From: "Andrew" Subject: Re: Newbie question Date: 01 Dec 2001 03:53:44 -0500 It depends what you mean by "distracted", really....it's definitely more challenging to listen to than, say, "The Gift"...but I really love "Xu Feng." Before getting into Zorn, i've always been into bands like Don Caballero, and other post-rock type bands...I think "xu feng" is truly "post-rock." andrew > hey all. I recently discovered John Zorn's genius talent through Xu > Feng, which was quite a challenging work to digest. I moved on to > Masada and Naked City, and found Xu Feng to be quite enjoyable. > My question is, what's the verdict on Xu Feng? How do people listen to > it and analyse it? I've had no trouble playing and enjoying any of the > Masada cds, yet I cannot go through more than half of the Xu Feng album > without being distracted. > Do hard-core ZOrn fans think it's one of his best?? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Newbie question Date: 02 Dec 2001 10:50:22 -0800 > hey all. I recently discovered John Zorn's genius talent through Xu > Feng, which was quite a challenging work to digest. I moved on to > Masada and Naked City, and found Xu Feng to be quite enjoyable. > My question is, what's the verdict on Xu Feng? How do people listen to > it and analyse it? I've had no trouble playing and enjoying any of the > Masada cds, yet I cannot go through more than half of the Xu Feng album > without being distracted. > Do hard-core ZOrn fans think it's one of his best?? > > thanks, > the muff > Personally, I don't. I haven't been able to get through it in one sitting. But my tastes don't really represent anyone else's on this list. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com np: bill frisell -- this land - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: Newbie question Date: 01 Dec 2001 15:07:03 -0400 >Personally, I don't. I haven't been able to get >through it in one sitting. >But my tastes don't really represent anyone >else's on this list. skip heller -------------- Same here, I've read that it's a lot of people's favourite, but I can't listen to the complete CD. Maybe I'll listen to it in my car, some albums make more sense in the car than in the house. Somebody said that Zorn's game pieces made more sense while walking, well, I'll give it a try in the car, let's see. Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. HENRY MANCINI - Greatest Hits - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: " A.VanValin" Subject: Re: Newbie question Date: 01 Dec 2001 16:31:55 -0800 ----- Original Message ----- > ...Xu Feng, which was quite a challenging ...How do people listen to > it and analyse it? There was a recent thread on the "game pieces" that touched on this question. Of the offered opinions, the ones that rang most "true" to me mentioned that 1) these pieces are best enjoyed live so that you can get a sense of the interaction between the musicians and the conductor 2) part of the experience of seeing these shows live is that everyone has fun, and the musicians' enthusiasm is infectious So go see Cobra if you can. Its a blast. I took my Dad to a Cobra show and he said it reminded him of seeing Mingus live. Does that sound like a sane analysis to any of you? -Van - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: bbc radio show + o'rourke/mueller question Date: 01 Dec 2001 19:01:57 -0600 (CST) greetings everyone, 1. Someone sent me a copy of the bbc radio show on zorn from a while back. i'm done listening to it (it was more interesting than i expected), so i figure i'd pass it along (it's 2 cds). if anyone* wants it, send me your mailing address and i'll drop it in the post. (* i have to limit the offer to addresses in north america, because postage gets too high to send it elsewhere; sorry. also, apologies to digest readers, who will probably get this message too late...). 2. does anyone remember the exact day on which jim o'rourke and gunter muller played as a duo at the 1999 victoriville music festival? (also, how about klaxon gueule?). all i can find on the web is an indication of the general dates of the festival (and even there, I get contradictions: one source specifies may 20-24th, another the 16th-20th). 3. thumbs up to both the greg kelly/jason lescalleet ('forlorn green') and the stilluppsteypa/tv pow ('we are everyone in the room') releases on jon's erstwhile label (www.erstwhilerecords.com). i'm having slightly more trouble getting into the cor fuhler/gert-jan prins ('the flirts'), but it's been growing on me. finally, the poire_z selftitled release on for4ears sounds great to my ears. if i have time, i'll try to say something more substantial... cheers, whit np - farmers market - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: o'rourke/mueller question Date: 01 Dec 2001 20:27:38 EST In a message dated 12/1/01 8:05:25 PM, whit@twinearth.wustl.edu writes: << does anyone remember the exact day on which jim o'rourke and gunter muller played as a duo at the 1999 victoriville music festival? (also, how about klaxon gueule?). all i can find on the web is an indication of the general dates of the festival (and even there, I get contradictions: one source specifies may 20-24th, another the 16th-20th). >> M=FCller/O'Rourke was on the 23rd, and Klaxon Guele was on the 21st. I recal= l=20 being disappointed by the M=FCller/O'Rourke set, but seeing that, then L=EA=20= Quan=20 Ninh the following day, was where the idea for La Voyelle Liquide came from. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: re: zorn bbc taken + got dates on victo fest Date: 01 Dec 2001 19:41:29 -0600 (CST) hello everyone the bbc radio show is taken. also, i've learned (learnt?) the correct dates of the victo performances i mentioned in the last email. thanks, whit - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Newbie question Date: 01 Dec 2001 23:00:18 -0500 Yes, absolutely, very much so. Your dad's right on the money - that's a great analogy of the listener's experience with Cobra (if not necessarily the composer's), according to everything I've read and heard about the Mingus Workshops. Me, I was most recently reminded of Mingus's "workshop" style of arranging on the fly and in the moment when I saw Zorn's Masada (minus Joey, plus Kenny) last Thursday night, sharing a bill with the Absolute Ensemble playing Zorn's orchestral music at the Miller Theatre in NYC. Zorn was gesturing the players in and out of the music with hand signals and audible comments in real time in the same way Mingus did, and in the same way that Steven Bernstein still does night after night with Sex Mob. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - J.S. Bach, Partita No. 3, Hilary Hahn (Sony Classical) -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of A.VanValin I took my Dad to a Cobra show and he said it reminded him of seeing Mingus live. Does that sound like a sane analysis to any of you? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: bbc radio show + o'rourke/mueller question Date: 01 Dec 2001 23:19:47 -0500 Agreed completely in re: the Kelly/Lescalleet and Stilluppsteypa/TV Pow - wunnerful, wunnerful. The Fuhler/Prins and Ielasi/Sciajno are tougher, but very much worth the effort. I also really dug the Dorner/Drumm. The Kelly/Lescalleet is my fave of the recent releases, and I don't doubt that it's most likely due to the fact that, as a human and a musician (albeit non-practicing), I can relate to Kelly's need to breathe - and thus can interpolate myself into his music no matter how far flung it may be. Greg has impeccable musical instincts, which I'll happily follow pretty much anywhere they may lead at this point. Much to my surprise, the biggest challenge of my latest Erstwhile acquisition is the Rowe/Nakamura... much as I try, I'm still not FEELING the sinewave thing just yet - I noticed that I was trying to listen *through* the sinewaves to discern the elements that were purely Rowe... That said, I'm continually grateful that Jon's out there documenting this music (not to mention kindly pointing me towards other fine things like 'Printer') and I shall continue to listen, learn and challenge myself. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - J.S. Bach, Partita No. 2, Hilary Hahn (Sony Classical) -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Whit Schonbein 3. thumbs up to both the greg kelly/jason lescalleet ('forlorn green') and the stilluppsteypa/tv pow ('we are everyone in the room') releases on jon's erstwhile label (www.erstwhilerecords.com). i'm having slightly more trouble getting into the cor fuhler/gert-jan prins ('the flirts'), but it's been growing on me. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Matsumoto Subject: Re: Sam Rivers, Was: Re: ICP mixup Date: 02 Dec 2001 02:34:38 -0800 (PST) > Hey, I'm in Europe, so I have no idea if I am remotely up to date with this, > but last year (2000) his trio consisted of Doug Matthews on bass, and > Anthony Cole on drums. > > According to Coda Magazine 289 (by Greg Buium, jan/ feb 2000) Matthews > played acoustic and electric bass plus bassclarinet, Rivers also played > piano and flute, while Cole played drums and tenor saxophone. yes, that's all true - and I think that's still Sam's "current" trio. (it's also the lineup on his "Firestorm" CD from last year). I saw this trio play in San Francisco, and they were amazing. Sam's looking really old, as someone else pointed out, but he had plenty of energy and a great sense of humor. The show was great fun. Yes, Matthews plays both bass and bass clarinet ... but the really amazing one is Anthony Cole: drums, sax and *piano.* And my god, what a great touch he's got -- he opened one song with a long piano solo, starting with dense lush chording and later venturing into Cecil territory. he's also got a long piano solo on "Firestorm." Great stuff, I hope we hear lots more from him. -- Craig Matsumoto Jazz Director, KZSU-FM (Stanford University) jazz@kzsu.stanford.edu KZSU - 90.1 FM P.O. Box 20510 Stanford, Calif. 94309 +1-650-623-4839 http://kzsu.org - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Taylor McLaren Subject: Sample-spotting question. Date: 02 Dec 2001 05:44:02 -0500 (EST) I feel unbelievably lame for asking this one, so I'll keep it short. I was listening to Kevin Martin's recent-ish comp. "Collision Course", last night, and started sample-spotting in Bomb20's "Wing Chun". Does anybody know where the (presumably sped-up) words "no use swimming, so I might as well drown" came from? -moi _______________________________________________________ Build your own website in minutes and for free at http://ca.geocities.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= Subject: Re: Newbie question Date: 02 Dec 2001 14:34:48 +0100 > hey all. I recently discovered John Zorn's genius talent through Xu > Feng, which was quite a challenging work to digest. I moved on to > Masada and Naked City, and found Xu Feng to be quite enjoyable. > My question is, what's the verdict on Xu Feng? How do people listen to > it and analyse it HI, I love the album and can perfectly listen to it in one sitting. However, it's the only example of recorded Cobra performances that I've enjoyed to date. "Xu Feng" is one of Zorn's most dynamic recordings (besides NC and Masada, of course) and the performers are just amazing. Lets see what happens w/ the January release. BTW, I don't think it's really appropiate to drive with this "soundtrack" in particular. Be careful!! :) Best, Efrén del Valle n.p: Carlos Bica & Azul "Twist" (Enja) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew Mitchell" Subject: yay for Erstwhile Date: 02 Dec 2001 10:9:2 -0500 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hell yes, me too. I've discovered tons of new music and musicians through the 'Erstwhile axis,' and I wouldn't say that I've even really disliked anything I've purchased on that label. I must say its been frankly dominating my listening fairly heavily over the past 6 months or so. That and a healthy dose of death metal/grindcore and post-war avant-garde classical music. -mm That said, I'm continually grateful that Jon's out there documenting this music (not to mention kindly pointing me towards other fine things like 'Printer') and I shall continue to listen, learn and challenge myself. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Hell yes, me too.  I've discovered tons of new music and musicians through the 'Erstwhile axis,' and I wouldn't say that I've even really disliked anything I've purchased on that label.  I must say its been frankly dominating my listening fairly heavily over the past 6 months or so.  That and a healthy dose of death metal/grindcore and post-war avant-garde classical music.
 
-mm
 
That said, I'm continually grateful that Jon's out there documenting this
music (not to mention kindly pointing me towards other fine things like
'Printer') and I shall continue to listen, learn and challenge myself.
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bza" Subject: Re: Sample-spotting question. Date: 02 Dec 2001 16:35:46 +0100 It's from Masta Ace "The Other Part of the Town" : "I can't even reach what others have in their clutch I wish I could go on, but I have to end this And get back to livin a life that is winless There's no use swimmin, so I might as well drown in my sorrows Cause tomorrow's the other side of town" It's on the "Take a look around" album. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 11:44 AM > > I feel unbelievably lame for asking this one, so I'll > keep it short. I was listening to Kevin Martin's > recent-ish comp. "Collision Course", last night, and > started sample-spotting in Bomb20's "Wing Chun". Does > anybody know where the (presumably sped-up) words "no > use swimming, so I might as well drown" came from? > > -moi > > > _______________________________________________________ > Build your own website in minutes and for free at http://ca.geocities.com > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: RE: bbc radio show + o'rourke/mueller question Date: 02 Dec 2001 09:43:27 -0600 (CST) On Sat, 1 Dec 2001, Steve Smith wrote: > I also really dug the Dorner/Drumm. One of my first acquisitions from erstwhile, and still one of my favorites > The Kelly/Lescalleet is my fave of the recent releases, and I don't > doubt that it's most likely due to the fact that, as a human and a > musician (albeit non-practicing), I can relate to Kelly's need to > breathe - and thus can interpolate myself into his music no matter how > far flung it may be. I thought about mentioning this myself. The presence of a traditional wind operated instrument lends a certain familiarity to the work which is comforting. the extended techniques then serve to blend this familiarity into the sonic terrain of lescalleets tapes (and i gather that lescalleet is also using samples of the trumpet to construct these terrains, hence the very effective blending). very nice. > much as I try, I'm still not FEELING the > sinewave thing just yet Me neither. I loved the use of sinewave on Yoshihide's 'Cathode'. But the (mostly) all-sinewave icepick-in-your-head approach of Toshimaru Nakamura/Sachiko M left me unsatisfied (actually, i'm not even sure i've ever made it all the way through). It is challenging to listen to, and it is interesting (for example, move to a different place in the room and it as if you are hearing a different performance), and i think it qualifies as music (contrary to the opinions of some of my friends), but i still don't really get it, except in an intellecutalized way. (that's also what i thought of coltrane many many years ago...) one thing i've always wondered with sine wave performers is why they seem to restrict themselves to high pitches, when sine waves can of course be of any frequency. i suppose it must be a limitation of the equipment being used? or perhaps it's just a conscious decision to pick a group of sounds with a certain feel, and that happens to be the high end of the sonic spectrum? just curious, whit np - the hum of my computer, the footsteps of my upstairs neighbor, etc. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Theo Klaase Subject: Massacre - Meltdown/Naked City Date: 02 Dec 2001 09:06:02 -0800 (PST) --0-287650230-1007312762=:32271 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii How do you zorners like this new Massacre Live release "Meltdown"? Blistering, burning, un-ending, impovs that just shake the foundations of your ear-drums, aye? Does someone have a tentative date for the live Naked City release? I can't sleep... -Theo Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. --0-287650230-1007312762=:32271 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

How do you zorners like this new Massacre Live release "Meltdown"?   Blistering, burning, un-ending, impovs that just shake the foundations of your ear-drums, aye? 

Does someone have a tentative date for the live Naked City release?  I can't sleep...

