From: rizzi@browbeat.com (m. rizzi) Subject: zorn-list up and running again! Date: 13 Aug 2001 10:48:34 -0700 (PDT) Hey Y'all! Thanks for being patient. It's been a rough summer for the zorn-list software. Hopefully, we've added enough checks to prevent errant ISP's from getting into an endless loop with the mailing list. If you only see one copy of this message, the consider the mailing list up and running again. woo hoo. you may discuss music now. mike rizzi -- rizzi@browbeat.com ----- "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- Hunter S. Thompson - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 13 Aug 2001 11:34:00 -0700 On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 10:48:34 -0700 (PDT) m. rizzi wrote: > > Thanks for being patient. It's been a rough > summer for the zorn-list software. Hopefully, > we've added enough checks to prevent errant > ISP's from getting into an endless loop with > the mailing list. > > If you only see one copy of this message, > the consider the mailing list up and running > again. woo hoo. > > you may discuss music now. Great! Let's start with: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: konrad Subject: Re: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 13 Aug 2001 14:39:29 -0400 (EDT) 4:33 konrad ^Z On Mon, 13 Aug 2001, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > Great! Let's start with: > > What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? > > Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Crump Subject: Re: zorn-list up and running again! Date: 13 Aug 2001 11:42:09 -0700 Woo! Here's one I've been saving up for a while: The Oxford American is a literary magazine (near death, sadly) based in my old stomping grounds of Oxford, Mississippi. Anyway, the most recent issue is the annual music issue (complete with CD of southern music, as every year). There's a brief interview with Bill Clinton, asking about his musical likes, dislikes, etc. One question was, "What would people be surprised to find out you listen to?" Clinton: "Brotzmann, the German saxophonist. One of the greatest ever." Took me a while to pick myself up off the ground after that one. Inevitably, uncharitably, I thought about Clinton's intern situation and the Brotz/Laswell track "My Balls/Your Chin." Could Bill have been humming that one during? William Crump Thanks for getting us back online, Mike! "m. rizzi" wrote: > you may discuss music now. > > mike rizzi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: zorn-list up and running again! Date: 13 Aug 2001 11:45:48 -0700 On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:42:09 -0700 William Crump wrote: > > Woo! > Here's one I've been saving up for a while: The Oxford American is a > literary magazine (near death, sadly) based in my old stomping grounds of > Oxford, Mississippi. Anyway, the most recent issue is the annual music > issue (complete with CD of southern music, as every year). There's a brief > interview with Bill Clinton, asking about his musical likes, dislikes, > etc. One question was, "What would people be surprised to find out you > listen to?" Clinton: "Brotzmann, the German saxophonist. One of the > greatest ever." Maybe Bill was attracted by the record titles: BALLS NIPPLES Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Re: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 13 Aug 2001 14:48:05 -0400 Or "Tree Falling in Woods With No One to Hear It," especially when performed with old growth cypress. > 4:33 konrad > > What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? > > Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 13 Aug 2001 14:57:07 EDT --part1_15.18c9f5df.28a97d03_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/13/2001 2:35:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, proussel@ichips.intel.com writes: > Great! Let's start with: > > What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Any music that I really, really like ... I would prefer to listen to loud. Having said that, lately I've been cranking up: Some live Wayne Krantz recordings that I have ..... the CD "Seperation Anxieties" by a great band called 12 Rods, which was produced, recorded, and mixed by Todd Rundgren ..... the Squarepusher song "My Red Hot Car" from his latest .... About 8 or 9 years ago when i was in my late teens, i used to LOVE to crank up the Yes CD "90125", particularly the tracks "Changes" and "Owner of a Lonely Heart". Those guitar power chords sound especially good at high decibels. The Brand X CD "X Communication" also sounds really good loud. -Jody --part1_15.18c9f5df.28a97d03_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/13/2001 2:35:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
proussel@ichips.intel.com writes:


Great! Let's start with:
   
   What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud?
Any music that I really, really like ... I would prefer to listen to loud.  
Having said that, lately I've been cranking up:  
Some live Wayne Krantz recordings that I have .....
the CD "Seperation Anxieties" by a great band called 12 Rods, which was
produced, recorded, and mixed by Todd Rundgren .....  
the Squarepusher song "My Red Hot Car" from his latest ....

About 8 or 9 years ago when i was in my late teens, i used to LOVE to crank
up the Yes CD "90125", particularly the tracks "Changes" and "Owner of a
Lonely Heart".  Those guitar power chords sound especially good at high
decibels.
The Brand X CD "X Communication" also sounds really good loud.

-Jody --part1_15.18c9f5df.28a97d03_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: zorn-list up and running again! Date: 13 Aug 2001 15:03:03 EDT --part1_12f.2f18890.28a97e67_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/13/2001 2:43:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, william@steno.com writes: > Here's one I've been saving up for a while: The Oxford American is a > literary magazine (near death, sadly) based in my old stomping grounds of > Oxford, Mississippi. Anyway, the most recent issue is the annual music > issue (complete with CD of southern music, as every year). There's a brief > interview with Bill Clinton, asking about his musical likes, dislikes, > etc. One question was, "What would people be surprised to find out you > listen to?" Clinton: "Brotzmann, the German saxophonist. One of the > greatest ever." > The man is a pot smoking, sex crazed, Brotzmann fan ... and we let him out of office ?!?!? --part1_12f.2f18890.28a97e67_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/13/2001 2:43:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
william@steno.com writes:


Here's one I've been saving up for a while:  The Oxford American is a
literary magazine (near death, sadly) based in my old stomping grounds of
Oxford, Mississippi. Anyway, the most recent issue is the annual music
issue (complete with CD of southern music, as every year). There's a brief
interview with Bill Clinton, asking about his musical likes, dislikes,
etc. One question was, "What would people be surprised to find out you
listen to?" Clinton: "Brotzmann, the German saxophonist. One of the
greatest ever."


The man is a pot smoking, sex crazed, Brotzmann fan ... and we let him out of
office ?!?!? --part1_12f.2f18890.28a97e67_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 13 Aug 2001 15:05:04 -0400 Really loud? Lately it's "Fleurs du Mal" from NC's _Absinthe_, "Val de Travers" as well, the Golden Boat End Titles from _Filmworks I_, "Miss Maple," "Peel," "Postcard," and "2000" from the Coctails' brilliant _Peel_, various Big Star, and, uh, a couple improv pieces I performed a few weeks ago and captured on MiniDisc off the board. -Maurice At 11:34 AM -0700 8/13/01, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Rosenstein" Subject: Re: zorn-list up and running again! Date: 13 Aug 2001 15:13:06 -0400 I've had this passing thought this summer that someone could use the odd loops, long silences, and false starts caused by the mailserver to develop a game theory piece. Maybe we should just send the archives through some text-to-speech software and record the output. Well, it's good to be back on track. That said, has anyone heard the new King Ubu Orchestra release on FMP? I've been really fond of the first two releases, placing spare interplay and abstract, nuanced timbres in the context of large ensemble free interaction. Michael Rosenstein michaelr@world.std.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 13 Aug 2001 15:19:22 EDT Anything by the Andrew Weiss version of the Rollins Band. Any Attractions-era Elvis Costello Wilco Positively 4th Street -- Dylan The "Quickness" album by the Bad Brains "Master of Puppets" -- Metallica The first four Black Sabbath albums Everything from Iron Maiden up to "Powerslave" I don't crank jazz or classical. Tom - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 13 Aug 2001 12:19:49 -0700 On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:05:04 -0400 Maurice Rickard wrote: > > Really loud? Lately it's "Fleurs du Mal" from NC's _Absinthe_, "Val ^^^^^^^^^^^ Yes, really loud: The Beatles: "Helter Skelter" Curve: "Recovery" Golden Palominos: "Only One Party" The Jesus and Mary Chain: "In A Hole" Kate Bush: "Ken" Arto Lindsay: "Locus Correleus" Pixies: "Debaser" John Zorn: "The Violent Death Of Dutch Schultz" Sully: "Otherd" Blur: "Trimm Trabb" I know, the Zorn one is not a song but it sounds so great at high volume :-). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Knutboy@aol.com Subject: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 13 Aug 2001 15:22:21 EDT --part1_14.18a9d535.28a982ed_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1. Eric B & Rakim "Follow The Leader" 12" 2. Joy Division "Closer" LP 3. Fennesz "Endless Summer" CD 4. Debra Keese "Traveling" (Lee Perry prod.) 45 5. Junior Murvin "Tedious" (Lee Perry prod.) 45 6. Miles Davis "In a Silent Way" CD 7. Cecil Taylor "Berlin-Looking ? (forgot title) FMP CD 8. Squarepusher "My Red Hot Car" 12" 9. Aphex Twin "2 Rmxs" CD 10. Pita "Get Out" CD (boy, that one really alienates the loved ones) So glad the list is up! Steve --part1_14.18a9d535.28a982ed_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1. Eric B & Rakim "Follow The Leader" 12"
2. Joy Division "Closer" LP
3. Fennesz "Endless Summer" CD
4. Debra Keese "Traveling" (Lee Perry prod.) 45
5. Junior Murvin "Tedious" (Lee Perry prod.) 45
6. Miles Davis "In a Silent Way" CD
7. Cecil Taylor "Berlin-Looking ? (forgot title) FMP CD
8. Squarepusher "My Red Hot Car" 12"
9. Aphex Twin "2 Rmxs" CD
10. Pita "Get Out" CD (boy, that one really alienates the loved ones)

So glad the list is up!

Steve --part1_14.18a9d535.28a982ed_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: king ubu Date: 13 Aug 2001 15:38:44 EDT In a message dated 8/13/01 3:15:08 PM, mjrosenstein@hotmail.com writes: << has anyone heard the new King Ubu Orchestra release on FMP? I've been really fond of the first two releases, placing spare interplay and abstract, nuanced timbres in the context of large ensemble free interaction. >> yep, save your money. it documents a 1998 concert from the Total Music Meeting in Berlin, and I'm not sure why. the different philosophies regarding improvising within the band are pretty obvious (even alluded to in the liners), and there's evidently a lot of internal turmoil, all of which seemed to come to a head that night. it makes the performance add up to very little, to my ears anyway. it's a shame, because the personnel is amazing on paper. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kurt Gottschalk" Subject: fave things to play loud Date: 13 Aug 2001 19:41:23 +0000 Hey! welcome back, all of us! last night i bought my first amm record, their first as well, went home and (my cousin being away) played it really loud. freakin great! the last boredoms is also an excellent high-volume spin. clinton, brotzmann, shit -- i'm at a loss. kurt _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kurt Gottschalk" Subject: Fwd: Ursel Schlicht 8/25 at the Brecht Forum Date: 13 Aug 2001 19:41:52 +0000 >From: kurt gottschalk >Reply-To: kurtg@jumparts.org >To: ecstasymule@hotmail.com >CC: "Thomas Abbs" , "vonda brunsting" >, "Ed Chang" , "bruce lee >gallanter" , "tanya henderson" >, "Barry Lank" , >"okkyung lee" , "Neel Murgai" , >"Urania Nicole Mylonas" , "Thomas Andrew Rough" >, "Tommy Tom Tom Rough" , >"Len Siegfried" , "Steve Smith" >, "Stephanie Stone" , "Jay Patrick >Wilkins" >Subject: Ursel Schlicht 8/25 at the Brecht Forum >Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:18:34 -0700 (PDT) > >The Gig: Ursel Schlicht with the OMI Ensemble > >Pianist-composer-improviser Ursel Schlicht works in jazz, improvised and >experimental music including work with prepared piano. > >She will be presenting work developed with 15 composers, improvisers, >instrumentalists and vocalists during a two-week residency at OMI in the >Catskills. > >Ursel Schlicht with the OMI Ensemble >special guest: Steve Swell > >Ursel Schlicht -- piano, composition >Steve Swell - trombone > >OMI- ensemble: >Jeffrey Lependorf - shakuhachi >Kevin James - trombone >Constance Cooper - voice >Deian McBryde - voice >Motoko Shimizu - voice, toys, turntables >C. Bryan Rulon - electronics >Laura Andel - berimbau >Paula Diehl - percussion >Ravish Momin - tabla, percussion >Travis Di Ruzza - bass >Michael Evans - drums, theremin > >Saturday, August 25, 9 pm >at The Brecht Forum >122 W. 27th St. 10th floor > > > >_____________________________________________________________ >Get a free "Jump Mail" account. >Free e-mail for artists & art lovers! >Log on to http://JumpArts.org _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert Subject: Zorn's next major Project Date: 13 Aug 2001 21:47:45 +0200 Zorn-agains, He had Naked City, he had Masada. But what will he do in the future? Will he simulate african rythms without the use of percussion mixed with hard core bagpipes? Most likely. But, really, what would be a new and exiting project for John Zorn? Let's help the man. He's desperate ;-) Hey ... this actually has Zorn content. Is this OK ?! greetings, Rob @ risk np: Chris Speed - Deviantics - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Crump Subject: Re: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 13 Aug 2001 12:56:17 -0700 My list begins and ends with "We're An American Band" by Yo La Tengo. William Crump - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert Subject: alasnoaxislive Date: 13 Aug 2001 22:03:29 +0200 someone wrote: >>> about the album alasnoaxis, Is this better than the recent very weak >>> live performances? > At first I couldn't understand the praise for this album but now I have > to agree wholeheartedly. This is perfect ambient and creative music which > sometimes rocks and folks and whatevers. Don't know about the live > performances. > Is there a consencus on them not being so good ? greetings, Rob @ risk np: Ned Rothenberg - Kagami (Ghost Stories) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ryan Novak Subject: Re: loud Date: 13 Aug 2001 13:30:04 -0700 (PDT) >> you may discuss music now. > >Great! Let's start with: > > What are your favorite ten songs to play >really loud? Okay, 1. Blind Idiot God- "Thunderhead" 2. Blind Idiot God- "Hangtime" 3. C. Brotzmann Massaker- "Hymne" 4. Naked City- the whole Torture Garden thing, esp. "Osaka Bondage" 5. Massacre- "After" 6. P. Brotz Tentet- "Other Brothers" (live) 7. The Mermen- "And the Flowers They'll Bloom" 8. Doctor Nerve- "Dead Silence" 9. Zeni Geva and Steve Albini- "Kettle Lake" on into "Painwise" 10. P. Brotzmann- "Machine Gun" (only last because I usually have to turn it down at some point to feel like I won't get an eviction notice the next day.) That was fun. Not all famous songs, but these really are specifically the ones I now require to be very loud to truly enjoy. Mostly rock I'm noticing, I'll bet that will be the trend here though. ----RN __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 13 Aug 2001 16:26:59 -0400 Some songs, some whole albums... Slayer: anything from 'Reign in Blood' Napalm Death: "The World Keeps Turning" Carcass: anything from "Heartwork" Meshuggah: anything from 'Destroy Erase Improve' King Crimson: "Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Part 2" Messiaen: Turangalila-Symphony Chris Rouse: The Infernal Machine Butthole Surfers: various tunes, including "Butthole Surfer," "Lady Sniff," "Sweat Loaf," "Mexican Caravan," "Cherub," etc., etc. Motorhead: "Ace of Spades" Husker Du: "New Day Rising" Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 13 Aug 2001 13:48:19 -0700 self destruction, final : Nine Inch Nails (ten times) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 13 Aug 2001 14:26:15 -0700 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of William Crump > Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 12:56 PM > My list begins and ends with "We're An American Band" by Yo La Tengo. Yeah! -- I get the shivers at that moment when Ira Kaplan starts his guitar solo. Awesome stuff... [sigh] As the proud and happy father of a week-old baby girl, my volume-cranking days are over (though watching "Apocalypse Now" at really low volume, while putting the baby to sleep at 3 in the morning, seemed to work fine). But here's my list anyhow off the top of my head, guilty pleasures and all: - John Zorn, Spy vs Spy - Painkiller, Execution Ground (especially while playing Quake) - High Rise, Live (also Musica Transonic) - Underworld, dubnobasswithmyheadman - Superchunk, On the Mouth (the first half) - Built To Spill, "I Would Hurt A Fly" - Dinosaur Jr., Where You Been - Charles Mingus, Mingus at Antibes - Bernhard Gunter, Un Peu de Neige Salie (just kidding) I still can't get over Bill and Brotz. That news just made my afternoon. Later, Ben np: new order, "get ready" http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/ ICQ: 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: Blowin' with Brotz... Date: 13 Aug 2001 17:25:57 -0400 Congrats on the new arrival, Ben! And it's good to see the mention of the Clinton/Brotzmann connection here among sane heads on the Z-list. Over at rec.music.bluenote, it's inspired a lot of politically-inspired bashing and trolling that had nothing at all to do with the original post. Oh, the humanity. I have to admit that at first I thought it was an elaborate joke... SS - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Ricardo=20Campillo?= Subject: Re:What the your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 13 Aug 2001 23:36:03 +0200 (CEST) -Ornette Coleman"Free Jazz" -Pain Killer"Parish Of Tama" -Pain Killer"Dr.Phibes" -Nine Inch Nails"Closer" -Velvet Underground"Sister Ray" -Ennio Morricone"Man With A Harmonica" -Tom Waits"In The Colosseum" -Tool"Third Eye" -Nick Cave"Loverman" -Masada"Rokhev" _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger: Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente - http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: Miles Davis boxes update; new solo Ribot coming on Atlantic (Zorn content) Date: 13 Aug 2001 17:37:57 -0400 Since I know this was discussed on the list prior to its breakdowns, I thought I'd forward an update on the upcoming Miles Davis deluxe box sets... 'The Complete "In a Silent Way" Sessions' from Legacy has been moved from Oct. 16 to Oct. 23. 'The Last Word: The Warner Bros. Recordings (1985-91)' on Rhino has been moved from September 2001 to February 2002. Also, unrelated, newly arrived over the weekend and as yet unplayed: Marc Ribot: 'Saints' (Atlantic) Marc Ribot, solo guitar 1. "Saints" (Albert Ayler) 2. "Book of Heads #13" (John Zorn) 3. "I'm Getting Sentimental Over You" (Bassman/Washington) 4. "Empty" (Marc Ribot/Francois Lardeau) 5. "Happiness is a Warm Gun" (Lennon/McCartney) 6. "I'm Confessin' (That I Love You)" (Daughtery/Neiberg/Reynolds) 7. "Go Down Moses" (traditional, arr. Ribot) 8. "St. James Infirmary" (traditional, arr. Ribot) 9. "Somewhere" (Leonard Bernstein/Stephen Sondheim) 10. "Holy Holy Holy" (traditional, arr. Ribot) 11. "It Could Have Been Very Beautiful" (John Lurie) 12. "Witches and Devils" (Albert Ayler) Release date: September 18, 2001 Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: re: minutemen Date: 13 Aug 2001 16:43:11 -0500 (CDT) re: back up : yay! thanks mike and then, to give some useless info on the minutemen (continuing the interrupted thread): (a) "Ballot result" is also a good album; it's a bunch of live recordings, selected by fans (hence the ballots), and compiled by watt and hurley after the untimely death of boone (if i recall correctly). (b) useless trivia: "double nickles on the dime" refers to the 55 mile-per-hour speed limit on the santa monica freeway (i.e., the 10). maybe that's common knowledge, but i never knew it, despite having the album for years. (c) mike watt, george hurley and elliot sharp recorded an album together under the name 'bootstrappers' (i think that's the name). released on SST records. i'm not sure if it ever made it to cd. i remember it being not as good as i hoped. end transmission whit - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Vincent Kargatis / Anne Larson" Subject: Re: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 14 Aug 2001 00:50:34 +0300 Only two immediately pop into my head as notable head-bangers for me: Fishbone - "So Many Millions" (REALITY OF MY SURROUNDINGS) Tim Berne - "Hong Kong Sad Song/More Coffee" (FRACTURED FAIRY TALES) Of course there are more, but I'd hafta scan the spines, and I'm too lazy. -- Vincent Kargatis np: Paul Plimley & Lisle Ellis - "Kaleidoscope #2" (Kaleidoscopes) (np auto-generated by 'do something' winamp plug-in from www.oddsock.com) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Audino Subject: Re: Miles Davis boxes update; new solo Ribot coming on Atlantic (Zorn content) Date: 13 Aug 2001 16:52:12 -0500 (CDT) On Mon, 13 Aug 2001, Steve Smith wrote: > 'The Last Word: The Warner Bros. Recordings (1985-91)' on Rhino has been > moved from September 2001 to February 2002. Earlier talk about this set mentioned that some of the colaborations between Miles and Prince might be on this set. According to Prince none of their work together was ever finished and the inclusion of any of these tracks on the above box would be very much against his wishes. Paul psaudino@interaccess.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: minutemen Date: 13 Aug 2001 17:45:32 -0400 Hardly "useless" trivia. I knew what "Double Nickels" was, but I'd always wondered about the "Dime." (Of course, in Texas, the legal speed limit on parts of that very same "dime" - Interstate 10 - is now 70mph.) Bootstrappers did make it to CD (on SST subsidiary New Alliance, I think), and no, it wasn't what it might have been. Believe there might have been a second CD sans Sharp on a different label, eventually, but memory fails... (The one problem with the return of the Zornlist: I'm on deadline, but I keep stopping to chat!) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Whit Schonbein Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 5:43 PM (b) useless trivia: "double nickles on the dime" refers to the 55 mile-per-hour speed limit on the santa monica freeway (i.e., the 10). maybe that's common knowledge, but i never knew it, despite having the album for years. (c) mike watt, george hurley and elliot sharp recorded an album together under the name 'bootstrappers' (i think that's the name). released on SST records. i'm not sure if it ever made it to cd. i remember it being not as good as i hoped. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Vincent Kargatis / Anne Larson" Subject: Re: king ubu Date: 14 Aug 2001 00:53:19 +0300 > From: JonAbbey2@aol.com > Subject: king ubu > > In a message dated 8/13/01 3:15:08 PM, mjrosenstein@hotmail.com writes: > > << has anyone heard the new King Ubu Orchestra release on FMP? I've > been really fond of the first two releases, placing spare interplay and > abstract, nuanced timbres in the context of large ensemble free interaction. > >> > > yep, save your money. it documents a 1998 concert from the Total Music > Meeting in Berlin, and I'm not sure why. the different philosophies regarding > improvising within the band are pretty obvious (even alluded to in the > liners), and there's evidently a lot of internal turmoil, all of which seemed > to come to a head that night. it makes the performance add up to very little, > to my ears anyway. Jon, a clarification: are you coming from the point of view of liking the previous releases, as did Michael? -- v np: Lester Young - "Sunday" (Complete Aladdin Recordings) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim McLoughlin" Subject: re: new solo Ribot coming on Atlantic (Zorn content) Date: 13 Aug 2001 15:08:28 -0700 Hi folks --- Marc Ribot: 'Saints' (Atlantic) Marc Ribot, solo guitar ... 11. "It Could Have Been Very Beautiful" (John Lurie) --- This makes sense considering his solo performances this summer in the knit old office - lots of the same tunes. One thing that struck me at the shows I saw, and here, is the title of the John Lurie tune. I have a solo concert on CD from 1998 on which he introduces the song as "Blowjob". Just a working title I guess, maybe a bit too harsh for Atlantic and some of the los cubanos demographic?? Clinton might dig a brotz rendition of the original... Just moved to the east bay area, and caught the free Laswell/Zakir Hussein tabla beat science concert. I was a bit skeptical as they had never played lived together, but it came off quite well. Possibly the lack of any chord structures gave more room for error. Great trapset work by Karsh Kale (I was expecting him to play tabla/electronics), who laid down sick drumnbass grooves and locked up with zakir quite well. alas, my heart is still in NYC... Jim M np (loudly) - Praxis, Metatron - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ObviousEye@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #523 Date: 13 Aug 2001 18:29:10 EDT --part1_b9.1216e6a9.28a9aeb6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>"Sweat Loaf," This one is fabulous to crank up super-loud, mainly because the amazing intro. in fact, i think the intro deserves the "Greatest Album Opener Ever" title. ben --part1_b9.1216e6a9.28a9aeb6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>"Sweat Loaf,"

This one is fabulous to crank up super-loud, mainly because the amazing intro.
in fact, i think the intro deserves the "Greatest Album Opener Ever" title.


ben --part1_b9.1216e6a9.28a9aeb6_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mwoodwor Subject: edinburgh Date: 13 Aug 2001 19:43:14 -0300 Hey everyone - I'm heading to Edinburgh, Scotland for a couple of weeks - just wondering if anyone knows of any good music spaces/stores there that I should check out. BTW I will second a couple of people's rec.'s for the Roy Campbell Trio - Ethnic Stew and Brew on Delmark - fantastic album -it's great to hear Hamid Drake and William Parker deconstruct all of the tunes when Roy sets them lose! mike. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: king ubu Date: 13 Aug 2001 19:04:48 EDT In a message dated 8/13/01 5:53:22 PM, lartis@ath.forthnet.gr writes: << are you coming from the point of view of liking the previous releases, as did Michael? >> yeah, I really liked Binaurality. never heard the other one, how's that compare? Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fate@telepath.com (Jon Mooneyham) Subject: Re: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 13 Aug 2001 18:47:36 -0500 Top of the head: Swans - _Cop_ (especially "Half Life") Maryanne Amacher - _Sound Characters_ [yow!] Frank Zappa - "Redunzl" from _Studio Tan_ Idiot Flesh - "Teen Devil Worshipper" Hal Russell/NRG Ensemble - "Oh Well" Carla Bley - "Blunt Object" from _Live!_ Squarepusher - "My Red Hot Car" 12" Edwin Hawkins Singers - "Oh Happy Day" Amon Tobin - "Sordid" Blackalicious - _Nia_ -Jon M. _____________________ FATE, Discorporated Graphic Design 405.524.2003 fate@telepath.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath Subject: RE: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 13 Aug 2001 18:54:07 -0500 Actually just played a couple of these really loud yesterday: Dissecting Table - "Birth" (Into the Light) Dire Straits - "Telegraph Road" (Love Over Gold) Michael Gibbs - "Hospital Inferno" (Hard Boiled Soundtrack) King Crimson - "Providence" (The Great Deceiver) Keiji Haino - I Said, This is the Son of Nihilism Naked City - Leng Tch'e Husker Du - Candy Apple Grey (whole album) Laurie Anderson - Big Science (whole album) John Oswald - Net (Plunderphonics) Krysztof Penderecki - Cello Concerto No. 2 Craig M. Rath H: fripp@mn.mediaone.net W: rathc@questarweb.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew Mitchell" Subject: RE: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 13 Aug 2001 20:16:28 -0400 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Lessee, Tony Williams Lifetime - 'Vuelta Abajo' Live/Evil or Dark Magus Fushitsusha Merzbow Xenakis Cardiacs - Sing to God and Guns Ruins Melt Banana Napalm Death - Twist the Knife (Slowly) 5 uu's - Comeuppance ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Lessee,
 
Tony Williams Lifetime - 'Vuelta Abajo'
Live/Evil or Dark Magus
Fushitsusha
Merzbow
Xenakis
Cardiacs - Sing to God and Guns
Ruins
Melt Banana
Napalm Death - Twist the Knife (Slowly)
5 uu's - Comeuppance
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mathieu Belanger Subject: Re: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 13 Aug 2001 22:56:49 -0400 Hello, >What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Obviously in no particular order... - The Afghan Whigs - "Crime Scene Part One", "Brother Woodrow, Closing Prayer" and a few others. - godspeed you black emperor! - _Slow Riot for New Zero Kanada EP_, "3rd Part", "12-28-99" and "John Hughes" (the second section is especially good a high volume). - Fly Pan Am - live versions of "Bibi a Nice, 1921" (the studio version is not as powerful) - a silver mt. zion - "broken chords can sing a little" - The Cure - "From the Edge of the Deep Green Sea" - Francisco Lopez - _Untitled #104_ - AMM - _The Inexhaustible Document_ (actually it's only to hear something!) - Neil Young - "I'm the Ocean", "Throw Your Hatred Down" and others - Einsturzende Neubauten - "HEADCLEANER" That's what I can think at the moment... Tschuss, Mathieu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given Subject: Re: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 13 Aug 2001 20:37:08 -0700 Well, I don't really choose to listen to an album based on a particular songs that often these days, and I fond my desire for loud decreases as I age, but there are things that require taking chances with the lease and annoying my wife: London Jazz Composers Orchestra - any of them. Hearing the full orchestra kick in after a small group passage is worth getting in shit from the landlord. Solo bass albums (Joelle Leandre works best really loud, as does Peter Kowald, but any) Mingus - any The Who Live at Leeds Elvis C. - This Year's Model any of the Die Like a Dog albums zydeco Michel Doneda's Anatomie des Clefs Schlippenbach Trio ---------------- Someone (Kurt Gottschalk?) mentioned getting his first AMM disc and playing it really loud. They are one I really love at low volumes, so that the music becomes part of the atmosphere, rather than creating a new one. Dan Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 14 Aug 2001 20:11:01 -0700 > > On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 10:48:34 -0700 (PDT) m. rizzi wrote: >> >> Thanks for being patient. It's been a rough >> summer for the zorn-list software. Hopefully, >> we've added enough checks to prevent errant >> ISP's from getting into an endless loop with >> the mailing list. >> >> If you only see one copy of this message, >> the consider the mailing list up and running >> again. woo hoo. >> >> you may discuss music now. > > Great! Let's start with: > > What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? > > Patrice. > > - > 1. "What is Hip?" -- Tower Of Power 2. ""Black Rock" -- James Blood Ulmer 3. "Three Hours Past Midnight" -- Johnny Guitar Watson 4. "The Story of My Life" -- Guitar Slim 5. SPILLANE (side 10 ) -- Zorn 6. "Red Rose" -- Blasters 7. "White Girl" -- X 8. middle mvt of Charles ves 4th Symphony, Tilson-Thomas recording 9. "Ran Kan Kan"-- Tito Puente 10. any James Brown record, just about skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Teichman Subject: Re: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 13 Aug 2001 23:44:24 -0400 this is fun Elvis Costello -- Black and White World Ginger Baker -- Worlds Within Worlds Miranda Sex Garden -- Are You The One Tim Buckley -- Look at the Fool Brotz -- Nipples Side 1 Mahavishnu Orchestra -- Dream (The Trident version, not the live one) Zappa -- Dirty Love Don Byron -- Mango Meat Elliott Sharp -- Rails PJ Harvey -- Legs - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: New music on Mappings, week of August 14, 2001 Date: 13 Aug 2001 23:03:11 -0500 Hi y'all, This week on Mappings , you'll hear music for brass and electronics by Martin Bartlett, JA Deane, Stuart Dempster, Tom Heasley, George E Lewis, Luigi Nono, and Giancarlo Schiaffini. The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0800 GMT) and will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program (featuring music by Earle Brown) is still available in the Mappings archive , where you can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998. Hope you tune in to the program. Bests, Herb -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, Texas 76147 817 377-2983 herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #523 Date: 14 Aug 2001 00:45:31 -0500 Hi gang, I'm glad the list is back up and all, but it would be a big help to me, and probably some of the other people who get the list in digest mode, if those of you who use Web browsers rather than e-mail programs to send and receive your e-mail would please, please, please, not send HTML formatted messages. Every message sent this way comes through doubled in digest; once in plaintext and then in a very ugly plaintext version of the HTML coding of the same thing like the message below. All of the various browsers that folks use to send e-mail have options/preferences to turn this function off, and it would make the digest a lot easier to read. Thanks. Bests, Herb > >Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:57:07 EDT >From: IOUaLive1@aol.com >Subject: Re: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? > >- --part1_15.18c9f5df.28a97d03_boundary >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >In a message dated 8/13/2001 2:35:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >proussel@ichips.intel.com writes: > > > > Great! Let's start with: > > > > What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? > >Any music that I really, really like ... I would prefer to listen to loud. >Having said that, lately I've been cranking up: >Some live Wayne Krantz recordings that I have ..... >the CD "Seperation Anxieties" by a great band called 12 Rods, which was >produced, recorded, and mixed by Todd Rundgren ..... >the Squarepusher song "My Red Hot Car" from his latest .... > >About 8 or 9 years ago when i was in my late teens, i used to LOVE to crank >up the Yes CD "90125", particularly the tracks "Changes" and "Owner of a >Lonely Heart". Those guitar power chords sound especially good at high >decibels. >The Brand X CD "X Communication" also sounds really good loud. > >- -Jody > >- --part1_15.18c9f5df.28a97d03_boundary >Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >In a message dated >8/13/2001 2:35:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >
proussel@ichips.intel.com writes: >
>
>
Great! Let's >start with: >
    >
   What are your favorite ten songs to play >really loud?FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
>
FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> >
Any music that I really, really like ... I would prefer to >listen to loud.   >
Having said that, lately I've been cranking up:   >
Some live Wayne Krantz recordings that I have ..... >
the CD "Seperation Anxieties" by a great band called 12 Rods, which was >
produced, recorded, and mixed by Todd Rundgren .....   >
the Squarepusher song "My Red Hot Car" from his latest .... >
>
About 8 or 9 years ago when i was in my late teens, i used to >LOVE to crank >
up the Yes CD "90125", particularly the tracks "Changes" and "Owner of a >
Lonely Heart".  Those guitar power chords sound especially >good at high >
decibels. >
The Brand X CD "X Communication" also sounds really good loud. >
>
-Jody > >- --part1_15.18c9f5df.28a97d03_boundary-- > >- - > >------------------------------ > -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, Texas 76147 817 377-2983 herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@browbeat.com (m. rizzi) Subject: Re: Blowin' with Brotz... Date: 13 Aug 2001 23:13:41 -0700 (PDT) >I have to admit that at first I thought it was an elaborate joke... It still could be...anyone have an corroborating info? mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Nickelsdorf 2001 Date: 14 Aug 2001 09:08:29 +0200 Hi folks, nice to see the list up again! This review is a little bit dated, but anyway... This year´s Nickelsdorf festival had horrible weather but very good music. My highlight of the first day was a trio by Marilyn Crispell, Barry Guy and Raymond Strid: a really perfect set of improvised music. Before we had something of an illbient performance with VJ by a danish ensemble Aeter w/ vocalist Gry Bagoien and special guest Olaf Rupp. A little bit lengthy but still interesting. Saturday´s climax was surely a solo performance by John Butcher. His musical visions and technique are astonishing. Another fine concert was a trio by Carlos Zingaro, Joelle Leandre and Paul Lovens: chamber jazz at it´s best. The evening culminated in a short but heavy hiphop performance by Dälek from New Jersey - advisible! The last day had a reed trio Evan Parker, Hans Koch and John Butcher - not surprising but nothing could go wrong with these fantastic musicians. A really wild thing was Konk Pack w/ Shelley Hirsch. Nice to see Roger Turner playing, disturbing and repairing his drumset at the same time. The quiet and visionary performance of Franz Hautzinger, Werner Dafeldecker, John Tilbury and Sachiko M. was misplaced after midnight where attention isn´t as high as needed. The mastership of Tilbury fits perfect in this environment. The last and main performance was Barry Guy´s New Orchestra: this ten piece group played a suite of seven parts with more density and power compared with former LJCO. The arrangements are written in particular for these musicians (Mats Gustafsson, Hannes Bauer, Paul Lytton etc.). Supplementary were two afternoon concerts at Kleylehof, an old farm site reconstructed and used as an artist residence. The first one was Ticklish with visuals and the second two solos by Joelle Leandre and Shelley Hirsch and both were very successful. Their good website at www.konfrontationen.at has more infos and had a live stream during the concerts. Andreas _________________________________________________________________ Downloaden Sie MSN Explorer kostenlos unter http://explorer.msn.de/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Vuilleumier=2C_St=E9phane=22?= Subject: RE: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 14 Aug 2001 08:57:46 +0200 I was surprised to realize that I don't listen to recent stuff loud... but it's not depressing to look back! 1978-81 (for me) vintage killers that aged well: Modern Dance - Pere Ubu Tropical Hot Dog Night - Captain Beefheart I Hate America - The Work Forces of Victory - Linton Kwesi Johnson Any Half Japanese=20 "Let Them Eat Jellybeans" sampler LP less but still old stuff: Satisfaction - Residents + Devo versions Car Bomb - Negativland Television Drug of a Nation - Beatnigs/Sherwood OnU remix She Looks Like You - Arto Lindsay -----Original Message----- >10. Pita "Get Out" CD (boy, that one really alienates the loved ones)=20 this one would be my only recentish one but calling it songs, well... St=E9phane =20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cameron Wood" Subject: Re: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 14 Aug 2001 00:46:50 -0700 This is the best I can come up with at the moment. What's the bet I think of another great track the moment I hit send. "Lonely" - Rollins Band "The Godfather" - Fantomas "Come To Daddy" - Aphex Twin "Die Tote Aus Der Theme" - Peter Thomas Sound Orchestr (I think that's what it's called, it's the second song on Film Musik) "Another Body Murdered" - FNM & Boo Yaa T.R.I.B.E. "Easy Muffin" - Amon Tobin "Simply Beautiful" - Fantomas Anything off of the Merzbox Sampler "Sycamore Trees" - Angelo Badalamenti & Jimmy Scott "Help The Aged" - Ali G & Jarvis Cocker (mp3) :) And I gotta say "Vocab" by the Fugees. Remember the Fugees? Yep, my friend played that song real loud on the weekend. Haven't heard them since I was in primary school! Later, Cameron. Do you hate clowns? Get Free Email & Free Websites at http://www.ihateclowns.com Buy anti-clown mugs, hats, mousepads, boxers, etc : http://store.ihateclowns.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Millie Gorgon" Subject: last Easter Masada Date: 14 Aug 2001 07:45:39 -0000 Howdy folks, Could anyone perhaps help me track down the set list for Masada's Easter Eve performance in Minneapolis last April. I was there, but was ignorant as to the tune titles. nice n' loud -- anything by u.s. maple, ow ow ow ________________________________________________________ The Best News Source On The Web - http://www.disinfo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Back online??? Date: 14 Aug 2001 10:16:32 +0200 Hey boys & girls... Wow! I can't believe it - the list is back... I've been terribly missing all your mails... Here's some of the stuff still rocking my bedroom that I bought while the list was down: Mr. Bungle, Disco Volante Yes, the first time I heard it! And it is great. Also made me listen again to their mind-blowing debut album. (And I ordered California, too.) Ustad Alla Rakha & Zakir Hussain, Tabla Duet I love the sound of the tabla, and it sounds great on this one! Kazue Sawai Koto Ensemble, Live in Bremen '83 Brought back very fond memories of one of the best live concerts I have ever attended. Ennio Morricone, Mondo Morricone Some great stuff on this one. Amon Tobin, Bricolage I used to own this CD before, but it got stolen... Anyhow: nice electronic stuff. I'm still waiting for some of your recommendations to arrive in my mailbox: Fela Kuti, Original Sufferhead Fantomas, The Director's Cut Tabla Beat Science, Beat Matrix patRice np: Talvin Singh, OK nr: Yasunari Kawabata, Palm-Of-The Hand Stories - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Re: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 14 Aug 2001 11:36:37 +0200 "Patrice L. Roussel" wrote: > Great! Let's start with: > > What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? > > I can't think of actual songs, just album formats... Naked City, Torture Garden Painkiller, (all of their CDs) Pantera, Far Beyond Driven The Cure, Pornography Iron Maiden, (everything from 1982 up to about 1992) Billy Idol, (some of the tracks off the Best Of CD) The Melvins, (all of their CDs that I have) Marc Almond, Live At Royal Albert Hall The Young Gods, TYG Probably lots more that I can't think of right now... (I'm at the office...) patRice - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Re: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 14 Aug 2001 11:31:27 +0200 Benito Vergara wrote: > [sigh] As the proud and happy father of a week-old baby girl, my > volume-cranking days are over Hey Benito... Don't make the same mistake most parents make! It's not true that you can't play loud music even when a baby is sleeping next door / upstairs. It only wakes them up once they're used to "too much" silence. If you expose them to music at a loud-ish level from the very beginning, they easily get used to it. Of course I don't mean ear-splitting volumes... ;-) But all my god-children are used to it - and they usually wake up when the music stops and ask "what's wrong?"... NO JOKE! (I used to even pracitce the drums while they were sleeping upstairs!!!) patRice - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #523 (HTML in Zorn-list postings) Date: 14 Aug 2001 06:12:00 EDT --part1_12d.2faea08.28aa5370_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/14/2001 1:59:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, herb@eskimo.com writes: > > I'm glad the list is back up and all, but it would be a big help to > me, and probably some of the other people who get the list in digest > mode, if those of you who use Web browsers rather than e-mail > programs to send and receive your e-mail would please, please, > please, not send HTML formatted messages. > > Every message sent this way comes through doubled in digest; once in > plaintext and then in a very ugly plaintext version of the HTML > coding of the same thing like the message below. All of the various > browsers that folks use to send e-mail have options/preferences to > turn this function off, and it would make the digest a lot easier to > read. ...... I noticed you used my posting as your example ... but notice that i DON'T use a web based email program, but AOL. There is no setting to turn on or off html in AOL email, (i just double checked on that) and I have never noticed a problem before or had a complaint ... in fact, when i read my own postings to the Zorn list, they dont look like what you copied in your email. Has anyone else noticed this problem with Postings to the Zorn list? (None of the postings I've seen from anyone lately look like what you described) Perhaps the problem is on your end ?? Or something to do with the list-server? Just a thought .. I'm no expert ... But i do feel really, really bad about the unjust pain caused to your eyes. :-) -Jody --part1_12d.2faea08.28aa5370_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/14/2001 1:59:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
herb@eskimo.com writes:


I'm glad the list is back up and all, but it would be a big help to
me, and probably some of the other people who get the list in digest
mode, if those of you who use Web browsers rather than e-mail
programs to send and receive your e-mail would please, please,
please, not send HTML formatted messages.

Every message sent this way comes through doubled in digest; once in
plaintext and then in a very ugly plaintext version of the HTML
coding of the same thing like the message below. All of the various
browsers that folks use to send e-mail have options/preferences to
turn this function off, and it would make the digest a lot easier to
read.
...... I noticed you used my posting as your example ... but notice that i
DON'T use a web based email program, but AOL.
There is no setting to turn on or off html in AOL email, (i just double
checked on that) and I have never noticed a problem before or had a complaint
... in fact, when i read my own postings to the Zorn list, they dont look
like what you copied in your email.

Has anyone else noticed this problem with Postings to the Zorn list?  (None
of the postings I've seen from anyone lately look like what you described)

Perhaps the problem is on your end ??  Or something to do with the
list-server?  Just a thought .. I'm no expert ...  But i do feel really,
really bad about the unjust pain caused to your eyes.  :-)


-Jody --part1_12d.2faea08.28aa5370_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Theo Klaase Subject: anyone remeber Tim "Herb" Alexander? Date: 14 Aug 2001 03:40:47 -0700 (PDT) --0-2087846736-997785647=:46214 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Tim is currently the drummer for an amazing group called "Attention Deficit" featuring Alex Skolnick on guitars and Michael Manring on bass... Manring is amazing... He makes Claypool look like he needs to practice, sometimes. The reason I mention the band on this list is because the music is a lot like Massacre with Frith and Laswell. Much of it is improvised, especially on the first album, with some raw editing that's fun and uncompromising. I urge everyone who likes Primus and Frith/Laswell stuff to check out the albums... The first album is the better of the two, although both have really strong moments... -Theo Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $0.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger. --0-2087846736-997785647=:46214 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Tim is currently the drummer for an amazing group called "Attention Deficit" featuring Alex Skolnick on guitars and Michael Manring on bass... Manring is amazing... He makes Claypool look like he needs to practice, sometimes.  The reason I mention the band on this list is because the music is a lot like Massacre with Frith and Laswell.  Much of it is improvised, especially on the first album, with some raw editing that's fun and uncompromising.  I urge everyone who likes Primus and Frith/Laswell stuff to check out the albums...

The first album is the better of the two, although both have really strong moments...

-Theo 


Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $0.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger. --0-2087846736-997785647=:46214-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: RE: What are your favorite songs to play loud Date: 14 Aug 2001 06:52:17 -0400 > > What are your favorite songs to play really loud? Great to have the list back! Crimson, part 1 of Lark's Tongue in Aspic and Starless Stockhausen, Hymnen, especially part 1 (with the water colors) Francisco Lopez recent collab with Amy Denio Bungle, most of the first album, but especially Girls of Porn and Stubb a dub Xenakis, Legende d'Eer Ground Zero, practically anything, but especially Null & Void and Consume Red Steve Tibbetts, Test (this is my second post, so my apologies if this comes through twice -- still testing to make sure my id is recognized) -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: What are your favorite songs to play loud Date: 14 Aug 2001 07:48:54 -0400 Here's my pick 1. ADAM ANT: wonderful (the song) 2. DAVID BOWIE: hallo spaceboy (Outside album) 3. JULEE CRUISE: into the night (that catastrophic part in the middle of the song scared the heck out of me the first time, and it still does) 4. NEW ORDER: blue monday 5. GODFLESH: christbait rising 6. ENNIO MORRICONE: the return of ringo 7. THE SMITHS: i know it's over 8. MORRISSEY: nobody loves us 9. PAINKILLER: dr. phibes (someone mentioned this song, and it's totally true) 10. NAKED CITY: torture garden CD Can I go on? ... 11. PLACEBO: every you every me 12. PUNGENT STENCH: viva la muerte 13. SUEDE: the asphalt world (I think this is the song that I enjoy more listening to out loud) 14. ANGELO BADALAMENTI: red bats with teeth (the song that got me into frenetic saxophone jazz ... and eventually led me to ZORN) That's it. Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. DEPECHE MODE: only when i lose myself (single pt. 2, GUS GUS remixes) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Taylor McLaren Subject: Crankin' HTML. Date: 14 Aug 2001 07:44:48 -0400 MEEP! Herb Levy wrote: >All of the various >browsers that folks use to send e-mail have options/preferences to >turn this function off, and it would make the digest a lot easier to >read. For what it's worth, a friend of mine just went through this nightmare/discussion on a Pentax discussion list, and apparently there is no way of disabling HTML mail with the latest version of the AOL software; AOL is aware of this, and they have no plans to change things. This makes me that much happier to be using a four-year-old build of Eudora that doesn't pass all of that HTML crap along to me. As for gooey loudness, here a couple of off-the-top-of-the-head favourites: - Ramones, _Loco Live_ (my fondest memory of high school); - Caspar Brotzmann, _Mute Massaker_ (what Hendrix does for older folks, this does for me); - Melvins, all sorts of stuff ("Lovely Butterfly", "amazon", etc.); - Institute of Technology, "King of Rock" (yes, the Run-DMC cover); - Public Enemy, _Muse Sick-n-Hour Mess Age_; - Muslimgauze, "Android Cleaver" (also "Amahar" from the second album with the Rootsman); - PJ Harvey, much of the last three albums; - Techno Animal, _Radio Hades_ (esp. "Intercranial"); - Blondie, "Call Me"; - the Archie Shepp half of _New Thing at Newport_; - Kevin Martin's _Collision Course_ compilation... I'm going to stop now, since I just noticed that I'm going to be late for work. Dammit. Welcome back, list. -me - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Rosenstein" Subject: Re: king ubu Date: 14 Aug 2001 08:26:24 -0400 I will have to go back to listen to the first one ("Music is music is...") again since it has been awhile, but I certainly remember it as being one of the first recordings I heard that took a microscopic approach to gestural improvisation. I had certainly been listening to AMM at that point, but this seemed like a very different way of improvisational interaction. Other recordings that served to open my ears to this type of improv include: Polwechsel - The first release on Random Acoustics Loose music (Burkhard Stangl) - also on Random Acoustics and including a phenomenal piece for Radu Malfatti called "Konzert für posaune und 22 instruments" Loos (Peter van Bergen's group and no relation to the group above) - The first release "Fundamental" (GeestGronden) which is quite a bit more austere that the more recent Okka release. News from the shed (Butcher/Russell/Durrant/Malfatti/Lovens) - Certainly a bit more conversational than the recordings above, but still focussed on tiny gestures. I'm sure I'm forgetting a few, but these certainly caught my ear in the late 80s-mid 90s. Michael Rosenstein michaelr@world.std.com >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:04:48 EDT >From: JonAbbey2@aol.com >Subject: Re: king ubu > >In a message dated 8/13/01 5:53:22 PM, lartis@ath.forthnet.gr writes: > ><< are you coming from the point of view of liking the > >previous releases, as did Michael? >> > >yeah, I really liked Binaurality. never heard the other one, how's that >compare? > >Jon >www.erstwhilerecords.com > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: RE: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? Date: 14 Aug 2001 08:52:32 -0400 Interesting thread! For a good dose of catharsis, I prescribe... Wire "Former Airline" Stooges "1970" "The 1812 Overture" Ground Zero "Those Were the Days" Uz Jsme Doma "Koroze" Black Flag "Rise Above" Flipper "Sex Bomb" Spike Jones "Hawaiian War Chant" Ray Charles (any of the early ABC stuff) John Cage "Williams Mix" Wu-Tang Clan "Bring da Ruckus" Best, Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: Sweat Loaf Date: 14 Aug 2001 08:54:48 -0400 The aforementioned intro to "Sweat Loaf" by the Butthole Surfers, for those uninitiated: music: cheesy orchestral synth patch slowly fades in... child's voice: "Daddy?" man's voice: "Yes, son?" child's voice: "What does regret mean?" man's voice: "Well, son, a funny thing about regret is, it's better to regret something ya have done, then to regret something ya haven't done. And by the way, if you see your Mom this weekend, would you be sure and tell her... [yells] SATAN!!!" power chords and tribal drums: "BUHN! BUH-DA-DAHNNNNNN! BUHN! BUH-DA-DAHNNNNNN!" (to the tune of Black Sabbath's "Sweet Leaf," only faster and dumber)... continue as necessary. Yeah, kinda throws all the latter day Surfers recordings into a sorry light. Too bad King forgot to play any drums on the upcoming album 'Weird Revolution.' It's about 90% of what was going to be released a few years back on Capitol as 'After the Astronaut' or 'The Last Astronaut,' depending on who you ask, along with a couple of newer tracks. It's all pretty shaky trip-hop and sample-a-delic stuff, with a slight patina of Paul's guitar noise and a lot of sillier-than-usual rambling from Gibby. Funkier than the old Jackofficers project, though - it's kinda like they really, really wanted to recapture the hit they had with "Pepper" from the last album. Pretty depressing, though I've still been listening to the advance CD a lot in pure sad wonder. But the first two EPs on Alternative Tentacles (never released on CD), the first three albums on Touch and Go (now on Latino Bugger Veil), and most of the fourth album as well - now THAT's pure Texas dementia. I think I read somewhere that Paul really hates those albums and thinks they prove the band couldn't play. I thought that had been the point... And the live shows were dangerous like nothing I'd seen before or since. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of ObviousEye@aol.com Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 6:29 PM >>"Sweat Loaf," This one is fabulous to crank up super-loud, mainly because the amazing intro. in fact, i think the intro deserves the "Greatest Album Opener Ever" title. > deserves the "Greatest Album Opener Ever" title. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: smokey@laplaza.org Subject: ANGELO BADALAMENTI Date: 14 Aug 2001 07:29:10 -0600 ANGELO BADALAMENTI What a guy, particularly when teamed with David Lynch. I've got the 2 Twin Peaks, TV and movie soundtracks, the two Julie Cruise albums, Floating into the Night and The Voice of Love, and a WB video of the Industrial Suite, a wonderfully scary stage piece featuring a lot of music and imagery from the Twin Peaks stuff, but with it's own "story". Also called "The Dream of the Broken-Hearted", it opens with a very sad phone conversation between Nicolas Cage and Laura Dern, later repeated word for word by the biggest little man, Michael Anderson... if you get a chance, check it out - the original performance must have been an experience. But what else of Angelo B should I be checking out? Anything else of note with Mr Lynch? The other things I've heard are mostly made-to-order soundtracks, good, but not close... Glad the list is back Dan in Taos - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ricardo Reis Subject: Lisbon Date: 14 Aug 2001 14:43:18 +0100 (WET DST) Any of you went to the jazz in august in Lisbon? could you tell how it was? thanx Ricardo Reis "Non Serviam" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: ANGELO BADALAMENTI Date: 14 Aug 2001 10:03:54 -0400 As far as Badalamenti's work with Lynch, the soundtrack to 'Wild at Heart' is worth having - it's not all Badalamenti, but there's some good material there, both in his stuff and the material by others. I always loved the segue from the opening orchestral work, Richard Strauss's 'Im Abendrot,' to thrash metal band Powermad's "Slaughterhouse." I also like having Chris Issak's "Wicked Game" without having to own a Chris Issak album, and Nicholas Cage's Elvis covers are certainly worth hearing. You also get Them's "Baby Please Don't Go" and Gene Vincent's "Be-Bop a Lula." And of course, 'Wild at Heart' was where Cage and Laura Dern were first paired in the material that was reprised in Industrial Symphony No. 1, which is a damned creepy piece of work. Finally, there's a darker, smokier version of "Up in Flames" (included on Julee Cruise's 'The Voice of Love' and in the Industrial Symphony) sung by Koko Taylor. Badalamenti was always an important orchestrator and arranger (who worked with, among others, Liza Minelli, Dusty Springfield, and the Pet Shop Boys). After the success of 'Twin Peaks,' several people tapped him to grab a touch of that Lynchian weirdness. Two collaborations stand out: I've not heard either of these, but I read good things about his album with singer Tim Booth from the British alt-pop band James, 'Booth and the Bad Angel.' And I can only imagine that there must be some wonderful stuff on his album with Marianne Faithful, 'Secret Life.' More obviously tied to 'Twin Peaks,' there's also an Anthrax track, "Black Lodge," which features Badalamenti as orchestrator, arranger and keyboardist. And Badalamenti has written plenty of scores that aren't anything like his 'Twin Peaks' work. One of these, 'City of Lost Children,' is especially beautiful and well suited to the film. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: parry@macconnect.com Subject: Music for loudness Date: 14 Aug 2001 10:52:10 +400 The Zulus (late, lamented Boston rock band) Frank Black and the Catholics "Pistolero" (featuring Rich Gilbert, the guitarist from the Zulus) Harold Melvin & the Bluenotes - the greatest-hits album w/ "The Love I Lost" and their curious version of "Cabaret" Eric Dolphy, "Fire Waltz" Sex Mob, "Din of Inequity" NRBQ, any of the rockers but esp. "Don't Knock on My Door," "Little Floater," "Wild Weekend" and "Ain't It All Right" Yo La Tengo, "Camp Yo La Tengo" (and pretty much any of their more recent albums, but that's the recent favorite) Replacements (most of their catalogue, but esp. a bootleg I have of their last-ever show) Mangu "Calle Luna Calle Sol" (Latin hip-hop record w/ fantastic bass tones, produced by Joe Galdo and featuring guests Betty Wright and Johnny Pacheco) Takako Minekawa "Fun 9" Parry Gettelman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Crump Subject: Re: Blowin' with Brotz... Date: 14 Aug 2001 08:22:27 -0700 "m. rizzi" wrote: > >I have to admit that at first I thought it was an elaborate joke... > > It still could be...anyone have an corroborating info? > > mike > Hmm, well, the Oxford American is not particularly known for practical jokes, or for having much of a sense of humor at all. The interview was co-conducted by editor Marc Smirnoff himself, not passed along as "guess what I heard thirdhand." So I'm willing to take it at face value. The website is www.oxfordamericanmag.com, but unfortunately, the interview is not posted on the website. Oh yeah, another one to play at ear-bleeding volume... Now I Got Worry by the Jon Spencer Blues Explosion. Bellbottoms! William - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Westergaard" Subject: RE: Blowin' with Brotz... Date: 14 Aug 2001 11:27:10 -0400 a friend here at work (all music guide) bought a copy yesterday. I've seen it with my own eyes, and it appears to be real. The interview is quite short, and is only about music he likes and shows he's seen. Besides Brotzmann, he mentions B.B. King and Stan Getz's brazilian stuff, a Ray Charles show he saw in 1967, and that he couldn't live without "the Gentle Side of John Coltrane". oh yeah, Bill and Hillary's song is "My one and only Love" (tee-hee) sean -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of William Crump Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 11:22 AM "m. rizzi" wrote: > >I have to admit that at first I thought it was an elaborate joke... > > It still could be...anyone have an corroborating info? > > mike > Hmm, well, the Oxford American is not particularly known for practical jokes, or for having much of a sense of humor at all. The interview was co-conducted by editor Marc Smirnoff himself, not passed along as "guess what I heard thirdhand." So I'm willing to take it at face value. The website is www.oxfordamericanmag.com, but unfortunately, the interview is not posted on the website. Oh yeah, another one to play at ear-bleeding volume... Now I Got Worry by the Jon Spencer Blues Explosion. Bellbottoms! William - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Sweat Loaf Date: 14 Aug 2001 11:55:20 -0400 >And the live shows were dangerous like nothing I'd seen before or >since. My two dangerous shows were: 1. Faust's North American debut where one band member was swinging a chainsaw very close to audience members (& yes it was real because he'd been cutting something). 2. Anybody remember Psychodrama? Their performance at the Destroy All Music festival featured one member in nothing but a diaper while the other broke LPs in half and then zipped them at the audience which could have easily "put somebody's eye out" among other things. Of course Steve probably means psychically/mentally dangerous and is probably right there. Faust was mostly tedious and Psychodrama just silly. Lang - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brennansf@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #525--(HTML in Zorn-list postings) Date: 14 Aug 2001 12:12:08 EDT All the digests I receive have the same problem--often half of the postings are duplicated in this way. It is annoying after a while. Jerry B. ...... I noticed you used my posting as your example ... but notice that i DON'T use a web based email program, but AOL. There is no setting to turn on or off html in AOL email, (i just double checked on that) and I have never noticed a problem before or had a complaint ... in fact, when i read my own postings to the Zorn list, they dont look like what you copied in your email. < Subject: RE: ANGELO BADALAMENTI Date: 14 Aug 2001 12:06:35 -0400 BADALAMENTI's work with LYNCH is great. I have most of their works: - the 2 TWIN PEAKS albums (TV and movie soundtracks) - the 2 JULEE CRUISE albums - Wild at Heart - Lost Highway (Not all Badalamenti, but his songs are excellnet, and the other non-BADALAMENTI songs are pretty good if you like the industrial RAMMSTEIN, NIN thing) - Blue Velvet (his first score for a Lynch movie is excellent) - The UNTIL THE END OF THE WORLD soundtrack (Wim Wnders' film) has one Julee Cruise track produced by the Lynch/Badalamenti team. It's a cover of the Elvis song Summer Kisses, Winter Tears. It's very good and the rest of the album is enjoyable too. I don't have THE STRAIGHT STORY soundtrack, but I saw the movie and the music is very beautiful, not creepy, but it is very great. I have the TIM BOOTH/BADALEMTNI collaboration, and although I think it's pretty good, it's obviously a choice for JAMES fans, not BADALAMENTI's. I'm glad I am both, and when I heard the CD I loved it, but I've read that Badalamenti's fans don't think of it as necessary. I have not heard Badalamenti's scores for non-Lynch films, although I remember seeing the film COUSINS (Ted Danson, Isabella Rossellini) and the main theme (played with different instruments throughout the movie (kind of like the Blue Velvet theme)) was donde by Badalamenti and was excellent. Don't know if a soundtrack exists. Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. Depeche Mode: I Feel Loved (single) PS. Talking about the WILD AT HEART soundtrack, there are two excellent songs by RUBBER CITY, David Slusser's band (he also has a great CD on Tzadik: Delight at the End of the Tunnel). I wonder when is he going to release a RUBBER CITY CD. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@browbeat.com (m. rizzi) Subject: Re: Crankin' HTML. Date: 14 Aug 2001 08:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Taylor McLaren, demi-God and Icon sez of HTML email: > >For what it's worth, a friend of mine just went through this >nightmare/discussion on a Pentax discussion list, and apparently there is >no way of disabling HTML mail with the latest version of the AOL software; Sadly, it appears that this is true. >AOL is aware of this, and they have no plans to change things. This makes It is terribly arrogant of AOL to be taking this stance, ignoring Internet standards. Yet another reason to hate them more than Microsoft. Some list members have rolled back to a previous version of the AOL software to avoid this problem. mike >me that much happier to be using a four-year-old build of Eudora that >doesn't pass all of that HTML crap along to me. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ben Holmes Subject: Cantor Date: 14 Aug 2001 12:23:22 -0400 (EDT) Hi - I've been following the Zornlist for a while but this is my first post - I remember reading something posted to the list a while ago about a cantor in a black orthodox synagogue in Newark, which talked a little bit about the cantor's unique style. Does anyone know offhand either the name of the cantor or the name of the synagogue? Thanks, Ben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@browbeat.com (m. rizzi) Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #523 (HTML in Zorn-list postings) Date: 14 Aug 2001 08:43:01 -0700 (PDT) >There is no setting to turn on or off html in AOL email, (i just double >checked on that) and I have never noticed a problem before or had a complaint When I have the time, I privately email errant zorn-list posters who are using HTML and ask them to please use plain ascii text instead. Your postings have been fine up until May 8th (you can see I haven't been that diligent lately given the other list problems I've been tackling :) My guess is that around that date you (Jody) upgraded to a newer version of the AOL software. >... in fact, when i read my own postings to the Zorn list, they dont look >like what you copied in your email. The reason they look okay to you is that your email reader can render HTML email, so it looks "fine" to you. Unfortunately, some email reading software (for example, many Unix shell readers) do not render HTML, so the reader has to view the raw HTML (like what Herb Levy sent) which can be difficult to read, and makes search the archives more difficult. For other examples, browse the zorn-list archives at ftp://ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/zorn-list/archive v03.n525 is the latest digest at the moment. If you have any technical suggestions on this issue, please email them to me PRIVATELY rather than bothering the whole list with this decidedly non-zorn topic. thanks, mike rizzi zorn-list technical wanker - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath Subject: RE: ANGELO BADALAMENTI Date: 14 Aug 2001 11:22:30 -0500 >I don't have THE STRAIGHT STORY soundtrack, but I saw the movie and the >music is very beautiful, not creepy, but it is very great. Haven't yet seen the movie, but have the soundtrack. It is really very good, though not terribly "Lynchian" in the sense of Badalamenti's Twin Peaks stuff. Much more restrained, lots of acoustic guitar. Something I play quite often when I'm with a diverse group of people. Craig M. Rath H: fripp@mn.mediaone.net W: rathc@questarweb.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "josephneff" Subject: RE: fave loud songs Date: 14 Aug 2001 13:57:11 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00ED_01C124C9.03D45CC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, ...in no particular order.... Pussy Galore- "Dick Johnson" Sonic Youth- "Death Valley 69" & "Silver Rocket" King Crimson- "21st Century Schizoid Man" Butthole Surfers- "Cherub" Superchunk- "100,000 Fireflies" Hound Dog Taylor & the Houserockers- "Phillips' Theme" Big Black- "Kerosene" and "Bad Penny" Public Enemy- anything from "It Takes a Nation of Millions To Hold Us = Back" particularly "She Watch Channel Zero" Bar-Kays- "Soul Finger" Minor Threat- 1st two 7 inches Halo of Flies- "No Time" Yo La Tengo- "Somebody's Baby" and "Cherry Chapstick" Naked City- "Snagglepuss" Albert Ayler- "Ghosts (Spiritual Unity version) and "Bells" John Coltrane "Mr. PC" (live version w/ Dolphy from some junk assed = budget CD on Telstar records called "Abstract Blue" that has no info re: = date of recording etc.) I remain... Joseph NP: John Zorn "Naked City"=20 NR: Joseph McElroy "Lookout Cartridge" ------=_NextPart_000_00ED_01C124C9.03D45CC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,
        ...in no=20 particular order....
 
Pussy Galore- "Dick = Johnson"
Sonic Youth- "Death Valley 69" & = "Silver=20 Rocket"
King Crimson- "21st Century Schizoid=20 Man"
Butthole Surfers- "Cherub"
Superchunk- "100,000 = Fireflies"
Hound Dog Taylor & the = Houserockers- "Phillips'=20 Theme"
Big Black- "Kerosene" and "Bad = Penny"
Public Enemy- anything from "It Takes a = Nation of=20 Millions To Hold Us Back" particularly "She Watch Channel = Zero"
Bar-Kays- "Soul Finger"
Minor Threat- 1st two 7 = inches
Halo of Flies- "No Time"
Yo La Tengo- "Somebody's Baby" and = "Cherry=20 Chapstick"
Naked City- "Snagglepuss"
Albert Ayler- "Ghosts (Spiritual Unity = version) and=20 "Bells"
John Coltrane "Mr. PC" (live version w/ = Dolphy from=20 some junk assed budget CD on Telstar records called "Abstract Blue" that = has no=20 info re: date of recording etc.)
 
