who buy primarily from these labels' distribution networks have suddenly got a lot less to stock in these fields, and so many more 5.1 Dolby Digital DVD re-issues of cinematic classics like "Planes, Trains and Automobiles" on order that it only seems reasonable to pack what's left over into the Old Fart Rooms, no? Back on the positive side of things, however, these little isolation tanks frequently have doors that separate them from the rest of the stores that house them, meaning that you might not have to listen to Christina Aguilera while you browse through the racks. (It's also not much better in the areas that used to cater exclusively to hip-hop.) -me - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Corporate Art Date: 17 Nov 2000 13:56:26 +1100 I found a copy of this cd second hand (for those who don't know, it's Bobby Previte, Mark Helias, Christy Doran and Gary Thomas). Anyone know what's it like? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Oger Subject: Re: European On-line shps Date: 17 Nov 2000 07:47:07 +0100 (CET) marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl writes: << Hi, I'd need info on European On-line shops (cds, books) worth recommendation. Thanks, Marcin >> METAMKINE http://metamkine.free.fr/ IMPROJAZZ http://perso.wanadoo.fr/improjazz Jacques Oger - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Ken Burns' 'Jazz' film Date: 17 Nov 2000 02:09:23 -0500 Scott Handley wrote: > William Parker hasn't the spleen to be Marx. I think > Zorn's a damn good Marx and has the sufficient piss, > vinegar, and polymathy to prove it. But then who is > Marx's Engels, who is the second banana? Zorn's not Marx, he's postwar Japan. He doesn't want to take over the world by force; he just wants to offer it more interesting and multifarious products to consume, and in overwhelming quantities. ;-) Given his activities in community pride and rabble-rousing, not to mention his willingness to sweep the floor at his own festival, I remain steadfast in my positioning of Parker as Marx. His wife Patricia Nicholson can be Engels, and Matt Shipp clearly *wants* the role of Lenin (and is already clutching at the reins of institutional power in order to further his vision). But in the name of fun, if we're furthering your analogy of Zorn-as-Marx, I elect Anthony Coleman, as little-recognized and undervalued as Engels himself. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Joe McPhee & Dominic Duval, "Beyond the Truth/Lies," 'The Dream Book' (Cadence) - just back from a spectacular show by the two aforementioned... and Roy Campbell, with a rhythm section previously unknown to me - bassist/tuba player Tom Abbs and drummer Chad Taylor - also thoroughly rocked my world... over to you, Kurt... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Evan Parker/Joel Ryan in NYC in March Date: 17 Nov 2000 03:28:25 EST the EMF recently opened a new venue in NYC, Engine 27, for live electronic music of different varieties. the Australian quartet Machine For Making Sense is playing there next Tuesday, and they just added the duo of Evan Parker and Joel Ryan to their schedule for next March. full schedule and more info at: www.emf.org/cgi-bin/cal_search.pl?keywords=xe27 Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: Never again Zorn Date: 17 Nov 2000 11:34:55 GMT Hello, >Didn't Zorn release a Merzbow album on Tzadik though? Of course! My mistake, what was I thinking? ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Chad Taylor Date: 17 Nov 2000 12:54:35 CET >From: Steve Smith > >NP - Joe McPhee & Dominic Duval, "Beyond the Truth/Lies," 'The Dream >Book' (Cadence) - just back from a spectacular show by the two >aforementioned... and Roy Campbell, with a rhythm section previously >unknown to me - bassist/tuba player Tom Abbs and drummer Chad Taylor - >also thoroughly rocked my world... over to you, Kurt... Chad Taylor is an interesting drummer from Chicago. I´ve seen him last year in a meeting of the Fred Anderson Trio and Tortoise in Frankfurt and in one the best concerts last year: Fred Anderson Trio at the Moers festival (with Harrison Bankhead). Beside this Chad Taylor is present on the outstanding Alan Licht - Loren Mazzacane-Connors recording Hoffman Estate (with Jim O´Rourke, Ken Vandermark and others). I haven´t heard of Tom Abbs before... Andreas _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: Chad Taylor Date: 17 Nov 2000 07:19:01 -0500 > Chad Taylor is an interesting drummer from Chicago. I=B4ve seen him las= t year > in a meeting of the Fred Anderson Trio and Tortoise in Frankfurt and in one > the best concerts last year: Fred Anderson Trio at the Moers festival (with > Harrison Bankhead). > Beside this Chad Taylor is present on the outstanding Alan Licht - Lore= n > Mazzacane-Connors recording Hoffman Estate (with Jim O=B4Rourke, Ken > Vandermark and others). He's also in the Chicago Underground Duo/Trio/Quartet, and he plays on Sa= m Prekop's solo CD. -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: McPhee Date: 17 Nov 2000 07:49:40 -0500 At 02:09 AM 11/17/00 -0500, Steve Smith wrote: > >NP - Joe McPhee & Dominic Duval, "Beyond the Truth/Lies," 'The Dream >Book' (Cadence) Speaking of McPhee and Cadence, the November issue has an interview with McPhee in which he discusses a project he did with Trevor Dunn, 'bass player with a kind of rock group'. Anyone hear this? Was it recorded? Has Dunn performed with any other avant musicians? -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fag music" Subject: Dunn Date: 17 Nov 2000 06:52:01 -0800 Well, Trevor Dunn is Mr.Bungle's bassist...but it's funny how people on avant-garde consider Bungle ''kind of a rock group''...haahahah. Anyway,Trevor Dunn has a commented discography on http://www.ozramp.net.au/~alien/trd.html ,check it out.Hmmmm,lemme ask then:why is it that people consider Bungle to be kind of a rock band?I suppose some may think this cause Patton sings on it...anyone? Platypusses, Travolta >Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 07:49:40 -0500 >To: Zorn-List >From: "Caleb T. Deupree" >Subject: Re: McPhee > >At 02:09 AM 11/17/00 -0500, Steve Smith wrote: >> >>NP - Joe McPhee & Dominic Duval, "Beyond the Truth/Lies," 'The Dream >>Book' (Cadence) > >Speaking of McPhee and Cadence, the November issue has an interview with >McPhee in which he discusses a project he did with Trevor Dunn, 'bass >player with a kind of rock group'. Anyone hear this? Was it recorded? >Has Dunn performed with any other avant musicians? > >-- >Caleb Deupree >cdeupree@erinet.com > >Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance >like nobody's watching. > >-- Satchel Paige > >- http://e2893.37.com/Free-E-Card/ <--- You Have A Greeting :) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fag music" Subject: Damn....Dunn again Date: 17 Nov 2000 06:54:26 -0800 QWgsDQogICB5ZWFoLEkgZm9yZ290LkkgaGF2ZSBGYW509G1hcyx3aGljaCBoYXMgRHVubiBv biBiYXNzLGFuZCBpcyBncmVhdC5BbHNvLERlYnV0YW50cyBhbmQgQ2VudGlwZWRlcyxUcmV2 b3IncyBzb2xvIGFsYnVtLGhhcyBzb21lIGdvb2Qgc3R1ZmYsdG9vLkp1c3Qgc28geW91IGtu b3cuDQpDaGFyaXRpZXMsDQpEZXNlcnQgc2VhcmNoIGZvciB0ZWNobm8gQWxsYWgNCg0KPkRh dGU6IEZyaSwgMTcgTm92IDIwMDAgMDc6NDk6NDAgLTA1MDANCj5UbzogWm9ybi1MaXN0IDx6 b3JuLWxpc3RAbGlzdHMueG1pc3Npb24uY29tPg0KPkZyb206ICJDYWxlYiBULiBEZXVwcmVl IiA8Y2RldXByZWVAZXJpbmV0LmNvbT4NCj5TdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogTWNQaGVlDQo+DQo+QXQg MDI6MDkgQU0gMTEvMTcvMDAgLTA1MDAsIFN0ZXZlIFNtaXRoIHdyb3RlOg0KPj4NCj4+TlAg LSBKb2UgTWNQaGVlICYgRG9taW5pYyBEdXZhbCwgIkJleW9uZCB0aGUgVHJ1dGgvTGllcywi ICdUaGUgRHJlYW0NCj4+Qm9vaycgKENhZGVuY2UpDQo+DQo+U3BlYWtpbmcgb2YgTWNQaGVl IGFuZCBDYWRlbmNlLCB0aGUgTm92ZW1iZXIgaXNzdWUgaGFzIGFuIGludGVydmlldyB3aXRo DQo+TWNQaGVlIGluIHdoaWNoIGhlIGRpc2N1c3NlcyBhIHByb2plY3QgaGUgZGlkIHdpdGgg VHJldm9yIER1bm4sICdiYXNzDQo+cGxheWVyIHdpdGggYSBraW5kIG9mIHJvY2sgZ3JvdXAn LiAgQW55b25lIGhlYXIgdGhpcz8gIFdhcyBpdCByZWNvcmRlZD8NCj5IYXMgRHVubiBwZXJm b3JtZWQgd2l0aCBhbnkgb3RoZXIgYXZhbnQgbXVzaWNpYW5zPw0KPg0KPi0tDQo+Q2FsZWIg RGV1cHJlZQ0KPmNkZXVwcmVlQGVyaW5ldC5jb20NCj4NCj5Xb3JrIGxpa2UgeW91IGRvbid0 IG5lZWQgdGhlIG1vbmV5LiBMb3ZlIGxpa2UgeW91J3ZlIG5ldmVyIGJlZW4gaHVydC4gRGFu Y2UNCj5saWtlIG5vYm9keSdzIHdhdGNoaW5nLg0KPg0KPi0tIFNhdGNoZWwgUGFpZ2UNCj4N Cj4tDQoNCg0KDQoNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KaHR0cDovL2UyODkzLjM3LmNvbS9GcmVlLUUtQ2FyZC8g ICAgPC0tLSBZb3UgSGF2ZSBBIEdyZWV0aW5nICA6KQ0KDQoNCg== - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bryan E Cornell" Subject: Re: brad shepik effects? Date: 17 Nov 2000 09:57:57 -0500 When I saw Shepik at the Library of Congress with the Tiny Bell Trio he had a mighty Rat distortion pedal of all things. Surprisingly, I never heard the 1980's heavy-metal sound for which this box is renowned which is something of an achievement in itself. Bryan Cornell >>> "Julian" 11/14 3:14 AM >>> Does anyone know whether Brad Shepik uses any effects units (particularly in the Tiny Bell Trio)? - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: FW: sounds of christmas Date: 17 Nov 2000 10:10:29 -0500 Forwarded from some other mailing list. (gossip: Has archivist and=20 collector marclay taken up otomo's tendencies to transvestism ?) - - --- --- - - -- - - - - Christian Marclay's "The Sounds of Christmas" At the New Museum of Contemporary Art / Media Z Lounge (basement level) 583 Broadway between Houston & Prince Sts. New York, NY 10012 212-219-1222 http://www.newmuseum.org Installation and Performances December 14 - 31, 2000 This holiday season the New Museum of Contemporary Art's Media Z Lounge will feature artist and composer Christian Marclay with "The Sounds of Christmas." For this installation and performance series, Marclay has collected and archived over one thousand Christmas records. This vinyl collection is catalogued on a computer database and six videos documenting the album covers. A dozen deejays are invited to mix this seasonal music during four scheduled events. Some of New York's most original turntablists will be performing, including DJ Olive, Toshio Kajiwara, DJ Singe, the 5th Platoon, and Marclay himself, among others. The deejays will be limited to using the Christmas records in the collection. This presentation at the New Museum is the second annual installment of "The Sounds of Christmas," which was originally commissioned by and presented at ArtPace in San Antonio, Texas in December 1999. "The Sounds of Christmas" will be on view December 14 -31, 2000 Performances are from 6 to 9 pm admission is free: Thurs. DECEMBER 14: (opening party) Toshio Kajiwara (of Ferris_Wheel, of phonomena=B0) Darryl Hell (of EBN fame) Christian Marclay (Santa Claus) Sat. DECEMBER 16: Justin Boyd (from San Antonio Texas) DJ Singe (of Soundlab fame) Hahn Rowe aka Somatic (on Caipirinha) Sat. DECEMBER 23: DJ Olive, the Audio Janitor (of theAgriculture=B0, of phonomena=B0) Marina Rosenfeld (turntable opera diva) Chris Sattinger aka Timeblind (turntables w/ powerbook) Sat. DECEMBER 30: 5th Platoon with: DJ Roli Rho (2X Vibe World Champion) DJ Kuttin Kandi (Source Champion) DJ Daddy Dog (Rawkus Mixtape Winner) DJ Neil Armstrong (5th-Platoon Founder) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: L.M. Connors (was re: Chad Taylor) Date: 17 Nov 2000 08:03:43 -0800 (PST) > > Beside this Chad Taylor is present on the > outstanding Alan Licht - Loren > > Mazzacane-Connors recording Hoffman Estate (with > Jim O´Rourke, Ken > > Vandermark and others). I second Andreas' appreciation of HOFFMAN ESTATES (the album). Hard rockin guitar hero Kevin Drumm is also present on at least a few tracks. I'm under the impression that Jim O'Rourke edited and presented the material---many hours of improv---with a kind of Teo Macero strategy, paring free-range improv down to a more economical scale (a rather short album for a day of improv---forty minutes, I think). Two related questions: 1. What are the key points of Loren Mazzacane Connors' discography? (Hope this ahsn't been asked yet.) The guy is pretty prolific, and I've only heard the DAGGET YEARS box, which of course I have not made all the way through, as it is frankly confusing and terrifying to me. Four full CDs of early obscure vinyl, Loren playing steaknife acoustic guitar (?), with an uncanny resemblance to some of Alex Schlippenbach's inside-the-piano-with-metals work; there's also a lot of wordless howling; I think it's blues. 2. Though this might not be the list to ask, did anyone see Signal to Noise, the band with Vandermark, Kevin Drumm, and a guy named STeve Butters (haven't heard of him before), when they performed regularly? What were the shows like? Thanks, ----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daryl Loomis" Subject: Re: Dunn Date: 17 Nov 2000 08:08:09 -0800 You are absolutely right about Trevor Dunn. The album that completely = convinced me of this is Trevor Dunn's Trio Convulsant "Debutants & = Centipedes." It is a great album and is far removed from the "rock" songs = that Bungle does. =20 Also, checking out the discography, I realize that I have just acquired = another disc featuring Dunn. John Schott's Shuffle Play: Elegy for the = Recording Angel. I hadn't listened to it, but just began it and so far, = it's quite interesting. =20 Daryl Loomis >>> "Fag music" 11/17 6:52 AM >>> Well, Trevor Dunn is Mr.Bungle's bassist...but it's funny how people on = avant-garde consider Bungle ''kind of a rock group''...haahahah. Anyway,Trevor Dunn has a commented discography on http://www.ozramp.net= .au/~alien/trd.html ,check it out.Hmmmm,lemme ask then:why is it that = people consider Bungle to be kind of a rock band?I suppose some may think = this cause Patton sings on it...anyone? Platypusses, Travolta - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: FW: sounds of christmas Date: 17 Nov 2000 08:38:55 -0800 (PST) --- Benjamin Pequet wrote: > Forwarded from some other mailing list. (gossip: Has > archivist and > collector marclay taken up otomo's tendencies to > transvestism ?) Whoa! Clearly I'm out of the loop. I knew crossdressing was a kind of outrageous fun in Japan, but somehow I had Otomo pegged for a stoic. You go, girl! You better work! (What, _does_ Otomo dress in women's clothing for shows? Does Marclay?) ----s, cher-fabulous __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Chad Taylor Date: 17 Nov 2000 11:39:54 -0500 Andreas Dietz wrote: > Chad Taylor is an interesting drummer from Chicago. I=B4ve seen him las= t year > in a meeting of the Fred Anderson Trio and Tortoise in Frankfurt and in= one > the best concerts last year: Fred Anderson Trio at the Moers festival (= with > Harrison Bankhead). > Beside this Chad Taylor is present on the outstanding Alan Licht - Lore= n > Mazzacane-Connors recording Hoffman Estate (with Jim O=B4Rourke, Ken > Vandermark and others). Thanks to Andreas and everybody else who chimed in on Chad - I knew I'd s= een his name before, but couldn't remember where. He was a versatile and economical drummer, able to shift from clear, stuttering funk beats to intricate, shifting freetime with great ease. And all of this with a pared-down kit of just snare, floor tom, bass drum, hi-hat, ride cymbal a= nd cowbell. > I haven=B4t heard of Tom Abbs before... I think he's local and assume that he was one of the organizers of the sh= ow, given that he was collecting money at the door. He had an interesting approach, with a bamboo digeridoo strapped across his bass, amplifying bo= th bowing and breathing. He has a muscular playing style and his tuba work = is pretty fine besides. Definitely someone I'll be watching out for. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: FW: sounds of christmas Date: 17 Nov 2000 11:58:42 EST In a message dated 11/17/00 11:41:18 AM, thesubtlebody@yahoo.com writes: << (What, _does_ Otomo dress in women's clothing for shows? Does Marclay?) >> jeez, no. terre thaemlitz certainly might, though, but I've never seen him perform, I'm just going from the Wire photos a few years ago. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Diego Gruber" Subject: RE: Dunn Date: 17 Nov 2000 18:09:37 +0100 Dunn played with Masada for a while didn't he? I wonder what the opinions on Dunn's participation are. I think Bungle's music has a rock basis indeed, but I think they've been able to reach limits of what can be done with it, to an extent i don't think anyone else has. But perhaps it is Patton's popularity and the hard to remove FNM association that makes it hard for Bungle to be more openly appreciated among certain circles. Pretty ironic considering they are also rejected on the mainstream for being considered "too weird". But fortunately they've a big enough bunch of dedicated supporters who'll be there when the novelty grows old. D. > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]En nombre de Daryl Loomis > Enviado el: Freitag, 17. November 2000 17:08 > Para: pattonsucks@37.com; cdeupree@erinet.com; > zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Asunto: Re: Dunn > > > You are absolutely right about Trevor Dunn. The album that > completely convinced me of this is Trevor Dunn's Trio Convulsant > "Debutants & Centipedes." It is a great album and is far removed > from the "rock" songs that Bungle does. > > Also, checking out the discography, I realize that I have just > acquired another disc featuring Dunn. John Schott's Shuffle > Play: Elegy for the Recording Angel. I hadn't listened to it, > but just began it and so far, it's quite interesting. > > Daryl Loomis > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Ken Burns' 'Jazz' film Date: 17 Nov 2000 12:33:51 -0500 (EST) Hm, to take the historical revisionism a bit further. I think it would be more appropriate to see Cecil Taylor as Marx, the man who first came up with the theories, then William Parker as Lenin and John Zorn as Trotsky, with different factions aiming for a similar revolution. But, of course, this leaves the problem of who on the Wynton side would be Kerensky -- Roy Hargrove, Jon Faddis, Joshua Redman. And, more seriously, who on the other side can afford to be Stalin? Ken Waxman --- Steve Smith wrote: I prefer to think of Wynton as Czar Nicholas, > claiming the spoils of the empire > and banishing those who would stand against him, > with Stanley Crouch as his personal Rasputin, the dark and vaguely threatening court madman running the show behind the scenes. William Parker can play Karl > Marx in exile, en"Vision"ing a > workers' utopia, but I just don't see a Lenin > waiting in the wings. _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: RE: L.M. Connors (was re: Chad Taylor) Date: 17 Nov 2000 10:36:52 -0700 >1. What are the key points of Loren Mazzacane Connors' >discography? (Hope this ahsn't been asked yet.) The >guy is pretty prolific, and I've only heard the DAGGET >YEARS box, That's where I started as well. I hear that the following are rather neccesary: 9th Avenue Hell's Kitchen Park In Twilight (and the box you've mentioned) I can only vouch for 9th ave. Apparently Connors believes "Airs" is his best recording achievment but I think many listeners dissagree including people on this list. I also enjoy In Bern Evangeline and Hell Hell Hell... but these may not be as crutial. Matt Wirzbicki - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: McPhee Date: 17 Nov 2000 12:45:12 -0500 (EST) What's more interesting is that in that same interview, McPhee says in 1968 he recorded a session with Dewey Redman (ts), David Izenzon (b), Earl Cross (tmpt) and "I can't remember the drummer's name". He goes on to say: "They were going to take it to Blue Note and Blue Note thought it had no commercial possibilities whatsoever. So I don't know what happened to it." Sounds like something that could (should) be released. Ken Waxman --- "Caleb T. Deupree" wrote: > Speaking of McPhee and Cadence, the November issue > has an interview with McPhee in which he discusses a project he did with Trevor Dunn, 'bass player with a kind of rock group'. Anyone hear this? Was it recorded? Has Dunn performed with any other avant musicians? _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: Otomo Yoshihide/Ground-Zero Date: 17 Nov 2000 09:47:51 -0800 (PST) --- Bill Ashline wrote: > >the real question, if you ask me, is "how much more > to be said with > >saxophones?" > > A lot's been said thus far. An awful lot. But I > happen to agree. If the > avant-garde itself has anything new to say, the > space is and will be in > electro-acoustic improv. This statement is inscrutable. It's tinged with the same presumption of capacity that characterizes the rhetoric of exhaustion. But, that said: a damn lot has been said on the damn saxophone, and there not only IS an enormous amount of fascinating, diverse electro/acoustic music being made now, but there has been for decades. That statement is safer, if less enlightening. My music budget is in massive deficit almost exclusively to sound matter of this "sensibility" or "approach". This list is my most valuable resource, and for the e/a stuff in particular I owe Caleb, Jon, Brian O, Ashline and number of other folks big ups. But enough sunshine... > One place to look for the saxophone in all this is > in Evan Parker's "Live at Les Instants Chavires" > which I bought last night. I super-second this. It's fab, and I think I dig it a lot more than the SOLAR WIND collaboration with Casserley (which is, though, just fine). The "live" component, the immediacy of the sound, the lack of cavernous "Eich-o" and reverb which clipped the edges off the two ECM e/a ensemble recs...Parker's saxophone seems here to be a lot more susceptible to the electronics, and the direct sound of the sax is very dry, very close. A superbad outing from a group that should have had another record by now. > A David Ware inherits > this tradition and does so very well, but he doesn't > have the same > sensibility, the same urgency. I gues at this point, when I buy a record, I really want it to be _different_ in some way. I'd never expect this of other listeners----gods bless the discographer's persistence! long live obesession!---but do _I_ really need another loud sax record? No. Though I will recommend to fans of free jazz the newest Assif Tsahar (tenro sax/bassclar) record with Peter Kowald (bass) and Rashied Ali (drms). It's really fine, though not ground-breaking; hard to say what makes it so different, but the recording quality is really fine, especially for Kowald, who comes out sounding particularly trebley, round, and resonant. Some committed playing by Tsahar, bordering on the puckish. Much more than a tiresome blowout, which is how I feel about most of David S. Ware I've heard. -----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: Ken Burns' 'Jazz' film Date: 17 Nov 2000 09:52:09 -0800 (PST) --- Ken Waxman wrote: > Hm, to take the historical revisionism a bit > further....who on the other side can afford > to be Stalin? Pierre Boulez, perhaps? (The scene-analogy doesn't hold, I know...) ----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Otomo Yoshihide/Ground-Zero Date: 17 Nov 2000 12:54:19 EST In a message dated 11/17/0 9:48:55 AM, thesubtlebody@yahoo.com wrote: < avant-garde itself has anything new to say, the > space is and will be in > electro-acoustic improv. >> That's kind of a broad statement to make, especially in light of how many musics develop to the point of fostering an avant-garde. Have accoustic instruments as a sonic family run out of new sounds to make? Is the need for electronic instruments so crucial to make any new statement? Personally, I hold no brief against electronic instruments or the people who use them (and I think this includes all manner of devices from the Hammond B-3 to the turntable and beyond), but to state categorically that one type of improvising unilaterally holds the key seems a little limiting to me. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Ninh tour photo diary Date: 17 Nov 2000 12:56:42 EST Le Quan Ninh is keeping a photo diary of his US tour, with new uploads after every show, on his web site at: http://ninh.free.fr/ Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: nyc blues fan needed Date: 17 Nov 2000 12:56:57 -0500 i have 2 tix to the sun night autumn blues fest at symphony space to see Super Chikan and the Fighting Cocks, Eddie Cusic that it turns out i can't use. first person to email me with the correct spelling of 'chicken' gets them. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Otomo Yoshihide/Ground-Zero Date: 17 Nov 2000 13:01:33 -0500 Scott Handley wrote: > Much more than a > tiresome blowout, which is how I feel about most of > David S. Ware I've heard. Ironically, I just heard last night that a synthesizer was at center stage for David S. Ware's performance at the Knitting Factory last week, and that both Ware and Shipp took turns on it. This was evidently cause for quite a bit of amused and/or bewildered head scratching. I wasn't there and can't report on this - just passing along the word. A very different take on electro-acoustic improv, I'd venture to guess... ;-) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: re: mcphee Date: 17 Nov 2000 18:04:15 GMT >Speaking of McPhee and Cadence, the November issue has an interview with >McPhee in which he discusses a project he did with Trevor Dunn, 'bass >player with a kind of rock group'. Anyone hear this? Was it recorded? >Has Dunn performed with any other avant musicians? I'd be interested in hearing more about that. MAybe I should renew my Cadence supscription... I think somebody mentioned Dunn plays in Mr. Bungle. He's also done several things with Ben Goldberg and John Schott (including Junk Genius), plus Graham Connah (Sour Note Six/Seven and his jazz-rock-psyche-prog group Jettison Slinky, who have a really cool album that came out maybe a year ago), Miya Masaoka, Bob Ostertag. He's played in a lot of rhythm sections with Kenny Wollesen on drums. I guess he played with MAsada on the west coast in the mid '90s but I never saw or heard that. He has a solo album w/ Wollesen plus ADam Levy on guitar; he described it as being equally inspired by Ahmad Jamal, the Melvins and some surrealist writers, and it actually sounds like that, without being a pastiche. Finally he played in another "kind of rock group" (Secret Chiefs 3) and also plays in the "kind of metal group" Fantomas w/ Patton, Buzz from the Melvins on guitar, and DAve Lombardo on drums. (more Zorn connections there). On that note, is anyone here in the Bay ARea and going to the FantomasMelvins "Big Band" show on New Year's Eve at Slims? I got my ticket yesterday... WY _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: mcphee/abbs/taylor Date: 17 Nov 2000 13:07:09 -0500 ssmithsaid: just back from a spectacular show by the two aforementioned... and Roy Campbell, with a rhythm section previously unknown to me - bassist/tuba player Tom Abbs and drummer Chad Taylor - also thoroughly rocked my world... over to you, Kurt... aw, shucks. well, since you invited. tom abbs is the primary force behind the artists' collective JumpArts. (i'm not a part of jump, although the series i work on, neues kabarett at the brecht forum, has copresented a few fests with them, and will be again in jan.) last nights $5 triple bill (!) was one a jump production. jump is a nonprofit and has been active in getting grant money, thus their ability to put on consistently strong shows for low cover charges. but enough administrative stuff. tom is a great bassist who has grown exponentially in the last couple years. he plays with a didjeridoo strapped to his upright, a high hat next to him and he doubles on tuba, often combining most at a time. not about novelty, tho. the guy just needs to make a lot of sound. chad i've seen play a few times, but last night was the most impressive to date. i believe he also plays with the david boykins outet in chicago and is recording with abbs and another great jumper, pianist andrew bemkey. there's nothing like a bassist and drummer in sympathy. witness william parker and hamid drake. witness _anybody_ and hamid drake. abbs and taylor have something going on. roy campbell i don't need to champion here (i hope). he's one of the great trumpet players around, and a strong rhythm section only pushes him that much more. abbs and taylor are playing the internet cafe on 3d st. in manhattan with daniel carter sometime soon, i believe. sorry i don't have specifics. and joe mcphee is fast becoming one of my all-time faves. thanks, steve, for bringing it up. i'd feel silly raving like a fanboy if i had to introduce the subject myself. kg np: cantar en cuba 'i am time' (cuban 4-disc comp on blue jackel) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: electroaccoustic dressed up as the vanguard Date: 17 Nov 2000 13:28:14 -0500 without calling names, someone said: < collector marclay taken up otomo's tendencies to transvestism ?) i too am unaware of otomo donning women's clothes, but hoppy kamiyama, his former bandmate in optical*8, is quite fond of doing so, and looks pretty good, too. i saw him in a hilarious, energetic and musically compelling duo called stravinsky's dick with demi semi quaver vocalist emi eleonla (i imagine that's spelled wrong). he was dressed as a woman and she was, uh, wearing cut up pieces of stuffed animals all over her. i read an interview with hoppy where he said he rarely wears drag in the u.s., tho. in japan it's just funny and part of the show, he said, but here everyone asks him if he's gay over and over. someone else said: < avant-garde itself has anything new to say, the > space is and will be in > electro-acoustic improv. well, that's silly. instruments are tools. 'avant-garde' is a label. it's people that either have something to say or don't. what tools they choose is by and large beside the point. kg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: " A.VanValin" Subject: Re: Dunn Date: 17 Nov 2000 10:09:57 -0800 ----- Original Message ----- > But perhaps it is Patton's popularity and the hard to > remove FNM association Anyone who's seen Patton/Zorn as a live duo would, I think, be over the 'FNM association'. Patton also holds his own in Cobra sets. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fag music" Subject: Said and Dunn Date: 17 Nov 2000 10:54:16 -0800 WWVhaCwNCiAgIGFsc28gb24gdGhvc2UgdHdvIHNvbG9zLEFkdWx0IHRoZW1lcyBmb3Igdm9p Y2UgYW5kIFByYW56byBPbHRyYW56aXN0YS5DYW4ndCBzYXkgSSdtIHJlYWxseSBpbnRvIHRo ZXNlIG9uZSxidXQgdGhleSBnbyBmYXIgYmV5b25kIEZOTS5PbiBhIHNpZGUgbm90ZSxJIGdv dCBtYWlscyBhc2tpbmcgbWUgd2hhdCdzIHRoaXMgVHJldm9yIER1bm4gc29sbyBsaWtlLGFu ZCBJIHJlYWxseSBkdW5ubyBob3cgdG8gZGVzY3JpYmUsdGhlIG9ubHkgdGhpbmcgSSBjYW4g c2F5IGlzIHRoYXQgaXQgaGFzIEFkYW0gTGV2eSBvbiBndWl0YXIgYW5kIEtlbm55IHdvbGxl c2VuIG9uIGRydW1zLlRoZSBiZXN0IHdheSBJIGZvdW5kIHRvIGRlc2NyaWJlIHdhcyBsZXR0 aW5nIHBlb3BsZSBoZWFyLHNvIEknbSBwbGFubmluZyBvbiBwdXR0aW5nIHNvbWUgb2YgaXRz IHRyYWNrcyBvbiBkcml2ZXdheSxzbyxhbnlvbmUgd2hvIHdhbnRzIGl0LGp1c3QgbWFpbCBt ZSBhbmQgd2UnbGwgc2V0IHN1bXRoaW4nIHVwLi4uYnkgdGhlIHdheSxzaW5jZSB3ZSdyZSB0 YWxraW5nIGFib3V0IEZhbnT0bWFzLGRpZCBhbnlvbmUga25vdyBhbnl0aGluZyBhYm91dCBE YXZlIExvbWJhcmRvIHJlbGVhc2luZyBhbiBhbGJ1bSB3aXRoIFZpdmFsZGkgY29tcG9zaXRp b25zPz8/Pz8NCkVwaWNzLA0KQW50aG9ueSBLaWVkaXMob3IgJyd0aGUgZmFuIHRoYXQgd291 bGRuJ3QgZ28gYXdheSkNCg0KPkRhdGU6IEZyaSwgMTcgTm92IDIwMDAgMTA6MDk6NTcgLTA4 MDANCj5Gcm9tOiAiIEEuVmFuVmFsaW4iIDx2YW52YWxpbkBwYWNiZWxsLm5ldD4NCj5TdWJq ZWN0OiBSZTogRHVubg0KPlRvOiBab3JuIGxpc3QgPHpvcm4tbGlzdEBsaXN0cy54bWlzc2lv bi5jb20+DQo+DQo+DQo+LS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLQ0KPkZyb206ICJE aWVnbyBHcnViZXIiIDxkaWVnby5ncnViZXJAY2hlbGxvLmF0Pg0KPg0KPg0KPg0KPj4gQnV0 IHBlcmhhcHMgaXQgaXMgUGF0dG9uJ3MgcG9wdWxhcml0eSBhbmQgdGhlIGhhcmQgdG8NCj4+ IHJlbW92ZSBGTk0gYXNzb2NpYXRpb24NCj4NCj5BbnlvbmUgd2hvJ3Mgc2VlbiAgUGF0dG9u L1pvcm4gYXMgYSBsaXZlIGR1byB3b3VsZCwgSSB0aGluaywgYmUgb3ZlciB0aGUNCj4nRk5N IGFzc29jaWF0aW9uJy4gUGF0dG9uIGFsc28gaG9sZHMgaGlzIG93biBpbiBDb2JyYSBzZXRz Lg0KPg0KPg0KPi0NCg0KDQoNCg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQpodHRwOi8vZTI4OTMuMzcuY29tL0ZyZWUt RS1DYXJkLyAgICA8LS0tIFlvdSBIYXZlIEEgR3JlZXRpbmcgIDopDQoNCg0K - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: acoustic/electronic Date: 17 Nov 2000 14:01:20 EST Kurt said: < avant-garde itself has anything new to say, the > space is and will be in > electro-acoustic improv. well, that's silly. instruments are tools. 'avant-garde' is a label. it's people that either have something to say or don't. what tools they choose is by and large beside the point. >> isn't that a little overly reductionist? wouldn't even the staunchest fans of acoustic improv (excluding Ken Waxman) agree that the vocabulary has been explored far more thoroughly over the last century than has that of electronics in improv? yes, there have been selected cases over the past 30 years, but finally in the last few years, software and processing speed have progressed to where there can be much more fluid interaction, with acoustic instruments or not, in a live setting. I think I mentioned it here once already, but it makes me think of what Keith Rowe told me in Boston a few weeks ago, that finally improvisation has moved out of the post-Coltrane world, in which everyone, no matter what area of the world they were, essentially followed the same path. he thinks that now improvisation is in a post-Duchamp world, in which there's room for sine wave explorers from Japan, free noise feedback artists from New Zealand, Kevin Drumm who's been greatly influenced by Ralf Wehowsky, and numerous others. the variety of approaches and backgrounds is one thing that makes this new wave of music, be it electronic, acoustic, or somewhere in between, so exciting to me. interestingly enough, David Toop's next book is on "the impact digital music creation is having on more 'traditional' means of making music - both the ways in which it seems to make performance in the conventional sense redundant and in the ways it has connected with the very social, physical and spontaneous methods of improvised music." Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: acoustic/electronic Date: 17 Nov 2000 13:24:59 -0500 On Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 02:01:20PM -0500, JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > interestingly enough, David Toop's next book is on "the impact > digital music creation is having on more 'traditional' means of making > music - both the ways in which it seems to make performance in the > conventional sense redundant and in the ways it has connected with the very > social, physical and spontaneous methods of improvised music." I'll be eager to read that. One area in which this has definitely been the case over the years (though looking at "electronic/tape" rather than digital) has been the history of sound poetry, much of which started with experiments in processing the voice that spawned unprocessed live structures and techniques. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: L.M. Connors Date: 17 Nov 2000 14:07:18 EST In a message dated 11/17/00 12:38:37 PM, M_WIRZBICKI@ColoradoCollege.edu writes: << I hear that the following are rather neccesary: 9th Avenue Hell's Kitchen Park In Twilight >> yeah, these three are all great, along with Evangeline, The Carmelites, In Pittsburgh, Two Nights (w/Alan Licht), In Bern (w/ Jim O'Rourke), and Crucible, not to mention the Haunted House CD on my label. I would suggest starting with one or two from this list, definitely not with the 4 CD box, which is for LMC addicts only, I think. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: godz film? Date: 17 Nov 2000 14:42:56 -0500 THE GODZ (Jud Yalkut) That's a listing for something being shown to accompany a Ken Jacobs show at the Museum of the Moving Image (or whatever the real name is). Does anybody know if it has anything to do with the Godz who recorded on ESP? Lang - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: godz film? Date: 17 Nov 2000 14:53:05 -0500 wlt4@mindspring.com wrote: > THE GODZ (Jud Yalkut) > > That's a listing for something being shown to accompany a Ken Jacobs show at the Museum of the Moving Image (or whatever the real name is). Does anybody know if it has anything to do with the Godz who recorded on ESP? Yes. From a similar program that appeared at the Whitney Museum last Halloween: ESP-disk Films ESP-disk was a pioneering record label that issued avant-garde rock and jazz records. Assembled here for the first time are the three films ESP-disk commissioned to promote its artists, together with Michael Snow's film New York Eye and Ear Control (A Walking Woman Work), featuring a soundtrack by Albert Ayler that became the first ESP jazz release. Edward English, The Fugs, 1963, color, sound, 12 1/2 min. (The Fugs) Jud Yalkut, The Godz, 1966, color, sound, 12 min. (The Godz) Edward English, Spaceways, 1968, color, sound, 18 min. (Sun Ra) Michael Snow, New York Eye and Ear Control (A Walking Woman Work), 1964, b/w, sound, 34 min. (Albert Ayler) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com (reporting from lovely downtown Long Island City, just around the corner from the American Museum of the Moving Image...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Motion/Frith Date: 17 Nov 2000 21:11:37 +0100 Hi, Zornlist On the Motion website, at the end of his (excellent) review of XU FENG, Simon Hopkins writes: "PS. Fred Frith is sooooo on form at the moment" Well, if the latest releases with Frith I bought were: - Maybe Monday (Buzz recs, with Miya Masaoka and Larry Ochs), - Later... (Victo, with Ikue Mori and Mark Dresser), and - Traffic Continues (W&W), did I miss something REALLY important? The last Frith/Cutler duo, maybe? Anything else? Thanks Pascal. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: godz film? Date: 17 Nov 2000 13:01:14 -0800 wlt4@mindspring.com wrote: > > THE GODZ (Jud Yalkut) > > That's a listing for something being shown to accompany a Ken Jacobs show at the Museum of the Moving Image (or whatever the real name is). Does anybody know if it has anything to do with the Godz who recorded on ESP? Yes it does. 2 p.m. on Sunday. Jud also has a current series at the Whitney, featuring film programs and a number of reconstructed installations from the 60s (the second opens today); infos follow (note, there are a number of other films that may appeal to folks here). > The Whitney Museum is pleased to present 'Dreamreels', an exhibition > and film program of psychedelic artist and filmmaker Jud Yalkut's work > from the sixties and the present. The exhibition, which opens this > Saturday November 4th, presents two film environments from the sixties, > not seen since their first showings in 1967, and a new three-projection > video installation. Each installation runs for one week. Those > Frameworkers in New York are urged to see all three installations! The > first film environment, 'Yin /Yang / sine pulse', (1967) made with USCO, > will be on show from Saturday November 4th to 12th daily. Inside a > silver mylared space, films are projected onto weather balloons, > re-creating one of the classic multi-media film environments of the > sixties. > > From November 17 - 23, 'Destruct Film' (1967) will be shown. In this > film environment, film is strewn across the floor, ankle deep, into > which the viewer is invited to walk, sit or lie, watching films and > slides moving around the space, animated by beam-splitting mirrors. > > From November 25 - December 1, 'Vision Cantos' will be shown. This > new 3 projection video installation by Yalkut shows digitised and > synthesised film images, projected in the space in a continuing work > which will evolve for the remaining course of the artist's life. > > A special film program of Yalkut's work will be presented on the > final weekend of the exhibition, Saturday December 2 and Sunday December > 3. Complete schedule of films to follow. The film program includes rare > work such as 'Metamedia: A Film Journal of Intermedia and the > Avant-Garde 1966 - 1972', and includes footage of Timothy Leary, a Ken > Dewey car collision happening, Carolee Schneeman's performance 'Illinois > Central Transposed', E.A.T. events, the American premiere of Hermann > Nitsch's 'Orgy-Mystery Theatre in 1968, and many others. The program > will also include a group of videofilms made in collaboration with Nam > June Paik, including rarely screened works such as 'Skating' and > 'Electronic Fables'. > Saturday, December 2 > Sunday, December 3 > Screenings are repeated each day except where noted. > > Noon > The Participating Camera: Film Journals and Diaries > Kusama's Self-Obliteration, with Yayoi Kusama, 1967, 24 min. Sat. only. > Planes, 1968-72, with Simone Forti for Trisha Brown, 17 min. Sun. only. > John Cage Mushroom Hunting in Stony Point, 1972-73, silent, 8 min. > Metamedia: A Film Journal of Intermedia and the Avant-Garde 1966-1970, > 1972, silent, 50 min. In fifteen sections: > 1. Timothy Leary's psychedelic celebration The Resurrection of Christ at > the Village Theatre, New York, 1966. > 2. USCO, Lower East Side: Past and Present, projection environment, The > Jewish Museum, New York, 1966. > 3. Ken Dewey, Red, White and Blue, car collision happening, Group 212, > Woodstock, New York, July 4, 1967. > 4. Phyllis Yampolsky, Feast of Connection for the First 50 Strangers, > Group 212, Woodstock, New York, July 4, 1967. > 5. Expo '67, Montreal, 1967. > 6. Yayoi Kusama happening at Cooper Square Playhouse, New York, 1968. > 7. Carolee Schneemann, Illinois Central Transposed, performance, State > University of New York, Albany, Intermedia '68 tour. > 8. The Living Theatre, Paradise Now, performance, Brooklyn Academy of > Music, New York, 1968. > 9. E.A.T. (Experiments in Art and Technology) project, John Anthes > (Boston) and Tracy Kinsell (Bell Labs), Electronic Laser Light Image, > New York, 1968. >10. Hermann Nitsch, Orgy-Mystery Theatre, American premiere, Filmmakers' > Cinematheque, New York, 1968. >11. USCO, Fanflashstick, strobe environment, Intermedia '68 tour, 1968. >12. Les Levine, Photon: Strangeness No. 4, Intermedia '68 tour, 1968. >13. Larry Warshaw, Flower Light, kinetic exhibition, Hofstra University, > 1968. >14. The 7th Annual New York Avant-Garde Festival, Wards Island, New York, > 1969. >15. "TV as a Creative Medium," exhibition, Howard Wise Gallery, New York, > 1969. > > 2 pm > Kinetic Films and USCO > > Us Down by the Riverside, 1966, 3 min. > Diffraction Film, 1965, silent, 10 min. > Turn, Turn, Turn, 1966, 10 min. > Moondial Film, with Aldo Tambellini, 1966, black-and-white, 4 min. > US, 1966-67, silent, 10 min. > USCO, Ghost Rev, with Jud Yalkut, 1965, black-and-white, 8 min., > double-screen projection. > Festival Mix, 1968, 30 min., triple-screen projection. > > 4 pm > Videofilms: Cinema Metaphysique > Made in collaboration with Nam June Paik > Videotape Study No. 3, 1967-69, black-and-white, 4 min. > Electronic Moon, 1967-69, 4 1/2 min. > Cinema Metaphysique Nos. 1-4, 1966-72, black-and-white, 13 min. > Cinema Metaphysique No. 5, 1967, silent, 2 min. > Waiting for Commercials, 1972, 7 min. > Skating, from Suite 212, 1975, videotape, 5 min. > Electronic Fables, 1971, 9 min. > P+A-I(K), 1966, 10 min. > > 5 pm > > Projected Music > > Saturday only: > Aquarian Rushes, 1969, 49 min. > > Sunday only: > The Loving Spoonful (Summer in the City), 1966, black-and-white, 3 min. > Beatles Electroniques, with Nam June Paik, 1966-69, black-and-white and > color, 3 min. > Slop Print, 1973, 3 min. > China Cat Sunflower, with the Grateful Dead, 1973, 5 min. -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath Subject: RE: L.M. Connors (was re: Chad Taylor) Date: 17 Nov 2000 15:06:29 -0600 At 10:36 AM 11/17/00 -0700, you wrote: >I hear that the following are rather >neccesary: > >9th Avenue >Hell's Kitchen Park >In Twilight >(and the box you've mentioned) > >I can only vouch for 9th ave. I think these are all good places to start, though as was stated before, the box might not be everyone's cup of tea. >Apparently Connors believes "Airs" is his best recording achievment but I >think many listeners dissagree including people on this list. I'd have to agree with Connors on this one. It is definitely one of my favorites. In fact I was just listening to it at work today and thinking how great it was. I'm wondering what about it makes people disagree? >I also enjoy >In Bern >Evangeline >and Hell Hell Hell... > >but these may not be as crutial. All good as well. I guess it depends on which style of his playing you are in the mood for. If you like his more sparse, introspective stuff, then Airs or Evangeline are good ones. If you like his more dark, distorted stuff, then Hell! Hell! Hell! Hell! Hell! or his release on Table of the Elements are good ones for that. But I also really like his duets - with Licht or Haino or Darin Gray, etc. I'm not a huge fan of Suzanne Langille's voice, so I usually don't recommend his pairings with her as highly, although they are good in the right mood. Basically my rule of thumb when it comes to Connors is this: If I see an album on which he plays that I don't already own, I buy it. So far I've not been disappointed. The only thing to be aware of ahead of time is the fact that more often than not, you won't get a whole lot of 'bang for your buck' with his releases - don't be surprised to find a lot of them are no more than 20 to 30 minutes in length. Still worth it in my opinion, though. Craig M. Rath H: fripp@mn.mediaone.net W: rathc@questarweb.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: on electroeclecticism Date: 17 Nov 2000 16:33:47 -0500 i maintain: instruments are tools. 'avant-garde' is a label. it's people that either have something to say or don't. what tools they choose is by and large beside the point. >> jon rejoined: isn't that a little overly reductionist? wouldn't even the staunchest fans of acoustic improv (excluding Ken Waxman) agree that the vocabulary has been explored far more thoroughly over the last century than has that of electronics in improv? i reply: no, i don't think it's reductionist. certainly technological innovations result in new styles, sounds and modes and new synergies in creation. my point wasn't to deny that. but to say that the future of the avant-garde, or any genre, lies squarely with one type of machinery is overly reductionist, imhfo. the future of the 'avant-garde', as it has been pinned in this discussion (or as i would prefer, of continued creative expression) lies in people with innovative and challenging ideas. do things sound newer when new technologies are used? sure. are innovative artists often drawn toward unexplored areas? yuppers again. but none of that means a harmonica player won't come along tomorrow that won't make you peel off your skin and scream to allah in pure joy and excitement. i don't know the players nearly so well as you do, jon. but i'm sure you'd agree that software and processing speed don't mean much when left in the hands of an uninspired player. my point was simply that it's the musician, not the medium, that we're listening to. if that weren't true, then what the hell would be wrong with kenny g anyway? kg np: eugene chadbourne and henry kaiser 'the guitar lesson' - a disc of duets by two guys who have managed to come up with new and innovative things to do with a pretty old instrument - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: on electroeclecticism Date: 17 Nov 2000 17:07:45 EST Kurt said: <> fair enough, but electroacoustic improv isn't just pure laptop music, it's also about synthesizers, turntables, and any or all of the above interacting with acoustic instruments. Bill's original point was that there's much more room for innovation in the world of e-a improv, largely because there's so much unexplored territory. of course I agree that it's the musicians, not the medium, but that doesn't mean I expect a revolutionary Chicago blues or Dixieland record to ever come out again. <> no, it sure doesn't, but we're talking probabilities here, not absolutes. you keep scouting the harmonica players for me, and I'll keep you posted on the world of e-a improv. deal? Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: RE: on electroeclecticism Date: 17 Nov 2000 15:14:40 -0700 >instruments are tools. 'avant-garde' is a label. it's >people that either have something to say or don't. agreed entirely. however, the vocabulary of electronic music is widely underdefined and perhaps underappreciated (look at the absolute lack of appreciation amoung academic classical circles of the tape music phenomenon...) It has also been difficult to bridge the gap which Patrice was pointing out (between music which the people at large can enjoy) with electronic music. We have electic guitars...some processed rap...a little techno and house stuff...personally I think some of these developments are promising in a certain way. The fact that Medeski has gathered a crowd while continuing to push his electronic sounds closer to noise is a step in my book. i think that Jon is correct to point out that there is a pretty vast area of artistic possibility in the world of electronic sound and hopfully more artists will begin considering the ramifications of this area on their own work, but for me it does still come down to the musician him/her-self. The existance of this vast area of artistic possibility does not diminish the capibilities of other musical "tools." I'm reminded of a schoolmate in high school who refused to wear shoes, read typed print, or write with anything other than pencil. He figured feet and handwriting should be acceptible forms of transportation and communication respectively. You all know the story. The bright kid who was eventually committed to the asylum. (I also find it a bit funny that the L.M. Connors discussion has been floating casually along side this massive yacht). Matt Wirzbicki - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: NYEAEC Date: 17 Nov 2000 17:34:38 -0500 (EST) I always find it interesting that New York Eye and Ear Control, a film/LP that featured: Don Cherry (trumpet, cornet); Roswell Rudd (trombone); John Tchicai (alto saxophone); Albert Ayler (tenor saxophone); Gary Peacock (bass); Sunny Murray (drums) is often referred to as an Ayler session. The others ain't exactly chopped liver. (Something that can not be created electroacoustically, Jon). Also we all know that NYEAEC wasn't "the first ESP jazz release". Ayler's Spiritual Unity was. Ken Waxman --- Steve Smith wrote: > wlt4@mindspring.com wrote: : to promote its artists, together with Michael Snow's > film New York Eye and Ear Control (A Walking Woman > Work), featuring a soundtrack by Albert Ayler that > became the first ESP jazz release. _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Gannushkin Subject: Avishai Cohen question Date: 17 Nov 2000 17:44:40 -0500 Hello All, I saw Satlah yesterday at Tonic (it was amazing show, by the way) and took flyers of Lemon Juice Quartet there. Satlah and LJQ share two members: bass player Shanir Ezra Blumenkranz and drummer Kevin Zubek. The other two members of LJQ are guitarist Eyal Maoz and trumpeter Avishai Cohen. The question: is the well known bass player Avishai Cohen and this trumpeter the same person or not? It seems to me that they are two different people but with kind of similar biographies. Best regards, Peter Gannushkin e-mail: shkin@shkin.com URL: http://www.downtownmusic.net/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: NYEAEC Date: 17 Nov 2000 18:03:18 EST In a message dated 11/17/00 5:35:35 PM, mingusaum@yahoo.ca writes: << (Something that can not be created electroacoustically, Jon). >> don't put words in my mouth, Ken. I never said or implied that there weren't tons of really innovative acoustic improv records being made 35 years ago. we're talking about now and in the future. and if you meant that chopped liver can't be created electroacoustically, that's funny, funny stuff. just for the record, I haven't had some sort of lifelong bias towards electronic music, far from it. I'm attracted to music of any kind which I find exciting and which challenges me. right now, the vast majority of that happens to be e-a improv, which is why I'm spending my time documenting and promoting it. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: otomo/marclay: what a draag Date: 17 Nov 2000 18:07:41 EST In a message dated 11/17/00 5:09:27 PM, you wrote: << collector marclay taken up otomo's tendencies to transvestism ?) ... hoppy kamiyama,... is quite fond of doing so, and looks pretty good, ..dressed as a woman and she was, uh, wearing cut up pieces of stuffed animals all over her.>> intersting, eh: sampling stuffedanimals. strange that my first encounter with marclay, over 20 yrs ago i think, was not via music but a feature on marclay's LP-cover collages in a gay porn mag. the most striking one, i still remember, had a collage of a herbie mann flute extended, wearing a red polka dot skirt. ..love to all... steve koenig n.p.: charlie kohlhase; dart night - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim McLoughlin" Subject: Shumacher / Gratkowski Date: 17 Nov 2000 18:34:27 -0500 Hi I was looking at upcoming roulette gigs (in NYC), and was wondering if anyone has opinions/reviews/info on work by Michael Shumacher (who performs tonight on G3 laptop) and reed player Frank Gratkowski (tomorrow night). I'll probably see the Kratkowski gig because of the Formaneck/Hemmingway rhythm section, but any information is appreciated. Jim McLoughlin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Gatzen Subject: cartoon s/m Date: 17 Nov 2000 15:55:41 -0800 (PST) did this cd get bumped...I thought it should be out by now??? Tom __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: cartoon s/m Date: 17 Nov 2000 16:01:53 -0800 On Fri, 17 Nov 2000 15:55:41 -0800 (PST) Tom Gatzen wrote: > > did this cd get bumped...I thought it should be out by > now??? According to DMG (mailed today): THE LAST FOUR RELEASES FROM TZADIK FOR THIS YEAR ARE NOW RESCHEDULED FOR DECEMBER 5TH , BUT WE MAY GET THEM SOONER! 1.JOHN ZORN-Cartoon/S&M (Tzadik 7330) Outstanding performances of Mr. Zorn's chamber works performed by the Mondriaan Quartet and the Asko Ensemble. The 'light' cd covers his quirky cartoon cut-up compositions and the 'dark' cd covers his S&M 'Torture Garden' period. Both cds conclude with haunting versions of "Kol Nidre" - perhaps Zorn's most sad and beautiful piece. Two cd set for $20. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: L.M. Connors/Butters/supersphere.com Date: 17 Nov 2000 20:43:20 -0500 > 2. Though this might not be the list to ask, did > anyone see Signal to Noise, the band with Vandermark, > Kevin Drumm, and a guy named STeve Butters (haven't > heard of him before), when they performed regularly? > What were the shows like? Yeah, I'd be interested in this too. I thought I'd read somewhere that they'd recorded and that it might get released sometime. Anyone know? Butters plays percussion on a frew tracks of Jim O'Rourke's "Eureka." He's also playing at Roulette in a few weeks with Eric Mandat and Jim Staley. More info at http://www.roulette.org/event.12.00.html Also, speaking of Drumm and Vandermark, I should let people know that there's some great realvideo of these guys (and many other improvisors) at www.supersphere.com . Go to "Clubtronic" and then to the archive and look around. There's a duo of Drumm and John Butcher (you have to go to the NoisePop festival page to find that), Drumm with Axel Dorner (which doesn't seem to be working for me now), and a really great set of the Ex with Chicago improvisors including Vandermark, Jeb Bishop, Josh Abrams, Fred Lonberg-Holm, and Drumm. The opening set of that clip, with a few Ex members, Lonberg-Holm, Abrams, and Drumm, is fantastic. Lonberg-Holm in particular does some really nice, really intense, cello craziness. And finally, my Mazzacane-Connors recommendations. I really like the stuff with Alan Licht, though I haven't heard the one on New World of Sound (I think that's the label), which supposedly has huge recording/mastering problems. Two Nights is really great; quiet and spacious improv, Licht mostly plays clean notes around Mazzacane. Mercury incorporates more of Licht's "sound"; there's far more feedback and scrape, but it works well also. And the aforementioned "Hoffman Estates" features some of my favorite Chicago improvisors. Besides Drumm and Chad Taylor, you get Vandermark (I think that's him doing the cool circular breathing on track 5), Rob Mazurek, Josh Abrams, Mike Colligan, and more. For solo Mazzacane, I really like Airs and his first Roadcone record, Moonyean. Apologies if that's out of print. There's a good review of Airs by Bill Meyer, by the way, at http://www.inkblotmagazine.com/archive.htm , under "C" (as opposed to "M"). -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: electroaccoustic dressed up as the vanguard Date: 18 Nov 2000 04:19:52 GMT >From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com >'avant-garde' is a label. There is the problem in a nutshell, isn't it Kurt. Once the "avant-garde" became a "label," it ceased to be "avant-garde." One has to become post-Duchampian in order to see this. Otherwise everything is still perceived through modernist goggles. >it's people >that either have something to say or don't. what tools they choose is by >and >large beside the point. I'm not certain that "tool" is an apt metaphor for musical instruments. Nor for that matter "language" for music. I say I'm uncertain, not that it's wrong. When one makes a statement about the concept of the avant-garde being virtually exhausted, it doesn't mean that genre performers can't be impressive or our experiences devoid of pleasure. I write as one who spent five years playing avant-jazz records on radio. I cut my teeth on this stuff. That's why I talk about my "gods" etc. etc. My love of this music will never exhaust itself. But I live multiple lives in terms of musical, philosophical, and conceptual affect. And for me (and I only speak for myself), after Braxton, Taylor, and Coleman, avant-jazz has exhausted its recipes. Everything else is now genre or as you say "label." Oh and no doubt these newer artists continue working under labels. This is my point. >From: Velaires@aol.com >That's kind of a broad statement to make, especially in light of how many >musics develop to the point of fostering an avant-garde. Have accoustic >instruments as a sonic family run out of new sounds to make? Is the need >for >electronic instruments so crucial to make any new statement? It is a broad statement for certain. I'm a theorist, not a practitioner. Theorists make broad statements. It's our profession. I don't think acoustic instruments have run out of new sounds necessarily. But I think a lot of acoustic avant-gardes have now spent their creativity in terms of the "new." But don't worry. I don't feel any remorse about this. My point is that "if" there still is an avant-garde in any form left that isn't simply a reproducing genre or label, it's likely to lie in the general vacinity of electro-acoustic improv and electronic music more generally. I could be wrong though. Perhaps the avant-garde is exhausted there as well. My guess is that it isn't. > >Personally, I hold no brief against electronic instruments or the people >who >use them (and I think this includes all manner of devices from the Hammond >B-3 to the turntable and beyond), but to state categorically that one type >of >improvising unilaterally holds the key seems a little limiting to me. I would never state "categorically" for the same reasons as those I elaborated above. Once avant-gardes become "categories," they cease to be as such. NP: That Evan Parker disc I mentioned before. PS: Nice to see the Zorn list getting a bit feisty again :-) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marc Neville" Subject: Re: Shumacher / Gratkowski Date: 17 Nov 2000 20:27:30 -0800 Gratkowski's home page: http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/mgratkow.html You're in for a treat. Give us a review of the concert if you get a chance. Marc Neville Studio City, CA nevlmarc@worldnet.att.net ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 3:34 PM > Hi > > I was looking at upcoming roulette gigs (in NYC), and was wondering if > anyone has opinions/reviews/info on work by Michael Shumacher (who performs > tonight on G3 laptop) and reed player Frank Gratkowski (tomorrow night). > I'll probably see the Kratkowski gig because of the Formaneck/Hemmingway > rhythm section, but any information is appreciated. > > Jim McLoughlin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marius Ergo" Subject: Re: Dunn Date: 18 Nov 2000 13:09:22 CET >From: "Fag music" >To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com, cdeupree@erinet.com >Subject: Dunn >Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 06:52:01 -0800 why is it that people consider Bungle to be kind of a rock band?I suppose some may think this cause Patton sings on it...anyone? I think the clue here is that basically, they ARE a rock band, but putting labels on stuff like bungle is absolutely pointless. The fact is that they are what they are, and that is some dedicated guys making some of the best music around. Rock is a dirty word, but not a bad word. Anyway, Dunn is a great bassist, composer and musician, and has given me loads of inspiration. - Marius _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fred fred Subject: SoundList - Toronto-area experimental music list Date: 18 Nov 2000 10:26:15 -0800 (PST) JOIN SoundList! SoundList is an E-mailing list for announcements of events involving experimental music, free improvisation, sound art, new concert music, electroacoustic music, sound poetry or sound sculpture in or around Toronto, Canada. Currently there are more than 240 SoundList subscribers. Submissions are compiled and posted weekly, so that the E-mail traffic to subscribers is low-volume even though the number of announcements is considerable. The email addresses of subscribers are treated as strictly confidential. SoundList is free. To subscribe, please visit http://audiolab.uwaterloo.ca/~soundlst/ Please forward this information to anyone who you think might be interested. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "graham connah" Subject: Re: Dunn/Masada Date: 18 Nov 2000 10:57:57 -0800 (apologies in advance for the MIME, no one yet has been able to show me how to maake it go away.) for those who wish to know: a west coast Masada played in san francisco in early 1994. The first shows were at Radio Valencia with Ben Goldberg--clarinet, Dunn, and Kenny wollesen-drums. This same line-up played at Sf's Great American Music Hall around the same time, a concert which exists on video but will never be seen. Masada returned to Radio Valencia a little while later, same line-up but with dave douglas replacing goldberg (go figure). much more recently there was a show at slim's in SF called masada with John schott, scott amendola , and john shifflet. no dunn, he was on the road somewhere at the time. here are a few fun facts: Dunn is a descendant of the founders of the Dunn and Dunn drag racing team, from the eraly sixties. Dunn digs dakota Staton. Dunn's favorite movie is Gummo. --GC - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Philippe Dupuis Subject: a taste of cherry Date: 18 Nov 2000 15:06:07 +0000 hello, -Don Cherry (trumpet, cornet) speaking of don cherry, i saw this documentary about jazz the other day and it featured don talking a bit. he had these weird mad max goggles on his head and was dressed up with piles of clothing and had pink gloves cut at the fingers. anyway he picked up this african guitar and started singing and it was really beautiful. i was wondering, the only music i've heard from him is off my beauty is a rare thing box set, where would i look if i wanted a more, god i hate to use this word but -"world" sound with don playing on it. thanks, martin dupuis p.s. someone mentioned this documentary on ornette coleman the other day - what is it called again, is it good? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "George Scala" Subject: Re: a taste of cherry Date: 18 Nov 2000 14:52:12 -0500 >this african guitar douss'n gouni >"world" sound with don > playing on it. Don Cherry Mu First Part BYG/Actuel 529.301 Don Cherry Mu Second Part BYG/Actuel 529.331 Don Cherry Live in Ankara Sonet SNTF669 Jon Appleton/Don Cherry Human Music Flying Dutchman 121 Don Cherry/Dollar Brand/Carlos Ward The Third World - Underground Trio 9018 Don Cherry Live in Ankara Sonet 669 Don Cherry Organic Music Caprice 44+50 Don Cherry And The Jazz Composer's Orchestra Relativity Suite JCOA 1006 Don Cherry Eternal Now Sonet 63 Don Cherry Brotherhood Suite Flash Music 4 Don Cherry Don Cherry A&M 717/Horizon 18 Don Cherry/Latif Khan Music/Sangam Europa 2009 Don Cherry/Ed Blackwell El Corazon ECM 1230 Don Cherry Home Boy Sister Out Barclay 827 488 Don Cherry Multikulti A&M 5323 Don Cherry Don Cherry's "Multikulti" V.I.E.W. 1348 (video) Codona Codona ECM 1132 Codona Codona 2 ECM 1177 Codona Codona 3 ECM 1243 Audio Letter It Is This It Is Not This CNLF 1 Trilok Gurtu Usfret CMP 33 Hassan Hakmoun and Adam Rudolph Gift of the Gnawa Flying Fish FF 70571 Tim Moran & Tony Vacca City Spirits Philo 9007 Nana Simopoulos Wings and Air Enja 5031 Tamma with Don Cherry and Ed Blackwell Odin LP 14 Jai Uttal Footprints Triloka 183 Collin Walcott Grazing Dreams ECM 1096 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: zornlist/peel off your.. Date: 18 Nov 2000 14:55:20 EST In a message dated 11/18/00 2:31:51 PM, you wrote: <> n.p. pegleg sam (blue magnet) ouch!! hit me again! steve koenig - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: a taste of cherry Date: 18 Nov 2000 12:00:33 -0800 Philippe Dupuis wrote: > > i was wondering, the only music i've heard from him is off my > beauty is a rare thing box set, where would i look if i wanted a > more, god i hate to use this word but -"world" sound with don > playing on it. http://www.fe.org/artists/cherry.don.html -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "The novelist should be at least as generous as God." -- William Vollman np: The Modern Art, _All Aboard the Mind Train_ nr: Norman Mailer, _The Idol and the Octopus_ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: Re: Michael Shumacher Date: 18 Nov 2000 15:14:18 EST In a message dated 11/18/00 2:31:51 PM, you wrote: << Hi...if anyone has opinions/reviews/info on work by Michael Shumacher (who performs tonight on G3 laptop..>> hi jim, michael schumacher has a gallery at 5 beekman streeet near nyc city hall which features sound installations, frequently changed, by the best and most amazing musicians. it's called studio five beekman, and i misplaced my URL for the website. i have two discs i really like, and wrote up in laFolia.com, but don't recall the details except i like them. one is 'fidicin drones' on the colorful clouds for acoustics label. the other is 'room piece' put out by himself. i only heard him in performance once, at the mela foundation, in which i came in the middle and left shortly after, and found the computer/technical set-up more interesting than the drones/noises, although it could easily have just been that suffocating, insufferable heat in that room that july. i'd recommend checking him out. to contact him for more info: mschumacher@sprintmail.com regards, steve koenig n.p. merzbow: collapse 12 floors [ohm] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: a smorgasbord of cherry Date: 18 Nov 2000 12:17:22 -0800 a few may surprise you http://www.cyborg.ne.jp/~akio01/discography/cherry_d.