-Theo


Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. --0-287650230-1007312762=:32271-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Zorn at Miller Theatre Date: 02 Dec 2001 15:15:43 -0500 In actuality, the concert began with the Absolute Ensemble performing Zorn's 'For Your Eyes Only.' Zorn then came out with Masada for a straightforward 20-minute mini-set at the edge of the stage. The strings of the Absolute Ensemble came back out for 'Kol Nidre,' then the entire ensemble played 'Contes de fee,' Zorn's recent violin concerto. There was no interaction between Masada and the orchestra, and nothing you could really remotely relate to Bar Kokhba. Steve Smith smsith36@sprynet.com NP - something by Abbey Lincoln on my girlfriend's boombox in the next room... -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Remco Takken Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 10:00 AM > special guest appearance: > John Zorn, saxophone > Dave Douglas, trumpet > Greg Cohen, bass > Kenny Wolleson, drums > So, this is supposed to be a classical concert, where you would expect 'Bar Kokhba/ Issachar/ Circle Maker' adaptations of Masada tunes. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brian Olewnick" Subject: Weather Sky/Erstwhile Date: 02 Dec 2001 16:23:05 -0500 Rowe/Nakamura's 'Weather Sky' is my favorite disc of the year. I wrote a lengthier review of it for allmusic.com, but essentially I think it breaks significant new ground in the field, is endlessly fascinating in its depth and interplay and is simply gorgeous to listen to. Rowe, in his early 60's, manages to sound relatively unlike any of his previous work playing, as I hear it, kind of a sonic sculptor to Nakamura's general matrix of hums, throbs, etc. nudging it here, prodding it there, all with incredible sensitivity. It's tough, sure, but incredibly rewarding. While offering the disclaimer that Jon's a friend, I thought Erstwhile was the best label around last year and it's only gotten better in 2001. Prior to 'Weather Sky', 'dach' and 'do' were two of my favorite releases of the year and several of the others, including the most recent 'Right After' and 'Forlorn Green' aren't far behind. By limiting his output to eight a year and, of course, by exercising superb judgment, Erstwhile easily has the highest "batting average" of any label I'm aware of, large or small. There were a few other individual releases I'd rank pretty close to 'Weather Sky' this year (we'll wait for a while...) but Erst is way over-represented in my tabulations! Listers who have yet to check out any Erst product owe it to themselves to do so. Brian Olewnick NP: Guy/Crispell/Lytton - Odyssey - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert Subject: azul twist Date: 02 Dec 2001 23:08:43 +0100 --Apple-Mail-1--1041047641 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed This album is definitely not bad at all. It has Jim Black rythming = things=20 up. Efr=E9n del Valle was now playing: > n.p: Carlos Bica & Azul "Twist" (Enja) greetings, Rob @ risk np: ruckus - dave douglas --Apple-Mail-1--1041047641 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 This album is definitely not bad at all. It has Jim Black rythming things up. Efr=E9n del Valle was now playing: n.p: Carlos Bica & Azul "Twist" (Enja) greetings, Rob @ risk np: ruckus - dave douglas= --Apple-Mail-1--1041047641-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: Re: O'rourke / Mueller question Date: 02 Dec 2001 23:21:10 -0600 (CST) Jon Abbey wrote: "M=FCller/O'Rourke was on the 23rd, and Klaxon Guele was on the 21st. I recal= l=20 being disappointed by the M=FCller/O'Rourke set, but seeing that, then L=EA=20= Quan=20 Ninh the following day, was where the idea for La Voyelle Liquide came from." thanks for the info. the o'rourke/muller performance was broadcast on CBC radio, which got me curious about the date. regarding the actual performance, one is immediately reminded of 'Le Voyelle Liquide', primarily because of the unique effects used by mueller appear in both works. Le Voyelle Liquide works better, to my ears (perhaps because there is some sort of structural affinity between the aforementioned effects and those noises produced by Ninh), but i nonetheless found o'rourke's contributions quite enjoyable (assuming that what i took to be his contributions were actually his and not mueller's). it was (very) roughly as if fennez'o'berg met mueller. i wonder if i would have found it as interesting if i had had to sit and witness it performed live... whit np - kelly/lescallet - 'forlorn green' - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Fwd: azul twist Date: 03 Dec 2001 15:58:59 +0100 (CET) > > This album is definitely not bad at all. It has Jim > Black rythming things > up. > > Efrén del Valle was now playing: > > > n.p: Carlos Bica & Azul "Twist" (Enja) > I found the album pretty good. Black is superb here and the guitar player, Frank Möbus, is also really good. Kind of a Bill Frisell-Marc Ducret mixture, IMHO. Carlos Bica's playing didn't really get me (would you say that in English? Don't think so) but it's a good composer, not that original but the songs are beautiful. The album has a poppy vein all through. Best, Efrén del Valle _______________________________________________________________ El Nokia 5510, un aspecto extraño, un sonido genial. Visite http://es.promotions.yahoo.com/nokia/ descubra el Nokia 5510 y ¡lléveselo! El concurso acaba el 16 de diciembre de 2001. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kasra@ou.edu Subject: squarepusher Date: 03 Dec 2001 09:42:52 -0600 (CST) I recently bought Squarepusher's "Go Plastic" and was wondering if anybody could make some recommendations of another album of his to buy. Thanks, kasra - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Blechmann Subject: Re: Fwd: azul twist Date: 03 Dec 2001 18:35:19 +0100 edv> I found the album pretty good. Black is superb here edv> and the guitar player, Frank Möbus, is also really edv> good. Kind of a Bill Frisell-Marc Ducret mixture, edv> IMHO. Carlos Bica's playing didn't really get me edv> (would you say that in English? Don't think so) but edv> it's a good composer, not that original but the songs edv> are beautiful. The album has a poppy vein all through. if you like Frank Möbus then check out his stuff with Rudi Mahall. They've got a group called "Der Rote Bereich". One of their recordings features Jim Black, too. Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.net ICQ: 96771783 http://nav.to/timblech -- The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!" Jack Kerouac - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rudy Carrera" Subject: Introduction Date: 03 Dec 2001 10:05:28 -0800 Hello; I've joined a few mailing lists, and haven't visited some in some time, so I thought I'd re-introduce myself. I'm Rudy Carrera, and currently I reside in the Los Angeles area of the United States (until 2002 August, when I relocate to Macedonia). I run two records labels here, small ones, called Falcata-Galia and Tariff Records (in partnership with Favid Katznelson of Birdman Records, among others). Activity has been very quiet due to a strain on funds, but we will be active again in January 2002 with a bunch of new releases. My musical interests are pretty wide (free jazz, experimental/industrial [old-school], prog rock, ethnic music, modern classical and electronica, latin and euro pop (on occasion, anyway), and a really healthy obsession with music from Eastern Europe, the Maghreb, and Central Asia. Feel free to contact me or visit the sites for more. Best, Rudy Carrera Falçata-Galia Recordings and Tariff Records PO Box 134 Rialto, California 92377 USA http://www.falcata-galia.com http://come.to/tariffrecs - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Trenkel Subject: Re: squarepusher Date: 03 Dec 2001 10:18:22 -0800 At 9:42 AM -0600 12/3/2001, kasra@ou.edu wrote: >I recently bought Squarepusher's "Go Plastic" and was wondering if anybody >could make some recommendations of another album of his to buy. >Thanks, >kasra While it pretty much sounds nothing like "Go Plastic", I really like his "Music is Rotted One Note" and "Budakon Mindphone". These were lauded as his "jazz phase" when they came out, and garnered a lot of comparisons to electric-period Miles Davis, I hear them as being closer to Brand X or early Soft Machine, which is not meant as a dis, I like both of those bands. Fairly melodic, leaning towards fusion but not particularly wanky, lots of electric piano, and Jenkinson's hyperactive electric bass chops are wisely restrained. Both of these are very nice records. "Hard Normal Daddy" is more in the style of "Go Plastic", though not as advanced. His first album, "Feed Me Weird Things" has not held up for me as well as his other works, there's a kind of cheesy pop-jazz sensibility that, while it sounded pretty fresh at the time, hasn't aged well. -- Dave Trenkel New and Improv Music http://www.newandimprov.com improv@peak.org Now Available: Minus: Dark Lit "This is music all-consuming in its beauty and power" -Jake TenPas OSU Daily Barometer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: squarepusher Date: 03 Dec 2001 13:30:09 -0500 I think the first two albums, 'Feed Me Weird Things' and 'Hard Normal Daddy' are both terrific drum'n'bass things, the latter leaning a bit more towards a predilection for jazz fusion wankery but not in a bad way. The U.S. version of the EP 'Big Loada' is also highly recommended, as I believe it includes the contents of the earlier EPs 'Port Rhombus' and 'Vic Acid.' Twisted, kinetic and full of event. 'Burningn 'N Tree' is a helpful collection of Jenkinson's earliest pre-LP singles originally issued on Spymania. Many hardcore fans think this is his strongest stuff, but I still favor the things mentioned above. In fact, if it's still available, the 'Big Loada' super-EP is possibly the very best place to start. The later 'Music Is One Rotted Note' and 'Budakhan Mindphone' both go more deeply into a stoned kind of live fusion, with less drum'n'bass and more live instruments, meandering out of a late-Miles mindset. Not as immediately catchy as the earlier stuff, but again, I like 'em. Some of the earlier things might be hard to find at the moment, because the Warp label has recently opened a US branch and is currently in the process of laying out the back catalogue again. Judging from your e-mail address (Ohio State?), I'm guessing that this applies. The 'Big Loada' disc that I mentioned was one of the ones reissued by Trent Reznor's Nothing label, and I don't know whether that same configuration will be kept for the Warp US reissue. I noticed in the latest issue of Pulse that some of the early Warp things (like Autechre's 'Chiastic Slide') are being reissued now and early in the coming year. I'm sure Warp maintains a website that could tell you more, and the last time I checked (a few years ago, admittedly), Squarepusher had his own site, too. Hope this helps. I've not yet heard 'Go Plastic' (though that's the newest one with the single 'Big Red Car,' right?) so I don't know how it compares to the earlier stuff. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of kasra@ou.edu Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 10:43 AM I recently bought Squarepusher's "Go Plastic" and was wondering if anybody could make some recommendations of another album of his to buy. Thanks, kasra - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis Subject: Re: squarepusher Date: 03 Dec 2001 14:27:27 -0600 The album that's really the most like Go Plastic is Selection Sixteen. There's a lot of the same sort of "abstract" feel to it and sound/noise elements - in fact, it's the album of his I first heard and loved and got me hooked on 'dance music'; I never knew dance music could be so far-out there (and look at me now, eh?). Another released at this time was the Maximum Priest EP which has a lot of that sound as well. The other earlier albums listed here are, as mentioned, a lot more... uh, well, I was going to say "traditional", but they're more traditional "Squarepusher", though I'm not even sure what that really means. Big Loada, Feed Me Weird Things, Selection Sixteen all change places as my favorite Squarepusher of the week... 2nd to Go Plastic. :) In essense, those two (and most the earlier stuff) - oh and Budakhan Mindphone! - have more pervasive elements of drum n bass: still wonderful, still really screwed up stuff and pure genius, but not nearly as edgy as Sel16 and GP. Also, there is a new untitled 12" EP that Warp announced that is currently "out of stock"... I'm waiting with baited breath to get it, 2 minutes of a realaudio clip gave me the impression it's very Go Plastic in nature. Music is Rotted One Note is very much the antithesis to Go Plastic, it's the last album of TJ's that I would recommend if you're looking for something akin to this latest effort. In fact, there are tracks on that album which are directly referenced on Go Plastic: "Don't Go Plastic" and "My Sound" are two of them (the song on Go Plastic is called "My Fucking Sound"). A lot of people really dig this album and like it as their favorite Squarepusher, but it's probably the Squarepusher album I listen to the most because it's just too square on the jazz side of things, if you know what I mean. If the jazz elements on MRON were a bit more 'out' then I'd adore it. :) This reminds me also of a similar outing by cevin key, who has a saxophone solo on one of the tracks in his new album. It's a really hokey 'bluesy' jazz sax solo, and it ruins the entire track for me. Hope this helps. mrd http://craque.net On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 09:42:52AM -0600, kasra@ou.edu wrote: > I recently bought Squarepusher's "Go Plastic" and was wondering if anybody > could make some recommendations of another album of his to buy. > Thanks, > kasra > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben Axelrad" Subject: Re: Sample-spotting question/Masta Ace Date: 03 Dec 2001 14:39:04 -0600 Hi, Sorry to nitpick, but I think that was before the name change, so it should be listed under Master Ace (Cold Chillin' records). I read in the Onion's review of his new album that he was just released from prison. Does anyone know the charges/length of sentence? I was always under the impression, at least from his more socially conscious material (e.g. the underrated "Slaughtahouse" sp?), that he would stay away from trouble.... Thanks, Ben >From: "Bza" >To: "John Zorn ML" >Subject: Re: Sample-spotting question. >Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 16:35:46 +0100 > >It's from Masta Ace "The Other Part of the Town" : > >"I can't even reach what others have in their clutch >I wish I could go on, but I have to end this >And get back to livin a life that is winless >There's no use swimmin, so I might as well drown in my sorrows >Cause tomorrow's the other side of town" > >It's on the "Take a look around" album. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Taylor McLaren" >To: "Zornithology" >Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 11:44 AM >Subject: Sample-spotting question. > > > > > > I feel unbelievably lame for asking this one, so I'll > > keep it short. I was listening to Kevin Martin's > > recent-ish comp. "Collision Course", last night, and > > started sample-spotting in Bomb20's "Wing Chun". Does > > anybody know where the (presumably sped-up) words "no > > use swimming, so I might as well drown" came from? > > > > -moi > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > > Build your own website in minutes and for free at >http://ca.geocities.com > > > > - > > > > >- > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis Subject: Re: squarepusher Date: 03 Dec 2001 14:33:14 -0600 On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 02:27:27PM -0600, Matthew Ross Davis wrote: > really dig this album and like it as their favorite Squarepusher, but it's > probably the Squarepusher album I listen to the most because it's just too This should say that I listen to the LEAST. Sorry about that! m http://craque.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert Subject: azul twist Date: 03 Dec 2001 22:32:46 +0100 This album is definitely not bad at all. It has Jim Black rythming = things=20 up. Efr=E9n del Valle was now playing: > n.p: Carlos Bica & Azul "Twist" (Enja) greetings, Rob @ risk np: ruckus - dave douglas - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bza" Subject: Re: Sample-spotting question/Masta Ace Date: 03 Dec 2001 22:56:50 +0100 Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 9:39 PM > Sorry to nitpick, but I think that was before the name change, so it should > be listed under Master Ace (Cold Chillin' records). Yeah you're maybe right. I think it's from the time he was in the Juice Crew. > I was always under the impression, at > least from his more socially conscious material (e.g. the underrated > "Slaughtahouse" sp?), that he would stay away from trouble.... i agree with you........could you imagine Chuck D or Krs One in jail ?????? :) and yes Slaughtahouse is not only underrated, it's one of the best rap album ever. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew" Subject: Re: squarepusher Date: 03 Dec 2001 17:05:33 -0500 > At 9:42 AM -0600 12/3/2001, kasra@ou.edu wrote: > >I recently bought Squarepusher's "Go Plastic" and was wondering if anybody > >could make some recommendations of another album of his to buy. > >Thanks, I'd pick up "Big Loada", and go from there. "Feed me weird things" and "hard normal daddy" are about to be re-released in the US at normal, domestic prices by Warp, but I'm actually not too big on either of those records. My favorite SP phase is the "music is rotted one note" and "budakhan mindphone" era; it has that really chaotic mix of dub/fusion...ultra-wet reverbs, crazy live-basslines, drum-kit drenched in reverb, rhodes....just great, but not really electronic at all. The "budakhan mindphone" EP mixes his "normal" drum-n-bass production with the jazz and dubby sounds. If you're a big Squarepusher fan, have you checked out mU-Ziq? He's my favorite out of the Richard D. James/Squarepusher/Autechre, etc. club.....bouncy synth-melodies, hyperactive percussion...basically, he's just awesome. His first record, "Tango n' vectif" was just re-released in the US, and is highly reccomended. Just a personal note...with the exception of "my red hot car" and the last track, I thought "go plastic" was pretty crappy... andrew - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: squarepusher Date: 03 Dec 2001 18:04:55 -0500 I'm personally a huge fan of Mu-Ziq's 'Lunatic Harness' CD and the follow-up EP, 'Brace Yourself.' Haven't heard 'Tango n' vectif' and was kinda bored by 'In Pine Effect.' Tangentally related, Plug's 'Drum'n'Bass for Papa' and Cujo's 'Adventures in Foam' are two favorites of mine, the latter complete with Zorn, Shorter and Cooder samples. I also liked the first Jega album on Planet Mu, 'Spectrum,' but haven't heard anything by him since. Wow, it's been kind of a long time since we've talked about this area of music. Who's out there making new music worth hearing in this field? I keep reading about a Bogdan something-or-other... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Andrew If you're a big Squarepusher fan, have you checked out mU-Ziq? He's my favorite out of the Richard D. James/Squarepusher/Autechre, etc. club.....bouncy synth-melodies, hyperactive percussion...basically, he's just awesome. His first record, "Tango n' vectif" was just re-released in the US, and is highly reccomended. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis Subject: Re: squarepusher Date: 03 Dec 2001 17:23:33 -0600 On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 06:04:55PM -0500, Steve Smith wrote: > Wow, it's been kind of a long time since we've talked about this area of > music. Who's out there making new music worth hearing in this field? I keep > reading about a Bogdan something-or-other... Raczynski - he's one of the many that contribute to the whole "Rephlex" sound, which has come to be called "drill'n'bass" - very hyper, jagged, experimental sounding drum'n'bass elements. He just released a new one called "My Love I Love" which I haven't heard yet, but want to pick up. If you're willing to try, this is the area of music I've been involved with for some time now - experimenting with improvisation and experimental sound, combining these into making music - http://craque.net has some studio tracks and live performances to check out. If you go to http://craque.net/lure.html you can see a good list of folks that have influenced me which fall into this area of music, and that are doing music worth hearing. Specifically Vladislav Delay and his projects are among my most favorite right now - also the usual suspects of Kid606, Matmos, Scanner and of course, Aphex Twin. I've been recently very interested in a lot of what Slicker (John Hughes III, son of the director) has been doing - I especially like a lot of the collaborative work being done on the Hefty label (where Raczynski also has some music released). Also associated with Hefty is Richard Devine, who somewhat falls into that drill'n'bass category as well, but has something of his own sound. Also among my favorites: jan jelinek (aka Farben) and the ubiquitous Kit Clayton... his work with different areas of abstract sound and dance music would suit I think a great deal of people on this list. Other folks on the Sonig and Thrill Jockey labels (Mouse on Mars, Lithops, Microstoria, Oval) do a great deal of experimental sounding in their work as well, but my favorite guy from that group is most definitely Nobukazu Takemura, who - like Kit Clayton - can span a wide range of styles and techniques in one sitting. Enough names to get the discussion started? :) m - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "richard ladew" Subject: Anode Date: 03 Dec 2001 17:51:26 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C17C23.213F9840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Any opinions on the new Otomo Yoshihide recording Anode? ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C17C23.213F9840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Any opinions on the new Otomo Yoshihide = recording=20 Anode?
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C17C23.213F9840-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: a few discs to let-- Date: 03 Dec 2001 19:11:36 -0500 Yes it's spam, but it's GOOD spam! The two new Threadgills: $20 postpaid. First response first served. Best, Rick Lopez ---------- [ All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ] Sessionographies : CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies : COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN. Also : --Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN; HARD BOIL; ETC., WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : LUCILLE / A Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: the deal has been done... Date: 03 Dec 2001 19:37:16 -0500 Thanks to all who responded to the Threadgill offer.. [Damn, that was *easy*...] rl ---------- [ All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ] Sessionographies : CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies : COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN. Also : --Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN; HARD BOIL; ETC., WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : LUCILLE / A Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Trenkel Subject: RE: squarepusher Date: 03 Dec 2001 19:03:51 -0800 (PST) > I'm personally a huge fan of Mu-Ziq's 'Lunatic Harness' CD and the > follow-up EP, 'Brace Yourself.' Haven't heard 'Tango n' vectif' and was > kinda bored by 'In Pine Effect.' > > Tangentally related, Plug's 'Drum'n'Bass for Papa' and Cujo's > 'Adventures in Foam' are two favorites of mine, the latter complete > with Zorn, Shorter and Cooder samples. I also liked the first Jega > album on Planet Mu, 'Spectrum,' but haven't heard anything by him > since. > > Wow, it's been kind of a long time since we've talked about this area > of music. Who's out there making new music worth hearing in this field? > I keep reading about a Bogdan something-or-other... > > I'm really liking the new Flanger disc, Outer Space/Inner Space. It's Burnt Friedman and Atom Heart, collaborating with some European jazz guys, incl. Joseph Suchy on guitar, and a group of Chilean percussionists. It sounds to me like the Headhunters subjected to the glitch school of editing. Very nice stuff that really blurs the distinction between live playing and programming. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Weather Sky/Erstwhile Date: 03 Dec 2001 21:59:46 EST thanks to all for the kind words regarding the recent Erstwhile releases, really nice to read. I'm hesitant to join in on the discussion of the records, but I'd like to let people know that there will be some chances to see some of this music live in the US over the next few months, which, as with any genre, is pretty crucial for full appreciation. below is detailed info on the NYC shows. I'll forward full US tour schedules to the list as the tours begin, as I did with the Butcher tour recently. any reports on the Butcher/Hemingway duo shows this past week? 12/11: John Butcher/Phil Durrant's electromanipulation duo, Experimental Intermedia, 224 Centre St., 9 PM, $5. the NYC premiere of this project in a great venue for them. 1/14: double CD release party featuring Greg Kelley, Jason Lescalleet, Giuseppe Ielasi and Domenico Sciajno. three sets, duo, duo, and the world premiere of the quartet. Tonic, starting at 8 PM, $10. 2/2: three sets again, Keith Rowe solo (performing excerpts from Cardew's Treatise), Gunter Muller/Taku Sugimoto duo (Taku's first NYC appearance in quite some time, 3 or 4 years), Rowe/Muller/Sugimoto trio (first performance together anywhere in more than two years, since the night they recorded World Turned Upside Down). this is also at Tonic starting at 8, not sure of the price. it'd be great to get good turnouts at these shows, and it would definitely make it easier for me to book similar shows in NYC in the future. please pass this info on to anyone you think might be interested. thanks! also, my next festival, AMPLIFY 2002, will take place in Tokyo in mid-October of next year. this is going to be an incredible event, more details as we get closer. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brian Olewnick" Subject: Re: Anode Date: 03 Dec 2001 22:08:13 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C17C47.00662160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Any opinions on the new Otomo Yoshihide recording Anode? I'm pretty fascinated by it. It's a pretty drastic formulation for = improv within compositional restrictions. In these case, Otomo sets a = few rules like not responding to what other musicians play (to the = extent that's even possible), playing a new, different note or tone = before your preceding one has dissipated, etc. At first, I was a little = put off by the "calculatedness" of it and though some of the pieces were = on the surface exciting but at core passionless. Gradually, I've come to = think I was listening to it the "wrong way", ie, like traditional free = improv pieces and have come to really enjoy it. This probably makes = little sense, but I think Otomo might be onto something here... Brian Olewnick NP: Bale Seni Megasari - Java: Kecapi Suling ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C17C47.00662160 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 
>Any opinions on the new Otomo = Yoshihide=20 recording Anode?
 
I'm pretty fascinated by it. It's a = pretty=20 drastic formulation for improv within compositional restrictions. In = these=20 case, Otomo sets a few rules like not responding to what other = musicians play=20 (to the extent that's even possible), playing a new, different note or = tone=20 before your preceding one has dissipated, etc. At first, I was a = little put=20 off by the "calculatedness" of it and though some of the pieces were = on the=20 surface exciting but at core passionless. Gradually, I've come to = think I was=20 listening to it the "wrong way", ie, like traditional free improv = pieces=20 and have come to really enjoy it. This probably makes little sense, = but I=20 think Otomo might be onto something here...
 