I remain...
 
Joseph
 
NP: John Zorn "Naked City" =
NR: Joseph McElroy "Lookout =20 Cartridge"
------=_NextPart_000_00ED_01C124C9.03D45CC0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: zornlist: zorn concert 11/29 Date: 14 Aug 2001 13:55:40 EDT Concert music of John Zorn Composer Portraits Thursday, November 29 John Zorn Absolute Ensemble Miller Theater, Columbia U www.millertheater.com hi guys spreading the word on this also check out the other amazing stuff in miller's series xenakis turnage cage ligeti feldman gubaidulina dolphy et al. im not on their payroll. yrs steve koenig n.p.: madrid 1752: sacred music fr the royal chapel of spain- madrid barroco (dorian) n.r.: boris vian: i spit on yr graves. tamtam books. www.tamtam.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "steve spangler" Subject: Zorn and Related disks for sale Date: 14 Aug 2001 14:51:27 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C124D0.98B41220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm glad to see that the Zorn list is back! Since the list has been down, I've pulled out some more unwanted Zorn = and related cd's to sell back. Again, I'm offering them to the List = before I take them to the local record store. Many list members picked = up my previous hoard of stuff, and they all seemed pretty pleased with = the condition of everything. I'm only getting rid of the stuff because I = never listen to it anymore--I have too much stuff and not enough time to = listen. I hope somebody can enjoy this stuff instaed of it gathering = dust on my shelves. These cd's are all in good shape, and shipping is included in the price. 1. John Zorn Filmworks 1986-1990 on Elektra Nonesuch: $12.00 2. John Zorn Filmworks II Music for an Untitled Film by Walter Hill: = $12.00 3. John Zorn Filmworks III 1990-1995: $12.00 4. John Zorn Filmworks IV S/M + More: $12.00 5. John Zorn Filmworks V Tears of Ecstacy: $12.00 6. John Zorn Filmworks VI 1996: $12.00 7. John Zorn Filmworks VII Cynical Hysterie Hour: $12.00 8. John Zorn Filmworks VIII 1997: $12.00 9. John Zorn Filmworks IX Trembling Before God: $12.00 10. John Zorn Aporias: $12.00 11. John Zorn Elegy: $12.00 12. John Zorn New Traditions in East Asian Bar Bands: $12.00 13. Zorn/Lewis/Frisell News for Lulu Hat Art CD 6005: $20.00 14. Zorn/Lewis/Frisell More News for Lulu Hat Art CD 6055: $20.00 15. John Zorn Cobra 2 cd set Hat Art CD 2-6040: $30.00 16. John Zorn John Zorn's Cobra Tokyo Operations '94: $17.00 17. David Moss (with Zorn, Frith, Lindsay, Laswell, Tacuma etc.) Full = House on Moers Music: $20.00 18. Buckethead Bucketheadland Avan 007 2 disk set: $30.00 19. Dave Douglas Sanctuary 2 disk set: $20.00 20. Cyro Baptista Vira Loucos Cyro plays the music of Villa Lobos: = $17.00 If any of these prices seem out-of-line, let me know--I think they're = pretty fair with shipping included. And, anything that doesn't go here = goes to the sell-back pile at my local music store so if you want it = please let me know, as I have no problem holding things for people. Also, if anybody would like to trade for something, I'm open to any = suggestions.=20 Steve ------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C124D0.98B41220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm glad to see that the Zorn list is=20 back!
 
Since the list has been down, I've = pulled out some=20 more unwanted Zorn and related cd's to sell back. Again, I'm offering = them to=20 the List before I take them to the local record store. Many list members = picked=20 up my previous hoard of stuff, and they all seemed pretty pleased with = the=20 condition of everything. I'm only getting rid of the stuff because I = never=20 listen to it anymore--I have too much stuff and not enough time to = listen. I=20 hope somebody can enjoy this stuff instaed of it gathering dust on my=20 shelves.
 
These cd's are all in good shape, and = shipping is=20 included in the price.
 
1. John Zorn Filmworks 1986-1990 = on=20 Elektra Nonesuch: $12.00
2. John Zorn Filmworks II Music for = an Untitled=20 Film by Walter Hill: $12.00
3. John Zorn Filmworks III = 1990-1995:=20 $12.00
4. John Zorn Filmworks IV S/M + = More:=20 $12.00
5. John Zorn Filmworks V Tears of = Ecstacy:=20 $12.00
6. John Zorn Filmworks VI 1996:=20 $12.00
7. John Zorn Filmworks VII Cynical = Hysterie=20 Hour: $12.00
8. John Zorn Filmworks VIII = 1997:=20 $12.00
9. John Zorn Filmworks IX Trembling = Before=20 God: $12.00
10. John Zorn Aporias: = $12.00
11. John Zorn Elegy: = $12.00
12. John Zorn New Traditions in = East Asian Bar=20 Bands: $12.00
13. Zorn/Lewis/Frisell News for = Lulu Hat=20 Art CD 6005: $20.00
14. Zorn/Lewis/Frisell More News = for Lulu=20 Hat Art CD 6055: $20.00
15. John Zorn Cobra 2 cd set = Hat Art CD=20 2-6040: $30.00
16. John Zorn John Zorn's Cobra = Tokyo=20 Operations '94: $17.00
17. David Moss (with Zorn, Frith, = Lindsay, Laswell,=20 Tacuma etc.) Full House on Moers Music: $20.00
18. Buckethead Bucketheadland = Avan 007 2=20 disk set: $30.00
19. Dave Douglas Sanctuary 2 = disk set:=20 $20.00
20. Cyro Baptista Vira Loucos Cyro = plays the=20 music of Villa Lobos: $17.00
 
If any of these prices seem = out-of-line, let me=20 know--I think they're pretty fair with shipping included. And, anything = that=20 doesn't go here goes to the sell-back pile at my local music store so if = you=20 want it please let me know, as I have no problem holding things for=20 people.
 
Also, if anybody would like to trade = for something,=20 I'm open to any suggestions.
 
Steve
------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C124D0.98B41220-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: Sweat Loaf Date: 14 Aug 2001 18:45:32 +0000 >From: wlt4@mindspring.com > Faust was mostly tedious... Don't know what Faust show you saw, but their first gig in Seattle was incredible, and dangerous, with the chainsaw, the welding torch and the piano smashing, "gimmicks" perhaps, but it all worked in the context of what they played... For real danger though, I suppose Survival Research Laboratories and Einsturzende Neubauten were the ticket... As for the Buttholes, saw 'em a couple of times around Locust Abortion Technician times (once with Soundgarden opening!) and Gibby did the flaming cymbal trick and jumped into the audience and came to blows with someone, whether a 'plant' or not no one ever knew. Before one of the shows, they built a campfire in the dressing room (on the concrete floor), and were injecting what they claimed was photographic developing fixer, which made them feel "all silvery around the edges"... Top loud songs: Well ever since Deep Purple permanently damaged my hearing when I was 17, my preference is to listen to everything LOUD, but here's some perennial faves: Misunderstood 'Children Of The Sun' Soft Machine 'Esther's Nose Job' (Volume Two) Can 'Mother Sky' King Crimson 'Starless And Bible Black/Fracture' Jimi Hendrix 'Voodoo Child' Igor Stravinsky 'Rite Of Spring' (especially the new one with Vengerov) Beatles 'Tomorrow Never Knows' Last Exit 'Iron Path' Bad Brains 'I Against I' Miles Davis 'Right Off' _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: play loud list Date: 14 Aug 2001 15:11:53 EDT STEVE KOENIG PLAY LOUD LIST IN NO ORDER 1. any james brown 2. any mahler 3. j5- i want you back 4. (tie)--- evan parker conic sections ---braxton series f sax improv (5) any aube 6. any dance music 7. xenakis- BOHOR <-- the best loud thing in existence 8. beatles- i want you shes so heavy 9. (tie) ---j lennon/plastic ono band- cold turkey (7" the CD sounds like shit) ---y oko/ plastic ono band- dont worry kyoko (mummys only looking for her hand in the snow) (7") 10. wagner's ring- preferably the live bohm version ALSO, IN MY IMAGINATION, MEMORIES OF FSCO LOPEZ AND BLIND IDIOT GOD. WILL THINK OF OTHERS LATER AND REGRET THIS LIST, LOUDLY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: play loud list Date: 14 Aug 2001 12:25:06 -0700 On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:11:53 EDT Acousticlv@aol.com wrote: > > STEVE KOENIG PLAY LOUD LIST > IN NO ORDER > > 9. (tie) ---j lennon/plastic ono band- cold turkey (7" the CD sounds like > shit) > ---y oko/ plastic ono band- dont worry kyoko > (mummys only looking for her hand in the snow) (7") Darn! I forgot Instant Karma. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: ch gayle FREE nyc/Fwd: Thu Aug 16. Grass,i Booth, Gayle.& more Date: 14 Aug 2001 15:47:53 EDT --part1_27.19da2e47.28aada69_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thursday, August 16, 2001 7 P.M. A FREE unannounced concert with: The Bass Junkies: Juini Booth - bass; Charles Gayle - sax; Lou Grassi - drums; Wayne Providence - guitar; On Davis - spoken word @The Community Garden- 209 East 7th Street(between Ave. B & C) This performance will be filmed as part of a French documentary on Juini Booth. Come join us and make jazz history! Raindate August 23 --part1_27.19da2e47.28aada69_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-xb03.mx.aol.com (rly-xb03.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.104]) by air-xb03.mail.aol.com (v79.27) with ESMTP id MAILINXB38-0814152940; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:29:40 -0400 Received: from smtp-hub2.mrf.mail.rcn.net (207-172-4-76.in-addr.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.76]) by rly-xb03.mx.aol.com (v79.20) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXB31-0814152902; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:29:01 -0400 Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.60]) by smtp-hub2.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.32 #2) id 15Wjs3-0006tF-00; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:28:59 -0400 Received: from 209-122-226-96.s350.apx1.nyw.ny.dialup.rcn.com ([209.122.226.96] helo=default) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #2) id 15WjrS-0004vK-00 ; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:28:23 -0400 Message-ID: <005001c124f7$b1237ea0$60e27ad1@default> Reply-To: "Lou Grassi" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0046_01C124D6.105E47A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C124D6.105E47A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thursday, August 16, 2001 7 P.M. A FREE unannounced concert=20 with: The Bass Junkies Juini Booth - bass Charles Gayle - saxophone Lou Grassi - drums Wayne Providence - guitar On Davis - spoken word\ at The Community Garden 209 East 7th Street (between Ave. B & C) This performance will be filmed as part of a French documentary on Juini Boo= th. Come join us and make jazz history! Raindate August 23 ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C124D6.105E47A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thursday, August 16, 2001 =20 7 P.M.
A FREE unannounced concert=20
with: The Bass=20 Junkies
   =        Juini Booth -=20 bass
   =        Charles Gayle -=20 saxophone
   =        Lou Grassi -=20 drums
   =        Wayne Providence -=20 guitar
   =        On Davis -=20 spoken word\
   =    at
   =        The Community=20 Garden
   =          209=20 East 7th Street
   =          =20 (between Ave. B & C)
This performance will be fil= med as=20 part of a French documentary on Juini Booth.
Come join us and make jazz=20 history!
Raindate August=20 23
------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C124D6.105E47A0-- --part1_27.19da2e47.28aada69_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: Scary Neubautens and Butthole Creeps Date: 14 Aug 2001 15:42:08 -0400 Einsturzende Neubauten circa 'Halber Mensch' was pretty f@&*in' scary indeed. I drove from San Antonio to Houston to take my younger sister to see them at a short-lived Houston club, the hideously named Phideaux's. The band kept the audience waiting outside for more than an hour after the advertised showtime of 9 p.m., then didn't come onstage until nearly 10:30. But the club was in located in a neighborhood with strict sound ordinances and the police shut down the show at 11 p.m. promptly. A half-hour show, then, but a memorable half-hour spent on the front row at the lip of the stage, staring waaaayyy up at Blixa's poisonous scowl (from that vantage point he seemed to be ten feet tall) and wondering if any of that scrap metal was likely to come flying straight at my head. (The club, rightly, closed down a few weeks later.) Gibby never came to blows with anyone at the Butthole shows I saw (ranging from 'Rembrandt Pussyhorse' to 'Piouhgd'), but the sirens, air horns, noxious smoke machine, flaming cymbal and penis-flaying films were certainly a big part of my impressions - though I never saw their ugly stripper. But I'll always remember my first time, like a fond lover. It was the Cameo Theater in San Antonio, freshman year, circa 1985. Heckled by someone behind me, Gibby came glowering to the front of the stage and grabbed my head, shoving it to the side to hock something slimy on the culprit. (Oooh, look at me, I'm famous, Gibby Haynes touched my head!) I've still got the sleeve he ripped off of his shirt in a box somewhere (white with blue stripes, sweaty, stinky, possibly toxic) along with a couple of the clothespins that were holding in place his skanky improvised dreads - all of it died green from the food coloring in his hair. I was like a 14 year old girl at an N'Sync show - an infatuated fanboy for whom they could do no wrong. I think it's because I was so timid and they were so contentious and brazen. It was *still* a thrill for me just a few short years ago to buy the new legit version of the boot 'The Hole Truth... and Nothing Butt!' and find two songs, "Moving to Florida" and "Hurdy-Gurdy Man," from that very show. And then there was the time at Power Tools in Houston, when I was hugging the lip of the stage like usual. Paul was swinging his guitar around by the strap at arm's length, and one end of the strap broke off - an event of which the obviously lit swinger was seemingly oblivious... Last time I saw them was in December '91. on New Year's Eve at the Vatican in Houston. King was the only drummer and sat down to play at a normal kit. Gibby was more petulant than usual and threatened to leave more than once. And Paul just beamed, and announced just before midnight that this had been their first show as Capitol recording artists, launching into a cover of "Don't Fear the Reaper." At the time, I naively thought this portended greatness ahead, and I do still kinda wish I could have seen Gibby with his shotgun at Lollapalooza a bit later. There's a pretty good chapter on the Buttholes in Michael Azerrad's new book, 'Our Band Could Be Your Life,' along with chapters on Husker Du, the Minutemen, Sonic Youth, Mission of Burma, Minor Threat, Fugazi, the Replacements, Big Black, Dinosaur Jr., Mudhoney, Beat Happening (?!?) and an especially revealing chapter on the nasty, bitter end of Black Flag. My biggest problem is that in compiling the book, no effort was made to bring its component articles up to the present. So the Surfers piece ends with their signing to Capitol - rightly describing 'Piouhgd' as a purposely botched kiss off to Rough Trade - but doesn't mention that the band's decline continued past that album. And I've given up all hope that Charles M. Young will ever finish the bio he's been writing for years now. John E. Smoke ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: Re: play LOUD list Date: 14 Aug 2001 16:00:17 EDT In a message dated 8/14/01 12:25:21 PM, proussel@ichips.intel.com writes: << Darn! I forgot Instant Karma. Patrice. >> Patrice, and Instant Karma is the worst of the whole lot on CD transfer. The kickdrum on the 7" KICKS! PLAY IT LOUD! My own forgotten ones: (1) (of course) Diamanda Galas: original British Y records 12" =20 Wild Women with Steak Knives, =20 the CD just isnt cut as hot. (2) Monteverdi- Vespro della beata Virgen 1610- Andrew Parrott=20 (whichever EMI or Virgin reissue it is now) (3) Messiaen- Turangal=EEla- Rattle EMI or Janowski RCA (4) all Jamaican-pressed 12" no matter how much gravel in the shellac. but Sister carol's Black Cinderella, especially. The dubside not on the=20 heartbeat CD. Steve koenig - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: Elliott Sharp's Syndakit FREE nyc, also Thu Aug 16 Date: 14 Aug 2001 16:10:34 -0400 Fyi. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thursday August 16 8pm Central Park Bandshell, New York City As part of the Independent Festival of Downtown Culture Elliott Sharp's Orchestra Carbon performs SYNDAKIT Elliott Sharp and Orchestra Carbon will present an 8-person version of his composition SyndaKit. Constructed of 144 composed cores and a set of simple instructions for their manifestation and manipulation by the players, SyndaKit creates an ever-shifting rhythmic matrix, a pulse bristling with vibrating detail based on the activities of flocking birds, African drum choirs, hunting packs, and recombinant amino acids. For this concert, Orchestra Carbon will include: Sam Furnace-alto sax Tim Smith-bass clarinet Eric Shanfield-cornet Curtis Fowlkes-trombone Kato Hideki-bass Jim Pugliese-percussion Sim Cain-drums and E#-soprano sax, electronics, 8 string guitarbass Central Park Naumburg Bandshell is on the east side near 72 Street Performance is FREE also performing: 6:00pm Vision into Art 7:00pm Rebecca Moore w/ ensemble POB - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert A. Pleshar" Subject: Re: Scary Neubautens and Butthole Creeps Date: 14 Aug 2001 15:18:59 -0500 I saw the Buttholes w/ stripper in Cleveland w/ some gruesome drivers ed movies in the background. I can't remember which was more gruesome. I do remember they did a nice cover of the Leather Nun's "No Rule." The next night they happened to be in the audience at a Big Black / Sonic Youth show I was at at Oberlin and I saw Gibby (we were wearing identical orange flapped winter deer hunting caps, conicidentally) and said "nice version of 'No Rule'." He jumped back and said "Way to spot the Leather Nun, dude!" I later heard that the stripper came down with scabies in Europe on tour and she only went overseas with the clothes she was wearing or something like that. Don't know if it's true or not, but it makes for a fine story, don't it? Goin' to Florida, R At 03:42 PM 8/14/01 -0400, Steve Smith wrote: > >Gibby never came to blows with anyone at the Butthole shows I saw (ranging >from 'Rembrandt Pussyhorse' to 'Piouhgd'), but the sirens, air horns, >noxious smoke machine, flaming cymbal and penis-flaying films were certainly >a big part of my impressions - though I never saw their ugly stripper. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben Axelrad" Subject: Re: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? / DC Stores Date: 14 Aug 2001 15:08:03 -0500 >Tim Berne "Bloodcount" >Fela "Beasts of No Nations" >Natural Elements "NYC" >that Henry Threadgill Sextett track written by Olu Dara (it's the first >track. sorry, can't remember name or album) >Biosphere "Substrata" >Smog "I Was a Stranger" >Angels of Light (first two tracks on "New Mother") >Lehn/Schmickler (last track). I made the mistake of playing this entire >album really loud on a Saturday morning and incurred the wrath of my >neighbors, who I'm still afraid to look in the eyes. That being said, I >can't stand to play "do" loud, it kills my ears. >Common "I Used to Love HER" >Leonard Cohen "Chelsea Hotel" My brother just moved to DC and is looking for some good record stores and music clubs. He's desperate. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Ben soulfrieda@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M.B." Subject: Re: play loud list/Yoko Ono Date: 14 Aug 2001 13:13:29 -0700 (PDT) --- "Patrice L. Roussel" wrote: > > On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:11:53 EDT Acousticlv@aol.com > wrote: > > > > STEVE KOENIG PLAY LOUD LIST > > IN NO ORDER > > > > 9. (tie) ---j lennon/plastic ono band- cold turkey > (7" the CD sounds like > > shit) > > ---y oko/ plastic ono band- dont worry > kyoko > > (mummys only looking for her hand in the > snow) (7") Id' prefer anything from the Yoko Ono/Plastic Ono Band album, especially "WHY". Or while we're mentioning "Don't Worry" and "Cold Turkey", why not just throw in the entire "Live Peace In Toronto Album"? :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: Sweat Loaf Date: 14 Aug 2001 13:24:41 -0700 thomas chatterton wrote: > > For real danger though, I suppose Survival Research Laboratories and > Einsturzende Neubauten were the ticket... Well, they would've been if SRL had actually managed to blow up the cliff at the end of their set ... or did you mean the robot walking off the stage at the On Broadway later that week? -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert Subject: loud 'n clear Date: 14 Aug 2001 22:35:00 +0200 KISS - Domino (unplugged) love it LOUD, Rob @ risk np: Music Revelation Ensemble - My Prayer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Re: Scary Neubautens and Butthole Creeps Date: 14 Aug 2001 16:39:56 -0400 The show I saw of the Buttholes around '85 was pretty much like the one(s) described in the Azerrad book (which I recommend also): naked green dancer, two drummers standing, home movies, surgery movies, strobe lights, smoke machine, singer in lingerie with megaphone in hand. Pretty much like my bar mitzvah... An early Neubatuen tape I'd seen (from the early '80's) had them performing in a junkyard around a flaming garbage can with some of the band banging on pipes and barrels. Surely worth the Eurovision prize but alas... Best, Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: loud 'n clear Date: 14 Aug 2001 16:41:36 -0400 I was thinking that "Creatures of the Night," should have made my list, actually. Along with, when I'm in the right mood, nearly everything from the first two 'Alive' sets. And maybe even "Unholy." Just keep "God Gave Rock'n'Roll To You" far, far away. Peter Criss ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Rob Allaert Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 4:35 PM KISS - Domino (unplugged) love it LOUD, Rob @ risk np: Music Revelation Ensemble - My Prayer - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew Mitchell" Subject: RE: ANGELO BADALAMENTI Date: 14 Aug 2001 16:55:45 -0400 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII What a great movie, as well! Also, tangentially related, soundtracks to Tarkosky movies are great. The ones I've seen are Mirror, Stalker and The Sacrifice. -matt And Badalamenti has written plenty of scores that aren't anything like his 'Twin Peaks' work. One of these, 'City of Lost Children,' is especially beautiful and well suited to the film. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - --- Matthew Mitchell --- matmi@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
What a great movie, as well!
 
Also, tangentially related, soundtracks to Tarkosky movies are great.  The ones I've seen are Mirror, Stalker and The Sacrifice.
 
-matt
 
 
And Badalamenti has written plenty of scores that aren't anything like his
'Twin Peaks' work.  One of these, 'City of Lost Children,' is especially
beautiful and well suited to the film.
 
Steve Smith
 
 
-
 

 
--- Matthew Mitchell
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert Subject: Passion Date: 14 Aug 2001 23:12:51 +0200 For those who are zorn-again, did any of you like "Passion" by Peter Gabriel? Thoughts? greetings, Rob @ risk np: Zaar - Gabriel - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: Passion Date: 14 Aug 2001 18:19:57 -0400 At 11:12 PM 8/14/01 +0200, Rob Allaert wrote: >For those who are zorn-again, did any of you like "Passion" by Peter >Gabriel? Funny you should mention this, we just pulled it out today and had a listen. IMHO, one of Gabriel's best. The world musicians give it a much grittier flavor than Birdy, so if you don't like the way PG mixes up various world music traditions, you might not like this one. OTOH, this was one of the first RealWorld experiments in this vein, and still one of the best. Try to ignore that it won a grammy for best newage (rhymes with sewage) album. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Iain Kitt" Subject: They like it loud you know! Date: 14 Aug 2001 23:07:09 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C12515.D80F3220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My 10 tracks best listened to with the volume turned up to 11 Naked City - The James Bond Theme Lee Perry - Bury the Razor (well just about any Lee Perry track in fact) This Heat - S.P.Q.R.=20 Leftfield - Dub Gussett Brotherhood of Breath - Do It Kevin Ayers & the Whole World - Shooting at the Moon (the loudest live = band I've ever heard) The Beat - Mirror in the Bathroom (and try not dancing!) King Crimson - Talking Drum/Lark's Tongue in Aspic Pt 2 Massive Attack - Group Four Iain ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C12515.D80F3220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My 10 tracks best listened to with the = volume=20 turned up to 11
 
Naked City - The James Bond = Theme
Lee Perry - Bury the Razor (well just = about any Lee=20 Perry track in fact)
This Heat - S.P.Q.R.
Leftfield - Dub Gussett
Brotherhood of Breath - Do = It
Kevin Ayers & the Whole World - = Shooting at the=20 Moon (the loudest live band I've ever heard)
The Beat - Mirror in the Bathroom (and = try not=20 dancing!)
King Crimson - Talking Drum/Lark's = Tongue in Aspic=20 Pt 2
Massive Attack - Group = Four
 
 
Iain
------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C12515.D80F3220-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ajda Snyder" Subject: Julee Cruise/Badalamenti Date: 14 Aug 2001 19:19:27 -0400 Hello, long time no post... Speaking of Badalamenti, I noticed his name listed in the credits of the TV series "The Profiler". Of course, I didn't actually notice the music during the show, so perhaps it's nothin' special. Re: J. Cruise --- She did vox on 2 trax by Khan on his "Get Khan" disc (Matador). One of them, "Body Dump", really stands out. And I think fans of Twin Peaks and her solo stuff could really get into that track; the subject matter is morbid enough. Ajda the Turkish Queen http://mp3.com/turkishqueen http://wmbr.mit.edu/schedesc.html#binge _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath Subject: Re: Julee Cruise/Badalamenti Date: 14 Aug 2001 18:26:54 -0500 >Speaking of Badalamenti, I noticed his name listed in the credits of the TV >series "The Profiler". Of course, I didn't actually notice the music during >the show, so perhaps it's nothin' special. As far as I can tell, he only did the opening theme music (and maybe the incidental music for the pilot, but I'm not sure about that). It's a fairly haunting theme, but nothing terribly special considering his other work. Craig M. Rath H: fripp@mn.mediaone.net W: rathc@questarweb.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Lankin" Subject: The return of JMT Date: 14 Aug 2001 19:42:35 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C124F9.44327A60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Looks like Stefan Winter has gotten the rights to at least some of the = titles from his old JMT label. Winter & Winter is reissuing three JMT = titles next month: Jane Ira Bloom & Fred Hersch As 1 (Winter & Winter/JMT) Sept 4 - from = 1984 Steve Coleman Group Motherland Pulse (Winter & Winter/JMT) Sept 4 - Coleman's debut from 1985; with Geri Allen, Lonnie Plaxico, Marvin = "Smitty" Smith, Cassandra Wilson, Graham Haynes and Mark Johnson Herb Robertson Transparency (Winter & Winter/JMT) Sept 4=20 - Robertson's debut from 1985; with Tim Berne, Bill Frisell, Lindsey = Horner and Joey Baron Alan Lankin lankina@att.net Jazzmatazz http://jazzmatazz.home.att.net ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C124F9.44327A60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Looks like Stefan Winter has gotten the rights to at least some of = the=20 titles from his old JMT label.  Winter & Winter is reissuing = three JMT=20 titles next month:
 
Jane Ira Bloom & = Fred=20 Hersch As 1 (Winter=20 & Winter/JMT) Sept 4 — from 1984
Steve Coleman Group = Motherland Pulse=20 (Winter & Winter/JMT) Sept 4
— Coleman's debut from 1985; = with Geri=20 Allen, Lonnie Plaxico, Marvin "Smitty" Smith, Cassandra Wilson, Graham = Haynes=20 and Mark Johnson
Herb Robertson = Transparency (Winter=20 & Winter/JMT) Sept 4
— Robertson's debut from 1985; with = Tim Berne, Bill=20 Frisell, Lindsey Horner and Joey Baron
 
 
Alan Lankin
lankina@att.net
 
Jazzmatazz
http://jazzmatazz.home.att.net
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C124F9.44327A60-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: The return of JMT Date: 14 Aug 2001 16:55:51 -0700 On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:42:35 -0400 "Alan Lankin" wrote: > > Herb Robertson Transparency (Winter & Winter/JMT) Sept 4=20 > - Robertson's debut from 1985; with Tim Berne, Bill Frisell, Lindsey = > Horner and Joey Baron Does anybody know if this record was ever released on CD? I am only aware of the 1985 vinyl print. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: Fwd: Seattle Chamber Players: Season Announcement Date: 14 Aug 2001 20:09:34 -0500 Hi folks, I just received this & thought y'all'd like to know about it. In addition to the Zorn premiere on the November concert, there's also a premiere by Uri Caine in spring (as well as other good music less relevant to the list at hand). Bests, Herb >The Seattle Chamber Players announce > >the 2001-2002 season > >New To Your Ears! > >All concerts in Nordstrom Recital Hall, Benaroya Hall > >The SCP: > >Laura DeLuca, clarinet >David Sabee, cello >Mikhail Shmidt, violin >Paul Taub, flute > > >The Seattle Chamber Players continue to set the trend for chamber music >programming with a season of seven provocative concerts, and its first >ever festival and conference. > >Subscription packages range from $88 to $150; individual tickets are >$25/$19 students. > >To receive a copy of our brochure, order tickets or for further >information, call 206-286-5052 or email paultaub@dbug.org > >The season features: > >Stephen Drury, piano >John Duykers, tenor >Anton Nel, piano >Lydia Kavina, theremin >Alexander Ivashkin, cello >Svetlana Savenko, soprano >Ivan Sokolov, piano >Uri Caine, piano >New works by John Zorn, Laura Kaminsky, Uri Caine,and Seth Krimsky > >February 8-10, 2002: Icebreaker: Voices from New Russia >a three-day festival and conference with premieres of new works by five >Russian composers > >There will be a pre-concert talk starting 45 minutes before each concert. >All concerts take place at Benaroya Hall's Illsley Ball Nordstrom Recital >Hall in downtown Seattle > > >The Season > >American Mavericks > >Sunday, November 11, 2001, 7:00 PM >Stephen Drury, piano >John Zorn, new work >Laura Kaminsky, new work >other works to be announced > >British Invasion > >Friday, January 18, 2002, 8:00 PM >John Duykers, tenor >Peter Maxwell Davies, Eight Songs for a Mad King, and works by James >Macmillan and Gavin Bryars > >Icebreaker: Voices from New Russia >A Three-Day Festival / Conference of Contemporary Russian Music > >Friday, February 8, 2002, 8:00 PM >Saturday, February 9, 2002, 2:00 PM >Sunday, February 10, 2002 7:00 PM > >Lydia Kavina, theremin >Alexander Ivashkin, cello >Svetlana Savenko, soprano >Ivan Sokolov, piano > >---featuring five premieres by members of the Russian Association of >Contemporary Music II, the current-day successors of the great 20th >century Russian composers Shostakovich, Schnittke and Gubaidulina--- > >Sons Exotiques > >Friday, March 14, 2002, 8:00 PM >Anton Nel, piano >Claude Debussy, Piano Preludes >Steve Reich, Vermont Counterpoint >Pierre Boulez, Dialogue de l'Ombre Double >Olivier Messaien, Quartet for the End of Time > >Uri and Seth's Excellent Adventure > >Sunday, April 14, 2002, 7:00 PM >Uri Caine, piano >Seth Krimsky, bassoon >Uri Caine, new work >Seth Krimsky, new work >other works to be announced -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, Texas 76147 817 377-2983 herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: The return of JMT Date: 14 Aug 2001 21:16:32 -0400 I have never seen a CD version, not never ever, not even as a Japanese or German import, so I've taken special care of my vinyl. It's a really nice album. I'm glad to see the JMT stuff on the verge of reappearing. There's not much there that I don't already have, but after years of hearing about some of this stuff, I bet lots of people who missed these releases the first time around will love to have a chance to hear them for themselves. Wonder if this means the ten-year hole in Tim Berne's life will soon be patched. He had once wanted to do it himself, via licensing the discs for Screwgun, but was blocked from doing so. And it will be nice to get the Bloom/Hersch on shiny disc as well. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Patrice L. Roussel Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 7:56 PM Cc: zornlist; proussel@ichips.intel.com On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:42:35 -0400 "Alan Lankin" wrote: > > Herb Robertson Transparency (Winter & Winter/JMT) Sept 4=20 > - Robertson's debut from 1985; with Tim Berne, Bill Frisell, Lindsey = > Horner and Joey Baron Does anybody know if this record was ever released on CD? I am only aware of the 1985 vinyl print. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: Scary Neubautens and Butthole Creeps Date: 15 Aug 2001 01:42:37 +0000 >From: Perfect Sound Forever > > >The show I saw of the Buttholes around '85 was pretty much like the one(s) >described in the Azerrad book (which I recommend also): naked green dancer, >two drummers standing, home movies, surgery movies, >strobe lights, smoke machine, singer in lingerie with megaphone in hand. Now my memory has been slightly more (a)jarred by these postings, during the show I saw on this tour, Gibby had lit the cymbal on fire with the lighter fluid, and was hitting it with his hand, causing flaming fluid to fly about, next thing blood is spurting everywhere from his wrist and/or forearm, and then he jumps into the audience and gets into a punchup, of course the audience is freaking but a few seconds later he's back on stage "singing", like nothing ever happened, no sign of blood. Very strange! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: What are your favorite ten songs to play really loud? / DC Stores Date: 14 Aug 2001 21:07:34 -0500 On Tue, Aug 14, 2001 at 03:08:03PM -0500, Ben Axelrad wrote: > My brother just moved to DC and is looking for some good record stores and > music clubs. He's desperate. Any help would be appreciated. Good record stores in DC? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! But Now! Music and Fashion (in nearby Arlington, at the Clarendon Metro) ain't bad, if no match for the good places in NYC. As far as clubs, if you're looking for zorn-list related stuff, it sorta floats around. The Sonic Circuits festival is in DC this week (we have links from the Metatron Press home page at http://www.metatronpress.com/ ). Good stuff happens at MoCA-DC, a gallery in Georgetown, so keep an eye of for listings there. (Disclaimer: I book some of it, and am thereby prejudiced :-]) -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: king ubu Date: 15 Aug 2001 00:23:32 EDT interesting list of records, Michael. I've only heard some of these fairly recently (News From The Shed and Loose Music), so I have a different perspective on them. Random Acoustics was definitely influential on Erstwhile, though, as evident by the many musicians who overlap the two. some early faves were the Polwechsel, Pair'A'Dice, and the Earl Howard, still one of only two records he's done as a leader (the other being an Erstwhile). Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: king ubu Date: 14 Aug 2001 13:25:03 +0200 >In a message dated 8/13/01 5:53:22 PM, lartis@ath.forthnet.gr writes: > ><< are you coming from the point of view of liking the > >previous releases, as did Michael? >> > >yeah, I really liked Binaurality. never heard the other one, how's that >compare? around 15 years ago I saw a concert of King Ubu in Berlin with my girlfriend of that time and it was her first and probably last jazz concert ever... Surprisingly this chaotic band is still active. Andreas _________________________________________________________________ Downloaden Sie MSN Explorer kostenlos unter http://explorer.msn.de/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Vuilleumier=2C_St=E9phane=22?= Subject: most dangerous shows Date: 15 Aug 2001 09:10:39 +0200 this looks like another good "best of" thread! Alas, I never saw the Buttholes or Neubauten but there are shows from approx. that time that I still vividly remember: Virgin Prunes ca 82 Zurich extremely aggressive stance, dripping make-up, heavy fruit spitting Residents ca 84(83?) Zurich very tense megahappening, since a large anti-can't remember protest demo changed its authorized course to rejoin the venue in time for the gig, making police go tear-gas crazy and shove hundreds of demonstrators (and I guess residents fans) into the venue for free. Foetus ca 85 Fribourg naked from the waist up, comes in like a blast and kicks in the entire=20 skinhead frontrow of heads with his doc martens as a shock start. Fura del Baus ca 87 Basel old+large+high indoor military stable venue, actors/musicians=20 running mad everywhere hassling around the audience (which had to keep moving), lighting things up, throwing flour and various liquids,=20 waving electric saws (probably not real, but pretty=20 scary looking). The closest to a full-fledged street riot I felt in a "concert".=20 =20 St=E9phane > -----Original Message----- > From: wlt4@mindspring.com [mailto:wlt4@mindspring.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 5:55 PM > To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: Sweat Loaf >=20 >=20 >=20 > My two dangerous shows were: 1. Faust's North American=20 > debut where one band member was swinging a chainsaw very=20 > close to audience members (& yes it was real because he'd=20 > been cutting something). 2. Anybody remember Psychodrama? =20 > Their performance at the Destroy All Music festival featured=20 > one member in nothing but a diaper while the other broke LPs=20 > in half and then zipped them at the audience which could have=20 > easily "put somebody's eye out" among other things. =20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "josephneff" Subject: RE: ugly strippers and dangerous shows Date: 15 Aug 2001 04:57:11 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0144_01C12546.BE60D500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, ...the Buttholian stripper in question was Kathleen Lynch, and = while I never was afforded the opportunity to glimpse her wares, I did = get to see her band Beme Seed open for the Surfers at the old DC 9:30 = club. Swans style pain rock crossed with some Buttholes style psyche. = The two albums I have by 'em are rather cool.=20 ...someone mentioned Psychodrama in relation to dangerous = shows, and I haven't heard that name mentioned in ages. They were = actually quite controversial back in the 80's due to their blatantly = racist content. Gerard "Matador" Cosloy would defend them in his long = gone fanzine Conflict, while Eugene Chadbourne would attack them in = Maximum Rock n Roll. IIRC, some of the people in Psychodrama also had = connections to Lisa Carver when she was doing her Suckdog thing. While I = never experienced Psychodrama outside of the fanzine press, I'd say they = could be summed up as oddball performance art that was intended to shock = and anger the politically correct.=20 ...descriptions of Joe Coleman shows always made 'em sound rather = dangerous to me. I remain.... Joseph NP: Smiley Winters "Smiley Etc." CD NR: Joseph McElroy "Lookout Cartridge" ------=_NextPart_000_0144_01C12546.BE60D500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,
        ...the=20 Buttholian stripper in question was Kathleen Lynch, and while I never = was=20 afforded the opportunity to glimpse her wares, I did get to see her band = Beme=20 Seed open for the Surfers at the old DC 9:30 club. Swans style pain rock = crossed=20 with some Buttholes style psyche. The two albums I have by 'em are = rather cool.=20
 
        =20 ...someone mentioned Psychodrama in relation to dangerous shows, and I = haven't=20 heard that name mentioned in ages. They were actually quite = controversial back=20 in the 80's due to their blatantly racist content. Gerard "Matador" = Cosloy would=20 defend them in his long gone fanzine Conflict, while Eugene Chadbourne = would=20 attack them in Maximum Rock n Roll. IIRC, some of the people in = Psychodrama also=20 had connections to Lisa Carver when she was doing her Suckdog thing. = While I=20 never experienced Psychodrama outside of the fanzine press, I'd say they = could=20 be summed up as oddball performance art that was intended to shock and = anger the=20 politically correct.
 
      =20 ...descriptions of Joe Coleman shows always made 'em sound rather = dangerous to=20 me.
 
I remain....
 
Joseph
 
NP: Smiley Winters "Smiley Etc." = CD
NR: Joseph McElroy "Lookout=20 Cartridge"
------=_NextPart_000_0144_01C12546.BE60D500-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: The Residents (was: most dangerous shows) Date: 15 Aug 2001 10:37:03 +0200 "Vuilleumier, Stéphane" wrote: > Residents ca 84(83?) Zurich > very tense megahappening, since a large anti-can't remember protest > demo changed its authorized course to rejoin the venue > in time for the gig, making police go tear-gas crazy and shove hundreds > of demonstrators (and I guess residents fans) into the venue for free. And they'll be playing Zurich again in September!!! Missed them last time, but I'll be there this year. patRice np: Fela Kuti, Original Sufferhead / I.T.T. nr: Ogai Mori, Vita Sexualis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: Julee Cruise/Badalamenti Date: 15 Aug 2001 12:10:18 -0400 Julee Cruise had one song, I believe it was on the SCREAM soundtrack. Haven't heard of it. And apart from the KHAN contributions, she also did some vocals to a band/artist named HYBRID. Has anyone heard any of these? Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. Cocteau Twins - Head Over Heels/Sunburst and Snowblind - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kurt Gottschalk" Subject: Re: Scary Neubautens and Butthole Creeps Date: 15 Aug 2001 16:19:56 +0000 thanks for the butthole reminiscences, steve. a few years ago, i read a pretty good piece about them in, of all places, rolling stone. the writer (whose name i forgetted) led the piece with a long story about gibby playing touch football in his yard, and how he was a star quarterback in high school. the point of explaining all this, the author went on to say, was to show where he got the skills required to bean a heckler in the back of the room in the head with a full can of beer. yeah, it sucks that they suck now. there's a time to shit and a time for god, the last shit i took was pretty fucking hard. kurt _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paisley Fripp Subject: top ten things to listen to loud Date: 15 Aug 2001 11:05:15 -0700 (PDT) 1.)"Holy Wars/the Punishment Due" - Megadeth 2.) Anything off "Hard Normal Daddy" - Squarepusher 3.) Anything by Napalm Death since 1995 4.) Anything off "Heartwork" - Carcass 5.) "Sympathy for the Devil" and "Gimme Shelter"-Rolling Stones 6.)"Renunciation" -Secret Chiefs 3 7.)"Angel of Death" - Slayer 8.)Anything by Isis, especially off "Celestial" 9.)Anything by Muslimgauze 10.)Anything by Dead Can Dance __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bza" Subject: My top 10 louder list Date: 15 Aug 2001 23:20:04 +0200 1)Peace love and pitbulls : (I'm the) radio king kong 2) dEUS : suds & soda 3) Naked City : Contempt 4) Rollins Band : Ghost Rider 5) John Coltrane : India (live at the Village Vanguard, last day) 6) Eric Dolphy : Booker's Waltz 7) NIN : Wish 8) Pantera : Great Southern Trendkill 9) Public Enemy : She watch channel 0 10) The whole "ask question later" album from Cop shoot Cop ....and of course any Squarepusher track ! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Saariaho Date: 16 Aug 2001 05:32:55 +0000 Anyone on the list familiar with the works of electroacoustic composer Kaija Saariaho? Comments? Recommendations? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: Saariaho Date: 16 Aug 2001 07:33:11 -0400 At 05:32 AM 8/16/01 +0000, thomas chatterton wrote: > >Anyone on the list familiar with the works of electroacoustic composer Kaija >Saariaho? Comments? Recommendations? The only album I have of hers is Private Gardens, a collection of four works for instruments and electronics on Ondine. One of the 'instruments' in this case is a soprano, an instrument for which I've never acquired a taste. However, the other pieces on the album, one each for cello and flute and a suite for percussion, are very nice. The percussion suite in particular is very delicate and ethereal. For another opinion, there's a fairly long review of this album posted at cdnow, where the reviewer gives pride of place to the soprano piece. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Vincent Kargatis / Anne Larson" Subject: Re: The return of JMT Date: 16 Aug 2001 15:09:03 +0300 > From: "Steve Smith" > Wonder if this means the ten-year hole in Tim Berne's life will soon be > patched. Be nice - I shudder to think of the poor lot of recent Berne fans who haven't heard stuff like FRACTURED FAIRY TALES and PACE YOURSELF. -- Vincent Kargatis np: Steve Lacy - "Morning Joy" (Morning Joy) (np auto-generated with http://www.oddsock.org/tools/dosomething/) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: The return of JMT Date: 16 Aug 2001 08:33:21 EDT In a message dated 8/16/01 8:20:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lartis@ath.forthnet.gr writes: > Be nice - I shudder to think of the poor lot of recent Berne fans who > haven't heard stuff like FRACTURED FAIRY TALES and PACE YOURSELF. Count me among this poor lot. I've been searching in vain for FFT for a couple of years. Any word from Tim on the likeliness of his reissuing the JMT stuff? Berne deficient, Tom ______________________________________________________________________ Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately, and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Vincent Kargatis / Anne Larson" Subject: Re: Saariaho Date: 16 Aug 2001 15:17:47 +0300 > From: "thomas chatterton" > > Anyone on the list familiar with the works of electroacoustic composer Kaija > Saariaho? Comments? Recommendations? I really like her - a timbre-master, I think. I'm with Caleb in being no fan of soprano, but if you are, her latest FROM THE GRAMMAR OF DREAMS on Ondine is very good. I'd recommend two others, though: Finlandia 374 - Lichtbogen, Io, Verblendungne, Stilleben (1989): Music for orchestra, ensemble, tape, and electronics - very nice. Ondine 791 - Maa (Ballet Music in Seven Scenes) (1992) A bit more austere and ambient, but also fine. -- Vincent Kargatis np: Radiohead - "How to Disappear Completely" (Kid A) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: ugly strippers and dangerous shows Date: 16 Aug 2001 09:52:10 EDT In a message dated 8/16/01 9:38:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, perfect-sound@furious.com writes: > Definitely. The other groups we've been talking about are surely kid's stuff > in comparison. He > made Andy Kaufman look like Garrison Keillor. See http://www.heck.com/ > coleman > > If you don't have a weak stomach (remember, I warned ya), Herman Nitsch is > another extreme > performance artist that's exploring: http://www.nitsch.org/ien/ > > Best, > Jason While I never saw him I've heard that GG Allin's shows were legendarily violent and dangerous. Any witnesses out there? Tom ______________________________________________________________________ Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately, and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Thomas" Subject: RE: Herb on JMT Date: 16 Aug 2001 09:11:21 -0500 On the subject of Herb Robertson's _Transparency_: >I have never seen a CD version, not never ever, not even as a Japanese or >German import, so I've taken special care of my vinyl. It's a really nice >album. I am really glad to see this getting reissued as well. Through the used CD sources and a friend (thanks Mike!) I have been enjoying _Shades of Bud Powell_ and _Certified_ recently. This JMT period seems to have been a really great time for Herb's music. Anyone care to comment on Herb's other JMT discs...I was especially wondering about _The Little Trumpet_. Thanks John - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcel Cobussen" Subject: essay on zorn Date: 16 Aug 2001 16:09:54 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B5_01C1266D.E2C5F740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable dear list members, in a few weeks i will finish my dissertation on music and deconstruction = in which zorn plays an important role. in order to complete my = bibliography i hope somebody can help me with bibliographical = information about an essay called 'john zorn - music without govern'. i = think i've found it on the internet once but i cannot recall the author = and where it is published. H E L P!! marcel cobussen ------=_NextPart_000_00B5_01C1266D.E2C5F740 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
dear list members,
 
in a few weeks i will finish my dissertation on music and = deconstruction in=20 which zorn plays an important role. in order to complete my bibliography = i hope=20 somebody can help me with bibliographical information about an essay = called=20 'john zorn - music without govern'. i think i've found it on the = internet once=20 but i cannot recall the author and where it is published. H E L = P!!
 
marcel cobussen
------=_NextPart_000_00B5_01C1266D.E2C5F740-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Re: ugly strippers and dangerous shows Date: 16 Aug 2001 10:04:52 -0400 Samerivertwice@aol.com wrote: > While I never saw him I've heard that GG Allin's shows were legendarily > violent and dangerous. > > Any witnesses out there? Dear old GG... RIP Most (in)famous for his feces-splattering, audience-bashing performances- never had the honor of witnessing this but I've seen some videos that document his art. A friend of mine told me that GG would gobble down X-Lax before shows to get his bowels in shape. Many shows wouldn't last long as the patrons didn't like getting shit thrown at them and clubs would usually clear out and GG would land in the jailhouse many time. One of the guys who worked at the Cat Club in NY (where GG scrawled his name on the backstage dressing room doors) had no sympathy for the fleeing patrons: "You come to one of his shows and what do you expect?" Best, Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer Subject: not so most dangerous shows Date: 16 Aug 2001 10:13:59 -0400 %Foetus ca 85 Fribourg % naked from the waist up, comes in like a blast and kicks in the entire=20 % skinhead frontrow of heads with his doc martens as a shock start. I've seen Foetus a couple times and the one I recall most was in Melbourne, Florida around about 1990. It was an all-ages show and for whatever reason it had mostly attracted the local punk-rocking 13-16 year old crowd. Anyway, Thirlwell is performing with his usual rancorous attitude and he creeps up to the edge of the stage with the microphone and starts sneering at the kids as he shouts in the mic, sort of hanging over the edge of the stage so he is over the audience, and one short little kid makes a peace sign with two fingers at Thirlwell, who just sneers at the kid, until the kid promptly and rather gently inserts these two extended fingers into Thirlwell's nostrils, quite deeply. The look on Thirlwell's face was one of pure shock. I don't think Thirlwell ever provided an audience with such a shock. David K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Westergaard" Subject: RE: Herb on JMT Date: 16 Aug 2001 10:32:55 -0400 The Little Trumpet is fabulous. killer band including Bill Frisell, Tim Berne, and Warren Smith on vibes. everyone gets great solo space. The Marvelous Event (track 10) is alone worth the price of admission, with everyone trading solos, and the tune actually begins with the sound of jackhammers. beautiful. sean -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of John Thomas Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 10:11 AM On the subject of Herb Robertson's _Transparency_: >I have never seen a CD version, not never ever, not even as a Japanese or >German import, so I've taken special care of my vinyl. It's a really nice >album. I am really glad to see this getting reissued as well. Through the used CD sources and a friend (thanks Mike!) I have been enjoying _Shades of Bud Powell_ and _Certified_ recently. This JMT period seems to have been a really great time for Herb's music. Anyone care to comment on Herb's other JMT discs...I was especially wondering about _The Little Trumpet_. Thanks John - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Theo Klaase Subject: Recommendations? Date: 16 Aug 2001 09:26:20 -0700 (PDT) --0-756350459-997979180=:50377 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii recommendations zornsters? I really like Jim Black's AlasNoAxis, Slow Poke, Pigpen, Fantomas, Bill Frisell, Jack Dejohnette, Medeski, Martin and Wood, etc.... Anyone got any recommendations based on that list... I've been looking to buy a dozen CD's with my Republican tax-relief check... ...and yes, I know it's not a refund... -Theo Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $0.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger. --0-756350459-997979180=:50377 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

recommendations zornsters?

I really like Jim Black's AlasNoAxis, Slow Poke, Pigpen, Fantomas, Bill Frisell, Jack Dejohnette, Medeski, Martin and Wood, etc.... Anyone got any recommendations based on that list... I've been looking to buy a dozen CD's with my Republican tax-relief check... ...and yes, I know it's not a refund...

-Theo


Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $0.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger. --0-756350459-997979180=:50377-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Re: Recommendations? Date: 16 Aug 2001 12:38:43 -0400 --------------BA4896D9499AF7A3B424026D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Among the best things I've heard recently: the new James Emery, Theo Bleckmann's "Origami" and Michael Moore's "Jewels & Binoculars: The Music of Bob Dylan". James Hale Theo Klaase wrote: > recommendations zornsters? > > I really like Jim Black's AlasNoAxis, Slow Poke, Pigpen, Fantomas, > Bill Frisell, Jack Dejohnette, Medeski, Martin and Wood, etc.... > Anyone got any recommendations based on that list... I've been looking > to buy a dozen CD's with my Republican tax-relief check... ...and yes, > I know it's not a refund... > > -Theo > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $0.04/minute with Yahoo! > Messenger. --------------BA4896D9499AF7A3B424026D Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Among the best things I've heard recently: the new James Emery, Theo Bleckmann's "Origami" and Michael Moore's "Jewels & Binoculars: The Music of Bob Dylan".

James Hale

Theo Klaase wrote:

recommendations zornsters?

I really like Jim Black's AlasNoAxis, Slow Poke, Pigpen, Fantomas, Bill Frisell, Jack Dejohnette, Medeski, Martin and Wood, etc.... Anyone got any recommendations based on that list... I've been looking to buy a dozen CD's with my Republican tax-relief check... ...and yes, I know it's not a refund...