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: Re: zornlist/peel off your.. Date: 18 Nov 2000 17:11:49 EST Actually, there's enough sonic invention in stuff Little Walter did forty years ago that many of us are still trying to figure out exactly what we're hearing him do. Unfortunately, because few people in the "properly acknowledged" avant-garde world look at rhythm'n'blues as having the correct quotient of progressivism, so you're rarely liable to hear/read it discussed as anything other than an easily repeated twelve-bar form regenerated weekly in bars for the amusement of white fraternity types. Somehow, it's deemed more useful to argue the merits of music created by people who crave critical acclaim from "important" publications like THE WIRE or whatever. The most avant-garde message anyone can send out is, "I don't give a f**k what's supped to be 'in'. I'm playing what I play the way I play it, and the marketplace can either like it or lump it.'" You think Cecil Taylor played that way on COLTRANE TIME because he thought somebody at DOWNBEAT would write how hip he was? And this is something like forty years ago, when "practitioners of serious music" were wagging their fingers in the air about how the piano had been done to death and had therefore lost its ability to be the vehicle for new musical statements. Just because some music is deemed "avant-garde" by the people who walk around deeming things doesn't mean it's all that snazzy, or, for that matter, all that new. At the same time, a whole lot of stuff that really is challenging -- sonically, structurally, technically, whatever it is -- isn't given the proper pedigree by the people who make it a point to tell people about what creative progress is occurring in the world of music. These people usually don't want to know if some really fresh, exehavior happening in worlds that the cognescenti doesn't research -- trust me. The idea that there is a blues harmonica player out there who is every bit as singular and creative as Mark Feldman (who I think is excellent) is not only a good idea, it's also one that I'd bet on. Those who think it's unlikely would be wise to remember all the strerotypes attatched to, say, the accordion. Here was an instrument that was all polkas and "Lady Of Spain" -- an instrument that had no hope of progressive acceptance, an instrument that was the butt of every joke musicians told. Then Guy Klucevsek turned heads, and, one Andrea Parkins later, people no longer chortle over the notion of an accordion. And more over, more people play the harmonica. Not to mention the fact that there already has been one wierd harmonica virtuoso, Leo Diamond (who, in the fifties, made a few truly bizarre easy listening records, utilizing some harmonicas he designed and built himself, both standard reed and electric). There's a lot that bears checking out here. The predjudices of the gentrified avant-garde aren't neccessarily the marker forn the progress of all creative music. skip heller - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: zorn meets kagel: fly on the wall Date: 19 Nov 2000 02:40:09 EST just got back from carnegie hall. all-kagel program. me, the family, and buddy cliff preiss of wkcr. "midnight" piece: fantastic sound/text piece based on rbt schumann's diaries; gothic pierrot lunaire with thicker texures and chorus. the main piece: "kidnapping in the concert hall." didnt work for me, tho few left in the middle. great musical sounds but the theater premise bombed, plus they didn't go it as planned with the musicians slowly disappearing from the hall. kagel told me that it was easier this way. before i talked to kagel he was talking to john zorn, who greeted kagel warmly. kagel told zorn he had heard a zorn piece at, i believe, some european festival or concert, but was hesitant to come back and say hello, zorn told kagel cordially that he should have. there wassome talk of a potential saxophone piece; i didn't make it all out but it was good-natured patter; they really liked and respected each other. i wasn't there to spy, but you know how it is when yr there anyway. love to all, spy vs. fly. another all-kagel concert at columbia miller theater i believe feb 10, but check millertheater.com to be sure. steve monkeyboy koenig --- n.p.: shifts (frans de waard): "equal"/"unequal", 10" vinyl, fourth dimension records uk - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: Àpuzzle punks? Date: 19 Nov 2000 02:49:03 EST In a message dated 11/14/00 10:25:11 PM, you wrote: << Eye also had two other recent hardcore projects not on this list > called "Puzzle Punks" and "One"... anyone know anything about these? >> <> hi friends, i have the puzzle punks 'budub' which i found for a buck in the street and do like but hadnt been able to figger out, as with so many of these neon oft-japanese artsy-covered thingies: what's the group, whats the title, what's the band's "project," etc. feel free to write just to me if not pertinent to the whole list. yrs, monkeyboy k. n.p.: sator absentia "mercurian orgasms" dark vinyl records - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fag music" Subject: Sharp knife Date: 19 Nov 2000 03:25:30 -0800 Not sure wether this has to do with avant-garde or not, but anyone know if Kevin Sharp's into the scene?I really like the guy's voice in Brutal truth,and some of the stuff he did with Cobra was funny...well,can't say I'd listen to his track on Melvin's Crybaby,but...so,anyone knows where is Kevin Sharp?Is he still recording?Last thing heard,he was in a ''hate-core'' band called Damaged....but I didn't find it anywhere(if anyone has it,mail me).Oh yeah...maybe some of you avant-gardist dudes will like this band....it's called Exit-13....it's ''kind of grindcore''(like ''bungle is kind of a rock band''),but they put out a cd with some old 60's jazz covers...I found it funny. Dementias, Godplayer http://e2893.37.com/Free-E-Card/ <--- You Have A Greeting :) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: New music on the horizon: Frisell, Shipp, Douglas Date: 19 Nov 2000 16:42:48 -0500 > Rick Lopez wrote: > >> He changed his mind. Happens to the best of us. > > Well, there's a LITTLE more to it than that. According to Shipp, he "retired" > from making new records...[and much more, elegantly] Hey, sorry about the stoopit pat reply I made to the original good question, but things here are awful, and I was just hoping someone else would do it in serious fashion. Very nice job, and thank you so much for the interview link. Best, RL ---------- Sessionographies: CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies: COURVOISIER; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN. --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things-- Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k UPDATE *June 25*, 2000: Vids, a few CDs, baseball books, misc. ***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: NYC free gig Mon 6pm Interactive Mapaphone(s) Date: 19 Nov 2000 17:44:28 EST Dear Friends, Ricardo Arias, whom I know from his playing of balloons, and incredible so, just won an artist in residence or something like that at Harvestworks; hence this free gig where he does something entirely different. regards Steve Koenig n.p. Miya Masaoka (asian improv records) Admission Free At Harvestworks 596 Broadway 602 New York, N.Y. 10012 Monday November 20, 2000 6-8PM Ricardo Arias "Interactive Mapaphone(s)" a music system utilizing mapaphones (hand-held magnetic playback heads) reading prerecorded audio from strips of magnetic tape in conjunction with a varitey of sensors. Ricardo was a 1999 Artist-In-Residence who has performed recently at Roulette Intermedium in NYC. Harvestworks, Digital Media Arts Center 596 Broadway Suite 602 New York NY 10012 212-431-1130 http://www.harvestworks.org Harvestw@dti.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: shipp's discs Date: 19 Nov 2000 17:54:49 EST << has Matt stated publicly yet what exactly he was talking about a couple of years ago when he said repeatedly that he was retiring from making recordings, yet they've continued to flow fairly unabated? just curious. Jon>> Dear Jon, Matt told me that he was talking a break from mking new recordings; nothing more or less, reason being that he has already so many discs out and so many in the can (the Thirsty Ears and others) that he felt it would be better for himself and for his recording-buying public to digest what was already out, which reflected the basic musical heads he's been in so far, and for him to breathe a little and instead, practice and perform, He is not, as has been misreported elsewhere, retiring from music. This was an informal conversation and I am paraphrasing and mangling his more to-the-point manner of speaking. -with love to all, Steve Koenig n.p. Sean Meehan/Edwin Torres/Miguel Algarin 7" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain Subject: Re: shipp's discs Date: 19 Nov 2000 19:32:17 -0500 on 11/19/00 5:54 PM, Acousticlv@aol.com at Acousticlv@aol.com wrote: > << > has Matt stated publicly yet what exactly he was talking about a couple of > years ago when he said repeatedly that he was retiring from making > recordings, yet they've continued to flow fairly unabated? just curious. > Jon>> > > Dear Jon, > > Matt told me that he was talking a break from mking new recordings; > nothing more or less, reason being that he has already so > many discs out and so many in the can > (the Thirsty Ears and others) that he felt it would be better for himself > and for his recording-buying public to digest what was already out, > which reflected the basic musical heads he's been in so far, > and for him to breathe a little and instead, practice and perform, > He is not, as has been misreported elsewhere, retiring from music. > > This was an informal conversation and I am paraphrasing and > mangling his more to-the-point manner of speaking. > > -with love to all, > Steve Koenig n.p. Sean Meehan/Edwin Torres/Miguel Algarin 7" > > - > This is more or less what he told me last year. As Steve indicated, Matt said he has a number of recordings in the can, so a few might come out that have already been recorded. However, as Mr. Smith said, perhaps the Thirsty Ear blue series deal will change his plans. --Mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: zornlist/peel off your.. Date: 20 Nov 2000 08:03:50 GMT >From: Velaires@aol.com >The most avant-garde message anyone can send out is, "I don't give a f**k >what's supped to be 'in'. I'm playing what I play the way I play it, and >the >marketplace can either like it or lump it.'" You think Cecil Taylor played >that way on COLTRANE TIME because he thought somebody at DOWNBEAT would >write >how hip he was? And this is something like forty years ago, when >"practitioners of serious music" were wagging their fingers in the air >about >how the piano had been done to death and had therefore lost its ability to >be >the vehicle for new musical statements. >Just because some music is deemed "avant-garde" by the people who walk >around >deeming things doesn't mean it's all that snazzy, or, for that matter, all >that new. At the same time, a whole lot of stuff that really is >challenging >-- sonically, structurally, technically, whatever it is -- isn't given the >proper pedigree by the people who make it a point to tell people about what >creative progress is occurring in the world of music. These people usually >don't want to know if some really fresh, exehavior happening in worlds that >the cognescenti doesn't research -- trust me. > >The idea that there is a blues harmonica player out there who is every bit >as >singular and creative as Mark Feldman (who I think is excellent) is not >only >a good idea, it's also one that I'd bet on. The predjudices of the >gentrified avant-garde aren't neccessarily the marker forn the progress of >all creative music. But Skip, bravado and straw man reductions are not what makes strong arguments on a topic such as this one. No one assumes that artists with particular investments in an "avant-garde" of whatever form or fashion do so for the sake of "publicity." It's starting to strike me that the vigor of some of these complaints are doing little more than confirming their truth. But really, if we are going to get at the crux of Jon's momentus crack about the avant-death of the saxophone and move beyond eulogies cloaked in denial, we should try to understand what Keith Rowe meant when he said that the current movement in electro-acoustic improv is one that is post-Duchampian. Whether we trace the roots of this gesture in places like Cage or Henry or Stockhausen or elsewhere, the current fascination with the electronic is most assuredly part of our milieu. As David Toop said in Modulations, this development has to do with our greater recognition and involvment with industrial sound and with sound as the material of musical construction, and finally becoming privileged over musical construction itself. Since the pivotal moment was one in which Duchamp, having returned from Munich in 1912 and having completed the cubist "Passage from the Virgin to the Bride," mirrored his own object on the level of passing out of a naive understanding of painting as art and into the full blown crisis that culminated in the "readymade," the current crisis in music which led to the creation of an electronic center must be seen in this light. While "painting" certainly continued after R. Mutt's "The Fountain," the radical cleavage with the institutions of art that this article constituted was never overcome, not even after Rauschenberg, Johns, or Pollack, an expressionism born out of the exhaustion of figuration. In the end, when we speak of "good musicianship" or "inspired playing," we are only using the tropes of the old avant order, one which still believes in the category of "music," of "instrumental mastery," or even of "jazz." Whereas, in the conceptual universe of electronic improv and its "variations," the Duchampian move is the privileging of sound itself, in the assemblage rather than the "stellar performance" on an acknowledged "musical instrument." Will this mean that the progressive rhythm and blues that you cite will go away or has no pleasure to offer? Let's move beyond this question by looking at the Duchampian example. Did painting continue after Duchamp? OK, then, what is the relevant question regarding avant-garde practice after, for example, free jazz becomes conservative (which it has in my opinion--no matter how far outside the mainstream)? Duchamp's pivotal moment was when after Munich he wrote a note to himself that said "no more painting, get a job." As John Rajchman phrased it, "in introducing mundane industrial objects into the 'space' of constant pictorial redefinition invented by the avant-garde, Duchamp would be revealing something about the industrial sources of that space." Thierry de Duve's whole point about Duchamp was that his movement was a form of "abandonment" not unlike that of Edouard Manet's abandonment of chiaroscuro, Cezanne's of linear painting, the Abstractionists" of figuration, or the Cubists' Euclidean space. A similar abandonment is taking place in electro-acoustic improv apparently. And we're not going to reassure ourselves any more by recourse to nostalgia, no matter how interesting or compelling its objects. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: simon hopkins Subject: Re: Motion/Frith Date: 20 Nov 2000 11:49:15 +0000 Pascal wrote: did I miss something REALLY important? The last Frith/Cutler duo, maybe? Anything else? Pascal I was really referring to having seen Frith play with ZL&L in London and Paris earlier this year. He was stunning both nights - and very different, too. Simon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Beardsley Subject: Re: Michael Shumacher Date: 20 Nov 2000 07:41:13 -0800 Steve Koenig > In a message dated 11/18/00 2:31:51 PM, you wrote: > << > Hi...if anyone has opinions/reviews/info on work by Michael Shumacher (who > performs > tonight on G3 laptop..>> > > hi jim, > michael schumacher has a gallery at 5 beekman streeet near nyc city hall > which features sound installations, frequently changed, by the best and most > amazing musicians. > it's called studio five beekman, and i misplaced my URL for the website. It closed over the summer and the web site was out of date anywayz. db -- * D a v i d B e a r d s l e y * 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time" * http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Sharp knife Date: 20 Nov 2000 10:39:24 -0500 Fag music wrote: > Not sure wether this has to do with avant-garde or not, > but anyone know if Kevin Sharp's into the scene?I really like the guy's voice in Brutal truth,and some of the stuff he did with Cobra was funny... I've lost track of Sharp since the demise (?) of Brutal Truth, but yeah, he was at least a tangental part of the "scene" - I saw BT open for Boredoms and Pain Teens in summer '93 back in Houston - loudest show I ever heard in my life - and then, months later after moving to NYC, I saw Kevin and Buckethead sit in with Pain Killer during the Zorn 40th birthday month at the old Knit. Thanks for the memories, Steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Corporate Art Date: 20 Nov 2000 08:54:24 -0800 On Fri, 17 Nov 2000 13:56:26 +1100 "Julian" wrote: > > I found a copy of this cd second hand (for those who don't know, it's Bobby > Previte, Mark Helias, Christy Doran and Gary Thomas). Anyone know what's it > like? Since nobody answered. This is a fantastic record! The playing is awesome (specially Bobby who is all over the place, some wild guitar by Christy Doran, powerfull tenor by Gary). The music? Modern jazz with strong stuctures and great compositions. If you are familiar with most of Bobby's output, you should love that record. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Moudry Subject: Re: cartoon s/m Date: 20 Nov 2000 10:53:02 -0600 Tom, DMG says the drop date has been revised to 5 December for the entire last batch of Tzadiks. At 15:55 17-11-00 -0800, you wrote: >did this cd get bumped...I thought it should be out by >now??? > >Tom > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! >http://calendar.yahoo.com/ Hope this helps. Saturnally, Joe Moudry Office of Academic Computing & Technology School of Education, The University of Alabama @ Birmingham Master of Saturn Web (Sun Ra, the Arkestra, & Free Jazz): Producer/Host of Classic Jazz & Creativ Improv on Alabama Public Radio: WUAL 91.5FM Tuscaloosa/Birmingham WQPR 88.7FM Muscle Shoals/NW Alabama WAPR 88.3FM Selma/Montgomery/Southern Alabama - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tony Reif Subject: new Songlines releases Date: 20 Nov 2000 11:05:45 -0800 Hi all, You can check out the two fall releases on our website, www.songlines.com: Chris Speed, Emit - third CD by Chris's Yeah No quartet (Cuong Vu, Skuli Sverrisson, Jim Black, and Chris on tenor and clarinet). Chris continues to be inspired by Balkan rhythms and melodic material among other things but in this group he transforms them into something else altogether. Talking Pictures and Jorrit Dikjstra, Humming - Talking Pictures is Vancouver guitarist Ron Samworth's group (Peggy Lee, cello, Dylan van der Schyff, drums/electronics, and Bill Clark, trumpet). This CD is a collaboration with Dutch saxophonist Jorrit Dijkstra, and features his compositions as well group improvisations including live electronic processing from Jorrit, Ron and Dylan. Tony Reif (Songlines Recordings) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: Re: kevin sharp Date: 20 Nov 2000 19:19:20 GMT >Not sure wether this has to do with avant-garde or not, but anyone know >if >Kevin Sharp's into the scene?I really like the guy's voice in Brutal > >truth,and some of the stuff he did with Cobra was funny Was that recorded? I also heard he sang with Naked City live at some point, which makes sense. >Last thing heard,he was in a ''hate-core'' band called Damaged....but I > >didn't find it anywhere(if anyone has it,mail me) I have the last damaged album, the music is pretty great but I couldn't really stand the vocalist. The new one is out on the same label, Rotten. The link is: http://www.rottenrecords.com/damaged.html Also, Damaged is Australian, so who knows, maybe he's in Australia. >Oh yeah...maybe some of you avant-gardist dudes will like this > >band....it's called Exit-13....it's ''kind of grindcore''(like ''bungle > >is kind of a rock band''),but they put out a cd with some old 60's jazz > >covers...I found it funny. Is that "Smoking SOngs"? I have "Ethos Musick," another one where I liked a lot of the music but not the singer. Nothing against grind singers in general, just something about these two bands. WY _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: Re: e-a Date: 20 Nov 2000 19:28:38 GMT >But really, if we are going to get at the crux of Jon's momentus crack > >about the avant-death of the saxophone and move beyond eulogies cloaked > >in denial we should try to understand what Keith Rowe meant when he >said >that the current movement in electro-acoustic improv is one that >is >post-Duchampian. Is this a joke? >It is a broad statement for certain. I'm a theorist, not apractitioner. >Theorists make broad statements. It's our profession. You mean, you are a professional internet discussion group theorist? Or something else? Because I tried to look and see if you had any other writings by searching the net and that was all I could find. Just curious, really. Anyway, I agree with Skip H. and Kurt G.'s statements more or less, not that that has anything to do with this question. No offense meant, W _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: electroaccoustic dressed up as the vanguard Date: 20 Nov 2000 12:02:52 -0800 OK, let's go for a cheap shot: On Sat, 18 Nov 2000 04:19:52 GMT "Bill Ashline" wrote: > > It is a broad statement for certain. I'm a theorist, not a practitioner. > Theorists make broad statements. It's our profession. I don't think I guess so, as testified by Stockhausen (playing the role of the practitioner) commenting on Adorno (playing the role of the theorist): He [Stockhausen] describes the evolution of point music in PUNKTE and KONTRA-PUNKTE. The approach was criticised by philosopher Theodor Adorno for its lack of structure. "I said, but Professor, you are looking for a chicken in an abstract painting. That's when I began to have my doubts about intellectuals and so-called specialists..." Adorno was "not basically a creative person". Review of the book STOCKHAUSEN ON MUSIC: LECTURES AND INTERVIEWS in THE WIRE, May 2000 (06/27/00) Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: electroaccoustic dressed up as the vanguard Date: 20 Nov 2000 14:35:25 -0500 As they say, in theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practive there is. On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 12:02:52PM -0800, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > OK, let's go for a cheap shot: > > On Sat, 18 Nov 2000 04:19:52 GMT "Bill Ashline" wrote: > > > > It is a broad statement for certain. I'm a theorist, not a practitioner. > > Theorists make broad statements. It's our profession. I don't think > > I guess so, as testified by Stockhausen (playing the role of the practitioner) > commenting on Adorno (playing the role of the theorist): -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim McLoughlin" Subject: Gratkowski / electro-acoustic arguments / avant harmonica? Date: 20 Nov 2000 19:10:10 -0500 Hi First a thanks to those who responded to my info request regarding the Shumacher and Gratkowski shows at roulette. I saw the latter. I'll mention some opinions on the show, with some comments related to the current electronics as the future of the avant-garde debate. It was a nice mix of challenging composition and improv, and spanned a wide range of dynamics from rawkus frenzies to minimalism along the lines of the Greg Kelly / Bhob Rainey set at Tonic last week. The compositions were based on Gratkowski's own improvisations, and used as a starting point for group improv. In some discussion later that evening, he said he does this to blur the lines between composition and improv for the listener (though you get some idea by noting when the other musicians refer to charts). I wasn't initially into his sax playing, but it slowly grew on me, especially the sounds generated on clarinet - some bellowing multi-phonic stuff. The rhythm section of Formaneck and Hemmingway was great, particularly given the difficulty of the tunes and the fact that it was Formaneck's first performance of them. This was the first concert of a US Tour for Gratkowski. For those interested, he'll be performing solo in most other places. I didn't get dates, but he mentioned Easthampton, Boston, Toronto, Athens, Atlanta, Nashville, and Portland among others. Which brings me to some e-a points: Gratkowski and Hemmingway's extended techniques and textures seemed very original on Saturday. What is the difference between whether their respective technique/vocabulary is extended acoustically or electronically? Are they breaking less ground or saying something less important in either case? What's the difference between Greg Kelley's use of a metal sheet as a trumpet mute versus Evan Parker's saxophone processed by some effects on a laptop? During the very quiet, minimal moments of the Roulette show, Gerry Hemmingway was doing some stuff with thin metal rods on his snare drum and a tube he blew through to create textures on the floor tom. It sounded very similar to some of the textures I heard on the "Tom and Gerry" Erstwhile release. Is Hemmingway's use of these techniques in a strictly acoustic setting somehow less interesting than it is when combined with electronics? Le Quan Ninh did not use any electronics (as far as I could tell) in his performance at Tonic last week, but displayed some highly original techniques and sounds using cymbals, a bass drum, and other items. The whole show, which I enjoyed, had no electronic element. So I'm a bit confused as to why an all acoustic performance like Ninh / Rhainey / Kelley seems to get the nod from e/a champions, while other acoustic performances don't seem to be afforded the same leeway. What's the distinguishing factor? Is it that at least one or more of these artists (Ninh in the case of the tonic show) has previously worked in electronics? Would the argument be that some aspects of their acoustic technique have been exclusively enhanced by interaction with electronic players? That would seem hard to swallow... As a side note, I enjoy some of the e/a stuff I've been exposed to on this list - the Tom and Gerry release, the Charizma 002 release, and particularly the outrageous BART record. I just don't see why these or other electro-acoustic performances (and the relevant musicians) be more easily afforded cutting edge distinction. Also for those dubious of contemporary harmonica innovation, I recall a Young Philadelphians show (Ribot, Zorn, Tacuma, Weston) where Zorn played harmonica as the group moved from a free-funk thing into an outrageous C&W style stomp. Is that avant-garde? If not, at least it's some token Zorn content...;-) Jim McLoughlin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: Gratkowski / electro-acoustic arguments / avant harmonica? Date: 20 Nov 2000 19:18:20 -0500 Jim McLoughlin wrote: > I > wasn't initially into his sax playing, but it slowly grew on me, especially > the sounds generated on clarinet - some bellowing multi-phonic stuff. The > rhythm section of Formaneck and Hemmingway was great, particularly given the > difficulty of the tunes and the fact that it was Formaneck's first > performance of them. This was also my first exposure to Gratkowski and, like Jim, his stuff grew on me as the evening progressed. I thought most of his thematic material was clearly indebted to Braxton, but his own playing was pretty unique and he certainly covered a lot of ground. I tended to enjoy the freer pieces more (especially the one which stayed at ppp level for the most part), but still thought two highlights were his "West Coast" composition, "California Roll" which was redolent of Lee Konitz and the concluding number, "Collapse II", a driving thing that sounded like an acoustic Last Exit. As Jim said, Formanek and, especially, Hemingway were quite impressive, the latter showing great command at either extreme of the volume scale. Gratkowski also get points for his charming and humorous persona. Brian Olewnick NP: Gustafsson - Parrot Fish Eye - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fag music" Subject: razor sharp blades Date: 20 Nov 2000 20:18:36 -0800 some of the stuff he did with Cobra was funny > >Was that recorded? I also heard he sang with Naked City live at some point, >which makes sense. Dunno about Naked city,but his contribution to Cobra can be heard in the Live at the Knitting Factory album.It's track 4 or 5,or both,if I recall.I liked it.You can definitely tell it's him. >I have the last damaged album, the music is pretty great but I couldn't >really stand the vocalist. The new one is out on the same label, Rotten. The >link is: And you do have Exit-13 too,huh?Hey,that's interesting...but tell me:wanna trade?Mail me,dude.As for the jazz covers album,I liked it.It's hella funny,reminds me of some Anal cunt stuff. Exits, 14 >From: "William York" >To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: kevin sharp >Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 19:19:20 GMT > >>Not sure wether this has to do with avant-garde or not, but anyone know >if >>Kevin Sharp's into the scene?I really like the guy's voice in Brutal >> >truth,and some of the stuff he did with Cobra was funny > >Was that recorded? I also heard he sang with Naked City live at some point, >which makes sense. > >>Last thing heard,he was in a ''hate-core'' band called Damaged....but I >> >didn't find it anywhere(if anyone has it,mail me) > >I have the last damaged album, the music is pretty great but I couldn't >really stand the vocalist. The new one is out on the same label, Rotten. The >link is: > >http://www.rottenrecords.com/damaged.html > >Also, Damaged is Australian, so who knows, maybe he's in Australia. > >>Oh yeah...maybe some of you avant-gardist dudes will like this >> >band....it's called Exit-13....it's ''kind of grindcore''(like ''bungle >> >is kind of a rock band''),but they put out a cd with some old 60's jazz >> >covers...I found it funny. > >Is that "Smoking SOngs"? I have "Ethos Musick," >another one where I liked a lot of the music but not the singer. Nothing >against grind singers in general, just something about these two bands. > >WY > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. > > >- http://e2893.37.com/Free-E-Card/ <--- You Have A Greeting :) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Gratkowski / electro-acoustic arguments / avant harmonica? Date: 21 Nov 2000 01:48:06 EST In a message dated 11/20/00 7:11:16 PM, jim@intelligenesis.net writes: << So I'm a bit confused as to why an all acoustic performance like Ninh /=20 Rainey / Kelley seems to get the nod from e/a champions, while other acousti= c=20 performances don't seem to be afforded the same leeway. What's the distinguishing factor? >> I didn't see the Gratkowski trio show, so it's tough for me to answer your=20 question. many (not all) of the acoustic improv shows I see tend to lapse=20 into what I find to be cliches. the Ninh/Greg/Bhob trio show transcended=20 this, at least for me. <= > well, for me, it's not that the techniques are less interesting, it's that=20 the overall music being made is less interesting (again, based not on this=20 show, but on the handful of times I've seen Gerry in various contexts in the= =20 last year). <> not exclusively enhanced, but I do think that these three musicians happen t= o=20 be more open than most acoustic improvisers to the endless possibilities=20 opened up by incorporating electronics into improv. along with a few other=20 musicians like John Butcher, I think they use some of these ideas into their= =20 acoustic music. my original statement was, in response to someone questioning how much more=20 there is to be said with sine waves, "the real question, if you ask me, is=20 "how much more to be said with saxophones?" does that mean that a new,=20 mindblowingly great saxophonist won't appear tomorrow? of course not, but in= =20 my opinion, there's much more room to explore in pure improvised electronics= ,=20 electroacoustics, and acoustic musicians influenced by electronics. as=20 always, your mileage may vary. all that being said, I've been enjoying quite a few trumpet recordings=20 lately, the Bill Dixon ones I mentioned here a little while ago, the solo=20 Kelley, and some live recordings of Axel D=F6rner with Kevin Drumm. not sure= =20 what that means exactly... Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lee, Edgar" Subject: sharp knife Date: 21 Nov 2000 18:06:59 +1100 Kevin Sharp still lives in the USA. He only tours with Damaged, who are from Ballarat, Australia. The drummer from Damaged previously played in a grindcore band called Blood duster who were named after a Naked City track. The original and best Damaged singer Jamie Ludbrook later played in Australian versions of Cobra. Edgar - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: All that electro-acoustic discussion and the avant-garde, etc. Date: 21 Nov 2000 10:16:25 -0000 >From: "Patrice L. Roussel" >OK, let's go for a cheap shot: >He [Stockhausen] describes the evolution of point music in PUNKTE and >KONTRA-PUNKTE. The approach was criticised by philosopher Theodor Adorno >for >its lack of structure. "I said, but Professor, you are looking for a >chicken >in an abstract painting. That's when I began to have my doubts about >intellectuals and so-called specialists..." Adorno was "not basically a >creative person". Ouch Patrice. I should have seen that one coming. But then we've been here before and I've stated that I'll NEVER defend Adorno on music. Stockhausen is basically right to have doubts about intellectuals, but before he throws in the towel altogether, he should give the "Dialectic of Enlightenment" a round or two. >From: Joseph Zitt >As they say, in theory there is no difference between theory and practice, >but in practive there is. Fair enough, Joseph, but for me good theory is "music" to my ears, which I'm glad to have been able to train myself to "hear." ;-) >From: "Jim McLoughlin" >Also for those dubious of contemporary harmonica innovation, I recall a >Young Philadelphians show (Ribot, Zorn, Tacuma, Weston) where Zorn played >harmonica as the group moved from a free-funk thing into an outrageous C&W >style stomp. Is that avant-garde? If not, at least it's some token Zorn >content...;-) Good questions Jim. I always "read" Zorn as a kind of postmodernist who derived his aesthetic out of a grand pastiche, at least until Masada, which was more synthetic. Postmodernists gave up on the avant-garde, probably for good reason, sensing there wasn't anything more to be done with it. >From: "William York" >You mean, you are a professional internet discussion group theorist? Or >something else? Because I tried to look and see if you had any other >writings by searching the net and that was all I could find. Just curious, >really. You're curious eh? Well no. None of my theory is available on the internet. Only via direct mail on data CDRs. Though I am looking for an American distributor. My hope is that by keeping my intellectual work off the internet, I won't have to deal with copyright violations were it to be stolen. In the meantime you will have to do with my limited contributions to this site, carried out between marking some rather dull papers. ;-) _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: zxmqq16@student.uni-tuebingen.de Subject: e# syndaKit Date: 21 Nov 2000 11:17:48 +0100 (MET) hi all, i just resubscribed to the list after months of not being here, so i dont know what was going on lately. anyways: i had the chance to play live with mr. elliot sharp one week ago and have to say that it was a great musical and personal experience. here in tuebingen, germany we performed his piece SyndaKit with a bunch of local musicians. Great stuff!!! If you have the chance, everybody interested in E#s work should try to get his/her hands on the limited to 400 copies CD of the SyndaKit performance at the Knitting Factory. And those of you being able to read music: Get the scores from his official website, so that you have the chance to completely understand the idea behind the piece. Anyways, if you have the chance to see SyndaKit live, go and have fun. It=ABs an experience, close to seeing Mr. Zorn perform one of his game pieces. Bjoern - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: All that electro-acoustic discussion and the avant-garde, etc. Date: 21 Nov 2000 10:52:56 -0500 On Tue, Nov 21, 2000 at 10:16:25AM -0000, Bill Ashline wrote: > >From: Joseph Zitt > > >As they say, in theory there is no difference between theory and practice, > >but in practive there is. > > Fair enough, Joseph, but for me good theory is "music" to my ears, which I'm > glad to have been able to train myself to "hear." ;-) I agree... but I find that the theory flows best when it gets so far away from practice that it becomes its own beautiful, abstracted glass bead game. But then, I always enjoyed mathematics in inverse proportion to how useful it appeared to be. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: electroaccoustic dressed up as the vanguard Date: 21 Nov 2000 17:33:30 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- > intellectuals and so-called specialists..." Adorno was "not basically a > creative person". Which proves that Stockhausen was an intelligent one. > Review of the book STOCKHAUSEN ON > MUSIC: LECTURES AND INTERVIEWS in THE > WIRE, May 2000 (06/27/00) Is there any way of getting the book ? Is it currently available (sorry for bothering, but with internet connection in poland it's sometimes hard to search the web) Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Gratkowski / electro-acoustic arguments / avant harmonica? Date: 21 Nov 2000 11:57:04 -0500 JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > all that being said, I've been enjoying quite a few trumpet recordings > lately, the Bill Dixon ones I mentioned here a little while ago, the so= lo > Kelley, and some live recordings of Axel D=F6rner with Kevin Drumm. not= sure > what that means exactly... Perhaps it's a reflection of something Joe McPhee told me yesterday in an interview about his own work. He says he gravitated towards the saxophon= e, among other reasons, because the trumpet (his first instrument) and its p= layers have always lagged behind the saxophonists in terms of sheer innovation a= nd boundary stretching. Perhaps you're gravitating towards trumpeters tryin= g to close the gap... In the cases of Kelley and Dorner this would certainly = seem to be the case. They're doing things timbrally that I've not heard before. Perhaps there's more room for the kind of sheer innovation and surprise y= ou're not finding in the sax world, where the tradition from Pharoah and Ayler = through Parker and Brotzmann to Butcher and Gustafsson has pushed the sonic envel= ope about as far as it can go, technique-wise. The same could be said for Ni= nh in re: percussion, perhaps. Just a thought. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "James Kirchmer" Subject: singer/picker DANNY BARNES (Bad Livers, etc) - *LIVE* 11/24-25 Date: 21 Nov 2000 08:51:43 -0800 Hi, just a quick shout out here to all you folks out there in internet-land who might live in/near SEATTLE, WA --> (or, if ya have a friend there, do consider fwding this info to 'em! - they'll give new meanin' to the word "thanksgiving" ;) ---> Danny Barnes, the Texas-bred American singer & picker extraoridinaire (of the BAD LIVERS & "Bill Frisell's Willies" fame, among *MANY* other fine acts/projects.... including a just-released "solo" record on Cavity Search - [ www.cavitysearchrecords.com ~ www.dannybarnes.com ] - not to mention the fact that he's Frisell's banjo teacher...) ---> will be playing LIVE at Seattle, WA's "historic" (and currently rapidly "improving" - i.e. - better sound :) ** RAINBOW ** this upcoming Thanksgiving weekend. Here's the skinny: ** ON FRI. ~AND~ SAT., NOV 24th & NOV 25th -------> * "THEE OLD CODGERS" will open each night, and feature: Danny Barnes - vocals/banjo Keith Lowe (Zony Mash, Bill Frisell, etc., etc.) - bass Jon Parry - fiddle (ex-Goosecreek Symphony, 78-rpm) * "THEE HEATHEN" headline each night, and feature: Danny Barnes - vocals/electric guitar! Keith Lowe - electric bass (see above) Dan Tyack - pedal steel! (ex-Asleep at the Wheel!) Andy Roth - drums (Zony Mash) * AT: THE RAINBOW - 722 NE 45th St. (by I-5 / U-District) Club phone: 206-634-1761 / website: www.therainbow.cc * TIME: 10pm start each night * COVER: $6 (bargain city, folks!!!!) * AGES: 21+ * (beer/liquor/smoke available!) ***** SPECIAL - $2.50 MICROS ALL WEEKEND! ***** The music you'll ^hear will start out with a bit of bluegrass, (^disclaimer: Danny tends to be a "genre" all unto himself! ;) with the mostly acoustic THEE OLD CODGERS, and slowly morph into a wicked mix of classic American music -- all the way from the "tear in your beer" kinda thang -- to ac/dc-ish "beer in the air" sorta craziness, so to speak, courtesy of the absolutely *honkin* *cryin* and *rockin* THEE HEATHEN, perhaps best described by the following media quote..... ======= DANNY BARNES & THE HEATHEN (Owl 'n' Thistle) What a treat it has been to hear Danny Barnes (Bad Livers, Old Codgers) pick up his electric guitar once again with this phenomenal new band, starring Zony Mash's rhythm section and pedal steel ace Dan Tyack. It's simply a case of Danny wanting to use "the right wrench for the job" -- as many of his songs, both old and new, call for the kinda muscle his trusty old banjo just ain't got. He's also breathing new life into classic country tunes and rockin' covers of the likes of the MC5 and Roky Erickson. In sum, welcome to Americana bar-band heaven. - (The STRANGER, Seattle - "UP & COMING" sec. - 12/23/99) ======= ......and best explored further by visiting the websites related to these mighty fine musicians, for starters: www.dannybarnes.com (music is good. period.) www.cavitysearchrecords.com (see Danny Barnes) www.sugarhillrecords.com (see Bad Livers) www.tyacktunes.com (pedal steel ace Dan Tyack) www.moonliner.com (bassman Keith Lowe) www.78-rpm.com (Jon Parry's bluegrass crew) www.zonymash.com (Keith & Andy's "other" band) Thanks for listening, and have a happy Thanksgiving! Sincerely, James K. Seattle, WA, USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rob, the Belgian Guy" Subject: Mac help (no Music content) Date: 21 Nov 2000 18:39:45 +0800 Zorn-agains, Since all of us have left the wicked world of pop in search of musical truth, I assume many of us did the same thing on a virtual scale and converted to the gospel of Macintosh after a life of Microsoft addiction. Being a new convert I would to ask someone to be my Macintosh mentor. Respond privately. Thanks brothers, Rob Allaert Rob@llaert.NU - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rob, the Belgian Guy" Subject: Mac help (no Music content) Date: 21 Nov 2000 18:39:45 +0800 Zorn-agains, Since all of us have left the wicked world of pop in search of musical truth, I assume many of us did the same thing on a virtual scale and converted to the gospel of Macintosh after a life of Microsoft addiction. Being a new convert I would to ask someone to be my Macintosh mentor. Respond privately. Thanks brothers, Rob Allaert Rob@llaert.NU - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Les Rhoda" Subject: Ribot guest appearance on local CD/Intro Date: 21 Nov 2000 19:29:50 -0000 This kinda wavers off topic here, but if you are as far from Downtown NYC as I am here in Portland, ME, little things like this give a momentary lapse of Mainedom... Excerpted from our local arts rag, the Casco Bay Weekly: DARIEN BRAHMS GOES SWEET, SOUR, AND SOLO As veterans of Portland's music scene know, Darien Brahms, chanteuse/guitarist of the Latin-lounge-rock combo the Munjoy Hill Society, had a long, if intermittent, solo career before she boarded the Smirnoff and sailed into the hearts of local music fans. Now, Brahms is jumping overboard with the release of "Little Bundle of Sugar," her first album under her own name in nearly a decade. -snip- Though she's still part of the Society, Brahms' new album explores several other musical styles with the help of Munjoy Hill crewmates Matt Staples and Paul Chamberlain, drummer Ginger Cote of Coming Grass fame, esteemed session guitarist **Marc Ribot** (who appears on two tracks) and others. [asterisks added] -snip- Brahms financed the album with $1,000 she won last spring from what she calls her "semi-successful appearance" on "Paranoia," a game show on the Fox Family Channel. ----------------- Apparently Ms. Brahms knew a bassist who had worked with Ribot and just cold-called him for the session. That is cooler than Canada Dry. Although I use this list for educational purposes and not to spout off, I guess I'll give a quick introduction- my name is Les, I live in Portland, ME, and play saxophones and samplers in a couple of bands. My project is called Shortly After Takeoff, a 12 piece improvisational house/jungle/ambient/tribalistic trancefusion freakout (A swell cat, that Ribot. He even supplied me with a perfect name for a band), the other a funk/soul/reggae band called Sly-Chi. I've been on this list before and have been lurking for quite a while. Zorn and Frisell are two of my heroes (thought I must admit I have not been into buying much of Bill's recent mellower stuff. Eventually... but not now.) I'm also into Negativland, John Oswald, the Droplift Project, and their ilk. BTW, if any of you nonprofiting collectors out there have an imperfect yet blissed-out tape of Frisell playing a solo show at Scullers 4/9/96, that came from me! (I'm going to burn in hell, I know...) ... I did once hear a rumor that Zorn has a brother who is a lawyer here, though none list in the phone book.... Back to lurk-n-learn, Les A resident of Munjoy Hill _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim McLoughlin" Subject: Gratkowski dates Date: 21 Nov 2000 15:29:27 -0500 Hi As a tangent to my last post, I thought I would post some tour date info I received for Gratkowski . He isn't sure of the venue in all cases, but provided contact info. The Empty Bottle show in Chicago looks intereesting... November 20. East Hampton (CT) 21. Boston (MA) Zeitgeist Gallery (I think it's in Cambridge) 25. Montreal (QC, Canada) (with Sam Shalabi git., Alexandre St-Onge bass and Alex MacSween drums) info: 26. Guelph (Ontario,Canada) info: "Jesse" 28,29. Carrboro (NC) one set solo one with the MicroEastCollective info:"Walter Davis" or "Ian Davis" 30. Athens (GA) Workshop December: 1. Athens (GA) Concert info:"Julie Powell" 2. Atlanta (GA) info: "Milton Jones" 3. Nashville (TN) info: VoightKampff@hotmail.com 5. Portland (OR) info: "Laura+Brad Winter" 6. Chicago (IL) Empty Bottle (with Fred Lonberg-Holm Cello and Jim Baker analog synth.) 8. Madison, (WI) (Duo with Scott Fields git.) info:"Scott Fields" 9. Detroit (MI) (Duo with John Lindberg bass) info: 10.Minneapolis (MN) info:"Jon Morgan" JM - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Gratkowski dates Date: 21 Nov 2000 13:54:45 -0800 Should be a great show since (cherry on top of the cake) Frank will play with Seattlelites Michael Bisio and Eyvind Kang! On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:29:27 -0500 "Jim McLoughlin" wrote: > > 5. Portland (OR) info: "Laura+Brad Winter" December 5, 8:00pm at First Christian Church (1315 SW Broadway) Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sergio luque" Subject: stockhausen on music (was: Re: electroaccoustic dressed up as the vanguard ) Date: 21 Nov 2000 23:56:45 -0600 "Marcin Gokieli" asked: >Is there any way of getting the book ? Is it currently >available yes (it seems easy to get) and yes. _stockhausen on music: lectures and interviews_ compiled by robin maconie isbn: 0714529184 marion boyars reprint edition (may 1, 2000) ____________________________________________________________ sergio luque sergio@tomate.com.mx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: Gratkowski / electro-acoustic arguments / avant harmonica? Date: 22 Nov 2000 13:27:58 +0100 >From: Steve Smith > >Perhaps it's a reflection of something Joe McPhee told me yesterday in an >interview about his own work. He says he gravitated towards the saxophone, >among other reasons, because the trumpet (his first instrument) and its >players >have always lagged behind the saxophonists in terms of sheer innovation and >boundary stretching. Perhaps you're gravitating towards trumpeters trying >to >close the gap... In the cases of Kelley and Dorner this would certainly >seem to >be the case. They're doing things timbrally that I've not heard before. In this vein there´s a trumpet player from Vienna: Franz Hautzinger. He´s doing really unusual things with his instrument and combines it with electronics. Definitely worth checking out... Andreas _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: The Blue Notes Date: 22 Nov 2000 11:47:28 EST I was recently sent a CD (pressed in France) by The Blue Notes, a South African hard bop quintet from the early sixties. The liner notes weren't as thorough as one might have hoped. Anyone know anything about them? And "anything" means anything. thanks -- skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: The Blue Notes Date: 22 Nov 2000 11:58:16 EST In a message dated 11/22/00 11:48:40 AM, Velaires@aol.com writes: << I was recently sent a CD (pressed in France) by The Blue Notes, a South African hard bop quintet from the early sixties. The liner notes weren't as thorough as one might have hoped. Anyone know anything about them? And "anything" means anything. >> is it this record? www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/labels/ogun/ogunc007.html it's an early documentation of the original band of Dudu Pukwana, Louis Moholo, Johnny Dyani, etc. pretty good, but not as essential as the bulk of their later work. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: The Blue Notes Date: 22 Nov 2000 12:06:24 EST In a message dated 11/22/0 8:59:26 AM, JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: <> That's the one, and I did indeed get the sense that this was definitely the tip of the iceberg. What else do you know/recommend/advise? skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: The Blue Notes Date: 22 Nov 2000 12:34:15 EST Velaires@aol.com writes: > Anyone know anything about them? And > "anything" means anything. There is unfortunately very little information on '60s South African jazz. Here's what I know: The Blue Notes [Mongezi Feza (t), Dudu Pukwana (as), Nick Moyake (ts), Chris McGregor (p), Johnny Dyani (b), Louis Mohola (d)] are probably S.A.'s most "legendary" band after the Jazz Epistles [trumpeter Hugh Masekela, pianist Dollar Brand (Abdullah Ibrahim), trombonist Jonas Gwanga, altoist Kippie Moeketsi, bassist Johnny Gertze, and drummer Makaya Ntshako]. Here's an excerpt from the Rough Guide to World Music: "The departure of the principle Epistles [Brand, Masekela, and Gwanga went into exile in 1960] left a large gap in the local jazz scene, but the 1962 Cold Castle Jazz Festival demonstrated that a new generation of jazzmen had been inspired by their example. Pianist-composer Chris McGregor and tenor saxophonist Dudu Pukwana were probably the most famous and influential musicians in the new wave. [...] The best players from several bands which performed at the 1963 Castle Jazz Festival were gathered together under the direction of Chris McGregor and produced a classic LP, "Jazz The African Sound", perhaps the finest single product of a brilliant era. Sadly, it also proved a swansong. A general wave of oppression had followed the Sharpville massacre of 1960 and, as the government dug in with its new order, many of South Africa's best minds and talents fled the country into exile. The progressive jazzers were badly affected as apartheid regulations designed to seperate mixed-race bands [McGregor was white, I believe] became increasingly onerous. In the face of this dispiriting onslaught, McGregor, Pukwana and their entire band, the Blue Notes, including Louis Moholothe, left the country for good in 1964. The Blue Notes, and their later manifestation, the Brotherhood of Breath, added a distinctive touch to the rather moribund European jazz scene but, as was the case with other exiles, their influence on musical development in South African ceased at that point." (1994, p. 393-4). I've been meaning to pick up some Blue Notes and Brotherhood of Breath recordings for some time, but thusfar I only have a couple tracks from the Blue Notes on compilations. From what i've heard though, they put out some great stuff. Given the sad effect of apartheid on these two legendary bands, I'm surprised there has yet to be a better written account of S.A. jazz in the early 1960s. Any writers out there? hope this helps, jeff caltabiano n.p. dexter gordon: our man in paris - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: The Blue Notes Date: 22 Nov 2000 12:38:06 EST --part1_ee.d6441f1.274d5e7e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/22/00 11:48:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, Velaires@aol.com writes: > I was recently sent a CD (pressed in France) by The Blue Notes, a South > African hard bop quintet from the early sixties. The liner notes weren't > as > thorough as one might have hoped. Anyone know anything about them? And > "anything" means anything. > I think they were already South African ex-patriates, living in England when the Blue Notes were formed. If memory serves correctly, they were comprised of Fezi, Moholo, Dyani,....arrrgh!...memory fades.... -- =dg= --part1_ee.d6441f1.274d5e7e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/22/00 11:48:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Velaires@aol.com writes:


I was recently sent a CD (pressed in France) by The Blue Notes, a South
African hard bop quintet from the early sixties.  The liner notes weren't
as
thorough as one might have hoped.  Anyone know anything about them? And
"anything" means anything.


I think they were already South African ex-patriates, living in England when
the Blue Notes were formed.  If memory serves correctly, they were comprised
of Fezi, Moholo, Dyani,....arrrgh!...memory fades....


--
=dg= --part1_ee.d6441f1.274d5e7e_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: hautzinger Date: 22 Nov 2000 13:13:07 EST In a message dated 11/22/00 7:44:48 AM, andreasdietz@hotmail.com writes: << In this vein there=B4s a trumpet player from Vienna: Franz Hautzinger. He= =B4s=20 doing really unusual things with his instrument and combines it with=20 electronics. Definitely worth checking out... >> yeah, Hautzinger has a new solo CD on Grob (www.churchofgrob.com), Gomberg,=20 with extensive liner notes by Bill Dixon, and is also a member of the=20 Zeitkratzer ensemble (recently replacing Axel D=F6rner). he's performing 2 s= ets=20 at the festival I'll be attending in Ulrichsberg in a few weeks=20 (http://jazzatelier.nwy.at/program_e.html), solo and in trio with John=20 Butcher and Christof Kurzmann. I'm not fully convinced he's on the same leve= l=20 as the guys I mentioned earlier in this thread, but I'm looking forward to=20 seeing him play in Ulrichsberg. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: zorm & pastiche Date: 22 Nov 2000 18:31:08 Bill Ashline theorized: >I always "read" Zorn as a kind of postmodernist who >derived his aesthetic out of a grand pastiche, at least until Masada, > >which was more synthetic. Postmodernists gave up on the avant-garde, > >probably for good reason, sensing there wasn't anything more to be done > >with it. Ok, but where would stuff like Archery, Classic Guide to Strategy, Pool, Locus Solus, etc fit into this? Because those don't seem like pastiche to me. Or maybe you weren't referring to those ... WY _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dirlack@t-online.de (Bjoern Dirlack) Subject: Re: hautzinger Date: 22 Nov 2000 20:52:13 +0100 JonAbbey2@aol.com schrieb: > > yeah, Hautzinger has a new solo CD on Grob (www.churchofgrob.com), Gomberg, > with extensive liner notes by Bill Dixon, and is also a member of the > Zeitkratzer ensemble (recently replacing Axel Dörner). he's performing 2 sets > at the festival I'll be attending in Ulrichsberg in a few weeks > (http://jazzatelier.nwy.at/program_e.html), solo and in trio with John > Butcher and Christof Kurzmann. I'm not fully convinced he's on the same level > as the guys I mentioned earlier in this thread, but I'm looking forward to > seeing him play in Ulrichsberg. no, he´s not on the same level. But last week he performed in his new quartet _LIIN_ (Florian Kmet/guitar + Radian-members Martin Brandlmayer and Stefan Nemeth) at the Charizma/Durian festival in Berlin - great concert! They played in a Radian-like style - quiet, just breathing. Bjoern - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: hautzinger Date: 22 Nov 2000 15:33:33 EST In a message dated 11/22/00 2:53:45 PM, Dirlack@t-online.de writes: << But last week he performed in his new quartet _LIIN_ (Florian Kmet/guitar + Radian-members Martin Brandlmayer and Stefan Nemeth) at the Charizma/Durian festival in Berlin - great concert! They played in a Radian-like style - quiet, just breathing. >> how were the other bands on that bill, Machine For Making Sense and the qmince trio of Christof Kurzmann, Marina Rosenfeld and Kaffe Matthews? Machine for Making Sense played NYC last night, and I was pretty disappointed. anyone else in or near Berlin, there's some potentially superb shows at Podewil this weekend, including the quartet of Kurzmann, Drumm, Dafeldecker and Erik M., as well as Kurzmann sitting in with To Rococo Rot. full program at www.podewil.de. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: hautzinger Date: 22 Nov 2000 15:05:33 -0500 On Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 03:33:33PM -0500, JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > Machine for Making Sense played NYC last night, and I was pretty > disappointed. What did they do? Was it sound poetry-like, or have they moved onto other things? -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: hautzinger Date: 22 Nov 2000 16:25:20 EST In a message dated 11/22/00 3:49:21 PM, jzitt@metatronpress.com writes: << > Machine for Making Sense played NYC last night, and I was pretty > disappointed. What did they do? Was it sound poetry-like, or have they moved onto other things? >> no, there was a lot of sound poetry, with a backdrop of electronics, reed instruments and a bit of hurdy-gurdy. some nice textures, but it never seemed to add up to much more than that. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: The Blue Notes Date: 22 Nov 2000 16:36:21 EST In a message dated 11/22/00 12:07:26 PM, Velaires@aol.com writes: << That's the one, and I did indeed get the sense that this was definitely the tip of the iceberg. What else do you know/recommend/advise? >> well, I've only got what's out on CD, and I'm sure there's lots that hasn't been reissued yet. both Dudu Pukwana discs I have are superb, Diamond Express (Freedom Japanese import), and especially In The Townships (Earthworks). there's 2 Brotherhood of Breath CDs that I know about, I prefer Live at Willisau (Ogun) to the eponymous one reissued on Repertoire. I never explored Johnny Dyani's discs much, and there's some later sessions, also on Ogun, led by Moholo which are pretty good. in general, most Ogun CD releases document one facet or another of the South African expatriate scene, and the quality level is very consistently high throughout their catalog. In The Townships is the one that rocks my world, though; good luck finding a copy. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fastian@aol.com Subject: The Blue Notes Date: 22 Nov 2000 19:24:39 EST >>Given the sad effect of apartheid on these two legendary bands, I'm surprised there has yet to be a better written account of S.A. jazz in the early 1960s. Any writers out there? hope this helps, jeff caltabiano>> I recommend Maxine McGregor's book "Chris McGregor and the Brotherhood of Breath. Chris's wife's account of all the touring,poverty, and personalities is really interesting. It was published in '95 so it shouldn't be that hard to find. I second Jon's recommendation of "In the Townships". Very memorable melodies set to infectious rhythyms. The BoB's "Country Cooking" is also good. Released on Virgin, probably one of their more available releases, though probably in the used bins. The Dedication Orchestra, an all star band on Ogun covers a lot of their tunes and both of their releases are well worth getting. I have many others, but are probably unavailable. Cheers, John Threadgould - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: The Blue Notes Date: 22 Nov 2000 21:01:12 -0500 While I also agree with Jon and others about "In the Townships", my favorites along these lines are Louis Moholo's "Spirits Rejoice!" on Ogun and Johnny Dyani's duet with Abdullah Ibrahim, "Good News from Africa" on Enja. Most of Dyani's work on Steeplechase is also quite fine, as is the Blue Note's tribute to him, "Blue Notes for Johnny". Brian Olewnick NP: Braxton - Composition 96 (Leo) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: The Blue Notes Date: 23 Nov 2000 11:53:05 -0500 (EST) Hate to nay say here. But after having Dudu's Freedom disc and hearing good things about the BoB, I was quite excited when I found a copy of Country Cooking marked down in a bin in Chicago's Jazz Record Mart last year. Unfortunately when I got home to Toronto and played it, I saw why it was marked down and why most sessions on large labels are suspect. The album sounded no different than an average big band session -- sorta like The Boss Brass or Thad Jones-Mel Lewis. If you like big band music, sure get it, but it certainly doesn't offer anything unique. Ken Waxman --- Fastian@aol.com wrote: >s. The BoB's > "Country Cooking" is also > good. Released on Virgin, probably one of their > more available releases, > though probably in the used bins. > - > _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Le Quanh Nin in Toronto Date: 23 Nov 2000 12:24:54 -0500 (EST) Le Quanh Nin put on a great performance in Toronto last night playing solo percussion and in a quartet of local improvisers. Solo he played multiple percussion --cymbals, bows, balls, wood etc, and what looked like a snare drum on steroids. He knows the proper way to produce unique sounds, and obviously knows every nuance of the percussion literature. Still, while enjoyable, he didn't impress me as much as Gunter Sommer (but maybe that's my "jazz" prejudices showing). However, as he began from a metaphoric running start, and was an out-and-out virtuoso, he actually reminded me most of another classically trained improviser -- violinist Jon Rose. Next up Nin played a fine percussion duet with local Tomasz Krakowiak, then the two were joined by guitarist Arnd Jorgenson and finally veteran altoist Maury Coles for some soundscape scraping. What I found most interesting is that when the four were going at it full blast, the result sounded a lot more like 1960s energy music than the more fashionable electroacoustic sound that I associate with Nin. Ken Waxman N.P. Stephen Horenstein Collage Jerusalem '85 -- a belated birthday present from a fiend. I know Horenstein had some association with Bill Dixon (whose spectre shadows this music), but I wonder what SH has done during the past 15 years. _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "George Scala" Subject: Re: Stephen Horenstein Date: 23 Nov 2000 12:34:09 -0500 I believe Stephen Horenstein has been living and teaching in Israel the past 20 years or so. He taught at Bennington College in the late 1970s, and his class "Introduction to Black Music" turned me on to Albert Ayler, Cecil Taylor, etc. George Scala http://www.mindspring.com/~scala ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 12:24 PM > N.P. Stephen Horenstein Collage Jerusalem '85 -- a > belated birthday present from a fiend. I know > Horenstein had some association with Bill Dixon (whose > spectre shadows this music), but I wonder what SH has > done during the past 15 years. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dirlack@t-online.de (Bjoern Dirlack) Subject: Re: Re: hautzinger Date: 23 Nov 2000 18:53:47 +0100 JonAbbey2@aol.com schrieb: > how were the other bands on that bill, Machine For Making Sense and the > qmince trio of Christof Kurzmann, Marina Rosenfeld and Kaffe Matthews? > Machine for Making Sense played NYC last night, and I was pretty > disappointed. me too. I saw them the second time and it was the second time boring. qmince trio played a superb performance! This week we had: Laetitia Sonami (not very interesting) Polwechsel (this time they bored me, although I really like them) Efzeg (GREAT! similarly to the famous Charhizma002 stuff) and THE concert of the year: Printer (Dafeldecker/Fussenegger/Kovacic)- quiet bass drones and/or quiet piccicato + turntable _scratching_ without a record and/or short _real music_ sequences. A deeply moving moment happend when Kovacic (who sat on the floor with his machines)scratched with the whole turntable on the stone-ground accompanied by the con-arco basses. Bjoern - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dirlack@t-online.de (Bjoern Dirlack) Subject: Re: The Blue Notes Date: 23 Nov 2000 19:27:00 +0100 JonAbbey2@aol.com schrieb: > > In The Townships is the one that rocks my world, though; good luck finding a > copy. Oh yes, this is an essential! Also recommendable from the same period is _Assagai_, a more afro-rock orientated group with Pukwana, Feza, Moholo a. o. (CD reissue on Repertoire). The Brotherhood records of the 70s are all fine, but the 80s stuff (Country Cooking and the Live record with Archie Shepp) I would not recommend - this is too much mainstream-big-band-sound. If you can get the old OGUN-vinyl stuff you MUST have Louis Moholo`s _Spirits Rejoice!_ Bjoern - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Stephen Horenstein Date: 23 Nov 2000 16:26:12 -0500 (EST) But has he ever recorded again? It seems to me that on the Collage disc to be dealing with (in 1985) some of the musical ideas that are common currency now in the improv and/or contemporary compositional scene. Ken Waxman --- George Scala wrote: > I believe Stephen Horenstein has been living and > teaching in Israel the past > 20 years or so. _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sinkas" Subject: Bill Laswell "Invisible Design" (Tzadik) Date: 24 Nov 2000 13:48:36 +1030 Hi all, I really like this disc, and have had it for some time now, I only = picked it up as it was in a second-hand store, Im glad I did! I think I recall this disc getting a pretty bad rap on this list, and I = never understoof why, as to me it sounds so mellow and sweet. Does anyoe know who plays on the album, is it all just Laswell, as I = cant see any other credits, I didnt get the spine card, so maybe it was = mentioned on that. If i dig this disc, is there any other discs that anyone would = reccommend, that are in a similar style. Case NP: you guessed it, Invisible Design "Alma Matters" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fag music" Subject: Death cube k(Bill,as well) Date: 23 Nov 2000 20:59:31 -0800 Speaking of which, what is this Death cube k cd?I heard it's Buckethead and Bill Laswell,but only managed to hear one track from their disembodied cd.Since I'm into Laswell AND Buckethead(who did the worst thing by joining GNR),I'd like to see some info on this one...is it good?Is it funny?Is is avant-garde?What the hell is death cube k supposed to mean anyway?Yeah,I guess that'd be cool to get some feedback. Axioms, Giant Robot >From: "sinkas" >To: >Subject: Bill Laswell "Invisible Design" (Tzadik) >Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 13:48:36 +1030 > >Hi all, >I really like this disc, and have had it for some time now, I only picked it up as it was in a second-hand store, Im glad I did! > >I think I recall this disc getting a pretty bad rap on this list, and I never understoof why, as to me it sounds so mellow and sweet. > >Does anyoe know who plays on the album, is it all just Laswell, as I cant see any other credits, I didnt get the spine card, so maybe it was mentioned on that. > >If i dig this disc, is there any other discs that anyone would reccommend, that are in a similar style. > >Case >NP: you guessed it, Invisible Design > > > > >"Alma Matters" > > >- http://e2893.37.com/Free-E-Card/ <--- You Have A Greeting :) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stinkipipi@aol.com Subject: Re: Death cube k(Bill,as well) Date: 24 Nov 2000 04:28:35 EST death cube k is buckethead's ambient project. guitar and atmospheres. there are 3 (i think) albums in total. the first, dreamatorium, was on the now defunct strata label. it's usually on ebay for relatively cheap. the second was disembodied, on ion. both have laswell involvement. the third is on travis dickerson records, or something travis dickerson runs. no laswell. i haven't heard the third, but the first two are quite good, imo. you can probably get them all from downtown music gallery. more info on the discography below, as well. dave bill laswell, eraldo bernocchi, mick harris and lori carson discographies : http://www.geocities.com/slntwtchr - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Death cube k(Bill,as well) Date: 24 Nov 2000 20:43:14 +1100 > What the hell is death cube k supposed to mean anyway? I guess it means nothing, but for it's relevance I suggest that you look at it alongside the name of Laswell's associate in the project... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stinkipipi@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Death cube k(Bill,as well) Date: 24 Nov 2000 04:54:05 EST >> What the hell is death cube k supposed to mean anyway? > re-arrange the letters. it's an anagram (is that the right word?) for buckethead. dave - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: zorn, postmodernism, and avantgardism Date: 24 Nov 2000 13:11:46 -0000 Mr. York queried to the effect that given "Elegy," "Locus Solus," and others, how could John Zorn be limited to being only a pastiche artist. To add to this argument, I could also include "Redbird" and "Filmworks 6," which I'm listening to now. My response: Does a theory need to totalize in order to be both accurate and useful? I did qualify my claim by saying "a kind of postmodernist," etc. I saw a tendency, not an absolute principle. And I've said previously in this space that residual avantgardism inhabits Zorn, as well as other influences based on his reading and travels (Locus Solus is a title based on a novel by Raymond Roussel). Nevertheless, I see Zorn as part of a milieu that saw the modernist project and avantgardism come to a conclusion. In literature, this was outlined by John Barth in "The Literature of Exhaustion," an essay that was followed by "The Literature of Replenishment" which sought to locate a postmodernist aesthetic in the recuperation of a prior era within the present (e.g. J.N. Coetzee's "Foe," based on Daniel Dafoe, Vladimir Nabokov's "Pale Fire," inspired by the 18th century British novel, and later in art in Clemente's miniatures and in philosophy in Deleuze's return to Spinoza, Leibniz, and the Baroque). Another strain of postmodernism was the complete unsettling of narrative and its immersive aspects (e.g. Alain Robbe-Grillet, Italo Calvino, etc.). The unsettling of aural immersion was one effect of Zorn's miniatures in Naked City. Yet another area was in the multiplification of ontologies via the construction of possible worlds, "Chinese-boxes" "trompe-l'oeil," the "mise-en-abyme" and diegetic crossings of ontological levels. A good book on this with regard to fiction but also touching on other areas is Brian McHale's "Postmodernist Fiction." If you're so inclined and are near a university library, you can read my article in the academic journal "Style" sometime in the fall of 1996, I believe, which is on the problem of logically impossible fictions. One of the consequences of this notion of "exhaustion" is the synthesis of seemingly disparate styles and motifs--Zorn's Masada, the much maligned Laswell's combination of dub and local ethnic musics, Jah Wobble's fusion of dub sensibilities with traditional music from Laos, etc., might serve as other conceptual versions of this postmodernist stroke. And yet another postmodernist strategy, elaborated rather well by Andreas Huyssen, was the aesthetic reversal of accursed, low genres (perhaps we could say Painkiller and Naked City are good examples of this kind of reversal, which have aspects of both pastiche and parody, particularly in NC). I've responded privately to Skip's good letter but I probably should say something more about Duchamp. The pivotal moment for Duchamp which led to the creation of the "readymade" was pivotal for Duchamp for certain; however, the artworld paid attention (Duchamp having established himself in cubism). Regardless of how one feels about philosophy and theory, all real avantgardes historically have been conceptual as much as aesthetic. this was the case with Duchamp and was his great innovation. It was a moment in which art became philosophy and it really led the way for abstraction's embrace of philosophy as well. Does any of this have anything to do with our particular enjoyments of music? Not at all. And does something necessarily have to be avantgarde in order to be good music, whatever that means? No, not at all. The point is that if there is a real avantgarde left in music, it's probably located in some relationship between the newer electronic technologies and the reconception of music as sound (IMO). I've been spinning a lot of the Erstwhile discs these days, and this stuff is really wild. It's pushing the envelope as far what can be called music, and it's methods I think are drawing attention to certain institutions of music. There are nods to Duchamp but also to minimalism. Since I don't think music has perhaps had its Duchampian moment other than perhaps with Cage, the Ritornell, Erstwhile, Mego, etc. artists may well exemplify it. But as Skip said, such a claim might only be self-packaging. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Re: Death cube k(Bill,as well) Date: 24 Nov 2000 09:02:33 EST In a message dated 11/24/00 4:45:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au writes: << Subj: Re: Death cube k(Bill,as well) Date: 11/24/00 4:45:28 AM Eastern Standard Time From: jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au (Julian) Sender: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com To: pattonsucks@37.com (Fag music), sinkas@camtech.net.au, zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > What the hell is death cube k supposed to mean anyway? I guess it means nothing, but for it's relevance I suggest that you look at it alongside the name of Laswell's associate in the project... >> Well in case no one else has mentioned it....if you rearrange the letters of Death Cube K, it spells Buckethead. Dale. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CuneiWay@aol.com Subject: Blue Notes/Brotherhood Of Breath Date: 24 Nov 2000 10:07:47 EST The Blue Notes were: Chris McGregor Dudu Pukwana Nick Moyoke [sp?] Mongezi Feza Louis Moholo Johnny Dyani they left South Africa in late '64, & landed in UK eventually. The Blue Notes eventually split up, but using all except Moyoke [who returned to S.A. to die of a brain tumor shortly after] & Dyani [who had a falling out & left & who was replaced by bassist Harry Miller], McGregor formed his unrecorded "big band", who then mutated into the Brotherhood Of Breath. There are TWO in print releases by the original version of the B.O.B. at this time: 1) their 1st - originally on RCA/NEON, & now on the German Repertoire label - a GREAT album & an excellent recording and 2) Live At Willisau - an excellent, if indiferently recorded document of them live. The band was rather beset by tragedy, & all the orig. South Africans are dead now except for Louis. Maxine McGregor, Chris' widow, wrote a book which is still in print as far as I know. It's not exactly "definitive", but it is a good window onto HER take on what was happening then & what the musicians went through. BTW - I know all of this because Cuneiform will release a CD - PROVISIONALLY entitled "Traveling Somewhere" in 2001 by Chris McGregor & The Brotherhood of Breath. For those who are interested, here's some more information: The band was: Harry Beckett - trumpet Marc Charig - trumpet Nick Evans - trombone Mongezi Feza - trumpet Malcolm Griffiths - trombone Chris McGregor - piano Harry Miller - bass Louis Moholo - drums Mike Osborne - alto sax Evan Parker - tenor sax Dudu Pukwana - alto sax Gary Windo - tenor sax The tunes are: - set 1 - 1) MRA [Dudu Pukwana] 2) Restless [Chris McGregor] 3) Ismite Is Might [Chris McGregor] 4) Kongi's Theme [Wole Soyinka] - set 2 - 5) Wood Fire [Chris McGregor] 6) The Bride [Dudu Pukwana] 7) Travelling Somewhere [Chris McGregor] -set 3- 8) Think Of Something [Mike Osborne] 9) Do It [Chris McGregor] Recorded January 19th, 1973 at Lila Eule, Bremen, Germany If anyone is interested in either of the in print CDs by the Brotherhood of Breath or the Blue Notes, please contact me privately, as we have them available for sale. Steve F. Cuneiform/Wayside - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Mendonca" Subject: bailey/marre? Date: 24 Nov 2000 11:13:14 -0500 does anyone know where i can get these videos? On the Edge: Improvisation in Music Jeremy Marre (U.K., 1991) * Written, Narrated by Derek Bailey. (Each part: 58 mins, Color, 3/4" video, PFA Collection, courtesy of Harcourt Films). pls reply to mendod@rpi.edu. thanks, david - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: Zorn & pastiche Date: 24 Nov 2000 14:22:12 -0600 > > >"William York" wrote: > > >Bill Ashline theorized: > > >I always "read" Zorn as a kind of postmodernist who > >derived his aesthetic out of a grand pastiche, at least until Masada, > > >which was more synthetic. Postmodernists gave up on the avant-garde, > > >probably for good reason, sensing there wasn't anything more to be done > > >with it. > >Ok, but where would stuff like Archery, Classic Guide to Strategy, Pool, >Locus Solus, etc fit into this? Because those don't seem like pastiche to >me. Or maybe you weren't referring to those ... I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "pastiche" here, but all of the pieces you mention here are literally put together from modules of sounds & styles interrupting each other and often recurring. They may not use recognizable source materials to the extent that, say, most of the Naked City compositions do, but they are, at least in part, about juxtaposition. -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147 817 377-2983 herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Chadbourne In Ventura Date: 24 Nov 2000 14:34:32 -0800 Ventura New Music Concert Series Dr. Eugene Chadbourne Extreme Solo Guitar and Banjo December 2, 2000 Ventura City Hall, Ventura California 501 Poli Street 8 PM $10 Admission NO ADVANCE TICKET SALES. Tickets at the door only. Opening will be the Jeff Kaiser Quintet Jeff Kaiser, tpt and electronics Steuart Liebing, basses and electronics Woody Aplanalp, guitars and electronics Brad Dutz, percussion Richie West, drums - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn & pastiche Date: 25 Nov 2000 02:36:47 EST In a message dated 11/24/0 2:15:45 PM, herb@eskimo.com wrote: <> It's very easy to say Zorn is a pastiche composer, a free improvising guy, and even a jazz musician, but -- to me -- the bottom line has always been that he is a guy who uses every technique he gets near. In my experience, guys who brand themselves as using one method -- be it be-bop, cubism, or Method Acting -- tend to exclude the use of other methodology in their work. It's a process of exclusion. I've always found Zorn to be one of the most inclusive musicians (/composers) anyone can name. In regards to the "pastiche" label, I'd be more inclined to level that one at Prince Paul, Christian Marclay, or other guys whose work revolves around the cumulaticve re-use of pre-existing materials. I don't think it's a term that sits comfortably when describing the work of somebody who writes in different styles then sticks 'em together. Granted -- the pastiche approach has often resulted in some amazing music (Public Enemy springs to mind), but I think it's made of a different task than writing different blocks (or pieces) of music that come of the command of different styles anymore than a meal that includes enchiladas and french fries would be. skip h NP: George Russell -- JAZZ IN THE SPACE AGE - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sinkas" Subject: Identify this unknown disc ? Date: 25 Nov 2000 22:45:29 +1030 Hi all, I am seeking your wisdom, as I just found out that the Bill Laswell = Disc That I raved about before "Invisible Design", is infact not what it = seemed. I noticed that on my PC it showed 2 extra tracks so I checked = the time of the disc etc, and nothing matched up.=20 I tried CDDB, or Gracenote as its now known, but it had no listing for = this disc. It is simple kind of freejazz with leading electric guitar. The disc is off-white (very light grey?) with kind of Jackson = Pollock-esque splatterings of white over it. it has no printing on the up side. On the playside I can make out its Cat No: BSR1098 Also says "Digital Domain" in that rim on the play side as well as the = usual cd markings. It plays 9 tracks with a length of 48.40 I bought it thinking it was laswells "Invisible Design" alas it appears = its not Thanks Case "Alma Matters" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Me" Subject: Shot Maker Date: 25 Nov 2000 11:32:37 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C056D3.6955E920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable can anyone give me any insight on this group? thanks. ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C056D3.6955E920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
can anyone give me any insight on this = group? =20 thanks.
------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C056D3.6955E920-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: Identify this unknown disc ? Date: 25 Nov 2000 11:39:25 -0500 If nothing else, you could try contacting Bob Katz, who would have mastered it at Digital Domain. (Don't have the address myself, but there's a Web site at http://www.digido.com/ that does have an "email us" form.) HTH, Maurice At 10:45 PM +1030 11/25/00, sinkas wrote: >Hi all, > I am seeking your wisdom, as I just found out that the Bill Laswell >Disc That I raved about before "Invisible Design", is infact not >what it seemed. ... >On the playside I can make out its Cat No: BSR1098 >Also says "Digital Domain" in that rim on the play side as well as >the usual cd markings. -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: matt shipp says hi Date: 25 Nov 2000 12:29:57 EST howdy, gang. i mentioned to mr shipp about the zorn-list conversations about him. he was pleasantly amused and confirmed what i had said about him here before; he had enough in the can already and wanted to give buyers a rest; we laughed about how we both have bought way too many discs to absorb, and he had that same fear about his disc-buying audience regarding himself. then he chuckled to himself, and confirmed, yes, the deal with thirsty ear made him reconsider and indeed in making new recordings to that series he's curating for thirsty ear. upcoming is shipp's session with leo smith, among others. he said it's his favorite so far, and then laughed at himself, saying he says that about every new disc, but he does really feel that way each time. he gave me an okay to report this to you, and wished all a happy thanksgiving as do i with love steve koenig. n.p.: bonnie pointer "heaven must have sent you," motown 7" dancemix (diff from 12" & LP) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fag music" Subject: Behave,animals Date: 25 Nov 2000 10:08:50 -0800 Well, I got one album from Death cube k,called Disembodied,and is good.Someone said is more guitar oriented,but the only one I thought was more guitar-oriented is the second track....anyway,it's cool if you're into Bill,but some bucketeers might not like it.I'd recommend Praxis for Bucketheaders.By the way,now that I mentioned it:does anyone know what's the lineup for Praxis's Mold?Cause it sure don't sound like Praxis,and I doubt Bucky's on it,since I didn't hear any guitars...it's more ambient,I guess.Anyone has any comments on any track of this album?Thank ya. Throes, Rasputin http://e2893.37.com/Free-E-Card/ <--- You Have A Greeting :) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stinkipipi@aol.com Subject: Re: Behave,animals Date: 25 Nov 2000 14:08:39 EST --part1_80.35a61a7.27516837_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it's reworkings of the original praxis 12" that laswell did (solo) in 1984. dave --part1_80.35a61a7.27516837_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it's reworkings of the original praxis 12" that laswell did (solo) in 1984.

dave --part1_80.35a61a7.27516837_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Hugo Linares" Subject: RE: The Funnest Album of the Year Date: 25 Nov 2000 23:55:16 -0200 Just to thank Stephen for his insight on this recording, regarding its remarkable and beautiful. For those who still haven't got it, don't miss Stian Carstensen's Farmers Market. It's pure bliss !! Later, Hugo Linares ----- Mensaje original ----- De: Stephen Fruitman Para: Enviado: Viernes 18 de Agosto de 2000 01:31 PM Asunto: The Funnest Album of the Year Another Norwegian who doesn´t know the meaning of the word "purism": Stian Carstensen, _Farmers Market_ (Winter & Winter). Combines jazzy, Gypsy accordian and sundry Bulgarian musicians on their domestic acoustic instruments, with a tight combo of Norwegian jazz musicians and occasional wailing guitars and tape loops and a dash of pickin´ and grinnin´ straight outta the Ozarks via Constantinople. Once, a small Bulgarian women´s choir pokes its head in. Some klezmer. Some ragtime. A remarkable piece for tabla, clarinet, bass and funky wah-wah guitar. Never a hint of that cloying aftertaste that sometimes lingers when someone gets the brilliant idea of combining "ethnic" music and jazz or rock. Rather, there is exhuberance, experimentation, melody, and a highly-developed sense of humour - or what do you say about a Beatles-inspired guitar tune called "Les Paul, More John"? Think Pachora versus Charms of the Night Sky versus Nils Petter Molvær versus the Masada Chamber Ensemble. Another gorgeous W&W package, too, featuring a booklet full of beautiful b&w photos of Gypsies from Uzbekistan, the Ukraine, Khazakstan and Turkmenistan. This is the kind of album you don´t want to write about to describe, but rather just send everybody you know a copy. All the best, Stephen Björn Olsson, Inst. för idéhistoria, Umeå universitet 901 87 Umeå tel. 090-7867982 fax 143374 e-post: bjorn.olsson@idehist.umu.se - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Sternberg" Subject: Masada European Tour Dates Date: 26 Nov 2000 15:53:08 -0000 I am brand new to this list and wondering if anyone knows of Masada's itinerary for the next couple of weeks. I will be sticking here in Prague to see them opening the alternative festival (http://alternativa-festival.cz) on Monday the 27th, w/ Dave Douglass, Joey Baron and Greg Cohen. wondering what dates follow up this one, or must I inquire with the man myself. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain Subject: Joe McPhee/Dominic Duval Date: 26 Nov 2000 23:42:22 -0500 Hi, Sorry to bother the list, but I've looked all around without success for info on this recording, which I saw mentioned here a short while ago. Can someone please give me info about title, label, recording date, etc.? Thank you. --Mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: Joe McPhee/Dominic Duval Date: 26 Nov 2000 22:20:47 -0800 THE DREAM BOOK Cadence Jazz Records CJR1105 http://www.allaboutjazz.com/REVIEWS/R1199_162.HTM By Derek Taylor Unlike Ellington celebrations, tributes to Ornette Coleman are a relative rarity. The disparity is interesting considering that many in creative improvised music circles regard Coleman=92s radical innovations as of par= allel importance to those of the Duke. McPhee and Duval go a long way towards rectifying this gap on this disc. Recorded live at the Knitting Factory during a series of concerts McPhee was commissioned to perform, each of t= he pieces in this concert is dedicated to individual members of Coleman=92s = small combos. The opening =93Dance of the Reasons Why,=94 the longest of the tu= nes, is for Dewey Redman. McPhee=92s curvaceous improvisations on alto recall the= dry, dulcet tone of the tenorman with supernatural accuracy. On =93Beyond the Truth/Lies,=94 a piece for Charlie Haden, Duval=92s improvisations on Hut= chins bass, a smaller, specially constructed variant of the double bass which a emits a resounding string sound just below the cello range, are positivel= y ear-bending. He crafts a delicate pizzicato solo that perfectly echoes Ha= den =92s legendary corpulence on the strings and McPhee=92s dance with the me= lody, again on alto, is no less breathtaking in its brilliance. McPhee swaps sax for trumpet on =93Moffet=92s Motif=94 slurring rueful ph= rases while Duval generates percussive patters on the wooden body of his bass. =93Old Eyes=94 salutes the Coleman himself in an opening alto solo that b= rings tears to the eyes with its blatant beauty. =93Caught In the Moment,=94 wh= ich is for David Izenzon, is curious in that Duval sticks to pizzicato, avoiding his bow and the arco technique for which Izenzon was so renowned. The bassist unsheathes his bow briefly on =93And Then Red,=94 for Scott LaFar= o, a tune is steeped with tactile melancholy. The concluding =93Celebration=94 celebrates Don Cherry in a solo coda for pocket trumpet. McPhee=92s lucen= t lines on the brass instrument that Cherry first made his leaps forward on= in Coleman=92s original quartet make for a fitting end to this priceless dis= c. In his liners McPhee makes the point that so often tributes are made after their recipient has passed. Taking the lead he shows us that rather than waiting for their absence, we should honor such mentors with thanks while they are still among us. Personnel: Joe McPhee- alto saxophone, pocket trumpet, Dominic Duval- Hutchins bass. Track Listing: Dance of the Reasons Why, Beyond the Truth/Lies, Moffet=92= s Motif, Old Eyes, Caught in the Moment, And Then Red, Celebration. Recorded: August 27, 1998, The Knitting Factory, New York City, NY. Available through Cadence/NorthCountry Distributors www.cadencebuilding.com ) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: XRedbirdxx@aol.com Subject: TIME-OUT! Date: 27 Nov 2000 02:26:05 EST hi, does anyone else feel swamped by the z-list? i don't post often, but value it as an erudite informational source. but i'm a busy guy, and i just cannot keep up with the emails (digest of course); i'm just finishing october! i BEG the following: update the FAQ, so less of the same-old often-seen questions. dont use the list because you're too lazy to get on the net and find the email for nonesuch, and such. always keep the subject line specific. this is an issue when a topic wanders off into a different or more specific direction (i.e. tonic deconstructionism shows leading to laswell reccs, but the subject line remained the same throughout). PLEASE and THANK YOU! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fag music" Subject: Bootsy's boots Date: 27 Nov 2000 01:38:18 -0800 Hey, dudes.Just came by to say that some of you would like to give a shot to Zillatron's ''Lord of the harvest''.Why?Cause it's cool.And that's the deal.BUT,if we need something to keep it in the avant-garde,there you go...Bootsy Collin's on it.And I was just wondering...who plays with Bootsy on that Zillatron record?Looks like the guy who speaks on Buckethead's first track on Monsters and robots(''I can never stop working hard,blah blah) is on it.Any info?Also,fans of The Residents should check out Moog Cookbook,although it is way poppy...ah,what the hell. Collins, Bugg Lite http://e2893.37.com/Free-E-Card/ <--- You Have A Greeting :) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Theo Klaase Subject: Masada December 9th in New York... Date: 27 Nov 2000 04:11:10 -0800 (PST) Does anyone have the specific address for the venue of this show? I'm traveling from Florida and the address on the tickets doesn't show up on yahoo maps.com.... Does this venue have a web site? Any information is greatly appreciated... -Theo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: zxmqq16@student.uni-tuebingen.de Subject: ostertag and minton in souther germany Date: 27 Nov 2000 13:38:36 +0100 (MET) announcement of two OSTERTAG / MINTON gigs in southern Germany: Dec 3: ULM, at the ROXY Dec 4: TUEBINGEN, at SUDHAUS bjoern - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "dekater" Subject: Re: The Funnest Album of the Year Date: 27 Nov 2000 15:52:10 +0100 -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: dekater Aan: Hugo Linares Datum: zondag 26 november 2000 15:26 Onderwerp: Re: The Funnest Album of the Year > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >Van: Hugo Linares >Aan: Zorn-list ; Stephen Fruitman > >Datum: zondag 26 november 2000 3:55 >Onderwerp: RE: The Funnest Album of the Year > > >. >>For those who still haven't got it, don't miss Stian Carstensen's Farmers >>Market. >>It's pure bliss !! >> >>Later, >> >>Hugo Linares > > I fully agree! Does someone know more about Carstensen's recordings? Jan Luyben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain Subject: Re: TIME-OUT! Date: 27 Nov 2000 10:32:51 -0500 on 11/27/00 2:26 AM, XRedbirdxx@aol.com at XRedbirdxx@aol.com wrote: > hi, > > does anyone else feel swamped by the z-list? It's funny that you should ask this question after the Thanksgiving weekend, when the list has been unusually quiet. But no, most of the time I do not feel swamped by the list. > i don't post often, but value it > as an erudite informational source. but i'm a busy guy, and i just cannot > keep up with the emails (digest of course); i'm just finishing october! i BEG > the following: > > update the FAQ, so less of the same-old often-seen questions. Good suggestion. > > dont use the list because you're too lazy to get on the net and find the > email for nonesuch, and such. Good suggestion, but for whatever reason, sometimes people cannot find what they're looking for. Also, their may be newcomers to the net whose search capabilities are not well-developed. I don't find that we get so many posts like this, though. > > always keep the subject line specific. Mr. Redbird, your subject line on this message is one of the least specific that I have ever seen. --Mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marius Ergo" Subject: Re: The Funnest Album of the Year Date: 27 Nov 2000 16:47:21 +0100 > >>For those who still haven't got it, don't miss Stian Carstensen's >Farmers > >>Market. > >>It's pure bliss !! > >> > >>Later, > >> > >>Hugo Linares > > > > >I fully agree! Does someone know more about Carstensen's recordings? > >Jan Luyben Have you guys heard Carstensens guitar playing? It's totally amazing. He was originally a guitarist, but the guys in Farmers Market convinced him to take up his childhood instrument, accordion. Check out www.farmersmusic.com There is also a great interview with Stian on the equally great site jazzscene.no Here is the URL: http://jazzscene.no/jazz/index.html Check out the first Farmers Market release: Speed/Balkan/Boogie - Marius _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: The Funnest Album of the Year Date: 27 Nov 2000 10:48:14 -0500 I, too, would like to voice my thanks to Stephen for having called our attention to the Farmers Market release. For what it's worth, here's my little review, which ran in the November issue of Jazziz: Farmers Market 'Farmers Market' (Winter & Winter) Balkan-jazz crossover may be well-established by now, especially on this side of the Atlantic. But seemingly from out of nowhere comes the Finnish/Bulgarian quintet Farmers Market with a self-titled album that kicks the burgeoning genre sideways a notch or three. The album's first two tunes are fairly respectful of Bulgarian tradition, the second a feature for a quartet of guest vocalists who sing in a style made familiar by Les Mystere des Voix Bulgares. Not until the third track, "Graovo Dance," is there any indication of the album's subsersive bent, as growling electric guitar notes lead into a funky drum'n'bass-influenced groove and a thumping bassline, while folkish flutes twitter above and tablas burble below. From there, it's anything goes. "Les Paul, More John" sets a Beatles-esque bassline in 9/8 under guitar solos evoking Nashville one moment, psychedelia the next. "Some Fag Rag" uses ragtimey piano and banjo to bite Spike Jones, Frank Zappa, and Glenn Miller is the space of three-and-a-half minutes. "Jog Trot" edges into Laswell territory with dubby bass and tabla, while "The Straight One" tucks in a bit of King Sunny Ade's juju magic. Nearly indescribable, and packaged with the arthouse chic customary of Winter & Winter, 'Farmers Market' is one of the most unexpected delights of the year. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Cuong Vu, "Vina, All Grown Up," 'Pure' (Knitting Factory) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marius Ergo" Subject: Re: The Funnest Album of the Year Date: 27 Nov 2000 17:51:11 +0100 But seemingly from out of nowhere comes the >Finnish/Bulgarian quintet Farmers Market with a self-titled album that >kicks >the burgeoning genre sideways a notch or three. > Farmers Market are not from Finland, but from Norway, with the exception of alto saxophonist Trifon Trifonov, who is from Bulgaria. - Marius _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: The Funnest Album of the Year Date: 27 Nov 2000 11:53:42 -0500 Marius Ergo wrote: > But seemingly from out of nowhere comes the > >Finnish/Bulgarian quintet Farmers Market with a self-titled album that > >kicks > >the burgeoning genre sideways a notch or three. > > > > Farmers Market are not from Finland, but from Norway, with the exception of > alto saxophonist Trifon Trifonov, who is from Bulgaria. Yup, so I've discovered since. My bad. Shame the editor didn't catch it either... SS - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: new Incus releases Date: 27 Nov 2000 12:26:03 EST from www.incusrecords.force9.co.uk: AVAILABLE FROM 1st December 2000 INCUS CD 39 Joseph Holbrooke '98 Derek Bailey guitar=A0=A0=A0 Gavin Bryars bass=A0=A0=A0 Tony Oxley drums First performance together since 1966 Recorded in the Stadgarten Cologne October 1998 =A0 INCUS CD 40 SONGS VOICE KEIJI HAINO GUITAR DEREK BAILEY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: new Incus releases Date: 27 Nov 2000 12:32:17 -0500 Wow. Hey, Santa, could I have a word with you... ;-) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Cuong Vu, "I Shall Never Come Back," 'Pure' (Knitting Factory) JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > from www.incusrecords.force9.co.uk: > > AVAILABLE FROM 1st December 2000 > > INCUS CD 39 > > Joseph Holbrooke '98 > > Derek Bailey guitar=A0=A0=A0 Gavin Bryars bass=A0=A0=A0 Tony Oxley drum= s > > First performance together since 1966 > > Recorded in the Stadgarten Cologne October 1998 > > =A0 > INCUS CD 40 > > SONGS > > VOICE KEIJI HAINO > GUITAR DEREK BAILEY > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: new Incus releases Date: 27 Nov 2000 12:44:37 -0500 >Joseph Holbrooke '98 I saw a listing from the Cortical Foundation for two Joseph Holbrooke albums with no further info. Anybody know anything about those? Lang - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: The Funnest Album of the Year Date: 27 Nov 2000 13:19:19 EST In a message dated 11/27/00 11:52:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, mariusergo@hotmail.com writes: << But seemingly from out of nowhere comes the >Finnish/Bulgarian quintet Farmers Market with a self-titled album that >kicks >the burgeoning genre sideways a notch or three. > Farmers Market are not from Finland, but from Norway, with the exception of alto saxophonist Trifon Trifonov, who is from Bulgaria. - Marius >> I cannot find this album for sale anywhere online! Help?! Tom - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Berube" Subject: RE: The Funnest Album of the Year Date: 27 Nov 2000 10:24:03 -0800 amazon.com has it - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: The Funnest Album of the Year Date: 27 Nov 2000 13:33:51 -0500 Samerivertwice@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/27/00 11:52:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, > mariusergo@hotmail.com writes: > > << But seemingly from out of nowhere comes the > >Finnish/Bulgarian quintet Farmers Market with a self-titled album that > >kicks > >the burgeoning genre sideways a notch or three. > > > > Farmers Market are not from Finland, but from Norway, with the exception of > alto saxophonist Trifon Trifonov, who is from Bulgaria. > > - Marius >> > > I cannot find this album for sale anywhere online! Everyone seems to be listing it under Stian Carstensen's name. Amazon has it for $13.99: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004RGPN/qid=975349431/sr=1-/102-6642104-8233754 (I notice that they've reprinted my review, confusion about Scandinavian countries intact...) :-P CDNow has it for $13.99 as well: http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=451118797/pagename=/RP/CDN/FIND/album.html/artistid=CARSTENSEN*STIAN/itemid=1212693 And Barnes & Noble has it uncompetitively priced at $18.98: http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/product.asp?userid=2N9NRMFG6N&ean=25091005628 Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - tinkling '70s AOR ballad keyboards from the apartment downstairs... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tom=20Z=E9/Ennio=20Morricone?= Date: 27 Nov 2000 13:36:58 EST I thought some people might be interested to know that Tom Z=E9's seventies=20 work has finally been reissued on 2 twofer CDs. these 4 records are where=20 almost the whole Luaka Bop compilation was compiled from. I haven't heard=20 them yet, but my copies just arrived, and I'm excited about it. Dusty Groove= =20 (www.dustygroove.com) is stocking them. the other CD I got from DG is my favorite Ennio Morricone record, Gli Occhi=20 Freddi Della Paura, performed by the Gruppo di Improvvisazione Nuova=20 Consonanza. this was available on a twofer CD, but this version has 20 extra= =20 minutes of material. it's on LP and CD. Dusty Groove's prices are really great also, pretty much across the board.=20 definitely worth a few minutes of your browsing time. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer Subject: Review: Haino + Coa Date: 27 Nov 2000 14:52:16 -0500 Hey folks on the Zorn-list, Here is a record review of the latest release by Keiji Haino: Keiji Haino & Coa Title: You should draw out the billion and first prayer Label: Horen -- Horen/Mimi-010 -- release date: October 25, 2000 stats: compact disc - 7 tracks - 44:30 minutes Coa is a duo of two Japanese women who are credited on this album as Eddie and Bill. Basically, they are a bass/drum rhythm section with a little vocals and keyboard thrown in. Coa released a collaborative track with Haino on the "Land of the Rising Noise, Volume 3" compilation, which was a rather underwhelming track of dense guitar/drums/bass. This new cd is a totally different creature. The cd features Haino on guitar, vocals, and cretan bulgari. (The cretan bulgari is a stringed instrument of Middle Eastern(?) origin, but it is different from the rudra vina that Haino has used on a couple previous albums.) The seven tracks explore a wide range of sounds. On the four tracks in which the cretan bulgari is played, the sound is mellow and vaguely reminiscent of the psychedelia found on, for example, Magical Power Mako's Hapmoniym 1. There is a guitar/drum/bass power track that brings Fushitsusha to mind. On all the tracks, Haino and Coa are playing around a melody and seem to be sticking pretty faithfully to it for the duration of the song. In a sense, I get the same feeling from this cd as from the Haino/Baron/Cohen cd, albeit with a less improvised feel. The trio tried to work within their capabilities, not trying to outreach the sky, and they arrived at a pretty successful and entertaining collaboration. For a Haino fan, this cd is worth getting purely for the chance to hear him playing a new instrument. But the thing is that Haino has placed the standard so high on some of his solo and Fushitsusha releases that it's hard to compare relatively short-term or one-off collaborations like this with the best of Haino's records. In short, for all it's good qualities, if you are expecting another Haino record so good that it defies belief, this one is not quite it. By the way, contact/catalog/ordering info for Horen records can be found at in the "labels" section of the Haino site at: http://www.planetc.com/users/keffer/haino/index.html . David K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: thymme jones Date: 27 Nov 2000 12:19:26 -0800 (PST) On a list rec, I ordered Thymme Jones' WHILE on Perdition Plastics. The wrong disc arrived in the mail, the solo album of songs, CAREER MOVE. I have not opened it because I have no idea what it sounds like. What _does_ it sound like, and what are Jones' other projects like? Thanks, ----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: Shot Maker Date: 27 Nov 2000 15:46:39 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0088_01C05889.3B294C60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If we're thinking of the same Shotmaker, they're a Canadian (I believe) = punk/hardcore band. I know very little about them, but my friend Vishal = likes them a lot. They have a recently released two-CD retrospective on = Troubleman Unlimited. -Jesse ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Me=20 To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2000 11:32 AM Subject: Shot Maker can anyone give me any insight on this group? thanks. ------=_NextPart_000_0088_01C05889.3B294C60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If we're thinking of the same Shotmaker, they're a = Canadian (I=20 believe) punk/hardcore band.  I know very little about them, but my = friend=20 Vishal likes them a lot.  They have a recently released two-CD=20 retrospective on Troubleman Unlimited.