Brian Olewnick
 
NP: Bale Seni Megasari - Java: Kecapi = Suling
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C17C47.00662160-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stinkipipi@aol.com Subject: trades? Date: 03 Dec 2001 22:40:38 EST i'm looking for a batch of stuff, mostly on tzadik. i have a lot of stuff on the knitting factory and shimmy disc labels. some still wrapped. let me know what you're looking for if you're interested and have what i want. i'm only looking for trades, though, at the moment i'm not looking to sell the discs outright. here's what i'm after : ronald shannon jackson : talkeye ronald shannon jackson : red warrior (knitting factory reissue) raz mesinai : before the law john zorn : trembling before g-d john zorn : filmworks x masada : live at tonic 2001 thanks for looking dave - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: parry@macconnect.com Subject: The Amazing Anthony Cole Date: 03 Dec 2001 22:54:42 -0600 When Sam Rivers played those 75th birthday gigs at Sweet Basil's a while back, a lot of the NYC guys were hovering around Anthony, and I gathered there were attempts to lure him northward. However, he always seemed pretty happy being a Florida slacker and has carved out a nice niche for himself in Orlando, playing w/ Sam and otherwise sort of drifting from band to band. He was leading a funk outfit called Kow for a while, playing guitar and keyboards and singing. (They were fun but didn't seem to be able to get it together to write songs, everything was just a long jam.) Anthony's one of those guys who make other musicians gnash their teeth. You can put any new instrument in front of him, and within 10 minutes he's playing it better than guys who've been practicing for years. He also has a really nice voice. (His mom, Linda, is a fantastic jazz vocalist.) Anthony would show up at Sam's big band rehearsals w/ just a kick drum, a snare and a cymbal and play astonishing stuff. He's very imaginative, and has this ability to detonate a whole series of exposions w/o telegraphing his intentions at all, so it really takes you by surprise. Most guys, you can tell when they're getting ready for a big moment, they puff themselves up and start swinging big, but Anthony can be blowing the roof off the place and he kind of moves like he's just looking for his socks or something. Two of my other favorite drummers are similarly deceptive -- Tom Ardolino from NRBQ, who often has an expression like someone enjoying a pleasant daydream during a familiar commute, and Malcolm Travis from Sugar, who always gazed down at his kit, brow furrowed, with the intense focus of somebody re-taking their SATs. Anthony's a more arresting player than Doug Mathews (w/ one "T"), but I wonder if he'd be able to play as well himself in a trio w/ a flashier bassist. I think the fact that Doug is steady as a rock and has a really supportive, intelligent style lets Anthony do a lot of what he does. The three of them really have a great balance, style and personality-wise. They all have sly senses of humor. I remember one show at a little bar in Melbourne, FL, where the stuff they were playing was so crazy and so brilliant, people in the audience were just laughing giddily and socking each other. Some of the best shows the trio played were at a coffee bar in Melbourne that was always jammed w/ kids in their early 20s for the trio gigs, and they'd just scream and holler when something grabbed them. Sam always looked so at home there. The trio always went over great w/ the college crowd at this dive called the Covered Dish in Gainesville, too. It was fun to see the pile of misplaced shoes on the dance floor at the end of the night. Parry - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew" Subject: mu-ziq/glitch/IDM Date: 04 Dec 2001 01:09:30 -0500 > I'm personally a huge fan of Mu-Ziq's 'Lunatic Harness' CD and the follow-up > EP, 'Brace Yourself.' Haven't heard 'Tango n' vectif' and was kinda bored by > 'In Pine Effect.' "Lunatic Harness" is my favorite..."Tango n' Vectif" is just great, too- pure synths, no samples. > I also liked the first Jega album on Planet Mu, 'Spectrum,' > but haven't heard anything by him since. > Wow, it's been kind of a long time since we've talked about this area of > music. Who's out there making new music worth hearing in this field? I keep > reading about a Bogdan something-or-other... mU-Ziq's "Planet mU" record label just puts out one great thing after another.... he (mu-Ziq/mike paradinas) put out a record on there last year under the name "Kid Spatula" called "Full Sunken Breaks" which was seriously a return to his old ultra-poppy drill-n-bass sound (as opposed to the semi-crappy "Royal Astronomy" record, which dabbled with orchestral and tech-step sounds). It's ("full sunken breaks") a great record, and worth checking out if you dig "lunatic harness" and that era of his sound. Bogdan Raczynski's "My love I love" came out recently- it's very "pastoral"- warm acoustic sounds and accordions, with bent voices a la "Windowlicker" by Aphex Twin. It's very soothing and even beautiful. I'm not a big fan of his other albums, which were SO abstract and noisy and messy and just nuts. Other movers out there- Kid 606 and his label, "Tigerbeat 6" (www.tigerbeat6.com) just put out one great thing after another. My personal favorite is Cex- his record "role model" is glitchy, but much more melodic and less noisy than 606's- Cex is more toward the hip hop end of the spectrum, with occasional stuttered hip hop slams and vocal bits. Of course, he occasionally goes nuts with the hardcore crazy beats, but either way, it's good. Anything on Tigerbeat 6, really- Cex, Blechtom from Blectum, Electric Company, Dat Politics, Hrvatski, etc. - they're like an american answer to Rephlex, but they all have a wicked sense of humor and slightly punk attitiude, with no pretence. And, they're all like 20 years old. I really like how artists are already beginning to apply glitch to other genres, rather than just doing "glitch for glitch's sake" (Markus Popp/Oval, and crew). The latest "Clicks and Cuts" and "Click Hop: Electric Ladyland" on Mille Plateaux show people doing new things- glitch-house, click-hop, stuttered breakbeat....good stuff is on the way. andrew - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Revue des Fossiles" Subject: Re: Anode Date: 03 Dec 2001 22:28:56 -0800 simply the finest realization and extension of takayangi's concepts regarding improvisation available. perhaps our favorite cd of the year, followed closely by the the new ground that erstwhile continues breaking with each release. np. toshirou mayazumi/hirosi siotani - oto no hajimari wo motomete. - rdf. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: mu-ziq/glitch/IDM Date: 03 Dec 2001 22:32:55 -0800 Andrew wrote: > > And, they're all like 20 years old. Well, except for Electric Company ... if he's like 20 years old, he wasn't toilet-trained yet when he put out the first Debt of Nature cassette. (Of course, some would use that cassette of evidence of just that, but ...) -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "For children are innocent and love justice; while most of us are wicked and naturally prefer mercy" -- G.K. Chesterton np: The Fireman, _Rushes_ nr: Charles Brockden Brown, _Wieland, or The Transformation_ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Anode Date: 04 Dec 2001 02:11:29 EST In a message dated 12/4/01 1:30:00 AM, revuedesfossiles@hotmail.com writes: << simply the finest realization and extension of takayangi's concepts regarding improvisation available. >> can you elaborate on what you mean by this? I'm aware that Otomo says in his liner notes that "I think the music of Takayangi Masayuki has been a huge influence on me in recent years.", and I'm pretty familiar with Takayanagi's work, at least what's been released on CD thus far. I do hear some connection, but I'd like to know what you mean by your statement. what are "takayangi's concepts regarding improvisation"? it's also noteworthy that Otomo studied under Takayanagi (why do both he and you drop the second "a"? is that a transliteration thing?), but they had a falling-out, and Otomo promised to never describe himself as a student of Takayanagi's. unfortunately, Takayanagi died before this situation could be resolved, so Otomo's promise remains in place. I believe that only one student successfully graduated from Takayanagi's music school, Kazuo Imai. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Fwd: Anode Date: 04 Dec 2001 09:42:28 +0100 (CET) > > Any opinions on the new Otomo Yoshihide recording > Anode? > Hi, I just listened to "Anode" a couple of times and, to be true, it's a tough experience :-) Really extreme, so pay attention Merzbow fans. The first and last themes are massive, noise developements with a free-jazz drumming backdrop that helps it become a bit more listenable. I like noise but this was far too dense for my ears (maybe it just wasn't my day). The two remaining compositions have a slight John Cage mood (as it says in the black label that comes with all the Tzadik releases and I never remember the name of). I found these to be a little boring in comparison with the noisy stuff, but a good contrast anyway. They require further attention. No great insights, as you see. I'm convinced that Anode requires repeated listenings to be enjoyed as it deserves. All in all, an interesting Cd, but not among my favorite 2001 Tzadiks. Best, Efrén del Valle _______________________________________________________________ El Nokia 5510, un aspecto extraño, un sonido genial. Visite http://es.promotions.yahoo.com/nokia/ descubra el Nokia 5510 y ¡lléveselo! El concurso acaba el 16 de diciembre de 2001. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Erstwhile question Date: 04 Dec 2001 11:54:46 +0100 (CET) HI, Considering that everyone agrees on the overall quality of most of Erstwhile releases, I'd like to know if they have an European distributor. I've never seen one of their Cds in Spain but an European distrib would help me avoid online purchase, which I don't generally like too much. Thanks in advance, Efrén _______________________________________________________________ El Nokia 5510, un aspecto extraño, un sonido genial. Visite http://es.promotions.yahoo.com/nokia/ descubra el Nokia 5510 y ¡lléveselo! El concurso acaba el 16 de diciembre de 2001. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: Re: Erstwhile question Date: 04 Dec 2001 06:29:37 -0500 At 11:54 4/12/01 +0100, efr=E9n del valle wrote: >Considering that everyone agrees on the overall >quality of most of Erstwhile releases, I'd like to >know if they have an European distributor. I've never http://erstwhilerecords.com/distributors/distributors.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: New Electronica (was squarepusher) Date: 04 Dec 2001 11:53:00 +0000 >On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 06:04:55PM -0500, Steve Smith wrote: > > Wow, it's been kind of a long time since we've talked about this area of > > music. Who's out there making new music worth hearing in this field? I >keep > > reading about a Bogdan something-or-other... I've been listening to DJ Spooky's latest "Under the Influence" quite a bit. He goes for a very big, hyped up sound to be certain, but I think he pulls it off better in his latest than in some of his earlier work. I like the CD he has with Scanner as well. I've also enjoyed the latest by Techno Animal, "Brotherhood of the Bomb." I think I prefer Radio Hades since the latest is more focused on rap rather than just the trademark industrial processed sounds. I've been a bit of a sucker for the diasporic Brit-Indo-Pakistani locus of electronica--Loop Guru, State of Bengal, Banco de Gaia, which tends to surface on the Six Degrees label. I think Talvin Singh is pretty overrated but I've enjoyed his latest "Ha" as well as his earlier work this year with the Master Musicians of Jajouka. Law and Auder records in the UK is the center of a lot of DnB work. They have a couple of comps with Plug's Luke Vibert called, oddly enough, "Avantgardism." (Whose version, I ask). I like most of Muslimgauze's work though the more recently releases on his labels haven't been as impressive. I really liked the fifth and sixth editions of the Electric Ladyland comps on Mille Plateaux. Panacea is one of the most interesting of the newer DnB artists, and I enjoy Patric Catani and Kerosene as well. Does anyone have the new cliphop comp of Electric Ladyland? How is it? Also, what do people think about Raz Mesinai and his alter-ego Badawi? The first few releases were pretty so-so in my opinion, but I ordered the Tzadik release recently as well as the new one on ROIR. I'm curious about these. Other new electronica I've picked up include the latest Alva Noto, Ekkehard Ehler and Stephan Matthieu's "Heroin," Pan Sonic's Vakio and Aaltopiiri (sad to have arrived so late to these), TV Pow's Mort aux Vaches, Random Inc's "Jerusalem" and on the ambient wallpaper front, plenty of Delay, Pole, and Gas, whose first CD is my favorite, though I like them all. I bought Aube's "Ricochetentrance" a couple of years ago and I've been spinning it a lot recently. Are there Aube fans on the list? Any comments? On the avant-garde front--the abstract and jazzy versions--I've been buying FMP releases of late--more Brotzmann and Charles Gayle's trio with Parker and Ali. I sat through a good two hours of paper-grading accompaniment last evening and found both artists to be as immersive a soundtrack for the activity as the usual wallpaper that I listen to, which surprised me. I don't usually have a lot of time to truly "listen" to things but I was encouraged by the results from yesterday. I now have almost all of Sachiko M's work at this point, and though I can only handle sine waves for one or two nights every couple of weeks, I treasure both of the Nakamura duos and the Filament and ISO releases. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Re: Weather Sky/Erstwhile Date: 04 Dec 2001 11:59:25 +0000 >From: JonAbbey2@aol.com >Subject: Re: Weather Sky/Erstwhile > >also, my next festival, AMPLIFY 2002, will take place in Tokyo in >mid-October >of next year. this is going to be an incredible event, more details as we >get >closer. Great! If you could make it slightly toward the end side of October (the 19th and after), I could spend my exam week in Tokyo and catch the whole thing. I don't mean to have you schedule the event around me, however. :-) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Erstwhile question Date: 04 Dec 2001 10:04:08 EST In a message dated 12/4/01 5:56:08 AM, efrendv@yahoo.es writes: << Considering that everyone agrees on the overall quality of most of Erstwhile releases, I'd like to know if they have an European distributor. I've never seen one of their Cds in Spain but an European distrib would help me avoid online purchase, which I don't generally like too much. >> you're right, I have no Spanish distributor as of yet, although it hasn't been for lack of trying. your best bet is probably to order from Metamkine in France, or directly from me. the link that Benjamin posted is an up-to-date list of my distributors, which I'm constantly trying to improve. if you have any problems getting the discs you want, please e-mail me personally, and we'll figure out something. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Weather Sky/Erstwhile Date: 04 Dec 2001 10:07:14 EST In a message dated 12/4/01 7:10:28 AM, bashline@hotmail.com writes: << Great! If you could make it slightly toward the end side of October (the= =20 19th and after), I could spend my exam week in Tokyo and catch the whole=20 thing. I don't mean to have you schedule the event around me, however. :-)= =20 >> it's actually all set already. it'll be at Star Pine's Cafe in Tokyo from th= e=20 18th-20th, with the following lineup: 10/18 Sugimoto Guitar Quartet-Otomo, Nakamura, Sugimoto, Akiyama Cosmos-Sachiko/Yoshida Rowe/Lehn/Schmickler Stangl/Kurzmann 10/19 Otomo/M=FCller Lehn/Schmickler Stangl/Kurzmann/Sugimoto Rowe/Nakamura 10/20 Astro Twin-Kawasaki/Yoshida Stangl/M=FCller Nakamura/Sachiko Rowe/M=FCller/Sugimoto Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: freedom of the city realvideo Date: 04 Dec 2001 09:45:02 -0600 (CST) greetings. i was just on the bbc jazz on 3 website, and i noticed they have realvideo posted of many performances from the steve beresford-curated 'freedom of the city' festival. including evan parker, pat thomas, john butcher, strings with evan parker, london improvisors orch, etc. here's the link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/jazz/jon3/freedom/focintro.shtml my connection is too slow, so i haven't been able to check it out myself. -whit np - paul motian trio (the one with marc johnson and chris potter) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: Weather Sky/Erstwhile Date: 04 Dec 2001 17:01:09 +0100 for the europeans on the list, there´s a small tour of the Giuseppe Ielasi and Domenico Sciajno duo coming up: december 12th - wednesday @ Genève (CH) december 13th - thursday @ Berne (CH) december 14th - friday @ Darmstadt (D) december 15th - saturday @ Wiesbaden (D) Andreas np: Ornette Coleman - Prime Design/Time Design (Caravan Of Dreams) >From: JonAbbey2@aol.com > >1/14: double CD release party featuring Greg Kelley, Jason Lescalleet, >Giuseppe Ielasi and Domenico Sciajno. three sets, duo, duo, and the world >premiere of the quartet. Tonic, starting at 8 PM, $10. _________________________________________________________________ Downloaden Sie MSN Explorer kostenlos unter http://explorer.msn.de/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Massacre/Mono Date: 04 Dec 2001 17:03:37 +0100 (CET) HI, A couple of days ago someone asked for opinions on Massacre's "Live at Meltdown". I just listened to it and it sounds really good, maybe not as energic as "Funny Valentine" but much better than "Killing Time", IMHO (I never liked that album). There is a freewheeling cover of Charlie Haden's "Song for Che" but nothing that clashes with their own material. The live sound is astounding and the performance doesn't need introduction from me, I guess. I also heard Mono's Tzadik release and, sincerely, I found it nothing special at all. A blend of Sonic Youth's guitar sound and Mogwai's intensity but closer to the latter (and I don't dig them nor their interpretation of "intensity"). Minimalistic isn't necessarily a good adjective in this case. It's hard to imitate SY. That's why they are unique, aren't they? Just a (hasty) opinion. Best, Efrén del Valle _______________________________________________________________ El Nokia 5510, un aspecto extraño, un sonido genial. Visite http://es.promotions.yahoo.com/nokia/ descubra el Nokia 5510 y ¡lléveselo! El concurso acaba el 16 de diciembre de 2001. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lev \"Ljova\" Zhurbin" Subject: Zorn @miller Date: 04 Dec 2001 13:19:19 -0500 >Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 15:15:43 -0500 >From: "Steve Smith" >Subject: RE: Zorn at Miller Theatre > >In actuality, the concert began with the Absolute Ensemble performing Zorn's >'For Your Eyes Only.' Zorn then came out with Masada for a straightforward >20-minute mini-set at the edge of the stage. The strings of the Absolute >Ensemble came back out for 'Kol Nidre,' then the entire ensemble played >'Contes de fee,' Zorn's recent violin concerto. There was no interaction >between Masada and the orchestra, and nothing you could really remotely >relate to Bar Kokhba. > >Steve Smith Yeah. Did anyone mention the huge 1-hour long interview that Zorn did as a pre-concert discussion with George Steel? That was a blast. In the interview, Zorn stressed the importance of writing music in the right musical language for the performer - i.e. everything-written-out for the classical musician, etc.. He also briefly hinted that he doesn't see a way (or doesn't want) to write music which blends classical with jazz with punk, etc. which I guess means that you'll never get to hear a piece scored for Orchestra + Masada, or even a concerto for flute and Ikue Mori... etc. Cheers, Ljova -------- Lev "Ljova" Zhurbin http://Ljova.com/ "Do not fear mistakes - there are none." -Miles Davis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lev \"Ljova\" Zhurbin" Subject: Zorn @miller Date: 04 Dec 2001 13:19:26 -0500 >Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 15:15:43 -0500 >From: "Steve Smith" >Subject: RE: Zorn at Miller Theatre > >In actuality, the concert began with the Absolute Ensemble performing Zorn's >'For Your Eyes Only.' Zorn then came out with Masada for a straightforward >20-minute mini-set at the edge of the stage. The strings of the Absolute >Ensemble came back out for 'Kol Nidre,' then the entire ensemble played >'Contes de fee,' Zorn's recent violin concerto. There was no interaction >between Masada and the orchestra, and nothing you could really remotely >relate to Bar Kokhba. > >Steve Smith Yeah. Did anyone mention the huge 1-hour long interview that Zorn did as a pre-concert discussion with George Steel? That was a blast. In the interview, Zorn stressed the importance of writing music in the right musical language for the performer - i.e. everything-written-out for the classical musician, etc.. He also briefly hinted that he doesn't see a way (or doesn't want) to write music which blends classical with jazz with punk, etc. which I guess means that you'll never get to hear a piece scored for Orchestra + Masada, or even a concerto for flute and Ikue Mori... etc. Cheers, Ljova -------- Lev "Ljova" Zhurbin http://Ljova.com/ "Do not fear mistakes - there are none." -Miles Davis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grey ElkGel Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #630/lescalleet Date: 04 Dec 2001 10:53:22 -0800 (PST) --- "Caleb T. Deupree" wrote: > I've been enjoying Jon's release of Greg Kelley and > Jason Lescalleet a lot lately, and it makes me > wonder about some of these individual's other > releases. I've got one of the nmperign records, > which I remember not being too excited about, but > I'd like to hear more about their other projects, > especially Lescalleet. glad you like the CD - thanks! hasn't been much in response about lescalleet's other recordings, so i thought i'd chip in - i'm pretty sure this is just about everything jason's released. (i'm still awaiting the day he releases a full length solo recording!) * john hudak/jason lescalleet: figure 2 CD [intransitive] live duo performance w/ hudak on laptop and lescalleet on tape loops. * due process: fin de la voix CD [rrrecords] due process is ron lessard's longstanding noise project. on this CD due process is ron and jason, plus a different trio collaborator on 4 of the tracks and 1 duo track. * nmperign/jason lescalleet: in which the silent partner-director is no longer able to make his point to the industrial dreamer CD [intransitive] one extended trio track, a series of nmperign duos, one extended lescalleet track using sound materials from nmperign. * jason lescalleet: another example of parkinson's law 7" [freedom from] lescalleet's only completely solo release. * john hudak/jason lescalleet: split 7" one side by each using a blank lock groove as sound material. this was a limited edition lathe cut release, so it's probably unavailable at this point. * v/a: variious 2CD [intransitive] lescalleet has a track on this compilation which also includes voice crack, kevin drumm, taylor deupree, toshiya tsunoda, etc. * v/a: saturday afternoon matinee [rrrecords] an earlier piece by lescalleet on this comp which also includes angst hase pfeffer nase, idea fire co. etc. i may have gotten the name of the CD wrong - i'm close if not %100 right. * bane: it all comes down to this CD [equal vision] bane is a massachusetts hardcore band. lescalleet adds some noise which eventually overtakes the last track (it was unfortunately truncated by the record label to about 1/2 the original length because they thought it was too "extreme"). __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grey ElkGel Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #630 Date: 04 Dec 2001 10:53:17 -0800 (PST) --- "Caleb T. Deupree" wrote: > I've been enjoying Jon's release of Greg Kelley and > Jason Lescalleet a lot lately, and it makes me > wonder about some of these individual's other > releases. I've got one of the nmperign records, > which I remember not being too excited about, but > I'd like to hear more about their other projects, > especially Lescalleet. glad you like the CD - thanks! hasn't been much in response about lescalleet's other recordings, so i thought i'd chip in - i'm pretty sure this is just about everything jason's released. (i'm still awaiting the day he releases a full length solo recording!) * john hudak/jason lescalleet: figure 2 CD [intransitive] live duo performance w/ hudak on laptop and lescalleet on tape loops. * due process: fin de la voix CD [rrrecords] due process is ron lessard's longstanding noise project. on this CD due process is ron and jason, plus a different trio collaborator on 4 of the tracks and 1 duo track. * nmperign/jason lescalleet: in which the silent partner-director is no longer able to make his point to the industrial dreamer CD [intransitive] one extended trio track, a series of nmperign duos, one extended lescalleet track using sound materials from nmperign. * jason lescalleet: another example of parkinson's law 7" [freedom from] lescalleet's only completely solo release. * john hudak/jason lescalleet: split 7" one side by each using a blank lock groove as sound material. this was a limited edition lathe cut release, so it's probably unavailable at this point. * v/a: variious 2CD [intransitive] lescalleet has a track on this compilation which also includes voice crack, kevin drumm, taylor deupree, toshiya tsunoda, etc. * v/a: saturday afternoon matinee [rrrecords] an earlier piece by lescalleet on this comp which also includes angst hase pfeffer nase, idea fire co. etc. i may have gotten the name of the CD wrong - i'm close if not %100 right. * bane: it all comes down to this CD [equal vision] bane is a massachusetts hardcore band. lescalleet adds some noise which eventually overtakes the last track (it was unfortunately truncated by the record label to about 1/2 the original length because they thought it was too "extreme"). __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Revue des Fossiles" Subject: Re: Anode - Jojo's Requiem for Losers. Date: 04 Dec 2001 11:57:18 -0800 ja - jojo's harsh but very well thought out and exquisitely written criticism regarding jazz lead him to the singular conclusion that if this form of music were taken to its logical extreme the end result would be noise; or more properly the pure exploration of sound(s). the guitar work of kazuo imai is an excellent refinement and application of jojo's principles as filtered through the unique perspective and influence of takehisa kosugi. anode presents four exercises in the context of group improvisation for exploring the "power" and "intensities" of "masses of sound" through otomo's brilliant scores for these pieces which emphasize the importance of "duration" and "volume" over "communication" in improvisational playing. all of these concepts, especially those in quotes, were very important to takayanagi. indeed, other than the final recordings of ground zero, one would be hard pressed to find a better tribute to both the spiritual and intellectual legacy of "mr. tm." sorry about the earlier typo - the proper name should read as follows. masayuki "jojo" takayanagi. website at the following url: http://www.wild.gr.jp/~jinya/index.html - rdf. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: was squarepusher Date: 04 Dec 2001 20:12:54 +0000 >From: Dave Trenkel These were >lauded as his "jazz phase" when they came out, and garnered a lot of >comparisons to electric-period Miles Davis, I hear them as being >closer to Brand X or early Soft Machine, which is not meant as a dis, >I like both of those bands. Fairly melodic, leaning towards fusion >but not particularly wanky, lots of electric piano, and Jenkinson's >hyperactive electric bass chops are wisely restrained. There's a new CD out by Ian O'Brien called 'History Of Things To Come' that's being similiarly described, as an electronica Mwandishi (Herbie Hancock) jazz flavoured workout, drum machines with lots of e-piano; anyone heard this yet? np: Velvet Underground Bootleg Series V.1 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: the muff Subject: Re: Squarepusher Date: 04 Dec 2001 16:17:57 -0500 Just wondering, does anyone here have Hrvatski's Oiseaux album? the muff - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: [fred] Frith & Zorn Date: 05 Dec 2001 00:08:12 +0100 Is there anyone who can shed a light on the recorded output of Frith and Zorn playing together? Is there some kind of development to be seen, which can lead to Frith playing bass in Naked City for instance? I recently bought Zorn's Parachute Box, and was kind of surprised that Frith wasn't on there. It would have fit, with Chadbourne and Kaiser. Perhaps Frith and Zorn only first met in 1981 (Parachute box is 1977-80). Also, I have no idea when 'Art of Memory' was recorded. Thanks, Remco Takken - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: [fred] Frith & Zorn Date: 04 Dec 2001 21:27:34 -0500 The Frith and Zorn discographies should provide answers to your questions. The earliest mention of the two of the together is in a 1979 Chadbourne recording, 2000 Statues and the English Channel. Art of Memory was recorded in 1995. The Zorn discography is at http://www.wnur.org/jazz/artists/zorn.john/discog.html, and the Frith one is at http://www.wnur.org/jazz/artists/frith.fred/discog.html. At 12:08 AM 12/5/01 +0100, Remco Takken wrote: >Is there anyone who can shed a light on the recorded output of Frith and >Zorn playing together? Is there some kind of development to be seen, which >can lead to Frith playing bass in Naked City for instance? > >I recently bought Zorn's Parachute Box, and was kind of surprised that Frith >wasn't on there. It would have fit, with Chadbourne and Kaiser. Perhaps >Frith and Zorn only first met in 1981 (Parachute box is 1977-80). > >Also, I have no idea when 'Art of Memory' was recorded. > >Thanks, Remco Takken > > >- > > > -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeni Dahmus Subject: Re: Zorn at Miller Theatre Date: 04 Dec 2001 23:56:51 -0500 Zorn's pre-concert talk with George Steel dealt with background information= =20 about the program and covered some issues brought up in previous forums at= =20 the Miller Theatre. As Ljova stated (hi Ljova!), Zorn emphasized that he=20 likes to compose for specific musicians and harness their particular=20 talents as appropriate, such as notated scores for classical players and=20 jazz charts for improvisers. Zorn said the key to all of his work is=20 INTERACTION: communication between composers and musicians, while striving= =20 to challenge and push the envelope. There was an interesting discussion=20 about interaction vs. collaboration. Zorn said he does not collaborate; he= =20 prefers to have complete control over projects. He even called himself a=20 control freak. An audience member asked Zorn if he considered Praxis a=20 collaboration with Laswell. Zorn responded that he was just asked to play=20 and that is exactly what he did--go in, play, and leave. He also mentioned= =20 an abandoned commission for the Lab=E8que sisters, duo pianists. After the= =20 sisters made too many suggestions/stipulations, Zorn was struck with=20 writer=92s block for the first time. He called Lukas Foss for advice on what= =20 to do when artists attempt to control composition excessively. Foss said,=20 "I write a bad piece." This was hilarious--perhaps you had to be there. Regarding his current method of composition, Zorn reiterated that he works= =20 on pieces little by little, solving problems along the way. Though he may= =20 have a framework, he keeps the process intuitive. He stressed that=20 attention to *detail* is critical for composers and described his work as=20 quite detail-oriented. He also cited the use of percussion as extremely=20 important in modern music. The violin concerto Contes de F=E9es (1999) utilizes pitch sets. Zorn said= he=20 wrote the violin solo straight through, then broke down the solo into a=20 matrix of pitches on which to base the concerto's background. He went=20 through the matrix twice for the background, following the solo's pitch=20 order exactly without repeats until the conclusion of the set. (Zorn=92s use= =20 of serial techniques was not strict, however. He joked that serialism is=20 for geeks to study and jerk off to=85) Two sections vary from the structure:= =20 the coda, which was written first (it was =93too pretty=94 for the= introduction=20 so he opted to use it last) and an interlude. I thought the concerto was=20 stunning, with a brilliant performance by prodigy Jennifer Koh and the=20 Absolute Ensemble. The music could be described as aggressive, dissonant,=20 percussive, driving; the solo felt like it was constantly pushing forward. In contrast, For Your Eyes Only (1988) is one of several file card pieces=20 by Zorn. He jotted down blocks of ideas on approximately 60 file cards,=20 shuffled them, and followed the cards to compose the full orchestral piece= =20 cartoon-style. Zorn said the process was painstakingly slow and that he is= =20 "too old for that now." Kol Nidre (1996) was gorgeous arranged for a full string ensemble, instead= =20 of a quartet. It actually gave me chills. With Masada on the program as=20 well, Zorn's gift for composing in varied styles was showcased: the file=20 card/cartoon method of For Your Eyes Only, Masada's head-solo-head improv,= =20 Kol Nidre's lush melody, and the serial techniques of Contes de F=E9es. Zorn and Steel discussed more in the pre-concert forum, too much to=20 describe here. He was really "on" that night and in a good mood. Regarding= =20 new works, he said he finished a bass clarinet duo the day before the=20 concert. The piece was written for Michael Lowenstern (bass clarinetist=20 with the New Jersey Symphony, Juilliard faculty member, and member of the=20 Klezmatics, among other projects), who premiered Chimeras at Bargemusic in= =20 October. Jeni - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Doug Tapia" Subject: Re: squarepusher's Go Plastic! Date: 04 Dec 2001 10:35:36 -0800 > Just a personal note...with the exception of "my red hot car" and the last > track, I thought "go plastic" was pretty crappy... > > andrew > i find that very interesting. i think _go plastic_ is one big statement of genius. really. very spastic on the surface, but really logical, in a curiously zorny or zappa-ish way. squarepusher is one of the few composers i know who can jump into 20 completly different musical ideas in under a minute, and still make them sound completly conected, as if everything that unfolds is related to what came immediatly before it and was the only thing that could logically come next. ya know? this is one album that absolutly requires repeated, attentive listening, as well as a healthy obsession with the breaks, i think. for me, i think _go plastic_ might be his most important work since _Big Loada_, and sucessfully fuses that album's agressive, breakthrough programing with the late-60's-miles-like jazzyness of _Music is a rotted one note_. for those of us waiting for Squarepusher to make another album as mind blowing as _Big Loada_, i think this is it. but then, that's just my opinion. Doug Tapia roger. Breakbeat Architects roger World Headquarters: www.roger-hq.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Anode - Jojo's Requiem for Losers. Date: 05 Dec 2001 01:09:13 EST thanks for the fleshing out of the jojo/otomo comments. one question: << jojo's harsh but very well thought out and exquisitely written criticism regarding jazz >> have any of his critical writings been translated into English? are they available anywhere? I know that Otomo has also done some critical writing, which I'd love to read English translations of. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Matsumoto Subject: Boulez the terrorist Date: 04 Dec 2001 22:23:47 -0800 (PST) I've found most of the overzealous "anti-terrorist" actions to be a bit scary, but I have to admit this is more funny than worrisome: Swiss police detained Pierre Boulez due to his past "terrorist" connections. Busted him in his hotel room, even. http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4313619,00.html I guess the moral is: Never piss off a critic ... -- Craig Matsumoto Jazz Director, KZSU-FM (Stanford University) jazz@kzsu.stanford.edu KZSU - 90.1 FM P.O. Box 20510 Stanford, Calif. 94309 +1-650-623-4839 http://kzsu.org - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Squarepusher Date: 05 Dec 2001 03:53:48 EST In a message dated 12/4/01 4:20:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, andreit@geocities.com writes: << Just wondering, does anyone here have Hrvatski's Oiseaux album? >> This person has. D'n'B for crackheads on acid. Insane stuff. -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: Re: Boulez the terrorist Date: 05 Dec 2001 10:07:55 +0100 > I've found most of the overzealous "anti-terrorist" actions to be a bit > scary, but I have to admit this is more funny than worrisome: > Swiss police detained Pierre Boulez due to his past "terrorist" > connections. Busted him in his hotel room, even. > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4313619,00.html > > I guess the moral is: Never piss off a critic ... > Boulez the terrorist reportedly said in the sixties that 'opera houses should be blown up'. I heard this statement before, but I don't know where to find the exact printed quote and the exact context of his quote. Closest I can find, is 'I once said that the most elegant solution of the problem of the opera was to blow up the opera houses, and I still think this is true. Opera is the area before all others in which things have stood still.' (Pierre Boulez, Orientations, p. 485) In the sixties Boulez did make different interesting statements about classical opera, notably in WHERE ARE WE NOW, (Orientations, p. 445). This May 1968 lecture indirectly led to the beginning of IRCAM, Boulez' own experimental music space. Boulez criticises the conservative attitude towards newly built concert halls. Those copies of 19th century architecture were not fitting for new music like elektro-acoustic etc. Regards, Remco Takken - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: Re: Zorn at Miller Theatre Date: 05 Dec 2001 06:22:12 -0500 Apparently an article appeared in the nytimes this morning. Jeni's review was better, and less the Starbucks ads. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/05/arts/music/05ZORN.html?pagewanted=print PS: the article starts by stating that zorn was long-haired in the 70's? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #634 Date: 05 Dec 2001 11:29:05 +0000 >From: JonAbbey2@aol.com >Subject: Re: Weather Sky/Erstwhile >it's actually all set already. it'll be at Star Pine's Cafe in Tokyo from >th= >e=20 >18th-20th, with the following lineup: > >10/18 > >Sugimoto Guitar Quartet-Otomo, Nakamura, Sugimoto, Akiyama >Cosmos-Sachiko/Yoshida >Rowe/Lehn/Schmickler >Stangl/Kurzmann > >10/19 > >Otomo/M=FCller >Lehn/Schmickler >Stangl/Kurzmann/Sugimoto >Rowe/Nakamura > >10/20 > >Astro Twin-Kawasaki/Yoshida >Stangl/M=FCller >Nakamura/Sachiko >Rowe/M=FCller/Sugimoto Great! I'll consider myself there already. I look forward to meeting you Jon, and I hope to see other denizens from here as well. It should be a dynamite festival. Be sure to bring some more CDs to sell; I'm a little behind on my Erstwhile collection. :-) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Revue des Fossiles" Subject: Re: Jojo - Brief Question Long Answers. Date: 05 Dec 2001 11:44:33 -0800 Jon - To the best of my knowledge the writings of Takayanagi, which appeared for the most part in Japanese magazines devoted to Jazz (Swing Journal, etc.); have not been translated into any other language. Hideo Ikeezumi did reprint some very crucial material along with new unpublished writings from Jojo during the 1990s within the context of retrospectives on Takayanagi in the pages of G-Modern. The paucity of both Jojo's available recordings and translations of his writings is an extremely unfortunate situation that is most probably due to Jojo's still rather unfavorable reputation in Japan. Henry Kaiser is fond of recounting a tale where once interviewed by the Japanese press he was asked to name his greatest musical influences. When Henry started the list with the name Masayuki Takayanagi, the person conducting the interview noticeably blushed and quickly changed the subject. Evidently the recordings and transcripts of the interview were later censored to remove any mention of Jojo. Hopefully the major label interest that sparked reissues as well as new releases of archival duets with Kaoru Abe will help spark enough curiosity so that a proper study of Takayanagi is one day published. I fear that until such a work is published, any greater understanding of Takayanagi beyond his rather dubious dual reputation as either a cult "Noise Guitar Hero" or cult "Cool Jazz Guitar Hero" will never occur. A translation of anything written by Otomo Yoshihide would also be very welcome event. Otomo's retrospective on the Japanese Free Jazz scene written for Resonance/LMC continues to be one of the most often cited sources of information in the English language for this remarkable period of creative activity. Indeed, given Otomo's unique background coupled with his own tremendous artistic achievements it may very well behoove him to author a historical text on the roots and radicals of Japanese Free Jazz. There is a sense of critical logic, confidence and an air of candor in what I have read from Otomo that leads me to believe that he could certainly shed light on the problematic issue of improvisation originally being perceived as a force of nihilism (Takayanagi amazingly paraphrases Heidegger during a Coltrane review! Also, cf. interviews with Nariata, Haino, and Tori Kudo on this subject) inside the field of creative arts in Japan. Otomo could also better emphasize and contextualize the "Onkyo" aesthetic by taking a close examination of previous pioneers in this area including Masahiko Togashi, Takehisa Kosugi, Hirosi Siotani, Masami Tada, and Masayuki Takayanagi. In closing, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention improviser and writer Yoshiaki "Onnyk" Kinno whose penetrating critical writings never cease to offer anything less than amazingly original perspectives regarding improvisation. Onnyk's article on Anthony Braxton a few years back in G-Modern lead me to a total reevaluation of and much greater appreciation of Braxton's enormous body of work. - RdF. np. helgoland band 99/univers zero 1313 >have any of his critical writings been translated into English? are they >available anywhere? I know that Otomo has also done some critical writing, >which I'd love to read English translations of. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "George Scala" Subject: Re: Jojo - Brief Question Long Answers. Date: 05 Dec 2001 14:51:25 -0500 > Otomo's retrospective on the Japanese Free Jazz scene > written for Resonance/LMC continues to be one of the most often cited > sources of information in the English language for this remarkable period of > creative activity. Is this a book or magazine? Is it available anywhere? Thanks. George Scala - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Jojo - Brief Question Long Answers. Date: 05 Dec 2001 15:08:02 EST In a message dated 12/5/01 2:53:45 PM, gscala@carolina.rr.com writes: << Is this a book or magazine? Is it available anywhere? >> Resonance is a magazine, put out once or twice a year, by the London Musician's Collective (www.l-m-c.org.uk). the issue referred to is Volume 4, Number 2 and may be available in the US through Anomalous or Forced Exposure. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Revue des Fossiles" Subject: Re: Jojo - Brief Question Long Answers. Date: 05 Dec 2001 12:21:02 -0800 >Is this a book or magazine? Is it available anywhere? Thanks. Otomo Yoshihide's piece on Japanese Free Jazz, part of a greater overview of Japanese music as published in Resonance Magazine is available online at the following URL - http://www.l-m-c.org.uk/texts/otomo.html - RdF. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: New music in RealAudio on Mappings, week beginning November 27, Date: 05 Dec 2001 18:23:56 -0600 Hi y'all, Due to problems with Antenna radio's FTP site, this week's program has just changed, a day and a half late. Sorry for any inconvenience; I hope you enjoy the new show. Barring unforeseen problems, next week's program should change Monday night as usual. This week on Mappings , you'll hear music by electro-acoustic composer Maggi Payne. The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0600 GMT) and will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program (featuring music by Samm Bennett, John Butcher, James Coleman, Rick Cox, Michael Jon Fink, Gianni Gebbia, Charlotte Hug, Brett Larner, Eric Lyon, Paul Herman Reller, Ian Smith, and Wadada Leo Smith) is still available in the Mappings archive , where you can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998. Hope you tune in to the program. Bests, Herb - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Pierre Boulez- terrorist? Date: 05 Dec 2001 20:43:04 -0500 Has anyone heard about this? Amazing... http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_1692000/1692628.stm Best, Jason Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeroen de Boer Subject: taken from Billboard Date: 06 Dec 2001 08:54:00 +0100 Artists To Support Artists Through NYC Benefit [photo] Musicians Suzanne Vega, the X-ecutioners, John Zorn, and Joe Jackson are among those who will take part in a Jan. 11 benefit performance, dubbed Arts on a High Wire, at New York's Hammerstein Ballroom. Proceeds from the event will benefit the New York Arts Recovery Fund, created by the New York Foundation for the Arts (NYFA) in conjunction with several other arts organizations following the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on the city. "The New York Arts Recovery Fund will help restore the vitality of artists and groups who suffered losses due to the tragedy of Sept. 11, by creating a way for the public to channel support to this artistic community." NYFA executive director Theodore Berger said in a statement. The fund's primary focus is to help the 200 arts organizations and several thousand artists located below New York's Canal Street, the area surrounding the former site of the World Trade Center. Others committed to appear at the Arts on the High Wire are performance artist Laurie Anderson, choreographer Elizabeth Streb, author Paul Auster, humorist Roy Blount Jr., jazz clarinetist Don Byron, poet/musician Jim Carroll, contemporary visual artist Chuck Close, photographer/filmmaker Bruce Davidson, and comic artists Ben Katcher and Art Spiegelman. In addition, Philippe Petit, who in 1974 walked a high wire between the twin towers of the World Trade Center, will walk a wire in tribute to that event. Tickets to the event -- priced at $15 for balcony seats and $25 floor tickets -- are available from the NYFA (212-366-6900 x278 or NYFA.org and the venue's box office. Jeroen de Boer content director Cyberslag Content Providing Damsterdiep 15 9711SG Groningen The Netherlands t +31(0)503115496 m +31 (0)624814506 f +31(0)503119447 jeroen@cyberslag.nl www.cyberslag.nl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: [CT promo spam] nmperign, Talbot/Stelzer, self-satisfied college brats; this Friday. Date: 06 Dec 2001 07:02:15 -0500 Hello party people. Apologies for the intrusion. And the cross-posting. The administration at school here doesn't like us to promote events off-campus, so I can't go the usual routes. Anyway. This Friday, Dec. 7. 7:30 p.m. nmperign. Greg Kelley and Bhob Rainey. Trumpet and soprano sax. A couple of Boston's favorite improvisers, I hope you know them. If not, sounds are here: http://homepage.mac.com/bhobr/skip.html Critically lauded for a reason, people! Jason Talbot/Howard Stelzer. Turntable and tapes. A slightly newer duo to the Boston scene, these guys are all about rough and tumble electronic jibba-jabba where nmperign focus on small acoustic gestures. Equally compelling, though. If you don't believe me, check www.bostonnoise.org , go to "music" and then to "mp3's". Dude, I told you. Howie runs the fine Intransitive Records. Opening up will be myself and Jonathan Zorn (No, not that one. Just born with the same name, I swear) on guitar+electronics and electronics+sundries respectively. Please note: This will be our first show to feature my nascent (read: patchy and ugly) beard! That's right, it's FREE. At the No-CAT, which is in the basement of Eclectic House, 200 High St., Middletown, Conn. Enter in back of the house on the ground floor. Directions here: http://www.admiss.wesleyan.edu/traveltowes.html . High St. is one of the main campus streets. Ask any of the slacker gadabouts where Eclectic House is. Park wherever; you won't have to pay the silly University tickets, I promise. E-mail me at jkudler@wesleyan.edu for more info. And come say hello if you do make it by. Thanks for indulging me, Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Andy Diaz Subject: FREE FREEJAZZ SHOW Date: 06 Dec 2001 07:21:06 -0800 (PST) Hello list people, I am pleased to announce a free performance of VALVEJOB: DANIEL CARTER-alto & tenor, clarinet, trumpet STEPHEN GAUCCI-tenor saxophone DAVE REBOI-bass ANDREW GREENWALD-drums ANDYDIAZ-trumpet Join VALVEJOB at: SIBERIA IN EXILE 356 W. 40th St, just east of 9th Ave FRIDAY DECEMBER 7th 9:30 PM Thank you, Andy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben Axelrad" Subject: Re: Pierre Boulez- terrorist? Date: 06 Dec 2001 09:43:33 -0600 There is a more pointed account of this with more background info on Boulez here: http://wsws.org/articles/2001/dec2001/boul-d06.shtml Ben >From: Perfect Sound Forever >To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Pierre Boulez- terrorist? >Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 20:43:04 -0500 > >Has anyone heard about this? Amazing... > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_1692000/1692628.stm > >Best, >Jason > >Perfect Sound Forever >online music magazine >perfect-sound@furious.com >http://www.furious.com/perfect > > >- > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: FREE FREEJAZZ SHOW Date: 06 Dec 2001 11:53:01 -0600 Remember that in posts that go to international lists, at least, it helps to mention in which city/province/country/continent a show will happen. On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 07:21:06AM -0800, Andy Diaz wrote: > Join VALVEJOB at: > SIBERIA IN EXILE > 356 W. 40th St, just east of 9th Ave > FRIDAY DECEMBER 7th 9:30 PM -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Philip Clarkson Subject: Ian O'Brien Date: 06 Dec 2001 18:50:03 +0000 > Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 20:12:54 +0000 > From: "thomas chatterton" > There's a new CD out by Ian O'Brien called 'History Of Things To Come' > that's being similiarly described, as an electronica Mwandishi (Herbie > Hancock) jazz flavoured workout, drum machines with lots of e-piano; anyone > heard this yet? Yes - I've got it. Certainly Herbie's Mwandishi period is a huge influence on it, and when I tell you there are rather wonderful covers of Pat Metheny's "A Midwestern Night's Dream" & Weather Report's "Teen Town" you should get an idea of some of the other influences. I was surprised by how gentle & pastoral the album is - his earlier releases, "Desert Scores" (Ferox) & "Gigantic Days" (Peacefrog) are a lot more techno / dance-influenced, but with the emphasis on interlocking morphing time signatures. I think he's a really interesting artist - he's been working recently with a few of the UK / European "broken beat" scene artists, who you may also like, if you like this sound. In particular, there have been strong releases by Domu ("Up & Down" on Archive, Kirk Degiorgio's As One ("21st Century Soul" on Ubiquity) & Afronuaght ("Shaping Fluid" on R&S) - you can't go wrong with any of these, and much as I love Herbie's "Future2Future", these releases are probably a bit more cutting-edge. Phil Clarkson - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Boulez the terrorist Date: 06 Dec 2001 21:11:05 +0000 >From: "Remco Takken" >Subject: Re: Boulez the terrorist >Closest I can find, is >'I once said that the most elegant solution of the problem of the opera was >to blow up the opera houses, and I still think this is true. Opera is the >area before all others in which things have stood still.' (Pierre Boulez, >Orientations, p. 485) This is a very smart statement by Boulez, but I suspect that few are capable of "hearing" what he is saying, in the same way that people couldn't "hear" what Stockhausen was saying when he made his comment, albeit in the context of loving the concept of art, about the World Trade Center attack and collapse. The point, in the former case, is about a stultifying enactment of the performative. And in the latter case, it's about the performative in its most virulent concrete affect. And all the people could "hear" was the destruction of an opera house and someone loving the attack on the WTC. It's a reduction of metaphor to a banal statement, and this is what some consider to be thinking. The triumph of Bushism spreads to Europe. If only McCarthy could have had it so good. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Lankin Subject: Zorn with WDR orchestra - Dec 14-15 Date: 06 Dec 2001 14:06:53 -0500 14.+15.12.2001 WDR Symphonie Orcheste, Köln, Philharmonie John Zorn: Konzert (2001) für zwei Klaviere und Orchester (UA) Kompositionsauftrag des WDR Alan Lankin lankina@att.net http://jazzmatazz.home.att.