-Theo
 

Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $0.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger.
--------------BA4896D9499AF7A3B424026D-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Re: ugly strippers and dangerous shows Date: 16 Aug 2001 09:11:35 -0400 On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 04:57:11 -0400, josephneff wrote: > descriptions of Joe Coleman shows always made 'em sound rather dangerous to me. Definitely. The other groups we've been talking about are surely kid's stuff in comparison. He made Andy Kaufman look like Garrison Keillor. See http://www.heck.com/coleman If you don't have a weak stomach (remember, I warned ya), Herman Nitsch is another extreme performance artist that's exploring: http://www.nitsch.org/ien/ Best, Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (PMC) Subject: Non-JZ FS: Alboth!, Zoviet France, Muslimgauze etc. Date: 16 Aug 2001 09:14:46 +0100 I have the following items for sale that some Zorn fans may be interested in. Prices are in _US $_ and are POSTAGE PAID within North America. Shipping on orders outside NA can be arranged. If you don't like a price, make me an OFFER. $20 -- Alboth! - "Liebefeld" GER CD (PDCD: cdppp112) 1992 [Brilliant sophomore album from this Swiss quartet. Produced by Kevin Martin (God, Ice, Techno Animal). Feat. Alex Buess (16-17), Werner L=FCdi, and Hans Koch. Deleted.] $15 -- Brian Lavelle/Richard Youngs - "Radios 1" UK CD (Freek) 1995 $12 -- Cable Regime - "King Of Beers/Chromophobia" UK 12" (Sentrax) 1993 [Paul Neville & the boys w/ a rocker from "Kill Lies All" plus a stunning 9 min. drone piece not on the LP. Mint. Deleted.] $30 -- Muslimgauze - "Salaam Alekum, Bastard" US CD (Soleilmoon) 1995 [Classic album from 1995 showcasing a wide variety of Bryn Jones' composition styles. Limited to 1850 copies. Mint. Deleted.] $12 -- Soundlab - "Stereophonic Retina ..." US 3" CD (Soundlab) 1997 [20 min. illbient sound collage produced by Singe & Verb for an installation at the 1997 Biennial Exhibition at the Whitney Museum Of American Art, NYC. Deleted.] $25 -- Zoviet France - "Garista" UK CD (Charrm: charrmcd1) 1990 [Earliest, most primal recordings from December 1981. Remastered CD press of the "Soviet France" cassette only release from 1982. Mint. Deleted.] Thanks for looking. -Patrick pm.carey@utoronto.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert Subject: Jewels & Binoculars Date: 16 Aug 2001 21:52:35 +0200 James Hale wrote: > Michael Moore's "Jewels & Binoculars: The Music of Bob Dylan". James, Tell us some more about this new Moore. Is it Clusone 3. Is Bennink playing? greetings, Rob @ risk np: Prince - Girls & Boys - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert Subject: Re: Recommendations? Date: 16 Aug 2001 21:55:23 +0200 Go get 'Kitsuni-Bi' and 'Toward to West' by Satoko Fujji with J Black & M Dresser. Theo Klaase wrote: > recommendations zornsters? I really like Jim Black' greetings, Rob @ risk > np: Prince - Most B Girl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert Subject: Again: Zorn's next major Project Date: 16 Aug 2001 22:00:36 +0200 I'm really sorry that this interesting message has some Zorn content. But I was hoping that some of you still listen to some of his music. You gotta have at least some sort of exotic wish as to what Zorn has to do next. Come On !!! Repeated message: > Zorn-agains, > > He had Naked City, he had Masada. But what will he do in the future? Will > he simulate african rythms without the use of percussion mixed with hard > core bagpipes? Most likely. But, really, what would be a new and exiting > project for John Zorn? Let's help the man. He's desperate ;-) > > Hey ... this actually has Zorn content. Is this OK ?! greetings, Rob @ risk np: Prince - Diamonds & Pearls - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mads Ruby" Subject: Re: The return of JMT Date: 16 Aug 2001 22:00:41 +0200 > Count me among this poor lot. I've been searching in vain for FFT for = a=20 > couple of years. Any word from Tim on the likeliness of his reissuing = the=20 > JMT stuff? >=20 > Berne deficient, > Tom >=20 A couple of weeks ago my local record dealer told me that Fractured = Fairy Tales is planned for release on Winter & Winter, and that more = Berne reissues will follow.=20 Anybody have any news on the limited edition issue of his European Big = Band recordings made earlier this year. I saw the concert and it was one = of the greatest things I=B4ve heard Berne do. Cheers, Mads - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Maurice Rickard Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project Date: 16 Aug 2001 16:08:04 -0400 Loving Naked City's _Absinthe_ as I do, I'd be interested in hearing more dark ambient stuff. Admittedly, it's something he's done before, though. I dunno, how about Lounge/exotica/easy listening? With occasional Eye screams? And a singing-bowl orchestra. Exploding, in slow motion. HTH, Maurice At 10:00 PM +0200 8/16/01, Rob Allaert wrote: >You gotta have at least some sort of exotic wish as to what Zorn has >to do next. -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project Date: 16 Aug 2001 16:22:51 -0400 At 22:00 16/08/01 +0200, Rob@llaert.NU wrote: >Repeated message: Perhaps you should have formulated it "What are the TOP TEN things you would like zorn to do next" TOP TENS are easy, authoritative, in one word: popular... PS you may or may not have noticed Zorn has been doing classical compositions lately, which accounts for a slower pace than he got us used to. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project Date: 16 Aug 2001 13:34:10 -0700 On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:00:36 +0200 Rob Allaert wrote: > > I'm really sorry that this interesting message has some Zorn content. But > I was hoping that some of you still listen to some of his music. You gotta > have at least some sort of exotic wish as to what Zorn has to do next. I think that the best that could happen to Zorn is to drop *100%* Masada. Masada has almost killed my interest in Zorn, and since his classical compositions are, IMHO, quite weak and derivative, the last decade I have been on a serious Zorn diet and learnt to live without his music (which is sad because I still love the man and believe that he is one the most creative musician to come up in the past 20 years). Patrice (who was yawning before the second half of the first Masada). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project Date: 16 Aug 2001 16:58:19 -0400 At 13:34 16/08/01 -0700, proussel@ichips.intel.com wrote: >I think that the best that could happen to Zorn is to drop *100%* Masada. >Masada has almost killed my interest in Zorn, and since his classical >compositions are, IMHO, quite weak and derivative, Agreed 100% on what you write about masada above, and 0% on your comment about Zorn's classical output which is unfounded IMHO. (I am curious - derivative from what?) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roballey@juno.com Subject: Re:essay on zorn Date: 16 Aug 2001 15:43:50 -0500 I wish I could help, but unfortunately I can't. I would like to know where / what school will be publishing your dissertation. Sounds incredibly interesting. > in a few weeks i will finish my dissertation on music and > deconstruction = > in which zorn plays an important role. in order to complete my = > bibliography i hope somebody can help me with bibliographical = > information about an essay called 'john zorn - music without > govern'. i = > think i've found it on the internet once but i cannot recall the > author = > and where it is published. H E L P!! > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: i have a dream Date: 16 Aug 2001 21:03:46 +0000 I wish Zorn would do a new ROCK project featuring his COMPOSITIONS. Not just the rock-ish impro stuff he has been doing recently (+ always, actually :-) with Sim Cain, Dave Lombardo etc. And, perhaps my dream will come true! He is supposed to release something on Ipecac sometime in the future and I doubt that will be modern classical or jewish folk melodies. Could be wrong of course. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grey ElkGel Subject: new nmperign CD on selektion Date: 16 Aug 2001 14:09:57 -0700 (PDT) out now on selektion [germany]: bhob rainey/greg kelley: nmperign CD bhob rainey, soprano saxophone greg kelley, trumpet nmperign formed in 1998 and in that time has performed throughout europe and the united states collaborating w/ jason lescalleet, le quan ninh, phil minton, and jerome noetinger, among others. this is their first CD release in almost 2 years (after releases on twisted village and intransitive) and is the first to focus solely on their work as a duo (previous releases featured collaborations w/ tatsuya nakatani, jason lescalleet and phil gelb). "The nmperign approach is to begin with nothing, and to go from there. Whereas most musicians' sound contains references to certain stylistic precursors and/or influences, Rainey and Kelley seem to have evolved out of the ether." - David Prince, The Santa Fe Reporter "Their language has clear antecedents...but the closer you listen, the less familiar the duo's dialect sounds, with its volatile and idiosyncratic balance of wriggling abstraction and severely rationed lyricism." - Bill Meyer, The Chicago Reader available now via nmperign ($12 + shipping) and later via forced exposure and anomalous. http://www.geocities.com/greyelkgel http://homepage.mac.com/bhobr/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: New CD releases!! Incredible news!!!!!!!! Date: 16 Aug 2001 21:24:30 +0000 Hello guys!! AMAZING NEWS!!!!!!!!! I just read on the Tzadik site that there is a new Masada live double CD being released ("One magical evening on two CDs") and a new "Filmworks" CD feat Cyro Baptista and Erik Friedlander ("one of Zorn’s most beautiful and touching listening experiences")!!! Wauw, I can't wait to get my hands on those beauties!!! The world of new and exiting music is really great!!!!! Blissfully yours, _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project Date: 16 Aug 2001 17:35:00 EDT New things for Zorn to do: 1) Form a sax quartet and perform skewed versions of Peter Brotzman solos. 2) Team up with the world's greatest band, Cardiacs, and make an album even better than _Sing To God_ , the greatest album ever made (of course). 3) Break Kenny G's continuous note record. 4) Turn the charts for _Spillane_ upside-down and re-record them. -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Crump Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project Date: 16 Aug 2001 14:49:45 -0700 While we're wishing, how about a live "happening" with a 24-hour-long version of "Pueblo"? Adjust the arrangement so lung-powered instruments can join in as well. Even better -- a 24-hour-long version of "Leng T'che." Or he could stop writing, gigging and recording for one year, work on his chops, then finish the Classic Guide to Strategy. Any of the above would be okay with me. William Crump - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "& c." Subject: Directions in Music Date: 17 Aug 2001 21:14:56 -0400 I heard about the "directions in music" tour. I know that Herbie Hancock is in the group and that is a Miles Davis/John Coltrane tribute. What's the deal? Is it supposed to be worthwhile? Does any one have any information on the music repertoire of this group? Thanks Zach _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeton Ademaj" Subject: SMILE tonite Date: 18 Aug 2001 01:02:24 -0400 howdy zornlist, with provisional regret fer my lack of posts (i got busy with Visionfest around the time of the QUEER arguments, which btw i'm happy to continue if anyone's interested (which i doubt, from the utter silence that greeted the issue in my absence) and then the whole list went down up down again...) naturally the reason i'm writing is personal spam... *SMILE* Daniel Carter (winds), Dustin Garlitz (t.sax), Chris Hamilton (e.bass), Mike Pride (drums,reeds,voice) and myself (qifteli,guitar,voice) -will be playing the KnitActive Soundstage tonite (sat. the 18th) at 9pm. PS: top twenty LOUD songs (1 per artist(s), mixed order, as of this week): Jimi Hendrix: Drone Blues (either the full length or A. Douglas release) Black Sabbath: Hand Of Doom (brit remasters or orig. vinyl/8trak only) Yes: The Ancient - Giants Under The Sun Diamanda Galas: I Put A Spell On You Last Exit: Brain Damage Duran Duran: A View To A Kill Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan: Ruk Pe Rehmat Ka Wu-Tang Clan : Mysteries of Chessboxin' Led Zeppelin: How Many More Times (BBC 1969) John Coltrane: Om After Hours: Waterfalls (3AM Mix) Masada: Tonic 1/23/99 (i ferget the name, but i always ff to it) Blondie: Call Me Jeff Beck: Play With Me Metallica: The Thing That Should Not Be Public Enemy: Arizona The Who: Heaven And Hell (Live at Leeds) Madonna: Justify My Love (Beast-Within remix) David Bowie: Ashes To Ashes Miles Davis: Yesternow/Theme From Jack Johnson (61 minute undivided track on japanese re-release of Agharta) the following four letters shall justify this spam: Z O R N so mote it be! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "dekater" Subject: Re: jewels & binoculars Date: 18 Aug 2001 12:37:55 +0200 > James Hale wrote: > > > Michael Moore's "Jewels & Binoculars: The Music of Bob Dylan". > > James, > > Tell us some more about this new Moore. Is it Clusone 3. Is Bennink > playing? > > greetings, > Rob @ risk > np: Prince - Girls & Boys In 2000/2001 Michael Moore did a kind of project with four all star European-American quartets. With one of those groups he explored the music of Bob Dylan. This group however was no quartet because David Tronzo (unfortunately?) didn't join in. The other three musicians were Michael Moore, Lindsay Horner and Michael Vatcher. The concerts of this trio were just great. Jan Luyben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Blechmann Subject: Re[2]: The return of JMT Date: 18 Aug 2001 13:27:29 +0200 >> Count me among this poor lot. I've been searching in vain for FFT >> for a couple of years. Any word from Tim on the likeliness of his >> reissuing the JMT stuff? >> >> Berne deficient, >> Tom >> MR> A couple of weeks ago my local record dealer told me that MR> Fractured Fairy Tales is planned for release on Winter & Winter, MR> and that more Berne reissues will follow. i am a bit confused. as far as i know berne and stefan winter had some problems with each other (maybe that's why berne started his own label after working with stefan winter for many years). so i would be surprised if stefan winter would release berne's stuff again. but maybe there is someone on this list who has some insights... PEACE Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.net ICQ: 96771783 http://nav.to/timblech - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project Date: 18 Aug 2001 15:25:59 +0200 Looking at his June Top Ten lists on the Tzadik site, one might suspect he could soon be working on some Balinese Gamelan music... He seems to really be into that stuff at the moment. patRice np: John Coltrane, Transition nr: Roland MC-505 Manual Rob Allaert wrote: > I'm really sorry that this interesting message has some Zorn content. But > I was hoping that some of you still listen to some of his music. You gotta > have at least some sort of exotic wish as to what Zorn has to do next. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "C B" Subject: international sharrock 8-26 Date: 18 Aug 2001 15:08:41 -0400 SONNY SHARROCK RADIO BIRTHDAY SHOW AUGUST 26, 2001 WKCR-FM NYC 89.9 2PM to 7PM www.wkcr.org realaudio "evolve universal operation liberation is dedicated to the conscious and deliberate, elevation of humankind. the only way we can evolve as a people is to build up our spiritual strength and power.... ghetto youths training to be spirit soldiers who use innate weapons of the mind to combat the present state of disharmony and suffering. this is reprogramming...." [digitalgravel.com] Lovevolv.Inc. lovevolv@dti.net NetZero Platinum Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Millie Gorgon" Subject: Zorn & ?Zionism? Date: 19 Aug 2001 07:52:03 -0000 Hi Zornfolk, i'm in the process of a writing an article about Zorn & was wondering -- what do you folks know about his politics? i have run across a statement by composer and sax player Fred Ho that accuses Zorn of being a Zionist. do you suppose there could be any validity to this? and what exactly are the political implications of starting a Radical Jewish scene in NYC, initiating ethnically exclusive projects, etc? i certainly haven't come to any conclusions, and am not sure there really are any clear answers to these questions.... any insights? mg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ryan Novak Subject: Gustafsson/Drake Date: 17 Aug 2001 11:56:11 -0700 (PDT) Hi, A long while back I had a guy offer to burn a copy of "For Don Cherry" (the limited edition Okka CD) for me but I never heard back. Another fellow thought he might sell his too. Let me know what still stands on that privately please. That disc and especially Gustafsson/Lovens' "Nothing to Read" are a couple that really burn my butt being out of print. Their recent tour, which I missed, was also frustratingly titled under this unavailable record's name. Too agonizing for this sax/drum fan. Well, thanks for any help/info, Ryan N. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ryan Blum Subject: NZ Fernando Grillo Date: 19 Aug 2001 15:39:58 -0700 I wanted to ask if anyone has any personal experience with the Italian bassist Fernando Grillo, an incredible virtuoso for whom Stockhausen, Xenakis and Dumitrescu have composed. He has one solo album of his compositions (_Fluvine_, originally on Cramps, rereleased on Ampersand) which is absolutely heavy, and it comes up in conversation on this list once in a while. Through internet searches, I have gathered that he teaches at the Perugia conservatory in Umbria, Italy and plays infrequently, though regularly, around the region. Has anyone studied, or know someone who has studied with him? Does anyone have any recordings of his other compositions (there seem to be a ton)? Has anyone heard the 2 albums of improvisation on JMP that he is a part of? It seems to me that there is far too little information about this guy. Also, it seems from the translations google gave me of some random web pages, that he is performing twice around the Perugia region, on Sept 10 and 11. If anyone is there with a recording device and want to help distribution of his music, I will shower you with gifts and prayers. Thanks, Ryan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@browbeat.com (m. rizzi) Subject: Make The Geek Sweat Date: 20 Aug 2001 08:20:45 -0700 (PDT) Not sure if any of you noticed, but the zorn-list subscriber list was lost to a hard disk failure on Aug. 16th. Luckily I was able to reconstruct the list membership. As of a few minutes ago, it is all back in order. SOoooo, if you sent an email to the list between Aug. 16th and now, you will need to resend it. It is likely that you received a "sorry you need to be a member of the zorn-list to send a message to the subscribers" type of email. Since NO ONE was a member of the list for a couple of days, now you know why you got that message! :) Phew! zorn-list maintenance has been quite the challenge lately. Good thing I'm between jobs, and have the free time :) Maybe once I get a job, the curse of the zorn-list will go away. mike rizzi@browbeat.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: The return of JMT (plus info clearing house) Date: 20 Aug 2001 12:14:08 -0400 Regarding JMT reissues on W&W, first I sed: > Wonder if this means the ten-year hole in Tim Berne's life will soon be > patched. To which my old pal Vince sed: >Be nice - I shudder to think of the poor lot of recent Berne fans who >haven't heard stuff like FRACTURED FAIRY TALES and PACE YOURSELF. I think you've misunderstood me, Vince! I actually *was* being nice - to Tim, if not his record companies. I'm serious about that ten-year hole in Tim's life - it's been a source of great annoyance to him, to everyone who appreciates him, and to everyone who's come along since then and hasn't been able to hear those discs. And let's just say it wasn't *only* Polygram (now Universal) that stood in the way of Tim getting them reissued earlier by himself. I think it's incredibly important that, one way or another, the music gets back out into the marketplace and from there into the hands of listeners who missed it first time around. Tim's stature has grown appreciably since those days, so I can only imagine there is a largish group of people who will be very eager to see these discs return. To this, I'll only add that the two Columbia Berne discs reissued by Koch are now out of print again. So if you've hesitated up to now... well, DMG may still have them, and you should have them, too. Speaking of JMT/Winter & Winter, I note that the Paul Motian Trio (with Frisell and Lovano) is returning to the Village Vanguard this week. Good to see them active again. Frisell will be back at the Vanguard for the first two weeks of October to mark the release of his new album on Nonesuch - the one with Dave Holland and Elvin Jones, imaginatively titled 'Bill Frisell with Dave Holland and Elvin Jones.' That won't be the rhythm section for the gigs, alas - he'll have Scherr and Wollesen the first week, and then they'll be joined by Jenny Scheinman the second week. Finally, for those who were wondering, I hear from Nonesuch that the previously discussed Robin Holcomb disc with Frisell and Zony Mash will almost certainly happen, and if/when it does, it'll be in January or February. I've heard the first cut and it's beautiful - kind of a throwback to the style of 'Rockabye.' Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: the knit Date: 21 Aug 2001 09:40:37 -0700 A few months ago, the Knitting Factory was in danger of closing/liquidating etc. Very little has been said about the subject of late. Does anyone know anything definitive? skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Saariaho Date: 20 Aug 2001 12:39:43 -0400 There's still more worthwhile Saariaho out there, including a good collection of early stuff on Bis and another Ondine disc worth having, with the Los Angeles Philharmonic conducted by Esa-Pekka Salonen (her greatest champion) in two works and the Kronos Quartet in a third. Esa-Pekka's putting his money where his mouth is this month with a disc on Sony Classical - major label breakthrough, though likely short-lived. Gidon Kremer is soloist in 'Graal Theatre' with the BBC Symphony. Dawn Upshaw sings 'Chateau de l'Ame' with the Finnish Radio Symphony. There's one more piece, 'Amers,' for cello and chamber orchestra. This came out in Europe a while back, and is released here in the States on August 28. Pity that no one has seen fit to release her recent opera, 'L'amour de loin.' It's less experimental than most of the instrumental works, and luminously beautiful - maybe the first great French opera since Messiaen's 'Francis of Assisi' or even Debussy's 'Pelleas.' Check out www.petals.org for two more Saariaho discs on a label she co-runs. You'll also find a link to something called 'Prisma,' a CD-ROM release that not only illustrates the music by showing you the score and other notes, but also lets you get in and manipulate the music to clarify its strands and textures. There's even a musical game wherein you construct your own compositions using fragments of her works. (The recordings, for the most part, come from the Ondine releases.) The package was developed by the phenomenally proactive Finnish Music Information Center and IRCAM, and has not been released as a mass-market commerical item (though it's available through the site), but I've heard that it will be released by the French label Naive sometime fairly soon. You'll find more basic info at www.saariaho.org and http://www.schirmer.com/composers/saariaho/bio.html. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ryan Novak Subject: Re: Zorn's next major project Date: 20 Aug 2001 10:01:46 -0700 (PDT) >1) Form a sax quartet and perform skewed versions of >Peter Brotzman solos. > >2) Team up with the world's greatest band, Cardiacs, >and make an album even better than _Sing To God_ , >the >greatest album ever made (of course). > >3) Break Kenny G's continuous note record. > >4) Turn the charts for _Spillane_ upside-down and >re-record them Hi, I think maybe he should try picking up another sax- I wonder why he- to my best knowledge- only plays alto. ---Ryan N. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Andy Marks Subject: Re: Zorn's Next Major Project Date: 20 Aug 2001 10:04:50 -0700 (PDT) I'd really like to see a new Painkiller release. I liked how the last release went off into ambient/dub territory.Maybe he could take it where else. Another thing I think would be cool would be something similar to Big Gundown, new arrangements of other people's material (You can blame Fantomas' Directors Cut for this, great album) Like someone else said, I'm not too keen on the recent classical stuff, but I just don't like that kind of stuff in general. Finally, more stuff along the lines of Spillane, Elegy,Kristallnacht,Godard,Grand Guignol (track 1), Duras __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: the knit Date: 20 Aug 2001 13:03:27 -0400 According to "sources," an individual investor gave the Knit a large injection of money that shored up its books and averted the short-term crisis. Certainly the New York club appears to be more active and interesting lately than in the months prior, although there seems to be more of an alt-rock tilt than ever. Threadgill's playing there soon. And supposedly the club is working on putting together a fall music festival to take the place of the former Verizon Jazz Festival. According to those "sources," the investor may have been Gary Lucas, or a friend of his. It's all pretty vague. "Sources" are funny that way. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Skip Heller Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 12:41 PM A few months ago, the Knitting Factory was in danger of closing/liquidating etc. Very little has been said about the subject of late. Does anyone know anything definitive? skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Kowalski" Subject: the gift Date: 20 Aug 2001 13:09:48 -0400 I finally bought The Gift this past weekend. I remember hearing various = rumblings on the list over the packaging and that was more or less it = (will garner either a chuckle &/or raised eyebrow from curious guests.) = With exception of one track (sorta sci-fi stylin') this is a killer disc = that will get heavy play. Am I just a sucker for Zorn's softer side or = have others found this disc to be right up there with several of the = Filmworks discs, Circle Maker and Bar Kokhba ? happy listening=20 Bob now playing very very loud: My Bloody Valentine's Glider EP, esp. Soon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: The return of JMT (plus info clearing house) Date: 20 Aug 2001 13:18:39 EDT I wrote to Screwgun records a few days ago, inquiring about the rumored W&W "Fractured Fairy Tales" reissue. The reply said, "News to me." Sigh, Tom NP: Whiskeytown -- "Strangers Almanac" In a message dated 8/20/01 12:19:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: > Regarding JMT reissues on W&W, first I sed: > > > Wonder if this means the ten-year hole in Tim Berne's life will soon be > > patched. > > To which my old pal Vince sed: > > >Be nice - I shudder to think of the poor lot of recent Berne fans who > >haven't heard stuff like FRACTURED FAIRY TALES and PACE YOURSELF. > > I think you've misunderstood me, Vince! I actually *was* being nice - to > Tim, if not his record companies. I'm serious about that ten-year hole in > Tim's life - it's been a source of great annoyance to him, to everyone who > appreciates him, and to everyone who's come along since then and hasn't been > able to hear those discs. And let's just say it wasn't *only* Polygram (now > Universal) that stood in the way of Tim getting them reissued earlier by > himself. > > I think it's incredibly important that, one way or another, the music gets > back out into the marketplace and from there into the hands of listeners who > missed it first time around. Tim's stature has grown appreciably since > those days, so I can only imagine there is a largish group of people who > will be very eager to see these discs return. > > To this, I'll only add that the two Columbia Berne discs reissued by Koch > are now out of print again. So if you've hesitated up to now... well, DMG > may still have them, and you should have them, too. ______________________________________________________________________ Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately, and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Scary Neubautens and Butthole Creeps Date: 20 Aug 2001 13:14:21 -0400 Gibby also played varsity basketball while working on his accounting degree at Trinity University in San Antonio. Paul, too, was a part of that accounting department. When I was there, years later, his father was still dean of the economics department. My literature professors told me that Gibby was known for his violent poetry readings on campus. In one of my articles on them for the campus paper, I led a futile campaign for honorary doctorates for the two of them. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Kurt Gottschalk thanks for the butthole reminiscences, steve. a few years ago, i read a pretty good piece about them in, of all places, rolling stone. the writer (whose name i forgetted) led the piece with a long story about gibby playing touch football in his yard, and how he was a star quarterback in high school. the point of explaining all this, the author went on to say, was to show where he got the skills required to bean a heckler in the back of the room in the head with a full can of beer. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: Scary Neubautens and Butthole Creeps Date: 20 Aug 2001 13:23:45 EDT In a message dated 8/20/01 1:19:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: > Gibby also played varsity basketball while working on his accounting degree > at Trinity University in San Antonio. Paul, too, was a part of that > accounting department. When I was there, years later, his father was still > dean of the economics department. My literature professors told me that > Gibby was known for his violent poetry readings on campus. In one of my > articles on them for the campus paper, I led a futile campaign for honorary > doctorates for the two of them. > > Steve Smith > ssmith36@sprynet.com My one Buttholes concert saw Gibby storming onstage with a shotgun, which he proceeded to fire into the crowd. It of course fired only blanks, but the crowd didn't realize that for 10 or 15 terrifying seconds. Tom _____________________________________________________________________ Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately, and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Scary Neubautens and Butthole Creeps Date: 20 Aug 2001 13:26:15 -0400 Lollapalooza, I take it? Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Samerivertwice@aol.com My one Buttholes concert saw Gibby storming onstage with a shotgun, which he proceeded to fire into the crowd. It of course fired only blanks, but the crowd didn't realize that for 10 or 15 terrifying seconds. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "dekater" Subject: re: jewels&binoculars Date: 20 Aug 2001 19:32:08 +0200 > James Hale wrote: > > > Michael Moore's "Jewels & Binoculars: The Music of Bob Dylan". > > James, > > Tell us some more about this new Moore. Is it Clusone 3. Is Bennink > playing? > > greetings, > Rob @ risk > np: Prince - Girls & Boys In 2000/2001 Michael Moore did a kind of project with four all star European-American quartets. With one of those groups he explored the music of Bob Dylan. This group however was no quartet because David Tronzo (unfortunately?) didn't join in. The other three musicians were Michael Moore, Lindsay Horner and Michael Vatcher. The concerts of this trio were just great. Jan Luyben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: Scary Neubautens and Butthole Creeps Date: 20 Aug 2001 13:44:11 EDT In a message dated 8/20/01 1:30:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: > Lollapalooza, I take it? > > Steve Smith > ssmith36@sprynet.com Precisely. BTW: The Rollins Band released a promo that contains a blistering impromptu jam with the Buttholes. ______________________________________________________________________ Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately, and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: New Seigen Ono record with Zorn, Ribot, etc Date: 20 Aug 2001 11:06:05 -0700 DMG has the curious following record listed: 25.SEIGEN ONO-Maria & Maria (Saidera Records 1017/Japan) Featuring John Zorn, Marc Ribot, Peter Scherer, Joey Baron, Romero Lubambo, Jill Jaffe, Jane Scarpantoni and Maxine Neuman. Recorded in five speaker surround sound and placed in a lush eleven page booklet with cute/slightly bizarre artwork worthy of a Zorn release - the music is quaint, sad, elegant, playful, delicate and not very downtown, although eventually Zorn, Ribot & Baron do cut loose and erupt. $25. Does anybody know when it was released? Thanks, Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Re: jewels&binoculars Date: 20 Aug 2001 14:13:28 -0400 The CD was recorded on that tour. Five tracks were recorded at the Grand Theatre in Groningen, Holland, on Dec. 3, though no audience noise is evident. The other tracks were cut in Brussels at a studio on Nov. 29 and 30. James Hale dekater wrote: > > James Hale wrote: > > > > > Michael Moore's "Jewels & Binoculars: The Music of Bob Dylan". > > > > James, > > > > Tell us some more about this new Moore. Is it Clusone 3. Is Bennink > > playing? > > > > greetings, > > Rob @ risk > > np: Prince - Girls & Boys > > In 2000/2001 Michael Moore did a kind of project with four all star > European-American quartets. > With one of those groups he explored the music of Bob Dylan. This group > however was no quartet because David Tronzo (unfortunately?) didn't join in. > The other three musicians were Michael Moore, Lindsay Horner and Michael > Vatcher. The concerts of this trio were just great. > > Jan Luyben > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kurt Gottschalk" Subject: Re: fate of the knit Date: 20 Aug 2001 18:20:35 +0000 >A few months ago, the Knitting Factory was in danger of closing/liquidating >etc. Very little has been said about the subject of late. Does anyone >know >anything definitive? not sure how good of stead they're in, but much better than they were. in no small part, that's because gary lucas arranged for some european investors to bail dorf out. so is that going to make gary the knit's new poster boy? not a thing against him. i love his playing (his new chinese pop songs project with gisburg is really great), but he would now seem primed for the knit's particular penchant for branding. remember when they invented klezmer (JAM - jewish alternative music). even back when the enterprise was admirable (or before i knew it wasn't), that level of trademarking was evident ("what is jazz"). rashied ali's label became 'knit classics' (not 'jazz classics' or some such). and so on. not to mention the fact that they found a little corner outside the tap bar where there -- *gasp* -- wasn't a cash register. that situation has been resolved. but perhaps the most annoying to me is the 'downtown isn't just a zip code' campaign, with a huge photo of, of all people, james 'blood' ulmer. i love ulmer's playing too, mebbe even moreso than lucas. but does he really typify 'downtown'? especially since he seems to play uptown more often? blues and harmolodics are not primary components of whatever it is "downtown" is, methinks. and seeing his picture huge as a graphic for new cd releases that don't include him is just odd. maybe they couldn't find a photo of elliot sharp to plaster all over carnation. kicking a dog when it's getting up, kurt _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: fate of the knit Date: 20 Aug 2001 11:24:25 -0700 On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:20:35 +0000 "Kurt Gottschalk" wrote: > > > >A few months ago, the Knitting Factory was in danger of closing/liquidating > >etc. Very little has been said about the subject of late. Does anyone > >know > >anything definitive? > > not sure how good of stead they're in, but much better than they were. in no > small part, that's because gary lucas arranged for some european investors > to bail dorf out. Investors? And I thought they were more careful these days :-). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: fate of the knit Date: 20 Aug 2001 14:23:32 -0400 The very first time I ever saw one of those "zip code" ads, it was in fact plastered on a photo of E#. Good points about commodification of music and cultcha - one of the prime beefs that most musicians have leveled at the Knit, though many have clearly benefitted from such branding. In the new issue of Jazz Times, there's a long article on the radical Jewish culture thing by Howard Mandel. Mandel caught Sharp in an unguarded moment at Tonic, and he says some pretty pointed things about the Radical Jewish Culture series on Tzadik... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Kurt Gottschalk Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 2:21 PM but perhaps the most annoying to me is the 'downtown isn't just a zip code' campaign, with a huge photo of, of all people, james 'blood' ulmer. [snip] maybe they couldn't find a photo of elliot sharp to plaster all over carnation. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "richard ladew" Subject: Tzadik Radio Hour Date: 20 Aug 2001 15:35:53 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 11:38 PM > Has anyone heard the Tzadik radio hour hosted by Zorn? Like the Zorn Radio > Hour from 1990ish, it is hosted by Zorn, but this one features only Tzadik > artists. I just stumbled across it at the radio station I work at. It's > much more enjoyable than the Hermetic Theater.... > > NP:Tzadik Radio Hour > NR: Steve Martin "Shopgirl" > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Fwd: Zorn & ?Zionism? Date: 20 Aug 2001 22:50:50 +0200 (CEST) > Hi Zornfolk, > i'm in the process of a writing an article about > Zorn & was wondering -- > what do you folks know about his politics? According to what Zorn answered to that question to a Spanish magazine, he is not interested in politics at all. Musically, he just intended to "find new paths in Jewish music" with his Masada project, but as you well point out, the fact that he has gathered a large number of Jewish musicians around him and devoted a complete series through Tzadik to them makes the whole thing a bit suspicious. IMHO he has taken the "protectionist" role with the Jewish musicians, an attitude that I really think can become narrow-minded and maybe even exclusivist as the past has shown repeatedly. Just an opinion. Regards, Efrén PS: Now looking forward to the Slippenbach trio concert in Barcelona on August 30 (with Evan Parker!!!) _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger: Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente - http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: Re: Tzadik Radio Hour Date: 20 Aug 2001 21:12:36 >Has anyone heard the Tzadik radio hour hosted by Zorn? Like the >Zorn >Radio Hour from 1990ish, it is hosted by Zorn, but this one >features only >Tzadik artists. I just stumbled across it at the radio >station I work at. >It's much more enjoyable than the Hermetic >Theater.... Yes, I have this (but can't make copies since it's on the other side of the country now, sorry). I guess he does a good job of picking out some of the more interesting stuff from the catalog, which was patchy even back then (early '99?), and he is really enthusiastic. But I guess you would have to be really enthusiastic to come up with some of those obi/press release descriptions. Oh, man. But the other Zorn Radio hour is even better, it was the first time I heard James BLood Ulmer's 'Black Rock', Napalm Death's Peel Sessions stuff or Lennie Tristano's 'Line-Up.' Zorn does have good taste. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert Subject: Beuysblock is Great Date: 20 Aug 2001 23:13:19 +0200 Zorn-agains, Must say, the Bueysblock track with the many many sounds is really inspiring. I love it. (Although I didn't care for the power saw noise). It alone ( + cover art) makes the purchase worthwhile. greetings, Rob @ risk np: Madness, Love & Mysticism - Zorn John - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project Date: 20 Aug 2001 14:17:20 -0700 Benjamin, On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:58:19 -0400 Benjamin Pequet wrote: > > At 13:34 16/08/01 -0700, proussel@ichips.intel.com wrote: > >I think that the best that could happen to Zorn is to drop *100%* Masada. > >Masada has almost killed my interest in Zorn, and since his classical > >compositions are, IMHO, quite weak and derivative, > > Agreed 100% on what you write about masada above, and 0% on your comment > about Zorn's classical output which is unfounded IMHO. (I am curious - > derivative from what?) I don't know your background (rock, jazz, contemporary?), but with the main exception of ELEGY and KRISTALLNACHT, I find Zorn's classical compositions to be nice exercizes with little originality (or surprise). What he is doing with most of his recent classical compositions does not reach, IMHO, the ankle of what he did with his game pieces, and other 80's projects (LOCUS SOLUS). Nice seems to be the qualifier that applies the best to most of his classical production, and we all know how much credit we can give to this qualifier. I am almost tempted to establish a parallel with Zappa who reached a relative (still small) classical credibility with what was not his most orginal and groundbreaking output. Patrice. NP: Product of the Environment - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project Date: 20 Aug 2001 23:30:35 +0200 Patrice, You don't like Masada, you don't like his classical stuff, you probably don't like the hermetic songs. Maybe you should get ready for the "Van Halen-mailing list" ;-) >>> I think that the best that could happen to Zorn is to drop *100%* >>> Masada. >>> Masada has almost killed my interest in Zorn, and since his classical >>> compositions are, IMHO, quite weak and derivative, greetings, Rob @ risk np: M, L & Mysticism - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project Date: 20 Aug 2001 14:53:41 -0700 On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:30:35 +0200 Rob Allaert wrote: > > Patrice, > > You don't like Masada, you don't like his classical stuff, you probably > don't like the hermetic songs. Maybe you should get ready for the "Van > Halen-mailing list" ;-) Fortunately there are more alternatives than Van Halen :-). Seriously, am I the only one to think that Zorn's 90's production pales in comparison to the 80's one, as far as groundbreaking ideas are concerned? I sometimes feel that he has found a nice cozy niche (his label, his buddies, his town, his club, etc), and that there is no fresh blood anymore to mess up the whole thing. Almost like a king surrounded by obedient vassals who never dare to make any critic... Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project Date: 20 Aug 2001 18:01:15 EDT In a message dated 8/20/01 5:54:46 PM, proussel@ichips.intel.com writes: << am I the only one to think that Zorn's 90's production pales in comparison to the 80's one, as far as groundbreaking ideas are concerned? >> no, of course not. most people think this, at least the ones I talk to. haven't we been over this ground before here? <> I'd say that's a pretty dead on statement also. I'd add that the quality control at Tzadik, especially over the last few years, is among the worst of any experimental label I can think of. Yo! I Killed your God, indeed. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: Beuysblock is Great Date: 20 Aug 2001 15:22:54 -0700 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Rob Allaert > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 2:13 PM > Must say, the Bueysblock track with the many many sounds is really > inspiring. I love it. I agree -- too bad I can't say the same for the other tracks! I have nothing against Zorn's experiments in this vein of "computer music," but the thing is, noise and electro-glitch artists are a dime a dozen, and there are already a good handful of folks who do that sort of thing extremely well. (There's a nice texture to "The Nerve Key," but anything by Autechre or Aube or Bernhard Gunter (turned way up) crushes it like a grape.) Later, Ben my pick of the week: http://www.thebankoftime.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Knutboy@aol.com Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project Date: 20 Aug 2001 18:21:52 EDT --part1_54.1980cd75.28b2e780_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I also agree. Some of his champer pieces I find interesting, but overall I find his never ending output to be quite dull. "The Gift" was a complete burdon and obligation for me to get through. I was in the habit of picking up anything he released, but that has now stopped. Now it's all Mego and Erstwhile for me... Steve --part1_54.1980cd75.28b2e780_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I also agree. Some of his champer pieces I find interesting, but overall I
find his never ending output to be quite dull. "The Gift" was a complete
burdon and obligation for me to get through. I was in the habit of picking up
anything he released, but that has now stopped. Now it's all Mego and
Erstwhile for me...

Steve --part1_54.1980cd75.28b2e780_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Crump Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project Date: 20 Aug 2001 15:53:57 -0700 I agree with Patrice's comments, and think he's made two comments that cut most deeply to the heart of the matter, especially: >>I sometimes feel that he has found a nice cozy niche (his label, his buddies, his town, his club, etc), and that there is no fresh blood anymore to mess up the whole thing. Almost like a king surrounded by obedient vassals who never dare to make any critic...<< Whatever goals JZ may have set for himself in the last several years may interest him, but they don't interest me. And he definitely hasn't put himself in any dangerous or even adventurous musical situations as an improvisor. The nice cozy niche is rocking him into a stupor with a Downtown Lullaby. And the comparison to Frank Zappa is very well made. To support that, I want to mention a couple of releases that really highlight some great compositions, but which are not necessarily the compositions that the "classical community" turned attention to. "Music by Frank Zappa" by the Omnibus Wind Ensemble and "Frank Zappa on Baroque Instruments" by the Ensemble Ambrosius are really tasty, and they're what I listen to when I want to listen to Zappa these days, but there's no sign of Sinister Footwear, Mo 'n' Herb's Vacation, any of the LSO stuff. Zorn the composer probably won't be properly evaluated until after his death, the way I think it was with Zappa, but I'll go out on a ledge and say that if he quit composing now, he wouldn't measure up against other 20th/21st century composers. Prone to generalization and sweeping pronouncements, William Crump - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project Date: 20 Aug 2001 17:28:49 -0500 On Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 03:53:57PM -0700, William Crump wrote: > Zorn > the composer probably won't be properly evaluated until after his death, the way > I think it was with Zappa, but I'll go out on a ledge and say that if he quit > composing now, he wouldn't measure up against other 20th/21st century composers. I'm hopeful that he would -- but guess that had he stopped in, say, 1994, the measure would be about the same. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams Subject: Re: Zorn's Next Major Project Date: 20 Aug 2001 18:33:57 -0400 --Boundary_(ID_vvIZLjsJfi75nkqMsOEt/w) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >Another thing I think would be cool would be something >similar to Big Gundown, new arrangements of other people's material Amen, or how about some studio versions of all the great cover arrangements he did for Naked City. There must be fifty or more, here's just the ones I know of; E Cars (Ornette Coleman) Surfer girl (Brian Wilson) Church Key ( Arnold) Erotico (Morricone) Back In The Earth (Live Skull) Once Upon A Time In America (Morricone) Theme From Taxi Driver (Herrmann) Theme From Body Heat (Barry) The Man From Uncle (?) Theme From Hawaii 5-0 (?) Peter Gunn theme (Mancini) Theme From Henry, Portrait Of A Serial Killer (?) Pet Sounds (Brian Wilson) In My Room (Brian Wilson) Baja (Morricone) Broken Shadows (Ornette Coleman) Super Stupid (P-Funk) Zapata (Morricone) The Yodel (?) Strange Cargo (?) Truth or Dare (Zorn) Spagetti & Cheese (Morricone) The Mystery song (Ellington) Funky Stuff (Larry Davis) You Only Live Twice (Barry) A Night In Tunisia (Ellington) Rosemary's Baby (K.Komeda) The List of Adrian Messenger (Goldsmith) The Cincinatti Kid (Schifrin) Mr Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (from Thunderball) Kaila (?) Graveyard Of The Brotherhood (?) Baby Doll (Ellington) Rapid Shave (Shirley Scott) Sunset Surfer (Zorn) Jezebel (?) The Bad & The Beautiful (?) Lying on the Sofa of Life (DNA) The Way It Feels (Patton) The Poverty theme (Morricone) The Cincinatti Kid (Schifrin) Devils Island (Shorter) Mary T (?) Milano Odea (Morricone) Ride On A Dolphin (Smith) Ski Scene(From Thunderball) Our Man Flint (Goldsmith) --Boundary_(ID_vvIZLjsJfi75nkqMsOEt/w) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Re: Zorn's Next Major Project
Another thing I think would be cool would be something
similar to Big Gundown, new arrangements of other
people's material

Amen, or how about some studio versions of all the great cover arrangements he did for Naked City.
There must be fifty or more, here's just the ones I know of;

E Cars  (Ornette Coleman)
Surfer girl (Brian Wilson)
Church Key ( Arnold)
Erotico (Morricone)
Back In The Earth  (Live Skull)
Once Upon A Time In America  (Morricone)
Theme From Taxi Driver (Herrmann)
Theme From Body Heat (Barry)
The Man From Uncle  (?)
Theme From Hawaii 5-0  (?)
Peter Gunn theme (Mancini)
Theme From Henry, Portrait Of A Serial Killer  (?)
Pet Sounds  (Brian Wilson)
In My Room  (Brian Wilson)
Baja  (Morricone)
Broken Shadows   (Ornette Coleman)
Super Stupid (P-Funk)
Zapata  (Morricone)
The Yodel  (?)
Strange Cargo (?)
Truth or Dare  (Zorn)
Spagetti & Cheese  (Morricone)
The Mystery song (Ellington)
Funky Stuff (Larry Davis)
You Only Live Twice (Barry)
A Night In Tunisia (Ellington)
Rosemary's Baby (K.Komeda)
The List of Adrian Messenger (Goldsmith)
The Cincinatti Kid (Schifrin)
Mr Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (from Thunderball)
Kaila (?)
Graveyard Of The Brotherhood  (?)
Baby Doll  (Ellington)
Rapid Shave (Shirley Scott)
Sunset Surfer (Zorn)
Jezebel (?)
The Bad & The Beautiful  (?)
Lying on the Sofa of Life  (DNA)
The Way It Feels (Patton)
The Poverty theme   (Morricone)
The Cincinatti Kid (Schifrin)
Devils Island (Shorter)
Mary T (?)
Milano Odea (Morricone)
Ride On A Dolphin (Smith)
Ski Scene(From Thunderball)
Our Man Flint (Goldsmith)
--Boundary_(ID_vvIZLjsJfi75nkqMsOEt/w)-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "josephneff" Subject: RE: Old Zorn vs. New Zorn etc. Date: 20 Aug 2001 21:56:34 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0137_01C129C2.FAC0AD10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, ....I will agree that I prefer to listen to Zorns 80's output to = his 90's/current stuff, but I suspect in my case this has as much to do = with my first hearing his early stuff first, at the tail end of the = 80's. Most of the newer releases that I've heard lack the urgency and = power that were present on something like Spy vs. Spy. An exception to = this would be Masada, but that's a whole other ball of wax. 10+ discs = doesn't sit well with me, because I can't afford to be a completist (not = unless I bought only Zorn's music, and that will never happen), and it = stunned me to read posts regarding the Hermetic Theatre which stated how = many people were once completists, but no longer. I haven't heard a Zorn = disc that came in any proximity to the word bad, but some of what I've = heard is just "there", and the amount of Masada can't be called anything = but self-indulgent (but not the group's music). "...East Asian Bar = Bands" is great, though.=20 ....what would I like to see Zorn do next? Well, I'd like to see = him reexamine some old territory in a new way. How a bout a new duo = album with Chadbourne, but this time in a jazz mode, maybe tackling the = duo record that Jim Hall and Ornette never recorded. He's released = discs inspired by writers such as Genet and Duras, but I'd like to hear = some music inspired by the poets that he likes. Someone posted a good = while back that Zorn was interested in the Language Poets-- some new = work involving the writing of these poets would be welcome by me. But = maybe not by the non-poetry fans on the list. ....boy, it's grand that the list is back up and running again. = Some great recent art experiences to come my way have included: Roland = Kirk "Live in Copenhagen" LP "Cockfighter" DVD dir. Monte Hellman Railroad Jerk "Third Rail" CD August Harper's Magazine w/ Robert Coover short story & George Plimpton = article on Terry Southern Sound Collector 6 magazine & CD "Postmodern American Poetry" ed. Paul Hoover Washboard Sam w/ Big Bill Broonzy and Memphis Slim "Feeling Lowdown" LP I remain.... Joseph NP: Marion Brown Quartet CD (ESP Disk) NR: Joseph McElroy "Lookout Cartridge" (about 100 pgs to go...totally = recommended!) ------=_NextPart_000_0137_01C129C2.FAC0AD10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,
        ....I will = agree that I=20 prefer to listen to Zorns 80's output to his 90's/current stuff, but I = suspect=20 in my case this has as much to do with my first hearing his early stuff = first,=20 at the tail end of the 80's. Most of the newer releases that I've heard = lack the=20 urgency and power that were present on something like Spy vs. = Spy. An=20 exception to this would be Masada, but that's a whole other ball of wax. = 10+=20 discs doesn't sit well with me, because I can't afford to be a = completist (not=20 unless I bought only Zorn's music, and that will never happen), and it = stunned=20 me to read posts regarding the Hermetic Theatre which stated how many = people=20 were once completists, but no longer. I haven't heard a Zorn disc that = came in=20 any proximity to the word bad, but some of what I've heard is=20 just "there", and the amount of Masada can't be called anything but = self-indulgent (but not the group's music). "...East Asian Bar Bands" is = great,=20 though. 
 
     ....what would = I like to=20 see Zorn do next? Well, I'd like to see him reexamine some old territory = in a=20 new way. How a bout a new duo album with Chadbourne, but this = time in a=20 jazz mode, maybe tackling the duo record that Jim Hall and Ornette = never=20 recorded.  He's released discs = inspired by=20 writers such as Genet and Duras, but I'd like to hear some music = inspired by the=20 poets that he likes. Someone posted a good while back that Zorn was = interested=20 in the Language Poets-- some new work involving the writing of these = poets would=20 be welcome by me. But maybe not by the non-poetry fans on the = list.
 
      ....boy, = it's grand=20 that the list is back up and running again. Some great recent art = experiences to=20 come my way have included: Roland Kirk "Live in Copenhagen" = LP
"Cockfighter" DVD dir. Monte = Hellman
Railroad Jerk "Third Rail" = CD
August Harper's Magazine w/ Robert = Coover short=20 story & George Plimpton article on Terry Southern
Sound Collector 6 magazine & = CD
"Postmodern American Poetry" ed. Paul=20 Hoover
Washboard Sam w/ Big Bill Broonzy and = Memphis Slim=20 "Feeling Lowdown" LP
 
I remain....
 
Joseph
 
NP: Marion Brown Quartet CD (ESP = Disk)
NR: Joseph McElroy "Lookout Cartridge" = (about 100=20 pgs to go...totally recommended!)
------=_NextPart_000_0137_01C129C2.FAC0AD10-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: RE: The return of JMT (plus info clearing house) Date: 21 Aug 2001 02:43:47 +0000 >From: "Steve Smith" >Regarding JMT reissues on W&W, first I sed: > > > Wonder if this means the ten-year hole in Tim Berne's life will soon be > > patched. A friend just emailed Uri Caine through his website, inquiring about the possibility of 'Toys' being reissued. Apparently he replied saying it will be coming out on Winter and Winter "sometime" in the future, and that all the other JMT titles will eventually be reissued on W&W... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn's next major project Date: 20 Aug 2001 23:07:25 EDT How would everyone here feel about Zorn doing another "standards" -type release, highlighting some jazz musician(s) whose output has been overlooked? I still enjoy his Sunny Clark Memorial/_Voodoo_ release. Way cool stuff... -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: Zorn's next major project Date: 21 Aug 2001 03:35:17 +0000 Join the Butthole Surfers... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Zorn's Next Major Project Date: 21 Aug 2001 22:33:53 -0700 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3081278033_516456_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Amen, or how about some studio versions of all the great cover arrangements he did for Naked City. There must be fifty or more, here's just the ones I know of; and here are the correct composer credits therein: Funky Stuff (Larry Davis) actually, Kool and the Gang A Night In Tunisia (Ellington) Dizzy Gillespie Baby Doll (Ellington) the great Kenyon Hopkins The Bad & The Beautiful David Raksin skip h --MS_Mac_OE_3081278033_516456_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: Zorn's Next Major Project


Amen, or how about some studio versions of all the great cover arrangements= he did for Naked City.
There must be fifty or more, here's just the ones I know of;

and here are the correct composer credits therein:

Funky Stuff (Larry Davis)
actually, Kool and the Gang

A Night In Tunisia (Ellington)
Dizzy Gillespie

Baby Doll  (Ellington)
the great Kenyon Hopkins

The Bad & The Beautiful  
          D= avid Raksin

skip h --MS_Mac_OE_3081278033_516456_MIME_Part-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Vuilleumier=2C_St=E9phane=22?= Subject: RE: Old Zorn vs. New Zorn etc. Date: 21 Aug 2001 09:02:32 +0200 Hi, -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 3:57 AM > ....what would I like to see Zorn do next? Well, I'd like to see=20 > him reexamine some old territory in a new way. How a bout a new duo > album with Chadbourne, but this time in a jazz mode, maybe tackling=20 > the duo record that Jim Hall and Ornette never recorded. While we're on zorn-critical mode, what about qualifying his alto style?=20 His Spy versus Spy sax sound never really did it for me=20 compared to the original Ornette (and I *know* many here will disagree). I used to find JZ's style quite his own (albeit a bit flat for me),=20 until last week in fact, when I hit upon Charles Tyler playing alto on "Collective Improvisations" with Wilber Morris (1981) - now that sounded *a lot* like Zorn alto sax. In fact, I'm quite sure Charles Tyler was an influence on Zorn, there's a recent reissue on Chadbourne's label of an EC/Tyler live duet from 1977 which was recorded by Zorn. St=E9phane=20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Zorn's next major project Date: 21 Aug 2001 11:27:05 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- > How would everyone here feel about Zorn doing another "standards" -type release, highlighting >some jazz musician(s) whose output has been overlooked? I still enjoy his Sunny Clark >Memorial/_Voodoo_ release. Way cool stuff... Is it just my problem, or is that disc , as many others from the early '80s, very poorly recorded? The sound is flat. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: "lookout cartridge" (was: old zorn vs. new zorn etc.) Date: 21 Aug 2001 16:24:33 +0200 Joseph wrote: >NR: Joseph McElroy "Lookout Cartridge" (about 100 pgs to go...totally >recommended!) Hi there. Can you maybe tell me (us) a little more about this book? Why should I read it? Thanks!!! patRice np: Ustad Alla Rakha & Zakir Hussain, Tabla Duet nr: Nick Hornby, How To Be Good - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: New music for string quartet on Mappings, week of August 21, 2001 Date: 21 Aug 2001 04:00:00 -0700 Hi y'all, This week on Mappings , you'll hear lots of music for string quartet by Franghiz Ali-Zadeh, John Cage, Henry Cowell, Ruth Crawford Seeger, Tina Davidson, Fred Frith, Heinz Holliger, Eleanor Hovda, Gyorgy Ligeti, Ingram Marshall, Conlon Nancarrow, Phill Niblock, Bob Ostertag, John Oswald, Steve Reich, Kaija Saariaho, Giaconto Scelsi, Lois V Vierk, and Julia Wolfe. The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0800 GMT) and will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program (featuring music for brass and electronics by Martin Bartlett, JA Deane, Stuart Dempster, Tom Heasley, George E Lewis, Luigi Nono, and Giancarlo Schiaffini) is still available in the Mappings archive , where you can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998. Hope you tune in to the program. Bests, Herb - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Samuel Quentin" Subject: Re: Gustafsson/Drake Date: 21 Aug 2001 11:46:03 -0500 well, can't help you with finding the 'Nothing To Read' album, i never heard it. but i did catch the tour and holy hot fuck it was great. i saw them in Austin, TX. i know that doesn't make you feel any better but i guess i was just wondering if anyone else here on the list made that show and if they can tell me how it compares to a usual live show by one or both of these two? -samuel Hi, A long while back I had a guy offer to burn a copy of "For Don Cherry" (the limited edition Okka CD) for me but I never heard back. Another fellow thought he might sell his too. Let me know what still stands on that privately please. That disc and especially Gustafsson/Lovens' "Nothing to Read" are a couple that really burn my butt being out of print. Their recent tour, which I missed, was also frustratingly titled under this unavailable record's name. Too agonizing for this sax/drum fan. Well, thanks for any help/info, Ryan N. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Samuel Quentin" Subject: Re: Zorn's next major project Date: 21 Aug 2001 11:51:29 -0500 Hi, I think maybe he should try picking up another sax- I wonder why he- to my best knowledge- only plays alto. ---Ryan N. Perhaps he likens himself to a samurai, who's only sword is akin to his only soul. -samuel (who only plays alto) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Samuel Quentin" Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project Date: 21 Aug 2001 12:12:55 -0500 I think i can agree that as far as groundbreaking ideas are concerned that the 80's output acheived much more... but, the Masada issue aside, i feel like i haven't really minded because i feel like certain examples of the 90's output show a sense of refining those breakthrough's, though sometimes also just rehashing a bit too much, and, like you say, staying in a niche that has brought him pretty decent recognition for an 'experiemental' type. -samuel patrice wrote: Seriously, am I the only one to think that Zorn's 90's production pales in comparison to the 80's one, as far as groundbreaking ideas are concerned? I sometimes feel that he has found a nice cozy niche (his label, his buddies, his town, his club, etc), and that there is no fresh blood anymore to mess up the whole thing. Almost like a king surrounded by obedient vassals who never dare to make any critic... Patrice. - _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project Date: 21 Aug 2001 13:23:03 -0400 (EDT) True, It's amazing how these post-death evaluations work. In Jazz, form instance, some of us who were around in the 1960s and 1970 thought Charles Mingus, Ornette Coleman, Thelonious Monk and Cecil Taylor were important composers. Now, if you're to believe the popular press, it was only the late Duke Ellington and Louis Armstrong who are important. Ken Waxman --- Joseph Zitt wrote: > On Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 03:53:57PM -0700, William > Crump wrote: > > > Zorn the composer probably won't be properly evaluated until after his death, the way I think it was with Zappa _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Zorn's next major project Date: 21 Aug 2001 13:28:58 -0400 (EDT) OK, there are plenty of composers of jazz standards who could use some extra "downtown" popularity. Off the top of my head I'd say Gigi Gyrce, Benny Golson, Oliver Nelson, Kenny Dorham, Budd Johnson, Gerry Mulligan, Paul Desmond, Clifford Jordan, Julius Watkins, J.J. Johnson ... and that's just the horn players. But if Zorn really wanted to raise a stink he could do a standards project made up of the "compositions" of Wynton, Delfayo, Ellis and Brandford Marsalis. Ken Waxman --- Dgasque@aol.com wrote: > How would everyone here feel about Zorn doing > another "standards" -type release, highlighting some > jazz musician(s) whose output has been overlooked? > I still enjoy his Sunny Clark Memorial/_Voodoo_ > release. Way cool stuff... > > -- > =dg= > > - > _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M Pathos" Subject: Re: Zorn's next major Project Date: 21 Aug 2001 11:32:23 -0600 "I think i can agree that as far as groundbreaking ideas are concerned. . ." I thought a fundamental tenet of postmodernism was the acknowledgement that there are no new ideas. To hell with "groundbreaking," why doesn't somebody ? anybody ? try to do something simple and sincere? That may sound naive, but to do this well requires tremendous concentration, energy, and thought the like of which isn't required just to splurt out some "new" loopy pseudo-avant-garde mess. People don't feel classic Coltrane, Brotzman, Miles or Louis because any of them blew longest, loudest, or fastest but because they brought a unique sensibility and sensitivity to their instruments that's communicated for listeners to commune with. Maybe the majority of musicians in this programmed age, Zorn included, have lost touch with the distinctive qualities that attract(ed) audiences to their art in the first place. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Zorn's next major Project Date: 21 Aug 2001 10:39:25 -0700 On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:32:23 -0600 "M Pathos" wrote: > > "I think i can agree that as far as groundbreaking ideas are concerned. . ." > > > I thought a fundamental tenet of postmodernism was the acknowledgement that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That makes sense only if you attribute any credibility of postmodernism... > there are no new ideas. To hell with "groundbreaking," why doesn't somebody > ? anybody ? try to do something simple and sincere? That may sound naive, > but to do this well requires tremendous concentration, energy, and thought > the like of which isn't required just to splurt out some "new" loopy > pseudo-avant-garde mess. Why not, but Zorn came to recognition for significant groundbreaking music. You can't avoid that people who have been following him since almost the beginning whine for not finding anymore what attracted them in the first place. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Crump Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project Date: 21 Aug 2001 10:40:40 -0700 I don't necessarily believe the popular press...good point, though. I was thinking more of post-death evaluations by musicians looking for interesting additions to their repertoire, and not having to deal with the intimidation of The Composer giving them the hairy eyeball. (viz. Zorn's insistence on control over game pieces by passing them along orally, and mixed feelings about guerilla versions.) That's why I think that Omnibus' and Ambrosius' Zappa projects work much better than, say, the Meridian Arts Ensemble's FZ arrangements. They (Meridian) were maybe too eager to get FZ's seal of approval just before he died, and perhaps weren't adventurous enough with the arrangements. Or perhaps it was the limitations of the instrumentation (brass quintet plus drums)? I don't know enough about chamber music to say, but I know what I like, and I like Omnibus and Ambrosius. I just hope I live long enough to hear some radical variations on Zorn's work by people who aren't being conducted by JZ sitting on the floor in front of them. William Crump Ken Waxman wrote: > True, It's amazing how these post-death evaluations work. > In Jazz, form instance, some of us who were around in > the 1960s and 1970 thought Charles Mingus, Ornette > Coleman, Thelonious Monk and Cecil Taylor were > important composers. > Now, if you're to believe the popular press, it was > only the late Duke Ellington and Louis Armstrong who > are important. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "josephneff" Subject: RE: "Lookout Cartridge" Date: 21 Aug 2001 14:08:18 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006A_01C12A4A.BA924860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, ....for PatRice and all others interested, "Lookout Cartridge" = is a novel of post-modernist fiction by Joseph McElroy, who is probably = best known for his 1000+ pg. tome "Women and Men". "LC" is comparable to = works by William Gaddis and Thomas Pynchon, though it is also = distinctive from, say, "The Recognitions" by Gaddis or "Gravity's = Rainbow" by Pynchon, in that "Cartridge" is more economical at under 550 = pgs. and also McElroy doesn't go on flights of absurdity that Pynchon = did in "Rainbow" (no talking dogs or trips into the sewer via the = commode). He's similar to Gaddis in that he dispenses with quotation = marks to indicate spoken passages by characters, but where Gaddis = follows the style that Joyce used, McElroy often lets his bits of = dialogue appear in the middle of paragraphs, though surprisingly this = doesn't make "Cartridge" particularly difficult to read. It goes down = smoother than either of the above mentioned novels, though I don't think = I'd rate "Cartridge" as large an achievement as "The Recognitions" or = "Rainbow".=20 ....all this being said, at its core, "Cartridge" is a suspense = novel about the making of an avant-garde film. It's brilliant in the = amount of pure information that gets spit out, so much of it regarding = characters and events that intertwine in an uncompromising fashion that = can result, for me, in moments of information overload, where I'm left = rereading bits of text in an attempt to assure that I'm digesting all = the connections necessary to understand the narrative. This being said, = McElroy does a good job in solidifying all the essential bits and = combines this with moments of personal remembrance by his narrator that = add a welcome emotional weight to the story. There is a rather = outstanding part where the narrator recalls how he and his wife, = Americans living in England, are forced to come to terms with Kennedy's = assassination. It's handled with such skill, a directness and lack of = sentiment that ultimately adds to the emotional kick of the passage, = that I was left with nothing but pure admiration.=20 ....if yr into writers like Gaddis, Gass, Pynchon, Coover, etc. = I'd completely recommend this. And if you want to venture in post-modern = fiction (what some call "meta-fiction") this might be a good place to = start. I remain.... Joseph NP: Marion Brown "Three for Shepp" CD NR: Harold Brodkey "First Love and Other Sorrows" =20 ------=_NextPart_000_006A_01C12A4A.BA924860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,
        ....for PatRice = and all=20 others interested, "Lookout Cartridge" is a novel of post-modernist = fiction by=20 Joseph McElroy, who is probably best known for his 1000+ pg. tome "Women = and=20 Men". "LC" is comparable to works by William Gaddis and Thomas = Pynchon,=20 though it is also distinctive from, say, "The Recognitions" by = Gaddis or=20 "Gravity's Rainbow" by Pynchon, in that "Cartridge" is more economical = at under=20 550 pgs. and also McElroy doesn't go on flights of absurdity that = Pynchon=20 did in "Rainbow" (no talking dogs or trips into the sewer via = the=20 commode). He's similar to Gaddis in that he dispenses with = quotation marks=20 to indicate spoken passages by characters, but where Gaddis follows=20 the style that Joyce used, McElroy often lets his bits of = dialogue=20 appear in the middle of paragraphs, though surprisingly this doesn't = make=20 "Cartridge" particularly difficult to read. It goes down smoother than = either of=20 the above mentioned novels, though I don't think I'd rate "Cartridge" as = large=20 an achievement as "The Recognitions" or "Rainbow". 
       = ....all this=20 being said, at its core, "Cartridge" is a suspense novel about the = making of an=20 avant-garde film. It's brilliant in the amount of pure information that = gets=20 spit out, so much of it regarding characters and events that=20 intertwine in an uncompromising fashion that can result, for me, in = moments=20 of information overload, where I'm left rereading bits of text in = an=20 attempt to assure that I'm digesting all the connections necessary to = understand=20 the narrative. This being said, McElroy does a good job = in solidifying=20 all the essential bits and combines this with moments of personal = remembrance by=20 his narrator that add a welcome emotional weight to the story. There is=20 a rather outstanding part where the narrator recalls how he and his = wife,=20 Americans living in England, are forced to come to terms with Kennedy's=20 assassination. It's handled with such skill, a directness and lack of = sentiment=20 that ultimately adds to the emotional kick of the passage, that I = was left=20 with nothing but pure admiration. 
        ....if=20 yr into writers like Gaddis, Gass, Pynchon, Coover, etc. I'd completely=20 recommend this. And if you want to venture in post-modern fiction (what = some=20 call "meta-fiction") this might be a good place to start.
 
I remain....
 
Joseph
 
NP: Marion Brown "Three for Shepp" = CD
NR: Harold Brodkey "First Love and = Other=20 Sorrows"    
------=_NextPart_000_006A_01C12A4A.BA924860-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: RE: fate of the knit Date: 21 Aug 2001 17:58:30 +0000 In the new issue of Jazz Times, there's a >long article on the radical Jewish culture thing by Howard Mandel. Mandel >caught Sharp in an unguarded moment at Tonic, and he says some pretty >pointed things about the Radical Jewish Culture series on Tzadik... WHAT??? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project Date: 21 Aug 2001 18:09:38 +0000 <buddies, >his town, his club, etc), and that there is no fresh blood anymore to mess >up the whole thing.>> Hm, in general I don't think that's right. There is many new and exiting stuff being released on Tzadik (apart from Zorn's own things...), but for Zorn's own musical output I agree 100%. The biggest surprise he has given me in several years was forming an impro band with a heavy metal drummer (for newbies: this is hardly a new trick from Zorn!) I'm surprised about all the Tzadik bashing which goes on these days. I think it's, hands down, the best label around. The list of totally unique things released on it awesome. What about the Ken Butler CD? 25 years in the making. Milford Graves solo? Tim Sparks playing jewish muisc. Ruins with Derek Bailey etc etc. Is nobody else amazed by the stuff which Zorn manages to get his hands on and release?? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project Date: 21 Aug 2001 18:12:11 +0000 >Now it's all Mego and >Erstwhile for me... Gag, Mego... They're are even more strict with what they release than Tzadik, and frankly, it's beginning to sound dated and boring. Don't know why people are so keen on this label. Come on, Panasonic was close to ten years ago, for christ sake! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project Date: 21 Aug 2001 18:16:14 +0000 >I think it was with Zappa, but I'll go out on a ledge and say that if he >quit >composing now, he wouldn't measure up against other 20th/21st century >composers. I disagree. even if Zorn continued only releasing crap liek "The Gift" from now on and the next 50 years, I would still concider myself a fan, cause he has already done enough good stuff to earn my eternal respect. "Torture Garden" is one of the, shall we say, five greatest records ever. And I do actually think of "Hermetic Theater" as a "radical change", which so many are looking for, it seems... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: Zorn's next major Project Date: 21 Aug 2001 11:19:15 -0700 >>>I thought a fundamental tenet of postmodernism was the acknowledgement that there are no new ideas.<<< Well then, postmodernist thought exemplifies its fundamental tenets. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert Subject: to hell with 'groundbreaking' Date: 21 Aug 2001 20:24:57 +0200 M is so right. The simplicity of, lets say, Dylan, but then in the world of avant garde. In fact, I believe that 'Bueysblock' from 'Songs from the Hermetic Theatre' by John Zorn fits in this category by just using stuff you find in the house and creating compositions and atmosphere. Think about it! M Pathos wrote: > To hell with "groundbreaking," why doesn't somebody ? anybody ? try to do > something simple and sincere? That may sound naive, but to do this well > requires tremendous concentration, energy, and thought greetings, Rob @ risk np: Robert Cray - some pain some shame - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Odp: Zorn's next major project Date: 21 Aug 2001 14:37:07 EDT In a message dated 8/21/01 6:32:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, marcingokieli@go2.pl writes about Zorn's _Voodoo_: Is it just my problem, or is that disc , as many others from the early '80s, very poorly recorded? The sound is flat. >> Yeah, pretty much so on that album, but nothing that a remastering job couldn't fix, I'd guess. Are you referring to just those releases on Soul Note/Black Saint? -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Re: Zorn's next major Project Date: 21 Aug 2001 14:52:50 -0400 "M Pathos" said: > People don't feel classic Coltrane, Brotzman, Miles or Louis because any of > them blew longest, loudest, or fastest but because they brought a unique > sensibility and sensitivity to their instruments that's communicated for > listeners to commune with. Maybe the majority of musicians in this > programmed age, Zorn included, have lost touch with the distinctive > qualities that attract(ed) audiences to their art in the first place. > Ground-breaking music can and does spring from an artists' sincere feelings about expressing themselves. I'd definitely agree that too many times, artists worry about their work getting staid and always try to 'progress.' On the other hand, it isn't any better for an artist to be doing the same exact thing every time out. Ideally, there's some kind of balance in between, which most artists have a lot of difficulty achieving. I'd be curious to hear what people here think about how conscious great artists are about how revolutionary their works are. From interviews I've done and read, it seems that hindsight helps a lot but many times, they were just determinedly going down the path of self-expression. Best, Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert A. Pleshar" Subject: Re: Zorn's next major Project Date: 21 Aug 2001 14:19:06 -0500 Just wondering, how much groundbreaking music "should" we expect from someone? Is one revolutionary idea per career enough? None? I for one am satisfied with any number from zero to infinity as long as I find the music enjoyable on some level. Also, I sometimes think that Zorn's game/chance/conducted/structured improvisational music was the last groundbreaking musical idea at all. And one could argue that that was just a cobbling together of previous ideas (not that I would make that argument myself). What has been groundbreaking since then? I guess we could consider the laptop improvisation folks, but that really seems to me to be improvisation (an established idea) with new instruments. So, what were the total of the really groundbreaking musical ideas of, say, the past century? Off the top of my head (certainly forgetting crucial ones!): serialism? "jazz" - collective improvisation? (improvisation is certainly as old as music itself) electrical instruments? the studio and it's use as an instrument as well as a recording arena? bebop? free jazz? free improvisation? structured improvisation? musique concrete / collage? minimalism? rock and roll? punk? I think I'm not really sure what groundbreaking is anymore, even. Or if it matters at all. I know it doesn't matter at all to most people to whom music is a background or afterthought. Does making groundbreaking music matter to the people who are creating it? Sometmes I'm sure it does, but sometimes I bet it's just the way something worked out or maybe a happy accident. Rob At 10:39 AM 8/21/01 -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > >On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:32:23 -0600 "M Pathos" wrote: >> >> "I think i can agree that as far as groundbreaking ideas are concerned. . ." >> >> >> I thought a fundamental tenet of postmodernism was the acknowledgement that > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >That makes sense only if you attribute any credibility of postmodernism... > >> there are no new ideas. To hell with "groundbreaking," why doesn't somebody >> ? anybody ? try to do something simple and sincere? That may sound naive, >> but to do this well requires tremendous concentration, energy, and thought >> the like of which isn't required just to splurt out some "new" loopy >> pseudo-avant-garde mess. > >Why not, but Zorn came to recognition for significant groundbreaking music. >You can't avoid that people who have been following him since almost the >beginning whine for not finding anymore what attracted them in the first >place. > > Patrice. > >- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: important? groundbreaking? huh? Date: 22 Aug 2001 12:25:47 -0700 I always love these threads because I notice words like "important", "innovative" etc being corralled in, as if to say something to the effect of "Unless the music can be characterized as somehow apocolyptic, it's lesser music." A few paltry thoughts: Mingus is, for instance, one of my favorite composers. He's important to me. How much importance he has in the world outside my apartment is negligable. The frisbee means more to Americans than "Goodbye Porkpie Hat". I don't know that "groundbreaking" is all it's cracked up to be, nor am I sure everyone needs the same ground broken for them. I'm sure Zorn's Sonny Clark project seemed groundbreaking to a bunch of people who didn't know about Sonny Clark. But to someone like Tommy Flanagan, Sonny Clark was old news. And I've never seen a big proliferation of props on this list for TF as a progressive force. As for the debate about how much Masada we need, I think it's because everyone is always looking to Zorn's "next concept" that the band is largely unappreciated. They're a fine band whose records are generally more entertaining than so much of what we get to hear. I think because Zorn's name "means something", he's not allowed to break out of his job description and mine a certain territory over a period of years. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com np: Hank Mobley, SOUL STATION. Not groundbreaking, but a great record - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Theo Klaase Subject: Naked City Date: 21 Aug 2001 12:29:42 -0700 (PDT) --0-1515686803-998422182=:67430 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii How come we get 5 live Masada CD's and no Naked City Live albums? They performed a number of songs live that never ended up on any album... Imagine the excitement this would drum up... -Theo Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $0.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger. --0-1515686803-998422182=:67430 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

      How come we get 5 live Masada CD's and no Naked City Live albums?  They performed a number of songs live that never ended up on any album...  Imagine the excitement this would drum up...

-Theo


Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $0.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger. --0-1515686803-998422182=:67430-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert Subject: ComposersSeries Date: 21 Aug 2001 21:58:36 +0200 Are there people on the list who, by definition, buy every Tzadik Composers Series release ? This seems to be a great idea for a rich person ?! greetings, Rob @ risk np: Shine On You Crazy Diamond - Pt 1 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: important? groundbreaking? huh? Date: 21 Aug 2001 16:14:23 -0400 Don't know that I'd ever call Tommy Flanagan a progressive force, or particularly groundbreaking for that matter. But I do know that on a good night, he's the greatest living mainstream jazz pianist on the planet - and he has lots of good nights. During one two-week run at the Vanguard, I went to see him on six nights, and would gladly have gone the other six if I could've. His trio with Peter Washington and Lewis Nash was a perfectly tooled machine (to borrow a seriously overused cliche), the likes of which I've literally never heard live. It can be heard on the recent Blue Note set 'Sunset and the Mockingbird,' recorded during the very two-week stint I mentioned. The title tune, by Ellington, says more with just a few notes than many artists will say in the course of a career. Groundbreaking? Nah - though to his credit, he *was* the pianist on 'Giant Steps,' and at age 70-something, he hasn't lost much of his technique. I love it when he plays a typically verbose and labyrinthine Thad Jones tune, then remarks offhand how playing Thad makes him wish he got paid by the note. By now, you can count on that quip to come up probably once per set for the rest of his days. So maybe not groundbreaking. But life-affirming, yeah, you bet. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: important? groundbreaking? huh? Date: 21 Aug 2001 16:22:52 EDT just to echo Steve's opinions here, I haven't seen Flanagan perform in a few years, but when I was recently asked to name the greatest living jazz musician, he was my nominee. I'd never call him a "progressive force", though. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: important? groundbreaking? huh? Date: 21 Aug 2001 16:31:35 -0400 My vote goes to Clark Terry, with Tommy a very close second. Barry Harris still kills me, too. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of JonAbbey2@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 4:23 PM just to echo Steve's opinions here, I haven't seen Flanagan perform in a few years, but when I was recently asked to name the greatest living jazz musician, he was my nominee. I'd never call him a "progressive force", though. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: important? groundbreaking? huh? Date: 22 Aug 2001 13:46:20 -0700 > My vote goes to Clark Terry, with Tommy a very close second. Barry Harris > still kills me, too. > > Steve Smith > ssmith36@sprynet.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of > JonAbbey2@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 4:23 PM > To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: important? groundbreaking? huh? > > > just to echo Steve's opinions here, I haven't seen Flanagan perform in a few > years, but when I was recently asked to name the greatest living jazz > musician, he was my nominee. I'd never call him a "progressive force", > though. > > Jon > www.erstwhilerecords.com > > > - > > > - > Hank Jones skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: important? groundbreaking? huh? Date: 21 Aug 2001 17:07:54 -0400 Another outstanding suggestion. Still bummed that I missed him in June with Joe Lovano at Birdland. The reviews were great. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Skip Heller Hank Jones - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew Mitchell" Subject: mainstream jazz piano; Zorn in the 90's, etc. Date: 21 Aug 2001 17:57:14 -0400 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To be honest, I'd always been baffled whenever people sang the praises of Tommy Flanagan. He always sounded like he never really had anything interesting to say, musically, and I even think his pianistic ability could be called into question from time to time. He, Barry Harris, other similar guys, they just seem to be rehashing Bud Powell, sprinkling in some token Monk 'quirkiness,' and then stopping there before ever getting to any sort of original idea. Frankly, I'd be hard-pressed to say that any piano players have a better combination of technique, ideas, and innate musical sense than Herbie Hancock or Keith Jarrett. Despite the forays by either of them outside mainstream jazz, no one even comes close to them, as far as I'm concerned, when they choose to play it. As far as Zorn goes, I'd say that Hermetic Theatre was actually an encouraging sign that he might do something at least slightly more interesting sometime soon. Honestly, the only reason I'm even on the Zorn list at this point is because I learn about so much interesting music from y'all, 99% of that only tangentially having to do with Zorn. Yes, he's done wonderful things: Spillane, Locus Solus, Grand Guignol, Heretic, Absinthe, Duras/Duchamp, Elegy, Book of Heads. The notion that he'd stand up to major composers of the 90's is fairly dubious, though. As far as America goes, I can't even think offhand of an American composer who's music I really like, with the exception of Elliott Carter, whom I love. BTW, I'm deeply immersed in Keiji Haino-land at the mo, both solo records and Fushitsusha. He is simply jaw-droppingly amazing, AFAIC. Watashi-Dake? and the hurdy-gurdy stuff simply blows me away... -matt mitchell NR: The Royal Family by William T. Vollmann --- Matthew Mitchell --- matmi@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
To be honest, I'd always been baffled whenever people sang the praises of Tommy Flanagan.  He always sounded like he never really had anything interesting to say, musically, and I even think his pianistic ability could be called into question from time to time.  He, Barry Harris, other similar guys, they just seem to be rehashing Bud Powell, sprinkling in some token Monk 'quirkiness,' and then stopping there before ever getting to any sort of original idea.
 