 
-Jesse
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Me=20
Sent: Saturday, November 25, = 2000 11:32=20 AM
Subject: Shot Maker

can anyone give me any insight on = this=20 group?  thanks.
------=_NextPart_000_0088_01C05889.3B294C60-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: The Blue Notes Date: 27 Nov 2000 13:50:32 -0800 On Wed, 22 Nov 2000 21:01:12 -0500 Brian Olewnick wrote: > > While I also agree with Jon and others about "In the Townships", my > favorites along these lines are Louis Moholo's "Spirits Rejoice!" on ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Darn! Top of my reissue dream list. Fantastic to see Evan Parker in such a joyful context. His solo on "Kanya Apho Ukhona" gives me the goose flesh. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Eugene Chadbourne/NewCreativeMusic Date: 27 Nov 2000 14:53:20 -0800 Contents: ***************** This Saturday! Dec. 2, Eugene Chadbourne In Ventura, CA ***************** New Issue of NewCreativeMusic.com is now available. Featuring an interview with Eugene Chadbourne, reviews, editorials..... ***************** A big congratulations to NCM reviewer David Cotner... ***************** Ventura New Music Concert Series Dr. Eugene Chadbourne Solo Guitar and Banjo Saturday, December 2, 2000 Ventura City Hall, Ventura California 501 Poli Street 8 PM $10 Admission NO ADVANCE TICKET SALES. Tickets at the door only. Opening will be the Jeff Kaiser Quintet Jeff Kaiser, tpt and electronics Steuart Liebing, basses and electronics Woody Aplanalp, guitars and electronics Brad Dutz, percussion Richie West, drums ***************** The new issue of NCM is now available at http://www.newcreativemusic.com Featuring an extensive interview with Eugene Chadbourne by Keith McMulen, experimental music reviews by David Cotner and an editorial by Jeff Kaiser. ***************** David Cotner, the creator of the amazing "Actions" email concert and event listing, also runs a tremendous web site at http://www.hertz-lion.com/ which is THE source for experimental music links and more. Well, Hertz-Lion was listed in the October issue of "The Wire" as one of the 200 most important music web sites. Congratulations, David! ***************** Thanks, Jeff and Keith -- jeff@pfmentum.com keith@pfmentum.com http://www.pfmentum.com http://www.newcreativemusic.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Blechmann Subject: Re: e# syndaKit Date: 21 Nov 2000 18:40:21 +0100 Absolutely agreed. Great performance, great composition and great CD. Get it! PEACE Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.de zxmqq16> know what was going on lately. zxmqq16> anyways: i had the chance to play live with mr. elliot sharp one week ago zxmqq16> and have to say that it was a great musical and personal experience. here zxmqq16> in tuebingen, germany we performed his piece SyndaKit with a bunch of zxmqq16> local musicians. Great stuff!!! If you have the chance, everybody zxmqq16> interested in E#s work should try to get his/her hands on the limited to zxmqq16> 400 copies CD of the SyndaKit performance at the Knitting Factory. And zxmqq16> those of you being able to read music: Get the scores from his official zxmqq16> website, so that you have the chance to completely understand the idea zxmqq16> behind the piece. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Toula Ballas" Subject: various Date: 27 Nov 2000 21:26:19 -0500 Greetings, My name is Paul Fox and I am new to the list. I reside in Chicago. Here are a few updates from the windy city: 1) Jim O'rourke is in the studio with Stereolab working on their next release. Jim is also working with Jeff Tweedy and Glen Kotchke in some form or another. Jim says he is touring with Sonic Youth again this winter in Japan and South America. Lastly, Jim has started his new album yesterday. 2) Okka disk has sevearal releases coming out. All I know for sure is Joe McPhee is involved in one form or another. 3) The Outer Ear Festival took place the last two weeks and I caught the Jaap Blonk, Guillermo Gregorio and Michael Zerang evening at Loyola University. They each led different projects. Having never seen Jaap Blonk, I was freakin blown away. Syllabic A-Bombs were junkin up the place as this love letter tore me up. Guillermo Gregorio had three dudes working on building a simple table and having a very hard time. Complete with nails, electric drills and help from the audience, this table got built and everybody had a good time. Michael Zerang performed a puppet show to Buster Keaton films and the shear girth of Zerang detracted from the show. Just kidding, this was killer. Last night I saw Baritone Nation (James Carter, Alex Harding, Patience Higgins and Bluiett) with Kahil El Zabar kickin the beats. The charts completely sucked and so did most of the evening. The 20 minute encore of Sex Machine was nuts. James Carter... well, ate his saxophone and choked heavy much to my delight. Lastly, can someone recommend some Iranian musicians or recordings. Thanks, Paul - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: various Date: 27 Nov 2000 21:48:35 -0500 Toula Ballas wrote: > My name is Paul Fox and I am new to the list. Welcome to the list, Paul. > 2) Okka disk has sevearal releases coming out. All I know for sure is Joe > McPhee is involved in one form or another. According to Bruno Johnson, who runs Okka, 'Emancipation Proclamation,' a disc of mighty duets between Joe and Hamid Drake, should be out literally any day now. It was recorded at the Empty Bottle on June 25, 1999, and features Joe on tenor sax and pocket trumpet. I've had this on CD-R for a few months and it's a killer. Joe will have another disc on Okka next spring: tenor saxophone duets with Evan Parker. Joe can't say enough about this one - he says that the two of them were extremely mindful of the Chicago tenor tradition, and he himself was also deeply inspired by Parker's solo tenor disc on Okka. This one I've not heard, but the little hairs in my ears are standing on end in anticipation. Also emanating from Chicago in February, courtesy of Atavistic's Unheard Music series, is the reissue of McPhee's 3rd CJR release, 'Trinity,' a trio date featuring pianist Mike Kull and drummer Harold E. Smith. This one should be eagerly awaited, as Joe considers it the first major stylistic turning point in his career. Other news on the McPhee front: Mat Maneri is planning to self-release a quintet session in the spring, featuring McPhee on tenor, Mat on violin and viola, Joe Maneri on piano, and I believe Ed Schuller on bass and Randy Peterson on drums. Look for 'Specific Gravity,' a disc of McPhee duets with reedman Joe Giardullo on the Boxholder label in the summer of 2001. This one was recorded live at WPKN-FM in Bridgeport, CT on September 7, 1997. And that's just the tip of the iceberg in the Joe McPhee World Domination Campaign. There's still more where all that came from. Check out http://users.rcn.com/eye/joe3.html for a full discography including upcoming releases. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Other Dimensions in Music, "Steve's Festive Visions Revisited," 'Now!' (AUM Fidelity) (and quite obviously hip-deep in researching and preparing a Joe McPhee feature for the February issue of Jazziz...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: various Date: 27 Nov 2000 21:38:21 -0500 Toula Ballas wrote: > 2) Okka disk has sevearal releases coming out. All I know for sure is Joe > McPhee is involved in one form or another. There's a duo with Evan Parker that was recorded around a year ago that's due out. > Lastly, can someone recommend some Iranian musicians or recordings. "Iran: Persian Classical Music" on Nonesuch, with Faramarz Payvar & Ensemble is a personal favorite of mine. Brian Olewnick NP: Matty Ostrowski - Vertebra - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Risser Family" Subject: Re: thymme jones Date: 28 Nov 2000 01:13:45 -0500 I gotta say, I think it sucked, but that's just me. It's recordings of him at a piano. To me, it sounded like he was just making stuff up while he sat there. Very "introspective", by which I mean juvenile, self-absorbed palp. A Palace Brothers wannabe. But again, that's just me. What do other people think? peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20Tom=20Z=E9/Ennio=20Morricone?= Date: 28 Nov 2000 02:53:03 EST --part1_55.dd797f7.2754be5f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/27/00 1:37:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, JonAbbey2@aol.com writes: > Dusty Groove's prices are really great also, pretty much across the board. > definitely worth a few minutes of your browsing time. > Dusty Groove is a home wrecker, I tell you! It is a place where money is spent that should go to paying food and light bills!! Evil and temptation lurks there, good people...you have been warned!!! ;-) -- =dg= (one who has spent way too much money there on too many occasions...) --part1_55.dd797f7.2754be5f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/27/00 1:37:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
JonAbbey2@aol.com writes:


Dusty Groove's prices are really great also, pretty much across the board.
definitely worth a few minutes of your browsing time.


Dusty Groove is a home wrecker, I tell you!  It is a place where money is
spent that should go to paying food and light bills!!  Evil and temptation
lurks there, good people...you have been warned!!!

;-)

--
=dg=  (one who has spent way too much money there on too many occasions...) --part1_55.dd797f7.2754be5f_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Sussan Deyhim Date: 28 Nov 2000 11:39:21 +0100 >From: "Toula Ballas" > >Lastly, can someone recommend some Iranian musicians or recordings. I would recommend Sussan Deyhim. She is living in New York now and is a fantastic singer. She performed/recorded with Bill Laswell, Christian Marclay, Hector Zazou, Arto Lindsay, Frank Schulte, Lesli Dalaba, Hal Willner... Her iranian background is still present but it goes beyond. Her actual CD Madman Of God from this year is interesting. Andreas _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CuneiWay@aol.com Subject: Amazon's obnoxious pricing Date: 28 Nov 2000 08:36:43 EST Steve wrote: >Everyone seems to be listing it under Stian Carstensen's name. >Amazon has it for $13.99: >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004RGPN/qid=975349431/sr=1-/102-664 2104-8233754 Hmmm. I've read a few articles about Amazon having different pricing for different tiers of customers. Here's what *I* got when I went to see what Steve had to say about the CD: Farmers Market Stian Carstensen List Price: $17.97 Our Price: $15.99 You Save: $1.98 (11%) So, they are offering it to one Steve for $2.00 less than they are offering it to a different Steve. VERY nice of them. Jeezus, that sucks. Please don't *anybody* try & justify this little bit of insanely off-putting capitalism.... Steve F. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: zxmqq16@student.uni-tuebingen.de Subject: Re: Amazon's obnoxious pricing Date: 28 Nov 2000 14:48:42 +0100 (MET) > >Everyone seems to be listing it under Stian Carstensen's name. > >Amazon has it for $13.99: > >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004RGPN/qid=975349431/sr=1-/102-664 > > 2104-8233754 > > Hmmm. I've read a few articles about Amazon having different pricing for > different tiers of customers. > > Here's what *I* got when I went to see what Steve had to say about the CD: > Farmers Market > Stian Carstensen > List Price: > $17.97 > Our Price: > $15.99 > You Save: > $1.98 (11%) for me it is definitely 15.99$. so steve #1 could clarify if 13.99 was just a typo maybe.... bjoern - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: tzadik grist Date: 28 Nov 2000 11:50:21 -0500 (ATTN: Book, Entertainment editors) 100 of Rock's Chosen People By Geoff Boucher (c) 2000, Los Angeles Times Guy Oseary is known as the Maverick Records music executive who inked Alanis Morissette, the Deftones and Prodigy, but a decade ago he was a teen-ager eager to turn his love of rock into a career. He was bold, so it's no surprise that one night he blithely approached former Clash member Mick Jones at a Park Plaza Hotel party in Los Angeles. The question the young Oseary asked the punk-rock hero, however, was a bit odd. "I said, 'I always heard that someone in the Clash was Jewish, is that true?"' Oseary recalled. "And he said, 'Just me."' Oseary was thrilled with the answer. Born in Jerusalem, he loved finding common ground between his heritage and rock music. That concept has prompted him to author a quirky book (arriving just in time for Hanukkah) titled "Jews Who Rock" (St. Martin's Griffin Press, $12.95). From Herb Alpert and Bob Dylan to Robbie Robertson and Warren Zevon, "Jews Who Rock" gives snapshot sketches of 100 chosen people of pop music. Which Jew rocks the best? "Bob Dylan is the Jew of all time," Oseary says. And the most surprising? "Beck. Most people are blown away by the fact that Beck is Jewish ... and Billy Joel. I didn't know he was Jewish." Other potential surprises: rocker Mark Knopfler, the late Mama Cass Elliot, one- half of KISS (Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley) and Slash of Guns 'N Roses. Readers of the book also learn that Rush's Geddy Lee was born Gary Lee Weinrib-the "Geddy" comes from the way his Yiddish-speaking grandmother pronounced "Gary." The 108-page soft-cover might be lightweight in its rock scholarship - Oseary notes with a sigh that he's getting complaints about wrong birth dates and other biographical data - but he is mulling future editions. Turns out Chris Robinson of Black Crowes, Gavin Rossdale of Bush and Jason Kay of Jamiroquai were among those who were, uh, passed over. "I keep getting calls," Oseary says, "and they say, 'Why wasn't I in your book? I rock. And I'm Jewish."' - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stefan Verstraeten" Subject: new derek bailey releases Date: 28 Nov 2000 18:01:11 +0100 Hi, Sorry of this is old news, but I am a little behind reading zorn-list-digests. I just received two new cds by Derek Bailey. Sorry, they just popped in, so it is too early to write something about them allready. Anyway, the newbies are: -Joseph Holbrooke 98 - Live at Stadgarten Cologne October 1998 (Incus39) -Derek Bailey and Keiji Haino (voice) (Incus40) The cheapest way to order them (at least for europeans) is directly from Derek himself-INCUS. They cost 12 pounds including p&p to your door. Email: 113426.2337@compuserve.com or check http://www.incusrecords.force9.co.uk Oh yes, the paractile cd String Theory (feedback) can also be delivered through INCUS at the same price. Best wishes Stefan Verstraeten stefan.annik@planetinternet.be NP A new cassette-letter by Derek Bailey..... I just love how he combines humour with free music - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: tzadik grist Date: 28 Nov 2000 12:14:53 -0500 That's great! Though I don't know if I can deal with the Black Crowes guy being Jewish. . . Thanks, Kurt. -Jesse ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 11:50 AM > > (ATTN: Book, Entertainment editors) > 100 of Rock's Chosen People > By Geoff Boucher > (c) 2000, Los Angeles Times > Guy Oseary is known as the Maverick Records music executive who inked Alanis > Morissette, the Deftones and Prodigy, but a decade ago he was a teen-ager eager > to turn his love of rock into a career. He was bold, so it's no surprise that > one night he blithely approached former Clash member Mick Jones at a Park Plaza > Hotel party in Los Angeles. > The question the young Oseary asked the punk-rock hero, however, was a bit odd. > "I said, 'I always heard that someone in the Clash was Jewish, is that true?"' > Oseary recalled. "And he said, 'Just me."' > Oseary was thrilled with the answer. Born in Jerusalem, he loved finding common > ground between his heritage and rock music. That concept has prompted him to > author a quirky book (arriving just in time for Hanukkah) titled "Jews Who Rock" > (St. Martin's Griffin Press, $12.95). > >From Herb Alpert and Bob Dylan to Robbie Robertson and Warren Zevon, "Jews Who > Rock" gives snapshot sketches of 100 chosen people of pop music. > Which Jew rocks the best? "Bob Dylan is the Jew of all time," Oseary says. And > the most surprising? "Beck. Most people are blown away by the fact that Beck is > Jewish ... and Billy Joel. I didn't know he was Jewish." > Other potential surprises: rocker Mark Knopfler, the late Mama Cass Elliot, one- > half of KISS (Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley) and Slash of Guns 'N Roses. Readers > of the book also learn that Rush's Geddy Lee was born Gary Lee Weinrib-the > "Geddy" comes from the way his Yiddish-speaking grandmother pronounced "Gary." > The 108-page soft-cover might be lightweight in its rock scholarship - Oseary > notes with a sigh that he's getting complaints about wrong birth dates and other > biographical data - but he is mulling future editions. Turns out Chris Robinson > of Black Crowes, Gavin Rossdale of Bush and Jason Kay of Jamiroquai were among > those who were, uh, passed over. > "I keep getting calls," Oseary says, "and they say, 'Why wasn't I in your book? > I rock. And I'm Jewish."' > > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Laferty Subject: Call for articles Date: 28 Nov 2000 12:17:33 -0500 Please feel free to query article ideas for the upcoming issue of to the QUICK. I KNOW that this group of people have good ideas. I'll be happy to discuss the journal/magazine, if anyone's interested. Sorry for not sending a personal email to everybody. Best, Matt Laferty, to the QUICK editorial board CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS* (Please forward to interested parties) to the QUICK #5 the journal magazine of media and cultural studies at Binghamton University ---Deadline MARCH 15, 2001 Issue Theme: "Sound-Medium-Music" Who says "academic" writing can't be exciting? to the QUICK is accepting article proposals and completed manuscripts for a special theme issue. We are *ALSO* accepting non-thematic submissions for this issue. Our general submission guidelines follows immediately after this theme information: This theme issue is particularly interested in the fragments of sound/recording/distribution/aural performance culture that fall outside the world of corporate-controlled aesthetics and pre-packaged pop, but we will consider all innovative analyses. Possible topics include: found recordings in attics and flea markets, the world of record collectors, field recordings/native plunder, the ethics of bootlegging, homemade albums, "unlistenable" music, shareware mixing programs, MP3's -- as well as other sound issues-- such as the infamous record of the Jonestown suicides, issues of broadcasting and airwave control (the current Micro-FM station debates), Democracy Now!" and Pacifica radio, phony genres/plantation radio, the consolidation of the record companies/price fixing, soccer/athletic chants, analyses of specific instruments (archaic instruments), the sociopolitics of wire-tapping, the physics of the turntable and sonic deconstruction, spoken word and "dub" poetry, national anthems and the performance of occasional songs, (online) speech archives, the African Orthodox Church of St. John Coltrane in San Francisco, cut-up sound experiments, answering machines/voice mail, audio museum tours, books on tape, James Earl Jones/corporate voices, new age ocean/whalesong/forest records, talking computers/greeting cards/voice record photo albums/pull-cord toys, and much more... to the QUICK is open to all disciplines and perspectives. Submissions might consider the connections between sound and culture and think about the historical, economic, aesthetic, and/or political implications of these connections. The scope of this project is wide, covering everything from car horns to Yoko Ono to radio waves from outer space--but we are NOT looking for record reviews! Additionally, TTQ will compile sound and music to accompany this issue on CD and the web. If you are a performing musician, archivist, or collector who has access to relevant sound recordings, please contact us for sound submission procedures. Essays submitted with sounds should be written in a context that does not depend upon the sounds being heard by the reader. Note: March 15 is the final submission deadline, query well in advance. Electronic queries and submissions preferred -- *queries* in body of email -- *submissions* as word/worperfect/rtf attachment. Direct to: Davis Schneiderman Submissions Editor to the QUICK or via snail mail at: to the QUICK English Department PO Box 6000 Binghamton University Binghamton, New York 13902 **to the QUICK's general submission guidelines follow, which also explain the journal magazine's approach and style: SUBMISSION GUIDELINES: Who says "academic" writing can't be exciting? CONTENT. We want essays, articles, and columns (or proposals outlining such projects) that perform thematic, theoretical, and cultural analyses of media arts like TV shows, films, music, or cultural movements and issues as diverse as you can possibly imagine. These media forms have in the past been dismissed as unimportant cultural markers when measured against the mass of "literary" studies. to the QUICK continues the work of media literacy and cultural studies programs by drawing attention to the meaning existent in all discussions and arts. We also take the notion of "interdisciplinary" to heart, believing that each discipline is another way of reading the world and yet is part of a very similar critical attitude. to the QUICK therefore takes the stance that writing across disciplines-through carefully contextualized writing-can say informative and fascinating things even to readers outside of that field. STYLE. If not already implicit, you should make clear how your analysis is culturally relevant, what issues your reading is bringing up. The less the subject is popular or well-known, the greater the need to point out this cultural relevancy rather than relying on the weight of a theoretical framework. It is not necessary that essays implement critical theory. However, theory is a way of reading the world and can be useful and exciting. Essays should still avoid one of the pitfalls of academic writing: the dropping of esoteric terms or phrases without context. Careful emphasis should be placed on the relevancy of allusions and terminology; the reader should not have to wallow through a dense litter of meaningless prose. QUICKTIPS. * Be sure to describe the subject in such a way that the reader does not have to know the subject in order to appreciate your point. Present your context! * TTQ does not publish film or music reviews. * If your essay exceeds our word limit, please "cut" it yourself! SUBMIT. Essays and articles: 4500 words maximum Columns: 500 - 4000 words Book reviews: 500 - 1000 words Deadline: TTQ does read unsolicited submissions but encourages short queries. Query for book reviews. You may send in submissions at any time, but submissions received after each semester's deadline will be held until the next semester. Fall deadline: October 15. Spring deadline: March 15. Indicate word count for all text w/endnotes. Please observe Chicago Manual Style and put all parenthetical information into endnotes, with no Works Cited. If you have access to and permission for related photos or images, please indicate. Your article will be given a careful peer-review. We are also interested in reprinting pieces published elsewhere. TTQ needs pieces for our columns: The Obligatory Old Book Review takes an "old" book, author, or theorist and presents an original argument as to its contemporary relevance; The Rewrite Department uses experimental non-fiction to comment on contemporary cultural issues; and Slipstream picks out an event of cultural significance from the contributor's life, describing and analyzing it in a memoir-like, creative style. For examples of these, peruse our journal magazine on-line at www.agoron.com/~matthewk/quick. The web site also contains a variety of other useful tips and information. For examples of these articles, subscription, and desk copy information, peruse our journal magazine on-line at www.agoron.com/~matthewk/quick. Electronic submissions are preferred in RTF, Word, or WordPerfect format but you may also mail manuscripts to: to the QUICK English Department PO Box 6000 Binghamton University Binghamton, New York 13902 Include a SASE or email address for reply. to the QUICK takes FNA print and electronic rights. (You can receive the latest contributor's info automatically by joining the TTQ announcement list. Send an email to listserv@listserv.binghamton.edu with a message in the email (not the subject line) saying SUBSCRIBE TTQ FIRSTNAME LASTNAME where "FIRSTNAME" and "LASTNAME" are replaced by your first and last names.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: Amazon's obnoxious pricing Date: 28 Nov 2000 09:24:57 -0800 http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2626344,00.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rob, the Belgian Guy" Subject: Zorn ends Masada Date: 28 Nov 2000 18:50:15 +0800 Zorn-agains, Sunday night Masada played what appears to be one of the last Masada concerts. A thought that makes me, and hopefully many more, mourn. Once again they performed brilliantly. They played Lilin which I only knew from the Bar Kokhba sextet. Rob@llaert.NU "The goal is to bring the same intensity to listening as the performer to playing." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joeseph Simon" Subject: RE: Zorn ends Masada Date: 28 Nov 2000 12:58:28 -0800 What caused you to think that this might be the last Masada concert? Was something said? Joeseph "The goal is to bring the same intensity to listening as the performer to playing." - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DRoyko@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn ends Masada Date: 28 Nov 2000 12:56:22 EST How do you mean "what appears"? Did he say something to that effect from the stage? I'd like to assume he'll be honoring already-scheduled gigs, since I'm planning on driving up to Minneapolis in April to see them. Dave Royko << Zorn-agains, Sunday night Masada played what appears to be one of the last Masada concerts. A thought that makes me, and hopefully many more, mourn. Once again they performed brilliantly. They played Lilin which I only knew from the Bar Kokhba sextet. Rob@llaert.NU "The goal is to bring the same intensity to listening as the performer to playing." - >> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Amazon's obnoxious pricing Date: 28 Nov 2000 13:09:08 -0500 CuneiWay@aol.com wrote: > Steve wrote: > > >Everyone seems to be listing it under Stian Carstensen's name. > >Amazon has it for $13.99: > >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004RGPN/qid=975349431/sr=1-/102-664 > > 2104-8233754 > > Hmmm. I've read a few articles about Amazon having different pricing for > different tiers of customers. > > Here's what *I* got when I went to see what Steve had to say about the CD: > Farmers Market > Stian Carstensen > List Price: > $17.97 > Our Price: > $15.99 > You Save: > $1.98 (11%) > > So, they are offering it to one Steve for $2.00 less than they are offering > it to a different Steve. You know, now that I look again, it does say $15.99. So either I originally caught the tail end of a sale, or, more likely, I just misread the price yesterday. I've never seen any of the articles you mention, Steve, but I wouldn't dispute what you're saying. (Are there any such articles online? I'm really curious now...) Anyway, I wondered if perhaps my computer had some sort of Amazon cookie that resulted in a lower price scheme, so I logged off and then checked again, and again I got $15.99. Just thought I should verify that. My apologies if it was indeed an error in reading on my part. Seems like a good reason to shop at CDNow or elsewhere, anyway. And Barnes & Noble seems worth avoiding altogether now. Tom, if my pointer cost you an extra $2, drop me a line and I'll mail you the difference! Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Amazon's obnoxious pricing Date: 28 Nov 2000 13:16:17 -0500 s~Z wrote: > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2626344,00.html > Wow. Thanks, Keith. Now that really DOES make me wonder... I was certain that I saw $13.99 yesterday. Then I followed my very own link, as quoted in Steve's message and got $15.99. And I did not "flush my cache" before relaunching and trying again, also resulting in $15.99. Now that's truly weird and more than a little suspect. Note that I've never, ever bought anything from Amazon. And now I suppose I never shall. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams Subject: Re: Amazon's obnoxious pricing Date: 28 Nov 2000 12:09:39 -0500 >Steve wrote: > >>Everyone seems to be listing it under Stian Carstensen's name. >>Amazon has it for $13.99: >>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004RGPN/qid=975349431/sr=1-/102-664 > >2104-8233754 > >Hmmm. I've read a few articles about Amazon having different pricing for >different tiers of customers. > >Here's what *I* got when I went to see what Steve had to say about the CD: >Farmers Market >Stian Carstensen >List Price: >$17.97 >Our Price: >$15.99 >You Save: $1.98 (11%) >So, they are offering it to one Steve for $2.00 less than they are offering >it to a different Steve. > >VERY nice of them. Jeezus, that sucks. Please don't *anybody* try & justify >this little bit of insanely off-putting capitalism.... Gee, Now I feel "special". The gods of Amazon have deigned to only charge me 13.99. But seriously, I've seen this stuff in action before, and its become increasingly popular with web-store designers. If you have ever "registered" with one of these sites, they have the ability to show you a completely different database of products, OR the same products at different prices. Once your web browser accepts their cookie, you have been cataloged, ranked, indexed, and numbered(apologies to Patrick McGoohan) Rich - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mwoodwor Subject: ennio morricone plus tidbits Date: 28 Nov 2000 15:00:43 -0400 Hi everyone - I'm fairly new to the list so forgive me if this has already been discussed at length - I recently purchaed ennio morricone's "western quintet" and LOVE it, I also own "mondo morricone" and the soundtracks to Once upon a time in the west and fistful and for a few dollars more (all three are on one CD). Where should I head next? What other morricone releases do people on the list have that are so good that it makes them want to puke?!? BTW1 thanks to the people who rec. William Gaddis - The recognitions to read, it is an excellent book (anything that combines a monkey, barn, and some sleigh-bells is top-notch in my books) BTW2 - movie rec. is Shindo's (the director) film from the mid sixties entitled "onibaba" about a couple of japanese peasant women, some armour, a man of questionable character, a weird mask, and a big hole (hard film to explain but watch it if you can) BTW3 - now listening to Dean Robert's - And the Black Moth Plays the Grand Cinema - Excellent release! Always happy to hear someone "covering" Brian Eno. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert Subject: Re: Zorn ends Masada Date: 28 Nov 2000 20:01:36 +0800 op 29-11-2000 01:56 schreef DRoyko@aol.com op DRoyko@aol.com: How do you mean "what appears"? Did he say something to that effect from the stage? I'd like to assume he'll be honoring already-scheduled gigs, since I'm planning on driving up to Minneapolis in April to see them. It said so in our local newspaper. I supposed they talked with Zorn himself to come to this conclusion. I'm sure they will finish their planned concerts. Rob@llaert.NU "The goal is to bring the same intensity to listening as the performer to playing." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: perdida Subject: Robbie Robertson? Date: 28 Nov 2000 13:55:27 -0500 Hi there! kurt gottschalk quoted from Oseary: > "Jews Who Rock" >(St. Martin's Griffin Press, $12.95). >From Herb Alpert and Bob Dylan to Robbie Robertson and Warren Zevon, >"Jews Who >Rock" gives snapshot sketches of 100 chosen people of pop music. I always thought Robbie Robertson was Native American. Is this the same guy ex The Band? With a now successful solo career, especially here in Canada? Hmmm, well I guess he could be both! Ms. M. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "ah, music....a magic beyond all we do here!" Albus Dumbledore in 'Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone' *********** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Re: Robbie Robertson? Date: 28 Nov 2000 15:19:39 +0000 Robbie Robertson's father was a Jewish gambler in Toronto. His mother is Mohawk from the Six Nations Reserve. James Hale perdida wrote: > Hi there! > > kurt gottschalk quoted from Oseary: > > > "Jews Who Rock" > >(St. Martin's Griffin Press, $12.95). > >From Herb Alpert and Bob Dylan to Robbie Robertson and Warren Zevon, > >"Jews Who > >Rock" gives snapshot sketches of 100 chosen people of pop music. > > I always thought Robbie Robertson was Native American. Is this the same > guy ex The Band? With a now successful solo career, especially here in > Canada? Hmmm, well I guess he could be both! > > Ms. M. > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > "ah, music....a magic beyond all we do here!" > > Albus Dumbledore in 'Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone' > > *********** > > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert A. Pleshar" Subject: Re: Robbie Robertson? Date: 28 Nov 2000 13:15:01 -0600 Which reminds me of the old vaudville joke about Native Americans being the lost tribe and one chief goes out on a buffalo hunt only to return empty handed exclaiming "I brought the milchig tomahawk!" Where is Zero Mostel when you need him? Ralph At 01:55 PM 11/28/00 -0500, perdida wrote: >I always thought Robbie Robertson was Native American. Is this the same >guy ex The Band? With a now successful solo career, especially here in >Canada? Hmmm, well I guess he could be both! >Ms. M. > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > "ah, music....a magic beyond all we do here!" > > Albus Dumbledore in 'Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone' > > *********** > > > > >- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Gannushkin Subject: Re[2]: Amazon's obnoxious pricing Date: 28 Nov 2000 14:17:32 -0500 Hello Steve, As I know Amazon was "experimenting" (they called it so) with prices for DVDs only. And they stopped and promised not to do it again. What we all see now seems like normal "on sale"/"not on sale" thing which is going on almost every on-line store. I wonder how didn't you notice that before. All on-line stores are changing prices for different groups of goods especially around holidays convincing customers to buy more and more. For example CDNOW is sending me spam e-mails about all their sales and discounts. Their new practice includes decreasing CD's price by $0.5 and calling this discount. The other thing that they are doing is that every now and then they are announcing sale of items you have on your wish list so everybody except you should pay more. My favorite Music Boulevard, which was eaten by CDNOW with its excellent Jazz Central Station web site, used to publish lists of $9.99 CDs which were changing all the time. So this is really common behavior of on-line stores. Tuesday, November 28, 2000, you wrote to me: SS> CuneiWay@aol.com wrote: >> Steve wrote: >> >> >Everyone seems to be listing it under Stian Carstensen's name. >> >Amazon has it for $13.99: >> >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004RGPN/qid=975349431/sr=1-/102-664 >> >> 2104-8233754 >> >> Hmmm. I've read a few articles about Amazon having different pricing for >> different tiers of customers. >> SS> My apologies if it was indeed an error in reading on my part. Seems like a good SS> reason to shop at CDNow or elsewhere, anyway. And Barnes & Noble seems worth SS> avoiding altogether now. -- Best regards, Peter Gannushkin e-mail: shkin@shkin.com URL: http://www.downtownmusic.net/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: new derek bailey releases Date: 28 Nov 2000 11:40:54 -0800 (PST) --- Stefan Verstraeten wrote: > NP A new cassette-letter by Derek Bailey..... Say what? What is this? ---s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Les Rhoda" Subject: Brahms/Ribot correction Date: 28 Nov 2000 19:52:33 -0000 >esteemed session >guitarist **Marc Ribot** (who appears on two tracks) and others. > >[asterisks added] > > >Apparently Ms. Brahms knew a bassist who had worked with Ribot and just >cold-called him for the session. I learned from a mutual friend last night that Darien Brahms actually met Ribot 6 years ago when she lived in NYC, trying to make it as a singer/songwriter. She came close, but wouldn't bend to the marketing mechanisms at the major labels, i.e. appear more like a tramp than a chanteuse, modify and pop-ify her music in accordance with the whims of public 'taste', etc. so she came back to Maine. (Pardon if this is too tangential, but I know there are a few New Englanders out there that can dig.) Les p.s. To those of you who have inquired about where to buy her cd go to http://www.w2.com/bad.html _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: Amazon's obnoxious pricing Date: 28 Nov 2000 11:55:28 -0800 I got $15.99 even when logging on after deleting the cookie. Once your web browser accepts their cookie, you have been cataloged, ranked, indexed, and numbered(apologies to Patrick McGoohan) Rich - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Brahms/Ribot correction Date: 28 Nov 2000 12:34:41 -0800 On Tue, 28 Nov 2000 19:52:33 -0000 "Les Rhoda" wrote: > > I learned from a mutual friend last night that Darien Brahms actually met > Ribot 6 years ago when she lived in NYC, trying to make it as a > singer/songwriter. She came close, but wouldn't bend to the marketing > mechanisms at the major labels, i.e. appear more like a tramp than a > chanteuse, modify and pop-ify her music in accordance with the whims of > public 'taste', etc. so she came back to Maine. (Pardon if this is too You know, there are plenty of artists in NYC who do not compromise. You don't have to go back to Maine to keep your virginal integrity... Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors Subject: zorn ends masada Date: 28 Nov 2000 13:53:54 -0800 (PST) there is a gig comming up for masada... JOHN ZORN'S MASADA [Quartet] - LAST GIG OF THE YEAR! At the Center For Jewish History, 15 W. 16th St., Manhattan NYC, on Sat. Dec.9th. Shows at 8 PM & 10 PM, $25 per set. Get your tickets now before the ads hit the papers 917-606-8200! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rob, the Belgian Guy" Subject: Masada in Paris Date: 28 Nov 2000 23:01:48 +0800 Can someone tell me exactly where Masada will play in Paris. Venue, Address, phone, etc ? thnx - rob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: zorn ends masada Date: 28 Nov 2000 14:10:28 -0800 On Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:53:54 -0800 (PST) jason tors wrote: > > JOHN ZORN'S MASADA [Quartet] - LAST GIG OF THE YEAR! At the Center ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ We already had a big fear last year with Masada's last gig of the century. If we are lucky we might even get, next year, twelve Masada's last gig of the month!!! Nice to know that there is a lot of room left for being challenged. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Knutboy@aol.com Subject: Re: Robbie Robertson? Date: 28 Nov 2000 18:27:27 EST --part1_5d.3e890e4.2755995f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robbies pops was a Jewish gangster, and his mother indeed indian. --part1_5d.3e890e4.2755995f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robbies pops was a Jewish gangster, and his mother indeed indian. --part1_5d.3e890e4.2755995f_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Berman" Subject: Iranian music (Re: various) Date: 29 Nov 2000 00:49:08 +0100 >>>>> "Brian" == Brian Olewnick writes: Brian> Toula Ballas wrote: [...] >> Lastly, can someone recommend some Iranian musicians or recordings. Brian> "Iran: Persian Classical Music" on Nonesuch, with Faramarz Payvar & Brian> Ensemble is a personal favorite of mine. I'd second this recommendation, though I have to say I'm not well-versed in Iranian music, having only two recordings. The other one, which I also like, is volume three of the five volume Radif series on the French al sur label, from 1994. Whereas the Nonesuch recording is fairly diverse, both in instrumentation and style, the al sur recording is part of an exhaustive documentation of the classical Persian melodic repertoire, performed on the setar (a four-stringed lute) by Dariush Tala'i. The CD booklet contains a fairly detailed explanation of the modal structure of the music. (I picked this CD up used and don't know if it's still in print.) --Steve Berman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Toula Ballas" Subject: Tiszji Munoz Date: 28 Nov 2000 20:16:22 -0500 Greetings, This has probably been brough up previously but I heard tell of a new Tiszji Munoz cd with Mark Dresser, Marilyn Crispell and Henry Kaiser as ensemble members. Any info on Tiszji would be appreciated as I am fast developing an interest. Thanks Paul NP: Music of Islam Volume 2 Music of the South Sinai Bedouins (Celestial Harmonies) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: Tiszji Munoz Date: 28 Nov 2000 20:24:01 -0500 on 00.11.28 20:16, Toula Ballas at toulab@msn.com wrote: > a new Tiszji Munoz cd with Mark Dresser, Marilyn Crispell > and Henry Kaiser as ensemble members. Any info on Tiszji would be > appreciated as I am fast developing an interest. Here's the session info. http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/CRISPELL.disc.html#00.03.18 Marilyn sayeth he's a maniac, a free spirit, a wild-man. This is the first I've heard of him. Apparently he's recorded in the Woodstock area before. That's about all I have... R ---------- Sessionographies: CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies: COURVOISIER; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN. --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things-- Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k UPDATE *June 25*, 2000: Vids, a few CDs, baseball books, misc. ***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Tiszji Munoz Date: 28 Nov 2000 20:37:31 -0500 Rick Lopez wrote: > on 00.11.28 20:16, Toula Ballas at toulab@msn.com wrote: > > > a new Tiszji Munoz cd with Mark Dresser, Marilyn Crispell > > and Henry Kaiser as ensemble members. Any info on Tiszji would be > > appreciated as I am fast developing an interest. > > Here's the session info. > > http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/CRISPELL.disc.html#00.03.18 > > Marilyn sayeth he's a maniac, a free spirit, a wild-man. This is the first > I've heard of him. Apparently he's recorded in the Woodstock area before. > > That's about all I have... Rick, you (and anyone else interested in more background on this artist) should proceed without delay to the article Kaiser wrote about Tisziji Munoz for Guitar Player in 1998: http://www.henrykaiser.net/suggests_munoz.html Additionally, Bruce Gallanter at Downtown Music Gallery is a HUGE fan and stocks all of the CDs. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: ennio morricone plus tidbits Date: 29 Nov 2000 12:50:09 +1100 > Hi everyone - I'm fairly new to the list so forgive me if this has already > been discussed at length - I recently purchaed ennio morricone's "western > quintet" and LOVE it, I also own "mondo morricone" and the soundtracks to Once > upon a time in the west and fistful and for a few dollars more (all three are > on one CD). Where should I head next? What other morricone releases do > people on the list have that are so good that it makes them want to puke?!? Two of my favourite soundtracks by Morricone are 'Once Upon A Time In America' and 'Bird With The Crystal Plumage'. The former is quite varied, including some of his greatest soundtrack melodies alongside some New Orleans-style jazz. The latter is one of his horror scores for Dario Argento films, and most of it is also available on the 'Dario Argento Trilogy' cd. The 'Fistful Of Film Music' compilation on Rhino is a very good collection also, and contains a much more original selection than is usually found on a Morricone 'best-of' - there are many great tunes on there that aren't so readily available elsewhere... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sinkas" Subject: Amazon et al Supporting your Local Record Store Date: 29 Nov 2000 11:45:03 +1030 Hi all, I was thinking that in light of the nature of this list, which i would = consider to some degree "outsider" music, why is it that people appear = happy to support these huge web based record stores. I think for the most part the people who may most benefit form them are = those, who like me live outside the USA, I am wondering if the prices = are really any cheaper to the US comapre's as opposed to them buying = form thier local record store. I am also refferring to the non-massive chain record stores. I really like it when I can but a record directly form the artist, or = from the label (web of Mimicry et al) as I feel there is alt least a = chance the artist will see some benifit. Sure beat going to Virgin only to be told "We dont carrry any Tzadik = recrds", hhmm, i think you mean you dant carry any MUSIC. Im boring myself=20 SO to sum up, are people here pro -local record store, or not? Case NP: Aussie Death Metal Masters Volume 2 "Alma Matters" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: supporting local indie shops Date: 29 Nov 2000 00:08:42 EST In a message dated 11/28/00 11:47:54 PM, you wrote: << SO to sum up, are people here pro -local record store, or not? >> hi crew, i make it my business to give my money to the mom n pop shops which support me with personal service, and love what theyre doing. this goes for buying milk as well as discs. i usually buy jazz/improv at my 'local' shop downtown music gallery because not only is the service excellent but, as you will find in many other small stores nationwide, they provide a sense of COMMUNITY; offer free instore gigs, musicians hang out and they shop and buy too. i like the sense of NEIGHBORHOOD. while i do also buy online, it's always from independent distributors or direct from labels or artists. and many are cheaper. mode records are cheaper direct from them than rom other sources. lots of avant-everything at anomalous.com, anything jazz improv or proggy at dtmgallery.com, a select bunch of ambient/noise/dark and general strangeness from vince at manifoldrecords.com. even online these places give personal service; manifold even accepts returns on discs you dont like if in fine condition and you contact vince within a few days. drowning in vinyl and silver and still giving thanks.... steve koenig n.p. nothing .... just the sound of the d train off in the distance - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: supporting local indie shops Date: 28 Nov 2000 23:42:37 -0500 If I lived somewhere with better local shops, I'd definitely use them. As it is, I get to Now Music and Fashion in Arlington when I can. And I don't know whether this counts as a local store per se, but the Tower Records in Fairfax, VA, has a well-stocked and displayed Free Improv section which I hit way too often :-) But the bulk of my purchases are online, from Downtown Music Gallery, Anomalous Records, and Forced Exposure. And, prompted by postings here (curse you, Red Baron), I just plunked down some bucks at www.dustygrooves.com . And when I hit Austin, I make sure to go into feeding frenzy at 33 Degrees. On Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 12:08:42AM -0500, Acousticlv@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 11/28/00 11:47:54 PM, you wrote: > << > SO to sum up, are people here pro -local record store, or not? > >> n.p. Rottor: (uh, I left the case in the car and don't recall the name, and don't feel like stopping it to look at the disc itself... but Julie Tippet is just amazing on this...) n.r. Keith Potter: Four Musical Minimalists -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: distribs Date: 29 Nov 2000 00:25:40 EST In a message dated 11/28/00 2:12:53 PM, you wrote: <> hi all, and seeing the above name reminds me i forgot to mention the other distributor i buy from who often has otherwise unfindable improv, and lots of great mexican proggies which i'd buy from him if i didnt spend more time in mexico d.f. than in nyc. glad i got the ltd ed (50) lol coxhill while it existed from wayside, and discovered the series of italian angelica festival discs, snippets and all. .....steve koenig..... n.p. pbs documentary on um khalthoum - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Risser Family" Subject: Re: Amazon et al Supporting your Local Record Store Date: 29 Nov 2000 00:29:08 -0500 > SO to sum up, are people here pro -local record store, or not? As far as I know, there is no record store here (Cincinnati, Ohio) that carries such things on a reliable basis. Internet ordering is generally the only way for me to get anything that isn't available at the local Sam Goody. Just ask my wife and mom who are currently scouring the internet trying to dig up a copy of Shots in the Dark, the Mancini tribute. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tosh Subject: Re: ennio morricone plus tidbits Date: 28 Nov 2000 21:49:06 -0800 I would also get 'More Mondo Morricone.' Those two collections are wonderful. And of course the Zorn recordings of Morricone's music > > - -- Tosh Berman TamTam Books http://www.tamtambooks.com > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Amazon et al Supporting your Local Record Store Date: 29 Nov 2000 01:13:31 -0500 sinkas wrote: > I was thinking that in light of the nature of this list, which i would consider to some degree "outsider" music, why is it that people appear happy to support these huge web based record stores. As often as not, it's because it's the only option available to many who don't live in "major markets." Even in the USA, such stores are not common. They depend upon a dedicated shop-owner (like DMG's Bruce Gallanter) and a steady and dependable clientele to assure their continued existence. In New York and Chicago and the Bay Area (and even Houston, TX, where I grew up), this isn't a problem. But you're not likely to find a mom'n'pop shop that carries such outsider music outside such major markets. (Steve Koenig provided a useful and interesting insight into the equivalent experience online in his subsequent post. It's now possible to do your online shopping at "indie stores" as well. I plan to take heed.) > I think for the most part the people who may most benefit form them are those, who like me live outside the USA, I am wondering if the prices are really any cheaper to the US comapre's as opposed to them buying form thier local record store. In many cases, the big net stores and the big chain "brick and mortar" stores (as real-world record stores are known in the music biz) can very easily underprice indie stores, since they're better able to cut deals with the record labels to lower the price they pay to keep merchandise in stock. The big guys "pass the savings along" to the consumer. For example, I recently paid $7.99 apiece for a pile of CDs by Charles Mingus, Joni Mitchell and the Grateful Dead during a sale at Tower Records. But recently, some of the larger web shops (Barnes & Noble in particular) have ceased offering the deep discounts, an accurate reflection of the relatively low sales generated online so far. Believe me, as a former record company drone, the online stores like BN and Amazon and CDNow sell FAR less than they want anyone to believe. And they've all at one time or another been on the brink of ruin as a result (although Amazon has been much smarter than the others at concealing this). > I really like it when I can but a record directly form the artist, or from the label (web of Mimicry et al) as I feel there is alt least a chance the artist will see some benifit. This is the best scenario, agreed. But it's not always available. And furthermore, if an artist is recording for an actual record label - major OR indie - as opposed to releasing discs him-or-herself, then this, too, is a factor in the bottom line. Only recently has it been possible for artists who sell CDs at shows to report their sales to Soundscan, the company that tabulates sales for the Billboard charts. And even if an artist has no chance whatsoever of appearing on the charts, still, Soundscan numbers play a huge (some might say inordinate) role in the American recording industry. > Sure beat going to Virgin only to be told "We dont carrry any Tzadik recrds", hhmm, i think you mean you dant carry any MUSIC. Here in New York you can find the entire Tzadik catalog in both of the Virgin megastores. It depends on where you're shopping, clearly. > SO to sum up, are people here pro -local record store, or not? I think, given the opportunity, that everybody would favor a record store that carried exactly what they wanted, and was staffed by people who could tell them more about the music and then point them towards still further music to discover. But even here in America, that's pretty rare, and that's why I so treasure Downtown Music Gallery and Other Music. But it's also why I tend to turn to the Zornlist, more than any other source, to sway my shopping list. More than anything else, the ability of the employees to make informed recommendations is what's missing from the CD superstores in the real world. By contrast, the online shops at least offer a modicum of advice, as well as often letting Joe Q. Public post a review that appears in the same font and text size as the words of the "experts." In my opinion, that's the best thing they've got going for them. So I get my suggestions from the Zornlist, and then it's up to me to figure out where to track this stuff down. Finally, to give testimony to my own buying habits, I've only ever bought one disc online from a "superstore," a disc I couldn't have found in a store even here in New York, since it was deleted before it was shipped to most shops. In general I simply lack the patience... when I want something, I want it NOW. And that is, I think, the final testimonial as to what stores suceed or fail here in the USA. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: gert-jan prins (review, + rec requ.) Date: 28 Nov 2000 23:44:54 -0800 (PST) I'm now listening to the E-rax LIVE AT THE BIMHUIS "field recording" CD (which I thought was CD-R, but it looks nice, permanent, and sounds great; recorded by Thomas Lehn). The band is apparently an offshoot of the Loos Ensemble (the insert directs us to http://www.loosensemble.nl ), and includes Gert-Jan Prins, Thomas Lehn, and Peter Van Bergen. Van Bergen is here heard only on wind controller and sampler. By process of elimination, I think I can peel apart who is doing what, but the effort is tiresome and maybe fruitless. Fans of Lehn's BART record would probably enjoy this, though the textures on LIVE somehow seem less rough; the three (plus) voices seem to blend into a polymorphous timbre organism; the music is often shorn with blasts of static and (Lehn's?) electronic clatter, which sounds like a hive of synthetic popsand crackle; also plenty of digital popcorn. The record is really not much of an assault, and seesm to start more rambunctiously than it finishes. There seems to be relatively little fat, and the places that virtuosity and chance operations collide, the sense of risk that infuses the moment, feels every bit the tight-rope act. Even the noisiest, most static-soaked instants seem thoughtful, imperative, and unfailingly contrasted with timbre, timbre, timbre. Great stuff! Could anyone recommend other Gert-Jan Prins-related recordings? I notice he has a live solo album on Grob, just out. Best, ------s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: gert-jan prins (review, + rec requ.) Date: 29 Nov 2000 02:51:21 EST In a message dated 11/29/00 2:46:50 AM, thesubtlebody@yahoo.com writes: << Could anyone recommend other Gert-Jan Prins-related recordings? I notice he has a live solo album on Grob, just out. >> e-rax is the best one I've heard. the new one is pretty good, but could have used a little editing here and there. the earlier solo Noise Capture (X-Or) isn't as fluid as either of these two. and seeing him perform live is more exciting than any of these, with a flickering TV monitor filled with patterns of static which he controls in time with the music. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Velaires@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: supporting local indie shops Date: 29 Nov 2000 03:23:05 EST I would love to really get behind the mom'n'pop shops once and for all, but, believe it or not, Los Angeles is really a lousy place to try and find an Ellery Eskelin record. Unfortunately, the indie shops are victims of the limited shelf space that comes with limited funds. If anyone in the LA area has been to Canterbury Music in Pasadena, you know what I mean. The people running these places have the best intentions in the world, but the bulk of their income -- and, for that matter, their very license to keep stocking unpopular music -- comes from selling records by such teenbeat specialists as Beck and Matchbox 20. Since the store won;t be getting any bigger anytime soon, they have to make room. And, in LA especially (an industry town, not an art town), that means smaller selections of hatArt, Soul Note, Winter & Winter etc. Titles that don't sell in about six weeks are generally returned. If you need to know how bad the shelves vs stock situation really is, Rhino Records in Westwood, a very very respected area store, just had to return the bulk of its blues stock to the point where the only Muddy Waters CDs in the store are Best Of Vol 1 and Vol2. And this in what is supposed to be one of the two or three best stores in town. Not encouraging. They stock no Joey Baron discs at all (but have many techno dance titles because people in West LA like to shake it, baby). Corporate monolith tho it might be, Amazon is at least easy to find for anybody with a computer, and (by my experience) has what you need and gets it to you pretty quick. This amounts to better access to the mainstream than is even afforded by artists carried by distributors who can theoretically get you stocked at Tower and Borders, but, because their sales numbers are deemed inconsequential, can't get their product shleved in the big chains. If I go to Tower to buy something specific and they don't have it, I might wind up not buying it in a timely fashion, because it's not like all the half-decent record stores are anywhere near each other around these parts. But Amazon generally has it, and they deliver. I agree that it is better to order direct from the label's website, but a lot of these labels are run by one or two people who aren't always real quick about getting orders out (a problem I've had), or who don't keep their website up to date with all their new releases (the Tzadik problem). Other problem -- I have not memorized the names of all the different CD-selling websites. skip heller NP: Ruben & the Jets: FOR REAL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Re: supporting local indie shops Date: 29 Nov 2000 09:33:43 -0000 On this note, on my last order from David Hodgson (who stocks Erstwhile by the way as well as some Tzadik), he sent the shipment before I had actually sent the check. Now that's what I call service! He's at pbe@Rt66.com For those of us living far outside the states, it's often advantageous to order online from the chains so as to cut down on postage. I usally order books by surface mail. It takes 6-8 weeks but it's fairly close in price to online ordering in the US. On that note, a good coupon site can be found below, which is useful at holiday time. I saved a lot of money with this one last year. http://cdshopper.cjb.net/ _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn_Lea@avid.com Subject: Amazon Apologized for its variable pricing experiement back in Date: 29 Nov 2000 08:03:28 -0500 This is old news, but apparently some of you didn't see it: September 28, 2000 Amazon.com apologized publicly yesterday for a "random price test" on DVDs they conducted earlier this month, describing the test as a "mistake" and promising to provide refunds to 6,896 customers who purchased at less than the lowest price. They expect these refunds to average $3.10 per customer, or about $21,000 in total. During the five day test, first disclosed two weeks ago in an online chat room, Amazon randomized discounts of between 20 percent and 40 percent on 68 DVD titles to determine the effect of pricing on purchasing. However, Amazon denies ongoing rumors that the discounts targeted demographic data of the shoppers as alleged by many privacy advocates, insisting that the test was "totally random." While Amazon is not ruling out the possibility of further random tests on pricing in the future, their new policy will be to "automatically give customers who purchased a test item the lowest test price for that item at the conclusion of the test period." "We've never tested and we never will test prices based on customer demographics," said Amazon.com founder and CEO Jeff Bezos in a prepared statement. "What we did was a random price test, and even that was a mistake because it created uncertainty for customers rather than simplifying their lives. The policy we put in place two weeks ago removes that uncertainty." http://www.revenews.com/advice/news/092800a.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Moudry Subject: Amazon vs. Web Indie Sites Date: 29 Nov 2000 08:51:21 -0600 At 11:45 29-11-00 +1030, Case wrote: >Hi all, > >I was thinking that in light of the nature of this list, which i would >consider to some degree "outsider" music, why is it that people appear >happy to support these huge web based record stores. >I think for the most part the people who may most benefit form them are >those, who like me live outside the USA, I am wondering if the prices are >really any cheaper to the US comapre's as opposed to them buying form >thier local record store. >I am also refferring to the non-massive chain record stores. >I really like it when I can but a record directly form the artist, or from >the label (web of Mimicry et al) as I feel there is alt least a chance the >artist will see some benifit. >Sure beat going to Virgin only to be told "We dont carrry any Tzadik >recrds", hhmm, i think you mean you dant carry any MUSIC. > There are ways to support the musicians more directly and still use the convenience of the Web: quite a few of the indies have Web sites (I always link to them in my labels checklist project on my Saturn Web). Also, there's an excellent "one stop" Web site that specialises in micro labels such as: AUM Fidelity, Amanita Music, Amulet, Atavistic, Boxholder, Cryptogramaphone, Drimala, Eremite, Erstwhile, Full Metal Revolutionary Jazz Ensemble, Hopscotch, Jumbo, Kali, Meniscus, Nuscope, sFz, Sachimay, Sublingual, Wobbly Rail, and many single/limited items done by the musicians themselves (e.g., Vatal Cherry, Joel Futterman). All prieces include shipping, and my experience with the serivce has been fast and excellent. Standard disclaimers invoked, that I have no financial or other relationship with the site other than being a very satisfied customer. The URL/address is: which gets you directly to the labels listing. Hope this doesn't sound too commercial. Saturnally, Joe Moudry Office of Academic Computing & Technology School of Education, The University of Alabama @ Birmingham Master of Saturn Web (Sun Ra, the Arkestra, & Free Jazz): Producer/Host of Classic Jazz & Creativ Improv on Alabama Public Radio: WUAL 91.5FM Tuscaloosa/Birmingham WQPR 88.7FM Muscle Shoals/NW Alabama WAPR 88.3FM Selma/Montgomery/Southern Alabama - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: supporting local indie shops Date: 29 Nov 2000 11:03:51 EST --part1_64.8cdd6d9.275682e7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And today's question was... > SO to sum up, are people here pro -local record store, or not? I try to buy local as much as possible. Problem with many local retailers in my area, is that they try to add a dollar or two to the price if they have to "special order" an item. This usually means overpaying for the same item had I gone to an online vendor. When buying a handful of items, this can add up, especially when sales taxes are deferred due to buying out of state. -- =dg= --part1_64.8cdd6d9.275682e7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And today's question was...

SO to sum up, are people here pro -local record store, or not?
I try to buy local as much as possible.  Problem with many local retailers in
my area, is that they try to add a dollar or two to the price if they have to
"special order" an item.  This usually means overpaying for the same item had
I gone to an online vendor.  When buying a handful of items, this can add up,
especially when sales taxes are deferred due to buying out of state.