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@browbeat.com (m. rizzi) Subject: Re: Zorn with WDR orchestra - Dec 14-15 Date: 06 Dec 2001 16:04:20 -0800 (PST) Weird, Zorn appears to be scheduled to play at Tonic in NYC on Dec. 15th according to their website tonic107.com >14.+15.12.2001 WDR Symphonie Orcheste, K=F6ln, Philharmonie > John Zorn: Konzert (2001) f=FCr zwei Klaviere und >Orchester (UA) Kompositionsauftrag des WDR - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Boulez the terrorist Date: 06 Dec 2001 18:30:45 -0600 On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 09:11:05PM +0000, Bill Ashline wrote: > collapse. The point, in the former case, is about a stultifying enactment > of the performative. And in the latter case, it's about the performative in > its most virulent concrete affect. And all the people could "hear" was the > destruction of an opera house and someone loving the attack on the WTC. I suspect that for people to "hear" it, they might first have to know what "performative" means and what "affect" means when used properly as a noun :-) -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: Re: Zorn with WDR orchestra - Dec 14-15 Date: 06 Dec 2001 19:27:25 -0500 We are not at the end of our surprises! The man can play and have one of his pieces performed at the same time! Otherwise indeed he'd have to be flying a superjet. At 16:04 6/12/01 -0800, m. rizzi wrote: > Weird, Zorn appears to be scheduled to play > at Tonic in NYC on Dec. 15th according to > their website tonic107.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Revue des Fossiles" Subject: Re: Boulez the terrorist Date: 06 Dec 2001 16:50:02 -0800 Trying to find some more information regarding this incident I entered "Boulez+Terrorist" into a Google search engine and this popped up at the following URL - http://www.classicalstuff.com/headlines.html "Boulez Student Cleared of Responsibility in Cult Deaths A French court has cleared Franco-Swiss conductor Michel Tabachnik of responsibility for the deaths of 74 members of the Solar Temple doomsday cult. The 58-year-old Tabachnik, a former student of Pierre Boulez, had been charged with "membership in a criminal group," and prosecutors said he had been a leading member of the cult, encouraging followers to go to their deaths in a series of ritual killings and suicides in France, Canada, and Switzerland between 1994 and 1997." Does anyone know if the above incidents landed Boulez on some kind of "watchdog" list? Any information and clarificaton would be greatly appreciated. Bill Ashline, your commentary re: "Stockhausen, Boulez, and Bushism" was eloquently stated and right on target. - RdF. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Air Date: 07 Dec 2001 11:56:59 +0100 jazzmatazz lists this upcoming release: Air - All Along Air (Knitting Factory) Jan 22 can someone give some insights? is it an old live performance of Threadgill´s trio? Andreas _________________________________________________________________ Downloaden Sie MSN Explorer kostenlos unter http://explorer.msn.de/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Andy Diaz Subject: Re: FREE FREEJAZZ SHOW Date: 07 Dec 2001 07:34:05 -0800 (PST) Dear Zorn Listers and Joseph, My apologies. Join VALVEJOB at: > > SIBERIA IN EXILE > > 356 W. 40th St, just east of 9th Ave > > FRIDAY DECEMBER 7th 9:30 PM That is in New York City. Andy Diaz --- Joseph Zitt wrote: > Remember that in posts that go to international > lists, at least, it > helps to mention in which > city/province/country/continent a show will > happen. > > On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 07:21:06AM -0800, Andy Diaz > wrote: > > > Join VALVEJOB at: > > SIBERIA IN EXILE > > 356 W. 40th St, just east of 9th Ave > > FRIDAY DECEMBER 7th 9:30 PM > > -- > |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ > --- Marcel Duchamp <| > | jzitt@metatronpress.com > http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | > | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls > http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | > | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John > Cage Discussion List | > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Lou Reed's "POEtry" Date: 28 Nov 2001 09:09:44 EST Nice to see that Lou's working with Ornette Coleman... November 25, 2001 Lou Reed, the Tell-Tale Rocker By JON PARELES IN 1845, four years before his death, Edgar Allan Poe first published "The Imp of the Perverse," a short story about a murder. It identified a human compulsion toward transgression and self-destruction. "The assurance of the wrong or error of any action is often the one unconquerable force which impels us, and alone impels us to its prosecution," Poe wrote. "Nor will this overwhelming tendency to do wrong for the wrong's sake, admit of analysis, or resolution into ulterior elements. It is radical, a primitive impulse — elementary." Some 124 years later, Lou Reed offered a more monosyallabic version of the same idea. In the Velvet Underground's "Some Kinda Love," he sang, "Let us do what you fear most/ That from which you recoil/ But which still makes your eyes moist." It was not the first, and hardly the last, song in which Mr. Reed would contemplate, as a matter-of-fact observer or playing a highly volatile character, what goes on in the minds of people committing acts of desperation, mania and depravity. Where Poe delivered his narratives in elaborately sonorous prose, Mr. Reed has used a different vehicle: the rhythm and clangor of rock. Yet perhaps it was destined that as the 20th century ended, Mr. Reed would find himself delving into and overhauling the works of Poe for "POEtry," a music-theater collaboration with the director and designer Robert Wilson that will be at the Brooklyn Academy of Music from Tuesday to Dec. 8. "I just love Poe's language," Mr. Reed, 59, said earlier this month. "To me, it would slip right into my idea of what rock could be: the fun of the rhythm of rock and the sex of rock and the physical push of it, with the real power of the language." From the beginning of his career, Mr. Reed has straddled the intellectual precincts of literature and art and the down-and-dirty intensity of rock 'n' roll. He wasn't trying to legitimize rock or to spoon-feed fancy notions to teenagers. He was simply refusing to separate the things he loved. "I don't see any reason why you can't like rock and be smart," he said. "We can engage our minds within the song. There is a theory that if you engage the mind, the crotch won't have any fun. But that's such a narrow-minded view of our possibilities." Mr. Reed had to invent his own path toward intelligent rock. He studied poetry with Delmore Schwartz at Syracuse University, then became a contract songwriter for Pickwick Records in the early 1960's, where he met other musicians harboring greater ambitions. They coalesced in 1965 as the Velvet Underground, the band that came to define New York rock. In his songs for the Velvets, Mr. Reed defined a new street-level realism in rock, singing about addicts, hustlers, sadomasochists and killers along with troubled lovers. Unlike some of his latter-day admirers, Mr. Reed wasn't trafficking simply in shock value, he insists. "There are great old blues songs that cover so much of it; there are novels that have been covering it forever," he said. "I come with a university background in English, so naturally it's not shocking to me. It was only the format I presented it in. If it was a novel, you wouldn't have spun around twice to think it was shocking. It would be, to any literate person, a non-event. Drugs? Sex? Murder? Hello? Let's go back to Greek tragedy. Or look at the end of `Hamlet.' But this is a very puritan country at war with itself, and that's always been part of the problem." The Velvets also opened up rock's sonic vocabulary to embrace not only folk-rock and blues vamps, but minimalist drones and all-out noise. While they maintained rigorously simple harmonies and rhythms, the Velvets tore apart pre-existing notions of what a rock band should do with time and texture. And while Mr. Reed's unsentimental lyrics have kept the songs from growing dated, the music's combination of simplicity and pandemonium also made the Velvets the ancestors of punk rock and of a school of New York music that extends through Television and Patti Smith to the recent debut album by the Strokes. The Velvets forged their art connection when Andy Warhol became their sponsor, making them the band for his touring Pop Art multimedia happening, the Exploding Plastic Inevitable. Warhol also pushed the Velvets to keep their harshest language and most abrasive sounds. As early as "The Gift," from the Velvets' 1968 album "White Light/White Heat," Mr. Reed combined a macabrely amusing short story with roiling, inexorable music, as he has done again in "POEtry." Music from Mr. Reed's past has just resurfaced in the form of the Velvet Underground's "Bootleg Series Volume 1: The Quine Tapes." Its three CD's were originally recorded on cassettes at 1969 Velvets concerts in San Francisco and St. Louis by Robert Quine, who went on to play lead guitar in Mr. Reed's band from 1981 to 1985. (Mr. Reed, who said he had not spoken with Mr. Quine in 15 years, had forgotten the tapes existed.) The low-fi recordings document the Velvets' excursions from calm to chaos and back, particularly in the three extended versions of "Sister Ray." Since then, Mr. Reed said, his equipment has changed more than his aesthetics. "I don't listen to anything I've ever done," he said. "Why would you? It's unimaginable. I was there, I know what was going on. It's a version of what I'm doing now, and it was there from the get-go, as they say. `The Quine Tapes' have the power of youth and not worrying at that point about your ears being hurt, not knowing enough. But that particular sound, that idea, that approach, runs through everything I do. I've just tried, as I've gotten older, to refine it. "It's a sound I've always loved, from the very first day I was playing through a broken speaker and said, `Oh ho!' All the way up to now, to a Line 6 box sitting on the floor with 100 versions of distortion, and always thinking, `That sounds like a saxophone section,' or `You could do orchestral things with this sound.' It's a basic idea. And if I could refine the harmonics to just the ones I really like, and have the atonal ones when I want them but not when I don't, that would be something. And I've spent the better part of my life, the way a great saxophonist will try to find the perfect reed or a violinist will look for the perfect violin, I've worked on the best tube, the best speaker, the cone, the wood, the string, the pickup, on and on and on." On his solo albums since 1970, Mr. Reed's music has perambulated on a long tether, trying horns or strings or backup singers or jazz soloists, but regularly returning to his fundamental lineup of two guitars, bass and drums. Meanwhile, Mr. Reed has riffled through personas sincere and ironic: a gossip (with lyrics about Warhol's coterie in his biggest hit, "Walk on the Wild Side"), a ranter, an adoring husband, a thoughtful mourner and a gun-toting sociopath. He has gone through crests and troughs, but for every workmanlike song in his repertory there is a gem or two. On his 2000 album "Ecstasy," his character is still struggling with the imp of the perverse, as jealousy and restlessness tear apart the romance he cherishes. His real life is less turbulent: he and another downtown New York icon, Laurie Anderson, are a couple. Asked about her effect on his work, he said, "Everything's better when you're in love." Though Mr. Reed has occasionally played the boorish rocker, he has never disavowed literary intentions. Last year, Hyperion published "Pass Thru Fire: The Collected Lyrics," endorsing Mr. Reed's significance as a poet. By then, Mr. Wilson, who had gotten Mr. Reed to write songs for "Time Rocker" in 1996, had already come up with the idea of a Poe adaptation. "Bob thought this is something that could occur easily, without any weird rubbings going on," Mr. Reed said. "I saw it as a can't-win situation," Mr. Reed added with a smile. "I knew people would say, `How dare he rewrite Poe?' But I thought, here's the opportunity of a lifetime for real fun: to combine the kind of lyricism that he has into a flexible rock format. I really like my version of it. It's accessible, among other things. And I felt I was in league with the master. In that kind of psychology, that interest in the drives and the meaning of obsession and compulsion — in that realm Poe reigns supreme. Particularly now, with the anxiety and everything else that's permeating our lives right now." Mr. Reed has just completed an audio version of "POEtry" to be released next year. He sings most of the songs himself, backed by his own band and guest musicians including Ornette Coleman and the Five Blind Boys of Alabama. The album also features the speaking voices of a cast that includes Elizabeth Ashley, David Bowie, Steve Buscemi, Willem Dafoe, Amanda Plummer and Fisher Stevens. The music in "POEtry" reaches back through Mr. Reed's entire career. With two guitars, as usual, at its core, there's bluesy, broad-shouldered rock, borderline funk and a mock-vaudeville interlude. The chamber- music cello of "Street Hassle" returns; so does the austerity and almost unbearable tension of "Berlin." As actors narrate the stories, Mr. Reed also unveils some purely electronic music, updating both "The Gift" and the enveloping textures of "Metal Machine Music," the feedback-and-overdubs 1975 instrumental album that was rereleased last year and hailed as a precursor of industrial rock and electronica. At the Brooklyn Academy of Music, "POEtry" is to be performed by the Thalia Theater, which also presented "Time Rocker" and Mr. Wilson's collaboration with Tom Waits, "The Black Rider." It is a troupe from Hamburg that speaks mostly in German but sings in English. (The B.A.M. production will have supertitles.) For "POEtry," unlike "Time Rocker," Mr. Reed has written not only songs but dialogue, adapted from or inspired by Poe. "The intention was to free Poe up a bit," Mr. Reed said. "To just loosen it a bit and get it out of the book and take advantage of that amazing language going on, not to mention that imagination. I read some of it with my jaw agape." Mr. Reed identified not only with Poe's gallery of guilt-stricken madmen, but with the sardonic humor and the sense of loss that also permeate Poe's writings. "POEtry" reworks "The Tell-Tale Heart," "The Fall of the House of Usher," "Hop-Frog," "The Cask of Amontillado," "The Pit and the Pendulum" and other Poe stories and poems. "These are the stories of Edgar Allan Poe," one song announces with Reed's own bluntness. "Not exactly the boy next door." It also includes a rewrite of "The Raven," using the original meter, in which the narrator mentions not only his quaint and curious volumes of forgotten lore, but also his cigarettes and Scotch. "Within any given short story, there will be things pulled from other sources," Mr. Reed said. "Poe keeps circling back a lot. The interests in the stories are so much the same, and the female characters, and what happens to them, and what they do to him, over and over and over. "He's so contemporary," Mr. Reed added. "It would sad be if he's consigned to some cartoon level, like the Roger Corman movies. And the language is so beautiful. I spent so many hours with the dictionary, because some of these words were already arcane when he used them. He was a show- off in that way. My God, what a vocabulary. So I spent time finding out what these things meant, and then making it a litte bit, not necessarily contemporary, but what it actually meant. But the word he picked always had a beautiful sound." There is a separation between Poe's grandiloquent diction and Mr. Reed's usual pithiness, a division "POEtry" mines for laughs and epiphanies. But in the end, it's also a collusion between two New Yorkers: two hard-boiled, death-haunted, quietly sardonic writers who won't avert their gaze from the worst they can see or imagine. "Obsession and guilt are reasons people write in the first place," Mr. Reed said. "They are big continents to explore. For Poe, and for me too." ______________________________________________________________________ Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately, and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kurt Gottschalk" Subject: ode to lou, ornette, air, and phil kline Date: 07 Dec 2001 20:46:57 +0000 someone said nice to see ornette and reed are playing together. i couldn't agree less. let me tell you why. it's not the first thing they've done together. ornette brought laurie'n'lou out with prime time when he played lincoln center a few years ago. it rotted. deeply. i don't know what any of their stupid problems are. meanwhile the band called air with a new release on kfworks is neither from chicago nor france, but japan. air #3, then, and that's not counting 'fresh aire' or 'airto sandoval.' (but speaking of the knit a new low there. apparently they no longer have enough equipment to set up all the rooms at once, so 'zu' started some 40 minutes late because they were waiting for tim berne to finish with the bass amp.) and last year, i invited you nyclisters to ring it on in at phil kline's christmas parade (no radical jew, i know, but he calls it christmas). no one came, no grudges bare i. this year's info at http://www.mindspring.com/~boombox/xmas.htm lemme know if you're gonna go. it's pretty cool. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Air Date: 07 Dec 2001 16:00:13 -0500 Nope, this is a 30-year-old Japanese singer-songwriter named Koji Kurumatani, just voice, guitar, bass and drums with a few synth twinkles. Early impression - grungy guitar, speak-sing vocals, hip-hoppish drums. No relation to Threadgill, nor to the French synth-pop duo. Can say as I'm real impressed so far. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Air, "24 Years Old," 'All Along Air' (Knitting Factory) -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Andreas Dietz Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 5:57 AM jazzmatazz lists this upcoming release: Air - All Along Air (Knitting Factory) Jan 22 can someone give some insights? is it an old live performance of Threadgill´s trio? Andreas _________________________________________________________________ Downloaden Sie MSN Explorer kostenlos unter http://explorer.msn.de/intl.asp - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Zorn with WDR orchestra - Dec 14-15 (and more thoughts on Miller) Date: 07 Dec 2001 18:42:32 -0500 Stranger still - I remember reading somewhere... wasn't it here, in fact, in Ljova's or Jeni Dahmus's recap of the Zorn talk at Miller?... that Zorn's Double Piano Concerto had been cancelled outright because Katia and Marielle LaBecque were meddling too much. I know it's no longer on the WDR Orchestra's American tour program... The New York Times pretty much trashed the Miller Concert, but it really only showed how hopelessly out of touch Tony Tomassini is with anything more contemporary than Berg. Yes, 'For Your Eyes Only' sounds a bit naive and antiquated by now - the filecard system is pretty old, by Zorn standards. Yes, 'Kol Nidre' sounded like Ernest Bloch-style schmaltz, though for Tomassini to suggest something close to plagiarism only reveals his ignorance of the original settings for quartet, clarinet and so on. (This new version would have sounded far better played with the full-on plumminess of the Philadelphia Orchestra instead of the well-meaning but fairly anemic pick-up strings of the Absolute Ensemble.) But the Violin Concerto 'Contes de fees' was brilliant and breathtaking. It started with the techniques of Berg, yes, but it told a different story in a different accent and with a different man's experience and interests compelling the narrative. Violinist Jennifer Koh made it look painless and easy. What it revealed, too, is that Zorn is a born orchestrator. There was a moment early on in which the violins were all playing muted harmonics while the percussionists played shimmering, metallic sounds that made me sit forward in amazement. And unlike many other modern composers (Elliott Carter in his wan new cello concerto, for one), Zorn writes idiomatically for percussion - he's as good as Chris Rouse and very nearly as good as the all-time master, Varese, and as a percussionist, I don't say that lightly at all. The piece made me run straight over to Zorn like a geek when it was over, just to tell him that I wanted to hear it again, right away. Tomassini's dismissal was ignorant, glib and unfair. I also thought it was awfully cool that Fred Sherry, one of the Chamber Music at Lincoln Center bigwigs and the man who commissioned 'Chimeras' for Bargemusic some weeks back, showed up at Miller and actually continues to take an active interest in Zorn's music, instead of just boosting his own marquee value by using Zorn's notoriety on a single program. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - King Crimson, "Dangerous Curves," 'Level Five' (DGM) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn Lea Subject: NYTimes article about Boulez' arrest as terrorist suspect Date: 07 Dec 2001 19:34:08 -0500 PARIS, Dec. 6 =8B The avant- garde music of Pierre Boulez has often upset traditionalists. But the French composer and conductor never imagined that he could become a terrorism suspect until the Swiss police entered his room in a five-star hotel in Basel last month and confiscated his passport. True, back in the 1960's, Mr. Boulez once suggested that it would not be a bad thing for contemporary music if all opera houses were blown up. Still, he was not being literal, and that was not what prompted three Swiss policemen to wake him the morning after he conducted at Basel's 2001 Month of European Music. The local police, who routinely check hotel guest lists against their computer files, had found Mr. Boulez's name among those posing a potential threat. In the aftermath of Sept. 11, a predawn raid was called for. The police, who had never heard of the maestro, seized his passport and train ticket and began to investigate. The problem, it seems, stemmed more from musical taste than terrorism. Astride Schirmer, Mr. Boulez's spokeswoman in Paris, said that in 1995, a Swiss music critic who had written a scathing review of a concert by Mr. Boulez received a threatening telephone call that included references to bombs. "The person who called may have said he was Mr. Boulez," Ms. Schirmer said. "It was evidently a joke in extremely bad taste, but the critic reported it to the police, and Mr. Boulez's name was entered into their files." Two hours after the raid in early November, the police returned Mr. Boulez'= s passport amid profuse apologies. A letter from Basel's police chief apologized for "the force's excessively zealous behavior." After the incident became public this week, Mr. Boulez, 75, refused to discuss it further. "I hope it won't stop him coming back here," a Basel police spokesman said. "I understand a lot of Swiss like his music." P - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= Subject: WANTED! THE SAINTS "(I'm) Stranded" LP Date: 08 Dec 2001 18:28:51 +0000 (GMT) WANTED! THE SAINTS "(I'm) Stranded" LP in ex/ex condition. I'd prefer the original Australian pressing (EMI EMC 25708, 1977), but I'd consider any other pressings. ________________________________________________________________ Nokia 5510 looks weird sounds great. Go to http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/nokia/ discover and win it! The competition ends 16 th of December 2001. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: (nz) Konk Pack in Holland Date: 08 Dec 2001 20:45:34 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C18029.48C3F1E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Review in Newspaper De Volkskrant today, sorry for sloppy translations = and unintended weird wordplay: Free Jazz of the uncompromising kind Music: Rumor, december 6th, Lantaren/ Venster, Rotterdam. Tonight = (Saturday) in Theater Kikker and Sjuhuis, Utrecht. Tetzepi from Amsterdam is at length the hippest Dutch big band of the = moment. Their music is ever growing, but maintains the solid = rock-versus-improv sounds from their beginnings. At the Rumor festival, = thursday night in Rotterdam, the group seemed to be a step ahead of all = expectations. No electronics or samples, as on their latest cd SHU = (Trytone/ BVHaast), but indeed a completely revised solistic concept. = Damien Cluzel succesfully derailed his accompanists with spiky guitar = effects, while trompeter Jimmy Sernesky carefully stayed just between = all the right notes. Double bass and piano could hardly keep a grip on = the lot. It made up a nice counterbalance between all those tightly written = passages, held together by their dancing director Wouter Hakhoff. Soon = there's more of this newfound direction in Tetzepi's music. During The = Festival in the Shape of an Egg (on december 19-22) these musicians will = work together with the experimentalists of The Karnatic Lab: young = Amsterdammers who dive into South-Indian classical musics to find the = secrets behind those intrigueing in-between space unused in western = scales.=20 Tetzepi will undoubtedly go back to electronics and distortion in the = near future, during last thursday's Rumor concert electricity was = handled well enough by another group. Konk Pack played free jazz of the = most uncompromising kind: with added amplification. Cologne based = keyboard player Thomas Lehn turned out to be a synthesizer virtuoso, = playing perfectly in balance with the ragged hawaian guitar of Tim = Hodgkinson, and the electronically prepared drum set of Roger Turner.=20 The British drummer looked fearsome, with his bold head, and rattling = bike chains. Luckily he also came up with featherlight bell sounds, = coming out of stainless steel drumsticks. The sound of Hodgkinsons = hawaian guitar deemed unrecognisable throughout. That was mainly due to = his unorthodox playing style: with little sticks, brushes and effect = pedals Hodgkinson scraped all romantic and false sentimentality from the = instrument.=20 Konk Pack did away with instant notes from taperecorders, and = deadserious, but extremely difficult music scores. And with their solid = walls of sound and whisperingly soft interplay, the group also referred = to a breaking point in improvised music, around 1970. The moment that = the political fire of free jazz got loaded with electricity. Back then, = the fire was extinguished by big record companies, advertising = technocratic jazz-rock and slick fusion for a wide audience.=20 It is only now, that young labels like Erstwhile, Grob and Durian dare = to invest in this dangerous music. And if a true revolution is very = likely to be too far-fetched in our days, a cool breeze seems fair = enough. Remco Takken ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C18029.48C3F1E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Review in Newspaper De Volkskrant today, sorry for sloppy = translations and=20 unintended weird wordplay:
 