Frankly, I'd be hard-pressed to say that any piano players have a better combination of technique, ideas, and innate musical sense than Herbie Hancock or Keith Jarrett.  Despite the forays by either of them outside mainstream jazz, no one even comes close to them, as far as I'm concerned, when they choose to play it.
 
As far as Zorn goes, I'd say that Hermetic Theatre was actually an encouraging sign that he might do something at least slightly more interesting sometime soon.  Honestly, the only reason I'm even on the Zorn list at this point is because I learn about so much interesting music from y'all, 99% of that only tangentially having to do with Zorn.  Yes, he's done wonderful things: Spillane, Locus Solus, Grand Guignol, Heretic, Absinthe, Duras/Duchamp, Elegy, Book of Heads. 
 
The notion that he'd stand up to major composers of the 90's is fairly dubious, though.  As far as America goes, I can't even think offhand of an American composer who's music I really like, with the exception of Elliott Carter, whom I love.
 
BTW, I'm deeply immersed in Keiji Haino-land at the mo, both solo records and Fushitsusha.  He is simply jaw-droppingly amazing, AFAIC.  Watashi-Dake? and the hurdy-gurdy stuff simply blows me away...
 
-matt mitchell
 
NR: The Royal Family by William T. Vollmann
 
 

 
--- Matthew Mitchell
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: mainstream jazz piano; Zorn in the 90's, etc. Date: 22 Aug 2001 15:41:38 -0700 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3081339698_517700_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit To be honest, I'd always been baffled whenever people sang the praises of Tommy Flanagan. He always sounded like he never really had anything interesting to say, musically, and I even think his pianistic ability could be called into question from time to time. He, Barry Harris, other similar guys, they just seem to be rehashing Bud Powell, sprinkling in some token Monk 'quirkiness,' and then stopping there before ever getting to any sort of original idea. Frankly, I'd be hard-pressed to say that any piano players have a better combination of technique, ideas, and innate musical sense than Herbie Hancock or Keith Jarrett. Despite the forays by either of them outside mainstream jazz, no one even comes close to them, as far as I'm concerned, when they choose to play it. Dear Matt -- As for the first count -- I get the sense that you object to the style in the question, so maybe your opinion comes from the notion that the style in question is something for which you have no great love. I've personally never heard you play, so I am by no means saying you're ignorant or anything. I just get the sense that you dislike mainstream jazz piano or 98% of what is called that. You're antagonistic remarks re Uri indicated that much to me. For the record, I've rarely if ever heard a pianist I thought had more on the ball with every aspect of both the instrument and playing jazz on it than Hank Jones, who is far from a Bud Powell Machine. As to the second paragraph -- not Bill Evans or Denny Zeitlin? Now you're telling me something about yourself. skip h np: Willis Jackson, BAR WARS --MS_Mac_OE_3081339698_517700_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: mainstream jazz piano; Zorn in the 90's, etc.

To be honest, I'd always been baffled whenever people sang the = praises of Tommy Flanagan.  He always sounded like he never really had = anything interesting to say, musically, and I even think his pianistic abili= ty could be called into question from time to time.  He, Barry Harris, = other similar guys, they just seem to be rehashing Bud Powell, sprinkling in= some token Monk 'quirkiness,' and then stopping there before ever getting t= o any sort of original idea.

Frankly, I'd be hard-pressed to say that any piano players have a better co= mbination of technique, ideas, and innate musical sense than Herbie Hancock = or Keith Jarrett.  Despite the forays by either of them outside mainstr= eam jazz, no one even comes close to them, as far as I'm concerned, when the= y choose to play it.

Dear Matt --

As for the first count -- I get the sense that you object to the style in t= he question, so maybe your opinion comes from the notion that the style in q= uestion is something for which you have no great love.  I've personally= never heard you play, so I am by no means saying you're ignorant or anythin= g.  I just get the sense that you dislike mainstream jazz piano or 98% = of what is called that.  You're antagonistic remarks re Uri indicated t= hat much to me.  For the record, I've rarely if ever heard a pianist I = thought had more on the ball with every aspect of both the instrument and pl= aying jazz on it than Hank Jones, who is far from a Bud Powell Machine.

As to the second paragraph -- not Bill Evans or Denny Zeitlin? Now you're t= elling me something about yourself.

skip h
np: Willis Jackson, BAR WARS
--MS_Mac_OE_3081339698_517700_MIME_Part-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Re: important? groundbreaking? huh? Date: 21 Aug 2001 18:54:50 -0400 Steve Smith wrote: > Groundbreaking? Nah - though to his credit, he *was* the pianist on 'Giant > Steps,' and at age 70-something, he hasn't lost much of his technique. I > love it when he plays a typically verbose and labyrinthine Thad Jones tune, > then remarks offhand how playing Thad makes him wish he got paid by the > note. By now, you can count on that quip to come up probably once per set > for the rest of his days. That reminds me of another fine pianist from that era, Gene DiNovi, who tells the story of having to play night after night as house pianist in a 52nd Street bar where Art Tatum liked to drink. "And that's when I decided to become the world's best *slow* pianist," he always says. James Hale - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: APoesia794@aol.com Subject: a copy of last month's wire... Date: 21 Aug 2001 19:02:07 EDT does anyone have an extra copy of last month's wire with radiohead on the cover and the interview with john hudak? i somehow missed that one....thanks. jason - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Miller, James Andrew (UMC-Student)" Subject: Re: Next Zorn Project? Date: 21 Aug 2001 18:35:12 -0500 So I'm reading all these interesting posts about Zorn's next project, etc etc. And I get the feeling that a lot of us are bored, or GETTING bored with Zorn's work? I know I've thought in these terms a few times over the last year or so-- I guess it began when I realized I was buying new Zorn CDs automatically, playing them once, then filing them away in the Z section. I haven't actively listened to his work in many months. I wonder if anyone on this list has ever successfully 'converted' anyone to Zorn's music, and/or to free improv, etc? I've been trying for YEARS... maybe I'm just not very effective, maybe I'm living in a particularly unreceptive place (midwest college town). But I have to wonder. Without fail, my Zorn mixtapes are evaluated as dilettantish, cartoony, emotionally cold, whatever. No one has ever asked for more. I trade CDs regularly with several people here at school, and invariably I always include something 'outside' in my selection (for example, say a Parker/Guy/Lytton disc in there with the folk/country and indie punk). I convinced several people to see Joe McPhee when he came though here a few months ago-- they literally left after less than 15 mins. When I spend several years hanging out with very intelligent people who have devoted much of their lives to the pursuit of the aesthetic, and absolutely none of them can hear anything musical in Derek Bailey... I guess I just want to say how much I appreciate this forum. My latest discovery, thanks to you all: AMM. I lent 'Newfoundland' to a friend, who couldn't get past the first 15 minutes. Sigh. Anyone know whether AMM/Matchless are planning to release CDs from the recent tour? Andy (in Missouri) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mwisckol@ocregister.com Subject: frisbee and porkpie hat Date: 21 Aug 2001 16:39:19 -0700 skip wrote: >The frisbee means more to Americans than "Goodbye Porkpie Hat."< While the implicit imagery of teens playing frisbee with a Mingus LP is effective, I would beg to defend the frisbee. If I, for instance, had a choice between the two -- the beautiful times of listening to countless versions of Theme for Lester Young, past and present, and those playing frisbee, including with my grandfather (he was a lawrence welk fan although i don't know if he ever dug Johnny Hodges w/ LW's Orchestra (Ranwood, 1965)) in his last years and tripping on mushrooms while playing in these knolls where you couldn't see anybody else, just the frisbee floating up, and the girlfriend I threw with at the beach every summer evening after work -- I'd have to go with the frisbee. Or I would if I hadn't discovered the aerobie, which sails about three times as far. And speaking of birdcalls, why has Zorn neglected this groundbreaking instrument? Martin np. the hugo masters: an antholody of chinese classical music vol. 3, wind instruments nr. midaq alley by naguib mahfouz - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Next Zorn Project? Date: 21 Aug 2001 19:43:27 EDT In a message dated 8/21/01 7:35:45 PM, jam189@mizzou.edu writes: << Anyone know whether AMM/Matchless are planning to release CDs from the recent tour? >> the next AMM CD will be from their May concert at the Musique Action festival in Vand'ouevre, which was by all reports a spectacular set. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: Next Zorn Project? Date: 21 Aug 2001 20:25:58 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- > Anyone know whether AMM/Matchless are planning to release CDs from the > recent tour? > Speaking of, how's the newest CD that just came out? What's it like? -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: frisbee and porkpie hat Date: 21 Aug 2001 17:32:35 -0700 >>>And speaking of birdcalls, why has Zorn neglected this groundbreaking instrument?<<< The pulse of the Zorn-list quickens upon reading this statement. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: AMM, was: Next Zorn Project? Date: 21 Aug 2001 20:43:54 -0400 Jesse Kudler wrote: > Speaking of, how's the newest CD that just came out? What's it like? Compared to AMM's prior work, I'd have to say "Tunes without Measure or End" is on the so-so side. That is, it's fine but a little bit of "more of the same" and less inspired than "Newfoundland" and other albums from the 90's. Like anyone else, AMM have their average nights, but one wonders why they chose to release this particular set. At a couple of points, Rowe sounds like he's intentionally throwing up roadblocks (in the form of "unmusical" thuds and bangs) to the overly smooth general drift. Overall, I far prefer the two other Rowe projects from this year('Grain' with Burkhard Beins and [N:Q] with Jean Chevalier, Christophe Havard and Julien Ottavi), both of which are very beautiful. And, of course, I'm drooling somewhat over Jon's upcoming duo release with Nakamura. Brian Olewnick NP: Hank Jones/Ray Brown/Jimmie Smith - Jones, Brown & Smith NR: Naguib Mafouz - Palace Walk - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: Mahfouz and summer reading Date: 21 Aug 2001 23:20:14 -0400 >Brian Olewnick > >NR: Naguib Mafouz - Palace Walk Now there's a coincidence. I knew that Martin Wisckol was reading Mahfouz's 'Midaq Alley,' because we've shared private messages on the subject recently. Now here's Brian reading Mahfouz as well. And I just read his 'Akhenaten - Dweller in Truth' about two weeks ago. In my case and Martin's, it's largely in response to Dave Douglas's musical prod on 'Witness.' Brian, I know you were less than impressed with that music, so I assume it's a coincidence, right? Anyway, getting around to my point, those of you who have read Mahfouz, which novels do you most recommend? I grabbed 'Akhenaten' because it appeared to be the newest and because I thought that I might get a good sense of Mahfouz's style by reading his treatment of an already familiar subject (Egypt's monotheistic heretic pharoah, husband of Nerfertiti, older brother of King Tut). The novel was constructed a la 'Rashomon,' with each chapter a retelling of roughly the same events from the point of view of a different character. It was a fine light read that took all of one day. Where should I go next? Given that we all seem to be terribly bored with Zorn lately ;-) maybe it's a good time for the annual Zornlist Reading List thread. I know I always enjoy those hugely and come away enriched (I found Philip K. Dick, Haruki Murakami and Italo Calvino that way). I'll start. Here's my summer reading list, some of which will look familiar to anyone who's heard 'Witness': Haruki Murakami: Sputnik Sweetheart - I haven't read so many of his novels yet, but I'm enjoying each one tremendously (thanks, Jon). This one is the most surreal and mysterious of those I've read. Eduardo Galeano: Genesis, Faces & Masks, Century of the Wind - A remarkable trilogy depicting the history of the Americas from pre-history to 1984, crafted from first-hand accounts by a Uruguayan dissident journalist. None of the sections is more than a few paragraphs long, but taken together they accumulate serious density. Ken Saro-Wiwa: Sozaboy - Easily the most electrifying thing I've read this summer: like Candide plunked down in the middle of Catch 22 or Slaughterhouse Five, as narrated by someone who speaks in the language and cadences of Fela. Hard to find, easy to appreciate. Naguib Mahfouz: Akhenaten, Dweller in Truth - Quick, easy, poetic, memorable. Pramoedya Ananta Toer: This Earth of Mankind: The first book in Toer's Buru Quartet, detailing a Javanese boy's coming of age in Dutch colonial Java, as written from memory by a former longtime political prisoner first of the Dutch and then the Suharto regime. Arundhati Roy: The God of Small Things - Personal tragedies exacerbated by caste discrimination in India, rendered poignant and universal by Ms. Roy's perfumed writing. Alice McDermott: Charming Billy - melodramatic and touching, if not quite the brilliant achievement I'd expected from all the acclaim and awards. Yes, that's a LOT of reading. But I had one weekend trip that included a nine-hour bus ride each way in there somewhere, and besides, it's been really inspiring. And honestly, I haven't really listened to much new music lately outside of the classical stuff I spin for work and the metal I use to decompress afterward (new Meshuggah rarities disc was supposed to come out today, but I haven't found it yet). Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Six Feet Under, "One Bullet Left," 'Pure Carnage' (Metal Blade) NR - Pramoedya Ananta Toer, 'Child of All Nations' - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: mainstream jazz piano; Zorn in the 90's, etc. Date: 22 Aug 2001 03:49:05 +0000 >From: "Matthew Mitchell" > >Frankly, I'd be hard-pressed to say that any piano players have a better >combination of technique, ideas, and innate musical sense than Herbie >Hancock or >Keith Jarrett. I have a very fond memory of seeing Jarrett play in the '70s, when his prima donna arrogance began getting out of hand, and he would often stop playing to berate audience members for coughing or shifting in their seats. Anyway, this particular performance was going along fine, even though many in the audience were having a difficult time holding their breath for such sustained lengths, when during a fraction of silence in Jarrett's performance, someone in the back of the theatre bellowed out: "Stop playing that neo-romantic bullshit and give us some real music!" As far as America goes, I can't even think offhand of an >American composer who's music I really like... Well, just off the top, there's John Cage, Charles Mingus, Conlon Nancarrow, Charles Ives, Harry Partch, Duke Ellington, Thelonious Monk, John Zorn, Samuel Barber, John Coltrane, George Crumb, Herbie Nichols, Morton Feldman, Steve Reich, Jimi Hendrix, Charles Ruggles, Frank Zappa, Gordon Gano, Miles Davis, Bob Dylan, Terry Riley, Lou Reed, Lamonte Young, Charles Parker, Ingram Marshall, Gordon Monahan, Robert Johnson, Lennie Tristano, Willie Dixon, James Brown, Les Baxter, etc. etc. etc. why I believe I could on for days... np: Stravinsky Rite Of Spring Kirov Orchestra Valery Gergiev _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: mainstream jazz piano; Zorn in the 90's, etc. Date: 22 Aug 2001 00:59:58 -0400 I guess he's gotten a little better. When I saw him in June, he told a fairly funny story about an imaginary meeting between Ken Burns and Miles Davis, complete with gravel-whispered Miles impression, and later on sternly admonished the audience against flash photography. Kind of tame, by comparison. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Dimmu Borgir, "Puritania," 'Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropia' (Nuclear Blast) -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of thomas chatterton I have a very fond memory of seeing Jarrett play in the '70s, when his prima donna arrogance began getting out of hand, and he would often stop playing to berate audience members for coughing or shifting in their seats. Anyway, this particular performance was going along fine, even though many in the audience were having a difficult time holding their breath for such sustained lengths, when during a fraction of silence in Jarrett's performance, someone in the back of the theatre bellowed out: "Stop playing that neo-romantic bullshit and give us some real music!" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Mahfouz and summer reading Date: 22 Aug 2001 01:43:17 EDT In a message dated 8/21/01 11:25:14 PM, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: << maybe it's a good time for the annual Zornlist Reading List thread. >> I recently finished Michael Chabon's The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay, which I thought was superb for about 400 pages, followed by 200 pages which didn't add too much. I also enjoyed Alan Moore's graphic novel, From Hell, a pretty compelling, thoroughly researched original take on Jack the Ripper. <> I thought this was pretty good. I divide Murakami's books into novels and "entertainments", a la Graham Greene, and I thought SS was the best of his entertainments thus far. for Murakami completists, there's a very good short piece in the new issue of Granta, Issue 74. his New Yorker stories are always excerpts from upcoming novels, but this felt like an actual story, and Amazon UK doesn't list anything new coming up for him. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Great American Composers cont. Date: 22 Aug 2001 05:55:09 +0000 ...Raymond Scott, Moondog, George Gershwin, David Axelrod, Tim Buckley, Sun Ra, Neil Diamond, Brian Wilson, Billy Strayhorn, Earle Brown, George Clinton, Alvin Lucier, Woody Guthrie, Aaron Copland, Leonard Bernstein, Hank Williams, Johnny Mercer, Kurt Cobain, Pauline Oliveros, Buddy Holly, Dozier & Holland... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Mahfouz and summer reading Date: 22 Aug 2001 02:09:01 -0400 Does that include the piece in the new issue of the New Yorker, their annual "music issue"? Well, whether it does or it doesn't, the issue's still worth grabbing. Nick Hornby, who famously bashed Radiohead in the New Yorker, writes about Top Ten music in this issue - while former New York Times classical music critic and seriously talented writer Alex Ross writes about - Radiohead. David Gates, Newsweek critic and writer of disquieting novels and short stories, writes about Ralph Stanley. Whitney Balliett writes about Ben Webster. And there's more, much more. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - nothing... going to bed. -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of JonAbbey2@aol.com for Murakami completists, there's a very good short piece in the new issue of Granta, Issue 74. his New Yorker stories are always excerpts from upcoming novels, but this felt like an actual story, and Amazon UK doesn't list anything new coming up for him. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Mahfouz and summer reading Date: 22 Aug 2001 02:41:15 EDT In a message dated 8/22/01 2:14:18 AM, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: << Does that include the piece in the new issue of the New Yorker, their annual "music issue"? >> not sure, to be honest. I've found that to be true in the past, so I just skip them now. I was actually kind of disappointed by the New Yorker issue, nothing too memorable, at least to my jaded, media-saturated tastes. the new Blood and Fire compilation, Darker Than Blue, which collects Jamaican versions of American soul songs, not to mention a pretty great take on Rapper's Delight, is really good, the best I've heard on that label for a while. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: AMM, was: Next Zorn Project? Date: 22 Aug 2001 02:47:25 EDT In a message dated 8/21/01 8:53:17 PM, olewnick@gis.net writes: << I'd have to say "Tunes without Measure or End" is on the so-so side. >> agreed, at least for AMM. there's no magic there, plus the cover art is really subpar. <> also agreed, especially Grain. <> not to mention the MIMEO/Tilbury, set for release in February or March. neither will disappoint. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "josephneff" Subject: RE: Summer reading list Date: 22 Aug 2001 04:20:55 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C12AC1.D6806D00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, ....Mr. Smith asked for a list of summer reads, so here goes.... Robert Palmer "Deep Blues" finally got around to checking this = out, after being impressed w/ his reviews and liners for years. The = writing is positively expert and just drips w/ passion. Palmer's = definition of blues is certainly more abstract than most, but it = ultimately makes far more sense. Easily one of the best music books I've = ever read. Robert Gordon "It Came From Memphis" this is what led me to the = Palmer book. The early chapters, which focus on the musical and cultural = collusion that occurred in Memphis from roughly 1945-60 are just = amazing. The later chapter about the early Memphis Blues Fests, Palmer's = Insect Trust, Big Star, and Panther Burns are just as cool.=20 Dave Eggers- "A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius" just = noticed during a recent bookstore visit that this has a sticker saying = it's been nominated for a Pulitzer, which is going to maker the = anti-Eggers crowd all the more unhappy. It's a funny book, IMHO. I lost = track of the times I laughed out loud, and the last books to do that for = me were by J.K. Toole and Stan Elkin.=20 tons of selections from "Postmodern American Poetry" including = John Cage, Jackson Mac Low, Jack Spicer, Larry Eigner, Jerome = Rothenberg, David Antin, Jayne Cortez, Clark Coolidge, and Leslie = Scalapino. I'd heard of many of these poets, but this anthology provided = the first taste. At $5 used, this was easily the best buy of the last 12 = months. Short Stuff Robert Coover and George Plimption in the new Harper's Greil Marcus on Schrader's "Forever Mine" in Film Comment, = Marcus on the recent Richard Farina book in Mojo and I just re-read Robert Coover's short story "The Babysitter", = which crept right into my five or so favorite short stories....it's a = mind blower.=20 well, that's that. I remain.... Joseph NP: Love "Forever Changes" CD reish NR: Harold Brodkey "First Love and Other Sorrows" =20 ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C12AC1.D6806D00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,
        ....Mr.=20 Smith asked for a list of summer reads, so here goes....
 
        Robert=20 Palmer "Deep Blues" finally got around to checking this out, after being = impressed w/ his reviews and liners for years. The writing is positively = expert=20 and just drips w/ passion. Palmer's definition of blues is certainly = more=20 abstract than most, but it ultimately makes far more sense. Easily one = of the=20 best music books I've ever read.
 
        = Robert Gordon=20 "It Came From Memphis" this is what led me to the Palmer book. The = early=20 chapters, which focus on the musical and cultural collusion that = occurred in=20 Memphis from roughly 1945-60 are just amazing. The later chapter about = the early=20 Memphis Blues Fests, Palmer's Insect Trust, Big Star, and Panther Burns = are just=20 as cool.
 
        = Dave Eggers-=20 "A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius" just noticed during a recent = bookstore visit that this has a sticker saying it's been nominated = for a=20 Pulitzer, which is going to maker the anti-Eggers crowd all the = more=20 unhappy. It's a funny book, IMHO. I lost track of the times I = laughed out=20 loud, and the last books to do that for me were by J.K. Toole and Stan = Elkin.=20
 
        = tons of=20 selections from "Postmodern American Poetry" including John Cage, = Jackson=20 Mac Low, Jack Spicer, Larry Eigner, Jerome Rothenberg, David Antin, = Jayne=20 Cortez, Clark Coolidge, and Leslie Scalapino. I'd heard of many of these = poets,=20 but this anthology provided the first taste. At $5 used, this was = easily=20 the best buy of the last 12 months.
 
        = Short=20 Stuff
 
        = Robert Coover=20 and George Plimption in the new Harper's
        = Greil Marcus=20 on Schrader's "Forever Mine" in Film Comment, Marcus on the recent = Richard=20 Farina book in Mojo
        = and I=20 just re-read Robert Coover's short story "The Babysitter", = which crept=20 right into my five or so favorite short stories....it's a mind blower.=20
 
well, that's that.
 
I remain....
 
Joseph
 
NP: Love "Forever Changes" CD = reish
NR: Harold Brodkey "First Love and = Other=20 Sorrows"   
------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C12AC1.D6806D00-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se (Stephen Fruitman) Subject: Re: Fwd: Zorn & ?Zionism? Date: 22 Aug 2001 10:34:56 +0200 (MET DST) >According to what Zorn answered to that question to a >Spanish magazine, he is not interested in politics at >all. Musically, he just intended to "find new paths in >Jewish music" with his Masada project, but as you well >point out, the fact that he has gathered a large >number of Jewish musicians around him and devoted a >complete series through Tzadik to them makes the whole >thing a bit suspicious. Why "suspicious"? The guy=B4s Jewish, and in an era when people of all creed= s and ethnic origins (especially Americans) are rediscovering and, more interestingly, _reimagining_ their cultures, Zorn is doing the same thing with his. And he also clearly stated on the Masada series of CDs that his inspiration was in part taken from the early-20th century Jewish thinker Ahad Ha-am, whose "cultural Zionism" was at odds with the political variant from day one. Why the conspiracy tone? Are labels producing (say) Gypsy or Balkan music "suspicious"? >IMHO he has taken the "protectionist" role with the >Jewish musicians, an attitude that I really think can >become narrow-minded and maybe even exclusivist as the >past has shown repeatedly. Which/whose "past"? Parochialism is always a danger looming round the corner, but do you really think that musicians like Marc Ribot or Anthony Coleman or the other (Jewish and non-Jewish - so much for "exclusivist") players on the Radical Jewish Music series need his "protection" to make it? And the re-releasing of gems like Davka=B4s _Lavy=B4s Dream_ and the upcoming Wolf Krakowski album just make good aesthetic and archival sense. Stephen Fruitman Dept of Historical Studies Ume=E5 University SE-901 87 Ume=E5 Sweden - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Re: important? groundbreaking? huh? Date: 22 Aug 2001 10:41:36 +0200 Skip Heller wrote: > As for the debate about how much Masada we need, I think it's because > everyone is always looking to Zorn's "next concept" that the band is largely > unappreciated. They're a fine band whose records are generally more > entertaining than so much of what we get to hear. I think because Zorn's > name "means something", he's not allowed to break out of his job description > and mine a certain territory over a period of years. Do you seriously think Masada are unappreciated? My impression is that some people are just getting sort of tired of the amount of Masada releases. And maybe, like myself, at the same time also a little pissed off that we never got any Naked City live stuff... patRice np: Renaud, Best Of nr: Don Ed Hardy, The Main Stream Of Underground - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Re: Next Zorn Project? Date: 22 Aug 2001 10:46:55 +0200 "Miller, James Andrew (UMC-Student)" wrote: > I wonder if anyone on this list has ever successfully 'converted' anyone to > Zorn's music, and/or to free improv, > etc? I've been trying for YEARS... maybe I'm just not very effective, maybe Hi. You did put "converted" under inverted commas, but still: I think that the basic attitude of trying to "convert" someone to a particular style of music (or philosophy or religion or whatever) will hardly ever work. I mean: why would anyone want to "convert" someone to one's own musical taste? What if every single person in the world was only into Zorn and free improv, and that would be all you'd hear everywhere, day in, day out - clubs, restaurants, bars, etc.??? And how would you react if someone tried to convert you to Britney Spears or The Backstreet Boys? patRice - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: important? groundbreaking? huh? Date: 22 Aug 2001 11:19:44 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- > Don't know that I'd ever call Tommy Flanagan a progressive force, or > particularly groundbreaking for that matter. But I do know that on a good > night, he's the greatest living mainstream jazz pianist on the planet - and > he has lots of good nights. I saw him with a trio many years ago, and that concert was one of the bests i've been to; the man himself also felt that way. It was at a large hall during jazz jamboree fest in Warsaw, the house was full, and he got a serious stnading ovation . - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Zorn's next major Project Date: 22 Aug 2001 10:58:45 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- > Why not, but Zorn came to recognition for significant groundbreaking music. > You can't avoid that people who have been following him since almost the > beginning whine for not finding anymore what attracted them in the first > place. In fact this '90s zorn music makes me think of (what else could you expecty from me?;-))stravinsky's neoclassical period. He also refused to follow his radical music of early period , and also was accused of doing nothin special. Zorn does something similiar: he works on some 'classical' sounds of music - jazz quartet, surf stuff, avant garde compositions - and brings his own approach to them. Maybe we should wait: only the last neoclassical pieces (rake's progress, orpheus) made me intersted in that neoclassicism, but after i realised what the klanguarge of that music is, i came to like all of them. Maybe we should wait a little bit, and try to listen carefully what JZ . It seems a little buit strange to me that 'avant -garde', who are supposed to be open minded etc., have very precise expectations as to what music should be like. That being said on zorn's defense, I agree that i like his '80s stuff more then what he does now - Godard was a masterpiece. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Odp: Zorn's next major project Date: 22 Aug 2001 11:02:36 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- > Is it just my problem, or is that disc , as many others from the early > '80s, very poorly recorded? The sound is flat. >> > > Yeah, pretty much so on that album, but nothing that a remastering job > couldn't fix, I'd guess. Are you referring to just those releases on Soul > Note/Black Saint? Yes. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the original analogue sounded OK. Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: important? groundbreaking? huh? Date: 22 Aug 2001 11:11:06 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- > I always love these threads because I notice words like "important", > "innovative" etc being corralled in, as if to say something to the effect of > "Unless the music can be characterized as somehow apocolyptic, it's lesser > music." Extremly well said. > As for the debate about how much Masada we need, I think it's because > everyone is always looking to Zorn's "next concept" that the band is largely > unappreciated. They're a fine band whose records are generally more > entertaining than so much of what we get to hear. I agree. Although i do not think i'd be buying much more masada discs (i've got three studio on two live albums), i'd be ready to travel far to hear them live. > I think because Zorn's > name "means something", he's not allowed to break out of his job description > and mine a certain territory over a period of years. I wrote in a previous post about some very strict expectations from 'avant-garde' community. This seems to be a special case of that problem. Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Millie Gorgon" Subject: Re: Fwd: Zorn & ?Zionism? Date: 22 Aug 2001 10:50:43 -0000 >Why "suspicious"? The guy´s Jewish, and in an era when people of all creeds >and ethnic origins (especially Americans) are rediscovering and, more >interestingly, _reimagining_ their cultures, Zorn is doing the same thing >with his. And he also clearly stated on the Masada series of CDs that his >inspiration was in part taken from the early-20th century Jewish thinker >Ahad Ha-am, whose "cultural Zionism" was at odds with the political variant >from day one. Why the conspiracy tone? Are labels producing (say) Gypsy or >Balkan music "suspicious"? Gypsy music is not a 'reimagining' of culture. 'Traditional' forms are most often best mastered by traditional players. Zorn's own Radical Jewish CUlture music is often about the Jewish experience, but usually has almost nothing (overtly) to do with traditional Jewish music. Despite this, the players are exclusively Jewish, just about (correct me if I'm wrong about this, are there other non-Jews besides Anthony Coleman on those CDs?). All of this without a mention of the crimes being done in the name of Judaism as we speak. Besides, how can someone be the vanguard of a downtown/international Radical music scene and also claim to be 'non-political.' A non-political, RADICAL Jewish outlook is absurd. What does it mean? Here is quote from Elliott SHarp: "...and the only reason I would do a record on the Radical Jewish series (which is the one I did with Ronny Someck) was because he is a non Zionist, he is an Iraqi born Jew. An Israeli, but his attitude about it is outside, you know" from http://www.algonet.se/~repple/esharp/slovene1.htm (about a fifth of the way down the page). How is Ahad Ha-am's "cultural Zionism" different from what we find in Israel's government today? I'm not challenging this, I'd just like to know. None of this makes Zorn's music any less terror-ific, but it does make me question the ways the guy runs a business.... mg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: summer reading Date: 22 Aug 2001 07:06:16 -0400 I love the annual summer reading thread. For some reason I've gotten into potboilers this year, so a couple of quick crime reads that I really enjoyed are Michael Connelly's Void Moon, about a casino robbery that goes awry, with a plot that left me guessing until the very end; Thomas Perry's Blood Money, about a couple of people on the run from the mob, a bit slow near the beginning but very exciting last half; and David Ignatius' Agents of Innocence, a spy novel set in the Middle East and showing all the complexities of the region. A bit more complex, and sometimes a bit gory for my tastes, were Maurice G. Dantec's Racines du mal and Pavel Kohout's Widow Killer. Dantec writes long, complex novels with both SF and crime elements, and a sophisticated artificial intelligence that lives in a laptop plays a critical role in this novel. According to Amazon, his most recent novel Babylon Babies will be available last month, but it's an offbeat publisher, so who knows. Kohout is a Czech writer, and Widow Killer is set in the final days of WWII, very dark, without the happy ending that comes with most novels in the genre. In a more serious vein, I finally got around to Philip Gourevitch's history of the genocide in central Africa, We wish to inform you that tomorrow we will be killed with our families. The first half of the book covers the genocide itself, and the last half deals with the aftermath. Although I wasn't looking for confirmation here on the sheer stupidity of western news media. there was certainly plenty of that to go around. This was a very sympathetic and nuanced view of a recent complex situation, much better than I expected. Eric Schlosser's Fast Food Nation was a very interesting analysis of how America eats. His conclusions were a bit facile, but the factual material was sufficiently persuasive. Much of my reading this summer has been about music. Feldman's collection of essays, Give My Regards to Eighth Street, was hit-or-miss, but the hits, such as the essay Crippled Symmetry, where Feldman explains how his interest in Turkish rugs manifested itself in his music, were great. Robin Minard's book about his sound installations was pretty good, finally got around to reading Duckworth, etc. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: summer reading Date: 22 Aug 2001 07:51:03 EDT "Wonder Boys" Michael Chabon "How To Be Good" Nick Hornby "Give My Regards to Eighth Street" Morton Feldman "God and the New Physics" Paul Davies "Creating Minds" Howard Gardner "Palm Sunday" Kurt Vonnegut "Cat's cradle" Kurt Vonnegut Bought but haven't read yet: "Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius" Dave Eggers "Girl With The Curious Haircut" David Foster Wallace "Infinite Jest" DFW "The Bear Comes Home" Rafi Zabor Tom NP: NPR NR: The New Yorker Music Issue - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "dekater" Subject: convert Date: 22 Aug 2001 15:00:17 +0200 James Miller wrote: Quite some people reacted well by hearing Zorn or free music from my collection and started listening to/buying it, or went to concerts. So, it's ok. A lot of people don't like it, so what? Jan Luyben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "dekater" Subject: RE: Zorn's next major project Date: 22 Aug 2001 14:50:17 +0200 >>>I thought a fundamental tenet of postmodernism was the acknowledgement that there are no new ideas.<<< Including postmodernism? Jan Luyben - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: convert Date: 22 Aug 2001 09:19:59 EDT In a message dated 8/22/01 9:09:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dekater@worldonline.nl writes: > Quite some people reacted well by hearing Zorn or free music from my > collection and started listening to/buying it, or went to concerts. So, it's > ok. A lot of people don't like it, so what? > > Jan Luyben The Masada, Naked City and Filmworks music has impressed many of my friends who don't normally listen to jazz or hardcore or anything beyond basic pop/blues/rock. So yeah, there have been a few converts. "Big Gundown" went over pretty well, too. There has been no luck with the game pieces. Tom ______________________________________________________________________ Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately, and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Saleski Subject: Re: important? groundbreaking? huh? Date: 22 Aug 2001 10:25:00 -0400 > >Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:46:20 -0700 >From: Skip Heller >Subject: Re: important? groundbreaking? huh? > > My vote goes to Clark Terry, with Tommy a very close second. Barry Harris > still kills me, too. > > Steve Smith > ssmith36@sprynet.com > gees, i hate to admit this but once back in college (Univerity of Maine) a guy from my dorm tried to convince me to go to this show/clinic put on by the music department. it was with Clark Terry..... i didn't want to go...never heard of him....probably went back to my room to listen to my Cheap Trick record..... -- Mark Saleski - marks@foliage.com "Is it so wrong, wanting to be at home with your record collection?" - Nick Hornby - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: important? groundbreaking? huh? Date: 23 Aug 2001 08:02:10 -0700 > Do you seriously think Masada are unappreciated? > My impression is that some people are just getting sort of tired of the amount > of Masada releases. I can;t help but get the sense that this group is too "straight" for a lot of people who identify themselves as Zorn fans. sh - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: groundbreaking: the inverse Date: 22 Aug 2001 08:25:43 -0700 (PDT) --0-1700966795-998493943=:69565 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline With all this talk of jazz pianists, Zorn, and Stravinsky, I was thinking about composers/artists whose breakthroughs, or more specifically, whose most radical work, came _later_ in their careers...maybe even not until the end. I remember reading a Kyle Gann article dealing with this, perhaps about Morton Feldman, can't remember. Can anyone think of examples of this? I mean, John Wall is doing more and more interesting things, and apparently he didn't even pick up a sampler until mid-life. Wasn't some of Luigi Nono's most unique material done the last ten years of life, when he (CMIIW) really broke from serialism and started doing an intense and more apolitical quiet music? I'm kicking around a few names that might stand out as exceptions to the prodigious young talent. -----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ --0-1700966795-998493943=:69565-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: groundbreaking: the inverse Date: 22 Aug 2001 11:38:20 EDT In a message dated 8/22/01 11:30:22 AM, thesubtlebody@yahoo.com writes: << I was thinking about composers/artists whose breakthroughs, or more specifically, whose most radical work, came _later_ in their careers...maybe even not until the end. >> two current examples are Bill Dixon and Keith Rowe. both of these guys are creating the best, most radical work of their careers right now. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fastian@aol.com Subject: Michael Moore resend Date: 22 Aug 2001 11:54:00 EDT Since Mike or "Rizzi" said everything that was sent between the 16th and 20th was lost, let's try this again. I'm using the old version of aol so hopefully nobody will be annoyed. Cheers a second time. John > Michael Moore's "Jewels & Binoculars: The Music of Bob Dylan". James, Tell us some more about this new Moore. Is it Clusone 3. Is Bennink playing? greetings, Rob @ risk >> "Jewels and Binoculars" is one of Moore's better ones and of course that's really saying something. It has Lindsey Horner-bass and Michael Vatcher-percussion. Vatcher is perfect here for the eccentric sounds he makes. Not being that familiar with Dylan, the only piece familiar (to me) is Highway 61 revisited. Most of the cd is very beautiful ballad like compositions with Moore at his lyrical best. "White Widow" is the other of Moore's recent releases on Ramboy. It has Bennink,Mark Helias(b), and Alex Maguire(p) on it. Parts of this has a Clusone feel to it, maybe due to the spriteliness of some of it. This has more open parts than the other cd and more chance for solos. Maguire is as excellent as ever. I would say these cds would make any Moore fan very happy. Great to see the list going again. Trying to gather my strength back after 2 successive nights of David S. Ware's 4tet followed by 8 Bold Souls the next. Cheers, John Threadgould - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Re: Michael Moore resend Date: 22 Aug 2001 12:05:07 -0400 The players are Moore, Lindsey Horner and Michael Vatcher. They cover a pretty broad range of Dylan songs, from "Percy's Song" (a Dylan concert staple from the early days in NYC) to "Dark Eyes" but the concentration is on stuff from the early to mid-'60s ("I Pity The Poor Immigrant", "Fourth Time Around", "Visions of Johanna", "Highway 61 Revisited" -- a killer version -- "With God on our Side", "Boots of Spanish Leather") 11 tracks in all. It's a really superb recording. A review is forthcoming in Coda magazine... soon as I write it. The catalogue number is Ramboy #15. Fastian@aol.com wrote: > Since Mike or "Rizzi" said everything that was sent between the 16th and > 20th was lost, let's try this again. I'm using the old version of aol so > hopefully nobody will be annoyed. Cheers a second time. > John > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mwisckol@ocregister.com Subject: the new yorker Date: 22 Aug 2001 09:39:49 -0700 ... strongly recommended is the story ostensibly on the steinway piano saleswoman, a touching tale about life, music and the power of a machine. martin p.s. i should have written: speaking of birdcalls, why has zorn LATELY neglected this groundbreaking instrument. ... and yes, i haven't been listening to zorn much lately either. but little can match hearing for the first time "shuffle boil" on that monk tribute LP, then tracking down "the big gundown" and then the next few -- spillane, spy v. spy, coming across voodoo and news for lulu in the used record store (is george lewis incredible or what?).... i've followed since, but with diminishing returns.... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joslyn Layne" Subject: Re: Mahfouz and summer reading Date: 22 Aug 2001 12:53:02 -0400 My favorite Mahfouz is still the first one i read: Children of Gebelaawi which retells some of the more famous bible stories in the same setting as his other books (Egyptian alleys). can't say for sure if i'd like it best if i'd read another 1st, but it's a good one. Coincidentally, i also just read Murakami (Hard Boiled Wonderland) for the first time. ann arbor has a good public library & i picked it at random off the shelves.. really odd, fun, & imaginative. My favorite recently-read book: Thomas King, Green Grass Running Water the 2nd book by modern Canadian fiction author, recommended to me by Guelph festival lynchpin Ajay Heble, who teaches Canadian fiction. I found this book to be funny, and really well-written. i was holding it up shaking it like a bible at some friends not too long ago at a local bar. If you like that dry, biting, wicked kind of humor, Stephen Fry's "The Hippopotamus" was hysterical -- although be forewarned, there's one small bestiality scene, so maybe don't buy it for your niece's birthday... Joslyn NR: Quentin Crisp, How to Have a Life-Style - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Re: Mahfouz and summer reading Date: 22 Aug 2001 13:21:42 -0400 Joslyn Layne wrote: > My favorite recently-read book: > Thomas King, Green Grass Running Water > the 2nd book by modern Canadian fiction author, recommended to me by Guelph > festival lynchpin Ajay Heble, who teaches Canadian fiction. It's worth noting that Mr. King is also the (un)official photographer for the Guelph Jazz Fest and does some beautiful work in that field, too. Tom is also the (semi)fictional host of a hilarious radio parody called The Dead Dog Cafe Comedy Hour, which pokes outrageous fun at relations between whites and natives. I believe it also runs on some NPR stations and is widely available on CD. James Hale - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "josephneff" Subject: RE:groundbreaking Date: 22 Aug 2001 14:00:35 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C12B12.D0FC0EB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, ....John Coltrane continued to break new ground up to the end of = his life. That life was cut short, so maybe it doesn't apply to the = question of late-career innovation in the manner the asker intended, = but...."Interstellar Space" is easily one of Coltrane's most important = works, and at the point of its recording, sax/drum duos were not at all = common (how many pre-date "Inter. Space"?), and the music is so intense = that it was neglected for years. Think about how in the mid 60,s, the = jazz community at large still had a problem accepting piano-less groups. = Often I wonder just how much more innovation Coltrane would have been = capable of had he lived. When you (or I anyway) think of what he did in = just seven years (60-67), it's more than a bit mind boggling.=20 ....I do agree, however, that breaking ground is no qualifier = in my appreciation of an artist's or band's work. How many great 50's = post-bop sessions sound just smokin, but didn't break a bit of new = ground? Quite a few, I'd say. The majority of the rock and blues records = in my collection don't break a bit of ground, they just sound great. = What does bum me out a little, though, is when an artist progresses = within their own work, only to revert back to an earlier, ultimately = more restrictive or conservative style. Sonny Rollins, for example. I = heard some of more recent stuff on a jazz radio show about a year ago, = and it just sounded stale. I listened to "East Broadway Rundown" a = coupla weeks ago, and THAT still sounds killer. Shepp did some stuff in = the 80's that didn't connect with me at all (though Steve Smith's = weighty live report from a while ago gave me hope for the guy yet). I'm = not at all demanding that every artist innovate, but it can get = seriously depressing watching artists backslide. Relating this to free = jazz, I'd say that Cecil Taylor is the only big name from the original = American musicians still living that hasn't backslid (names like Dixon = and Bley don't register as big to me, because you can read chapter = entries in jazz books on free that don't mention either, though both = were involved in key events in the music's history). Now, I know = opinions will differ about whether or not Taylor still innovates, but I = would never say he backslid. But I guess you can say I expect different = things from different people. When I listen to a Bill Evans record, all = I expect is first-rate contempo-piano jazz, and I've never been = disappointed. I know I'd be a little confused and bothered if tomorrow = Cecil released a record where he sounded just like Art Tatum or Monk or = Cecil in 59.=20 ....if Coltrane would have lived, would he have backslid? I remain.... Joseph NP: AMM "AMMMusic 1966" CD NR: Harold Brodkey "First Love and Other Sorrows" =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C12B12.D0FC0EB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,
        ....John=20 Coltrane continued to break new ground up to the end of his life. That = life was=20 cut short, so maybe it doesn't apply to the question of late-career = innovation=20 in the manner the asker intended, but...."Interstellar Space" is easily = one of=20 Coltrane's most important works, and at the point of its recording, = sax/drum duos were not at all common (how many pre-date "Inter. = Space"?), and=20 the music is so intense that it was neglected for years. Think about how = in the=20 mid 60,s, the jazz community at large still had a problem accepting = piano-less groups. Often I wonder just how much more innovation Coltrane = would=20 have been capable of had he lived. When you (or I anyway) think of = what he=20 did in just seven years (60-67), it's more than a bit mind=20 boggling. 
 
        =20 ....I do agree, however, that breaking ground is no qualifier in my = appreciation=20 of an artist's or band's work. How many great 50's post-bop = sessions sound=20 just smokin, but didn't break a bit of new ground? Quite a few, I'd say. = The=20 majority of the rock and blues records in my collection don't break a = bit of=20 ground, they just sound great. What does bum me out a little, = though, is=20 when an artist progresses within their own work, only to revert back to = an=20 earlier, ultimately more restrictive or conservative style. Sonny = Rollins, for=20 example. I heard some of more recent stuff on a jazz radio show about a = year=20 ago, and it just sounded stale. I listened to "East Broadway Rundown" a = coupla=20 weeks ago, and THAT still sounds killer. Shepp did some stuff in the = 80's that=20 didn't connect with me at all (though Steve Smith's weighty live report = from a=20 while ago gave me hope for the guy yet). I'm not at all demanding=20 that every artist innovate, but it can get seriously depressing = watching=20 artists backslide. Relating this to free jazz, I'd say that Cecil Taylor = is the=20 only big name from the original American musicians still living that = hasn't=20 backslid (names like Dixon and Bley don't register as big to me, because = you can=20 read chapter entries in jazz books on free that don't mention either, = though=20 both were involved in key events in the music's history). Now, I know = opinions=20 will differ about whether or not Taylor still innovates, but I would = never say=20 he backslid. But I guess you can say I expect different things from = different=20 people. When I listen to a Bill Evans record, all I expect is first-rate = contempo-piano jazz, and I've never been disappointed. I know I'd be a = little=20 confused and bothered if tomorrow Cecil released a record where he = sounded just=20 like Art Tatum or Monk or Cecil in 59. 
 
       = ....if=20 Coltrane would have lived, would he have backslid?
 
 
I remain....
 
Joseph
 
NP: AMM "AMMMusic 1966" CD
NR: Harold Brodkey "First Love and = Other=20 Sorrows" 
------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C12B12.D0FC0EB0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: the new yorker Date: 22 Aug 2001 10:43:40 -0700 On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:39:49 -0700 mwisckol@ocregister.com wrote: > > p.s. i should have written: speaking of birdcalls, why has zorn LATELY > neglected this groundbreaking instrument. ... and yes, i haven't been > listening to zorn much lately either. but little can match hearing for the > first time "shuffle boil" on that monk tribute LP, then tracking down "the ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Totally agree! A masterpiece of concision and energy (with "The Violent Death Of Dutch Schultz"). Should have been released as a single with an MTV video! BTW, there were rumors about releasing finally the complete 2xLP of THAT'S THE WAY I FEEL NOW on CD (and not the toddler friendly version that came out a decade ago -- without Zorn, of course...). Paul Audino was expecting it by the end of 2000. Any updates? Patrice. NP: PRODUCT OF THE ENVIRONMENT: Tricky NR: 100 YEARS OF SOLITUDE: G.G.M. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hatta Subject: Re: Murakami (was summer reading) Date: 22 Aug 2001 10:48:45 -0700 I think the current New Yorker Short story,'Honey Pie' is a cute story if not stunning and it seems pretty resolved (for Murakami). It is also conveniently available online at As for his next book it is expected to be out April 2002 and the literal translation is: 'All God's Children Will Dance'. Also the long delayed Rubin bio/treatment 'Haruki Murakmai and the Music of Words'(Harvill) looks like it will probably come out in 2003. I agree with your assessment of 'Sputnik Sweetheart' However the post Greece bit, it really stands in opposition in a fashion that implies perhaps more than I got out of it. I definitely have to read it again, to really make sense of it. -Robert > ><> > >I thought this was pretty good. I divide Murakami's books into novels and >"entertainments", a la Graham Greene, and I thought SS was the best of his >entertainments thus far. > >for Murakami completists, there's a very good short piece in the new issue of >Granta, Issue 74. his New Yorker stories are always excerpts from upcoming >novels, but this felt like an actual story, and Amazon UK doesn't list >anything new coming up for him. > >Jon >www.erstwhilerecords.com > -- "Education is experience, and the essence of experience is self-reliance." -T.H. White, 'The Sword in the Stone' - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: Re: Fwd: Zorn & ?Zionism? Date: 22 Aug 2001 19:57:01 +0200 > >from day one. Why the conspiracy tone? Are labels producing (say) Gypsy or > > >Balkan music "suspicious"? > Gypsy music is not a 'reimagining' of culture. 'Traditional' forms are most often best mastered by traditional players. The re-imagining of culture is a major marketing strategy in selling world music today. Is Django Reinhardt a traditional player? What is a 'traditional' player/ gypsy? Is he dressing up like one, and if he is, would his music be of lesser quality? An avant-garde gypsy label, with a lavish back catalogue of French and Balkan 78s transferred to digital might just be the one thing that will emphasize the true strength of their music: richness, not traditionalism per se. >Zorn's own Radical Jewish CUlture music is often about the Jewish >experience, but usually has almost nothing (overtly) to do with traditional >Jewish music. You said it: *traditional*. There may be others styles around in Jewish music. A culture is not only defined by its tradition, but is also measured by its flexibility and freshness. >Despite this, the players are exclusively Jewish, just about (correct me if >I'm wrong about this, are there other non-Jews besides Anthony Coleman on those CDs?). You mean in the Radical Jewish Music series? Why would that be? There is an Extreme Japan bin for the rest of us... >All of this without a mention of the crimes being done in the name of >Judaism as we speak. Are you serious? (I don't know if I have permission to breath here), but I don't recall the recent JAZZ IN PARIS cd-reissues make any mention of the imperialistic crimes made on behalf of the French Empire, or any apology in the editions of Bachs Cantates. Remco Takken - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: Re: Naked City Date: 22 Aug 2001 19:31:49 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C8_01C12B41.16888980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable How come we get 5 live Masada CD's and no Naked City Live albums? = They performed a number of songs live that never ended up on any = album... Imagine the excitement this would drum up...-Theo All the songs, and the author's rights, of Masada tunes, are by Zorn, = nothing has to be sorted out on the legal side.=20 But with the *MANY* soundtrack tunes Naked City played live, author = rights can be very unclear at this moment. This sort of thing could very = well turn out to be a big financial loss for Tzadik: there might be = nothing in it, only tedious work. Remember Zappa's LETS MAKE A JAZZ NOISE HERE: it was reprinted without = the Stravinsky Histoire du Soldat excerpt, because the owners of the = work didn't approve. (I have no idea btw if this omission is still there = in current pressings). Remco Takken ------=_NextPart_000_00C8_01C12B41.16888980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

      How come we get 5 live Masada = CD's and=20 no Naked City Live albums?  They performed a number of songs live = that=20 never ended up on any album...  Imagine the excitement this would = drum=20 up...-Theo

All the songs, and the author's rights, of Masada tunes, are by Zorn, = nothing=20 has to be sorted out on the legal side.

But with the *MANY* soundtrack tunes Naked City played live, author = rights=20 can be very unclear at this moment. This sort of thing could very = well turn=20 out to be a big financial loss for Tzadik: there might be nothing in it, = only=20 tedious work.

Remember Zappa's LETS MAKE A JAZZ NOISE HERE: it was reprinted = without the=20 Stravinsky Histoire du Soldat excerpt, because the owners of the work = didn't=20 approve. (I have no idea btw if this omission is still there in = current=20 pressings).
 
Remco Takken
 
------=_NextPart_000_00C8_01C12B41.16888980-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: Re: groundbreaking: the inverse Date: 22 Aug 2001 20:00:44 +0200 > With all this talk of jazz pianists, Zorn, and > Stravinsky, I was thinking about composers/artists > whose breakthroughs, or more specifically, whose most > radical work, came _later_ in their careers...maybe > even not until the end. I remember reading a Kyle > Gann article dealing with this, perhaps about Morton > Feldman, can't remember. Can anyone think of examples > of this I am not sure, but wasn't Schoenberg 48 years old when he fully defined the 12tone theory for the first time in his work? I have no books at hand to verify this, I just try a shot. Remco Takken - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mwisckol@ocregister.com Subject: writing about music is like... Date: 22 Aug 2001 10:58:51 -0700 anybody read and have any comment on: 1. Dead Man Blues (Jelly Roll Morton biography) 2. Paul Bley (auto?) biography 3. Bossa Nova (focus on Joao Gilberto, I believe) ? NP. the office clack of keyboards NR. House Resolution 2475 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Kayser" Subject: AMM & more (no Zorn) Date: 22 Aug 2001 14:00:47 -0400 Brian Oelwnick wrote: << I'd have to say "Tunes without Measure or End" is on the so-so side. >> Seconded here. I'm not sure why they think this is one of their best performances ever, perhaps you had to be there. That's kinda the point of AMM I guess. One of the things I like about AMM is the element of surprise and edge in their music. My sense here is that Tilbury's Feldman influence has surfaced, bringing with it a certain calmness not present in their 20th century work. Total lack of aggression on this new cd, it's almost like their twisted version of ugh smooth jazz. Never would have expected so-so for AMM. Surprisingly, I find all three of them to be more AMM-ish lately in projects away from AMM, certainly in the three duo cds with Evan Parker (Rowe's Dark Rags and Prevost's Most Materiall both are killers), and Prevost's trio with Tom Chant and bass-wonder John Edwards. Let's not forget that these fellows have been together in one form or another since 1965. This their first release since 1996. Maybe it's just AMoreMellow AMM. An interesting contrast is the latest Schlippenbach Trio 2CD "Swinging the Bim." This group has been around almost as long as AMM, and though this may no longer be the "new thing", or as shocking as their initial recording "Pakistani Pomade", it is every bit as strong and (there's that word again) aggressive. And swinging it is. There's not a dull moment among the over 100 minutes. Though Alex von's name appears above the credits, this is very much a three leader group. Evan Parker certainly is the soprano and tenor monster of his time, and Paul Lovens is the equal of any percussionist. Luckily their slim output over the first twenty years or so has been greatly increased with not only this one, but a couple more FMPs, an Atavistic release of an amazing 1975 performance, and a Leo which combines Parker's involvement with Alex von and his own Parker-Guy-Lytton dynamic trio. A feast for EP and AvS fans of all races, creeds, and colors!!! Let's hope that AMM bounces off the ropes on their next one. According to Prevost, Matchless has lots of stuff in the can, so wouldn't we love another "Laminal"- type box set? Anyone have any thoughts on MIMEO? Haven't heard their 2CD on Grob, would like an opinion. Alan E Kayser _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: Re: RE:groundbreaking Date: 22 Aug 2001 20:13:32 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0161_01C12B46.EA485AC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable does bum me out a little, though, is when an artist progresses within = their own work, only to revert back to an earlier, ultimately more = restrictive or conservative style. Sonny Rollins, for example. I heard = some of more recent stuff on a jazz radio show about a year ago, and it = just sounded stale. I listened to "East Broadway Rundown" a coupla weeks = ago, and THAT still sounds killer.=20 things from different people. When I listen to a Bill Evans record, all = I expect is first-rate contempo-piano jazz, and I've never been = disappointed I have that same feeling on Bill Evans. Sonny Rollins can imho be = listened to in the same vein as you do Bill Evans; furthermore, his = recent RECORDED output might be a problem (although I *love* Sweet = Leilani on 'This is what I do), his live work is still powerful and = strong. And he's still performing live. Remco Takken=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0161_01C12B46.EA485AC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
does bum me out a little, though, = is when an=20 artist progresses within their own work, only to revert back to an = earlier,=20 ultimately more restrictive or conservative style. Sonny Rollins, for = example. I=20 heard some of more recent stuff on a jazz radio show about a year ago, = and it=20 just sounded stale. I listened to "East Broadway Rundown" a coupla weeks = ago,=20 and THAT still sounds killer.
 
things from different people. When I = listen to a=20 Bill Evans record, all I expect is first-rate contempo-piano jazz, and = I've=20 never been disappointed
 