--
=dg= --part1_64.8cdd6d9.275682e7_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: tiszji munoz(masada/jump) Date: 29 Nov 2000 11:14:01 -0500 hi, paul -- i think i can say a little something on munoz, and trust i'll be corrected if i'm wrong. he lives in upstate new york and was on some pharoah sanders records way back sometime. hasn't been recorded in a long time before the last 3 years or so, when he's done a half dozen or so records. somehow henry kaiser found him and started championing him, i believe. more important than the bio, tho, is that he's a blistering guitarist. in the sonny sharrock mold, even tho one hates to draw parallels between players. i have one disc and have heard a few others and they seem to be consistently strong (even if the covers are ugly). while i'm talking, i don't believe masada is retiring. jz would erect more fanfare if that were the case, methinks. and plus also a last minute mention to nyers to attend if you please: Sound & Dance Jam An evening of dance, music and festivities Come prepared to Jam! Wednesday November 29th 8 - 10pm Featuring: Luciana Achugar, Levi Gonzolas, Lina Maria Jimenez, Geoff Mann, Steve Swell, Marija Krtolica, David Brandt, Bernard Rosat, Julia Wilkins, Aaron Johnson, Jennifer Kjos 10pm - midnight All out free form jam session! all welcome $6 besides which too, paul, drop me a line, huh? ok. uncle kurt np: rickie lee jones - traffic from paradise - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Re: supporting local indie shops Date: 29 Nov 2000 11:15:13 -0500 (EST) Here in Toronto, where all the downtown megastores stock some "outside" product, the number of small outlets isn't a problem. But there are still unobtainable or overpriced discs. One I've found solution is to order from Verge in Uxbridge, Ont.: www.vergemusic.com The selection is vast, the people friendly and the service fast. A disc will arrive in Toronto within a a day or two. And prices are in Canadian dollars, which makes a difference for European and American releases. I've heard Cadence/North Country south of the 49th operates the same way. In terms of indies, BTW, there was a wire service story in Saturday's Toronto Star about NYC's Other Music. It talked about its success among the "hip", strange store classifications and how the people running it are now expanding by opening a second store in Cambridge, Mass. Does that mean Other is on the way to be the next Tower or HMV? Ken Waxman --- Velaires@aol.com wrote: > I would love to really get behind the mom'n'pop > shops once and for all, but, > believe it or not, Los Angeles is really a lousy > place to try and find an > Ellery Eskelin record. > > Unfortunately, the indie shops are victims of the > limited shelf space that omes with limited funds. _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "graham connah" Subject: support this indie shop Date: 29 Nov 2000 09:28:47 -0800 you guys should all make use of CLAMAZON.COM. they specialize in experimental, weird rock, ands independent releases in general. As they are still in their relative infancy, most of their roster probably reflects their Bay Area location. (yes, people, music/noise is being made in places other than chicago, nyc, and europe.) Clamazon is run by a bunch of musicians who are visionary, honest and dedicated. Everyone here who is a label owner or recording artist should strongly consider having them carry your stuff. so get on over there posthaste! that's www.clamazon.com, or e-mail headclam@clamazon.com. later, GC > From: Acousticlv@aol.com > Subject: supporting local indie shops > > In a message dated 11/28/00 11:47:54 PM, you wrote: > << > SO to sum up, are people here pro -local record store, or not? >>> > > hi crew, > i make it my business to give my money to the mom n pop shops which > support me with personal service, and love what theyre doing. > this goes for buying milk as well as discs. > i usually buy jazz/improv at my 'local' shop downtown music gallery because > not only is the service excellent but, as you will find in many other > small stores nationwide, they provide a sense of COMMUNITY; > offer free instore gigs, musicians hang out and they shop and buy too. > i like the sense of NEIGHBORHOOD. > > while i do also buy online, it's always from independent distributors > or direct from labels or artists. and many are cheaper. mode records > are cheaper direct from them than rom other sources. lots of avant-everything > at anomalous.com, anything jazz improv or proggy at dtmgallery.com, > a select bunch of ambient/noise/dark and general strangeness from vince at > manifoldrecords.com. > > even online these places give personal service; > manifold even accepts returns on discs you dont like if in fine condition and > you contact vince within a few days. > > drowning in vinyl and silver > and still giving thanks.... > steve koenig > n.p. nothing .... just the sound of the d train off in the distance > > - - > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 23:42:37 -0500 > From: Joseph Zitt > Subject: Re: supporting local indie shops > > If I lived somewhere with better local shops, I'd definitely use > them. As it is, I get to Now Music and Fashion in Arlington when I > can. And I don't know whether this counts as a local store per se, > but the Tower Records in Fairfax, VA, has a well-stocked and displayed > Free Improv section which I hit way too often :-) > > But the bulk of my purchases are online, from Downtown Music Gallery, > Anomalous Records, and Forced Exposure. And, prompted by postings here > (curse you, Red Baron), I just plunked down some bucks at > www.dustygrooves.com . And when I hit Austin, I make sure to go into > feeding frenzy at 33 Degrees. > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: support this indie shop Date: 29 Nov 2000 09:34:38 -0800 We are quite lucky here in Portland OR thanks to two stores: Ozone Music Millenium I don't always find what I want, but the selections are quite impressive and always worth to check. Ozone, for exemple, has special sections for experimental music (with more flavors than I can really keep track of). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: Re: supporting local indie shops Date: 29 Nov 2000 10:04:45 -0800 (PST) --- Ken Waxman wrote: > One I've found solution is to order from Verge in > Uxbridge, Ont.: > www.vergemusic.com So many of these stores who do this as a labor of love as much as a vehicle to move product are also pretty friendly places to shop; I've taxed the time of numerous shops asking them what they like: Othermusic, Twisted Village, Amoeba (Berkeley), Jazz Record Mart (Chicago). Verge's service is great, as is DTM Gallery. I have also ordered a number of times from Rioux's Records, who are very responsive by e.mail, and very fiendly. They have a site: http://riouxs.com ----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Amazon et al Supporting your Local Record Store Date: 29 Nov 2000 10:38:04 -0800 At 1:13 AM 11/29/00, Steve Smith wrote: >sinkas wrote: > >> I was thinking that in light of the nature of this list, which i would >>consider to some degree "outsider" music, why is it that people appear >>happy to support these huge web based record stores. > >As often as not, it's because it's the only option available to many who >don't live in "major markets." Even in the USA, such stores are not >common. They depend upon a dedicated shop-owner (like DMG's Bruce >Gallanter) and a steady and >dependable clientele to assure their continued existence. In New York and >Chicago and the Bay Area (and even Houston, TX, where I grew up), this >isn't a problem. But you're not likely to find a mom'n'pop shop that >carries such outsider music >outside such major markets. > > As someone who worked for far too many years in an indie record store, one thing I should point out is that if your local store doesn't stock wierdo avant titles, they can order them, and are often very happy to do so. The store I worked at, Happy Trails in Corvallis, OR, gets most of it's stock from Valley Media, a one-stop distributor on the west coast. I'm constantly amazed at the stuff that Valley carries, in fact it's relatively rare that I can't order a CD I'm looking for from them. One benefit to ordering through a store than ordering online is that you are letting the store owners know that there's a market for the stuff you like, and it may lead them to stocking it more. ____________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus- ____________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Amazon vs. Web Indie Sites Date: 29 Nov 2000 13:40:35 EST In a message dated 11/29/00 10:05:03 AM, Moudry@uab.edu writes: << The URL/address is: >> yeah, one other thing about Drimala is that they're amazingly fast with their payments to the label, which is a side of the business that consumers are rarely informed about, but is obviously very important in a discussion like this. they also do a really nice job presenting the CDs they stock. I definitely second Joe's recommendation here. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stefan Verstraeten" Subject: Re: new derek bailey releases Date: 29 Nov 2000 19:54:03 +0100 >From: Scott Handley >Subject: Re: new derek bailey releases > >- --- Stefan Verstraeten > wrote: >> NP A new cassette-letter by Derek Bailey..... > >Say what? What is this? Well, derek bailey is not only strange in his music... but also in normal life. Sometimes he refuses to write, and instead he records his message while playing-improvising on his guitar. Other times he just picks his guitar and starts chatting and sends it to the world... For example, he once made a publicity spot about incus where he made jokes about his own style of playing... incredible stuff.... Best wishes Stefan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stinkipipi@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: supporting local indie shops Date: 29 Nov 2000 14:00:57 EST i defintely have to second pbe. david is an incredibly stand-up guy with great turn-around. he's done me well over the last few years. dave bill laswell, eraldo bernocchi, mich harris and lori carson discographies : http://www.geocities.com/slntwtchr - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Pierre Toussaint" Subject: zorn liner notes Date: 29 Nov 2000 15:32:59 -0500 Hi Zorn fans, I'm planing on writing an essay on John Zorn's music (art and politics). While I have many of his recordings, I do not own them all. Would it be possible for some of you to send me, either scanned or else, the texts printed inside his tzadik releases. I would appreciate this since being a poor PhD student (are they many out there?) I can't purchase them all. Hope that some of you can help. And sorry for my lousy english. Thanks. Pierre Toussaint - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sinkas" Subject: Re: Amazon et al Supporting your Local Record Store Date: 30 Nov 2000 08:33:08 +1030 That is exactly what I was getting at. Case "Alma Matters" ----- Original Message -----=20 Cc: sinkas ; Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 5:08 AM | At 1:13 AM 11/29/00, Steve Smith wrote: | >sinkas wrote: | > | >> I was thinking that in light of the nature of this list, which i = would | >>consider to some degree "outsider" music, why is it that people = appear | >>happy to support these huge web based record stores. | > | >As often as not, it's because it's the only option available to many = who | >don't live in "major markets." Even in the USA, such stores are not | >common. They depend upon a dedicated shop-owner (like DMG's Bruce | >Gallanter) and a steady and | >dependable clientele to assure their continued existence. In New = York and | >Chicago and the Bay Area (and even Houston, TX, where I grew up), = this | >isn't a problem. But you're not likely to find a mom'n'pop shop that | >carries such outsider music | >outside such major markets. | > | > | As someone who worked for far too many years in an indie record store, = one | thing I should point out is that if your local store doesn't stock = wierdo | avant titles, they can order them, and are often very happy to do so. = The | store I worked at, Happy Trails in Corvallis, OR, gets most of it's = stock | from Valley Media, a one-stop distributor on the west coast. I'm = constantly | amazed at the stuff that Valley carries, in fact it's relatively rare = that | I can't order a CD I'm looking for from them. One benefit to ordering | through a store than ordering online is that you are letting the store | owners know that there's a market for the stuff you like, and it may = lead | them to stocking it more. |=20 | ____________________________________________ | Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org | Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic | Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus- | ____________________________________________ |=20 |=20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Berman" Subject: Rottor (Re: supporting local indie shops) Date: 30 Nov 2000 00:38:22 +0100 >>>>> "Joseph" == Joseph Zitt writes: Joseph> n.p. Rottor: (uh, I left the case in the car and don't recall the Joseph> name, and don't feel like stopping it to look at the disc Joseph> itself... but Julie Tippet is just amazing on this...) I was rather disappointed with this record (assuming you mean Emanem 4026 _The First Full Turn_) essentially due to Julie Tippett, whose voice I felt was much too up front and dominating. Admittedly, I'm not a great fan of vocal free improv, yet there are a couple of records with Julie Tippett that I really like: _Twilight Etchings_ (FMP CD 65, with Keith Tippett and Willi Kellers) and especially _Couple in Spirit_ (Editions EG CD 52, with K. Tippett), so it's not her in principal but only how she comes across on this record that rubs me the wrong way (on first listening; I expect I'll give it another listen someday and maybe then will have a different impression). A contributing factor may also be the fact that I saw ROTOR (i.e., without J. Tippett) in concert a year or so before I got this CD and was very, very impressed, a wonderful performance, which I'd hoped to have a taste of again from the CD but didn't. --Steve Berman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sinkas" Subject: Maryanne-Faith-No-Morrissey Date: 30 Nov 2000 11:45:13 +1030 Does anyoe have any info about this supposed album? Case "Alma Matters" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath Subject: Re: Maryanne-Faith-No-Morrissey Date: 29 Nov 2000 19:18:35 -0600 At 11:45 AM 11/30/00 +1030, you wrote: >Does anyoe have any info about this supposed album? If I'm not mistaken, that's the name of the second track on John Oswald's Plexure album on Avant. That's the only place I've heard of it. Craig M. Rath H: fripp@mn.mediaone.net W: rathc@questarweb.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Rottor (Re: supporting local indie shops) Date: 29 Nov 2000 22:10:35 -0500 I was listening to it primarily for the vocal improv, so I wasn't as but off by her dominance, but I did notice that she overpowered the others (I wonder if the live mix was the same). I'll have to check out the two of hers that you mention, On Thu, Nov 30, 2000 at 12:38:22AM +0100, Steve Berman wrote: > >>>>> "Joseph" == Joseph Zitt writes: > > Joseph> n.p. Rottor: (uh, I left the case in the car and don't recall > the > Joseph> name, and don't feel like stopping it to look at the disc > Joseph> itself... but Julie Tippet is just amazing on this...) > > I was rather disappointed with this record (assuming you mean Emanem 4026 > _The > First Full Turn_) essentially due to Julie Tippett, whose voice I felt was > much too up front and dominating. Admittedly, I'm not a great fan of vocal > free improv, yet there are a couple of records with Julie Tippett that I > really like: _Twilight Etchings_ (FMP CD 65, with Keith Tippett and Willi > Kellers) and especially _Couple in Spirit_ (Editions EG CD 52, with > K. Tippett), so it's not her in principal but only how she comes across on > this record that rubs me the wrong way (on first listening; I expect I'll > give > it another listen someday and maybe then will have a different impression). > A > contributing factor may also be the fact that I saw ROTOR (i.e., without > J. Tippett) in concert a year or so before I got this CD and was very, very > impressed, a wonderful performance, which I'd hoped to have a taste of again > from the CD but didn't. > > --Steve Berman > > > > - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Joe Morris on BET?!? Date: 30 Nov 2000 01:13:32 -0500 I'm astonished. As I type this, the Joe Morris Quartet (Mat Maneri, Chris Lightcap, Gerald Cleaver) is playing on my television, on the BET on Jazz network's "Live at the Knitting Factory" series. If only I'd known in advance, I'd have had a videotape ready. Why has this series received virtually no publicity? Far from me to be a shill for anything Knitting Factory-related, but fuck, Joe Morris on my TV? No matter. Time for me to sign off and sink in. Amazing. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Mat Maneri playing a typically slinky solo bit... damn he's good... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Re: supporting local indie shops Date: 30 Nov 2000 07:35:32 EST In a message dated 11/29/00 12:31:39 PM, you wrote: <> my main problem with that store, beside prices higher than downtown music gallery, is that every time ive strolled in, the last three years, some kind of strong-beat electronica is playing loudly and i just up and leave after my nerves get shot. the store is not limited to that by any means yet that is all i hear. what they do carry, however, goes way beyond jazz/improv and that is a plus. that is, if you DO care to buy stockhausen's outrageously self-priced reissues on his own label, approx $30USD/disc. glad i have all my DGG vinyl. steve k the disco bunny n.p. the beep on my alarm clock; i guess i shd log off and go to work.... oy veh is mir a/k/a oh mary dont ask - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: supporting local indie shops Date: 30 Nov 2000 07:44:32 EST In a message dated 11/30/00 7:37:19 AM, Acousticlv@aol.com writes: << my main problem with that store, beside prices higher than downtown music gallery, is that every time ive strolled in, the last three years, some kind of strong-beat electronica is playing loudly and i just up and leave after my nerves get shot. >> their prices are definitely on the high side, but they play all kinds of stuff in the store. when I was in there yesterday, they were playing Sun Ra's When Angels Speak Of Love. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CuneiWay@aol.com Subject: re: Clamazon.com Date: 30 Nov 2000 08:44:34 EST >Everyone here who is a label owner or recording artist should strongly >consider having them carry your stuff. The guy(s) at Clamazon seem VERY nice, & I'm sure that they are great. HOWEVER, one thing to bear in mind is that when they approached us about carrying our stuff, they were unwilling to "buy" the materials - and I did NOT tell them that they had to order any kind of a minimum or anything like that. They wanted us to do a consignment deal, something that I, & I suspect many label owners, are unwilling to do with a direct e-retailer, especially when you have a label with over 150 releases [Cuneiform] & represent the US market for a UK label with an additional 75-some releases [ReR]. Steve F. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se (Stephen Fruitman) Subject: Re: Sussan Deyhim Date: 30 Nov 2000 14:51:03 +0100 (MET) >I would recommend Sussan Deyhim. >Her actual CD >Madman Of God from this year is interesting. And her new CD on Eyestorm, _Turbulent_, is absolutely fascinating. Stephen Stephen Fruitman Dept of Historical Studies Ume=E5 University SE-901 87 Ume=E5 Sweden - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: tsiziji munoz Date: 30 Nov 2000 18:19:54 >more important than the bio, tho, is that he's a blistering guitarist. >in >the sonny sharrock mold, even tho one hates to draw parallels >between >players. i have one disc and have heard a few others and they >seem to be >consistently strong (even if the covers are ugly). right, the one i have (forget the title) has a strong similarity to sharrock's "ask the ages," mainly for the distorted electric guitar + coltrane sidemen element (Rashied Ali and Pharaoh Sanders are on this record). But the main difference to my ears is that Munoz has a lot more "chops," and plays a LOT of notes, (at least on this album) not much noise. Another album I tie in with those two is that Nels Cline/Greeg Bendian "Interstellar Space Revisited" CD from last year, which I thought was pretty great. Actually you can download a track from that here (free, and legally): http://www.epitonic.com/artists/nelsclinegreggbendian.html WY _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Martin Wisckol" Subject: help me find hathut Date: 30 Nov 2000 10:26:29 -0800 as cool as they are, my local record shop can't get hatology/hathut/hatart/hatsmut. Amazon's selection is limited and has jacked up prices. I've done the Cadence thing before, but don't feel like making the commitment right now -- i just want eskelin's 5 other pieces. any suggestions on where to track this down (and other hathut) online? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: help me find hathut Date: 30 Nov 2000 13:52:17 -0500 Martin Wisckol wrote: > as cool as they are, my local record shop can't get > hatology/hathut/hatart/hatsmut. Amazon's selection is limited and has > jacked up prices. I've done the Cadence thing before, but don't feel like > making the commitment right now -- i just want eskelin's 5 other pieces. > any suggestions on where to track this down (and other hathut) online? Of course, you had to pick one that Ellery doesn't sell online himself. He's got other stuff available, though, at home.earthlink.net/~eskelin The hat hut website (www.hathut.com) urges you to buy from Cadence. The best prices I've ever seen for hat stuff (exclusing closeout sales) are at Downtown Music Gallery, because Bruce often buys direct from artists and passes the savings along: www.DTMGallery.com Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Issi Rozen, "Softly, as in a Morning Sunrise," 'Homeland Blues' (Brownstone) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Martin Wisckol" Subject: Re(2): help me find hathut Date: 30 Nov 2000 11:08:49 -0800 Thanks Steve. You are a boundless fount. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linares Hugo Subject: RE: Re(2): help me find hathut Date: 30 Nov 2000 17:00:29 -0300 Seconded. What would the Z-List be without Steve Smith (and Patrice, and Jon, and Z-List goes on)? Hugo Linares > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Martin Wisckol [SMTP:Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com] > Enviado el: Jueves 30 de Noviembre de 2000 4:09 PM > Para: ssmith36@sprynet.com > CC: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Asunto: Re(2): help me find hathut > > Thanks Steve. You are a boundless fount. > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alastair Wilson" Subject: Megastores pricing policy (off topic and a bit long) Date: 30 Nov 2000 20:02:50 -0000 Further to the indie vs mega vs web sales discussions: It's always worth checking the big stores for stuff as their ignorance can sometimes work in your favour. Case in point: I picked up Bloodcount's "Unwound" triple CD today at the Virgin Megastore in London for sixteen pounds - usual UK price thirty-seven pounds. They obviously hadn't realised it was a triple and just put a "regular" price tag on it. Nice to think that by buying there I've probably *cost* Virgin money, rather than the other way round. As long as Berne got his full cut... On a related point - why do big shops never have proper jazz/experimental sales? Not the promotions like 2 for £22 and the like, which are never as wide ranging as you'd want, but proper lets-clear-out-the-stuff-that-aint-moving sales. Case in point 2: a copy of Steve Beresford's "Signals For Tea" CD has been in the store mentioned above since 1995 according to it's price tag, and is still at full price. They've even got two new copies in recently, which obviously haven't sold. If you've had stock for 5 years, isn't it time to take a few quid off the price and watch it go? I know I'd buy more from them if they did so. For the record: my main record shop of choice is Rough Trade in Covent Garden www.roughtrade.co.uk. They do mailorder but their jazz section isn't their strong point. Absolutely topnotch for electronic/experimental stuff though, and the post rock nonscene. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Megastores pricing policy (off topic and a bit long) Date: 30 Nov 2000 14:45:03 -0500 On Thu, Nov 30, 2000 at 08:02:50PM -0000, Alastair Wilson wrote: =20 > On a related point - why do big shops never have proper jazz/experiment= al > sales? Not the promotions like 2 for =A322 and the like, which are neve= r as > wide ranging as you'd want, but proper > lets-clear-out-the-stuff-that-aint-moving sales. Case in point 2: a cop= y of > Steve Beresford's "Signals For Tea" CD has been in the store mentioned = above > since 1995 according to it's price tag, and is still at full price. The= y've > even got two new copies in recently, which obviously haven't sold. If y= ou've > had stock for 5 years, isn't it time to take a few quid off the price a= nd > watch it go? I know I'd buy more from them if they did so. When I first started shopping there, the Tower in Tyson's Corner (VA) had just such a sale. I picked up some good stuff at pretty good prices. --=20 |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Toula Ballas" Subject: President Clinton Date: 30 Nov 2000 15:55:08 -0500 Has President Bill Clinton ever rocked with Haino Keiji? I heard they did a duet with Bill on Sopranino and Haino on vocals only! Paul Kurt: I lost my gig in Chicago and have been out of the box for a bit. Talk to you soon! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: help me find hathut Date: 30 Nov 2000 15:58:54 -0500 Linares Hugo wrote: > Seconded. Aw, you're making me blush! Really I'm just an unemployed dork with too much time on my hands to go web-surfing at the drop of a hat... ;-) > What would the Z-List be without Steve Smith (and Patrice, and Jon, and > Z-List goes on)? And Brian Olewnick, and Bill Ashline, and RRRick Lopez, and Joseph Zitt, and Martin Wisckol, and Keith McMullen, and Ken Waxman, and Hugo Linares, and Caleb Deupree, and Tom Benton, and Steve Koenig, and Skip Heller, and Sugar in Their Vitamins, and Jason Tors, and Dave Trenkel, and Dan Hewins, and Marcin Gokieli, and, well, everybody whose name I'm omitting... and... and... that other guy we hardly ever hear from? Oh yeah, Rizzi something-or-other... Group hug, everyone, and raise glasses to Rizzi. (But I'm telling you, I STILL miss Jeff Spirer, the king of all things Laswell and a great source of literary suggestions. Wish I cared enough about Laswell stuff to go hang out on that list... I miss Tom Pratt, too, although at least Jon keeps us posted by proxy. And where the hell is Jody McAlister?) My ears wouldn't be the same without any of you guys. This is the best list I've ever been a part of, and I really appreciate the fact that almost everything stays above the belt. Maudlin, Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - nothing, but looking forward to hearing both Fripp and Frisell tonight (separate events, of course...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert Subject: Re: Zorn ends Masada Date: 30 Nov 2000 22:21:58 +0800 kurt wrote: i don't believe masada is retiring. jz would erect more fanfare if that were the case, methinks. _______________ Well, it was written that Zorn chose to put an end to his Masada band. I see no reason why this loyal reporter (deStandaard) would fabricate this message. This means that Paris is the last European visit by Masada. And Minneapolis could be bye bye for good. We'll see !!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: Re[2]: Zorn ends Masada Date: 30 Nov 2000 16:40:40 -0500 kurt: i don't believe masada is retiring. jz would erect more fanfare if that were the case, methinks. _______________ rob: Well, it was written that Zorn chose to put an end to his Masada band. I see no reason why this loyal reporter (deStandaard) would fabricate this message. This means that Paris is the last European visit by Masada. And Minneapolis could be bye bye for good. We'll see !!!! _______________ kurt: didn't mean to dismiss you so swiftly, rob, nor to denegrate said loyal reporter. my point is that i would guess either something was misunderstood (certainly possible) or, if zorn really said that, that i think it's unlikely to come to pass. the band was retired once already, and when naked city was disbanded, he certainly wasn't quiet about it. i would hope and expect nyc to be the final stage, if indeed there is a final last concert looming (again, based on naked city's final bow). maybe a kiss/ masada farewell double bill? anyway, indeed, yes, we'll see. kg np: les paul trio - the jazz collector edition (tacky laserlight release) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rob, the Belgian Guy" Subject: Zorn ends Masada Date: 30 Nov 2000 22:49:35 +0800 > Dit bericht heeft een MIME-indeling. Aangezien uw e-maillezer deze indeling niet ondersteunt, is dit bericht mogelijk gedeeltelijk of geheel niet leesbaar. --MS_Mac_OE_3058469375_114056_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit op 01-12-2000 05:40 schreef kurt_gottschalk@scni.com op kurt_gottschalk@scni.com: Kurt: maybe a kiss/ masada farewell double bill? Kiss and Masada ? Count me in :-))))) --MS_Mac_OE_3058469375_114056_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Zorn ends Masada op 01-12-2000 05:40 schreef kurt_gottschalk@scni.com op kurt_gottschalk@scn= i.com:


Kurt:
maybe a kiss/
masada farewell double bill?

Kiss and Masada ? Count me in :-)))))

--MS_Mac_OE_3058469375_114056_MIME_Part-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Zorn ends Masada Date: 30 Nov 2000 16:12:18 -0500 On Thu, Nov 30, 2000 at 10:49:35PM +0800, Rob, the Belgian Guy wrote: > op 01-12-2000 05:40 schreef kurt_gottschalk@scni.com op > kurt_gottschalk@scni.com: > > > Kurt: > maybe a kiss/ > masada farewell double bill? > > Kiss and Masada ? Count me in :-))))) Yeah, they could play the song and CD "Beth" together! -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: London record stores Date: 30 Nov 2000 16:58:28 EST In a message dated 11/30/00 3:02:25 PM, wilsonah@hotmail.com writes: << For the record: my main record shop of choice is Rough Trade in Covent Garden www.roughtrade.co.uk. They do mailorder but their jazz section isn't their strong point. Absolutely topnotch for electronic/experimental stuff though, and the post rock nonscene. >> there's a really good new record store just open in London (for 1 week). it's called sound 323, and is run by the musician Mark Wastell. it's at 323 Archway Road in Highgate. if you get a chance, check it out, and let us know how it is. and if there's actually an Erstwhile window display (as Mark told me), I'd love to see a picture. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: help me find hathut Date: 30 Nov 2000 18:20:18 -0500 At 10:26 AM 11/30/00 -0800, Martin Wisckol wrote: >as cool as they are, my local record shop can't get >hatology/hathut/hatart/hatsmut. Amazon's selection is limited and has >jacked up prices. I've done the Cadence thing before, but don't feel like >making the commitment right now -- i just want eskelin's 5 other pieces. >any suggestions on where to track this down (and other hathut) online? I know you've excluded Cadence, but I notice in their December issue that all of the old Hat releases are on sale for $11.00 and marked as limited. Probably last chance to pick up anything that was on HatHut (as opposed to HatNow, Hatology, etc.) -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. -- Satchel Paige - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alastair Wilson" Subject: Re: London record stores Date: 01 Dec 2000 00:52:32 -0000 I saw it advertised in the Wire, which piqued my curiosity. Now I'll definitely have to take a peek. Erstwhile window display? Blimey. I'll take my camera... ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 9:58 PM > > In a message dated 11/30/00 3:02:25 PM, wilsonah@hotmail.com writes: > > << For the record: my main record shop of choice is Rough Trade in Covent > > Garden www.roughtrade.co.uk. They do mailorder but their jazz section isn't > > their strong point. Absolutely topnotch for electronic/experimental stuff > > though, and the post rock nonscene. >> > > there's a really good new record store just open in London (for 1 week). it's > called sound 323, and is run by the musician Mark Wastell. it's at 323 > Archway Road in > Highgate. if you get a chance, check it out, and let us know how it is. and > if there's actually an Erstwhile window display (as Mark told me), I'd love > to see a picture. > > Jon > www.erstwhilerecords.com > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Toby Dodds" Subject: Re: London record stores Date: 30 Nov 2000 17:25:26 -0800 I was there this summer and was blown away by Sounds of the Universe in Soho on Ingestre St. This is the home to SoulJazz Records and is a really great shop. Surprisingly I was dissapointed by the price and selection at the famous Rays Jazz... :-T http://www.soundsoftheuniverse.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: London record stores Date: 30 Nov 2000 20:54:02 EST In a message dated 11/30/00 8:25:41 PM, toby@dodds.org writes: << I was there this summer and was blown away by Sounds of the Universe in Soho on Ingestre St. This is the home to SoulJazz Records and is a really great shop. Surprisingly I was dissapointed by the price and selection at the famous Rays Jazz... >> I've only been to London once, so I'm certainly no expert, but easily my favorite record store there was These, at 112 Brook Drive. it's in a working class neigbourhood, all apartment buildings, and the only way you know that you're even at the right address is a thin strip of paper next to a buzzer, which reads "THESE" as if it was written in a mirror. very narrow range of music, but way better prices than anyplace else in town that I went. the Tower there seemed to stock a fair bit of experimental music also, in its own section even, next to jazz. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pedro moreno Subject: High Quality Internet Radio Date: 30 Nov 2000 20:31:09 -0600 Hello Zorn Listers, I want to tell you about a great internet radio station that just started Web Casting http://www.radio1austin.com ...take a listen featuring UNDERGROUND HiP hOp ElecTronicA JAZZ.. funk/soul/R&B, WORLD music Avant garde, the spoken word, and other freaky far out and neglected forms of music Tune in to my show Into the Maelstrom Sundays 5-8 (central time zone) for the finest in creative improvised music. http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/intothemaelstrom/intothemaelstrom.html thank you PG moreno Epistrophy Arts Austin, TX http://www.independentaustin.com/epistrophy.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lee, Edgar" Subject: Melbourne improvisors Date: 01 Dec 2000 14:36:52 +1100 For those of you who live in Melbourne, Australia, or intend visiting, there is a new website devoted to the improve scene. http://edim.tafe.vu.edu.au/mportley/aimelb/ Edgar NP Sun Ra Second star to the right -