Free Jazz of the uncompromising=20 kind

Music: Rumor, december 6th, Lantaren/ Venster, Rotterdam. Tonight = (Saturday)=20 in Theater Kikker and Sjuhuis, Utrecht.

Tetzepi from Amsterdam is at length the hippest Dutch big band of the = moment.=20 Their music is ever growing, but maintains the solid rock-versus-improv = sounds=20 from their beginnings. At the Rumor festival, thursday night in = Rotterdam, the=20 group seemed to be a step ahead of all expectations. No electronics or = samples,=20 as on their latest cd SHU (Trytone/ BVHaast), but indeed a completely = revised=20 solistic concept. Damien Cluzel succesfully derailed his accompanists = with spiky=20 guitar effects, while trompeter Jimmy Sernesky carefully stayed just = between all=20 the right notes. Double bass and piano could hardly keep a grip on the = lot.

It made up a nice counterbalance between all those tightly written = passages,=20 held together by their dancing director Wouter Hakhoff. Soon = there’s more of=20 this newfound direction in Tetzepi’s music. During The Festival in = the Shape of=20 an Egg (on december 19-22) these musicians will work together with the=20 experimentalists of The Karnatic Lab: young Amsterdammers who dive into=20 South-Indian classical musics to find the secrets behind those = intrigueing=20 in-between space unused in western scales.

Tetzepi will undoubtedly go back to electronics and distortion in the = near=20 future, during last thursday’s Rumor concert electricity was = handled well enough=20 by another group. Konk Pack played free jazz of the most uncompromising = kind:=20 with added amplification. Cologne based keyboard player Thomas Lehn = turned out=20 to be a synthesizer virtuoso, playing perfectly in balance with the = ragged=20 hawaian guitar of Tim Hodgkinson, and the electronically prepared drum = set of=20 Roger Turner.

The British drummer looked fearsome, with his bold head, and rattling = bike=20 chains. Luckily he also came up with featherlight bell sounds, coming = out of=20 stainless steel drumsticks. The sound of Hodgkinsons hawaian guitar = deemed=20 unrecognisable throughout. That was mainly due to his unorthodox playing = style:=20 with little sticks, brushes and effect pedals Hodgkinson scraped all = romantic=20 and false sentimentality from the instrument.

Konk Pack did away with instant notes from taperecorders, and = deadserious,=20 but extremely difficult music scores. And with their solid walls of = sound and=20 whisperingly soft interplay, the group also referred to a breaking point = in=20 improvised music, around 1970. The moment that the political fire of = free jazz=20 got loaded with electricity. Back then, the fire was extinguished by big = record=20 companies, advertising technocratic jazz-rock and slick fusion for a = wide=20 audience.

It is only now, that young labels like Erstwhile, Grob and Durian = dare to=20 invest in this dangerous music. And if a true revolution is very likely = to be=20 too far-fetched in our days, a cool breeze seems fair enough.

Remco Takken

------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C18029.48C3F1E0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= Subject: Re: WANTED! THE SAINTS "(I'm) Stranded" LP Date: 08 Dec 2001 22:55:55 +0000 (GMT) >You're definitely stranded far from home, looking >for a hard to find punk rock LP on the Zorn list. Not at all, my friend. I find it highly unlikely that every single person on this list just listens to Zorn and related music. If it were the case, then I truely sympathise with you all, and more than than anything, I would be very disappointed. ________________________________________________________________ Nokia 5510 looks weird sounds great. Go to http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/nokia/ discover and win it! The competition ends 16 th of December 2001. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: Re: WANTED! THE SAINTS "(I'm) Stranded" LP Date: 09 Dec 2001 13:29:50 +0100 >You're definitely stranded far from home, looking >for a hard to find punk rock LP on the Zorn list. Not at all, my friend. I find it highly unlikely that every single person on this list just listens to Zorn and related music. If it were the case, then I truely sympathise with you all, and more than than anything, I would be very disappointed. Hey I'm sorry, it was all in good fun. 'Stranded far from home' is a quote from the album you are looking for! So you see, I am not listening only to Zorn and related musics... I don't own a copy of 'Stranded' though. Still friends? Greetings, Remco Takken - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: Jim O'Rourke interview Date: 09 Dec 2001 06:26:29 -0600 Hi gang, I ran across this & thought all y'all might be interested: The overall Web site has lots of old British rock criticism that may or may not be of use. Bests, Herb - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: The Locust Date: 09 Dec 2001 10:27:02 -0400 Hello list, has anyone heard the Hardcore band "The Locust"? Any thoughts on them? Thank you Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. FAITH NO MORE king for, a day fool for a lifetime - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christian Isendahl" Subject: Intro Date: 09 Dec 2001 17:39:49 +0100 Hi all, I=B4m brand new to the list, so I don=B4t know whether this is a high = frequency one or what yet. Anyway, FYI I=B4m Swedish, have been a Zorn = fan for a few years and have a bunch of his records. Got my last couple = of ones last week, The Circle Maker and Cobra, of which I find the = former one particularly interesting. A beautiful record... Don=B4t know = whether this is koscher around here, but I=B4d love to trade for = liveshows. If interested, please send me a note and I=B4ll email you my = list. All the best!/Christian - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?List_Identity_N=B02?= Date: 09 Dec 2001 17:53:00 +0100 Someone wrote: >> You're definitely stranded far from home, looking >> for a hard to find punk rock LP on the Zorn list. Well, it does make you think. I love the idea of having Zorn in the middle of the wide circle of musical tastes, since his own circle is really wide as well. I guess he truly is the 'circle maker'. Anyway. To me there are two main directions happening on the list. Some enjoy to experiment in a jazz, classical & world vein. Others like to experiment with rock. I know there's a lot more in between and beyond. But I suppose there's a group that really wonders why all the mr. bungle and metal talk needs to happen on this list. While others feel akward reading about Ellington and even Masada. I know it's all Zorn's fault because he once created Naked City and opened the door for the rock fans. I for one, wouldn't mind a new list for the metalheads to keep this Zornlist more focused. Ok, flame on !!! ;-) greetings, Rob @ risk np: Mark Dresser - Marinade - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: Is trading kosher, Was: Re: Intro Date: 09 Dec 2001 18:29:45 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C180DF.7A1D7DE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Christian Isendahl wrote: Don=B4t know whether this is koscher around here, but I=B4d love to = trade for liveshows. If interested, please send me a note and I=B4ll = email you my list. Kosher or not, for me there's still enough good quality material around = on cd which I haven't heard. Before running wild after another half = decent sounding concert tape, I would rather go out and try a new name = from the Tzadik catalogue. Last time I did so, I got the absolutely = beautiful LIKE WATER, by Bun-Chin Liam.=20 Interestingly enough, with all the regular output around Zorn (and other = hyperactively recording improvisors, like Bailey, Chadbourne, Vandermark = for instance), you just keep reading about hot tapes that somehow aren't = scheduled for release anywhere. Most of the times, they are radio = broadcasts, ie. performances where good tape sources exist. Let's discuss these gems to death here, it seemed to have worked for = Naked City. I understood there's a live Naked City live project in the = can. Radio shows floated around for years, so now we know what to = expect. Regards, Remco Takken np: John Zorn, Parachute Years (HOCKEY) ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C180DF.7A1D7DE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Christian Isendahl wrote:
Don=B4t=20 know whether this is koscher around here, but I=B4d love to trade for = liveshows.=20 If interested, please send me a note and I=B4ll email you my=20 list.
Kosher or not, for me there's still enough good quality = material=20 around on cd which I haven't heard. Before running wild after = another=20 half decent sounding concert tape, I would rather go out and try a new = name from=20 the Tzadik catalogue. Last time I did so, I got the absolutely beautiful = LIKE=20 WATER, by Bun-Chin Liam.
 