I have that same feeling on Bill Evans. Sonny = Rollins can imho=20 be listened to in the same vein as you do Bill Evans; furthermore, his = recent=20 RECORDED output might be a problem (although I *love* Sweet Leilani = on  'This is what I do), his live work is still powerful and=20 strong. And he's still performing live.
Remco Takken 
------=_NextPart_000_0161_01C12B46.EA485AC0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors Subject: the shape of [?] to come... Date: 22 Aug 2001 14:09:24 -0400 Six months ago alasnoaxis kicked off their tour at tonic then off to europe [as usual]. I was less than impressed with the performance at tonic in the spring, but glad to see the guys playing and to hear the songs off the album in a live context. The experience was missing something for me, that push at the boundary of the song structure or maybe it was just the first gig before setting off on the european tour. Part of me wanted to apply for that open position with the group as roadie advertised that night at tonic. Now after last nights performance my whole idea of this band and their objective is totally changed. They took their songs as mere jumping off points into further explorations of intense sound and crawling melodic passages. The new material has a very focused style and approach where there was ust a hint of in the first album. A lot more use of electronics, all very well applied, tho I feel that chris speed needs to work in this area in relation to the rest of the group. If yeah no was a funk group, alasnoaxis would be a rock group. The thing that really impressed me the most about jim's approach to this group as a band leader is that he shocks himself, skuli and chris out of their comfort zone and really pushes a new sound from their combination. Skuli was sporting a new bass [from what I have seen] that gives him a great new sound, more fretty and textured. Needless to say, hilmar amazes me with his stylistic dexterity and control of the guitar. If they needed roadie after the second set last night, I would have gone in a second. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Re: writing about music is like... Date: 22 Aug 2001 14:15:06 -0400 The Paul Bley bio "Stopping Time" (which is co-written by former Coda editor David Lee) has some interesting stories, but it takes the same minimalist approach that Bley applies to a lot of his music. If I remember correctly, his breakup with Annette Peacock occupies about one paragraph. There are some interesting insights into how he approaches music, though Bley is notorious for refusing to discuss his music. I notice that David Lee has an ad in the current issue of Coda informing anyone interested in the book that it can be ordered directly from him. That may indicate that the publisher (which was a small one based in Quebec) has either gone under or deleted the book from its catalogue. James Hale mwisckol@ocregister.com wrote: > anybody read and have any comment on: > > 1. Dead Man Blues (Jelly Roll Morton biography) > 2. Paul Bley (auto?) biography > 3. Bossa Nova (focus on Joao Gilberto, I believe) > > ? > > NP. the office clack of keyboards > NR. House Resolution 2475 > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: Re: Fwd: Zorn & ?Zionism? Date: 22 Aug 2001 14:26:05 -0400 At 19:57 22/08/01 +0200, r.takken@planet.nl wrote: > >All of this without a mention of the crimes being done in the name of > >Judaism as we speak. > >Are you serious? (I don't know if I have permission to breath here), but I I know this is irrelevant to some, but I prefer to know that the music I listen to is not coming from a political idiot. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert A. Pleshar" Subject: Cultural vs. regular Zionism Date: 22 Aug 2001 15:00:44 -0500 At 10:50 AM 8/22/01 +0000, Millie Gorgon wrote: >Gypsy music is not a 'reimagining' of culture. 'Traditional' forms are most often best mastered by traditional players. Zorn's own Radical Jewish CUlture music is often about the Jewish experience, but usually has almost nothing (overtly) to do with traditional Jewish music. Despite this, the players are exclusively Jewish, just about (correct me if I'm wrong about this, are there other non-Jews besides Anthony Coleman on those CDs?). All of this without a mention of the crimes being done in the name of Judaism as we speak. There are certainly non-Jews appearing on these CDs. I think Anthony Coleman is Jewish though. I don't know for sure, but I'm betting that Arto Lindsay, Mike Patton, the Melvins and Andrew D'Angelo for instance are not likely Jews. Even if only Jews appeared on these discs I don't think it would be necessarily bad. I think that part of the idea is that Radical Jewish Culture includes many different outlooks and is supposed to point out that Jewish Culture is not a monolithic thing, but that there is a great deal of possibility in exploring the various aspects of past and present Jewish cultures and mixing them with other ideas and influences. Burt Bacharach and Serge Gainsbourg made "jewish" music that doesn't sound "jewish" because they are/were Jews. I suppose a bunch of non-Jews could be a part of the series if they did an album of radical reinterpretations of say, cantorial chants or klezmer or even Steve Lacy tunes. I don't think that expressing ones self in terms of a sort of Jewish culture necessitates taking an overt political stance reagrding Israel in one's music. We simply do not know the true feelings of perhaps ANY of the people on these discs regarding current Middle East politics. For all we know, their stances could range from one extreme to the other. >Besides, how can someone be the vanguard of a downtown/international Radical music scene and also claim to be 'non-political.' A non-political, RADICAL Jewish outlook is absurd. What does it mean? It means (to me anyway) finding a new way of looking at Jewishness that has nothing to do with politics or even religion. Being Jewish has a lot of cultural baggage, I see this as a way of trying to throw off that which you don't like/want/believe. It's a way of making Jewish culture that is specifically not tied to the old guard religious and political institutions. It's like punk rock. It's how you choose to signify yourself as opposed to being expected to be a certain way because you're Jewish. >How is Ahad Ha-am's "cultural Zionism" different from what we find in Israel's government today? I'm not challenging this, I'd just like to know. I see cultural Zionism as a banding together of Jewish thoughts, ideas, culture, art, music with no overt political leaning or geographical boundaries. It has only as much to do with Israel as Jews in Israel want to have to do with it. "Real" Zionism on the other hand, is exclusively the movement to have Jews living in Israel. I think there is a vast difference. >None of this makes Zorn's music any less terror-ific, but it does make me question the ways the guy runs a business.... Why exaclty? The man runs the business (in most instances) like a mensch. Money from previous releases goes right back into making more and it is run as a non-profit as I understand it. I see nothing in his approach to the RJC series that is really too different from, say, the AACM being a new way to think about "black" music and culture or the dutch governemnt subsidising dutch artists and musicians. Anyone want to join me in a Radical Bohemian/Italian/Jewish/Quebecois-American Mongrel Culture Series? Rob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Fujii/Feldman Date: 22 Aug 2001 16:02:54 -0400 Just catching up on some overlooked discs from the past few months. Has anyone else heard the duets by Satoko Fujii and Mark Feldman? They are beautiful. James Hale - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert Subject: Re: Fujii/Feldman Date: 22 Aug 2001 22:28:52 +0200 Tell us some more James Hale wrote: > duets by Satoko Fujii and Mark Feldman greetings, Rob @ risk - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Samuel Quentin" Subject: Re: groundbreaking: the inverse Date: 22 Aug 2001 15:48:47 -0500 i can definitely think of examples of artists who started out good and just got better and better and better. and more experiemental. this pops into my mind because i think it is the most desirable of situations for an artist to start out with great chops and a daring, experimental output that just multiplies in these respects with age. a lot of people seem to like Coltrane's hard bop period (as far as jazz radio stations and Ken Burn's types go) but i think his stuff only got better as time went on and he headed more in the direction of a more 'freeish' jazz. i think Milford Graves is better now and has a more solid edge than ever. and i also think the quality of Anthony Braxton's work has improved and covered a more meaningful ground as time has gone on. i guess i appreciate this because that's what i would love to do... create my masterpiece or best work two days before i die and be at my peak. -samuel With all this talk of jazz pianists, Zorn, and Stravinsky, I was thinking about composers/artists whose breakthroughs, or more specifically, whose most radical work, came _later_ in their careers...maybe even not until the end. I remember reading a Kyle Gann article dealing with this, perhaps about Morton Feldman, can't remember. Can anyone think of examples of this? I mean, John Wall is doing more and more interesting things, and apparently he didn't even pick up a sampler until mid-life. Wasn't some of Luigi Nono's most unique material done the last ten years of life, when he (CMIIW) really broke from serialism and started doing an intense and more apolitical quiet music? I'm kicking around a few names that might stand out as exceptions to the prodigious young talent. -----s _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Samuel Quentin" Subject: if Coltrane had lived... Date: 22 Aug 2001 16:01:49 -0500 ....if Coltrane would have lived, would he have backslid? man, i've asked myself and others that question a thousand times. i just think about how different it would all be if he had gone on in his constantly searching way for another 40-50 years and it just gets me soooo excited... what would have happened!!!? but the thought of him just going on to play crappy rehash bop in 1985 with the likes of Marsalis... well... maybe Coltrane would have never impacted my life the way he has and i wouldn't be on this list and perhaps wouldn't even be a musician. so i suppose i'll just let him rest in peace. -Samuel _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: groundbreaking: the inverse Date: 23 Aug 2001 14:05:46 -0700 a lot of people seem to like Coltrane's hard bop period (as far as jazz > radio stations and Ken Burn's types go) I'm neither a Ken Burns type nor a jazz radio station listener, but I happen to prefer Coltrane's hard bop stuff to any of his other periods. And I wake up every morning and, before I do much of anything else, practice about 20 choruses of "Giant Steps" at quarter note=240. Where do I fit in to your pinheaded stereotyping? skip heller np: Malo -- "Suavecito" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: groundbreaking: the inverse Date: 22 Aug 2001 14:05:10 -0700 On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:48:47 -0500 "Samuel Quentin" wrote: > > i can definitely think of examples of artists who started out good and just > got better and better and better. and more experiemental. > this pops into my mind because i think it is the most desirable of > situations for an artist to start out with great chops and a daring, Desirable? According to what criteria? > experimental output that just multiplies in these respects with age. > a lot of people seem to like Coltrane's hard bop period (as far as jazz > radio stations and Ken Burn's types go) but i think his stuff only got > better as time went on and he headed more in the direction of a more > 'freeish' jazz. > i think Milford Graves is better now and has a more solid edge than ever. > and i also think the quality of Anthony Braxton's work has improved and > covered a more meaningful ground as time has gone on. Braxton? Really? I see more and polite reviews of what Braxton is doing these days (the wishy-washy kind, which these days means more and more that you be well advised to save your precious $15) which would make me think that Braxton's fans have some mixed feelings concerning his recent output. I could be wrong, but I don't see Braxton building a new audience with what he is doing these days. Looks like the converted are still behind, and the rest is outside almost indifferent (or listening to the older stuff). I am of course talking of his fairly recent output (past 6-10 years). > i guess i appreciate this because that's what i would love to do... create > my masterpiece or best work two days before i die and be at my peak. Not to discourage you, but being creative in his old age is the exception, not the rule. At best we can expect to understand better the world around us. That has little to do with creativity... Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: groundbreaking: the inverse Date: 23 Aug 2001 14:13:29 -0700 > > On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:48:47 -0500 "Samuel Quentin" wrote: >> >> i can definitely think of examples of artists who started out good and just >> got better and better and better. and more experiemental. >> this pops into my mind because i think it is the most desirable of >> situations for an artist to start out with great chops and a daring, > Not to discourage you, but being creative in his old age is the exception, > not the rule. At best we can expect to understand better the world around > us. That has little to do with creativity... > There are some cats who live out on the limb as they get older. Uri Caine is 47 and definitely at his most fertile. Improvising is generally a young person's sport (look at Lee Morgan, Dizzy Gillespie, Paul Bley etc), but there have been artists who reinvent at least part of what they do and maybe enter new vital period -- Mingus, Carla Bley, Glenn Gould, and Zappa (Synclavier period) leap to mind as people who made sharp turns that improved their creative road. It depends on who we're speaking of, but the numbers tell us to bet on the young. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: groundbreaking: the inverse Date: 22 Aug 2001 14:19:52 -0700 On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:13:29 -0700 Skip Heller wrote: > > > > > > > On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:48:47 -0500 "Samuel Quentin" wrote: > >> > >> i can definitely think of examples of artists who started out good and just > >> got better and better and better. and more experiemental. > >> this pops into my mind because i think it is the most desirable of > >> situations for an artist to start out with great chops and a daring, > > > Not to discourage you, but being creative in his old age is the exception, > > not the rule. At best we can expect to understand better the world around > > us. That has little to do with creativity... I specially meant that if you have done little creative things in your youth, there is a microscopic chance that it will change in your old age. Concerning artists, it is more about breakthroughs (which happens when they are young) and on which we had a discussion a few years ago. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer Subject: summer reading Date: 22 Aug 2001 18:16:02 -0400 Best authors I read this summer (and hadn't read before) Taruho Inagaki - One Thousand One-Second Stories This one is the most amazing. Published in Japanese in 1923. Translated to English in 1998. This book is described as "an early modernist gem". But what is the most amazing thing about it is that elements that the American post-modern writers of the 60s and 70s (e.g. Donald Barthelme and Robert Coover) strove to attain are captured perfectly here, half a century earlier. I read this book and I just said to myself, "Coover's Pricksongs and Descants is a pale imitation of this book." This book is unbelievable in how good it is and how misplaced in time it is, and how absolutely unrecognized it seems to be. Yasushi Inoue - Loulan This guy is pretty famous but I had never read him. He gives a new definition to historical fiction. His scholarly specialty seems to be China, pre 1000 A.D. It reads like a cross between a narrative and a history text. What he doesn't know historically, he makes up but you can't tell where one starts and the other ends. The tone is unique because it is a sad, predetermined tone. The protagonists are fated to meet their doom, which naturally they are since Inoue has studied the modern-day archeological remains of the peoples, and knows that they did indeed meet such a fate. Reinaldo Arenas - The Graveyard of the Angels In the 1980s Avon/Bard published a line of paperbacks showcasing the best Latin American authors of the second half of the twentieth century translated from Spanish or Portuguese into English. These ranged from Nobel laureates, Gabriel Garcia Marquez & Miguel Angel Asturias, to other well-known literary figures such as Jorge Amado and Mario Vargas Llosa, to lesser known authors. When I see a book in this line (necessarily at used book stores) I buy it on sight because experience has taught me that 80 or 90% of these books are fantastic (of the 40 or so I have read). (The best are by Jorge Ibarguengoitia & Joao Ubaldo Ribeiro, which read as quickly and easily as any contemporary literature I have encountered.) Anyway, this summer I read a few more in this series. "The Graveyard of the Angels" is a retelling of a Cuban novel that was published and promptly forgotten in 1882. Arenas retells it with both the super-readability and the combination of fantasy/realism that has come to be best represented by recent Latin American literature. (Not as good as Ibarguengoitia's "Two Crimes" or "The Dead Girls" but pretty good all the same.) Anyway, I'll stop here. David K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Re: Fujii/Feldman Date: 22 Aug 2001 18:32:32 -0400 It's on a label I'm not all that familiar with: EWE (EWCC 0006). 15 pieces, including seven duets with Feldman. Satoko overdubs piano on a few pieces. Satoko is playing more in her Paul Bley vein here; in fact, it reminds me a lot of her debut solo recording. She and Feldman fit together very well. It's called "April Showers". Rob Allaert wrote: > Tell us some more > > James Hale wrote: > > > duets by Satoko Fujii and Mark Feldman > > greetings, > Rob @ risk - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer Subject: mainstream jazz piano; Zorn in the 90's, etc. Date: 22 Aug 2001 18:45:10 -0400 On the subject of "mainstream jazz piano; Zorn in the 90's, etc.", Matthew Mitchell posted a contrary opinion on the merits of Tommy Flanagan (in response to favorable reviews posted by Jon Abbey and Steve Smith). I don't have an opinion on Tommy Flanagan one way or the other, but I was happy to hear two sides of the argument. Kudos to all involved for educating me from both sides of the fence. This diversity of opinion epitomizes the value of the zorn list. But the post that followed (in response to Matthew's post) represents the worse tendencies of the zorn-list. Statements such as: "I've personally never heard you play, so I am by no means saying you're ignorant or anything." obviously insinuates the opposite of the literal meaning of the statement. "You're antagonistic remarks re Uri..." By what criterion is someone's opinion about music judged an "antagonistic remark"? Finally, comments like, "As to the second paragraph -- not Bill Evans or Denny Zeitlin? Now you're telling me something about yourself" is a personal attack. This response to Matthew had no intellectual content or merit. It simply is a cowardly personal attack on someone who had the courage to voice an unpopular opinion. And Matthew quietly swallowed the insulting response without reply on the zorn list. First I would like to publicly commend Matthew for posting an opinion which he clearly knew beforehand would be unpopular. Second, I would like to ask the members of the zorn list to make conscious attempts to keep the discussion on the subject and above the level of personal attacks. David "ready to get flamed" K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: mainstream jazz piano; Zorn in the 90's, etc. Date: 23 Aug 2001 18:08:16 -0700 > But the post that followed (in response to Matthew's post) represents the > worse tendencies of the zorn-list. Statements such as: "I've personally > never heard you play, so I am by no means saying you're ignorant or > anything." obviously insinuates the opposite of the literal meaning of the > statement. "You're antagonistic remarks re Uri..." By what criterion is > someone's opinion about music judged an "antagonistic remark"? Finally, > comments like, "As to the second paragraph -- not Bill Evans or Denny > Zeitlin? Now you're telling me something about yourself" is a personal > attack. > > This response to Matthew had no intellectual content or merit. It simply > is a cowardly personal attack on someone who had the courage to voice an > unpopular opinion. And Matthew quietly swallowed the insulting response > without reply on the zorn list. First I would like to publicly commend > Matthew for posting an opinion which he clearly knew beforehand would be > unpopular. Second, I would like to ask the members of the zorn list to > make conscious attempts to keep the discussion on the subject and above the > level of personal attacks. > > David "ready to get flamed" K. > > David -- > Actually, Matt and I have interacted on and off this list on an "agree to strongly disagree" basis enough that, if I say something like that literally, he takes it literally. I never have heard him play. But I also know enough about his taste to not assume ignorance. We have discussed the email in question since it was posted, and I have not for a second gotten the impression that he took any offense by it. We actually got deeper into the issue. And my feelings toward him are completely friendly (even if he never unearthed that Monk fakebook). Matthew, by the way, is a pianist, and a remark about "Not Denny or Bill" does say something about a pianist and his relationship to things that are inherently pianistic (same goes for certain types of remarks about Oscar Peterson). It's not a dig. It's an observation about how a pianist sees the instrument. Finally, Matt has made some really, really nasty remarks about Uri Caine's playing. I don't hold it against him, but I also probably won't let him off the hook anytime soon. I won't flame you, but I will say this -- don't assume certain motivations are in place when you don't know the relationship in question. I respect Matt a lot, but I no would no more hold my tongue in this instance than I would expect him to hold his. skip heller - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: summer reading Date: 23 Aug 2001 18:10:05 -0700 Anyone else read SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA: AN ISLAND ON THE LAND by Carey McWilliams? It's as smart a piece of anthropology as I have ever read, but reads like a great novel (lots of larger than life characters, corruption etc). Great beach book. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: RE:groundbreaking Date: 23 Aug 2001 02:27:39 +0000 >From: "josephneff" > ....John Coltrane continued to break new ground up to the end of >his life. ....if Coltrane would have lived, would he have backslid? > A subject for endless speculation! What we do know is that Trane was playing the 'electric' saxophone (the one that Eddie Harris briefly popularised) in private, and had also played a couple of gigs with Wes Montgomery in the band...ultimately it seems that certain artists give so much in pursuit of their 'art' that they are prematurely doomed. And, on the reading thread, anyone familiar with the German writer W.G. Sebald, author of Emigrants, Rings Of Saturn, and his newest Vertigo? np: Jackie McLean 4 5 and 6 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew Mitchell" Subject: Re: mainstream jazz piano; Zorn in the 90's, etc. Date: 22 Aug 2001 22:53:59 -0400 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I of course didn't clarify and say LIVING american composer, which is what I meant. Can't you read my mind? :) Also, I was thinking more along the lines of notated music, the 'contemporary classical' thing, whatever you want to call it... Well, just off the top, there's John Cage, Charles Mingus, Conlon Nancarrow, Charles Ives, Harry Partch, Duke Ellington, Thelonious Monk, John Zorn, Samuel Barber, John Coltrane, George Crumb, Herbie Nichols, Morton Feldman, Steve Reich, Jimi Hendrix, Charles Ruggles, Frank Zappa, Gordon Gano, Miles Davis, Bob Dylan, Terry Riley, Lou Reed, Lamonte Young, Charles Parker, Ingram Marshall, Gordon Monahan, Robert Johnson, Lennie Tristano, Willie Dixon, James Brown, Les Baxter, etc. etc. etc. why I believe I could on for days... np: Stravinsky Rite Of Spring Kirov Orchestra Valery Gergiev _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - --- Matthew Mitchell --- matmi@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
I of course didn't clarify and say LIVING american composer, which is what I meant.  Can't you read my mind? :)
 
Also, I was thinking more along the lines of notated music, the 'contemporary classical' thing, whatever you want to call it...
 
 
Well, just off the top, there's John Cage, Charles Mingus, Conlon Nancarrow,
Charles Ives, Harry Partch, Duke Ellington, Thelonious Monk, John Zorn,
Samuel Barber, John Coltrane, George Crumb, Herbie Nichols, Morton Feldman,
Steve Reich, Jimi Hendrix, Charles Ruggles, Frank Zappa, Gordon Gano, Miles
Davis, Bob Dylan, Terry Riley, Lou Reed, Lamonte Young, Charles Parker,
Ingram Marshall, Gordon Monahan, Robert Johnson, Lennie Tristano, Willie
Dixon, James Brown, Les Baxter, etc. etc. etc. why I believe I could on for
days...
 
np: Stravinsky Rite Of Spring Kirov Orchestra Valery Gergiev
 
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 
 
-
 

 
--- Matthew Mitchell
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew Mitchell" Subject: RE:groundbreaking Date: 22 Aug 2001 23:22:30 -0400 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Actually, wasn't the band that contained Wes in the early 60's, like 1961? Didn't I read somewhere that one live version of the band was the classic quartet, plus Dolphy AND Wes Montgomery? Tangentially related: Doesn't a tape exist somehwere of the Miles quintet of the 60's, minus miles and with Gary Peacock instead of Ron Carter? Another Tangent: Do tapes exist of the same quintet plus Joe Henderson, a configuration that's been reported before? randomly, -matt mitchell ----- Original Message ----- chatterton Sent: 8/22/01 10:27:39 PM From: "josephneff" jneff@visuallink.com ....John Coltrane continued to break new ground up to the end of his life. ....if Coltrane would have lived, would he have backslid? A subject for endless speculation! What we do know is that Trane was playing the 'electric' saxophone (the one that Eddie Harris briefly popularised) in private, and had also played a couple of gigs with Wes Montgomery in the band...ultimately it seems that certain artists give so much in pursuit of their 'art' that they are prematurely doomed. And, on the reading thread, anyone familiar with the German writer W.G. Sebald, author of Emigrants, Rings Of Saturn, and his newest Vertigo? np: Jackie McLean 4 5 and 6 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - --- Matthew Mitchell --- matmi@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Actually, wasn't the band that contained Wes in the early 60's, like 1961?  Didn't I read somewhere that one live version of the band was the classic quartet, plus Dolphy AND Wes Montgomery?
 
Tangentially related: Doesn't a tape exist somehwere of the Miles quintet of the 60's, minus miles and with Gary Peacock instead of Ron Carter?
 
Another Tangent: Do tapes exist of the same quintet plus Joe Henderson, a configuration that's been reported before?
 
randomly,
 
-matt mitchell
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 8/22/01 10:27:39 PM
Subject: RE:groundbreaking

>From: "josephneff" <jneff@visuallink.com>
 
>         ....John Coltrane continued to break new ground up to the end of
>his life.        ....if Coltrane would have lived, would he have backslid?
>
 
A subject for endless speculation! What we do know is that Trane was playing
the 'electric' saxophone (the one that Eddie Harris briefly popularised) in
private, and had also played a couple of gigs with Wes Montgomery in the
band...ultimately it seems that certain artists give so much in pursuit of
their 'art' that they are prematurely doomed.
 
And, on the reading thread, anyone familiar with the German writer W.G.
Sebald, author of Emigrants, Rings Of Saturn, and his newest Vertigo?
 
np: Jackie McLean 4 5 and 6
 
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 
 
-
 

 
--- Matthew Mitchell
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew Mitchell" Subject: Re: groundbreaking: the inverse Date: 22 Aug 2001 23:26:36 -0400 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Elliott Carter. His masterwork, Sum Fluxae Pretium Spei, was completed in 1996, when he was 87. He's 92 or something now; since that work, he's written numerous small solo violin and piano works, a clarinet concerto, a cello concerto, a song cycle, miscellaneous chanber pieces, and an opera. His 'breakthrough' work, the one that kind of codified his approaches for the rest of his career, was the First String Quartet, written in 1951, when he was 43. He's not the norm, obviously, but a wonderful exception, though. -matt ----- Original Message ----- Quentin Sent: 8/22/01 4:48:47 PM inverse i can definitely think of examples of artists who started out good and just got better and better and better. and more experiemental. this pops into my mind because i think it is the most desirable of situations for an artist to start out with great chops and a daring, experimental output that just multiplies in these respects with age. a lot of people seem to like Coltrane's hard bop period (as far as jazz radio stations and Ken Burn's types go) but i think his stuff only got better as time went on and he headed more in the direction of a more 'freeish' jazz. i think Milford Graves is better now and has a more solid edge than ever. and i also think the quality of Anthony Braxton's work has improved and covered a more meaningful ground as time has gone on. i guess i appreciate this because that's what i would love to do... create my masterpiece or best work two days before i die and be at my peak. -samuel With all this talk of jazz pianists, Zorn, and Stravinsky, I was thinking about composers/artists whose breakthroughs, or more specifically, whose most radical work, came _later_ in their careers...maybe even not until the end. I remember reading a Kyle Gann article dealing with this, perhaps about Morton Feldman, can't remember. Can anyone think of examples of this? I mean, John Wall is doing more and more interesting things, and apparently he didn't even pick up a sampler until mid-life. Wasn't some of Luigi Nono's most unique material done the last ten years of life, when he (CMIIW) really broke from serialism and started doing an intense and more apolitical quiet music? I'm kicking around a few names that might stand out as exceptions to the prodigious young talent. -----s _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - --- Matthew Mitchell --- matmi@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Elliott Carter.  His masterwork, Sum Fluxae Pretium Spei, was completed in 1996, when he was 87.  He's 92 or something now; since that work, he's written numerous small solo violin and piano works, a clarinet concerto, a cello concerto, a song cycle, miscellaneous chanber pieces, and an opera.  His 'breakthrough' work, the one that kind of codified his approaches for the rest of his career, was the First String Quartet, written in 1951, when he was 43.
 
He's not the norm, obviously, but a wonderful exception, though.
 
-matt
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 8/22/01 4:48:47 PM
Subject: Re: groundbreaking: the inverse

i can definitely think of examples of artists who started out good and just
got better and better and better. and more experiemental.
  this pops into my mind because i think it is the most desirable of
situations for an artist to start out with great chops and a daring,
experimental output that just multiplies in these respects with age.
  a lot of people seem to like Coltrane's hard bop period (as far as jazz
radio stations and Ken Burn's types go)  but i think his stuff only got
better as time went on and he headed more in the direction of a more
'freeish' jazz.
  i think Milford Graves is better now and has a more solid edge than ever.
  and i also think the quality of Anthony Braxton's work has improved and
covered a more meaningful ground as time has gone on.
 
  i guess i appreciate this because that's what i would love to do... create
my masterpiece or best work two days before i die and be at my peak.
 
  -samuel
 
With all this talk of jazz pianists, Zorn, and
Stravinsky, I was thinking about composers/artists
whose breakthroughs, or more specifically, whose most
radical work, came _later_ in their careers...maybe
even not until the end.  I remember reading a Kyle
Gann article dealing with this, perhaps about Morton
Feldman, can't remember.  Can anyone think of examples
of this?  I mean, John Wall is doing more and more
interesting things, and apparently he didn't even pick
up a sampler until mid-life.  Wasn't some of Luigi
Nono's most unique material done the last ten years of
life, when he (CMIIW) really broke from serialism and
started doing an intense and more apolitical quiet
music?  I'm kicking around a few names that might
stand out as exceptions to the prodigious young
talent.
 
-----s
 
 
 
 
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 
 
-
 

 
--- Matthew Mitchell
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: late Coltrane Date: 23 Aug 2001 00:10:40 -0400 Apres nothing but likely to please more than a few, Impulse is marking Coltrane's 75th birthday this year. They've started with some pretty lackluster compilations and things like that, but I've read somewhere that wife Alice and son Ravi are finally rooting through the family's private tape holdings and that Coltrane's last earthly performance, at Olatunji's community center in '67, is going to be issued in the next few months. Personally, I hope they issue it in time for 'Tunji himself to see it, and that hearing it will cure him of whatever has him laid up seriously ill in a Boston hospital. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Witchery, ""Resurrection," 'Dead, Hot and Ready' (Necropolis) (which I'd nominate as a potential Spinal Tap of death metal, if Dimmu Borgir didn't have such a tight hold on that honor...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: AMM & more (no Zorn) Date: 23 Aug 2001 01:11:41 EDT as most people here know, I'm always willing to discuss anything AMM-related, so here goes: Alan said: <> let's not go overboard. they've been fairly mellow for a while now, but Tunes Without Measure and End is just not a very representative performance. I saw AMM play seven shows in April, and probably six of them were better than this CD. and the show they played in the Autumn Uprising festival in Boston last fall was as good as any improv set I've ever seen. the problem here isn't that the band is declining, it's in the material they chose to release. since I'm fairly close to the situation, I'll just leave it at that. <> the double CD on Grob is pretty good, although since it's from 1998, it doesn't document just how great this band has become. I'm releasing their next CD, the collaboration with John Tilbury which they performed in Bologna in May. that should be out next March. they're also talking about releasing some of the material from the 24 hour concert they performed last year in Vand'ouevre, but those discussions are still pretty early on. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tosh Subject: Re: summer reading Date: 22 Aug 2001 22:42:38 -0700 on 8/22/01 3:16 PM, David Keffer at keffer@planetc.com wrote: > > > Best authors I read this summer (and hadn't read before) > > Taruho Inagaki - One Thousand One-Second Stories > This one is the most amazing. Published in Japanese in 1923. Translated > to English in 1998. This book is described as "an early modernist gem". > But what is the most amazing thing about it is that elements that the > American post-modern writers of the 60s and 70s (e.g. Donald Barthelme and > Robert Coover) strove to attain are captured perfectly here, half a century > earlier. I read this book and I just said to myself, "Coover's Pricksongs > and Descants is a pale imitation of this book." This book is unbelievable > in how good it is and how misplaced in time it is, and how absolutely > unrecognized it seems to be. > I want to give my 2 cents to the above title: it's a fantastic book. Also around the same time in Japan there was a writer by the name of Edogawa Rampo. If you say the name out loud it sounds like Edgar Allan Poe. Well he named himself after Poe. His stories are really creepy with strong sexual overtones. He has only one book published in English (and still in print) called ... I forgot the title! Anyway it's an interesting time culturally for Japan. Thanks for mentioning Taruho Inagaki! > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: You call this *summer* reading? Date: 22 Aug 2001 22:52:07 -0700 David Liss, _A Conspiracy of Paper_ Murder mystery set in London's financial community in the early days of the South Sea Bubble (late 17-teens). Liss's argument is that the sort of thinking involved in detection is related to the sort of thinking involved in financial speculation & that they came into being around the same time (which would make historical detectives set earlier than the 18th century anachronistic, I guess). I'm not completely convinced (tho he is a historian of the period in dayjob-land) but it's a hell of a read. James Elkins, _The Domain of Images_ A monstrous piece of Art History/Theory. Elkins' goal is to stake a claim for Art History as a valid tool for the analysis of *all* images -- not just paintings, drawings, photographs, etc., but crystallographic projections, genetic maps, chinese calligraphy, typography, histograms, whatever: his argument is that whereever you choose to place the "divide" between text and image, you're wrong -- that there's a continuum which approaches "pure" text and image asymptotically, but that there is always some sort of admixture -- and that art historians have a unique and useful perspective (pardon the term) to tweeze them apart. Not quite a "Unified Theory of Images" but give him another 10 years. Highly recommended. George P. Pelecanos, _Shame the Devil_ Yes, pulp at last! P. ties off the Stefanos and Karras series together, mirroring their chronological start in _The Big Blowdown_, as both characters reel into middle age. Not the best of either sequence but a fairly satisfying conclusion (with as much mayhem as you'd like in the final scenes); I guess he's started fresh with the new one, but I haven't got there yet. John Brunner, _Shockwave Rider_ One of Brunner's Big novels of the late 60s-mid 70s (the others: _Stand on Zanzibar_, _The Jagged Orbit_, _The Sheep Look Up_), an odd blend of _Camp Concentration_ and _Neuromancer_ -- but _Neuromancer_ 7 years before the fact, surprisingly prescient about many of the tropes of the early cyberpunk novels, and featuring some "speculation" that looks surprisingly normal in 2001. Highly recommended. Haruki Murakami, _Underground_ Well, this is not the Murakami y'all are usually on about (same person yes, but I mean ...): a Turkel-like approach to the Aum subway attacks, interview after interview. The repetition of the same central events becomes numbing after awhile but also takes in some of the pleasures of _Rashomon_ (or a good policier) as you try to juggle the contradictions between (& anonymous appearances in each others' stories) the various victims. Like the Morley below, not exactly beach reading. Mick Farren, _Vickers_ Near-future noir that turns apocalyptic midway, but whose central gag is too easily spotted as ripped off from a classic P.K. Dick novel. A disappointment. Looking forward to the forthcoming memoirs, though. J.-K. Huysmans, _Becalmed_ The less-well-known saddle between the peaks of _Against Nature_ and _La-Bas_: bankrupt decadent, decaying chateau, simple yet larcenous peasants. Unceasing rain. Owls. What more could you ask? John Dunning, _The Bookman's Wake_ OK, I guess I *am* on a pulp binge. Dunning's lead character is an ex-cop turned rare book dealer, following a trail of corpses leading to a rare edition of Poe. When kollektorskum go bad ... Paul Morley, _Nothing_ The NME and Art of Noise guy, a long self-reflexive meditation on his inability to remember details of the time surrounding his father's suicide, 24 years ago. Moving and intermittently hilarious, _Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius_ through a British sensibility (tho obviously independently conceived). More of a winter book really, but what the hell. R.A. Lafferty, _Apocalypses_ Just started this, it packages together two short novels _Where Have You Been, Sandaliotis_ and _The Three Armageddons of Enniscorthy Sweeney_ ... I suspect it's packaged this way because neither title would fit on the spine ;-) ... I think RAL takes it as a challenge to set up the most mind-bobblingly nonsensical situation he can improvise in the first five pages and then to spend two hundred pages trying to make sense out of it. My head's still rotating too fast to comment. Huh, actually does look like a summer list after all. -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "I mean, you realise that Throbbing Gristle could have been as successful as the Nolan Sisters if they'd understood structure and procedure." -- Kim Fowley np: Ihan, _Iota_ nr: R.A. Lafferty, _Apocalypses_ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: groundbreaking Date: 23 Aug 2001 23:03:28 -0700 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3081452608_3351975_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Actually, wasn't the band that contained Wes in the early 60's, like 1961? Didn't I read somewhere that one live version of the band was the classic quartet, plus Dolphy AND Wes Montgomery? Wes sat in a few times. Trane invited him to join the band. he said no and went onto greener pastures. By greener, I mean the color of money. Another Tangent: Do tapes exist of the same quintet plus Joe Henderson, a configuration that's been reported before? Not so far, and I have LOOKED!! skip h --MS_Mac_OE_3081452608_3351975_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: groundbreaking

Actually, wasn't the band that contained Wes in the early 60's,= like 1961?  Didn't I read somewhere that one live version of the band = was the classic quartet, plus Dolphy AND Wes Montgomery?

Wes sat in a few times.  Trane invited him to join the band.  he = said no and went onto greener pastures.  By greener, I mean the color o= f money.



Another Tangent: Do tapes exist of the same quintet plus Joe Henderson, a c= onfiguration that's been reported before?

Not so far, and I have LOOKED!!

skip h
--MS_Mac_OE_3081452608_3351975_MIME_Part-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: summer reading Date: 22 Aug 2001 23:06:19 -0700 "Caleb T. Deupree" wrote: > > A bit more complex, and sometimes a bit gory for my tastes, were Maurice G. > Dantec's Racines du mal Is this in English yet? I can only find an Italian copy online ... -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "I mean, you realise that Throbbing Gristle could have been as successful as the Nolan Sisters if they'd understood structure and procedure." -- Kim Fowley np: nr: R.A. Lafferty, _Apocalypses_ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: Off-topic metal post and Anthony Braxton info, all in one Date: 23 Aug 2001 06:30:39 >Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com >NP - Witchery, ""Resurrection," 'Dead, Hot and Ready' (Necropolis) >(which I'd nominate as a potential Spinal Tap of death metal, if >Dimmu >Borgir didn't have such a tight hold on that honor...) Six Feet Under? Witchery? Dimmu Borgir? Are you going through and listening to everything on that giant "Metallinium" (sp) tour roster? And did you PAY for all this? Hopefully you at least wound up w/ one of the Soilent Green CDs too ... Actaully, I might nominate someone like Krisiun (who are amazing, just also kind of funny since they are so gung-ho and over the top) as the Spinal Tap of DM. Or that Necrophagist CD that Aquarius Recs has been big on, for anyone who follows that kind of stuff. Although death metal (and black metal, which is, or at least was, more Dimmu Borgir's territory) is full of Spinal Taps (minus the "sexy" stuff), which of course is part of what makes it great, at least sometimes. Speaking of Aquarius, I passed on the reviews of that Anthony Braxton/Alex Horwitz CD that were circlated here a while back to them, and they have now have a review of it on their site (www.aquariusrecords.org/) that is pretty funny, looking at from a different perspective than the norm, I guess: "BRAXTON, ANTHONY W/ ALEX HORWITZ Four Compositions (Duets) 2000 (CIMP) cd 16.98 Imagine Neil Hamburger backed up by a drunk Albert Ayler. Imagine the worst comedian you've ever seen competing for your attention with an avant jazz musician in the same room. Imagine a 10 minute comedy sketch based on the assumption that DVD stands for digital -versatile- disc ("I mean, I imagine the DVD wearing a dress and singing a song or painting a picture" or something like that) all to the strains of atonal horns. I mean, we're well aware that there's a healthy chunk of Aquarius customers that scan our lists specifically for things we describe as 'fucked' or 'ridiculous' or 'bizarre' or even just 'stupid'. Well, you're in for it now. You have been warned. Anthony Braxton, much revered performer/composer/improviser, in yet another incomprehensible collaborative epiphany, has finally teamed up with...a stand up comedian. It's true. And of course, it wouldn't be true improvisation if the comedian weren't improvising as well, so what we're left with, is a series of skronks and squeals, and a series of witty (read: fucking stupid) riffs on newspaper headlines that are NOT FUNNY. REALLY NOT FUNNY. I don't mean Neil Hamburger not funny, I mean plain old bad not funny...unbearably painful. So painful in fact that our own Andee qualifies this as a must own!!" I really should buy this from them, but if anyone is dying to get this disc off his/her hands, I might me able to help ... WY _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se (Stephen Fruitman) Subject: Re: Fwd: Zorn & ?Zionism? Date: 23 Aug 2001 10:22:02 +0200 (MET DST) Robert A. Pleshar said much of what I would have but here=B4s a few personal thoughts on the subject: >Zorn's own Radical Jewish CUlture music is often about the Jewish >experience, >but usually has almost nothing (overtly) to do with >traditional Jewish music. A lot of the tunes on various albums by various artists delve very deeply into Jewish liturgy, cantorial sounds, klezmer and theatre music. A lot is new - was e.g. Monk=B4s jazz less "Afro-American" because of its newness? >Despite this, the players are exclusively Jewish You know, they may even be in the minority.... >All of this without a mention of the crimes being done in the name of >Judaism >as we speak. ? And these tragic events occurring the Middle East have what to do with music gnerated almost entirely on the American east coast? Must e.g. all Balkan musicians address the situation in the former Jugoslavia? (Moreover, and strictly politically speaking, in _all_ inter-ethnic conflicts, there are always at least four side - hawks and doves on both sides.) >Besides, how can someone be the vanguard of a downtown/international >Radical >music scene and also claim to be 'non-political.' A >non-political, RADICAL >Jewish outlook is absurd. What does it mean? You seem to think that "Jewish" is in someway identical with a political entity or stance. The Jews living in Israel and those who support them or are interested in the state are involved in its politics (and they stretch across the entire political spectrum, like in any nation); the rest (majority) of world Jewry comprise a religious, ethnic and/or cultural group. Or some mix of all or some of the above. Is it absurd to speak of "radical" culture? I would say the course which arts and letters has taken over past hundred years or so shows clearly that "radical" is not a strictly political term. >How is Ahad Ha-am's "cultural Zionism" different from what we find in >Israel's >government today? I'm not challenging this, I'd just like to >know. =46or one, cultural Zionism in strictly non-political and like Zorn, wished to generate and (after the war) regenerate Jewish culture throughout the Diaspora. I doubt the listers want a lecture on Ahad Ha-am=B4s thought, even in capsule form, but I=B4d be glad to provide one to you off-list if you wish. Stephen Fruitman Dept of Historical Studies Ume=E5 University SE-901 87 Ume=E5 Sweden - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Lankin" Subject: Re: late Coltrane Date: 23 Aug 2001 07:09:12 -0400 And speaking of mid-Coltrane, Fantasy is releasing a 7-CD set of live Coltrane from European concerts from 1961-63. Half the material is unissued. Alan Lankin lankina@att.net http://jazzmatazz.home.att.net ----- Original Message ----- Sent: August 23, 2001 12:10 AM > Apres nothing but likely to please more than a few, Impulse is marking > Coltrane's 75th birthday this year. [...] > > Steve Smith - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: re: summer reading Date: 23 Aug 2001 14:15:26 +0200 Hello all... Since I'm also addicted to reading, I too love the discussion of books on this list. Here are some of the books I've read recently and that I enjoyed very much: 01. Irvine Welsh: Glue I've been into Welsh ever since his first publication, and have read all of them. I did enjoy his one from about two years ago, Filth, but most of the people I know didn't. Glue, I feel, is a step further in his development. It starts in the 60s, introducing four male characters, goes into the 70s, in which those guys' sons take over the lead in the story, then they take us into the 80s, on into the 90s - when they are still around - but also some of their younger brothers are introduced. The story sheds a light on how life (in Britain) has changed over the course of those decades - very interesting, and also very well written. Another thing I love about Welsh is how some of the personas one knows from his previous novels re-appear in his new books. So be prepared to meet Renton, Spud and Begby again... 02. Eiji Yoshikawa: Taiko Some might remember Yoshikawa's Musashi - often described as Japan's "Gone With The Wind". Well - definitely his books are epic, and in both Musashi and Taiko the main character is very heroic. I did enjoy reading this very much, even though from around page 500 to page 700 I did struggle a bit... 03. Jeroen Lamers: Japonius Tyrannus - The Japanese Warlord Oda Nobunaga Reconsidered Oda Nobunaga plays an important role in Yoshikawa's Taiko. This publication here is the latest attempt of a biography on Nobunaga. Very well researched. 04. Juzo Suzuki: Kuniyoshi - Exhibition To Commemorate The 200th Anniversary... 05. Juzo Suzuki: Ukiyo-e Arts Spanning 20 Years 06. Timothy Clark: Ukiyo-e Paintings In The British Museum For a while now I've been into Japanese woodblock prints, and the three books here are very nice. (Not much reading, but lots of stuff to look at...) 07. Ryunosuke Akutagawa: Rashomon & Other Stories Read this shortly after seeing the film version by Kurosawa. Entertaining. 08. Yasunari Kawabata: Palm-Of-The-Hand Stories (Short Stories) Kawabata has been one of my favourites ever since I've read my first book by him. Must admit though that I must be in the right mood for his works, because they tend to make me feel a little depressed and/or melancholic. This publication here is a collection of early short stories, and I find them to be very good. 09. Haruki Murakami: Underground This is not a novel by Murakami. It's based on interviews he did with people who were affected by the Tokyo Underground gas attack. I didn't get past the first 30 pages - way too depressing... 10. Haruki Murakami: Sputnik Sweetheart Like others have said before: nice work by HM. 11. Haruki Murakami: Dance, Dance, Dance Another enjoyable read by HM. Apart from Underground I have so far enjoyed every single publication by him. 12. Toshio Saeki: The Early Works Not exactly for the faint-hearted... ;-) 13. Takahiro Kitamura (Horitaka): Bushido - Legacies Of The Japanese Tattoo Well - I've been heavily into the art of tattooing for a few years now. Traditional Japanese tattooing is considered to be the best there is out there. And this book is about today's leading artist: Horiyoshi III from Yokohama, written by one of his disciples - with lots of full-page colour photographs. Breathtaking... 14. Samuel M. Steward: Bad Boys And Tough Tattoos S. M. Steward was more widely known as Phil Sparrow, one of the granddaddies of traditional American tattooing. No pix, just a recollection of his life as a tattoo artist. I find the fact interesting that Steward was a professor at a University before going into the tattooing trade... Already ordered, but not received yet: Kobo Abe: The Box Man Tao Tao Liu Sanders: Dragons, Gods & Spirits From Chinese Mythology Don Ed Hardy: Tattooing The Invisible Man patRice np: New Order, True Faith nr: Japan Tattoo Artist Horiyoshi's World, Vol. 2 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Kayser" Subject: AMM & more (no Zorn) Date: 23 Aug 2001 09:15:41 -0400 Jon Abbey wrote: "as most people here know, I'm always willing to discuss anything AMM-related, so here goes: Alan said: <> let's not go overboard. they've been fairly mellow for a while now, but Tunes Without Measure and End is just not a very representative performance. I saw AMM play seven shows in April, and probably six of them were better than this CD. and the show they played in the Autumn Uprising festival in Boston last fall was as good as any improv set I've ever seen. the problem here isn't that the band is declining, it's in the material they chose to release. since I'm fairly close to the situation, I'll just leave it at that." Thanks for your input Jon. Most of us are not so fortunate to be able to attend so many (or any at all) AMM performances. I would not characterize them as declining as individuals, quite the opposite as indicated in their work apart from AMM. I suppose my expectations were high due to their pre-release statements that this was one of their best performances EVER! This is a 35 year history, and why they would select this one is a mystery to me. It's not bad, it's just not very exciting, especially after a five year wait since their last release. I suppose, too, that their three duo projects with Evan Parker raised my hopes for their AMM project. As an aside, Prevost's Matchless is a classy label. Very informative liner notes, added new material, etc. But I do miss that snappy artwork. The new stuff is pretty weak. Thanks for the MIMEO input. Alan E Kayser _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: writing about music is like... Date: 23 Aug 2001 10:52:01 -0400 (EDT) Books: Paul Bely's volume is a little self-agrandizing, but what autobiography isn't? Bley has led a fascinating musical life though, probably not as well planned as he suggests in the book, however. He does have good stories about his experiences with Charlie Parker Sun Ra, Ornette Coleman et. al -- and how many others (Canadians to boot) can say they played with that many original folk. Another book worth investigating is pianist Burton Greene's bio (Cadence Books), Memoirs of a Musical "Pesty Mystic". It too runs off the track a few times, but also provides an insight into the life of another pioneering free jazz pianist. And look out for the pages of jokes at the end. Ken Waxman --- mwisckol@ocregister.com wrote: > anybody read and have any comment on: > > 2. Paul Bley (auto?) biography _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ajda Snyder" Subject: Re: Anthony Braxton comedy Date: 23 Aug 2001 11:48:50 -0400 Hmmm... >Imagine the worst comedian you've ever seen competing for your attention >with an avant jazz musician in the same room. Anthony Braxton, much revered > performer/composer/improviser, in yet another incomprehensible >collaborative epiphany, has finally teamed up >with...a stand up comedian. It's true. And of course, it wouldn't be true >improvisation if the comedian weren't improvising as well, so what we're >left with, is a series of skronks and squeals, and a series of witty (read: >fucking stupid) riffs on newspaper headlines that are NOT FUNNY. REALLY NOT >FUNNY. This totally reminds me of Don Byron's stage banter. Headlines, politics, Clinton jokes (gag - well this was a few years back). Ajda the Turkish Queen http://mp3.com/turkishqueen http://wmbr.mit.edu/schedesc.html#binge _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tosh Subject: Re: summer reading Date: 23 Aug 2001 09:15:42 -0700 There seems to be that some on this list are fans of Japanese literature. May I suggest reading the works of Osamu Dazai. He was a fascinating character and in image and lifestyle totally the opposite of Yukio Mishima. Dazai came from a well-connected political family in Japan who went to an University in Tokyo and became totally left-wing plus developed a taste for hard drugs, drinks, and geishas. My favorite book of Dazai's is his short story collection called 'Self Portraits.' The stories are great, plus there is commentary by its translator and editor on what really took place in these stories. His novels are 'The Setting Sun' and 'No Longer Human.' In his early years Dazai attempted to commit suicide with his girlfriend at the time. He survived the suicide attempt, but unfortunately his girlfriend didn't. In 1947, he committed suicide with another woman. I believed both drowned in a river nearby Tokyo. Mishima in his early career hated Dazai, because he thought of him weak. At a literary party that Mishima attended, he zeroed on to Dazai who was then surrounded by his fellow writers - commented to Dazai 'that he didn't like his work.' To say this in such a circle was shocking. But Dazai just commented that 'for him to say that means that he really loves me.' Mishima was totally taken back by Dazai's comment. Dazai's work is very witty and charming, but also has a taste of poison. -- Tosh Berman TamTam Books http://www.tamtambooks.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Ong Subject: James Coleman: Theremin "Zuihitsu" Date: 23 Aug 2001 12:15:03 -0400 Hi, This summer I've really been enjoying James Coleman's new disc on Sedimental, which I noticed just popped up on Mr Abbey's distribution list. I hope he (Coleman) doesn't cringe at the comparison, but at times it reminds me of the Such double on Matchless - bowed percussion, an Eastern tinge, quiet and beautiful sounding. I'm not very familiar with music involving a theremin, but it's played very delicately on this record with a less is more feel. I particularly liked the tracks with Greg Kelley. Coleman and Kelley complement each other very well - they should really put out a duo record sometime. Bhob Rhainey, Tatsuya Nakatani, Vic Rawlings, and Liz Tonne also contribute. I should stop here; go check out the better descriptions at FE and www.zuihitsu.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: summer reading (Japanese authors) Date: 23 Aug 2001 13:12:41 EDT Why and how is it that so many of you know so much about Japanese literature? Is there some direct connection between it and avant music? I'm just curious about this because I don't recognize most of the listed authors and I'm wondering if there's a good author or book I should read to introduce me to this obviously fertile genre. (Should I even generalize as to call all Japanese authors part of the same genre?) Ignorant but hoping for enlightenment, Tom In a message dated 8/23/01 12:26:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tosh@loop.com writes: > There seems to be that some on this list are fans of Japanese literature. > May I suggest reading the works of Osamu Dazai. > > He was a fascinating character and in image and lifestyle totally the > opposite of Yukio Mishima. Dazai came from a well-connected political > family in Japan who went to an University in Tokyo and became totally > left-wing plus developed a taste for hard drugs, drinks, and geishas. My > favorite book of Dazai's is his short story collection called 'Self > Portraits.' The stories are great, plus there is commentary by its > translator and editor on what really took place in these stories. His > novels are 'The Setting Sun' and 'No Longer Human.' In his early years > Dazai attempted to commit suicide with his girlfriend at the time. He > survived the suicide attempt, but unfortunately his girlfriend didn't. In > 1947, he committed suicide with another woman. I believed both drowned in a > river nearby Tokyo. > > Mishima in his early career hated Dazai, because he thought of him weak. At > a literary party that Mishima attended, he zeroed on to Dazai who was then > surrounded by his fellow writers - commented to Dazai 'that he didn't like > his work.' To say this in such a circle was shocking. But Dazai just > commented that 'for him to say that means that he really loves me.' Mishima > was totally taken back by Dazai's comment. > > Dazai's work is very witty and charming, but also has a taste of poison. > > > -- > Tosh Berman > TamTam Books > http://www.tamtambooks.com ______________________________________________________________________ Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately, and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: You call this *summer* reading? Date: 23 Aug 2001 10:14:35 -0700 On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:52:07 -0700 Jim Flannery wrote: > > J.-K. Huysmans, _Becalmed_ > The less-well-known saddle between the peaks of _Against Nature_ and _La-Bas_: > bankrupt decadent, decaying chateau, simple yet larcenous peasants. Unceasing > rain. Owls. What more could you ask? Great and unexpected novel after A REBOURS (AGAINST NATURE). Zola and other members of the naturalist movement almost felt that Huysmans was back home with EN RADE (BECALMED). Did not happen. The gothic and mystic elements so ubiquitous in LA-BAS can definitely find their roots in this novel. The sophistication of Huysmans' writing is taking a slight break after A REBOURS, but he cannot hide it (like in the description of the "decaying chateau"). Patrice. NP (loop): song "Polly Jean" live by Jean-Louis Murat (with excerpt of reading of Genet's biography! which gives a creepy feeling to the whole song, not so far from what you get reading EN RADE). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: groundbreaking: the inverse Date: 23 Aug 2001 10:24:04 -0700 (PDT) --- Samuel Quentin wrote: > a lot of people seem to like Coltrane's hard bop > period (as far as jazz > radio stations and Ken Burn's types go) but i think > his stuff only got > better as time went on and he headed more in the > direction of a more ... Skip Heller: [brags about practice habits then says] >Where do I fit in to >your >pinheaded stereotyping? Jesus Christ, Skip. -----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tosh Subject: Re: summer reading (Japanese authors) Date: 23 Aug 2001 10:38:16 -0700 A good introduction is John Lewell's 'Modern Japanese Novelists: A Biographical Dictionary" It is published by Kodansha. The ISBN is 4-7700-1649-2. The book is pricey at $50, but it gives out information on the leading authors of the 20th Century as well as books that have been translated into English. If one can't afford one, a library should have a copy in their collection. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: James Coleman: Theremin "Zuihitsu" Date: 23 Aug 2001 13:56:08 EDT In a message dated 8/23/01 1:12:52 PM, eso200@earthlink.net writes: << This summer I've really been enjoying James Coleman's new disc on Sedimental, which I noticed just popped up on Mr Abbey's distribution list. >> agreed, this is a very good record, as I mentioned here once before. just to clarify about my distribution list, it consists of maybe 20 or 25 titles I've traded with other labels for, often with overlapping musicians from my Erstwhile catalog. I sell these titles considerably cheaper than you'd find them anywhere else, usually $10 or $12. if you're interested in being added to the list, send me a private e-mail. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: mainstream jazz piano; Zorn in the 90's, etc. Date: 23 Aug 2001 18:04:27 +0000 >From: "Matthew Mitchell" > > >I of course didn't clarify and say LIVING american composer... > >Also, I was thinking more along the lines of notated music, the >'contemporary classical' thing, whatever you want to call it... > >A couple more thoughts on this topic: are notated scores mandatory for >recognition as a great composer? Does spontaneous composition >(improvisation) not qualify? Does a living composer necessarily create >living music? I can think of any number of 'composers' whose music I might >not want to 'classify' as living, while the musicks of many physically >deceased 'composers' still maintain their vitality. Isn't it time for Harry >Partch to be recognised as one of the great American composers? And exactly >what is the 'contemporary classical' thang? Does it include, for example, >someone like Hespos who composes music that often sounds like 'free jazz'? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Bill Dixon (Re: groundbreaking: the inverse) Date: 23 Aug 2001 11:05:53 -0700 (PDT) --- JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > two current examples are Bill Dixon and Keith Rowe. > both of these guys are > creating the best, most radical work of their > careers right now. Is Dixon working at all with larger-scale ensembles? If so, will it be released? The only remotely recent stuff I can think of is his guest spot with Tony Oxley's Celebration Orchestra, but those weren't his own compositions. -----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Bill Dixon (Re: groundbreaking: the inverse) Date: 23 Aug 2001 14:17:40 EDT In a message dated 8/23/01 2:06:41 PM, thesubtlebody@yahoo.com writes: << Is Dixon working at all with larger-scale ensembles? >> he led an orchestra in the Vision Festival recently, maybe in 2000. <> no idea, but he's notoriously tough to deal with, one reason that his discography is so small. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jerzy Matysiakiewicz Subject: hot thums o'riley Date: 23 Aug 2001 20:35:45 +0200 I've just got CD entitled Hot Thumbs O'Riley - Wicked Ivory. Line-up is mainly Skandinavian /with Pekka Pohjola on bass/ Music is crazy mix of blues, comedy and psychedelia a la early Frank Zappa. Could someone give me more info about this group /?/ Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: AMM & more (no Zorn) Date: 23 Aug 2001 15:25:23 EDT In a message dated 8/23/01 9:18:14 AM, alankayser@hotmail.com writes: << I suppose my expectations were high due to their pre-release statements that this was one of their best performances EVER! This is a 35 year history, and why they would select this one is a mystery to me. It's not bad, it's just not very exciting, especially after a five year wait since their last release. I suppose, too, that their three duo projects with Evan Parker raised my hopes for their AMM project. >> just chalk it up to a poor selection of material this time around and a silly statement in the press release. AMM is definitely still firing on all cylinders live. <> yeah, the cover to the new AMM CD is very weak, completely agreed. Rowe will be painting the cover to their next record, the aforementioned performance from Vand'ouevre this past May (which, as I said previously, is supposed to be great. maybe if Jacques Oger is still lurking 'round these parts, he can give us a report on the actual concert.) also, if you're in need of a Rowe painting fix, check out the home page to my web site, since he painted the cover for his upcoming duo CD with Toshi Nakamura. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= Subject: Tzadik's quality Date: 23 Aug 2001 18:59:09 +0200 Is nobody else amazed by the stuff which Zorn manages > to get his hands on and release?? > I am, and wait anxiously to every Tzadik release. Call me fanatic, but I share Arthur's opinion that Tzadik is one of the best labels running. In addition to the titles mentioned by Arthur, what about Susie Ibarra's "Flower after Flower", all Leo Smith's releases, Ikue Mori's, Fred Frith's "Clearing" and countless others? I really think that the list could go on really long. Greetings, Efrén del Valle n.p: David Krakauer "Klezmer, NY" _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= Subject: Jose Maceda Date: 23 Aug 2001 22:41:34 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C12C24.C3572E80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has Jos=E9 Maceda's album for Tzadik already been released? Any comments = on it? Thanks in advance, Efr=E9n del Valle n.p: Fred Frith "pacifica" (Tzadik, of course...) ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C12C24.C3572E80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Has Jos=E9 Maceda's album for Tzadik already been = released? Any=20 comments on it?
 
Thanks in advance,
 
Efr=E9n del Valle
 
n.p: Fred Frith "pacifica" (Tzadik, of=20 course...)
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C12C24.C3572E80-- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: Jose Maceda Date: 23 Aug 2001 18:27:30 -0400 Efr=E9n del Valle wrote: >=20 > Has Jos=E9 Maceda's album for Tzadik already been released? Any comment= s > on it? Yep, it's out. Three tracks, one from the late 60's, one from 1985 and one from 1999. The earliest piece, 'Pagsamba' is for 241 musicians, largely chorus playing small hand instruments. It's a bit two fuzzy and faux-Penderecki-ish for me, lots of chanting of Latin religious verses, etc. 'Suling-Suling', performed by a Mills College ensemble led by Frith is a more enjoyable piece for flutes and percussion, bubbling along quite nicely in an Asian-inflected minimalist vein. The most recent piece, "Colors Without Rhythm" is also the most effective, imo, scored for orchestra heavily laden with percussion. Very dreamy and slightly turbulent, not too far removed from Feldman's orchestral works, though gentler.=20 Maceda's 84 years old now, still teaching at the University of the Philippines. A friend there procured me a UP-produced disc with works by Maceda and four other contemporary composers. A couple were ok, but Maceda's (another performance of 'Colors Without Rhythm') was the cream. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: mainstream jazz piano; Zorn in the 90's, etc. Date: 24 Aug 2001 15:48:24 -0700 >> From: "Matthew Mitchell" >> >> >> I of course didn't clarify and say LIVING american composer... >> >> Also, I was thinking more along the lines of notated music, the >> 'contemporary classical' thing, whatever you want to call it... >> >> A couple more thoughts on this topic: are notated scores mandatory for >> recognition as a great composer? I think notated score are at this point less of a requirement, judging from how much of the more pre-planned music of this age is not notated with dots, beams, and stems. Does spontaneous composition (improvisation) not qualify? I think if, especially in a Zorn-type case, it qualifies if there's a framework dictating the events. Personally, I've always thought composition is the act of organizing elements in advance. If one of the elements in question is improvising, why not? But improvising (in the purest sense) is not the same as generating a composition. I know that sounds tedious, but... Does a living composer necessarily create living music? I think not, just by my recent experience writing for the new Flintstones movie. I was hired to write as much like Hoyt Curtin as possible, hopefully close enough that nobody could tell which music was new and which was old. I'd say I was writing in a non-living medium in that case, because Curtin so totally defined his musical realm that, when he passed, the realm passed with him. My job was sort of like Robert Parker's when he finished Raymond Chandler's POODLE SPRINGS manuscript. I can think of any number of 'composers' whose music I might >> not want to 'classify' as living, while the musicks of many physically >> deceased 'composers' still maintain their vitality. Isn't it time for Harry >> Partch to be recognised as one of the great American composers? He is in my house! And exactly what is the 'contemporary classical' thang? Does it include, for example, someone like Hespos who composes music that often sounds like 'free jazz'? Probably, in that some musicologist will come up with a list of schmeeze that defines what the twentieth-century requirements for composition were. Leonard Bernstein once said that 'modern music' (his quotes, not mine) begins with TRISTAN & ISOLDE. He caught a lot of flack from different guys for that remark, but I think I understood what he meant, which is that the path of modern music starts with less concentration on a tonal center as a way to deal with the music. It's a good premise, but one that has been so argued that I think we can say that terms like "modern music" or "contemporary classical" are so hard to define accurately that one may as well say "the American novel" or whatever. And few people agree on what makes a novel "American". skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Off-topic metal post and Anthony Braxton info, all in one Date: 24 Aug 2001 00:01:34 -0400 William York scrawled in his own blood: >Six Feet Under? Witchery? Dimmu Borgir? Are you going through and listening >to everything on that giant "Metallinium" (sp) tour roster? That's exactly what I'm doing. >And did you PAY for all this? Only as I was listening to it! (cue rim shot) Yes, I bought all of it with real money - even the really bad stuff - out of morbid curiosity as much as anything else. >Hopefully you at least wound up w/ one of the Soilent Green CDs too... Not yet, but looking forward to it - it's out in a few weeks. Thanks for crossposting the funny review of the Braxton CD. I still haven't figured out just which "composition" is which, but then, I haven't gone back to it since then, either. Sadly, however, I have to admit that its baneful memory gave me pause when I saw the new Braxton sextet disc of Andrew Hill on the shelf today - and left it there, which is unusual for me. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Grieg, Piano Concerto in A minor, Kovacevich, BBC Sym/Davis (Philips) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Millie Gorgon" Subject: Re:Cultural vs. regular Zionism Date: 24 Aug 2001 05:16:13 -0000 >>All of this without a mention of the crimes being done in the name of >Judaism as we speak. >Are you serious? (I don't know if I have permission to breath here), but I don't recall the recent JAZZ IN PARIS cd-reissues make any mention of the imperialistic crimes made on behalf of the French Empire, or any apology in the editions of Bachs Cantates. (Well, why not? Wouldn't it be great? I'm serious, R U Sirius, too?) If the Radical Jewish Culture Series -- (unlike Jazz in Paris it's intended to be MORE than a set of CDs and performances, right? Jazz in Paris does not claim to be Radical, either) -- has nothing to say about politics, about real things happening to real people, then why bother? If we start to/ or continue to confine Politics and Culture/Music to separate spheres, what then? We get equally useless self-referencing post-modernist/ feegood multiculturalist music and the $ "music" of Mtv. The only reason I would expect Zorn and the Radical Jewish Culture Series to have some sort of political position concerning Israel and Palestine is because the question is central to Jews all over the world. In general, if a group that claims to represent me commits crimes, then I would tend to want to decry these crimes. And I do. and so do most people, except when it interferes with their business or with their vision of their pure art. Rarely, though, do the “non-decry-ers” profess to be Radical. That is why Zappa, Chadbourne, (early) Dylan, Negativland, most local hardcore scenes, KRS-One, etc. are, in my opinion, such IMPORTANT figures - they soil(ed) their music with political topics, denying the separation between cultural and political activities. > Is it absurd to speak of "radical" culture? I would say the course Which arts and letters has taken over past hundred years or so shows clearly that "radical" is not a strictly political term. I would not say that it is a strictly political term either, but that it INCLUDES the political, as well as the cultural. Refusing the separation between politics and art is, to me, approaching a definition the word radical. That is how the Situationiste Internationale, for example, were radical and how abstract expressionists were not. >I don't think that expressing ones self in terms of a sort of Jewish culture necessitates taking an overt political stance regarding Israel in one's music. We simply do not know the true feelings of perhaps ANY of the people on these discs regarding current Middle East politics. For all we know, their stances could range from one extreme to the other. Does anybody else see that as a problem?- that Zionism/anti-Zionism isn't even part of the discourse in a Radical Jewish group of artists? In doing research (albeit not super in-depth) for an article on Zorn, the political silence around him seems deafening. Who benefits when Radical Art today scarcely does anything but re-signify within its own field? What would Dada do (WWDD)? I do see your points, Stephen and Robert, about the ethnic exclusivity of the Radical Jewish Culture Series – who better to reinterpret “Jewish” music than those that identify w/ the fringe of the diaspora? However, shouldn’t we expect some sort of political discourse in a Radical group of artists? mg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Cultural vs. regular Zionism Date: 24 Aug 2001 00:19:27 -0500 On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 05:16:13AM -0000, Millie Gorgon wrote: =20 > (Well, why not? Wouldn't it be great? I'm serious, R U Sirius, too?) = If the Radical Jewish Culture Series -- (unlike Jazz in Paris it's inten= ded to be MORE than a set of CDs and performances, right? Jazz in Paris = does not claim to be Radical, either) -- has nothing to say about politi= cs, about real things happening to real people, then why bother? If we s= tart to/ or continue to confine Politics and Culture/Music to separate sp= heres, what then?=20 I don't think it's a matter of either seeing things as a binary split between "Politics" and "Culture/Music" or "confining" them to separate spheres, but more as an issue of what the series has dealt with so far. I suspect that if an artist in the series had a project that directly addressed this political issue, it would come out. But I doubt that there's any sort of cabal that's figured out every detail of what they will address and what the issues are. From what I read, and as is confirmed to some extent by Mandel's recent article, the whole thing is kinda ad-hoc, and seems to consist of little more than an aggregation of projects that touch upon Jewish life in some way. Jewish culture is kind of vast. While the RJC series doesn't directly address the issues that most interest you, there are also a lot of other issues related to Jewish culture, directly or indirectly, that it doesn't yet address.=20 > We get equally useless self-referencing post-modernist/ feegood multicu= lturalist music and the $ "music" of Mtv. The only reason I would expect= Zorn and the Radical Jewish Culture Series to have some sort of politica= l position concerning Israel and Palestine is because the question is cen= tral to Jews all over the world. In general, if a group that claims to r= epresent me commits crimes, then I would tend to want to decry these crim= es. And I do. and so do most people, except when it interferes with the= ir business or with their vision of their pure art. Rarely, though, do t= he =93non-decry-ers=94 profess to be Radical. While the issue is important, is it necessarily "central"? It may appear so to some, but Zorn seems to be dealing more directly with other aspects of Judaism. I also suspect that, like what I suspect is true of a great many of us, Zorn may recognize the issue as complex and have a lot of ambivalence about it. While I protest some of the actions of Israel's leadership and military, I also recognize the very real situations and fears within which they happen. And demonizing either side does nothing to solve the situation. And I have a hunch that you may be inferring more or different meanings from the term "Radical", in terms of political/social viewpoint, than may be intended. Remember that one can be a radical in many different directions and along many different axes. As has been shown repeatedly, someone whose position in the arts is radical might well be extremely normative, or possibly radical in an unexpected direction, when it comes to other issues. Look at, for example, Charles Gayle's music (which at least some call radical) vs. his political views, or the way that many of the 60s leftist radicals were nonetheless quite conservative when it came to gender relations. > That is why Zappa, Chadbourne, (early) Dylan, Negativland, most local h= ardcore scenes, KRS-One, etc. are, in my opinion, such IMPORTANT figures = - they soil(ed) their music with political topics, denying the separation= between cultural and political activities. I'm reminded that, if I recall the story correctly, Jazz producer Orrin Keepnews kept a large sign on his wall saying "Important to whom?" > I would not say that it is a strictly political term either, but that i= t INCLUDES the political, as well as the cultural. Refusing the separati= on between politics and art is, to me, approaching a definition the word = radical. That is how the Situationiste Internationale, for example, were= radical and how abstract expressionists were not. Well, some would consider the abstract expressionists to have been radical. Which again goes to show that you can't assume too much from the use of the word. =20 > Does anybody else see that as a problem?- that Zionism/anti-Zionism isn= 't even part of the discourse in a Radical Jewish group of artists? In d= oing research (albeit not super in-depth) for an article on Zorn, the pol= itical silence around him seems deafening. Who benefits when Radical Art= today scarcely does anything but re-signify within its own field? What = would Dada do (WWDD)? Do you see it as Radical Art's responsibility to "benefit" any given group? Might it be that the artists, while agreeing on many things, do not have a consensus on this issue, or might remain ambivalent? After all, one of my ensembles contains two fish-eating near-vegetarians, one hardcore vegan, and two carnivores, so we tend not to make statements as part of our music on food issues, though we feel and speak strongly as a group on other matters. > I do see your points, Stephen and Robert, about the ethnic exclusivity = of the Radical Jewish Culture Series =96 who better to reinterpret =93Jew= ish=94 music than those that identify w/ the fringe of the diaspora? How= ever, shouldn=92t we expect some sort of political discourse in a Radical= group of artists? No, I don't think so. --=20 |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Cultural vs. regular Zionism Date: 25 Aug 2001 00:04:13 -0700 > I'm reminded that, if I recall the story correctly, Jazz producer > Orrin Keepnews kept a large sign on his wall saying "Important to > whom?" Damn, he was smart. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Millie Gorgon" Subject: Re: Cultural vs. regular Zionism II Date: 24 Aug 2001 11:09:38 -0000 >far. I suspect that if an artist in the series had a project that >directly addressed this political issue, it would come out. But I >doubt that there's any sort of cabal that's figured out every detail >of what they will address and what the issues are. From what I read, that's my point -- the artists don't address anything but each others' work, Zorn doesn't, the kinds of artists chosen by Zorn to record don't. >Jewish culture is kind of vast. While the RJC series doesn't directly >address the issues that most interest you, there are also a lot of >other issues related to Jewish culture, directly or indirectly, that >it doesn't yet address. issues that are top headlines worldwide every single day are not simply issues that "interest me." a lot of lame artists are often worry about muddling their ideal artistic product in the debris that is real life - politics, means of production (of their product), the human body itself even (e.g. Jarrett the human cough suppressant). is this Zorn's concern? >ambivalence about it. While I protest some of the actions of Israel's >leadership and military, I also recognize the very real situations and >fears within which they happen. And demonizing either side does >nothing to solve the situation. maybe we shouldn't get into this, but at least let me digress for 2 short sentences: 1.read yer Chomsky! and 2.the UN (minus the US and Israel) is "demonizing" Israel also. >Do you see it as Radical Art's responsibility to "benefit" any given >group? Might it be that the artists, while agreeing on many things, do >not have a consensus on this issue, or might remain ambivalent? After if they don't have a consensus on the issue, then we ought to hear some sort of discussion amongst them (on disc, or off). if they remain ambivalent they should form an opinion! >>than those that identify w/ the fringe of the diaspora? However, shouldn’t we expect some sort of political discourse in a Radical group of artists? > >No, I don't think so. now we've gotten somewhere. we can continue the argument, but it seems to have wandered a ways from the original question, and from appropriate zorn-list content. our argument now is "what is the role of art in society." i understand your view, but i disagree. i do expect political discourse in a group of Radical anythings, and frankly, Zorn and the RJCS falls short of radicalism in any meaningful sense. yes, the SOUND is radical, but it's fartin' in the wind as my grandfather would say. Zorn is a musical giant to me, but narrows his scope too much, becoming a midget on the z-axis. mg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeroen de Boer Subject: Mike Patton & DEP Date: 24 Aug 2001 14:34:00 +0200 From a pressrelease: Mike Patton, vocalist for Faith No More/Mr. Bungle/Fantomas will be handling the vocals on the next Dillinger Escape Plan EP, which will be out sometime before 2002. Jeroen Jeroen de Boer content director Cyberslag Content Providing Damsterdiep 15 9711SG Groningen The Netherlands t +31(0)503115496 m +31 (0)624814506 f +31(0)503119447 jeroen@cyberslag.nl www.cyberslag.nl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CuneiWay@aol.com Subject: hot thumbs o'riley Date: 24 Aug 2001 08:55:51 EDT It's actually a Jim Pembroke (voice & leader [?]) of Wigwam, one of Finland's best known progressive rock acts) solo album. Jim has about 5-6 other albums from the 70's/early 80's, & Wigwam themselves have an additional 8-9 albums. Steve F. > I've just got CD entitled Hot Thumbs O'Riley - Wicked Ivory. >Line-up is mainly Skandinavian /with Pekka Pohjola on bass/ >Music is crazy mix of blues, comedy and psychedelia a la early Frank >Zappa. >Could someone give me more info about this group /?/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CuneiWay@aol.com Subject: harry partch Date: 24 Aug 2001 08:58:02 EDT Matt Mitchell wrote: >Isn't it time for Harry >>Partch to be recognised as one of the great American composers? Well, in some parts of Silver Spring, MD, he certainly is! Steve F. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= Subject: RE: Mike Patton & DEP Date: 24 Aug 2001 14:56:53 +0200 > From a pressrelease: > > Mike Patton, vocalist for Faith No More/Mr. Bungle/Fantomas will be handling > the vocals on the next Dillinger Escape Plan EP sorry but, what's dillinger escape plan? thanks, efrén n.p: Kramer "Let me explain something to you about art" (Tzadik- one of those releases i would never recommend to anyone) > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > Jeroen de Boer > content director Cyberslag Content Providing > Damsterdiep 15 9711SG Groningen The Netherlands > > t +31(0)503115496 > m +31 (0)624814506 > f +31(0)503119447 > jeroen@cyberslag.nl > > www.cyberslag.nl > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > > > - _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeroen de Boer Subject: Re: Mike Patton & DEP Date: 24 Aug 2001 15:11:37 +0200 Hi Efr=E9n, Dillinger Escape Plan is an hardcore-ensemble from (I think) Philadelphia. It's one of those bands whose music is really hard to describe. They basically have a metalsound, but their music is a combination of all kinds of genres, put together in a kind of Waked City way. They don't sound like Naked City all however. I saw them perform live a couple of months ago, and although I knew they ha= d quite a reputation they totally blew me away. Just check them out, because they deserve to be heard. Here's a review of their debut-album Calculating Infinity (from the allmusicguide): AMG EXPERT REVIEW: Apparently, Dillinger has solved the complex equation asked of their album title and the answer is strange and complex. Oddly enough, Relapse is marketing this as "math metal," a term that almost fits. Having enjoyed Dillinger's bombastic, grindy punk debut mini-album, Calculating Infinity seems ten times more explosive and brilliant, as it spews forth anger and venomous misery in a way that is comparable only to spontaneous combustion. Continuing to expand upon the ultra-aggressive, deliciously technical approach they adopt toward grind and hardcore, the band has fully embraced its amazing knack for rhythmic melody on tracks lik= e "*#" and "Weekend Sex Change." Fear not Dillinger fans, for there is enough uncontrolled hatred and violence on this release to satisfy five bands, let alone New Jersey's native sons. This album is both screechingly abrasive, a= s evident on "Clip the Apex... Accept Institution," and morbidly beautiful, with the Slint-ish acoustic passages of "The Running Board." "Destro's Secret" contains such an amazing progressive dance between guitar and bass that one could only compare it to the mighty Cynic. The drumming rates near the top of any extreme metal drumming, combining an offbeat jazz style with an aggressive Cryptopsy-like technical approach. The vocals are raw, disturbing, and creepy causing a strange chill to crawl up the spine. Who will appreciate Dillinger then? The eclectics and musicians who understand the complexity of the band and genius chaotically held within. =8B Jason Hundey Jeroen >> From a pressrelease: >>=20 >> Mike Patton, vocalist for Faith No More/Mr. Bungle/Fantomas will be > handling >> the vocals on the next Dillinger Escape Plan EP >=20 >=20 > sorry but, what's dillinger escape plan? >=20 > thanks, >=20 > efr=E9n >=20 > n.p: Kramer "Let me explain something to you about art" (Tzadik- one of > those releases i would never recommend to anyone) =20 Jeroen de Boer content director Cyberslag Content Providing Damsterdiep 15 9711SG Groningen The Netherlands t +31(0)503115496 m +31 (0)624814506 f +31(0)503119447 jeroen@cyberslag.nl www.cyberslag.nl - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Beardsley" Subject: Re: harry partch Date: 24 Aug 2001 09:22:22 -0400 He would be 100 this summer. * David Beardsley * http://biink.com * http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 8:58 AM > Matt Mitchell wrote: > > >Isn't it time for Harry > >>Partch to be recognised as one of the great American composers? > > Well, in some parts of Silver Spring, MD, he certainly is! > > Steve F. > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Bill Dixon (Re: groundbreaking: the inverse) Date: 24 Aug 2001 10:27:56 -0400 (EDT) As for the Dixon Ork in 2000: I'm not to sure you'd want the session on disc. I was there and vastly disappointed. He had a large orchestra made up of a clutch of interesting people, but didn't seem to utilize their talents at all. To be simplistic, it was minimalistic music, but so fragmented that it could as easily been played by a much smaller group. If I remember correctly only Karen Borca's bassoon made any impression. But that's because she was one of the few players who got any room -- or in fact made any sound at all. All in all a missed opportunity. The Little Huey Ork with tenor saxophonist Kidd Jordan as soloist showed what could be done with a large group a few days later. Ken Waxman --- JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > << Is Dixon working at all with larger-scale > ensembles? >> > > he led an orchestra in the Vision Festival recently, > maybe in 2000. > > <> > > no idea, but he's notoriously tough to deal with, > one reason that his discography is so small. _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Cultural vs. regular Zionism Date: 24 Aug 2001 10:44:28 -0400 (EDT) As far as I know OK *is* smart Ken Waxman --- Skip Heller wrote: > > > I'm reminded that, if I recall the story > correctly, Jazz producer > > Orrin Keepnews kept a large sign on his wall > saying "Important to > > whom?" > > Damn, he was smart. > > skip h _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: new Laurie Anderson Date: 24 Aug 2001 09:15:19 -0700 For those who don't know it yet, a good portion of the NW Downtown Scene is featured on the new Laurie Anderson records: *** - LIFE ON A STRING: Laurie Anderson Recorded at The Lobby, New York City Produced by Hal Willner and Laurie Anderson Laurie Anderson: vocals, keyboards, violin, gongs, percussion; Tom Nelis (1): vocals; John Kelly (1): background vocals; Joey Baron (1,5,8,9): per- cussion, drums; Chris Speed (2): tenor; Cuong Vu (2): trumpet; Skuli Sverrisson (2-6,8-12): bass, little organ, high bass, sounds, keyboards; David Torn (2): open loop; Greg Cohen (2): bass; Danny Frankel (2,11): per- cussion, hand claps, 'box-o-toys'; Mino Cinelu (2): percussion; Eyvind Kang (3): violin; Erik Friedlander (3-5,10,11): cello; Mitchell Froom (3,8,11): keyboards, Claviola, Mellotron, Wurlitzer; Liheng (5): baritone banhu; Peter Scherer (5,8,12): keyboards, percussion; Jamshied Sharifi (5): additional keyboards, strings; Hal Willner (6,7): turntables, samples; Van Dyke Parks (7): string arrangements, conductor, keyboards; Ann Leathers (7): violin; Carol Webb (7): violin; Jan Mullen (7): violin; Jonathan Dinklage (7): vio- lin; Ricky Sortomme (7): violin; Joel Pitchon (7): violin; Ellen Payne (7): violin; Barry Finclair (7): violin; Enrico DiCecco (7): violin; Heidi Modr (7): violin; Jean Ingram (7): violin; Sue Pray (7): viola; Karen Dreyfus (7): viola; Vincent Lionti (7): viola; Judith Wilmer (7): viola; Fredrick Zlotkin (7): cello; Jeanne LeBlanc (7): cello; Timothy Cobb (7): bass; Bill Frisell (9): guitar; Ben Rubin (9): bells; Mocean Worker (11): beats, key- boards; Lou Reed (11): guitar; Martin Brumbach (11): percussion arrangement; Vinicius Cantuaria (12): percussion. 2001 - Nonesuch (USA), 79539-2 (CD) Not listened to it yet. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Hespos (was: mainstream jazz piano) Date: 24 Aug 2001 09:40:53 -0700 (PDT) > And exactly what is the 'contemporary classical' > thang? Does it include, > for example, someone like Hespos who composes music > that often sounds like > 'free jazz'? This sounds interesting; who is this person? Can you recommend anything by them? I tried a web search but came up with nothing the first time around. ----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jerzy Matysiakiewicz Subject: Re: hot thumbs o'riley Date: 24 Aug 2001 18:43:35 +0200 CuneiWay@aol.com wrote: > > It's actually a Jim Pembroke (voice & leader [?]) of Wigwam, one of Finland's > best known progressive rock acts) solo album. > > Jim has about 5-6 other albums from the 70's/early 80's, & Wigwam themselves > have an additional 8-9 albums. Thanks a lot jm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= Subject: frith again Date: 24 Aug 2001 18:53:21 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C12CCE.0C294180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi, although many of you posted good recommendations of Fred Frith's work, I = lost all the info in my computer a couple of months ago. Can anyone drop a line on Frith's "The top of his head" and "Technology = of Tears"?. Thanks in advance (again) Best regards, Efr=E9n n.p: Ennio Morricone: "More Mondo Morricone" (Colosseum). A while ago, = someone asked for Morricone's recommendations. The collection "Mondo = Morricone", consisting of two volumes (that I know) is a great = compilation of his pop/easy listening songs. These are scores for = italian cult movies and is really amazing. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C12CCE.0C294180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
hi,
 
although many of you posted good recommendations of = Fred=20 Frith's work, I lost all the info in my computer a couple of months=20 ago.
 
Can anyone drop a line on Frith's "The top of his = head" and=20 "Technology of Tears"?.
 
Thanks in advance (again)
 
Best regards,
 
Efr=E9n
n.p: Ennio Morricone: "More Mondo Morricone" = (Colosseum). A=20 while ago, someone asked for Morricone's recommendations. The collection = "Mondo=20 Morricone", consisting of two volumes (that I know) is a great = compilation of=20 his pop/easy listening songs. These are scores for italian cult movies = and is=20 really amazing.
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C12CCE.0C294180-- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: harry partch Date: 24 Aug 2001 17:46:05 +0000 >From: "David Beardsley" > >He would be 100 this summer. > Perhaps Wynton (the 'jazz Gary Coleman') Marsalis and Stanley (negroid american music doyen) Crouch are hard at work organising a Lincoln Center retrospective to celebrate this... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: Hespos (was: mainstream jazz piano) Date: 24 Aug 2001 17:54:52 +0000 >From: Scott Handley >This sounds interesting; who is this person? Can you >recommend anything by them? I tried a web search but >came up with nothing the first time around. > Hans-Joachim Hespos, a German composer, with 2 CDs on the CPO label (a subsidiary of Naxos), I'd recommend the one entitled 'Works' , performed by Ensemble 13. Sorry I can't offer more info, I'm in the process of moving, my CDs are all in storage right now... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: harry partch Date: 25 Aug 2001 11:43:41 -0700 There has been a great deal of attention paid Partch these last few years. The Blackburn book got a great deal of press, and, earlier this year, UCLA had a full-on Partch exhibit of the instruments, a lecture thing, and a performance of some of the more known stuff. Expecting the mainstream attention paid to, say, Mahler is asking a little much. Partch's stuff is too hard to get performed (cartage and insurance on the instruments alone is extremely expensive, and it's not like you can call SIR and get a crumelodian sent over, plus there's not an unlimited pool of people who play these instruments well enough to mount a whole lot of performances), and it's not like a whole slew of post-HP works have been written for those players and those instruments. In order for a composer to get launched, especially if he's not around to publicize himself, it needs to be practical to perform his works (just like rock'n'roll bands have to tour to get exposure). Partch's vision painted him into a corner on that level. On the plus side, his legacy is extremely strong and well-documented, enough that, even though there is not likely to be a whole New Partch Era, he's definitely got a respectable and formidable place in history. Given the difficulties of presenting his work, I'd say that's the most we can hope for. On the other hand, if Wynton were to take up the cause, the unbelievable could and likely would happen -- a Partch performance at Lincoln Center. But I have the feeling that -- before anyone played a note -- the self-appointed Partch police would condemn the performance. skip h np: Ives Plays Ives - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kevin Molony Subject: cds for sale Date: 24 Aug 2001 19:45:18 +0100 This is a barefaced marketing ploy to relieve some of my groaning shelves. Please reply off list if interested. =20 Prices are =A35 or $8.00 inclusive of shipping MARK HELIAS(w.LOPATA,MOORE,ROBERTSON,RAINEY)ATTACK THE FUTURE ENJA MARY McAULIFFE ARK SEXTET S/T KOCH HERB ROBERTSON/DUVAL/ROSEN FALLING IN FLAT SPACE CJR ED JACKSON WAKE UP CALL NEW WORLD BERN NIX TRIO w.FRED HOPKINS ALARMS AND EXCURSIONS NEW WORLD GREAT CIRCLE SAXOPHONE QUARTET CHILD KING DICTATOR FOOL NEW WORLD BILLY TIPTON SAX QUARTET BOX NEW WORLD TOM VARNER LONG NIGHT BIG DAY NEW WORLD LEE HYLA WE SPEAK ETRUSCAN NEW WORLD GEORGE LEWIS CHANGING WITH THE TIMES NEW WORLD FAR EAST SIDE BAND CAVERNS NEW WORLD GERRY HEMMINGWAY QUINTET THE MARMALADE KING HAT ART SUSIE IBARRA ASSIF TSAHAR HOME COOKIN' HOPSCOTCH JIM STALEY BLIND PURSUITS EINSTEIN MYRA MELFORD'S CRUSH(W.TAKEISHI/WOLLESEN) DANCE BEYOND THE COLOR ARABESQUE THOMAS CHAPIN/ASLAN/IVERSON AVANTANGO EPSA DORGON/WILLIAM PARKER BROKEN CIRCLE JUMBO NED ROTHENBERG SYNC INTUITION BOB NEILL WHY I LIKE COFFEE NEW WORLD JAMES EMERY SEPTET (EHRLICH/SPEED/FELDMAN/HEMMINGWAY/NORTON/FORMANEK) SPECTRAL DOMAINS ENJA MARIO PAVONE SONG FOR SEPTET NEW WORL= D MARIO PAVONE TOULON DAYS NEW WORL= D JEROME HARRIS HIDDEN IN PLAIN VIEW NEW WORL= D MARTY EHRLICH'S DARK WOOD ENSEMBLE JUST BEFORE THE DAWN NEW WORL= D DAVID TAYLOR PAST TELLS NEW WORL= D EHRLICH/ERSKINE/FORMANEK RELATIVITY ENJA EHRLICH DARK WOODS ENSEMBLE 2CD LIVE WOOD MUSIC&ARTS **=A37/$1= 0 JULIUS HEMPHILL SEXTET AT DR.KING'S TABLE NEW WORL= D MARTY EHRLICH CAN YOU HEAR A MOTION ENJA MARTY EHRLICH THE TRAVELLER'S TALE ENJA MARTY EHRLICH SIDE BY SIDE ENJA MARTY EHRLICH DARK WOODS ENSEMBLE(W.MUHAL ABRAMS) EMERGENCY PEACE NEW WORL= D - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: cds for sale Date: 24 Aug 2001 12:01:25 -0700 You might not be aware of that, but Cuneiform/Wayside has been selling most of these New World records for... $3.50 (yes, brand new, not second hand). Patrice. On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:45:18 +0100 Kevin Molony wrote: > > This is a barefaced marketing ploy to relieve some of my groaning shelves. > Please reply off list if interested. > > Prices are £5 or $8.00 inclusive of shipping > > MARK HELIAS(w.LOPATA,MOORE,ROBERTSON,RAINEY)ATTACK THE FUTURE ENJA > MARY McAULIFFE ARK SEXTET S/T KOCH > HERB ROBERTSON/DUVAL/ROSEN FALLING IN FLAT SPACE CJR > ED JACKSON WAKE UP CALL NEW WORLD > BERN NIX TRIO w.FRED HOPKINS ALARMS AND EXCURSIONS NEW WORLD > GREAT CIRCLE SAXOPHONE QUARTET CHILD KING DICTATOR FOOL NEW WORLD > BILLY TIPTON SAX QUARTET BOX NEW WORLD > TOM VARNER LONG NIGHT BIG DAY NEW WORLD > LEE HYLA WE SPEAK ETRUSCAN NEW WORLD > GEORGE LEWIS CHANGING WITH THE TIMES NEW WORLD > FAR EAST SIDE BAND CAVERNS NEW WORLD > GERRY HEMMINGWAY QUINTET THE MARMALADE KING HAT ART > SUSIE IBARRA ASSIF TSAHAR HOME COOKIN' HOPSCOTCH > JIM STALEY BLIND PURSUITS EINSTEIN > MYRA MELFORD'S CRUSH(W.TAKEISHI/WOLLESEN) DANCE BEYOND THE COLOR ARABESQUE > THOMAS CHAPIN/ASLAN/IVERSON AVANTANGO EPSA > DORGON/WILLIAM PARKER BROKEN CIRCLE JUMBO > NED ROTHENBERG SYNC INTUITION > BOB NEILL WHY I LIKE COFFEE NEW WORLD > JAMES EMERY SEPTET > (EHRLICH/SPEED/FELDMAN/HEMMINGWAY/NORTON/FORMANEK) SPECTRAL DOMAINS ENJA > MARIO PAVONE SONG FOR SEPTET NEW WORLD > MARIO PAVONE TOULON DAYS NEW WORLD > JEROME HARRIS HIDDEN IN PLAIN VIEW NEW WORLD > MARTY EHRLICH'S DARK WOOD ENSEMBLE JUST BEFORE THE DAWN NEW WORLD > DAVID TAYLOR PAST TELLS NEW WORLD > EHRLICH/ERSKINE/FORMANEK RELATIVITY ENJA > EHRLICH DARK WOODS ENSEMBLE 2CD LIVE WOOD MUSIC&ARTS **£7/$10 > JULIUS HEMPHILL SEXTET AT DR.KING'S TABLE NEW WORLD > MARTY EHRLICH CAN YOU HEAR A MOTION ENJA > MARTY EHRLICH THE TRAVELLER'S TALE ENJA > MARTY EHRLICH SIDE BY SIDE ENJA > MARTY EHRLICH DARK WOODS ENSEMBLE(W.MUHAL ABRAMS) EMERGENCY PEACE NEW WORLD > > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: cueniform/wayside Date: 25 Aug 2001 12:06:41 -0700 Who's their distributor? skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: cueniform/wayside Date: 24 Aug 2001 12:06:05 -0700 On Sat, 25 Aug 2001 12:06:41 -0700 Skip Heller wrote: > > Who's their distributor? I guess I could let Steve answering... Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: cds for sale Date: 24 Aug 2001 12:53:15 -0700 (PDT) --- "Patrice L. Roussel" wrote: > > You might not be aware of that, but > Cuneiform/Wayside has been selling most of > these New World records for... $3.50 (yes, brand > new, not second hand). I tried to find these listed on their website, but had some trouble. Is there any easy way to view all the Black Saint/Soul Note stuff together? Do they even mark the BS/SN items with their label name? ------s NP: XHOL, MOTHERFUCKERS LIVE (United Durtro) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew Mitchell" Subject: Re: Bill Dixon (Re: groundbreaking: the inverse) Date: 24 Aug 2001 16:42:16 -0400 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII A trumpeter friend of mine who likes Bill Dixon a lot and was looking forward to one of their concerts HATED the concert. Maybe that's a strong word, but he was vastly disappointed. -mm ----- Original Message ----- Sent: 8/24/01 10:27:56 AM groundbreaking: the inverse) As for the Dixon Ork in 2000: I'm not to sure you'd want the session on disc. I was there and vastly disappointed. He had a large orchestra made up of a clutch of interesting people, but didn't seem to utilize their talents at all. To be simplistic, it was minimalistic music, but so fragmented that it could as easily been played by a much smaller group. If I remember correctly only Karen Borca's bassoon made any impression. But that's because she was one of the few players who got any room -- or in fact made any sound at all. All in all a missed opportunity. The Little Huey Ork with tenor saxophonist Kidd Jordan as soloist showed what could be done with a large group a few days later. Ken Waxman --- JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: Is Dixon working at all with larger-scale ensembles? he led an orchestra in the Vision Festival recently, maybe in 2000. no idea, but he's notoriously tough to deal with, one reason that his discography is so small. _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - --- Matthew Mitchell --- matmi@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
A trumpeter friend of mine who likes Bill Dixon a lot and was looking forward to one of their concerts HATED the concert.  Maybe that's a strong word, but he was vastly disappointed. -mm
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Waxman
Sent: 8/24/01 10:27:56 AM
Subject: Re: Bill Dixon (Re: groundbreaking: the inverse)

As for the Dixon Ork in 2000:
 
I'm not to sure you'd want the session on disc. I was
there and vastly disappointed. He had a large
orchestra made up of a clutch of interesting people,
but didn't seem to utilize their talents at all. To be
simplistic, it was minimalistic music, but so
fragmented that it could as easily been played by a
much smaller group. If I remember correctly only Karen
Borca's bassoon made any impression. But that's
because she was one of the few players who got any
room -- or in fact made any sound at all.
 
All in all a missed opportunity.
 
The Little Huey Ork with tenor saxophonist Kidd Jordan
as soloist showed what could be done with a large
group a few days later.
 
Ken Waxman
 
 
> << Is Dixon working at all with larger-scale
> ensembles? >>
>
> he led an orchestra in the Vision Festival recently,
> maybe in 2000.
>
> <>
>
> no idea, but he's notoriously tough to deal with,
> one reason that his discography is so small.
 
 
 
_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca
 
-
 

 
--- Matthew Mitchell
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CuneiWay@aol.com Subject: cuneiform/wayside Date: 24 Aug 2001 16:44:01 EDT I am very, very aware that it is difficult to find stuff on our site. That's why we've been working towards having our genuine, search-engine'd, secure, shopping basket'd, e-com site up & running. Getting in the last hurdle now. I think/hope it'll be up in September. Thanks! Steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Cultural vs. regular Zionism II Date: 24 Aug 2001 14:56:05 -0500 On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 11:09:38AM -0000, Millie Gorgon wrote: > >far. I suspect that if an artist in the series had a project that > >directly addressed this political issue, it would come out. But I > >doubt that there's any sort of cabal that's figured out every detail > >of what they will address and what the issues are. From what I read, >=20 > that's my point -- the artists don't address anything but each others' = work, Zorn doesn't, the kinds of artists chosen by Zorn to record don'tt. So? > issues that are top headlines worldwide every single day are not simply= issues that "interest me." a lot of lame artists are often worry about = muddling their ideal artistic product in the debris that is real life - p= olitics, means of production (of their product), the human body itself ev= en (e.g. Jarrett the human cough suppressant). is this Zorn's concern? I suspect that you're reading a whole lot into Zorn's work that just isn't there.=20 =20 > maybe we shouldn't get into this, but at least let me digress for 2 sho= rt sentences: 1.read yer Chomsky! and 2.the UN (minus the US and Israel)= is "demonizing" Israel also. I've read my Chomsky. (Yawn. Next.) And yeah, the UN makes a lot of resolutions about a lot of stuff with little effect. =20 > if they don't have a consensus on the issue, then we ought to hear some= sort of discussion amongst them (on disc, or off). if they remain ambiv= alent they should form an opinion! Why on earth should they have to let us in on what discussions might be going on among them privately?! Do you have some odd idea that just because people put music on CDs they are forced to bare their thoughts on everything to the entire world and to have and publish opinions on every topic? > >>than those that identify w/ the fringe of the diaspora? However, sho= uldn=92t we expect some sort of political discourse in a Radical group of= artists? > > > >No, I don't think so. >=20 > now we've gotten somewhere. we can continue the argument, but it seems= to have wandered a ways from the original question, and from appropriate= zorn-list content. our argument now is "what is the role of art in soci= ety." i understand your view, but i disagree. i do expect political dis= course in a group of Radical anythings, and frankly, Zorn and the RJCS fa= lls short of radicalism in any meaningful sense. yes, the SOUND is radic= al, but it's fartin' in the wind as my grandfather would say. Zorn is a = musical giant to me, but narrows his scope too much, becoming a midget on= the z-axis. I agree that it can be good if artists use their work toward social goals. It is unconscionable to belittle their work ("fartin' in the wind" ?!)=20 because they choose not to engage a particular topic in a particular project. I see that you have not addressed environmental pollution or gay rights=20 in any of your posts to this list. Thus does the pot call the kettle black. --=20 |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Zorn, Laswell, Frith, and Lombardo Date: 23 Aug 2001 16:29:53 -0500 I found a live recording of a group consisting of Zorn, Laswell, Frith, and Lombardo. Did this group ever do any formal recordings? Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Lankin" Subject: Re: that's the way i feel now [was: the new yorker] Date: 24 Aug 2001 15:38:26 -0400 A CD of "That's the Way I Feel Now" was mentioned a while back by Verve as scheduled for this year, but seems to have fallen off their release schedule. Again. Hold on to your vinyl copy... Alan Lankin lankina@att.net http://jazzmatazz.home.att.net ----- Original Message ----- Sent: August 22, 2001 1:43 PM > > BTW, there were rumors about releasing finally the complete 2xLP of THAT'S THE > WAY I FEEL NOW on CD (and not the toddler friendly version that came out a > decade ago -- without Zorn, of course...). Paul Audino was expecting it by the > end of 2000. Any updates? > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Re: that's the way i feel now [was: the new yorker] Date: 24 Aug 2001 20:10:44 EDT --part1_8e.19e216fa.28b84704_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/24/01 5:52:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lankina@att.net writes: > A CD of "That's the Way I Feel Now" was mentioned a while back by Verve as > scheduled for this year, but seems to have fallen off their release > schedule. Again. Hold on to your vinyl copy... > > Alan Lankin > True. I just inquired about this recently in a shop and evidently it never even got as far as a release date. I'm glad I was lucky enough to find the old A&M (slightly abridged) single CD version though! Dale. --part1_8e.19e216fa.28b84704_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/24/01 5:52:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lankina@att.net
writes:


A CD of "That's the Way I Feel Now" was mentioned a while back by Verve as
scheduled for this year, but seems to have fallen off their release
schedule.  Again.  Hold on to your vinyl copy...

Alan Lankin

True. I just inquired about this recently in a shop and evidently it never
even got as far as a release date. I'm glad I was lucky enough to find the
old A&M (slightly abridged) single CD version though!

Dale.
--part1_8e.19e216fa.28b84704_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Millie Gorgon" Subject: Re: Cultural vs. regular Zionism II Date: 25 Aug 2001 01:30:09 -0000 >I've read my Chomsky. (Yawn. Next.) And yeah, the UN makes a lot of >resolutions about a lot of stuff with little effect. Yawn - hundreds of thousands of people are driven from their homes. Yawn - water rights stolen from an entire people. Yawn - unequivocal international (except US) condemnation of all of this. http://www.zmag.org/meastwatch/israeleth1.htm >Why on earth should they have to let us in on what discussions might >be going on among them privately?! Do you have some odd idea that just >because people put music on CDs they are forced to bare their thoughts >on everything to the entire world and to have and publish opinions on >every topic? .... >It is unconscionable to belittle their work ("fartin' in the wind" ?!) >because they choose not to engage a particular topic in a particular >project. >I see that you have not addressed environmental pollution or gay rights >in any of your posts to this list. Thus does the pot call the kettle >black. i propose that it is unconscionable to not care, while at the same time contributing to a group of Radical Jewish artists. i haven't addressed environmental pollution because i have not titled my posts as originating from the Radical Anti-Pollution Zorn Fan, or the Militant Queer Zornlist Member. see the difference? radical . . . jewish . . . culture mg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Cultural vs. regular Zionism II Date: 24 Aug 2001 20:09:52 -0500 On Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 01:30:09AM -0000, Millie Gorgon wrote: > >I've read my Chomsky. (Yawn. Next.) And yeah, the UN makes a lot of > >resolutions about a lot of stuff with little effect. > Yawn - hundreds of thousands of people are driven from their homes. Yawn - water rights stolen from an entire people. Yawn - unequivocal international (except US) condemnation of all of this. > http://www.zmag.org/meastwatch/israeleth1.htm Yawn - utterly misreading my post. Perhaps the issues are important, but Chomsky's rhetoric, which I've tried to muddle through since high school, is the opposite of effective or convincing. > i propose that it is unconscionable to not care, while at the same time contributing to a group of Radical Jewish artists. Not having an opinion is not the same as not caring. In fact, if I *didn't* care, it would be easier to formulate a suave opinion. But when I take into account what I know and care about both the poets in Beit Jala with whom I am in touch and my nieces in Herzliya, making an opinion is much harder. How about if you actually go over there, live a while, get to know people on both sides there, and then attempt to form an easy opinion. I suspect that your moccasins have not yet logged that mile. > i haven't addressed environmental pollution because i have not titled my posts as originating from the Radical Anti-Pollution Zorn Fan, or the Militant Queer Zornlist Member. see the difference? radical . . . jewish . . . culture And you still seem to be confusing culture and politics as synonymous, and having, apparently, a woefully limited view of the extent of culture. Someone engaging with culture *can* choose to engage with its politics. Or not. Just as someone engaging with culture can choose to engage with its cuisine. And you seem to continue to insist on artists having bizarre responsibilities because they happen to make music -- a belief that most, if not all, of the many artists that I know and work with would find laughable, if not utterly offensive. I may *choose* to make some political or cultural beliefs known in the course of making art. But to assume that that's an intrinsic part of being an artist is quite simply to evince a lack of understanding of what an artist is and does. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Was Re: cds for sale Now: XHOL Date: 25 Aug 2001 03:08:17 +0000 >From: Scott Handley > >NP: XHOL, MOTHERFUCKERS LIVE (United Durtro) How is this? There's sure a lot of different opinions flying around about it... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Was Re: cds for sale Now: XHOL Date: 24 Aug 2001 23:14:10 EDT In a message dated 8/24/01 11:09:12 PM, chatterton23@hotmail.com writes: << NP: XHOL, MOTHERFUCKERS LIVE (United Durtro) How is this? There's sure a lot of different opinions flying around about it... >> I was pretty underwhelmed, but Xhol were never one of my favorite Krautrock bands. I'd say if you have and love Motherfuckers GMBH & Co KG, Electrip, and hau-Ruck, then give it a shot, otherwise save your money. on the other hand, the previous United Dairies Krautrock release, Sand-Ultrasonic Seraphim, makes my short list of essential Krautrock records. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Millie Gorgon" Subject: Re: Cultural vs. regular Zionism II.I Date: 25 Aug 2001 03:26:06 -0000 >> >I've read my Chomsky. (Yawn. Next.) And yeah, the UN makes a lot of >> >resolutions about a lot of stuff with little effect. >> Yawn - hundreds of thousands of people are driven from their homes. Yawn - water rights stolen from an entire people. Yawn - unequivocal international (except US) condemnation of all of this. >> http://www.zmag.org/meastwatch/israeleth1.htm >Yawn - utterly misreading my post. Perhaps the issues are important, >but Chomsky's rhetoric, which I've tried to muddle through since high >school, is the opposite of effective or convincing. yeah, you're right, i did misread. itchy typing finger; i fail to see your point about the UN, though. >> i propose that it is unconscionable to not care, while at the same time contributing to a group of Radical Jewish artists. >Not having an opinion is not the same as not caring. In fact, if I >*didn't* care, it would be easier to formulate a suave opinion. But >when I take into account what I know and care about both the poets in >Beit Jala with whom I am in touch and my nieces in Herzliya, making an >opinion is much harder. this is interesting and is exactly the type of sentiment that might fit well into a political discussion about the Mideast. unfortunately, not even the ambivalence is expressed much of anywhere in the RJC. and it doesn't change the fact that their is no indication of the current Mideast even existing in Zorn's music or the RJC Series (counterexamples?). >How about if you actually go over there, live a while, get to know >people on both sides there, and then attempt to form an easy >opinion. I suspect that your moccasins have not yet logged that mile. you pegged me right - i'm young. i'm guilty. i've never been to Hebron. however, i don't wear moccasins. you might be interested to know that young hippy activist types never like me. why are we talking about me? >> i haven't addressed environmental pollution because i have not titled my posts as originating from the Radical Anti-Pollution Zorn Fan, or the Militant Queer Zornlist Member. see the difference? radical . . . jewish . . . culture > >And you still seem to be confusing culture and politics as synonymous, >and having, apparently, a woefully limited view of the extent of culture. >Someone engaging with culture *can* choose to engage with its politics. >Or not. Just as someone engaging with culture can choose to engage >with its cuisine. i'm not confusing them - i'm just saying it's better when artists don't make such a clear distinction between art/culture and politics. and that's what we should demand from artists who are central to Radical movements in art before we howl in favor of them. it's funny you mention food- Alvin Curran at least mentions Matzoh in the liner notes to Animal Behavior. but not a squeak about colonization. >And you seem to continue to insist on artists having bizarre >responsibilities because they happen to make music -- a belief that >most, if not all, of the many artists that I know and work with would >find laughable, if not utterly offensive. I may *choose* to make some >political or cultural beliefs known in the course of making art. But >to assume that that's an intrinsic part of being an artist is quite >simply to evince a lack of understanding of what an artist is and >does. could be that the current role of art and behavior of artists is impoverished and useless? and as incredible and beautiful as Zorn's music is, that, in the end, it is nothing but a a series of statements limited within a self-circumscribed community of artists that professes to be, somehow, radical. contrast with rural american folk and blues - there was always subject matter about power and current events; this was how music existed long before the commodified, self-referencing form we consume now. this will probably be my last response; i think we're both beating our respective dead horses. (with clarinets) respectfully, mg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: fwd: Langley Schools Music Project Date: 24 Aug 2001 23:42:20 -0400 This has been my favorite album of the year so far. Lang >For Immediate Release August 22, 2001 > >THE LANGLEY SCHOOLS MUSIC PROJECT: >"Innocence and Despair" (Bar None Records) Release Date: October 9, 2001 > >"This is beauty. This is truth. This is music that touches the heart in a way no other music ever has, or ever could." - John Zorn > >On October 9, Bar None Records will release =93Innocence and Despair=94, a 19-track collection of recordings by The Langley Schools Music Project. Originally recorded in 1976-77, =91Innocence and Despair=92 documents a cho= rus of 60 rural Canadian school children, aged 9-12, recorded in 1976-77. Untrained but captivated by melodic magic, the students sing one-of-a-kind renditions of tunes by the Beach Boys, Paul McCartney, David Bowie, Fleetwood Mac, the Bay City Rollers, and others. They accompany themselves with the shimmering gamelan-like chimes of Orff instructional instruments, and elemental rock trimmings arranged by their itinerant, rock n=92 roll-obsessed music teacher, Hans Fenger. A native of Holland, Fenger was,a music-loving free spirit who sought to reach beyond instruction, and instill a true passion in his students for their subject. He still teaches music to this day. > >These recordings were captured on a 2-track tape deck in a school gymnasium, and pressed on two 12" LPs exclusively for the students, their classmates, teachers, and parents. When the recordings came to the attention of Irwin Chusid - author and producer of the recently published outsider music book/cd =91Songs in the Key of Z=92 and producer of other landmark cd reissues of Raymond Scott, Esquivel and The Shaggs - he vowed to make the Langley School Music Project commercially available. Chusid contacted many Langley School administrators, as well as Mr. Fenger and several of his. With their blessings these priceless recordings will finally be introduced to the rest of the planet. The cd issue of =93Innocence and Despair=92 will include a 16-page full-color booklet with a history of the recordings, personal reminiscences from Hans Fenger; photos from the original LP covers, and colorful sidelights. > >The Langley Schools Music Project wasn=92t staged to achieve money or fame = - these kids played music because they loved it. Innocent, flawed and bittersweet, these recordings deserve to be heard and preserved. They brim with charm and youthful =E9lan, sparked by flashes of lo-fi Spectorian majesty and Pet Sounds subtlety. Call it folk art, outsider music, or campfire rock -- the labels don't matter. The fact that these gorgeous, heavenly artifacts are being made available to a larger audience does. > >NOTE: Under a trustee arrangement with Langley School District #35, royalty payments from the sale of this cd will be collected in a fund and used to finance music scholarship in the schools and/or pay pro-rated shares to participating former students. For more information go to: http://keyofz.com/keyofz/langley/ =20 Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Documentary Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "richard ladew" Subject: Spring Heel Jack's Masses Date: 24 Aug 2001 23:46:06 -0400 Just picked up this SHJ release which has improv from Matt Shipp, Tim Berne, William Parker, Roy Cambpell et al. and manipulated / augmented by Spring Heel Jack. Any opinions? I quite enjoy the Tim Berne pieces. Hope this particular subject hasn't been done to death. NP: Albert Ayler "Complete Village Vanguard recordings" NR: Moby Dick Rich http://people.ne.mediaone.net/rladew - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Cultural vs. regular Zionism II.I Date: 24 Aug 2001 23:29:50 -0500 Hmm, possibly converging toward interesting points here: On Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 03:26:06AM -0000, Millie Gorgon wrote: > this is interesting and is exactly the type of sentiment that might fit well into a political discussion about the Mideast. unfortunately, not even the ambivalence is expressed much of anywhere in the RJC. and it doesn't change the fact that their is no indication of the current Mideast even existing in Zorn's music or the RJC Series (counterexamples?). One point that I think is being missed is that, as shown by Mandel's interview with Sharp, the RJC is not really a group, but is a label that Zorn has given to a series of CDs that Tzadik puts out. There really is no group to have such an opinion, or even to share a solid ambivalence. If a collective did exist, this might or might not be an issue that it chooses to address. Looking at it from the personal point of view of my own art (yes, a phrase that feels uncomfortably self-important to type): There are several issues on which I have quite strong viewpoints (Gee, no one would guess that from reading my posts *grin*). These rarely come out in my music, though, and while I used to write poetry on some of the issues, I've pretty much stopped. Why? Because the tools of art are often not particularly effective in dealing with the issues. Why write a string quartet about an issue when a letter, a magazine article, a protest march, or an election campaign may be more effective? The statement that "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture" had a famous B-side, when a movie mogul a long time ago was asked about the message of his movies: "If you want to send a message, use Western Union". Come to think of it, and this might be applicable to some of the work by the artists in question: I have written, performed, and recorded at least one piece that was directly prompted by the issues in Israel, in particular events in Hebron. But, since the music is a bit abstract, I doubt that would be perceived from the sounds themselves. That said, I strongly believe, and often quote, John Cage's statement: "... the performance of a piece of music can be a metaphor of society, or how we want society to be.... We could make a piece of music in which we are willing to live." My particular focus of interest is in improvisation structures (akin to Zorn's game works) as models for human interaction. So I've worked a lot with some political issues (some might say from a radical perspective) within the music that I do. (You can see me rant on at even greater length on this when my book "Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems" is published in about a month.) But it is difficult for music to represent opinions on complex political issues, and unreasonable to demand that it do so. > >How about if you actually go over there, live a while, get to know > >people on both sides there, and then attempt to form an easy > >opinion. I suspect that your moccasins have not yet logged that mile. > > you pegged me right - i'm young. i'm guilty. i've never been to Hebron. > however, i don't wear moccasins. you might be interested to know that young hippy activist types never like me. why are we talking about me? OK, context error: this was a reference to the aphorism that "you cannot truly understand a person until you have walked a mile in his moccasins." Why are we talking about ourselves and each other? Because political beliefs and opinions cannot exist in a vacuum: they are held by people, and understanding the human context of a person's beliefs is difficult without understanding the context in which they came about. > i'm not confusing them - i'm just saying it's better when artists don't make such a clear distinction between art/culture and politics. and that's what we should demand from artists who are central to Radical movements in art before we howl in favor of them. it's funny you mention food- Alvin Curran at least mentions Matzoh in the liner notes to Animal Behavior. but not a squeak about colonization. Ah, but note that "Animal Behaviour" is not part of the Radical Jewish Culture series. You see, there is no evidence that the artists are making any such distinction. To make a distinction implies a conscious consideration of the issue and a willful refusal to deal with it. Rather, it just is not a part of the pieces that are in the series. How would you have addressed the issues within, say, Shelley Hirsch's "O Little Town of East New York", Richard Teitlebaum's "Golem", or any of the many textless works in the series? And have you considered working with artists to develop a piece which does address your concerns, and submitting it to Zorn? I strongly suspect that if such a piece came his way and met his artistic standards (and budget), he would be quite open to placing it in the series. > could be that the current role of art and behavior of artists is impoverished and useless? To paraphrase Keepnews again, "Useless to whom?" Some might say that one feature of "art" is that it tends not to be "useful". > and as incredible and beautiful as Zorn's music is, that, in the end, it is nothing but a a series of statements limited within a self-circumscribed community of artists that professes to be, somehow, radical. Would the work be more acceptable if, for example, they had termed it "Contemporary Jewish Culture"? Is it a matter of a feeling of ownership of the term "radical"? > contrast with rural american folk and blues - there was always subject matter about power and current events; this was how music existed long before the commodified, self-referencing form we consume now. But, on the other hand, why would one possibly want to limit art to the discussion of these issues? An examination of musics outside those of contemporary and rural America (as well as a closer examination of just those rural materials) might prove surprising in its range. While some have sung of current events and power, many sang of love, of work, of family, of religion, of mortality, and of every aspect of human life, as well as the huge amounts of instrumental musics without topics. To say that only the corner of music concerning "power and current events" existed is to evince a lack of information about the real range of these musics. > this will probably be my last response; i think we're both beating our respective dead horses. (with clarinets) I suspect that are horses are still alive, and may yet be capable of traveling in compatible directions. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nick Chapman" Subject: BBC Radio 3 Masada broadcast Date: 25 Aug 2001 09:11:29 +0100 Masada's London concert was broadcast on BBC Radio 3 for the second time last night and I missed it (again, argh!). Has anyone got a recording of it and willing to make a copy? Can you e-mail me privately. Thanks - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se (Stephen Fruitman) Subject: Re: Cultural vs. regular Zionism II Date: 25 Aug 2001 12:12:33 +0200 (MET DST) Just my last two cents on the Zitt-Gorgon discussion: >Chomsky A brilliant linguist but bizarre and tendentious loose cannon as far as his media criticism and involvement in Middle East rhetoric is concerned. And btw, did you all know that Chomsky was a passionate Zionist in the forties, wanted to go and fight around 1948? His parents introduced him to a major linguist instead and his energies were directed elsewhere. Not sure when his stance changed. >if they remain ambivalent they should form an opinion! A bit authoritarian, innit? Besides, art works obliquely when it is at its best addressing the issues of the day. From the RJC series, take Jamie Saft=B4s _Sovlanut_ (meaning "tolerance") - he mixes and mashes up the influences his Jewish background and the Arabic and African-American cultures amongst which he grew up into a heady and thoughtful brew. >>hundreds of thousands of people are driven from their homes. Unfortunately, =B4twas ever thus in interethic violence. Though, in the case in question, no figures are entirely agreed upon among the historians as to how many were forced and how many fled. Regardless, ethnic cleansing of even one single individual anywhere stinks. Furthermore, upon ratification of Israel=B4s right to exist by the UN and the subsequent wars of 1948 and 1967, some 800,000 Jews residing in Arab lands were deported. In the crass realpolitik of this tiny patch of land, nobody=B4s hands are clean. >unequivocal international (except US) condemnation of all of this. Just doesn=B4t hold water. Standpoionts around the world are _very_ equivoca= l. >And you seem to continue to insist on artists having bizarre >responsibilities because they happen to make music -- a belief that >most, if not all, of the many artists that I know and work with would >find laughable, if not utterly offensive. And by extension: Does one throw out an artist=B4s records once he/she makes an offensive political remark (you want a list?)? Remember David Bowie and his flirt with UK White Power? >i'm just saying it's better when artists don't make such a clear >distinction >between art/culture and politics. I=B4m glad they do. Why are their political opinions intrinsically valuable? In the long run, they do us a much greater service by offering us an alternative to rhetoric. =46inally: I believe this debate really got hung up by the word "Radical". Had Zorn called his series "the Jewish Cultural Renaissance" (a term coined by Martin Buber to describe roughly what we=B4re talking about), I don=B4t believe we=B4d have any problems, no? Stephen Fruitman Dept of Historical Studies Ume=E5 University SE-901 87 Ume=E5 Sweden - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se (Stephen Fruitman) Subject: Quickie Orientation in Jewish Cultural Renaissance Date: 25 Aug 2001 12:12:28 +0200 (MET DST) =46or them what wants a short orientation in "cultural Zionism", read furthe= r. Here=B4s a few reading tips which contain interesting analyses of the so-called "Jewish cultural Renaissance", of which cultural Zionism is but one part. Brenner, Michael, _The Renaissance of Jewish Culture in Weimar Germany_ (New Haven & London, 1996) Kornberg, Jacques (ed.), _At the Crossroads: Essays on Ahad Ha-am_ (Albany, NY., 1983) L=F6wy, Michel, _R=E9demption et Utopie. Le juda=EFsme libertaire en Europe centrale_ (Paris, 1988) Myers, David N., _Re-Inventing the Jewish Past: European Jewish Intellectuals and the Zionist Return to History_ (New York & Oxford, 1995) Nochlin, Linda & Tamar Garb (eds.), _The Jew in the Text: Modernity and the Construction of Identity_ (London, 1995) Roskies, David G., _The Jewish Search for a Usable Past_ (Bloomington & Indianapolis, 1999) The book edited by Kornberg features some excellent essays on the essence(s) of cultural Zionism, the others problematize the perceived need for a modernization of Jewish culture in the late 19th/early 20th century. And for our French readers, L=F6wy=B4s book is a brilliant study of how vari= ous Jewish thinkers, from Gershom Scholem, Walter Benjamin, Georg Lukacs and =46ranz Kafka, among others, struggled to make use of Jewish tradition to achieve their cultural (and yes, political) goals. A capsule run-down: Cultural Zionism was born among (mostly East European) Jewish intellectuals _before_ its politcal variant. They had been affected by the ideas of the Enlightenment and by the Jews in Western Europe achieving their civil rights (from about 1870 forward) and were frustrated by the what they perceived as the "narrow-mindedness" that tradition had ended up in after so many centuries being locked up in the ghetto and becoming far too inward-looking perforce. Not surprisingly, most of the first cultural Zionists were lapsed rabbis, Ahad Ha-am among them. While some of them retained their faith, the latter did not, and most cultural Zionist work was aimed at affecting a renaissance of Jewish culture by making use of the "timeless" components of the tradition while including impulses from Western, democratic thought. This movement gained momentum after Jews rights were challenged in the West (Dreyfus trial in =46rance, the emergence of political antisemitism in Austria and Germany, pogroms in Russia, Romania and the Ukraine), and with the appearance of Theodor Herzl and political Zionism at the very end of the century, many allied themselves with the movement, seeing a chance to get their cultural ideas put on the agenda and receive broader dissemination. However, after but a few years, they felt frustrated by the strictly political bent of the movement (acquiring internationally recognized rights for a "Jewish homeland" in Palestine), and left the organization. These included among others Martin Buber and Judah Magnes, the first president of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, who created the first "peace movement", trying to unite the Jewish renaissance idea with co-operation with the Palestinians in the very first decades of the century. Albert Einstein was more or less allied with this current of thought as well, as were all kinds of thinkers, poets, authors, painters, "ordinary folks", and musicians - Arnold Sch=F6nberg could be included here, though in time he became more right-wing. Like all other "isms", cultural Zionism comes in many hues and colours, as some of the literature above will prove. Furthermore, "cultural Zionism" is but one aspect of general trends in the modernization of Jewish culture in Europe, the Middle East and America. My personal interpretation of Zorn=B4s choice of Ahad Ha-am as a symbol for his RJC series is that he is a representative name, seeing as his work was strictly oriented toward Jewish thought. But he could just as easily have chosen other movements or individuals or milieux, like turn of the century Vienna, Weimar Germany or =46rance since the 1970s (great book: _Vilna on the Seine_ by Judith =46riedlander). Stephen Fruitman Dept of Historical Studies Ume=E5 University SE-901 87 Ume=E5 Sweden - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: RE:groundbreaking Date: 25 Aug 2001 17:45:00 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- > Tangentially related: Doesn't a tape exist somehwere of the Miles quintet > of the 60's, minus miles and with Gary Peacock instead of Ron Carter? I 've never heard of quintet w/o Davis, but Peacock actually replaced Carter on numerous gigs. I don't know of any miles recordings with Henderson. In fact are there any post 65 quintet live recs avialable? I've got the plugged nickel box, and some boots with shorter/holland/dejohnette, and then black beauty etc. I'like to know what the 66 - 68 concerts were like. In '65 they were playing very 'jazz' stuff, and i 've heard that miles played the old strandrds up to BB period - but then they were reportedly played in quite an original way: which could be hardly surpising, given the material on sorcerer, nefertiti, etc. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Naked City Date: 25 Aug 2001 16:48:59 +0200 Remco Takken wrote : Remember Zappa's LETS MAKE A JAZZ NOISE HERE: it was reprinted without the Stravinsky Histoire du Soldat excerpt, because the owners of the work didn't approve. (I have no idea btw if this omission is still there in current pressings). *** I bought this record two years ago, and the short tune was there. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: writing about music is like... Date: 25 Aug 2001 17:52:33 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- > Paul Bely's volume is a little self-agrandizing, but > what autobiography isn't? Bley has led a fascinating > musical life though, probably not as well planned as > he suggests in the book, however. Can you recommend me some Bley's albums, while we're taklking about him? All this book- related discussion made me realize that this is the first time in my (age 7+) life I haven't read any fiction during the holidays! I'm moving quickly into alcohol - stravinsky - zorn - davis - wittgenstein degenration... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Odp: writing about music is like... Date: 26 Aug 2001 10:50:41 -0700 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ken Waxman > >> Paul Bely's volume is a little self-agrandizing, but >> what autobiography isn't? Bley has led a fascinating >> musical life though, probably not as well planned as >> he suggests in the book, however. > > Can you recommend me some Bley's albums, while we're taklking about > him? > Bley has made dozens of albums, and few people agree what the best ones are, except everybody tends to start with the trio album FOOTLOOSE (Savoy), which geatures Steve Swallow and Pete LaRoca and, for my money, manages to do something the Ornette albums on Atlantic couldn't -- namely, to take the harmonically free road and make it completely tracable and hearable as a music plot. I think there are two reasons for this -- A) It's easier to do in a trio, where you don't have two changing voives (and therefore two changing vocabularies) fronting the group in different ways at different times. B) That the piano indicates harmonic direction (free or not) more immediately than a saxophone, trumpet, or even a guitar. By all accounts (from people who pay attention to this stuff), FOOTLOOSE was one of the albums that did a lot to define mdern piano playing. When you put it on for someone who knows Herbie, Keith, Chick etc, they usually think it was recorded in their wake -- "Oh, he's obviously checked out Herbie on ESP" etc -- but it predates that stuff by about five years. There's a good reissue of it on Savoy/Denon, and I urge pretty much anyone who likes music to pick it up. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: MIMEO zine Date: 25 Aug 2001 17:16:52 EDT today I received in the mail a zine called Bruit Blanc, produced in France by Patrick Bouef, the sole purpose of which is to commemorate the 24 hour MIMEO concert in Vand'ouevre last May. many of the musicians have written observations concerning that day and the band in general, as well as a bunch of onlookers, of whom there were sadly too few. the magazine is in English as well as French, with identical content in each language. short of seeing the band perform, which happens only once or twice a year, this is an invaluable source of insights into the workings of what I consider the most important band on the improv scene today. if you're interested in obtaining a copy, you can e-mail Patrick at boeuf@club-internet.fr. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: US tour: doerner/kelley/neumann/rainey Date: 25 Aug 2001 18:33:46 EDT here's some info about a pretty exciting US tour, beginning next week and=20 continuing throughout september. I hope to see some of you at the Labor Day=20 Tonic show (Axel's NYC club debut), which will be three sets for the price o= f=20 one. also, if you'd like to pick up some Erstwhile CDs there at $10 a pop,=20 please contact me privately. thanks, and sorry for the mildly commercial=20 interruption. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com axel doerner - trumpet greg kelley - trumpet andrea neumann - innenklavier bhob rainey - soprano saxophone u.s. tour 2001 august 29th - boston, ma. church of the advent. september 3rd - new york, ny. tonic. 4th - columbus, oh. madlab. 6th - detroit, mi. detroit contemporary. 7th - chicago, il. the candlestick maker. 8th - minneapolis, mn. venue tba 10th - denver, co. 1215 e. 13th avenue. 11th - colorado springs, co. venue tba. 12th - salt lake city, ut. kilby court gallery. 13th - san francisco, ca. luggage store gallery. 15th - portland, or. 1st congregational church. 16th - berkeley, ca. acme observatory. 17th - san diego, ca. eveoke dance theater. 20th - austin, tx. venue tba. 21st - houston, tx. mecca. 22nd - new orleans, la. zeitgeist. 24th - louisville, ky. artswatch. 25th - newport, ky. southgate house. 26th - st. louis, mo. forum for contemporary art 27th - bloomington, in. gallery 101 28th - chapel hill, nc. house concert (ian davis via AIM), 29th - birmingham, al. pilgrim congregational church. october 1st. washington, d.c. DCAC. This September, two of Berlin's most renowned experimental musicians, Axel Doerner and Andrea Neumann, tour the United States with nmperign, Boston's acclaimed duo of Bhob Rainey and Greg Kelley. Doerner and Kelley represent the forefront of innovation on their chosen instrument - the unlikely trumpet. In parallel, they have found ways to transform the traditionally unsubtle bad boy of the brass family into an instrument of intimate detail and variety, adding breath and an understated humor to a palette of sounds often associated with electronic music. A similar case can be made for Rainey, whose music has challenged the role of the saxophone (specifically, the soprano saxophone) even in the well-trammelled field of experimental music. Distinctly un-saxophone-like sounds mingle with pure tones, multiphonics (split-tones), and a host of unnameable outpourings in a microtonal universe far removed from the well-tempered dungeon of Western Europe. Andrea Neumann's instrument, the innenklavier (inside-piano), has a distant relationship with the well-tempered world - it is a custom-made inside-of-a-piano that Neumann prepares with kitchen-sink ingenuity (literally including items from the kitchen). But don't expect the orientalisms of John Cage's prepared piano works - Neumann's is a microscopic universe where noise scratches at the edge of silence. Tour schedule, information and mp3s are available at http://homepage.mac.com/bhobr. Further information can be obtained by contacting Bhob Rainey at 617.629.2587 or via email at bhobr@earthlink.net. Axel D=F6rner (b. 1964) - trumpet Studied piano and trumpet (with Malte Burba) at the Musikhochschule, Cologne. Moved to Berlin in 1994. He has performed with numerous internationally respected figures (Schlippenbach, Fred Lonberg-Holm, Jim O'Rourke, Kevin Drumm, Sven-Ake Johansson, etc.) in the fields of Improvised Music, New Music and Jazz. He has developed a totally unique style of trumpet playing based in part on unusual, often self-invented techniques that seem to cross the boundary between electric and acoustic sound, although no electronics are used. He has toured in Europe, USA, Australia, Japan and appeared on numerous CD and record releases. Greg Kelley (b. 1973) - trumpet Studied classical trumpet at the Peabody Conservatory in Baltimore. There, in a small studio at night, he began, with a few like-minded individuals, to develop his approach to the trumpet - one filled with unique preparations and extended techniques that defy acoustic expectations. He has performed in the U.S., Europe, and Japan with highly respected musicians (Kevin Drumm, Donald Miller, Keiji Haino, Michael Zerang, etc.) and has appeared on numerous CDs.=20 Andrea Neumann (b.1968) - innenklavier (custom-made portable instrument) Studied piano at "Hochschule der K=FCnste" in Berlin. In the process of exploring the piano for new sound possibilities she has reduced the instrument to strings, resonance board and metal frame. With the help of electronics to manipulate and amplify the sounds, she has developed numerous new playing techniques, sounds, and ways of preparing the dismantled instrument. She has worked intensively in the crossover area between composition and improvisation with musicians such as Annette Krebs, Axel D=F6rner, John Edwards, Kaffe Mathews, Phil Durrant, and Sven-=C5ke Johansso= n in a range of festivals at home and abroad. She has also composed for interdisciplinary projects such as film, dance and performance. Bhob Rainey (b.1972) - soprano saxophone Studied composition at the New England Conservatory. In 1996 he began to cultivate an approach to the saxophone that utilizes both the extreme possibilities of sound available on the instrument and the extreme ends of the dynamic spectrum, tending towards silence. He has performed with numerous internationally recognized musicians (John Zorn, Kevin Drumm, Fred Lonberg-Holm, Jerome Noetinger, etc.) in the U.S. and in Europe and has both produced and appeared on numerous CDs. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams Subject: Fwd: SONNY SHARROCK Date: 25 Aug 2001 18:43:09 -0400 --Boundary_(ID_xsAuxfIl18BW9G4WVarnuQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >From: SHOUTINKID@aol.com >Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 11:49:59 EDT >Subject: SONNY SHARROCK >To:suppressed > >SONNY SHARROCK BIRTHDAY CELEBRATION > > >HOSTED BY CHARLES BLASS >& >KENDALL BUCHANAN > > >SUNDAY, AUGUST 26th 2pm to 7pm > > >WKCR 89.9 FM > > >OR ON LINE AT > > >WWW.WKCR.ORG > > >5 HOURS OF GUEST, INTERVIEWS, AND THE MUSIC OF THE GREAT SONNY SHARROCK --Boundary_(ID_xsAuxfIl18BW9G4WVarnuQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Fwd: SONNY SHARROCK
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SONNY SHARROCK BIRTHDAY CELEBRATION

HOSTED BY CHARLES BLASS
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--Boundary_(ID_xsAuxfIl18BW9G4WVarnuQ)-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Cultural vs. regular Zionism II Date: 26 Aug 2001 00:02:59 +0000
>From: stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se (Stephen Fruitman)
>
>Just my last two cents on the Zitt-Gorgon discussion:
>
> >Chomsky
>
>A brilliant linguist but bizarre and tendentious loose cannon as far as his
>media criticism and involvement in Middle East rhetoric is concerned.
 
Really?  How so?  And why a "loose cannon?"  Spend any time with his texts and you would be hard pressed to conclude that he's motivated by anything less than reason and rigor in his arguments.  But of course it's the conclusions that trouble people the most.  And they should.  But the evidence is all there if one bothers to take a look.

>
>And btw, did you all know that Chomsky was a passionate Zionist in the
>forties, wanted to go and fight around 1948? His parents introduced him to
>a major linguist instead and his energies were directed elsewhere. Not sure
>when his stance changed.
 
Perhaps the sixties or earlier, after he had received a university education.  More recently he's been accused of being an anti-semite for his opposition to Israeli policy toward the Palestinians.  That's a laugher if there ever was one.
 
IMO, the arguments against Zorn's Radical Jewish Culture project are misplaced.  It's clear that Zorn has something eles in mind in his use of "radical" in this context.
 
But we should be careful not to confuse cultural zionism with political zionism in any case.
 
A recent quote from Chomsky on the Z-Net is below.  I'd like to see how this representation of the sources of the conflict suggest that he's a "loose cannon."
 
"There is an official US position — it was reiterated just yesterday by US ambassador Martin Indyk. He said we do not believe in rewarding violence. That was a stern admonition to the Palestinians yesterday, and there are many others like it. And it’s easy to assess the validity of that claim. So let’s assess it just in the obvious way. The Al-Aqsa Intifada, the violence that Indyk deplores, began on September 29th.  That’s the day after Ariel Sharon, now prime minister, went to the Haram Al-Sharif, the Temple Mount, with about a thousand soldiers. That passed more or less without incident, surprisingly. But the next day, which was Friday, there was a huge army presence as people left the mosque after prayers; there was some stone throwing and immediate shooting by the Israeli army and Border Patrol, which left about a half a dozen Palestinians killed and over a hundred wounded. That’s September 29th. On October 1st, Israeli military helicopters, or to be precise US military helicopters with Israeli pilots, sharply escalated the violence, killing two Palestinians in Gaza. On October 2nd, military helicopters killed 10 people in Gaza, wounded 35. On October 3rd, helicopters were attacking apartment complexes and other civilian targets. And so it continued. By early November, the helicopters were being used for targeted political assassinations.

And how did the US react?  Well, the US reaction is interesting—and that’s us remember; we can control this if we choose.  In mid September, before the fighting started, the US sent a new shipment of advanced attack helicopters to Israel. Also in mid September, there were joint exercises of the US Marines and elite units of the Israeli army, the IDF—training exercises for re-conquest of the occupied territories. The role of the Marines was to provide new advanced equipment that Israel didn’t have and training in usage of it and techniques. That’s mid September.

On October 3rd — that is the day that the press was reporting that military helicopters were attacking apartment complexes and killing dozens of people — on October 3rd, the Israeli press announced and then the international press repeated that the US and Israel had reached a deal — the biggest deal in a decade — for dispatch of US military helicopters to Israel.  The next day leading military journals reported that this included new advanced attack helicopters and parts for the former helicopters, which would increase the capacity to attack civilian targets. Incidentally the Israeli defense ministry announced that they cannot produce helicopters. They don’t have the capacity so they have to get them from the United States. On October 19th, Amnesty International issued a report calling on the United States not to send military helicopters to Israel under these circumstances—one of a series of Amnesty International reports."