Interestingly enough, with all the regular output around Zorn (and = other=20 hyperactively recording improvisors, like Bailey, Chadbourne, = Vandermark=20 for instance), you just keep reading about hot tapes that somehow aren't = scheduled for release anywhere. Most of the times, they are radio = broadcasts,=20 ie. performances where good tape sources exist.
 
Let's discuss these gems to death here, it seemed to have worked = for Naked=20 City. I understood there's a live Naked City live project in the can. = Radio=20 shows floated around for years, so now we know what to = expect.
Regards, Remco Takken
 np: John Zorn, Parachute Years (HOCKEY)
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C180DF.7A1D7DE0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_List_Identity_N=B02?= Date: 09 Dec 2001 18:15:37 +0100 Hi, Rob wrote: > I know it's all Zorn's fault because he once created Naked City and opened > the door for the rock fans. I for one, wouldn't mind a new list for the > metalheads to keep this Zornlist more focused. Ok, flame on !!! ;-) > More focused? I don't think so. Zorn's tastes are so ecclectic that I feel that anything goes somehow . For me, there's the same distance (or nearness) between Zorn - Ellington and Zorn - Napalm Death. They don't have too much in common but listing them as references makes sense to me. I don't think any further lists are necessary at all. I'm happy to get this massive, varied info daily. I don't even find the time to search for data on everything discussed here. God (or whoever) bless the day I joined the list. And since you mention it, anyone knows when I should expect the new Mr. Bungle album? I heard it'll be released in 2002. Best, Efrén n.p: Ennio Morricone "Mondo Morricone" n.r: Hermann Hesse "Unterm Rad" (Under the wheels?) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_List_Identity_N=B02?= Date: 09 Dec 2001 19:14:16 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C180E5.B1D6E040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rob wrote: > I know it's all Zorn's fault because he once created Naked City and = opened > the door for the rock fans. I for one, wouldn't mind a new list for = the > metalheads to keep this Zornlist more focused. Ok, flame on !!! ;-) > Think, there's a huge rock market for the long awaited live series by = Naked City!!! That means: more obscure Tzadik releases can be = financed!!! Are 'they' (the rock fans) allowed in our little elitist list, to ask = specific jazz questions like: what would be a rocking Ornette Coleman = record to buy first? Of course!! It's good fun!! Seriously: in some circles, John Zorn is becoming the kind of status = symbol that Frank Zappa once was. These kind of followers can be = recognised by the tasteless and stupid records they own outside of the = Zappa (now Zorn) catalogue. Also, they only have opinions about those = records discussed in the rock press. But: These status seekers are very good for the market, so maybe we should = leave them be. Perhaps you'll discover a good metal album or two in the = process. Suggested listening for metaljazzheads:=20 (and now playing): Eugene Chadbourne & Zu: Motorhellington (yes, = you've guessed it: motorhead plus ellington)=20 Regards, Remco Takken, owning more Motorhead records than Ellington = records, but with far more Coltrane cd's on the shelves than Blind Idiot = God discs. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C180E5.B1D6E040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rob wrote:

> I know it's all Zorn's fault because he = once=20 created Naked City and opened
> the door for the rock fans. I = for one,=20 wouldn't mind a new list for the
> metalheads to keep this = Zornlist more=20 focused. Ok, flame on !!! ;-)
>
Think, there's a huge rock = market for=20 the long awaited live series by Naked City!!! That means: more obscure = Tzadik=20 releases can be financed!!!
 
Are 'they' (the rock fans) allowed in our little elitist list, to = ask=20 specific jazz questions like: what would be a rocking Ornette = Coleman=20 record to buy first? Of course!! It's good fun!!
 
Seriously: in some circles, John Zorn is becoming the kind of = status=20 symbol that Frank Zappa once was. These kind of followers can be=20 recognised by the tasteless and stupid records they own outside of the = Zappa=20 (now Zorn) catalogue. Also, they only have opinions about those = records=20 discussed in the rock press. But:
These status seekers are very good for the market, so maybe we = should=20 leave them be. Perhaps you'll discover a good metal album or two in = the=20 process.
 
Suggested listening for metaljazzheads:
(and now playing): Eugene Chadbourne & Zu: Motorhellington = (yes,=20 you've guessed it: motorhead plus ellington)
Regards, Remco Takken, owning more Motorhead records than = Ellington=20 records, but with far more Coltrane cd's on the shelves = than Blind Idiot=20 God discs.
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C180E5.B1D6E040-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stephen Drury Subject: zorn music in russia Date: 09 Dec 2001 13:28:42 -0500 music by Zorn and others in Moscow this week: COLD ALTERNATIVA:=A0 Images of American Music=20 DOM Cultural Centre=20 Bolshoy Ovchinnikovsky lane, 24, building 4=20 tel. 953 7236 / fax 953 7242=20 Thursday, December 13 - Paul Elwood, composer, banjo=20 Saturday, December 15, 2001 - Seattle Chamber Players with Stephen Drury John Zorn - Music for Children=20 Zorn - Carny=20 Zorn - Kol Nidre=20 Paul Elwood - Stanley Kubrick's Mountain Home=20 Zorn - Chimeras=20 Sunday, December 16, 2001 - Stephen Drury Paul Elwood=A0 - Vigils=20 Lee Hyla=A0 - Riff and Transfiguration=20 Charles Ives=A0 - The Celestial Railroad=20 John Cage - One=20 John Zorn=A0 - Carny=20 come and freeze your butts off! =A0=20 --steve http://www.stephendrury.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Intro Date: 09 Dec 2001 14:06:52 EST Welcome aboard, Christian. -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20List=20Identity=20N=B02?= Date: 09 Dec 2001 14:06:52 EST In a message dated 12/9/01 12:03:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, roballaert@mac.com writes: << To me there are two main directions happening on the list. Some enjoy to experiment in a jazz, classical & world vein. Others like to experiment with rock. I know there's a lot more in between and beyond. But I suppose there's a group that really wonders why all the mr. bungle and metal talk needs to happen on this list. While others feel akward reading about Ellington and even Masada. >> That's a direct hit on the nail, there. I might add that some of us swing both ways, to borrow a term from a completely different area...;-) -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew" Subject: Re: The Locust Date: 09 Dec 2001 17:27:37 -0500 > Hello list, > has anyone heard the Hardcore band "The Locust"? Any thoughts on them? > Thank you Well, I wouldn't call the Locust hardcore...they're more of an "animal rock"/ "spazzcore" band. :) I'm personally a big fan of the Locust, and their alter-ego Le Shok (check them out if you haven't already- they're the same band). They remind me alot of the first Naked City record (or at least the spazziest moments of it). Kid 606 recently did a great remix of a Locust song. andrew - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Ricardo=20Campillo?= Subject: videos...again Date: 10 Dec 2001 00:17:33 +0100 (CET) I want to get videos of Zorn. But I don't have any video of him, but I have a lot of videos of films. I want videos of films too, if someone are interested that tell me something. Sorry for my english (the reason because I don't usually write). Ricardo. np: The Cracow Klezmer Band"The Warriors" _______________________________________________________________ El Nokia 5510, un aspecto extraño, un sonido genial. Visite http://es.promotions.yahoo.com/nokia/ descubra el Nokia 5510 y ¡lléveselo! El concurso acaba el 16 de diciembre de 2001. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_List_Identity_N=B02?= Date: 09 Dec 2001 18:14:58 -0500 At 05:53 PM 12/9/01 +0100, Rob Allaert wrote: > >I know it's all Zorn's fault because he once created Naked City and opened >the door for the rock fans. I for one, wouldn't mind a new list for the >metalheads to keep this Zornlist more focused. Ok, flame on !!! ;-) The joy of this list is in the wide range of discussion topics. The threads we've had on Meshuggah and other metal bands have been very enlightening for me, as well as the ones on just about every other genre. Between Zorn's personal output and what he releases on Tzadik and Avant, pretty much everything is up for discussion. Plus, there are fewer flames per capita than any other mailing list I've ever been on. On a zorn-inspired topic, and taking a page from Redbird, my wife and I just spent a wonderful weekend in Chicago, where we picked up the Feldman String Quartet recording on Hat (the Jazz Record Mart is a dangerous place -- I got Flutter *and* Anode in the used bin), and she *offered* to put the quartet on continuous repeat for a whole weekend. Doesn't get much better than this... Looking forward to everyone's best-of-2001 lists. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thomas Choate Subject: Re: List_Identity_N°2 Date: 09 Dec 2001 17:41:55 -0800 (PST) or perhaps this is just the tendencies of two sides of ourselves. cds i have ordered in the last week: Sleepytime Gorilla Grand Opening And Clos Fantomas Fantomas Refused Shape Of Punk To Come Stick Men Insatiable Mr.Bungle Disco Volante Captain Beefheart Trout Mask Replica Painkiller Execution Ground Tortoise & The Ex In The Fishtank DILLINGER ESCAPE P UNDER THE RUNNING B duke ellington and coltrane (from BMG) coltrane's (vanguard) show with dolphy (4 cds) and planning on trading in for Edolphy last date soon. thats all the flaming i have today, :) time for finals' studying.. amor fati, square --- Rob Allaert wrote: > > Someone wrote: > > >> You're definitely stranded far from home, looking > >> for a hard to find punk rock LP on the Zorn list. > > Well, it does make you think. I love the idea of > having Zorn in the middle > of the wide circle of musical tastes, since his own > circle is really wide > as well. I guess he truly is the 'circle maker'. > Anyway. > > To me there are two main directions happening on the > list. Some enjoy to > experiment in a jazz, classical & world vein. Others > like to experiment > with rock. I know there's a lot more in between and > beyond. But I suppose > there's a group that really wonders why all the mr. > bungle and metal talk > needs to happen on this list. While others feel > akward reading about > Ellington and even Masada. > > I know it's all Zorn's fault because he once created > Naked City and opened > the door for the rock fans. I for one, wouldn't mind > a new list for the > metalheads to keep this Zornlist more focused. Ok, > flame on !!! ;-) > > greetings, > Rob @ risk > np: Mark Dresser - Marinade > > > - > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?List=5FIdentity=5FN=B02?= Date: 09 Dec 2001 17:47:38 -0800 "Identity" is *so* late-80s. I am vast, I contain multitudes. -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "For children are innocent and love justice; while most of us are wicked and naturally prefer mercy" -- G.K. Chesterton np: Mahmoud Ahmed, _Soul of Addis_ nr: Charles Brockden Brown, _Wieland, or The Transformation_ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thomas Choate Subject: Re: List_Identity_N°2 Date: 09 Dec 2001 17:59:49 -0800 (PST) no DUDE!! retro... identity came back in when skid row when on tour, (without seb) and my friends' opened up for them: www.eiderdownmusic.com (no pluggin here--) that was a cruel twist of a message there...man, amor fati, square --- Jim Flannery wrote: > "Identity" is *so* late-80s. > > I am vast, I contain multitudes. > > -- > > Jim Flannery > newgrange@sfo.com > > "For children are innocent and love > justice; while most > of us are wicked and naturally prefer > mercy" > > -- G.K. Chesterton > np: Mahmoud Ahmed, _Soul of Addis_ > nr: Charles Brockden Brown, _Wieland, or The > Transformation_ > > - > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= Subject: WANTED! HANATARASHI/HANATARASH Date: 10 Dec 2001 08:03:50 +0000 (GMT) WANTED! HANATARASHI/HANATARASH< 1. "Hanatarashi" LP Alchemy, Japan, ARLP007, 1985< 2. "Worst Selektion" CS (and other early cassettes) PCM/MARS, Japan, #13, 1985 3. "5 : We Are 0.00" CD Shock City, Japan, CN?, 1996 I'd prefer to buy. Reply offlist to blackoperations_uk@hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________ Nokia 5510 looks weird sounds great. Go to http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/nokia/ discover and win it! The competition ends 16 th of December 2001. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: Indeed!!! Re: Black Lions on sale (NZ) Date: 10 Dec 2001 11:26:25 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C1816D.80C50B20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Broinc is cool for updating your modern jazz collection, I just got my = package of discs for 2.99 (Black Lion) and 3.99 (Freedom) each. ellington tribute with Cecil Taylor,=20 Dollar Brand, Anatomy of a south african village Monk solo,=20 Cecil Taylor Trio 'Trance' Paul Bley 'Touching" Mariano/ Hinze Roswell Rudd 'Flexible Flyer' www.broinc.com,=20 Their search machine runs 'Labels', where you can choose a label. Mostly = classical indeed, some trad jazz, and the mentioned Freedom and Black = Lion... Bye Remco np Albert Ayler Going home (yes: the Black Lion $2.99!!!) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jeffcalt@aol.com=20 To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 9:21 PM Subject: Black Lions on sale (NZ) I picked up a number of Black Lion releases (Hemphill, Ayler, Braxton, = Lake,=20 AEC) yesterday for $2.99 a piece(!) at www.broinc.com . I've ordered = from=20 them before, and they are certainly slow, but at these prices you can = be=20 patient. Also got a few albums from Prestige, RTE, and New World. = Bear in=20 mind that most of their catalog is classical, but if you really = search,=20 you'll find some good stuff. jeff caltabiano (who's not affiliated with broinc) - ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C1816D.80C50B20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Broinc is cool for updating your modern jazz collection, I just got = my=20 package of discs for 2.99 (Black Lion) and 3.99 (Freedom) each.
 
ellington tribute with Cecil Taylor,
Dollar Brand, Anatomy of a south african village
Monk solo,
Cecil Taylor Trio 'Trance'
Paul Bley 'Touching"
Mariano/ Hinze
Roswell Rudd 'Flexible Flyer'
 
 
Their search machine runs 'Labels', where you can choose = a label.=20 Mostly classical indeed, some trad jazz, and the mentioned Freedom and = Black=20 Lion...
 
Bye Remco
 
np Albert Ayler Going home (yes: the Black Lion $2.99!!!)
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Jeffcalt@aol.com=20
To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, = 2001 9:21=20 PM
Subject: Black Lions on sale = (NZ)

I picked up a number of Black Lion releases (Hemphill, = Ayler,=20 Braxton, Lake,
AEC) yesterday for $2.99 a piece(!) at www.broinc.com .  I've ordered = from=20
them before, and they are certainly slow, but at these prices you = can be=20
patient.  Also got a few albums from Prestige, RTE, and New=20 World.  Bear in
mind that most of their catalog is classical, = but if=20 you really search,
you'll find some good stuff.

jeff = caltabiano=20 (who's not affiliated with = broinc)