 

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- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mathieu Belanger Subject: Re: Zorn, Laswell, Frith, and Lombardo Date: 25 Aug 2001 21:32:54 -0400 Hello, >I found a live recording of a group consisting of Zorn, Laswell, Frith, and >Lombardo. Did this group ever do any formal recordings? They have one track on _Taboo and Exile_. Unless I'm forgetting something (and please correct me if so), it's their only official recording. Hope it helps, Mathieu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: smokey@laplaza.org Subject: Re: Radical Zorn Date: 25 Aug 2001 21:20:29 -0600 All this talk reminds me of an early (pre-CD) recording of a Masada String Trio(Friedlander, Feldman and Cohen) concert that I got from the ol' Napster(I know, I know, JZ wouldn't approve - awfully tasty, though...). Just before they began, after introducing the musicians, John Z banished the knot of photographers from the front of the stage("I don't care who you are, or what color your hair is dyed."), asking the audience how to say "Get the fuck out" in Polish - this was Warsaw. Then, just before they got down to bizniz, he stated, "We're the New York Jews, motherfucker!" Close as I've heard him say anything remotely related to Radical Jewish Culture... That said, there are plenty of clues in the album art and liner notes of various Tzadik releases. Personally, I'd rather artists stick to letting whatever influences they might have get filtered through them, coming out ambivalent, cryptic and subjective in their art, without any direct statements, explanations or preaching. Assume I'm smart and creative enough myself to come to my own conclusions. Dan in Taos NP: Bob Belden/Tim Hagans - Re-Animation, Live! at the Montreal Jazz Festival - mighty good NR: Space is the Place, the lives and times of Sun Ra, by John Szwed (a cutout hardback, bought new for 49 cents) - what a guy - now there's an artist with a message for his audience... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "josephneff" Subject: Re: Paul Bley Date: 26 Aug 2001 01:44:18 -0400 Hello, ...first, let me apologize to those who received the HTML messages that I sent to the list. Unless I'm mistaken, the problem is taken care of. ...now, about Paul Bley. When ZYX reissued the ESP stuff on disc a few years back, I snagged both of Bley's titles for the label. The first is a quintet, the other a trio. Both are more than worth getting. "Barrage", the quintet session, features quite the notable line-up. Marshall Allen from the Arkestra on alto, Dewey Johnson from Coltrane's "Ascension" on trumpet, and the wizard Milford Graves on percussion, along with bassist Eddie Gomez and Bley. The music moves quite well, Gomez and Graves shining throughout, with the horn players giving nice solos, particularly Allen. Bley at the keyboard is fluid but never busy, nothing he plays seems unnecessary or overdone. The trio recording begins with the pretty and unusual composition from Carla Bley titled "Ida Lupino", named for the noteworthy actress/director. Carla is responsible for seven of the disc's ten tracks, and the group does them up quite nicely, Barry Altschul and Steve Swallow communicating very effectively with Bley. The piano playing is exciting from beginning to end, hitting an area that I'd call accessibly abstract. Where "Barrage" often approaches it's title in delivery (but don't get me wrong, it's not "New York Eye and Ear Control"), "Closer" lacks that ferocity, the trio electing instead to stretch the boundaries of the "piano-trio". ....1965 and 66 appears to have been a really fertile time for Bley. "Closer" was recorded in December of 65, but I prefer a live date from just over a month earlier, also a trio w/ Altschul and Kent Carter replacing Swallow. It's on an Arista Freedom 2LP titled "Copenhagen and Haarlem" (not a misspelling, it's Haarlem, Holland). Carter's playing is tougher to my ears than Swallow's, and yes I realize I'm comparing a live performance to a studio recording. Swallow does a great job, but Carter ultimately commands more of my attention. Even better though, is sides 3 & 4, were Mark Levinson takes over the bass. One day short of a year after the Carter recording, and what a difference....rather then the concise exercises from the Swallow/Carter groups, Bley instead focuses on stretching out with two side long Annette Peacock (Gary's sister? Wife?) pieces that display the versatility of Bley and Altschul, while Levinson plucks solos of rare intensity. Don't know if this stuff has made it to CD or not. Highly recommended. ....the same group recorded a set for BYG, w/ one cut on the "JazzActuel" 3CD set. It's a short, sweet take on Ornette's "Ramblin'". Here's hoping that Get Back reissues ALL the BYG titles onto rec, so more folks can hear those albums in their entirety. ....Lastly, the recently released ECM CD "Sankt Gerold Variations" w/ Evan Parker and Barre Phillips is outstanding. Challenging music, often played by only one of the threesome, it possesses a calm and assurance (even at its most noise some) that is absent from most of the free music that I've heard. It's an unusual and welcome thing. One of the best recordings to come my way this year. ....so, what's the scoop on other Bley releases? I remain.... Joseph NP: Bley Parker Phillips "Sankt Gerold Variations" CD NR: Christopher Sorrentino "Sound on Sound" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Paul Bley Date: 26 Aug 2001 22:42:27 -0700 > > ....so, what's the scoop on other Bley releases? > > I remain.... > > Joseph > There's a duo record he & Chet Baker cut for Soul Note (of which I forget the title) that I think is really terrific, although few Chet fans agree with me on this point. But their respective styles really work in a duo context, whereas I think a rhythm section would make them sound irreconsilable. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ryan Novak Subject: Lords of Doom Date: 26 Aug 2001 09:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Hi, I'm very interested in the wilder (non-musical) happenings of the Norwegian black metal scene, and someone told me there was a book on it called Lords of Doom. Haven't a clue where to find it though- if someone even knows of the author I'm sure it would help. Thanks, Ryan N. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Lords of Doom Date: 26 Aug 2001 13:13:41 -0400 Ironically, I was planning to ask THE VERY SAME QUESTION on the Z-list TODAY. What are the odds? So thanks for getting there first, Ryan, and to whomever choses to address the question: please post the reply to the list, or at least copy me, okay? Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Ryan Novak Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 12:26 PM I'm very interested in the wilder (non-musical) happenings of the Norwegian black metal scene, and someone told me there was a book on it called Lords of Doom. Haven't a clue where to find it though- if someone even knows of the author I'm sure it would help. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Aging Artists Date: 25 Aug 2001 12:51:13 -0500 It's been my experience that most artists (not just one trick ponies) reach a point of stagnation; point where innovation stops. This doesn't mean the person's technical ability stops improving. I think we fall into the trap of comparing a artists who die in mid-flight -- Hendrix, Coltrane, Parker (no pun intended), etc. -- to artists who live their lives out. It's impossible to expect constant innovation from people entering into a part of their lives when innovation is no longer priority. Middle age is the "age of mastery" to developmental psychologist, not the age of innovation. Zorn and other artists are honing their skills by going in depth into things so they can do them as best they can. Should we expect Nobel prizes every year from a scientist who won when he was 30? Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grey ElkGel Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #548 - Axel Doerner Date: 26 Aug 2001 10:57:28 -0700 (PDT) > axel doerner - trumpet > > greg kelley - trumpet > > andrea neumann - innenklavier > > bhob rainey - soprano saxophone > > I hope to see some of you at the Labor Day Tonic > show (Axel's NYC club debut), actually, axel played at carnegie hall a few years ago as part of the jazz band in a piece by bernd zimmerman for orchestra and jazz band. though i think this is definitely andrea neumann's nyc debut. .greg. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= Subject: LORDS OF CHAOS, BLOOD AXIS, etc Date: 26 Aug 2001 19:05:25 +0100 (BST) The book is called 'LORDS OF CHAOS' and should still be easily obtained. For instance, you can buy it at my local HMV. You'll be able to order it from 'anywhere', i'm sure. The price will vary, of course. Shop around. It's a great book, probably even for those who have no interest in the actual music, scene, etc. I'll admit, I'm not a big fan. The author is Michael Mohniyhan. He's the mainman of the band BLOOD AXIS. Are many of you familar with them? Their 'The Gospel Of Humanity' LP was probably my album of 1997. I'd be very interested in anyone's thoughts, especially as he has some very questionable views and opinions - the opposite of JZ's radical jew shit, if you know what I mean. There's a website that names him as one of the most dangerous men in the US (with good reason, according to some), but I'm afraid I can't find the address. I'll dig it out and post it up... ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= Subject: Re: LORDS OF CHAOS, BLOOD AXIS, etc (correction) Date: 26 Aug 2001 19:10:17 +0100 (BST) CORRECTION. >The author is Michael Mohniyhan. Sorry I spelt his name wrong. It's Michael Moynihan. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeroen de Boer Subject: Re: LORDS OF CHAOS, BLOOD AXIS, etc Date: 26 Aug 2001 20:25:33 +0200 That's strange, I thought he was a respected journalist trying to clarify the (European) blackmetalscene. I looked into the book a couple of times in a local bookstore and his writings seemed quite objective. There are also a number of comments on the back of the book by other journalists and sociologists. Are you sure he's some right-extremist blackmetalfan? Here's some info about the book: http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Plaza/6693/LordsOfChaos.html Jeroen > my album of 1997. I'd be very interested in anyone's > thoughts, especially as he has some very questionable > views and opinions - the opposite of JZ's radical jew > shit, if you know what I mean. > > There's a website that names him as one of the most > dangerous men in the US (with good reason, according > to some), but I'm afraid I can't find the address. > > I'll dig it out and post it up... Jeroen de Boer content director Cyberslag Content Providing Damsterdiep 15 9711SG Groningen The Netherlands t +31(0)503115496 m +31 (0)624814506 f +31(0)503119447 jeroen@cyberslag.nl www.cyberslag.nl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= Subject: MICHAEL MOYNIHAN Date: 26 Aug 2001 19:35:33 +0100 (BST) >Are you sure he's some right-extremist blackmetalfan? Well, I wouldn't call him that exactly... Just do a bit of research. There is plenty of material on the internet that is for and against him. A good example of the latter is: http://www.deeswatch.com/moynihan.html The articles starts... "In the latest edition of its Intelligence Report, the Southern Poverty Center names Michael Moynihan (EYE, Sept./Oct. 1999) one of the top six young racist in the Unites Sates, and a "new leader of the radical right"." ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: LORDS OF CHAOS, BLOOD AXIS, etc Date: 26 Aug 2001 11:54:06 -0700 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Jeroen de Boer > Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 11:26 AM > That's strange, I thought he was a respected journalist trying to clarify > the (European) blackmetalscene. I looked into the book a couple > of times in > a local bookstore and his writings seemed quite objective. There > are also a > number of comments on the back of the book by other journalists and > sociologists. Are you sure he's some right-extremist blackmetalfan? Probably both -- like a few folks in the goth/industrial/metal scene (Boyd Rice, Douglas Pearce, etc.), Moynihan has been coy about labels like "fascist" and "Nazi," though it's clear that his musical/philosophical interests lie in those areas. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...? Can't be entirely sure, though he sure seems that way. (See http://welcome.to/bloodaxis -- also type in "Southern Poverty Law Center" and "Michael Moynihan" in Google and see what you come up with.) To his credit, however, "Lords of Chaos" is an extremely well-researched book -- and a surprisingly objective one as well, given Moynihan's political affiliations. We get a lovingly detailed portrait of the black metal scene, as well as the events that led up to the various horrific murders and church-burnings that put black metal in the spotlight. There's a tendency in books like these, i.e., about criminals and such, to glorify them. One can read, between the lines, Moynihan's begrudging admiration for that stupid Count Grishnackh's willingness to act out his homicidal fantasies -- but it is clear as well that he deplores such measures. My only major quibble is that there just isn't enough on the *music* -- not much real discussion of how each band sounds, much more differ from each other. Later, Ben http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/ ICQ: 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #548 - Axel Doerner Date: 26 Aug 2001 15:02:10 EDT In a message dated 8/26/01 1:58:13 PM, greyelkgel@yahoo.com writes: << > I hope to see some of you at the Labor Day Tonic > show (Axel's NYC club debut), actually, axel played at carnegie hall a few years ago as part of the jazz band in a piece by bernd zimmerman for orchestra and jazz band. >> which is why I was careful to add the word "club" rather than just saying "NYC debut", my nitpicking friend. :) Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: LORDS OF CHAOS, BLOOD AXIS, etc Date: 26 Aug 2001 15:38:13 -0400 It's worth noting at this point, perhaps, that according to Amazon.com, the notorious Moynihan (who we've discussed here once before, if memory serves) did not write 'Lords of Chaos,' only its preface. The author of the book itself appears to have been Didrik Soderlind. Or is Amazon mistaken? Anyway, I looked at the reader reviews - always the most important thing to use when weighing an Amazon purchase, I think - and decided to order Deena Weinstein's 'Heavy Metal: The Music and Its Culture' instead. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Aging Artists Date: 27 Aug 2001 12:47:00 -0700 > It's been my experience that most artists (not just one trick ponies) reach > a point of stagnation; point where innovation stops. This doesn't mean the > person's technical ability stops improving. I think we fall into the trap > of comparing a artists who die in mid-flight -- Hendrix, Coltrane, Parker > (no pun intended), etc. -- to artists who live their lives out. It's > impossible to expect constant innovation from people entering into a part of > their lives when innovation is no longer priority. Middle age is the "age > of mastery" to developmental psychologist, not the age of innovation. Zorn > and other artists are honing their skills by going in depth into things so > they can do them as best they can. Should we expect Nobel prizes every year > from a scientist who won when he was 30? > > Zach > > - > Zach -- No, we shouldn't. Most people don't even make that kind of mark even once, and it's worse than disrespectful to forget that. When I hear people run down someone like Sonny Rollins with a remark like "He should have quit after SAXOPHONE COLOSSUS" or whatever, I generally feel like kicking their teeth down their throat. You only have to raise the bar once to have changed how the sport gets played. Most artists never quite do that, and to have done it at all -- regardless of age -- is a miracle. To stay in business in such a competitive, timely field as the creative arts is a minor miracle. And, unfortunately, so is getting and keeping the respect for your contributions. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Millie Gorgon" Subject: Zorn-pol Date: 26 Aug 2001 19:46:13 -0000 (Zitt sed:) >I have written, performed, and recorded at least one piece that was directly prompted by the issues in Israel, in particular events in Hebron. But, since the music is a bit abstract, I doubt that would be perceived from the sounds themselves. That said, I strongly believe, and often quote, John Cage's statement: "... the performance of a piece of music can be a metaphor of society, or how we want society to be.... We could make a piece of music in which we are willing to live." My particular focus of interest is in improvisation structures (akin to Zorn's game works) as models for human interaction. So I've worked a lot with some political issues (some might say from a radical perspective) within the music that I do. i fully agree with the Cage quote; but it still bothers me that we have such a limitation to metaphor. music and speech are already symbolic, why must we always write in meta-symbols/metaphor? NWA said "Fuck Tha Police." Hardcore is more of a physical (non-symbolic) assault on the listener than anything else. why not, at least occasionally, say what you mean. like in Chadbourne's protest tunes. it's limiting not to! >> >How about if you actually go over there, live a while, get to know >>people on both sides there, and then attempt to form an easy > >opinion. I suspect that your moccasins have not yet logged that mile. > > you pegged me right - i'm young. i'm guilty. i've never been to Hebron. > >however, i don't wear moccasins. you might be interested to know that > >young hippy activist types never like me. why are we talking about me? >OK, context error: this was a reference to the aphorism that "you cannot truly understand a person until you have walked a mile in his moccasins." That is funny - i sure make myself look stupid sometimes. (please, no cheap shots, e.g. "it's your arguments that make you look even more stupid, stupid.") >> contrast with rural american folk and blues - there was always subject matter about power and current events; this was how music existed long before the commodified, self-referencing form we consume now. >But, on the other hand, why would one possibly want to limit art to the discussion of these issues? . . . While some have sung of current events and power, many sang of love, of work, of family, of religion, of mortality, and of every aspect of human life, as well as the huge amounts of instrumental musics without topics. To say that only the corner of music concerning "power and current events" existed is to evince a lack of information about the real range of these musics. precisely, folk musics are about all of those things -and what's the missing category from the RJC Series? - which certainly is about all of those things you listed, EXCEPT current events/politics (and maybe work...) (Fruitman sed:) >stinks. Furthermore, upon ratification of Israel´s right to exist by the UN and the subsequent wars of 1948 and 1967, some 800,000 Jews residing in Arab lands were deported. In the crass realpolitik of this tiny patch of land, nobody´s hands are clean. (right, the Palestinians have dirty hands cuz they no longer have access to water in which to clean them..) didn't most of those 800,000 Jews emigrate (by choice) to Israel because their homeland was founded? don't forget that in 1967 the UN ordered Israel to withdrawal from occupied territories; 34 years later, they've refused to comply. it's simple, direct, forced colonization; who besides the US and Israel approves??? http://www.ibiblio.org/sullivan/docs/UNRes242.html & i concur w/ Bill Ashline about his comments on Chomsky... >Finally: I believe this debate really got hung up by the word "Radical". Had Zorn called his series "the Jewish Cultural Renaissance" (a term coined by Martin Buber to describe roughly what we´re talking about), I don´t believe we´d have any problems, no? generally, we wouldn't. it's not so much a hangup as that is what the debate was (WAS!) about. i have differing expectations when considering a Radical group and Cultural Renaissance group. the latter sounds flaky to me (no offense to Buber, there wasn't any token/commodified multiculturalism around when he coined the phrase) - the quality and the content of the RJC would have exceeded my expectations if that were its title. also, i'm picking on Zorn only because he has these pretensions about radicalism while he's at a high point in his bourgeois respectability. Spy v Spy made people flee from the venue. (Zitt again (1st line is me):) >> could be that the current role of art and behavior of artists is impoverished and useless? >To paraphrase Keepnews again, "Useless to whom?" Some might say that one feature of "art" is that it tends not to be "useful". useless to whom? - useless to the regular person! ever read Zappa's lecture to the American Society of University Composers about the current role of the composer in the US? (it's in the Real Frank Zappa Book)- "why do people continue to compose music, and even pretend to teach each others how to do it, when they already know the answer? Nobody gives a fuck." i revert to my former (slightly amended) statement: could it be that the current role of art and behavior of artists is impoverished and useless? and as incredible and beautiful as Zorn's music is, that, in the end, it is nothing but a a series of statements limited within a self-circumscribed community of artists that professes to be, somehow, radical. this is politically sanitized for musicians and polite bourgeois only. contrast with rural american folk and blues - there was always subject matter about power and current events integrated within other human topics; this was how music existed long before the commodified, self-referencing escapism we consume now. then again, someone who tells Vaclav Havel, Madeline Albright and Lou Reed to SHUT THE FUCK UP! can't be all that non-political.... ok that's that's really the last of my input this time. boing! be well, mg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: Aging Artists Date: 26 Aug 2001 19:53:51 +0000 >When I hear people run >down someone like Sonny Rollins with a remark like "He should have quit >after SAXOPHONE COLOSSUS" or whatever, I generally feel like kicking their >teeth down their throat. Hm, perhaps, but I still think this world would have been a far better place had James Brown stopped making music in 1974. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Black Sabbath (NO ZORN CONTENT!!!) Date: 26 Aug 2001 23:17:03 +0200 Hi boys & girls... While the first CD by Body Count was being played last night at a party I was invited to, somebody mentioned that some of the guitar-parts reminded him of Black Sabbath. And - holy hell, it wasn't until then that I realized I still don't have any recorded material by them... So: what would you recommend as a good starting point? Thanks for the help! patRice np: Fela Kuti, Original Sufferhead nr: sfa - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: LORDS OF CHAOS, BLOOD AXIS, etc Date: 26 Aug 2001 17:12:34 -0400 Says Benito Vergara in response to my previous post: >> It's worth noting at this point, perhaps, that according to >> Amazon.com, the >> notorious Moynihan (who we've discussed here once before, if >> memory serves) >> did not write 'Lords of Chaos,' only its preface. The author of the book >> itself appears to have been Didrik Soderlind. Or is Amazon mistaken? > >No, Amazon.com's mistaken. Right you are, Ben. In my wandering, I found the site to which Jeroen referred, which had a lot more information on the book, including copious quotes... even one from Deena Weinstein, who called it "definitive." Thanks for clearing this up. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Handel, Violin Sonata in F, Andrew Manze/Richard Egarr (Harmonia Mundi) NR - Pramoedya Ananta Toer, 'Child of All Nations' P.S. I went looking for Joseph McElroy's 'Lookout Cartridge,' only to find it was out of print. Time to hit the used bookstores... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ryan Novak Subject: Re: Lords of CHOAS! Date: 26 Aug 2001 14:23:00 -0700 (PDT) >Ironically, I was planning to ask THE VERY SAME >QUESTION on the Z-list >TODAY. What are the odds? Steve, it must just be the metal stuff you'd been mentioning combined with the literary thread that's been going on here (which I normally don't like, but thought I'd use to my advantage). Or I can read minds! But anyway, knowing the real title does make finding it a lot easier doesn't it? Thanks for the help everybody. And another thing that got me on this track was hearing some of Ulver's "Themes From William Blake's the Marriage of Heaven and Hell". The music didn't immediately grab me, due to a kind of hack industrial/techno bent that took getting used to, but it was really cool to hear literate lyrics in that context. And I wondered if there weren't other groups exploring that area, whether using famous poets' words or not. I've heard people ask for "smart metal" before on this list though and I don't remember much coming up, so maybe it really is a contradiction, but I thought I'd see. Thanks, Ryan N. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: Black Sabbath (NO ZORN CONTENT!!!) Date: 26 Aug 2001 21:46:10 +0000 >From: patRice > >And - holy hell, it wasn't until then that I realized I still don't have >any recorded material by them... > >So: what would you recommend as a good starting point? > That's easy! The first 4 albums, in descending order: Black Sabbath, Paranoid, Master Of Reality, Volume 4 (plus I know lots of the fans also recommend Heaven and Hell...) np: Sussan Deyhim Turbulent _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= Subject: SABBATH Date: 26 Aug 2001 22:59:33 +0100 (BST) Are you SERIOUS?! 'Black Sabbath' 'Paranoid' 'Master Of Reality' 'Volume 4' 'Sabotage' 'Sabbath Bloody Sabbath' In that order. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeroen de Boer Subject: Another book about metal Date: 27 Aug 2001 00:11:13 +0200 Another book about heavymetal, which I found in a used-book store, is Robert Walser's 'Running With The Devil - Power, Gender, and Madness in Heavy Metal Music'. As the title implies it's more focused on regular metal (Van Halen, Iron Maiden etc.). Walser received the 1993 Irving Lowens Award for the best book on American Music for this study. Jeroen Jeroen de Boer content director Cyberslag Content Providing Damsterdiep 15 9711SG Groningen The Netherlands t +31(0)503115496 m +31 (0)624814506 f +31(0)503119447 jeroen@cyberslag.nl www.cyberslag.nl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Beardsley" Subject: Re: SABBATH Date: 26 Aug 2001 18:33:36 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- > Are you SERIOUS?! > > 'Black Sabbath' > 'Paranoid' > 'Master Of Reality' > 'Volume 4' > 'Sabotage' > 'Sabbath Bloody Sabbath' The classics. Never Say Die was their last studio album with Ozzy, it's great, very clean production. Stay away from Technical Ecstasy, a real lackluster effort. The album with Purples Ian Gillan, Never Say Die is great too. He was Jesus in the original London cast production of Jesus Christ Superstar (I think) and after his 1st gig with Deep Purple, he ended up in Black Sabbath. Hee-he.... * David Beardsley * http://biink.com * http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: Lords of CHOAS! Date: 26 Aug 2001 15:38:43 -0700 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Ryan Novak > Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 2:23 PM > I've heard people ask for "smart metal" > before on this list though and I don't remember much > coming up, so maybe it really is a contradiction, but > I thought I'd see. Everything I know about "smart metal" I got from Steve Smith, but don't blame him for my recommendations. If you're talking about so-called technical metal with intricate guitar passages and time signatures, then you should check out Meshuggah, Gorguts, Cryptopsy and, on the somewhat lighter side of hardcore, the Dillinger Escape Plan, Drowning Man, etc. If you're talking about Sabbath-like sludgecore with detuned guitars crunching down, then I would suggest Corrupted, Weakling, Sleep, Burning Witch and, on the somewhat lighter side of stoner rock, Kyuss and High On Fire. But if you're talking about lyrics -- well, I'm not so sure there. The Ulver double CD is great -- you can't go wrong with Blake -- but the music sounds like bland industrial stuff to me. Otherwise be prepared to slog through lyrics taken from medical textbooks (Carcass, Exhumed) or about traipsing through wintry woods with wolves howling (most of Ulver, Darkthrone, Emperor). That said, I do like the absurdly overripe goth fantasies of Cradle Of Filth, as close to black metal's Spinal Tap if there ever was one. Later, Ben http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/ ICQ: 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Zorn-pol Date: 26 Aug 2001 17:05:04 -0500 On Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 07:46:13PM -0000, Millie Gorgon wrote: =20 > i fully agree with the Cage quote; but it still bothers me that we have= such a limitation to metaphor. music and speech are already symbolic, w= hy must we always write in meta-symbols/metaphor? NWA said "Fuck Tha Pol= ice." Hardcore is more of a physical (non-symbolic) assault on the liste= ner than anything else. why not, at least occasionally, say what you mea= n. like in Chadbourne's protest tunes. it's limiting not to! Saying what you mean can be good. But far from necessary. You see, what we have here is not a limitation to metaphor but the rejection of a limitation to literal concepts. As is shown by, for one thing, the quote from Zorn that you yourself raise at the end of the message, he has no aversion to saying what he means (even if, as shown below, you have to understand the context of what was said). > >But, on the other hand, why would one possibly want to limit art to th= e discussion of these issues? . . . While some have sung of current event= s and power, many sang of love, of work, of family, of religion, of morta= lity, and of every aspect of human life, as well as the huge amounts of i= nstrumental musics without topics. To say that only the corner of music c= oncerning "power and current events" existed is to evince a lack of infor= mation about the real range of these musics. >=20 > precisely, folk musics are about all of those things -and what's the mi= ssing category from the RJC Series? - which certainly is about all of tho= se things you listed, EXCEPT current events/politics (and maybe work...) There are many possible topics that the series has not yet touched on. Politics is one, though it is far from alone. And, again, it may be that no one has presented an appropriate project to the series. Seeing that you find it important that the series=20 include such a work, what are you doing to either create and present=20 such a work to the series, or to locate one that might be appropriate. Complaining in a mailing list is trivially simple. How about doing something positive, in creating work to fill the gap that you perceive? > (right, the Palestinians have dirty hands cuz they no longer have acces= s to water in which to clean them..) didn't most of those 800,000 Jews e= migrate (by choice) to Israel because their homeland was founded? Hmm... you might ask the people whom I know who were involved in clandestinely airlifting Jews from Islamic countries to save their lives. And you might also check a wider range of sources of supposed history than those whose opinions you have received and repeated. > >Finally: I believe this debate really got hung up by the word "Radical= ". Had Zorn called his series "the Jewish Cultural Renaissance" (a term c= oined by Martin Buber to describe roughly what we=B4re talking about), I = don=B4t believe we=B4d have any problems, no? >=20 > generally, we wouldn't. it's not so much a hangup as that is what the = debate was (WAS!) about. i have differing expectations when considering = a Radical group and Cultural Renaissance group. the latter sounds flaky = to me (no offense to Buber, there wasn't any token/commodified multicultu= ralism around when he coined the phrase) - the quality and the content of= the RJC would have exceeded my expectations if that were its title. als= o, i'm picking on Zorn only because he has these pretensions about radica= lism while he's at a high point in his bourgeois respectability. Spy v S= py made people flee from the venue. =20 Ah, so you agree that the issue is that you have a problem with the word "Radical" that most of the other users of the language demonstrably do not share. What about "Cultural Renaissance" sounds "flaky" to you? > useless to whom? - useless to the regular person! ever read Zappa's le= cture to the American Society of University Composers about the current r= ole of the composer in the US? (it's in the Real Frank Zappa Book)- "why= do people continue to compose music, and even pretend to teach each othe= rs how to do it, when they already know the answer? Nobody gives a fuck.= " In what sense might a series of avant-garde music on a tiny label be "useful" to the hypothesized "regular person"? Look at, for example, the example that you raise above of Chadbourne's protest songs. Now, I consider myself fairly well informed as far as vari= ous musics, especially in the avant-garde (or whatever) areas in which Ch= adbourne works. Yet, even among the performances that I have attended, th= e several thousand CDs that I own, and the many others that I have heard = on the Net, the radio, and elsewhere, I have never heard any of these. So to what degree do you suppose that they are "useful" to this "regular" person, who, we might guess, doesn't have even that much access to this music than we on this list might? And, frankly, I would no more take Frank Zappa as my political mentor than I would take cooking tips from Laurie Anderson. > i revert to my former (slightly amended) statement: > could it be that the current role of art and behavior of artists is imp= overished and useless? and as incredible and beautiful as Zorn's music i= s, that, in the end, it is nothing but a a series of statements limited w= ithin a self-circumscribed community of artists that professes to be, som= ehow, radical. this is politically sanitized for musicians and polite bou= rgeois only. contrast with rural american folk and blues - there was alw= ays subject matter about power and current events integrated within other= human topics; this was how music existed long before the commodified, se= lf-referencing escapism we consume now. But I repeat my previous idea (slightly amended): Would absolutely any set of 50 works of the cited music deal with all the cited issues? If not, then it is unreasonable to expect this series of only 50 works so far to address all of them. > then again, someone who tells Vaclav Havel, Madeline Albright and Lou R= eed to SHUT THE FUCK UP! can't be all that non-political.... Ah, another context error: Zorn's telling them that was not in the least bit a political action. They were talking loudly and disturbing the music. To Zorn, the music is the most important thing. If they were three random people who were talking about cooking at the same time and at the same volume, his response would have been the same. (Compare and contrast with Lennon's "All you people in the balconies can just rattle your jewelry.") --=20 |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Aging Artists Date: 27 Aug 2001 16:01:44 -0700 > >> When I hear people run >> down someone like Sonny Rollins with a remark like "He should have quit >> after SAXOPHONE COLOSSUS" or whatever, I generally feel like kicking their >> teeth down their throat. > > Hm, perhaps, but I still think this world would have been a far better place > had James Brown stopped making music in 1974. > > I first saw him live in 1982, and he was utterly amazing. And there are a few really good JB recordings post 1974. sh - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: Re: Lords of Chaos Date: 26 Aug 2001 23:42:36 I think they are. I have this book, and these two are credited as having co-written it Well, they are two different books w/ little overlap between them in terms of subject matter. Both are very much worth reading. Weinstein's book is more on the dry/academic side, though that doesn't make it boring. Lords of Chaos is pretty disturbing, but it was a much quicker read - I had trouble putting it down once I started. It is NOT a book to read if you tend to have knee-jerk reactions or tend to make quick generalizations. But, broadly speaking, it (LoC) is a prime example of why (I think) listening to an artist's music should not be taken to mean that you endorse his or her actions or beliefs -- i.e., lots of people who say or do really stupid stuff still make very worthwhile music. Although, some of the artists -- namely Ulver (also my fave of the bands discussed in there) -- do have some intelligent things to say. WY _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: FW: LORDS OF CHAOS, BLOOD AXIS, etc Date: 26 Aug 2001 17:04:15 -0700 This was missent to me -- I think it was meant for the whole list since it begins with "Hello list members:" > -----Original Message----- > From: Falcata Galia Recordings [mailto:fgrecs@adelphia.net] > Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 12:51 PM > To: Benito Vergara > Subject: RE: LORDS OF CHAOS, BLOOD AXIS, etc > > > Hello list members; > > I can actually speak about my experiences with Moynihan because I've > corresponded with him and met him some time last year. He is hardly what > one would call a racist or extremist. He's actually quite genteel and > well-mannered, with a high interest in Western European culture. > If being a > racist means having the interest to delve into one's culture > strongly, well > I guess I can be accused of this as well (although a lot of mates would > shoot down that theory if you asked them). His coyness seems > really more to > irritate journalists, most of whom are looking for the despicable > boogey-man. By the by, the SPLC and Morris Dees aren't exactly a credible > source anymore, what with Dees having some problems for being > allegedly very > condescending to the point of racism, a charge levied at him from > some black > members of his organization. Nothing is ever purely black and > white, is it? > > Best, > > Rudy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Aging Artists Date: 26 Aug 2001 20:07:45 EDT In a message dated 8/26/01 6:59:52 PM, velaires@earthlink.net writes: << Hm, perhaps, but I still think this world would have been a far better place > had James Brown stopped making music in 1974. > > I first saw him live in 1982, and he was utterly amazing. And there are a few really good JB recordings post 1974. >> yeah, that was one of the silliest statements I've ever seen on this list. I saw him around 1986 at the Apollo, and he was awesome. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Lords of Chaos Date: 26 Aug 2001 20:37:51 -0400 William York screamed in vengeance: > Weinstein's book is > more on the dry/academic side, though that doesn't make it boring. I'm often leary of academic takes on rock music, as I've mentioned here before, although I've also read some absolutely remarkable work as well, like Southern Illinois University at Carbondale professor and chairman of the English department Kevin J. H. Dettmar's essay "Is Rock 'n' Roll Dead? Only if You Aren't Listening," published in May in The Chronicle of Higher Education. (Anyone interested in reading that essay can drop me a line.) But I would never anticipate boredom from a sociology professor who posts a photo of herself with Ronnie James Dio on her DePaul University website: http://www.depaul.edu/~dweinste/ Lots of information about the book there, as well as informative updates and trivial links. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Lords of CHOAS! Date: 26 Aug 2001 20:49:44 -0400 Benito Vergara intoned darkly: > Everything I know about "smart metal" I got from Steve Smith, but don't > blame him for my recommendations. Giving credit where credit is due, I owe a lot of what I've learned to Z-listers Jeroen de Boer and William York, who've provided me with great leads, as well as a friend of mine at the New York Times, who first told me about Meshuggah, Candiria and Dillinger Escape Plan. > If you're talking about so-called technical metal with intricate guitar > passages and time signatures, then you should check out Meshuggah, Gorguts, > Cryptopsy and, on the somewhat lighter side of hardcore, the Dillinger > Escape Plan, Drowning Man, etc. And if you're not averse to the more operatic style of metal vocals (think Judas Priest and Queensryche), you might enjoy the metal calesthenics of Spiral Architect. Since I prefer the Cookie Monster school of vocalism, this band was not for me, but many others will enjoy them. > on the somewhat lighter side of stoner rock, Kyuss and High On > Fire. And the hypnotic Kyuss spin-off Queens of the Stone Age, too. > But if you're talking about lyrics -- well, I'm not so sure there. The Ulver > double CD is great -- you can't go wrong with Blake -- but the music sounds > like bland industrial stuff to me. Otherwise be prepared to slog through > lyrics taken from medical textbooks (Carcass, Exhumed) or about traipsing > through wintry woods with wolves howling (most of Ulver, Darkthrone, > Emperor). My personal preference in lyrics has tended to run towards the hyperemotional angst of Napalm Death, Meshuggah, Converge, Dillinger Escape Plan, and the like. I think that stuff - whether it's dealing with international politics or interpersonal politics, but especially the latter - tends to fuse pretty nicely with the type of incredibly driven music that I am most drawn towards. This is by no means an exclusive taste - but when I'm confronted with the other stuff you mention, whether it's the medical mishaps or the Conan/Thor fantasies, I tend to ignore the lyrics altogether and let the voice simply hit me as another instrument. And then of course there's the homicide fantasies of Six Feet Under and the Satanic balderdash of Dimmu Borgir, about which, the less said the better. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: Re: Lords of CHAOS, etc. Date: 27 Aug 2001 01:10:51 Re: Heaven and Hell, some of the music might not be that gripping -- it has a few lulls -- but for me parts of it as as good/innovative/smart/genuinely moving as anything I have heard in the last couple of years. There aren't really track titles, but 1 and 8 on the first disc, and 1 and 3 on the second disc, specifically, blow me away every time. The vocalist, Garm (aka a whole bunch of other names: G Wolf, Chrystophrus Rygg, etc.) has a voice that some might consider pompous or overbearing, but to me he is just amazing not only in terms of his range (black metal screaming, falsetto baritone opera (?), quiet crooning, monk-like chanting, etc), but his overall presence. I do not know many other singers who could make Blake's occasionally almost literary dissertation-style poetry sound so life-or-death in terms of delivery. Yes, I'm a fan... I like pretty much everything Ulver has done (including the recent and sometimes maligned Perdition City), although each album is vastly different from the next. Only 2, or 2 and a half, of their 5 (+ 2 eps) are actually even metal. The Aquarius review of their recent EP, Silence Teaches You How to Sing, even compared parts of it to folks like Fennesz, Tarwater, and Phillip Jeck .... Directly related, since they share members, is Arcturus. They also have a poetry-set-to-music song, "Alone" (E.A Poe) that is really great. I like all of their stuff too, though mainly 'La Masquerade Infernale' (bombastic dark-carnival-opera-metal w/ electronic touches, keyboards galore, etc) and 'Disguised Masters' (reworkings of previous material w/ jungle/ambient overtones and even a totally bizarre 'gangsta rap' version of one song ...). Others in this territory (Norwegian post-black metal?) are Solefald, Dodheimsgard, Fleurety ('Department of Apocalyptic Affairs' is absolutely baffling, weirder than Arcturus but not quite as good). I must say that the "what are they THINKING?" factor often weighs in on my enjoyment of these groups, but it's not the only factor, and it doesn't mean they aren't "smart" -- there's just a totally foreign sensibility at work (to my ears). It's worth noting, though, that none of these groups has much in common w/ more "techincal" stuff like Meshuggah or Dillinger Escape Plan or death metal or anything like that. Also, this stuff (Fleurety, Arcturus, etc) may be an acquired taste since there is really nothing to compare it to ... WY _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Revue des Fossiles" Subject: Metal / Fat Jesus Date: 26 Aug 2001 18:19:33 -0700 In my book, Crom: The Cocaine Wars 1974-1989 (Pessimiser Records P-34) rates as the finest summation of Heavy Metal qua Heavy Metal since the Venom 7" on Ecstatic Peace. By the way, anyone know whatever happened to the planned Kevin Sharp/Zorn duet album "Fat Jesus"? - RdF. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ryan Novak Subject: Re: Lords of chaos Date: 26 Aug 2001 18:46:22 -0700 (PDT) >But if you're talking about lyrics -- well, I'm not >so >sure there. The Ulver >double CD is great -- you can't go wrong with Blake - >but the music sounds >like bland industrial stuff to me. Otherwise be >prepared to slog through >lyrics taken from medical textbooks (Carcass, >Exhumed) >or about traipsing >through wintry woods with wolves howling (most of >Ulver, Darkthrone, >Emperor). Hi, Yeah, I was mainly concerned with lyrics since metal guys don't seem to have any problems playing highly technical and complicated work. It's too bad though that some groups would put so much effort into that and then bury it in a song form where lyrics are usually made mandatory, and often suck. ---Ryan N. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Re: Aging Artists Date: 25 Aug 2001 21:09:55 -0500 This concept was hit home for me while watching the film Pollock the other night. He was not the hot shot once his paintings stopped being novel. Rather than others expecting continued greatness, he expected it from himself. It ultimately caused his downfall. Artists (and their audiences) need to be content with the artist becoming a master practitioner. If the craft is performed well, even with out innovation, there will be continued respect (maybe not total adoration, though). At least this is how it should be. Call me an idealist. Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: RE: Lords of CHOAS! Date: 26 Aug 2001 23:36:19 -0400 >Since I prefer the Cookie Monster school of vocalism, Well Steve do you get credit for this one? It's a perfect description of the stuff I hear on the radio all the time (but never like enough to actually buy). LT Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Documentary Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: Re: Aging Artists Date: 26 Aug 2001 23:39:19 -0400 >Rather than others expecting continued greatness, he expected it from >himself. It ultimately caused his downfall. Or alcohol, driving and a ditch did. LT - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: Lords of CHOAS! Date: 26 Aug 2001 21:38:06 -0700 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Lang Thompson > Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 8:36 PM > >Since I prefer the Cookie Monster school of vocalism, > > Well Steve do you get credit for this one? It's a perfect description of > the stuff I hear on the radio all the time (but never like enough to > actually buy). As much as I admire Steve's taste, alas, no. Type in "cookie monster vocals" and "metal" in Google and you'll see what I mean. 1,040 results! (Weird -- on page 3 I actually see a list I made for Amazon.com referenced in Google!) So what's the opposite? Geddy Lee's testicles in a vise? Later, Ben http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/ ICQ: 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeton Ademaj" Subject: SABBATH tidbit Date: 27 Aug 2001 02:22:16 -0400 hi all, re: the sabbath discussion, i suggest getting the following in the following order: Paranoid Master Of Reality Sabbath Bloody Sabbath Black Sabbath Vol. 4 Sabotage Never Say Die Heaven And Hell Born Again Also, if u can't get original vinyl or 8 trak, get the 1996-97 british cd releases from Castle Communications...they reproduce the artwork faithfully (including the original oversize poster that came with the original 'Master..."(the best Sab photo ever) as well as the raised black lettering on the cover) and more importantly, the Castle releases are *remastered from the masters*, which is critical, because the American releases sound like diptheric shit. i grew up on Sabbath and couldn't listen to them for ten years after losing my 8 trak, the cd's sounded so emasculated, none of that bite or texture that's made a generation of musicians wanna rip open spacetime. the dynamics are now better than the old 8 trak, and the burning dragon-fire guitar texture is almost what it was on analog. The remasters put Sabbath at the top of the dark-texture heap again, crank up the first minute of "Into the Void" and put it against Cradle of filth or Trey Azagthoth anytime.... peace _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Beddow Subject: RE: Lords of CHAOS! Date: 26 Aug 2001 23:38:33 -0700 (PDT) --- Lang Thompson wrote: > > >Since I prefer the Cookie Monster school of > vocalism, > > Well Steve do you get credit for this one? It's a > perfect description of > the stuff I hear on the radio all the time (but > never like enough to > actually buy). That would be pop music. Those bands have basically taken only the most easily identifiable (and imitatable) characteristics of death metal (Cookie Monster vocals, guitar tones, etc.) and have grafted them onto basic pop structures. Hooray. Someone here mentioned Weakling... I picked it up a couple of weeks ago -- a great album! Right up there with all the classic Norwegian stuff, but with a sense of humor (!), and a much wider range of influences. Hooray for Josh Smith! Lurve, Pete __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Lords of CHOAS! Date: 27 Aug 2001 02:48:15 -0400 Sez Ben apres Lang apres moi: >> >Since I prefer the Cookie Monster school of vocalism, >> >> Well Steve do you get credit for this one? It's a perfect description of >> the stuff I hear on the radio all the time (but never like enough to >> actually buy). > > As much as I admire Steve's taste, alas, no. Type in "cookie monster vocals" > and "metal" in Google and you'll see what I mean. Yup. It's true. You can find "cookie monster vocals" referenced in just about every damn metal fanzine on earth now. I'm still waiting for the day when I coin something that becomes that ubiquitous... > (Weird -- > on page 3 I actually see a list I made for Amazon.com referenced in Google!) Weirder still - when you call up said list on Amazon, the related lists on the right side of the page are almost entirely recommendations for cookbooks, even though you only recommended a single cookbook. Guess the Amazon software couldn't figure out what to make of the rest of your list. Hell, the inclusion of Cryptopsy and the Cardigans alone probably sent their poor server into a fugue state. > So what's the opposite? Geddy Lee's testicles in a vise? Like my dog really needs his very own rendition of "The Road to Bangkok"... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Zorn-pol Date: 27 Aug 2001 07:27:48 +0000

Radical= Getting to the roots of things

Radical Jewish Culture = Getting to the roots of what it means to be Jewish in perhaps a non-normative counterintuitive manner (an reconfiguration and rethinking of cultural and ethnic identity)




-----------
Interviewer: "If you had to give the world one gift, what would it be?"
Pablo Neruda: "The best gift would be the restoration of a true democracy in the United States. In other words, the elimination of regressive forces in that country who spill blood in faraway lands. A great country like the United States, divested of its political and economic arrogance, would be a grand gift for the world."
"Intellectual alienation is a creation of middle class society. What I call middle-class society is any society that becomes rigidified in predetermined forms, forbidding all evolution, all gains, all progress, all discovery. I call middle class a closed society in which life has no taste, in which the air is tainted, in which ideas and men are corrupt....I am not a prisoner of history. I should not seek there for the meaning of my destiny. I should constantly remind myself that the real "leap" consists of introducing invention into existence. In the world through which I travel, I am endlessly creating myself."--Frantz Fanon
"The idea of revolution should not disappear. It means that the idea of subversion is synonymous with the defense of liberty in music. It is what Ornette sums up saying ?Remove the caste system from sound ? It is an important idea, potentially rich and in which I find completely my way. Because we are all prisoners of mind trends like : «How are we supposed to perceive music ? ?what is the value of music in connection with our present society ?; «will everybody like it ?; ?will this record be sold by millions ?; «critics say that this record is great and that this other one is rubbish ? All these events happen before hearing one note ! And it conditions the judgment. But music is something else, something that you can never touch. Without all this propaganda, everybody could freely listen to it, according to his own experience."--Bill Laswell
"...it is easy to find a type of machine to correspond to each society, not because machines are determinant, but because they express social forms capable of engendering and using them."--Gilles Deleuze
"It is part of the mechanism of domination to forbid recognition of the suffering it produces, and there is
a straight line of development between the gospel of happiness and the construction of camps of extermination so far off in Poland that each of our own countrymen can convince himself that he cannot hear the screams of
pain."--Theodor Adorno

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: SABBATH Date: 27 Aug 2001 03:25:22 -0400 Quoth David Beardsley: > The album with Purples Ian Gillan, Never Say Die is great too. 'Never Say Die' was the last Ozzy album, as Michael pointed out. The one with Gillan was 'Born Again.' In between came the first two records with Ronnie James Dio, 'Heaven and Hell' and 'Mob Rules,' both of which are brilliant records if not really the same band stylistically as the Oz-period Sab was. He did another one a lot later that I never heard, having pretty much tuned out completely when they started to be something like Tony Iommi's version of Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow, with a rotating cast of mostly second rate singers. (Gillan, by the way, didn't go straight from Deep Purple to Sabbath. In between, I know that he had a band under his own name. I never heard them, mind you, but they always had ads in 'Smash Hits,' the trashy British pop mag I used to buy back in high school for Adam and the Ants and Spandau Ballet articles and Kim Wilde pin-ups. So did David Coverdale's Whitesnake - another Purple refugee there - when they had their power ballad hits in the late '80s, I always wondered if the girls getting all hot for Coverdale knew that he was older than their dads... geez, do I get nastier the later it gets or what?) Thanks, Jeton, for the advice about the Castle reissues. I've long wanted to pick up the classic Sab albums on disc, but I'd been leary of getting the Warner CDs, figuring they'd be just as you've described them. Glad to know there's an alternative, and Amazon's got 'em all, bless their hearts... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Zorn-pol Date: 27 Aug 2001 08:32:11 +0000 I must apologize for the excessive signature quotes on the bottom of my last post. Microsoft hotmail has been screwing up my comfort zone of late. Hopefully I've now killed the HTML as well. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: RE: metal instrumental (was LORDS...) Date: 27 Aug 2001 07:22:26 -0400 At 08:49 PM 8/26/01 -0400, Steve Smith wrote: > >...the more operatic style of metal vocals ... >...the Cookie Monster school of vocalism... These two phrases sum up pretty much everything I haven't liked about metal, and the things that make me leery about checking out some of the groups that have been discussed here. But everything I read about the instruments is making me extremely curious to hear more. Can this experienced group please recommend some good n=FCmetal releases where the vocals are kept at a minimum? -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Beardsley" Subject: Re: SABBATH Date: 27 Aug 2001 07:48:18 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- > Quoth David Beardsley: > > > The album with Purples Ian Gillan, Never Say Die is great too. > > 'Never Say Die' was the last Ozzy album, as Michael pointed out. Actually he didn't. If you read all that I wrote, it's kind of obvious I made a typo. > The one > with Gillan was 'Born Again.' In between came the first two records with > Ronnie James Dio, 'Heaven and Hell' and 'Mob Rules,' both of which are > brilliant records if not really the same band stylistically as the Oz-period > Sab was. There was a doulble live album before Born Again too. > He did another one a lot later that I never heard, having pretty > much tuned out completely when they started to be something like Tony > Iommi's version of Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow, with a rotating cast of > mostly second rate singers. > > (Gillan, by the way, didn't go straight from Deep Purple to Sabbath. I didn't say he did. His solo bands were not very memorable. > Thanks, Jeton, for the advice about the Castle reissues The reissues are great. * David Beardsley * http://biink.com * http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: SABBATH Date: 27 Aug 2001 07:52:43 EDT In a message dated 8/27/01 7:42:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, db@biink.com writes: > > The one > > with Gillan was 'Born Again.' In between came the first two records with > > Ronnie James Dio, 'Heaven and Hell' and 'Mob Rules,' both of which are > > brilliant records if not really the same band stylistically as the > Oz-period > > Sab was. > > There was a doulble live album before Born Again too. This is "Live Evil," featuring the Ronnie James Dio line up. The mixing of this album led to the disintegration of the line up, Dio accusing Iommi of trying to turn down the vocals, Iommi claiming that Dio went into the studio after hours to turn them back up. Tom - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Re: Aging Artists Date: 26 Aug 2001 09:36:34 -0500 "Or alcohol, driving and a ditch did" You know what I meant... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grey ElkGel Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #549 Date: 27 Aug 2001 07:44:11 -0700 (PDT) --- JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > which is why I was careful to add the word "club" > rather than just saying "NYC debut", my nitpicking > friend. :) oops! i completely missed the "club" part - guess i'm not such a nitpicker after all. .greg. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: THANKS (was: Black Sabbath) Date: 27 Aug 2001 16:50:04 +0200 Hi. Thanks a lot to all of you who replied to my request; you've been very helpful! Decided to order "Black Sabbath" and "Vol. 4" for a start. patRice np: Body Count, Body Count nr.: Mel Cheren, My Life & The Paradise Garage - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: SABBATH Date: 27 Aug 2001 11:00:08 -0400 David Beardsley sed: >> 'Never Say Die' was the last Ozzy album, as Michael pointed out. > >Actually he didn't. If you read all that I wrote, it's kind of obvious I >made a typo. I did read all you wrote, and it's kind of obvious I didn't understand that there was a typo - clearly something got lost in the formatting on this reader's end. My apologies for the misunderstanding, naturally. >There was a doulble live album before Born Again too. Right: the one that put an end to that lineup, thanks to the bickering between Dio and Iommi. >> (Gillan, by the way, didn't go straight from Deep Purple to Sabbath. > >I didn't say he did. His solo bands were not very memorable. No, you didn't and no, they weren't (although Metal Blade would seem to have disagreed, having reissued damn near all of them - uggh). The point of the interjection was to assert my self-deprecating wit - and thereby reaffirm my monstrous self-absorption - with the personal aside about Adam Ant and Kim Wilde, not to indicate that you had missed something. Again, my apologies for the confusion. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= Subject: MICHAEL MOYNIHAN Date: 27 Aug 2001 20:02:18 +0100 (BST) Found it. http://www.wweek.com/html/leada081600.html ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Iain Kitt" Subject: Napalm Death Date: 27 Aug 2001 20:16:52 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0131_01C12F35.35D7ECC0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0132_01C12F35.35D7ECC0" ------=_NextPart_001_0132_01C12F35.35D7ECC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankI'm not sure what category of metal they fall into but Napalm Death = are appearing locally in a few weeks time. What's the Zorn- list view? = Are they worth going to see? Iain Kitt ------=_NextPart_001_0132_01C12F35.35D7ECC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
I'm not sure what category of metal they fall into but Napalm Death = are=20 appearing locally in a few weeks time. What's the Zorn- list view? Are = they=20 worth going to see?
 
Iain Kitt

 

------=_NextPart_001_0132_01C12F35.35D7ECC0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0131_01C12F35.35D7ECC0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <013001c12f2c$d402bbe0$LocalHost@iainkitt> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0131_01C12F35.35D7ECC0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?A?= Subject: RE: Lords of CHOAS! Date: 27 Aug 2001 23:11:04 -0500 (CDT) Steve escribió: >And if you're not averse to the more operatic style of metal vocals (think >Judas Priest and Queensryche), you might enjoy the metal calesthenics of >Spiral Architect. Since I prefer the Cookie Monster school of vocalism, >this band was not for me, but many others will enjoy them. I have their "A Sceptic's Universe" CD, and I found it to be too much of a Watchtower clone. The singer tends to be quite annoying as well, sounding like Paul Stanley in some sections, and the production/mix sounds uncannily similar to Cynic's "Focus"... still, it's much better than what all these not-so-minor criticisms make it sound like. My metal recommendations for the zorn-ophiles (meaning, slim chance of Cannibal Corpse-esque garbage in here): Tormentor - Recipe Ferrum (Avantgarde Records, 2000) Amorphis - Elegy (Relapse Records, 1996) Ved Buens Ende - Written in Waters (Misanthropy, 1995) Brutal Truth - Sounds of the Animal Kingdom (Relapse, 1997) Burzum - Filosofem (Misanthropy, 1996) Cynic - Focus (Roadrunner, 1993) Meshuggah - Chaosphere (Nuclear Blast, 1998) Dillinger Escape Plan - Calculating Infinity (Relapse, 1999) Darkthrone - Transilvanian Hunger (Peaceville, 1994) S.O.D. - Everything! _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Obtenga su dirección de correo-e gratis @yahoo.com en http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Trisha Brown/Dave Douglas review ? Date: 28 Aug 2001 09:45:53 +0200 Hi Z-listers, The Trisha Brown Company and Dave Douglas will be dancing and playing in France in October, not so far from my place. But, since it is still a few hundred kilometers from where I live and since I have never been to a dance show till now, I would have liked to have your opinions on this show: Anyone has seen ? Is it worth the price of the ticket ? How is the music ? How is the dancing ? For those who are around here, the french dates are: October 13: Reims; October 16-18: Lyon ; October 20: Valence; October 23-24: Grenoble ; October 27: Annecy and October 30: Chambery (France). And then the company will be in Spain for a few shows. Thanks. Pascal. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Re: Trisha Brown/Dave Douglas review ? Date: 28 Aug 2001 11:22:15 +0200 Salut Pascal. I can't comment about the Brown/Douglas happening since I haven't seen it. But: a few years ago, while I was living in London, a New York dance company - very famous, very highly regarded in dance circles, just can't recall their name - had a performance at the Royal Albert Hall, dancing to parts of Naked City's Absinthe, later to a live performance by the Arto Lindsay band (feat. Marc Ribot). I'm not into dance performances at all, but nevertheless decided to go to the show just to see Lindsay & Ribot. It did not convert me to dance, but I must admit that I did enjoy the whole show very much - it was great to see the dancing to music I like so much, and it did seem to somehow make sense... Hope this little story helps... patRice np: Eminem, Marshal Mathers LP nr: Mel Cheren, My Life & The Paradise Garage Pascal Cortes wrote: > Hi Z-listers, > The Trisha Brown Company and Dave Douglas will be dancing and playing in > France in October, not so far from my place. > But, since it is still a few hundred kilometers from where I live and since > I have never been to a dance show till now, I would have liked to have your > opinions on this show: Anyone has seen ? Is it worth the price of the > ticket ? How is the music ? How is the dancing ? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: Fwd: Trisha Brown/Dave Douglas review ? Date: 28 Aug 2001 13:40:39 +0200 Ho hoooooo... so maybe I was wrong.... But anyway, you should check: I first saw the Lyon dates on Dave's website, true. And then went to Trisha Brown's site (http://www.trishabrowncompany.org/performance%20schedule.htm) and found the other dates (November 3 Gij=F3n, Spain Teatro Jouellanos, November 6 Vigo, Spain Teatro Garc=EDa Barb=F3n, November 8 La Coru=F1a, Spa= in, November 9 Santiago, Spain).=20 But it's true they don't make it clear if Dave Douglas is part of the trip.... Maybe you can e-mail the Company (address on their website). Pascal. At 12:45 28/08/01 +0200, Efr=E9n wrote: > >> And then the company will be in Spain for a few >> shows. >That's great news for me Pascal. I'm in Barcelona. >Where can I check the Spanish dates of the tour?. I >visited the Douglas website but didn't see them. > >Thanks, > >Efr=E9n =20 > >_______________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Messenger: Comunicaci=F3n instant=E1nea gratis con tu gente - >http://messenger.yahoo.es > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: Avant garde classics on Mappings, week of August 28, 2001 Date: 28 Aug 2001 07:34:00 -0500 Hi y'all, This week on Mappings , you'll hear recently reconstructed performances of classic avant garde works by Robert Ashley, Larry Austin, Hugo Ball, Johanna M Beyer, George Cacioppo, Cornelius Cardew, Phillip Corner, Malcolm Goldstein, Dick Higgins, Toshi Ichiyanagi, Tomas Marco, Erik Satie, James Tenney, Tristan Tzara, Robert Wilson, Christian Wolff. The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0800 GMT) and will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program (featuring music for string quartet by Franghiz Ali-Zadeh, John Cage, Henry Cowell, Ruth Crawford Seeger, Tina Davidson, Fred Frith, Heinz Holliger, Eleanor Hovda, Gyorgy Ligeti, Ingram Marshall, Conlon Nancarrow, Phill Niblock, Bob Ostertag, John Oswald, Steve Reich, Kaija Saariaho, Giaconto Scelsi, Lois V Vierk, and Julia Wolfe) is still available in the Mappings archive , where you can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998. Hope you tune in to the program. Bests, Herb - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= Subject: Re: Napalm Death Date: 28 Aug 2001 14:00:58 +0100 (BST) Depending on how much the entrance fee is, there're definitely worth going to see. Brutal, etc. I lost interest in them years ago now, but some of my friend's have been with them all the way. Their last few releases have been the best things they've done since the early days, of 'Scum', 'From Enslavement to Obliteration', etc. Those titles and a couple more are the only NAPALM DEATH records I care about and would recommend. Being a NAPALM DEATH obsessive in the late 80's was part of how I got first got into JOHN ZORN. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Re: Radical Zorn Date: 28 Aug 2001 11:55:19 +0200 That was NOT before the masada ST CD - it was '99 warsaw summer jazz days. And if you listen closely, you'll hear my reponse to JZ's query - 'wypierdalac', the only correct one (most people suggested 'speirdalac', which is more of a 'fuck off')... BTW the show was great, and i have all three parts on superb quality recordings on CD (the shows were broadcasted on the radio, but i managed to get copies of original digital recordings). Any trades? (NO MONEY, in fact, i'd be able to copy it for free if someone needs it badly and don't have any boots for trade) ----- Original Message ----- > All this talk reminds me of an early (pre-CD) recording of a Masada > String Trio(Friedlander, Feldman and Cohen) concert that I got from the > ol' Napster(I know, I know, JZ wouldn't approve - awfully tasty, > though...). > Just before they began, after introducing the musicians, John Z banished > the knot of photographers from the front of the stage("I don't care who > you are, or what color your hair is dyed."), asking the audience how to > say "Get the fuck out" in Polish - this was Warsaw. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Re: Black Sabbath (NO ZORN CONTENT!!!) Date: 28 Aug 2001 12:17:06 +0200 funny question... I'm not a sabs fan anymore, but i used to listen to losads of claasic hard rock some tim ago (i stopped 6 years ago) and was quite fond of them (although they never beat my favourite Deep Purple). So: the first four (BS, paranoid, Mastewr of reality are all classics. Thre's also a live form after vol 4, which is quite OK, very punk rock. But parts of it are on studio as bonus tracks, so you can check out the live by buing the studio stuff. I'd recommend paranoid, and master of reality - they're really great, but the other two are also very good. Sabbath bloody sabbath has a gorgeous title tune, but is more 'art rock ' on the whole. OK. Later albums w. Ozzy are ok, but you can live without them for a moment. As for the later vocs, the albums with Dio and Gillan are OK. As for dio, i recommend 'live evil' (although the miles's version is better ;-)), where you get all the callsics of both ozzy's and dio period sung by dio. if i remeber correctly, you were an Iron Maiden fan - you'll like that one. The gillan album ('born again') is IMO great, a comeback to a darker sound. Do NOT buy later albums. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Re: SABBATH Date: 28 Aug 2001 15:24:47 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- > The album with Purples Ian Gillan, Never Say Die is great too. He was Jesus > in the original > London cast production of Jesus Christ Superstar (I think) and after his > 1st gig with Deep Purple, he ended up in Black Sabbath. Hee-he.... Geez... don't you know that it's a bad thing to lie? ;-) Never say die featured Ozzy, gillan's album is 'born again' - very good, gillan has a great voice, very natural. But he played MUCH MORE then a single gig with DP (4 studio albums plus legendary 'made in japan' live, various live albums released later 70 - 73, then 84 - 89 & 94 - now) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Re: SABBATH Date: 28 Aug 2001 15:41:16 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- > 'Never Say Die' was the last Ozzy album, as Michael pointed out. The one > with Gillan was 'Born Again.' In between came the first two records with > Ronnie James Dio, 'Heaven and Hell' and 'Mob Rules,' both of which are > brilliant records if not really the same band stylistically as the Oz-period > Sab was. Exactly. As i said, the live evil is the best thing of the first dio period IMO. >He did another one a lot later that I never heard, having pretty > much tuned out completely when they started to be something like Tony > Iommi's version of Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow, with a rotating cast of > mostly second rate singers. It was in early '90s, can't remember album's title, but it was WEAK. > (Gillan, by the way, didn't go straight from Deep Purple to Sabbath. In > between, I know that he had a band under his own name. I never heard them, > mind you, but they always had ads in 'Smash Hits,' the trashy British pop He had two different bands in between leaving purple and joining BS. first he had a jazz-rock outfit called Ian Gillan Band, they had three studio albums and a live one, live at the budokan. The interesting thing is that the tune scarbus had a very similiar melodic line to gillan sabs tune 'disturbing the priest' (if memeory serves, i'm sure there was a tune with that very melody on that album, i'm not sure which one it was). A year latrer i discovred that the meoldy was from Crimson's hit '21st century schiziod man'. The second band was more of a pop metal thing, called Gillan. In the early '90s he played under 'ian gillan' brand > Thanks, Jeton, for the advice about the Castle reissues. I've long wanted > to pick up the classic Sab albums on disc, but I'd been leary of getting the > Warner CDs, figuring they'd be just as you've described them. Did i miss anything? Marcin Gokieli - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ajda Snyder" Subject: Seattle Recommendations (No Zorn content) Date: 28 Aug 2001 09:50:21 -0400 Hullo, I'm going to Seattle next week and I would be so grateful if anyone has suggestions on CD shops/clubs/events/restaurants/cafes. You guys helped out with Paris so much, I didn't even get to all the places... Please respond privately. Thanks ever so much, Ajda the Turkish Queen http://mp3.com/turkishqueen http://wmbr.mit.edu/schedesc.html#binge http://drawbridge.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Arto Lindsay "Ecomixes" Date: 28 Aug 2001 17:18:14 +0200 Anyone heard this one ? I've just discovered it on a big online store (no sound samples). It's an album featuring remixes of Lindsay's wonderful "Prize" as well as four live tracks (Pode Ficar, Ex Preguica, Interior Life, and Unsure). It's a japanese import, so, still expensive, but, if it's good.... Any opinions ? Pascal. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Revue des Fossiles" Subject: Re: Black Sabbath (NO ZORN CONTENT!!!) Date: 28 Aug 2001 08:26:09 -0700 >Do NOT buy later albums. What,and miss out on ICE-T's classic contribution to straight to the cut out bin "Forbidden" or the teleprompter reading antics of "Reunion?" Gee . . . I even have a soft spot for the Wayne World's single sporting Dio line-up reunion "Dehumanizer," everyone here seems to dismiss. - RdF. NP. Philip Corner. Oracle, an electronic cantata on images of war: strike week version. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Napalm Death recommendations? Date: 28 Aug 2001 11:26:51 EDT Where should I start with ND? Thanks, Tom ______________________________________________________________________ Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately, and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors Subject: serge recs Date: 28 Aug 2001 11:35:43 -0400 hello, I am interested in learning more about serge gainsbourg, if you have some suggestions please email me privately. Thank you!! J% _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Black Sabbath (NO ZORN CONTENT!!!) Date: 28 Aug 2001 09:54:17 -0500 On Tue, Aug 28, 2001 at 08:26:09AM -0700, Revue des Fossiles wrote: > NP. Philip Corner. Oracle, an electronic cantata on images of war: strike > week version. Is that on CD? -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Napalm Death recommendations? Date: 28 Aug 2001 12:44:30 -0400 1. From Enslavement to Obliteration The "classic" Lee Dorrian/Bill Steer/Shane Embury/Mick Harris lineup, though as any hardcore fan can tell you, by then there was not one single original band member left - and it was their second album! True! This is the source of the gutteral nanosecond-long blasts that so enticed Zorn circa 'Spy Vs. Spy' and 'Torture Garden,' and provides a dandy mix of impulses - Embury and Harris don't stray so far from the band's punk roots coming out of bands like Crass, but Dorrian was influenced by proto-doom metal and Steer always did have a bit of the stoner guitar hero in him. Still, classic. 2. Utopia Banished The first great album by the second "classic" lineup in my opinion - the lineup that's still together. This is a lot more like standard death metal, since that's where four-fifths of the band came from (only Embury is left from the earlier lineup at this point). Mark "Barney" Greenaway is one of the great, great cookie monsters and the lyrics are some serious tortured emo. He's the only straightedge member of the band, and I think that's pretty clear in his overall style. Danny Herrera is one of the great, great grindcore/death metal drummers. 3. Enemy of the Music Business The new one from the lineup of number two. Following 'Utopia Banished,' lots of things happened: ND found themselves on Columbia Records (through a misguided and ill-fated licensing deal), made some slightly more experimental records (slower tempos, clean vocals), lost their singer (Barney quit and went to Extreme Noise Terror, whose Phil Vane replaced Barney - then before they recorded they sacked Vane and asked Barney to come back), and left their label. There's probably one amazing album's worth of material spread across the four post-'Utopia' albums, and each is better than its predecessor. But jump straight to this one instead... they tone down the experimentation in favor of more straightforward slam-bang. Plus it's the best they've ever been recorded... Danny's snare is an crisp as Roy Haynes's, and sometimes the wall of downtuned guitars sound just like an unholy cross between Phil Spector and Glenn Branca, if I listen real loud on headphones. Oh, so beautiful. If you dug this stuff, go for broke. And consider the 'Complete BBC Sessions' if you want to hear this stuff live. And if you dig Crass-style punk, that's what a lot of the early half of 'Scum' (the first album recorded with two different lineups) sound like. That one has more or less original guitarist Justin Broadrick (Godflesh) on guitar and Nik Bullen (ex-Scorn) on bass. The other half is Dorrian, Steer, and bassist Jim Whitely. I also strongly recommend ND live, for anyone who is genuinely inclined toward this music - they're tight and pummelling, and Barney is one of the most weirdly wired frontmen I've ever seen - it's like there's a live wire running up his leg or something. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com hallucinatin' after pulling an all-nighter for work... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Revue des Fossiles" Subject: Philip Corner Date: 28 Aug 2001 09:40:24 -0700 > > NP. Philip Corner. Oracle, an electronic cantata on images of war: >strike > > week version. > >Is that on CD? > Yes. Philip Corner: On Tape from the Judson Days (Alga Marghen Plana-C 4NMN.019) Check the usual mailorder sources - Anomalous, FE, et. al. Enjoy! - RdF. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= Subject: Re: Napalm Death recommendations? Date: 28 Aug 2001 18:19:50 +0100 (BST) >Where should I start with ND? Classic early line up records in chronological order. 'Scum' LP 'From Enslavement To Obliteration' LP 'Peel Sessions' MLP 'Mentally Murdered' MLP All are available on CD. Also recommended is the 7" that came with initial copys of 'FETO' and the split 7" flexi with S.O.B. Both records are hard to find, but the tracks have been reissued on CD. If all else fails, plenty of bootlegs exist. Also try to get 'Hatred Surge' demo. It's available on punk tape label lists as a bootleg along with some rehearsal tracks, etc. Otherwise, there's plenty of traders who have it. Great tape. It's suprisingly slower that what you'd expect. A hint of what was to come... And to confuse this even more these 'semi-official' bootlegs are great also, albeit hard to find. 'Extremity Retains' LP 'The Grindcrusher Tour' LP As for recent NAPALM DEATH, I'd only recommend 'Enemy Of the Music Business' LP. 'Utopia Banished' is good, I suppose, it's alot better than 'Harmony Corruption' anyway, but I was starting to lose interest then, so... Seriously, for me, you can't go wrong with any of the others. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: Black Sabbath (NO ZORN CONTENT!!!) Date: 28 Aug 2001 13:35:03 -0400 What about the OZZY release "Bark at the Moon"? Isn't this a live-all BS- stuff album? Don't know the band that plays in it (I think it's after Randy Rhoads death). Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. COCTEAU TWINS: head over heels / sunburst and snowblind - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MorMovies@aol.com Subject: Napalm video Date: 28 Aug 2001 13:33:29 EDT I recently picked up Napalm Death's LIVE CORRUPTION on Earache video. This is a powerful live show taped at Salisbury Arts Centre, England on June 30, 1990 and features the line-up of Mick Harris, Mark "Barney" Greenway, Shane Embury, Jesse Pintado and Mitch Harris. Short interviews with the band members are interspersed between the live performance. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: Black Sabbath (NO ZORN CONTENT!!!) Date: 28 Aug 2001 13:37:38 EDT In a message dated 8/28/01 1:30:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nilugo@usa.net writes: > What about the OZZY release "Bark at the Moon"? Isn't this a live-all BS- > stuff album? Don't know the band that plays in it (I think it's after Randy > Rhoads death). > > Neil H. Enet "Bark At The Moon" came after Randy Rhodes died. I saw this tour at the old Boston Garden, with Motley Crue and Waysted opening. Ozzy was deep in the fat drunk phase of his career. Jake E. Lee provided capable guitar. It's a weak album compared to "Blizzard of Ozz" and "Diary of A Madman," IMHO. In fact, I'd rate BOO and DOAM much higher than Sabbath's "Never Say Die" or "Technical Ecstacy." Tom ______________________________________________________________________ Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately, and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Napalm Death recommendations? Date: 28 Aug 2001 13:40:32 -0400 I remember this as being a pretty decent tape, but I still prefer the later version of the band with Danny Herrera, who ain't the musical visionary that Mick Harris is, but who is certainly the more precise timekeeper, which is critical to their saw-tooth cog music. I got rid of the VHS a long, long time ago when I purged a bunch of prerecorded videos. But if they get around to issuing it on DVD, I'll be likely to pony up. Speaking of Earache DVD, anyone seen the new Carcass disc yet? Two live sets plus music videos is what I've heard about it, but I've never found it in stores locally - only Cathedral, which frankly don't do much for me. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Bartok, Concerto for Orchestra - Mvt V, Boston/Koussevitsky (BSO) -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 1:32 PM I recently picked up Napalm Death's LIVE CORRUPTION on Earache video. This is a powerful live show taped at Salisbury Arts Centre, England on June 30, 1990 and features the line-up of Mick Harris, Mark "Barney" Greenway, Shane Embury, Jesse Pintado and Mitch Harris. Short interviews with the band members are interspersed between the live performance. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: Black Sabbath (NO ZORN CONTENT!!!) Date: 28 Aug 2001 13:52:58 EDT In a message dated 8/28/01 1:38:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Samerivertwice@aol.com writes: > "Bark At The Moon" came after Randy Rhodes died. I saw this tour at the old > Boston Garden, with Motley Crue and Waysted opening. Ozzy was deep in the > fat drunk phase of his career. Jake E. Lee provided capable guitar. It's a > > weak album compared to "Blizzard of Ozz" and "Diary of A Madman," IMHO. In > fact, I'd rate BOO and DOAM much higher than Sabbath's "Never Say Die" or > "Technical Ecstacy." > > Tom I should have mentioned that "Bark At The Moon" was a studio album. Off the top of my head I can't remember the album line up beyond Jake E. Lee on guitar, but the show I saw featured Carmine Appice on drums. The bass player escapes my memory. The live Ozzy album that was released immediately following Rhodes' death was "Speak of the Devil," which featured Brad Gillis (of Night Ranger fame) on guitar, Rudy Sarzo (Quiet Riot) on bass, and Tommy Aldridge (Black Oak Arkansas) on drums. It's actually a pretty good album of Sabbath material. Having junior high flashbacks, Tom P.S. Thanks for all the great Napalm Death recommendations! I'm off to CDNow.... ______________________________________________________________________ Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately, and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Black Sabbath (NO ZORN CONTENT!!!) Date: 28 Aug 2001 13:58:52 -0400 Tom! Before you go and click "order," check the prices at Earache.com. I haven't shopped online there, but I know that their mail-order prices are vastly lower than anywhere else I've seen - usually $11 postpaid per disc, if memory serves. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Steven Mackey, Tuck and Roll, New World Sym/Tilson Thomas (RCA) -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Samerivertwice@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 1:53 PM P.S. Thanks for all the great Napalm Death recommendations! I'm off to CDNow.... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Beardsley" Subject: Re: SABBATH Date: 28 Aug 2001 14:14:04 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Beardsley" > > > > The album with Purples Ian Gillan, Never Say Die is great too. He was > Jesus > > in the original > > London cast production of Jesus Christ Superstar (I think) and after his > > 1st gig with Deep Purple, he ended up in Black Sabbath. Hee-he.... > > Geez... > don't you know that it's a bad thing to lie? ;-) > Never say die featured Ozzy, gillan's album is 'born again' - very good, > gillan has a great voice, very natural. That's right - fixate on the typo and ignore what I wrote in the previous paragraph. I mistakenly wrote Never Say Die instead of Born Again. * David Beardsley * http://biink.com * http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Beardsley" Subject: Re: Black Sabbath (NO ZORN CONTENT!!!) Date: 28 Aug 2001 14:17:20 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- > >Do NOT buy later albums. > > What,and miss out on ICE-T's classic contribution to straight to the cut out > bin "Forbidden" or the teleprompter reading antics of "Reunion?" Gee . . . > I even have a soft spot for the Wayne World's single sporting Dio line-up > reunion "Dehumanizer," everyone here seems to dismiss. I wouldn't dismiss Dehumanizer, I did forget it though. Another great Sabbath album. * David Beardsley * http://biink.com * http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn_Lea@avid.com Subject: Re: serge recs Date: 28 Aug 2001 14:13:27 -0400 FWIW, there was an article in the Sunday NYTimes about him: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/26/arts/26ROSE.html?searchpv=day02 Glenn Lea - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: CARCASS DVD (Was: ND recommendations?) Date: 28 Aug 2001 14:32:49 -0400 >Speaking of Earache DVD, anyone seen the new Carcass disc >yet? Two live >sets plus music videos is what I've heard about it, but >I've never found it >in stores locally - only Cathedral, which frankly don't do >much for me. --------------- I have this DVD. I have to admit that I was a huge CARCASS fan some years ago, then I lost interest, but recently I started to listen to it again. The DVD is not that great IMO. The promotional videos are really bad, maybe the two big-budget ones, "Heartwork and No Love Lost", are OK, but not great. the two live shows are better, one from the NECROTICISM period (GODS OF GRIND tour) and another one from the SYMPHONIES album (GRINDCRUSHER tour). I think the one that's more interesting is the GRINDCRUSHER one, where you can see that the band is still in a more rough kind of playing ... although nobody moves, they just stay where they are and play through 6 or 7 songs. It's also pretty good to see the vocal interaction between Jeff Walker and Bill Steer, where Jeff has two mics with different effects. If you're a big CARCASS fan, get it ... since I lost a lot of interest in the band, I think I can live without it. It's gonna be some time before I see it again. Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. Depeche Mode - In Your Room (single) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kim, Pei-Yi" Subject: -- Chicago Recommendations (NZC) -- Date: 28 Aug 2001 14:31:56 -0400 Dear music lovers, I will be headed to the Windy City of Chicago for the first time ever this weekend starting Thursday night. Recommendations for good live music in the general area is appreciated. I know that there is a Jazzfest in town for the weekend and would love any suggestions on which shows I should make my best attempts in hearing. Please respond to peiyi_kim@merck.com Thanks, Pei-Yi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Westergaard" Subject: RE: -- Chicago Recommendations (NZC) -- Date: 28 Aug 2001 14:42:06 -0400 Fred Anderson has a cool club called the Velvet Lounge on South Indiana. There's also the Empty Bottle on Western, home to VAndermark 5's weekly tuesday gigs. Be sure to stop by Jazz record Mart on 444 N. Wabash- it's a jazz lover's mecca. you can also probably get a copy of the Reader there; it's the best guide to what's going on in the city, and it's free. have fun. sean -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Kim, Pei-Yi Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 2:32 PM Dear music lovers, I will be headed to the Windy City of Chicago for the first time ever this weekend starting Thursday night. Recommendations for good live music in the general area is appreciated. I know that there is a Jazzfest in town for the weekend and would love any suggestions on which shows I should make my best attempts in hearing. Please respond to peiyi_kim@merck.com Thanks, Pei-Yi - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Sir Duke (Bill Ware, Marc Ribot) upcoming in KFR? Date: 28 Aug 2001 12:07:26 -0700 There is mention of a set of upcoming Fall releases on the KF web site: Coming This Fall Mario Pavone Octet Hasidic New Wave Bill Ware's Vibes Bruknaum Sir Duke: Bill Ware, Marc Ribot Any idea of what the "Sir Duke" project is? Patrice. NP: ORCHESTRAL WORKS VOL. 4: Witold Lutoslawski (Naxos) NR: THE DEVILS OF LOUDUN: Huxley - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= Subject: BLACK SABBATH live, NAPALM DEATH video, etc Date: 28 Aug 2001 22:16:23 +0100 (BST) I'm wondering, did anyone else go to the BLACK SABBATH reunion gigs at the Birmingham NEC in Dec 1997? I went to the 2nd night, and to say the least, it was very surreal. Shame about the support though, it was FEAR FACTORY! The NAPALM DEATH 'Live Corruption' video is essential, as it any earlier video footage. There's always stuff on trade lists, etc. It's fairly easy to get hold of. Also worth a mention is the NAPALM DEATH feature on DEF II : SNUB TV. A very much missed programme. Any one else remember this? And the HEAVY METAL HEAVEN programme that also featured SLAYER. Both featured great interviews with the band. Again, these turn up on trade lists... ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Ricardo=20Campillo?= Subject: question Date: 28 Aug 2001 23:17:40 +0200 (CEST) I want to know if somedy lives in spain ,for interchange material about Zorn.Here,sometimes are very difficult to find things of Zorn.And more difficult to see good shows.Except this thursday: Schlippenbach Trio in my city¡¡¡ Another question:LPs recommendables of Boredoms? Thanks _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger: Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente - http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= Subject: SWANS video, SONIC YOUTH and ZORN on UK TV Date: 28 Aug 2001 22:23:00 +0100 (BST) Anyone got any early (up to and including 1986) SWANS video footage? If so, I'd be interested in buying or if something can be arranged, trading. Anyone else seen THE SOUTH BANK SHOW from early 1989 that had quite lengthy features on SONIC YOUTH and JOHN ZORN? Great programme, or at least that episode was! I'm in the UK, so the Americanos, etc on here probably haven't heard of it... ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Cocteau Twins (was: Black Sabbath (NO ZORN CONTENT!!!)) Date: 28 Aug 2001 23:35:27 +0200 "Neil H. Enet" wrote: > Neil H. Enet > ------------ > > NP. COCTEAU TWINS: head over heels / sunburst and snowblind > Neil. Great to see someone else on the list being into this band! patRice np: Tabla Beat Science, Tala Matrix (got this in the mail today - and so far quite like it) nr: Tao Tao Liu Sanders, Dragons Gods & Spirits From Chinese Mythology - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= Subject: BOREDOMS recommendations, etc Date: 28 Aug 2001 22:35:27 +0100 (BST) BOREDOMS recommedations. Again, it's probably best to start at the beginning in chronological order. This way you can see how the band evolved and developed into what they've become today. My personal favourites are 'Onanie Bomb Meets The Sex Pistols' and 'Soul Discharge'. However, I love every BOREDOMS record. For a BOREDOMS discography, go to: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/4207/Boredoms/boredisc.htm Also highly recommended are Eye's HANATARASH and UFO OR DIE. For more information on these and many other BOREDOMS related side project, etc, go to: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/4207/Boredoms/boreside.htm ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: Cocteau Twins (NO ZORN CONTENT!!!) Date: 28 Aug 2001 17:59:44 -0400 >Great to see someone else on the list being into this band! (COCTEAU TWINS) patRice Good that you mention this, because I don't own very much of them, but I would like to go deeper into their catalog. I own the following releases: *GARLANDS *HEAD OVER HEELS (Bonus: SUNBURST AND SNOWBLIND EP) Do all of these albums come with the EP or is just somekind of special edition (My CD is french) *BLUE BELL KNOLL *HEAVEN OR LAS VEGAS *TWINLIGHTS EP I understand that the BBC collection is excellent, I would like to hear our opinions on this band releases. Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. Depeche Mode - Songs of Faith and Devotion Live - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: SWANS video, SONIC YOUTH and ZORN on UK TV Date: 29 Aug 2001 14:57:16 -0700 > > Anyone got any early (up to and including 1986) SWANS > video footage? If so, I'd be interested in buying or > if something can be arranged, trading. > > Anyone else seen THE SOUTH BANK SHOW from early 1989 > that had quite lengthy features on SONIC YOUTH and > JOHN ZORN? Great programme, or at least that episode > was! I'm in the UK, so the Americanos, etc on here > probably haven't heard of it... > Is this the same stuff that wound up in the fiilm PUT SOME BLOOD IN THE MUSIC? skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Cocteau Twins (NO ZORN CONTENT!!!) Date: 28 Aug 2001 17:59:45 -0400 'Treasure' is amazing. My first and best loved - a record that made me stop what I was doing in a record store and immediately go ask what was playing, then leave the store with it. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Kaija Saariaho, Graal Theatre, Gidon Kremer, BBC Sym/Salonen (Sony) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= Subject: Re: SWANS video, SONIC YOUTH and ZORN on UK TV Date: 28 Aug 2001 23:07:36 +0100 (BST) >Is this the same stuff that wound up in the film >PUT SOME BLOOD IN THE MUSIC? Actually, yes it is. Is there more on SY and JZ in the actual film? What/who else is featured in the film? Is it available from anywhere? ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins (NO ZORN CONTENT!!!) Date: 28 Aug 2001 15:10:27 -0700 On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:59:45 -0400 "Steve Smith" wrote: > > 'Treasure' is amazing. My first and best loved - a record that made me stop > what I was doing in a record store and immediately go ask what was playing, > then leave the store with it. I second it. "Lorelei" is one of the the most dreamy song (?) ever written! You might tried to get also the record with "Carolyn's Fingers": 100% guaranteed ear candy. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Samuel Quentin" Subject: RE: Lords of CHOAS! Date: 28 Aug 2001 21:49:39 -0500 hi, I noticed you mentioned Sleep. Do you (or anybody) know maybe a website where i could obtain an album by them? especially 'Jerusalem'. and how does Jerusalem compare with their other albums? thanks, Samuel If you're talking about Sabbath-like sludgecore with detuned guitars crunching down, then I would suggest Corrupted, Weakling, Sleep, Burning Witch and, on the somewhat lighter side of stoner rock, Kyuss and High On Fire. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: RE: Lords of CHAOS! Date: 28 Aug 2001 23:00:20 -0400 >That would be pop music. Those bands have basically >taken only the most easily identifiable (and >imitatable) characteristics of death metal (Cookie >Monster vocals, guitar tones, etc.) and have grafted >them onto basic pop structures. Hooray. Actually I was referring to "real" heavy metal, many of the same names that have been in this thread. I just live in a city with great noncommercial radio stations. Lang Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Documentary Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Samuel Quentin" Subject: Re: Lords of CHAOS, etc. Date: 28 Aug 2001 22:14:16 -0500 If one likes metal related bands in this 'territory'? (What are they THINKING?/metal offshoots, etc) try Korova Kill. I really like this band. they used to be called Korova and those albums are just as good. the members are involved in more strictly metal contexts. i've heard some of it, and remember liking the member's other projects, but just can't remember the names of these bands. also, maybe somewhat related to this i guess. and probably likeable to fans of Naked City, is the Japanese black metal band Sigh. they are just great great great. well, i think i'll be checking out these Nor. post black metal bands you mentioned. thanks. -Samuel Others in this territory (Norwegian post-black metal?) are Solefald, Dodheimsgard, Fleurety ('Department of Apocalyptic Affairs' is absolutely baffling, weirder than Arcturus but not quite as good). I must say that the "what are they THINKING?" factor often weighs in on my enjoyment of these groups, but it's not the only factor, and it doesn't mean they aren't "smart" -- there's just a totally foreign sensibility at work (to my ears). It's worth noting, though, that none of these groups has much in common w/ more "techincal" stuff like Meshuggah or Dillinger Escape Plan or death metal or anything like that. Also, this stuff (Fleurety, Arcturus, etc) may be an acquired taste since there is really nothing to compare it to ... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Howes Subject: Re: Napalm Death recommendations? Date: 28 Aug 2001 20:16:16 -0700 >Napalm Death recommendations? Napalm Death started out not a metal band. With each successive album they got more metal and even at times death metal like. With each successive album they slowed down With each successive album they got less noisy. I'm not saying this is a bad thing....I've liked them a LOT until very recently when they just slowed down to much and seem to plod a long not slow enough to be slow and for sure a far cry from their grindcore days. I'd get....in order.... the CD that contains "Scum" from 1986/87 and "From Enslavement to Obliteration" from 1988 "Death By Manipulation" from 1991 "Utopia Banished" from 1992 "the Peal Sessions" which is actually 2 sessions if not three on one CD "Leaders Not Followers" from 1999 which is a collection of covers by ND of old Punk and hardcore they like I'll probably get under someone's skin for not mentioning "Harmony Curruption" from 1990 but I find it a bit spotty compared to the others. There are some GREAT songs but I also think there are some nothing songs.... mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Beddow Subject: RE: Lords of CHAOS! Date: 28 Aug 2001 20:38:22 -0700 (PDT) --- Lang Thompson wrote: > Actually I was referring to "real" heavy metal, many > of the same names that > have been in this thread. Oh, okay. I thought for sure you were referring to the "numetal" stuff. I just live in a city > with great noncommercial > radio stations. Lucky! I've been looking for good metal shows on the radio, even though I don't listen to it all that much. It's good to know what's going on out there... Pete __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?A?= Subject: Re: RE: Napalm Death recommendations? Date: 28 Aug 2001 22:56:43 -0500 (CDT) Speaking of Earache DVD, anyone seen the new Carcass disc yet? Two live sets plus music videos is what I've heard about it, but I've never found it in stores locally - only Cathedral, which frankly don't do much for me. ---------------- Carcass' "Wake Up and Smell the Carcass" came out on video in late 1996. It has almost all their clips (minus the legendary and ultra-rare "Reek of Putrefaction"), a live show from the Necroticism era which is pretty decent, and another live show from the Grindcrusher tour, circa 1989, which just sucks... or maybe that's just because I'm not the biggest fan of Symphonies of Sickness... So you could say I was minorly dissapointed when I got it. I expected it to be a bit more special/better put together... ah well. Anyway, the DVD has the exact same contents than the VHS version. If you don't have the latter, you might as well get it. A _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Obtenga su dirección de correo-e gratis @yahoo.com en http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: CDs for sale Date: 28 Aug 2001 23:07:46 -0500 Hi, all. I'm putting up a few (about 200) CDs for sale, paring down my collection. The list is at http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/cdsale.txt -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: Napalm Death recommendations? Date: 29 Aug 2001 08:57:02 EDT Thanks to everyone for the recommendations and to Steve Smith for the Earache link. Three Napalm Death discs should be hitting my mailbox within the next week. Cheers, Tom NP: Lester Young -- The Complete Studio Sessions on Verve, disc 2. NR: Paul Davies -- God and the New Physics ______________________________________________________________________ Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately, and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ssmith36@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Re: Napalm Death recommendations? Date: 29 Aug 2001 11:22:24 -0400 I think your estimation of Napalm Death's trajectory is completely fair, Michael, and I don't mind that you dismiss 'Harmony Corruption,' since I have problems with that one, too (uneven writing, bad sound, less effective drumming). But I would like to reiterate that the new 'Enemy of the Music Business' is a return to form for the band - it's up there with 'Utopia Banished' as regards the latter-day albums. I've heard that said about the last two discs prior to this one, but this time it's really true - plus, like I mentioned yesterday, the sound is a definite improvement. Also, I would point out that it's no longer worth seeking out the old 'Peel Sessions' CD put out through Dutch East India. The three Peel Sessions from that disc (all with the Dorrian/Steer lineup, if I remember correctly), plus a later session with a four-piece version of the current band (Greenaway, Pintado, Embury and Herrera, I think, but I'm not typing this at home), are all available on the 'Complete BBC Sessions' disc that was issued last year. 'Leaders Not Followers' is pretty great, I'll agree. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ssmith36@sprynet.com Subject: Re: RE: Lords of CHAOS! Date: 29 Aug 2001 11:31:07 -0400 >Peter Beddow wrote: > >Lucky! I've been looking for good metal shows on the >radio, even though I don't listen to it all that much. > It's good to know what's going on out there... It won't help you in the car, but Seton Hall University's WSOU webcasts at www.wsou.net - they mix up all kinds of stuff, from classic metal to nu-metal crap. New York University's WNYU-FM broadcasts and netcasts "Hellhole" from 7:30-9 p.m. Eastern Standard Time on Tuesday nights. It's a good way to hear some new stuff and the occasional interview. (www.wnyu.org) That's all I know. Non-commercial stations are the savior of non-commercial metal on the air - I grew up listening to one such show on Houston's KPFT, before the station got gelded into the granola-munching adult-alternative NPR-wannabe travesty it is today. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kasra@ou.edu Subject: Tala Matrix Date: 29 Aug 2001 11:22:45 -0500 (CDT) I wanted to let everyone know that after some talk of the Tabla Science album a few months back, someone on the list told of The Sterngrove Music Festival in San Francisco. The world premiere concert was on August 12th and I had the pleasure of seeing it. The killer part (besides the fact that it was free) was that Bill Laswell was there with Zakir Hussain (Tablas) and Ustad Sultan (Sarangi)and Karsh Kale (Drums). Everybody who was on the album was there except Talvin Singh. The word was that he was sick. The performers decided to have a question/answer session before the show and Bill Laswell was one of them. I was sensing the idea that Laswell didn't like "talking" about the music, almost hinting that the damn thing speaks for itself. It's fusion, but it's only fusion because we call it that, the important part is that it's music. Although I was amazed at everybody's playing, I will have to say that after lisening to the traditional Indian Classical part of the show, the rest sort of released me. However while, Hussain and Khan played their duets, the whole park was silent... absolutely quiet. I couldn't believe it. When all of the performers played, the tension came down, probably cuz there's was much more sound. But in all, I'm relatively new to the site so I just wanted to give props to whoever that sent me the email with the url about the concert... it turned into a road trip of immense proportions, just for this concert. Kasra George Ahmadi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jmcazurin Subject: RE: Cocteau Twins (NO ZORN CONTENT!!!) Date: 30 Aug 2001 00:39:18 +0800 Neil H. Enet wrote: >I understand that the BBC collection is excellent, I would like to hear our >opinions on this band releases. Hi Neil - Well, you've already got my personal favorite (Heaven or Las Vegas). "Treasure" is excellent, as someone already said. IMHO, "Four Calendar Cafe" is the easiest introduction to the Twins for new listeners because it's a less challenging listen and you can understand some of the lyrics. Real nice ear candy, most of it. mikah I am dancing at the feet of my lord, knowing the eternal secret is this: in all worlds and lives and times, all is bliss, all is bliss, all is bliss. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= Subject: New Medeski project? Date: 29 Aug 2001 21:22:30 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C130D0.B5F5CC00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I've heard about a supposed new John Medeski group called "The Word". = Anyone has any info on this? I've visited the MM&W website and there's = nothing related to this project. Thanks in advance, Efr=E9n del Valle n.p: Susana Baca "Eco de Sombras" (Luaka Bop) ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C130D0.B5F5CC00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
 
I've heard about a supposed new John Medeski group = called "The=20 Word". Anyone has any info on this? I've visited the MM&W website = and=20 there's nothing related to this project.
 
Thanks in advance,
 
Efr=E9n del Valle
n.p: Susana Baca "Eco de Sombras" (Luaka=20 Bop)
------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C130D0.B5F5CC00-- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= Subject: Just found the Medeski project Date: 29 Aug 2001 21:32:00 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C130D2.0974CEC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello zorn-listers, I just found The Word at the towerrecords website. As I have seen, it's = not exactly a Medeski project. The sound samples are not promising at = all. Greetings, Efr=E9n del Valle ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C130D2.0974CEC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello zorn-listers,
 
I just found The Word at the towerrecords website. = As I have=20 seen, it's not exactly a Medeski project. The sound samples are = not =20 promising at all.
 
Greetings,
 
Efr=E9n del Valle
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C130D2.0974CEC0-- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Westergaard" Subject: RE: New Medeski project? Date: 29 Aug 2001 15:30:06 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C1309F.7B2C5200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit it's Medeski with the North Mississippi all-stars (sons of legendary producer Jim Dickenson) and a gospel pedal steel guitar player named Robert Randolph, who was featured on a very cool Arhoolie compilation called Sacred Steel, showcasing the pedal steel players of the modern gospel tradition. The album by the Word is essentially all instrumental gospel/blues tunes, and it rocks, even for a heathen like me. It's out on ropeadope records, which, i believe, is owned by Medeski and his manager. They also put out that Philadelphia Experiment with Uri Caine, the DJ Logic record, and have a new sex mob coming out as well (all James Bond tunes). I really liked the Word, although there's nothing really "out" about it, just a good, fun, uplifting record. sean -----Original Message----- From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Efrén del Valle Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 3:23 PM To: Zorn-list Subject: New Medeski project? Hi, I've heard about a supposed new John Medeski group called "The Word". Anyone has any info on this? I've visited the MM&W website and there's nothing related to this project. Thanks in advance, Efrén del Valle n.p: Susana Baca "Eco de Sombras" (Luaka Bop) ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C1309F.7B2C5200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
it's=20 Medeski with the North Mississippi all-stars (sons of legendary producer = Jim=20 Dickenson) and a gospel pedal steel guitar player named Robert Randolph, = who was=20 featured on a very cool Arhoolie compilation called Sacred Steel, = showcasing the=20 pedal steel players of the modern gospel tradition.  The album by = the Word=20 is essentially all instrumental gospel/blues tunes, and it rocks, even = for a=20 heathen like me.  It's out on ropeadope records, which, i believe,=20 is owned by Medeski and his manager.  They also put out that=20 Philadelphia Experiment with Uri Caine, the DJ Logic record, and have a = new sex=20 mob coming out as well (all James Bond tunes).  I really liked the = Word,=20 although there's nothing really "out" about it, just a good, fun, = uplifting=20 record.  sean
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Efr=E9n = del=20 Valle
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 3:23 PM
To: = Zorn-list
Subject: New Medeski project?

Hi,
 
I've heard about a supposed new John Medeski group = called=20 "The Word". Anyone has any info on this? I've visited the MM&W = website and=20 there's nothing related to this project.
 
Thanks in advance,
 
Efr=E9n del Valle
n.p: Susana Baca "Eco de Sombras" (Luaka=20 Bop)
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C1309F.7B2C5200-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: zorn in the concert hall Date: 29 Aug 2001 16:16:06 EDT howdy you ZORNIES, thought id fwd you a few ZORN things from the upcomin NY CONCERT season/ btw. also in these scared halls will be ligeti xenakis cage, oh look for yerselves, i hate typing. (1) MILLER THEATER.com Composer Portraits Thursday, November 29, 2001 John Zorn Absolute Ensemble (2) CARNEGIE HALL.org WEST GERMAN RADIO ORCHESTRA COLOGNE Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 8:00 PM Semyon Bychkov, Music Director and Conductor Katia and Marielle Labeque, Piano MAGNUS LINDBERG Feria for Orchestra JOHN ZORN Concerto for Two Pianos (New York Premiere) RICHARD STRAUSS Ein Heldenleben, Op. 40 Tickets: $21, $30, $38, $49, $72, $79 yrs steve koenig n.p.: gino soccio: dancer: bootleg remix n.r. open space (booklike magazine) www.the-open-space.org 2 articles on xenakis, others on partch and computer music + plennny more - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: Re: Lords of CHAOS/Sigh, etc. Date: 29 Aug 2001 21:39:09 >and probably likeable to fans of Naked City, is the Japanese black metal >band Sigh. they are just great great great. argghh. how could i forget sigh??? possibly the ultimate weird metal band today. their new album, 'imaginary sonicscape', has more jaw-droppingly baffling moments on it than anything i've heard in a long time. also great songwriting (esp. if you like thin lizzy, '80s thrash metal, etc), lavish production on the level of queen or recent mr. bungle, and a definite zorn/zappa influence (though sigh is not as hyper as naked city, and not sarcastic like zappa). one of the albums of the year! (in my bedroom, at least.) i did an interview w/ mirai, their songwriter/singer/bassist/keyboardist, that i hope to have up on the web sometime soon. he talks about zorn, zappa, john coltrane, sun ra, beatles, venom, celtic frost, erik satie and darkthrone w/ the same knowledge and enthusiasm. a very smart, interesting guy ... wy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Lords of CHAOS/Sigh, etc. Date: 29 Aug 2001 18:30:53 EDT In a message dated Wed, 29 Aug 2001 5:40:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "William York" writes: > argghh. how could i forget sigh??? possibly the ultimate weird metal band > today. their new album, 'imaginary sonicscape', has more jaw-droppingly > baffling moments on it than anything i've heard in a long time. also great > songwriting (esp. if you like thin lizzy, '80s thrash metal, etc), lavish > production on the level of queen or recent mr. bungle, and a definite > zorn/zappa influence (though sigh is not as hyper as naked city, and not > sarcastic like zappa). one of the albums of the year! (in my bedroom, at > least.) > Hmmm...the first couple of tunes at my local record shoppe sounded much like the Sigh CD I *do* own (title?). I bought it because the "avant-garde" description was liberally thrown around in a short review I read about the album in the Century Media catalog. Sounded like fairly tame metal with a few sax solos thrown in. Maybe I should give it another try... -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors Subject: the word [medeski proj] Date: 29 Aug 2001 20:56:03 -0400 I checked this group out at the paradise in boston. What can I say, I was starved for some live music. John really pulled this group together by being really in front and taking charge of a lot of sections. The group would have been better without the guitar player. Overall I got a little tired of the same spirit of most of the songs by the end of the second set. I would not go out and buy the album, but I am not necessarily into gospel or blues. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors Subject: bridges and walls [pictures to look at] Date: 29 Aug 2001 21:00:02 -0400 Hello Zlisters, I have been photo documenting the walls of nyc for about two years, focusing on public art and its relationship to time and the environment. Please have a look and let me know what you think. http://www.thirtydirtybirds.com thanks! Jay _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Thomas" Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins Date: 29 Aug 2001 20:59:02 -0500 Personally I would say _Blue Bell Knoll_ and _The Pink Opaque_ are 2 of the most beautiful pop albums I have ever heard. John - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: JMT Date: 30 Aug 2001 09:59:41 +0200 Hi listmembers, Winter & Winter just announced that they are reissuing the whole JMT catalog in chronological order starting this September with 3 CDs every month... Andreas _________________________________________________________________ Downloaden Sie MSN Explorer kostenlos unter http://explorer.msn.de/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= Subject: SIGH Date: 30 Aug 2001 09:52:02 +0100 (BST) I read an interview with SIGH in TERRORIZER magazine. They said that amongst others (RUSH, etc), JOHN ZORN was big influence. This from the official SIGH homepage, "With influences ranging from early thrash metal to the experimental sounds of John Zorn...". Some of metal friends like them. I've heard the 1st couple of LP's (which I assume are more metal) and although I can certainly appreciate the oddness, I wasn't that into them... I should probably give them another go or at least try out the new material. There're Japanese, and that alone is enough for them to win me over! Great artwork, etc. The official SIGH homepage: http://www.sfu.ca/~dnleong/sigh/index.html ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Vincent Kargatis / Anne Larson" Subject: Re: Mahfouz and summer reading Date: 30 Aug 2001 13:41:58 +0300 > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:20:14 -0400 > From: "Steve Smith" > Subject: Mahfouz and summer reading > > >Brian Olewnick > > > >NR: Naguib Mafouz - Palace Walk > > Anyway, getting around to my point, those of you who have read Mahfouz, > which novels do you most recommend? Sorry, fell behind on digests... Just wanted to pipe in - I could barely stand this novel, read at the beh= est of my wife - here's my take posted on Amazon: -- ... I simply cannot enjoy this novel due to its style of naive, florid hyperbole. This may be due to the translation, but as an American reader,= I find myself unable to stomach such passages as: "He nourished his eyes an= d spirit with glimpses of her face. Even though the looks were furtive and fleeting, they took control of his spirit and senses. [...] They were lik= e a burst of lightning glowing for a brief moment, its flash illuminating vas= t expanses and dazzling the eyes. His heart was drunk with a mysterious and intoxicating joy..." or sentences like: "His concern was quickly transmit= ted to her sensitive soul." The whole book reads like this. Is this a result of the translation? Are Arabic writing styles so different from what is typically accepted in English writing? Or is it just me? -- Anyway, it Wasn't For Me. -- Vincent Kargatis np: Anthony Braxton & Georg Gr=E4we - "Duet I pt 2" (Duo (Amsterdam) 199= 1) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: Trisha Brown/Dave Douglas review ? Date: 30 Aug 2001 14:24:15 +0200 Hi zornlisters, this story brings me to another dance-downtown connection: the belgian dance theatre Ultima Vez directed by Wim Vandekeybus with music by Marc Ribot. This fall there are some european performances: Nov 23 Rouen, France Nov 27-28 Ghent, Belgium Nov 30-Dec 1 Antwerp, Belgium "Inasmuch As Life Is Borrowed..." music and dance project w/Sebastian Steinberg, Anthony Coleman, Sim Cain, Ned Rothenberg, Marc Ribot this was performed last year but I haven´t seen it so far. Any reviews? Andreas >From: patRice > >But: a few years ago, while I was living in London, a New York dance >company - >very famous, very highly regarded in dance circles, just can't recall their >name - had a performance at the Royal Albert Hall, dancing to parts of >Naked >City's Absinthe, later to a live performance by the Arto Lindsay band >(feat. >Marc Ribot). > >I'm not into dance performances at all, but nevertheless decided to go to >the >show just to see Lindsay & Ribot. It did not convert me to dance, but I >must >admit that I did enjoy the whole show very much - it was great to see the >dancing to music I like so much, and it did seem to somehow make sense... > >Hope this little story helps... np: Charles Mingus - New Tijuana Moods _________________________________________________________________ Downloaden Sie MSN Explorer kostenlos unter http://explorer.msn.de/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Artur Nowak" Subject: Milford Graves Date: 30 Aug 2001 17:46:09 +0200 Hi Philozorners, I just bought the book "Extended Play" by John Corbett and got very excited about Milford Graves, the percussionist, who could stop his pulse. I know thay he released two solo records on Tzadik - "Grand Unification" and "Stories". I can listen to one-instrument-solo-record, I love drums (Han Bennink just kicked my ass at Saalfelden festival last weekend, he was playing with Mengelberg, Douglas and Jones), so this is no issue for me. Other than "solo-drums", any comments about these records? Which one get first? Feedback will be appreciated. __________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak [arno at emd dot pl] muzyka.emd.pl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "George Scala" Subject: Re: Milford Graves Date: 30 Aug 2001 12:23:54 -0400 see the Milford Graves discography that I compiled at http://www.mindspring.com/~scala/graves.html George Scala - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis Subject: Craque in Chicago at HotHouse, Sept. 4 Date: 30 Aug 2001 11:21:15 -0500 |- - - - - i m p r o v i s e d e l e c t r o n i c a |- - - Matthew Ross Davis (aka Craque) http://craque.net craque@craque.net |- - - - - HotHouse http://www.hothouse.net 31 E. Balbo, between State and Wabash Chicago, IL 60605 |- - - - - - - Tuesday, September 4 - 9PM, $7 / $5 students (also appearing are Paul Hartsaw, Sean Sommer, and Ian Frydrych Trio) - - - - - - - - -| Plateaus of convergence, Craque signifies those inbetween areas of reality we often choose to overlook. By using acoustic instruments, samplers, voice, sequencers, turntables, hardware effects, non-musical objects and a laptop, Craque transforms our everyday world of sound into a brilliant collage of sonic groove. - - - - - - - - - - -| Matthew Ross Davis (aka Craque) studied composition in undergrad and opera performance in grad school at the University of Maryland, where he developed a strong affinity for the work of John Cage and studied his life and work extensively. Naturally this soon fed electronics into his vocal work, and before long dance music entered the picture. - - - - - - - - - - - - -| Now, in Chicago, the palette is thick: dance music DJ activities mix casually with elements free improvisation (and vice versa). In the past year, Matthew has appeared at the Knitting Factory with "structured" improv mavens Gray Code, and as a member of the vocal trio Comma held a spotlight feature in Pauline Oliveros's Lunar Opera at Lincoln Center. Around town he's collaborated with some of Chicago's most well known improvisors, and continues to explore deeper territories within Chicago's DJ and improvised music scene. In July, MRD was featured in osmag.com's "Local DJ" spot, and has plans to release an EP on vinyl later this year in addition to a more active performance schedule. More compositions, mixes and live performances are available for download at http://craque.net. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Samuel Quentin" Subject: Re: Milford Graves Date: 30 Aug 2001 12:01:59 -0500 did you mean which of the solo records to get first? if you meant that... well... Stories is more immediately accessible. on this one it seems like he's an entire band (although it always seems this way) but on this album instead of a band of percussionists he really emphasizes a bass, a propelling rhtyhm, and a line in his singing. his singing takes a more central role in Stories and is also emphasized more in the studio mix. Grand Unification was made before Stories. i like both albums equally but they are very different. in GU he makes the first track, Grand Unification, and then pulls all the other tracks from this first track, in a sense. uniting philosophical and scientific ideas... so i guess the first track is kind of like the thesis. and on this one he tunes the skins of the drums to very specific numbers in the cent system. they are both great and i think you should buy both of these albums before anything else. -Samuel Hi Philozorners, I just bought the book "Extended Play" by John Corbett and got very excited about Milford Graves, the percussionist, who could stop his pulse. I know thay he released two solo records on Tzadik - "Grand Unification" and "Stories". I can listen to one-instrument-solo-record, I love drums (Han Bennink just kicked my ass at Saalfelden festival last weekend, he was playing with Mengelberg, Douglas and Jones), so this is no issue for me. Other than "solo-drums", any comments about these records? Which one get first? Feedback will be appreciated. __________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak [arno at emd dot pl] muzyka.emd.pl - _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Westergaard" Subject: RE: Sir Duke (Bill Ware, Marc Ribot) upcoming in KFR? Date: 30 Aug 2001 14:34:30 -0400 Sir Duke is just Bill Ware and Marc Ribot doing duets of Ellington material. I just got a copy in the mail today; i'll let you know how it sounds. The Mario Pavone was in the same package. sean -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Patrice L. Roussel Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 3:07 PM Cc: proussel@ichips.intel.com There is mention of a set of upcoming Fall releases on the KF web site: Coming This Fall Mario Pavone Octet Hasidic New Wave Bill Ware's Vibes Bruknaum Sir Duke: Bill Ware, Marc Ribot Any idea of what the "Sir Duke" project is? Patrice. NP: ORCHESTRAL WORKS VOL. 4: Witold Lutoslawski (Naxos) NR: THE DEVILS OF LOUDUN: Huxley - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Artur Nowak" Subject: Glenn Gould (zero Zorn content) Date: 30 Aug 2001 21:58:17 +0200 Many artists who have nothing to do were discussed on the list, just because they play good music, but I don't remember anybody mentioning Glenn Gould, who became my hero during last few months. It all started with "Goldberg Variations" - of course, you would say, but you probably don't expect, that it started with... Uri Caine weird record. After hearing the twisted Caine versions I wanted to listen to the original. I heard some Bach before, as a kid (late night radio before sleep), but I didn't bother about BWV numbers at all. Gould was the first interpreter to get familiar with, since Caine mentioned him as an influence. I got the 1981 recording of Variations and whole new world has opened to me. I just can't stop listening to it, every time it's a very intense experience. Meanwhile I got some dozen of other recordings (including the other two by Gould), but nothing is comparable with his interpretations. Next step was Wohltemperierte Klavier ("wow, there is a music which can actually sound nice!") and Kunst der Fuge. It's a very demanding piece, but it moved my "internal ear" to a new level of sensibility. I just listen to music in a different way now. Nothing is the same. All of the sudden, some stuff which seemed complex sound easy now, I can identify structures in music, which were hidden before. OK, you will quote the Dilbert strip "if you have to increase you IQ, listen to some classical music", naive, but true. What's more, the only two "types" of music which kick my ass now is Bach and free jazz. I listen to Kunst der Fugue and Shape of Jazz to Come only. I wonder, where it will take me... Anyway, who is after Gould? Other than Canadians on the list of course! Who was reading his articles? I just read an excellent book about him by polish (!) critic who lives in France, Stefan Rieger, the book is great, because it's not just a biography with a list of all Goulds strange behaviours, but almost a philosophical dialogue with Gould about the music per se. And the artist. And the perception of music by a listener. And about judging the music. Just one quote: "The determination of the value of a work of art according to the information available about it it is a most delinquent form of aesthetic appraisal" - what about that? __________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak [arno at emd dot pl] muzyka.emd.pl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tosh Subject: Re: Glenn Gould (zero Zorn content) Date: 30 Aug 2001 13:08:54 -0700 Glenn Gould is great. I love his Wagner album. A way back there was a collection of his letters that was interesting. He was a good writer. I suggest getting the Glenn Gould Reader. Have anyone seen his T.V. performances or videos? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Tonic and Knitting Factory Date: 29 Aug 2001 14:54:07 -0500 Are shows at Tonic and the Knitting Factory all ages or do you have to be 21 to enter. A young friend of mine is visiting New York and is looking for good concerts. Thanks for the help. Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Glenn Gould (zero Zorn content) Date: 30 Aug 2001 16:22:45 -0400 (EDT) Artur: One thing you should look into -- if you haven't already -- is a movie called "24 Short Films About Glenn Gould". It's fiction starring Coilm Feore playing Gould at most stages of his life. Because it's neither a documentory or a straight drama it probably reveals more about the enigmatic Gould than either of those straighter medium could. Ken Waxman --- Artur Nowak wrote: > Many artists who have nothing to do were discussed > on the list, just because > they play good music, but I don't remember anybody > mentioning Glenn Gould, > who became my hero during last few months. It all > started with "Goldberg > Variations" - of course, you would say, but you > probably don't expect, that > it started with... Uri Caine weird record. After > hearing the twisted Caine > versions I wanted to listen to the original. I heard > some Bach before, as a > kid (late night radio before sleep), but I didn't > bother about BWV numbers > at all. Gould was the first interpreter to get > familiar with, since Caine > mentioned him as an influence. I got the 1981 > recording of Variations and > whole new world has opened to me. I just can't stop > listening to it, every > time it's a very intense experience. Meanwhile I got > some dozen of other > recordings (including the other two by Gould), but > nothing is comparable > with his interpretations. Next step was > Wohltemperierte Klavier ("wow, there > is a music which can actually sound nice!") and > Kunst der Fuge. It's a very > demanding piece, but it moved my "internal ear" to a > new level of > sensibility. I just listen to music in a different > way now. Nothing is the > same. All of the sudden, some stuff which seemed > complex sound easy now, I > can identify structures in music, which were hidden > before. OK, you will > quote the Dilbert strip "if you have to increase you > IQ, listen to some > classical music", naive, but true. What's more, the > only two "types" of > music which kick my ass now is Bach and free jazz. I > listen to Kunst der > Fugue and Shape of Jazz to Come only. I wonder, > where it will take me... > > Anyway, who is after Gould? Other than Canadians on > the list of course! > > Who was reading his articles? I just read an > excellent book about him by > polish (!) critic who lives in France, Stefan > Rieger, the book is great, > because it's not just a biography with a list of all > Goulds strange > behaviours, but almost a philosophical dialogue with > Gould about the music > per se. And the artist. And the perception of music > by a listener. And about > judging the music. Just one quote: > > "The determination of the value of a work of art > according to the > information available about it it is a most > delinquent form of aesthetic > appraisal" - what about that? > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Artur Nowak [arno at emd dot pl] muzyka.emd.pl > > > - > _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Re: Glenn Gould (zero Zorn content) Date: 30 Aug 2001 16:26:22 -0400 Here in Canada, Gould is almost as well known for his (non-musical) work on radio as for his recordings.... well, he's also known for his whacked-out behviour, but that's another matter. Gould did a number of major documentaries for CBC Radio, including a stunning sound-montage called 'The Idea Of North' that was way ahead of its time (especially given that it's all manually edited using razor blade and tape) and captured a lot of his ideas about the influence of isolation and space on artistic works. For a couple of years I kicked around the idea of writing a book that would transpose Gould's concepts about space (and being "the other" in a continent dominated by its southern neighbour) to jazz musicians. It's certainly something you can hear in the music of Paul Bley, Sonny Greenwich and Kenny Wheeler, to name three Canadians that non-Canadians are likely familiar with, and the concept also rang true with lesser-known Canadian musicians like Ingrid Jensen, Andy Milne and Jeff Johnston. The National Film Board of Canada has a number of films about Gould, which you can probably access on video if you live in New York, London, Paris or one of the other cities where there's a major Canadian cultural presence. I would also recommend the semi-documentary "32 Short Films About Glenn Gould". There are also a number of online sources for Gould material. The CBC did a number of things on Gould for his 65th(?) birthday, but I'm not sure whether they're still posted somewhere or not (the CBC site is www.cbc.ca). The National Library of Canada also has a major trove of Gouldbilia, since its the repository for all of his papers and recordings. It also has his huge, black Steinway, which is used by visiting artists (Renee Rosnes played it this summer during the jazz festival). James Hale Tosh wrote: > Glenn Gould is great. I love his Wagner album. A way back there was a > collection of his letters that was interesting. He was a good writer. I > suggest getting the Glenn Gould Reader. Have anyone seen his T.V. > performances or videos? > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Theo Klaase Subject: Sir Duke Date: 30 Aug 2001 13:38:28 -0700 (PDT) --0-995139285-999203908=:89275 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Where can I get a copy of this CD? -Theo Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. --0-995139285-999203908=:89275 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

    Where can I get a copy of this CD?

-Theo


Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. --0-995139285-999203908=:89275-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: smokey@laplaza.org Subject: Re: W&W / JMT Date: 30 Aug 2001 14:47:27 -0600 So, what's Winter and Winter's web address? Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Westergaard" Subject: RE: Sir Duke Date: 30 Aug 2001 16:35:41 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C13171.CEEAE2D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it comes out sept. 4 -----Original Message----- From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Theo Klaase Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 4:38 PM To: Zorn List Subject: Sir Duke Where can I get a copy of this CD? -Theo -- Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C13171.CEEAE2D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
it=20 comes out sept. 4
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Theo=20 Klaase
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 4:38 PM
To: = Zorn=20 List
Subject: Sir Duke

    Where can I get a copy of this CD?

-Theo


Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video = instant=20 messaging with Yahoo!=20 Messenger.
------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C13171.CEEAE2D0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Vuilleumier=2C_St=E9phane=22?= Subject: RE: W&W / JMT Date: 30 Aug 2001 23:04:20 +0200 > -----Original Message----- > From: smokey@laplaza.org [mailto:smokey@laplaza.org] > Subject: Re: W&W / JMT >=20 > So, what's Winter and Winter's web address? This always was a tough one to google for... I'm not sure they even have their own website This is what I know: winter&winter P=FCndterplatz 8, D-80803 Munich, Germany Tel: (49) 89 38 66 50 00 Fax: (49) 89 36 10 10 55=20 e-mail: WinterProduction@compuserve.com=20 Stephane - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Reaboi@aol.com Subject: 2 rec's for Glen Gould Date: 30 Aug 2001 17:45:05 EDT --part1_30.1a13e3af.28c00de1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Artur, here are 2 Glenn Gould things to check out: * his first recording of Goldberg Variations. it's a lot different from the 2nd one (that you've got): and faster. * speaking of summer reading, a book called THE LOSER by Thomas Bernhadt. it's a fictional story about 3 young friends and piano students. the first was Gould (we all know what happened to him), the other was so depressed by hearing and knowing someone of Gould's genius he killed himself, and the third is the narrator, who gave up music and is depressed. it takes place after Glenn's death, and just after the other's suicide. it's so brilliant -- as an improviser, reading it is especially fruitful. I can now (almost) relate to some of the objective questions of the classical world; ie, "why even bother recording Goldberg when Gould has done it perfectly?" it's total bullshit, but now I can see how some oldschool classical dudes feel about things. (and if you don't know Thomas Burnhadt, you either love or hate his obsessiveness.) Cheers, Dave --part1_30.1a13e3af.28c00de1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Artur, here are 2 Glenn Gould things to check out:

* his first recording of Goldberg Variations. it's a lot different from the
2nd one (that you've got): and faster.

* speaking of summer reading, a book called THE LOSER by Thomas Bernhadt.
it's a fictional story about 3 young friends and piano students. the first
was Gould (we all know what happened to him), the other was so depressed by
hearing and knowing someone of Gould's genius he killed himself, and the
third is the narrator, who gave up music and is depressed. it takes place
after Glenn's death, and just after the other's suicide. it's so brilliant --
as an improviser, reading it is especially fruitful. I can now (almost)
relate to some of the objective questions of the classical world; ie, "why
even bother recording Goldberg when Gould has done it perfectly?" it's total
bullshit, but now I can see how some oldschool classical dudes feel about
things. (and if you don't know Thomas Burnhadt, you either love or hate his
obsessiveness.)

Cheers,
Dave
--part1_30.1a13e3af.28c00de1_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Necks in NYC? Date: 30 Aug 2001 19:03:22 EDT does anyone (Steve?) know when the Necks show at BAM in October is? it's conceivable that the info is on their web site, but I certainly couldn't find it. thanks! Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer Subject: Naguib Mafouz - Palace Walk Date: 30 Aug 2001 19:42:26 -0400 > >NR: Naguib Mafouz - Palace Walk >Just wanted to pipe in - I could barely stand this novel, > read at the behest of my wife - here's my take posted on Amazon: <> I have to admit I had the same reaction to "The Palace Walk". In fact, I found the style so annoying that I didn't finish it. My rationale in abandoning it is that there is more literature out in the world than any one person can read in a lifetime, so why waste your time on something that is not enjoyable to you? At one time I thought I might try to read at least one book by each of the 100 or so Nobel Laureates. But books like "The Palace Walk" and "Beloved" convinced me otherwise. On the other hand, during the attempt I did discover some real masters unknown to me before then, like Miguel Angel Asturias (Mulata) and Par Lagerkvist (The Sibyl, Aftonlund, The Dwarf, Herod and Mariamne, etc.) and Salvatore Quasimodo (Selected Poems) ... David K. nr: "Tun-Huang" by Yasushi Inoue np: "Wichlinghauser Blues" by Hans Reichel (FMP) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: A;bert Ayler, Vibracathedral articles Date: 30 Aug 2001 21:34:00 -0400 Greetings, In the latest edition of the online magazine Perfect Sound Forever , you'll find (among other things): LITTLE WILLIE JOHN/ALBERT AYLER Re-Viewing influences- Wally Shoup examines these two seemingly disparate artists and how they provide a well-spring of artistry even today. VIBRACATHEDRAL ORCHESTRA Kitchen droning with the U.K.'s finest: even booster Tony Rettman admits that their music "isn't the most accessible thang in the world" We're always looking for good material so let us know if you have any writing or ideas for upcoming issues. See you online, Jason Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Case" Subject: New Secret Chief's 3 samples Date: 31 Aug 2001 12:10:59 +0930 The new SC3 album "Book M" (web of mimicry records) is out in the next fortnight some samples have appeared on the midheaven mail order site, and are impressive http://www.midheaven.com/labels/web.of.mimicry.html what do "y all think? Case Sinclair Adelaide Centre for Spinal Research IMVS Frome Road Adelaide SA 5001 AUSTRALIA case.sinclair@imvs.sa.gov.au - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ssmith36@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Necks in NYC? Date: 30 Aug 2001 23:12:38 -0400 The date for the Necks gig (and all the other Australian music coming as part of "Next Wave Down Under") is not yet on the website, and actually has not been announced as yet. The note on the website says to check back "in September" for exact details. I'll be happy to post exact information as soon as it hits my desk. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > does anyone (Steve?) know when the Necks show at BAM in October is? it's conceivable that the info is on their web site, but I certainly couldn't find it. thanks! Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CDcollectr@aol.com Subject: New member - trading shows OK? Date: 30 Aug 2001 23:16:58 EDT Hi, My name is Ray and I live in RI. I just did a search for a Zorn mailing list and here I am. I'm a big fan of Naked City, Lounge Lizards and many others. Is it OK to discuss trading live shows on CDR? If so, I'd be interested in setting up some Zorn trades, among others. Many thanx! Ray CD-R List - http://members.aol.com/cdcollectr/main.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: zorn in the concert hall Date: 31 Aug 2001 12:17:09 +0200 Hi, the premiere of this new Zorn composition on behalf of West German Radio is scheduled for Dec 14 and 15 2001 in Cologne. Andreas np: MMW - The Dropper (Blue Note) >From: Acousticlv@aol.com > >(2) CARNEGIE HALL.org > WEST GERMAN RADIO ORCHESTRA COLOGNE >Wednesday, February 27, 2002 > at 8:00 PM Semyon Bychkov, Music Director and Conductor >Katia and Marielle Labeque, Piano >MAGNUS LINDBERG Feria for Orchestra >JOHN ZORN Concerto for Two Pianos (New York Premiere) >RICHARD STRAUSS Ein Heldenleben, Op. 40 >Tickets: $21, $30, $38, $49, $72, $79 _________________________________________________________________ Downloaden Sie MSN Explorer kostenlos unter http://explorer.msn.de/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Tim Berne's "Fractured Fairy Tales" reissue Date: 31 Aug 2001 06:17:10 EDT I wrote to Winter & Winter yesterday, asking about Berne's "FFT" reissue. Here's the response: > Dear Mr. DeMarchi, > > At the moment, it's scheduled for Jan 2003 release. > Thank you. > > Best Regards, > Mariko Takahashi > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: Necks in NYC? Date: 31 Aug 2001 14:13:19 +0200 shows of the Necks can be seen at www.thenecks.com/pages/shows.html but unfortunately it´s one of those never updated and it ends April 2001. Andreas np: The Ex Orkest - Een Rondje Holland (Ex Records) >JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > > does anyone (Steve?) know when the Necks show at BAM in October is? it's >conceivable that the info is on their web site, but I certainly couldn't >find >it. thanks! _________________________________________________________________ Downloaden Sie MSN Explorer kostenlos unter http://explorer.msn.de/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Glenn Gould (zero Zorn content) Date: 31 Aug 2001 19:32:34 +0200 Has anyone heard his album of hindenith duos for piano and trumpet? (a w ogole Artur to teplyty bywaja tanio w empikach - ale pewnie wiesz...) Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: zorn in the concert hall Date: 31 Aug 2001 19:45:51 +0200 Does anyone know whether how to get tix for this? Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 12:17 PM > Hi, > > the premiere of this new Zorn composition on behalf of West German Radio is > scheduled for Dec 14 and 15 2001 in Cologne. > > Andreas > > np: MMW - The Dropper (Blue Note) > > >From: Acousticlv@aol.com > > > >(2) CARNEGIE HALL.org > > WEST GERMAN RADIO ORCHESTRA COLOGNE > >Wednesday, February 27, 2002 > > at 8:00 PM Semyon Bychkov, Music Director and Conductor > >Katia and Marielle Labeque, Piano > >MAGNUS LINDBERG Feria for Orchestra > >JOHN ZORN Concerto for Two Pianos (New York Premiere) > >RICHARD STRAUSS Ein Heldenleben, Op. 40 > >Tickets: $21, $30, $38, $49, $72, $79 > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Downloaden Sie MSN Explorer kostenlos unter http://explorer.msn.de/intl.asp > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Naguib Mafouz - Palace Walk Date: 31 Aug 2001 13:59:09 -0400 (EDT) David: How did you do on your investigation of Pearl S. Buck (laureate 1938)? Just shows that all listings, honors, popularity polls are somewhat suspect. Was it Bird or the late Canadian PM John Diefenbaker who said "polls are for dogs"? Ken Waxman --- David Keffer wrote: > At one time I thought I might try to read at least > one book by each of the 100 or so Nobel Laureates. But books like "The > Palace Walk" and "Beloved" > convinced me otherwise. On the other hand, during > the attempt I did discover > some real masters unknown to me before then, like > Miguel Angel Asturias > (Mulata) and Par Lagerkvist (The Sibyl, Aftonlund, The Dwarf, Herod and Mariamne, etc.) > and Salvatore Quasimodo (Selected Poems) ... _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Odp: Glenn Gould (zero Zorn content) Date: 01 Sep 2001 12:22:29 -0700 > Has anyone heard his album of hindenith duos for piano and trumpet? (a > w ogole Artur to teplyty bywaja tanio w empikach - ale pewnie > wiesz...) > Marcin Gokieli > marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl > Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem > you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor > > > - > Yeah. There was a whole double album of the Hindemith piano/brass duets, and it's pretty amazing stuff, featuring GG with the main brass players fr the Phila Orch. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: new Bailey duo Date: 31 Aug 2001 13:08:29 -0700 DMG is listing a new Derek Bailey duo: 10.DEREK BAILEY & MICHAEL WELCH-Untitled Improvisations (Illegal Radio) Splendid live duo improv with the grand-daddy of Euro-avant-jazz guitar and a fine drummer. $15. Does anybody know where this label is from? Thanks, Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Lankin" Subject: Re: Paul Bley Date: 31 Aug 2001 15:25:19 -0400 > > long Annette Peacock (Gary's sister? Wife?) > At one time Gary Peacock's wife. Later Paul Bley's wife (after Carla left Paul and before he married Carol Goss.) Alan Lankin lankina@att.net http://jazzmatazz.home.att.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: John Coltrane - The Olatunji Concert Date: 31 Aug 2001 21:35:40 -0400 Since I mentioned this impending release before, I thought I would elaborate, now that I've picked up the new issue of ICE and seen more details. "John Coltrane's last recorded performance, a previously unissued April 23, 1967 set at the Olatunji Center of African Culture in New York City, will be issued on September 25 on Impulse! as 'The Oltaunji Concert: The Last Live Recording.' The show consisted of just two songs: a 28-minute "Ogunde" and a 35-minute "My Favorite Things." - David Okamoto Given that we've all got more than a few amazing versions of "MFT" in our collections, I'm most anticipating that "Ogunde." Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Solient Green, "So Hatred," 'Sewn Mouth Secrets' (Relapse) NP - Deena Weinstein, 'Heavy Metal: The Music and Its Culture' - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "George Scala" Subject: Re: John Coltrane - The Olatunji Concert Date: 31 Aug 2001 23:26:02 -0400 Do they mention anything about the other new Coltrane release titled "Spiritual"? I was wondering if it is new material or previously issued. George Scala > Since I mentioned this impending release before, I thought I would > elaborate, now that I've picked up the new issue of ICE and seen more > details. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: smokey@laplaza.org Subject: Re: W&W, SC3, RealAudio, Watts/Keltner Date: 31 Aug 2001 22:15:15 -0600 Dang It, Didn't Winter & Winter used to have a cleverly arranged site when they first got going a few years ago??? Just have to put another plug in for those Secret Chiefs previews - Whew! - NP, by the way. Those boys are marching to another drummer - some A-rab rock drummer. Yow. Cheep, too, at $11 for 25 or so tunes... http://www.midheaven.com/labels/web.of.mimicry.html Anybody know the logistics of putting Real Audio samples on a site? Expensive software, license? Another odd possible gem: Charlie Watts/Jim Keltner Project - all tunes named for their drummer/percussion heroes: 1. Shelly Manne 2. Art Blakey 3. Kenny Clarke 4. Tony Williams 5. Roy Haynes 6. Max Roach 7. Airto 8. Billy Higgins 9. Elvin Suite Heard some interesting samples at http://www.jpc.de Anybody heard more? Many things on my mind, Dan in Taos - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: John Coltrane - The Olatunji Concert Date: 01 Sep 2001 00:54:17 -0400 About the new Impulse! release 'Spiritual,' ICE says nada -- I'd wondered that very thing myself. The release was listed, but, alas, no details. My guess is that it's previously available stuff - them rekkid company peeps DO like to pat themselves on the back anytime they get their hands on something genuinely "unreleased." Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Beethoven String Quartet Op. 132 - mvt 3, Artemis Quartet (Ars Musici) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: W&W, SC3, RealAudio, Watts/Keltner Date: 01 Sep 2001 15:10:10 +1000 > Didn't Winter & Winter used to have a cleverly arranged site when they > first got going a few years ago??? I do remember a site, don't remember it being particularly cleverly arranged however... > Just have to put another plug in for those Secret Chiefs previews - > Whew! - NP, by the way. Those boys are marching to another drummer - > some A-rab rock drummer. Yow. Cheep, too, at $11 for 25 or so tunes... > http://www.midheaven.com/labels/web.of.mimicry.html Anyone else having problems with these files? I've got most of them to play after much perseverance, but some are still just timing out.. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: malczewski@earthlink.net (Frank Malczewski) Subject: Re: John Coltrane - The Olatunji Concert Date: 31 Aug 2001 23:34:04 -0600 Actually, there's been some discussion about these releases in the Coltrane mailing list. I didn't pay much attention to this particular release, as I think it is indeed (just/mostly?) reissued material. Seems like, however, that Verve has been getting a few 'new' tidbits here and there from the Coltrane estate (i.e., Ravi) and sprinkling them about on their more recent/upcoming CDs. E.g., the recent greatest hits package has a unreleased studio version of a song (can't remember which, "Impressions" maybe). And they're supposedly reissuing/remastering other CDs and will include a new cut or two. So, if you want everything, you'd probably have to buy just about every CD they put out or reissue. I don't know. I think Coltrane is the greatest, but even my completist impulses have been dampened by this approach. The claim is that some of this 'newer' material may show up later in a more appropriate format (i.e., not just part of some other rerelease), but with Verve I'll believe it when I see it. Other Coltrane news: Pablo is about to put out a 7CD set of live in Europe (I think from the early 60s) material, apparently a significant amount of it never before released. Don't know about the sound quality either, but likely some of this stuff will sound a lot better than the boots we've been subjected to over the years, as the tapes are from Norman Granz (same source for the earlier Pablo releases). I've heard a 9/28 release date for it. --Frank > About the new Impulse! release 'Spiritual,' ICE says nada -- I'd wondered > that very thing myself. The release was listed, but, alas, no details. My > guess is that it's previously available stuff - them rekkid company peeps DO > like to pat themselves on the back anytime they get their hands on something > genuinely "unreleased." > > Steve Smith -