-
------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C1816D.80C50B20-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Gardner Subject: Masada Song Book Date: 10 Dec 2001 12:17:54 +0000 Does anyone know what has happened to the proposed Masada Songbook. I have worked my way through some of my favourites but I would really like to see scores for the whole lot . Richard Gardner - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ryan Novak Subject: Re: Rockers Date: 10 Dec 2001 11:25:11 -0800 (PST) > These status seekers are very good for the market, >so maybe we should = >leave them be. Perhaps you'll discover a good metal >album or two in the = >process. Because only the metalhead rockers are Zorn status-seekers? Give me a break. And the status-seekers just become the identity seekers we have here. :~) ---RN __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: Farmers Date: 10 Dec 2001 11:39:49 -0800 For those of you who are annoyed that every topic discussed on this list is not to your liking, there are some great online study courses designed to help the suggestible lister develop what are known in the trade as "Scan & Delete Skills." Such skills enable the trained lister to quickly separate the wheat from the chaff, as well as the sheep from the goats, while requiring no annoyance of, nor demands on, the ongoing life of the farm. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben Axelrad" Subject: Re: List Identity N°2/jazz record mart Date: 10 Dec 2001 17:13:08 -0600 Their used section is great (if a bit pricey). A few weeks ago I picked up the Braxton Willisau box set, Brotzmann's "Little Birds Have Fast Hearts 1", and the Comforts of Madness disc with F Hautzinger. And they've always got some rare hats and For4Ears discs in there. >From: "Caleb T. Deupree" >On a zorn-inspired topic, and taking a page from Redbird, my wife and I >just spent a wonderful weekend in Chicago, where we picked up the Feldman >String Quartet recording on Hat (the Jazz Record Mart is a dangerous place >-- I got Flutter *and* Anode in the used bin), and she *offered* to put the >quartet on continuous repeat for a whole weekend. Doesn't get much better >than this... > >Looking forward to everyone's best-of-2001 lists. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: Jazzin' Politics Date: 10 Dec 2001 18:55:21 -0600 Unfortunately it's not on the magazine's Web site, but the December 17, 2001 issue of the Nation has a pretty good article by Gene Santoro that touches on the history of politics in improvised music in the US through reviewing the recent Don Byron & Dave Douglas CDs. Subscription copies of the issue are out, & it's on newsstands in Fort Worth right now, so it may be available throughout the US, otherwise many (again, US) libraries carry the magazine. For the many people on the list who aren't in the US, I'm not sure what kind of distribution this magazine (which is primarily a left-ish political magazine, with intermittently interesting and/or relevant coverage of music, film and visual arts) gets outside of the States. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: New Music for guitars in RealAudio Date: 10 Dec 2001 21:41:39 -0600 Hi y'all, This week on Mappings , you'll hear music by Acoustic Guitar Trio (Alex Cline, Jim McAuley, Rod Poole), Arthur Bull & Daniel He=EFkalo, Loren Mazzacane Connors, Mario Davidovsky, Nick Didkofsky, Judy Dunaway, David First, Fred =46rith, Phil Kline, Ren=E9 Lussier, Carolyn Master, Steve Reich, Terry Riley, Roger Smith, and Davey Williams. The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0600 GMT) and will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program, featuring electro-acoustic music by Maggi Payne is still available in the Mappings archive , where you can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998. Hope you tune in to the program. Bests, Herb - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: Roger, Wilco... Date: 10 Dec 2001 22:41:56 -0500 'Yankee Hotel Foxtrot,' the fourth album by alt-country band Wilco which was rejected by former label Warner Bros, is now set for release in April on Nonesuch, it was reported in Billboard Bulletins daily news service a few days ago. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Roger, Wilco... Date: 10 Dec 2001 22:57:52 EST In a message dated 12/10/01 10:43:42 PM, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: << 'Yankee Hotel Foxtrot,' the fourth album by alt-country band Wilco which was rejected by former label Warner Bros, is now set for release in April on Nonesuch, it was reported in Billboard Bulletins daily news service a few days ago. >> I don't pay much attention to the label shuffle these days, but the last I heard Nonesuch was a division of Warner. is that no longer the case? Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Roger, Wilco... Date: 11 Dec 2001 00:22:35 -0500 Nonesuch is more or less an independent label distributed and marketed by Atlantic Records, which is indeed part of the AOL Time Warner conglomerate. The label is afforded almost complete autonomy, bought through sound fiscal practice - in essence, selling hundreds of thousands of copies of discs by the Gypsy Kings and Buena Vista Social Club to underwrite their less commercial offerings, whether it be Richard Goode playing Mozart, Gidon Kremer playing Piazzolla, Bill Frisell playing Frisell or simply offbeat pop acts like Sam Philips, Emmylou Harris and even, it appears, Wilco. This is the way that the aesthetically concerned and ethical record company has been believed to act throughout the history of the business, using commerce to underwrite art (and in Nonesuch's case, uniquely, even their "bestsellers" could hardly be construed as sell-outs). Atlantic, on the other hand, is another story altogether. Despite the presumed successes of their pop division, reportedly they've completely gutted the jazz division (lately called "Division One") again, with more "commercial" acts like James Carter and Cyrus Chestnut (not to mention, obviously their smooth jaz acts) reassigned to the Warner Jazz roster where they join the likes of Pat Metheny, Brad Mehldau and Joshua Redman. Artists like Olu Dara and Marc Ribot, the story continues, are now once more outside looking in. (That last part is unconfirmed but comes from trustworthy sources.) At least 'Saints' came out before Ribot was dropped. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of JonAbbey2@aol.com I don't pay much attention to the label shuffle these days, but the last I heard Nonesuch was a division of Warner. is that no longer the case? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: Minus Date: 11 Dec 2001 00:45:41 -0500 Clipped verbatim from the King Crimson newsletter Elephant Talk, for reasons that will become evident... well, okay, for the new kids on the block, Dave Trenkel is a LLOOONNNGGG time Zornlister (and did not in any way induce me to post this). Thought this might appeal to the closet proggies out there. I am resplendent in divergence, Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com === Greetings ETers. I'd like to call your attention to a band I think would appeal to many who enjoy KC and similar music. They're called Minus and are from Oregon; bassist/ keyboardist Dave Trenkel and guitarist Mark France are well known in this part of the state for their involvement with many jazz, experimental, and "progressive" projects, and drummer Henry Franzoni was a founding member of Portland's Caveman Shoestore (which once collaborated w/ Hugh Hopper--but that's another story). All 3 are extremely talented players. Minus is all-instrumental and shares with KC a penchant for dark, heavy textures and fleet-fingered excursions in odd time signatures. The first, self-titled CD is 100% improvised and has more of an industrial/ dark ambient feel to it (lots of menacing atmospheric stuff); the newest "Dark Lit" features more composed material and covers a range of styles from crushing riff-heavy prog metal to dub to quasi-funk/ fusion. Though more structured than the earlier pure improvs, the tunes are by no means static: it's not unusual for a 5-minute piece to evolve through several changes of tempo, dynamics, and texture. Their CDs are carried by Wayside record distributors, or can be ordered directly from their label, New & Improv Music. Email is newimprov@aol.com . - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: black compositions Date: 11 Dec 2001 17:31:08 +1100 I've just been admiring Jim Black's composition work on the Pachora releases (and of course his own AlasNoAxis), and was wondering whether there are any other recorded examples of his composition? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: RE: Zorn with WDR orchestra - Dec 14-15 Date: 11 Dec 2001 11:10:08 +0100 you´re right, Steve. Some months ago there was an entry on www.wdr.de/radio/orchester/sinfonieorchester/konzerte/index.html concerning this composition but disappearing meanwhile. It still remains for the US-tour (obviously false)... I´m compiling a concert list for Germany (mostly Rhein-Main area) and some more distant festivals and someone forwarded this to the z-list. Apology for this misinformation. Andreas PS: if someone is interested in receiving this concert list, drop me a line... >From: "Steve Smith" > >Stranger still - I remember reading somewhere... wasn't it here, in fact, >in >Ljova's or Jeni Dahmus's recap of the Zorn talk at Miller?... that Zorn's >Double Piano Concerto had been cancelled outright because Katia and >Marielle >LaBecque were meddling too much. I know it's no longer on the WDR >Orchestra's American tour program... _________________________________________________________________ Downloaden Sie MSN Explorer kostenlos unter http://explorer.msn.de/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= Subject: Re: black compositions Date: 11 Dec 2001 13:01:31 +0100 Hi, > I've just been admiring Jim Black's composition work on the Pachora releases > (and of course his own AlasNoAxis), and was wondering whether there are any > other recorded examples of his composition? As far as I know, those are Black's only recorded compositions under his own name. Maybe he also contributed as a composer to other bands in which he's participated, like Human Feel, but I don't think so. However, I really think he's much better a drummer than a composer, although there are tastes for everyone. Many people enjoyed AlasNoAxis, while I found it very disperse (at least their live performance in BCN). You should be looking forward to their next release through Winter & Winter soon. All the best, Efrén del Valle n.p: Charlie Haden "Liberation Music Orchestra" (Impulse!) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Emmanouil Papagiannakis Subject: DVD region2 question Date: 11 Dec 2001 13:11:04 +0100 (MET) I have been looking for DVDs lately but couldnt find many of interest, apart from the Mingus "unleashing the underdog" and another one that contained among others a ~20 min part of the Coltrane quartet. Does anyone have an idea about what stuff on free/impro jazz exists in Europe? I couldn't find the Sun Ra DVD that was mentioned on the list recently. Any help is appreciated manolis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ricardo Jorge" Subject: Good Idea for Mr Zorn's compositions... Date: 11 Dec 2001 12:37:08 +0000 have you ever thought about a 5 star tenors composition featuring: Mike patton Yamatsuka eye Blixa Bargeld (from Einsturzende Neubauten) Masonna The singer from Residents that would make my day!!!! _________________________________________________________________ Chegou o novo MSN Explorer. Instale já. É gratuito! http://explorer.msn.com.br - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: black compositions Date: 12 Dec 2001 01:03:16 +1100 Don't get me wrong, I see him as a drummer first and foremost and would rank him as one of the most amazing and sensitive drummers (and musicians) around. I was just impressed by his compositions, more on the Pachora stuff than AlasNoAxis. While Speed writes some really good stuff, the few Black compositions are real standouts for me on those albums... > However, I really think he's much better a drummer than a composer, although > there are tastes for everyone. Many people enjoyed AlasNoAxis, while I found > it very disperse (at least their live performance in BCN). You should be > looking forward to their next release through Winter & Winter soon. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Fwd: Re: black compositions Date: 11 Dec 2001 15:57:49 +0100 (CET) Hi again, > Don't get me wrong, I see him as a drummer first and > foremost and would rank > him as one of the most amazing and sensitive > drummers (and musicians) > around. I was just impressed by his compositions, > more on the Pachora stuff > than AlasNoAxis. Glad to see we're on the same page regarding Black. I also have those impressions on his playing and consider him one of the most inventive drummers in the scene right now, specially among the youngest sector. I was also really surprised by Michael Sarin in the Witness performance in BCN. I'd heard him with Thomas Chapin but he's definitely a "live man" in my opinion. I found some sort of connection between Sarin and Black which I hadn't noticed before seeing both on stage. While Speed writes some really good > stuff, the few Black > compositions are real standouts for me on those > albums... Unfortunately, I can't totally agree with you on that. I think Speed is a good composer when it comes to Balkans/klezmer-oriented stuff but not when he tries to write jazz. He's a bit stiffy, IMHO. Just an opinion. Best, Efrén del Valle _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: black compositions Date: 11 Dec 2001 08:05:25 -0800 (PST) A counter point... The other speed/black project, Yeah No, I think a great example of speed's compositional and group leading skills. The most recent record, emit, touches on the balkans but also gets into a hard angular jazz. There is one track in specific, #4 I believe, that is a downtempo tune that starts out with just skuli and black, coung's tone coming into that song give me the chills. So what about coung vu as a composer vs. player? Any news on the new alasnoaxis w&w release [ssmith??] > Unfortunately, I can't totally agree with you on that. > I think Speed is a good composer when it comes to > Balkans/klezmer-oriented stuff but not when he tries > to write jazz. He's a bit stiffy, IMHO. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Non-JZ FS: Drumm/Rainey + Alboth!, Le Syndicat etc. Date: 11 Dec 2001 14:19:50 -0500 Hi all, Brand new/mint copy of the following that I must part with ... $14 US air mail POSTAGE PAID in North America/$20 US ppd overseas # Kevin Drumm/Bhob Rainey - "Hasn't (1-5)/6 Standing Desert" ITA LP (Fringes: fringes07) 2000 [Drumm uses guitar, synth & laptop to crea= te a nice electroacoustic piece. It builds from silence using mid-to-hi= gh frequency drones, lots of hiss, and wonderful concr=E8te sounds. Rai= ney (nmperign) delivers 3 soprano sax cuts: a pleasant mix of skronk, dro= nes and true "micro" sound (using his breath & air). Ltd. 500 on clear v= inyl. Both sleeve & labels feature b/w photos by Renato Rinaldi.] Also of possible interest ... * US$ POSTAGE PAID * in North America (more for overseas) $20 -- Alboth! - "Liebefeld" GER CD (PDCD: cdppp112) 1992 [Brilliant sophomore album from this Swiss quartet. Produced by Kevin Martin (God, Ice, Techno Animal). Feat. Alex Buess (16-17), Werner L=FCdi, and Hans Koch. Deleted.] $26 -- Carl Stone - "Em:t 1196" UK CD (T:me/Em:t) 1996 $19 -- Le Syndicat - "Ignitur" HOL LP (Staalplaat: sp003) 1992 [Intense neoclassical, percussive, loop-based musique brut from 1988-1989. Limited & numbered (435/1000). Mint. Deleted.] $18 -- Monde Bruits - "Selected Noise Works 93-94" JAP/US CD (Endorphin= e Factory/Charnel: edp-009) 1994 [Excellent harsh noise work. Mixed and mastered by Akifumi Nakajima (Aube).] -Patrick pm.carey@utoronto.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Verstraeten Stefan" Subject: looking for someone who lives in the UK (off topic) Date: 11 Dec 2001 20:38:02 +0100 Hello, sorry for this of list message, but I need the help from someone who lives in the UK. I want to place an order on a website (Harrods) that unfortunately does not deliver in the UK. So if someone -living in the uk- wants to help me with this, please reply me off list. Thanks in advance, Stefan Verstraeten Stefan.Verstraeten@belgacom.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: NYC concert reminder: John Butcher/Phil Durrant tonight Date: 11 Dec 2001 14:41:46 EST just a quick reminder that John Butcher and Phil Durrant bring their electromanipulation/live processing duo to NYC tonight, to kick off the Experimental Intermedia festival. it's at 224 Centre St., near Lafayette, a few blocks above Canal, 3rd floor, 9 PM, $5. around 8:30, I plan to debut my MIMEO/Tilbury CD (released next March) over Phill's awesome system, and following the show, there will be free champagne. how's that for maximizing your entertainment dollar? Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marius Ergo" Subject: deutche grammophon/winther & winther Date: 11 Dec 2001 23:14:14 +0100 I have not succeeded in finding web sites representing neither of these labels. Anyone here know of any? Marius _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Blechmann Subject: Re: deutche grammophon/winther & winther Date: 11 Dec 2001 23:48:51 +0100 http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/ winter & winter has no homepage (well, i haven't heard about) Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.net ICQ: 96771783 http://nav.to/timblech -- The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!" Jack Kerouac - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Re: black compositions Date: 12 Dec 2001 12:18:39 +1100 > Unfortunately, I can't totally agree with you on that. > I think Speed is a good composer when it comes to > Balkans/klezmer-oriented stuff but not when he tries > to write jazz. He's a bit stiffy, IMHO. Well yeah, in Pachora he writes some good stuff. Yeah No is ok, but generally the ideas don't seem thought out enough. It is helped along a bit by a good band of musicians though. I haven't heard any 'jazz' from Speed though, I guess you mean the trio? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Fwd: Re: Re: black compositions Date: 12 Dec 2001 09:45:41 +0100 (CET) HI, > > Well yeah, in Pachora he writes some good stuff. > Yeah No is ok, but > generally the ideas don't seem thought out enough. > It is helped along a bit > by a good band of musicians though. I haven't heard > any 'jazz' from Speed > though, I guess you mean the trio? Yes, I meant his trio recording, "Iffy" on KFR. I confess I listened to it twice when it was released and threw it inside of a drawer (probably forever). I found not a single substantial highlights on the record, except for a klezmer-styled tune that stood out of the rest of the material there. I had great expectations about the trio (saft and wollesen) but they weren't met. Maybe that's a selfish posture, I don't know. All the best, Efrén _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Re: black compositions Date: 12 Dec 2001 10:06:35 +0100 There are indeed three Jim Black compositions on the Human Feel album "Scatter", on GM records. If memory serves well, Human Feel is Chris Speed Andrew d'Angelo, Kurt Rosenwinkle, Jim Black... and a bassist whose name I must admit I forgot. Don't know the other Human Feel records... Pascal. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marius Ergo" Subject: Re: deutche grammophon/winther & winther Date: 12 Dec 2001 10:06:54 +0100 That easy, huh? I was sure that I had tried that, but I guess I mis-typed it or something. Oh, the incompetence! Thanks anyway Marius >From: Tim Blechmann >To: zorn-list >Subject: Re: deutche grammophon/winther & winther >Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 23:48:51 +0100 > >http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/ > >winter & winter has no homepage (well, i haven't heard about) > > Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.net > ICQ: 96771783 > http://nav.to/timblech >-- >The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, >mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, >the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, >burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across >the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and >everybody goes "Awww!" > Jack Kerouac > > >- > _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: Re: black compositions Date: 12 Dec 2001 11:21:12 +0100 >>>If memory serves well, Human Feel is Chris Speed Andrew d'Angelo, >>>Kurt >>>Rosenwinkle, Jim Black... and a bassist whose name I must admit I >>>forgot. Human Feel plays without bass..... >>>Don't know the other Human Feel records... To be honest, me neither, but I just heard that fact... Regards, Remco >>> >>>Pascal. - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marius Ergo" Subject: Re: deutSche grammophon/winter & winter Date: 12 Dec 2001 11:37:47 +0100 I've got that catalouge too, but I couldn't find any references to any websites, there. So I forgot the "s" in "deutsche", plus I spelled Winter with an h. No wonder why all the search engines I tried came up with nothing... >From: "Remco Takken" >To: "Marius Ergo" >Subject: Re: deutche grammophon/winther & winther >Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:18:53 +0100 > >Winter is just spelled like 'Winter', maybe that helps. Also, I don't >remember having seen a website either. I will look up a paper catalogue >from 2000, I found in a classical shop for you, to see if there's any >reference to a website. >Til soon, Remco > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marius Ergo > To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:14 PM > Subject: deutche grammophon/winther & winther > > > I have not succeeded in finding web sites representing neither of these > labels. Anyone here know of any? > > Marius > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > - > _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors Subject: winter & winter Date: 12 Dec 2001 07:53:12 -0800 (PST) about a year ago there was a site up, it was in really bad shape and probably hurt them more than helped. My guess is that they are coming up with something as we speak. --- Marius Ergo wrote: > > That easy, huh? I was sure that I had tried that, but I guess I > mis-typed it > or something. > Oh, the incompetence! > > Thanks anyway > > Marius > > >From: Tim Blechmann > >To: zorn-list > >Subject: Re: deutche grammophon/winther & winther > >Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 23:48:51 +0100 > > > >http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/ > > > >winter & winter has no homepage (well, i haven't heard about) > > > > Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.net > > ICQ: 96771783 > > http://nav.to/timblech > >-- > >The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to > live, > >mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same > time, > >the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, > >burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders > across > >the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and > >everybody goes "Awww!" > > Jack > Kerouac > > > > > >- > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > > - > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Andy Diaz Subject: VALVEJOB-SAMSARA BACK2BACK. PLUS: ANDREW DRURY Date: 12 Dec 2001 08:56:31 -0800 (PST) Hello SAMSARASOUND FRIENDS....I hope all is well. The following is a gig anouncement for two of my projects, and what follows that is an announcement for my friend Andrew Drury. +++++++++++++++++ VALVEJOB 12/19/01 IZZY BAR 166 1st Ave @10th St. NYC 8-9pm $7 at the door FREEJAZZFORGOOD!!!! STEPHEN GAUCCI, tenor saxaphone. Unique style heavy sound. One day, many years ago, I was improvising on the Fourth floor of the Oddfellows Hall in Seattle. From out the window I heard this raging tenor. It was coming from a cement walled underground garage across the street. DeMars (drummer) and I raged back. This went back and forth for a while until there was a knock at the door to the studio. I thought someone might be complaining about the noise. It was Stephen Gaucci following the sound. He walked in without a word and we continued to play together. DANIEL CARTER, tenor, alto, clarinet, flute, trumpet. I'd seen Daniel play at the VISION FESTIVAL, then with Matthew Shipp and the heavies at the Mercury Lounge show last year. I accidentally heard him play with William Parker and friends in FREEDOMLAND. Being from the Bronx, I understood the significance of "freedomland" so I struck up a conversation after his set. Next thing I know... DAVE REBOI, bass. It only makes sense that when I was planning this quintet, and needed a bass player with a bleeding tone, I should cross paths with him. On the street, broaddaylight. I heard DAVE play like a percussionist on the big bass. Perfect tone for this concept. ANDREW GEENWALD, drums. If you saw SAMSARA at IZZY BAR a few monts ago you may have caught ANDREW. I am blown away every time I hear him. So involved with every aspect of each drum and symbol's sound, he paints a pretty picture on that kit. ANDYDIAZ, I play the trumpet. This group fell together so perfectly. I feel like something big will happen. I hate to speculate, but honestly, I think about it and have a hard time sitting still. SAMSARA ...ALSO>>>SAME NIGHT SAME PLACE (BUT @ 9 PM) CATCH THE LATEST CONCOCTION OF THE IGNEOUS SOUND OF SAMSARA THIS TIME WITH BASSIST JAMIE FORRESTER AND DRUMMER JAN TROJANOWSKI. DRUMANDBASSANDFREEJAZZELECTRIC (NO SECOND COVER, BUT STILL $7 at the Door....YA DIG). ++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hi—Here’s a performance I’m very excited about doing, with a new group called "Seeing Double." Mike Sarin and David Bindman are two old friends, people who go back a long way with me in a lot of formative levels of my life & music, so I’m really psyched to be collaborating with them again. And I’m just plain psyched to be playing with Ned Rothenberg for the first time. Hope you’re having a great December and hope to see you there! --Andrew Drury Seeing Double Friday, December 21 at 8 pm Brooklyn Society for Ethical Culture 53 Prospect Park West (at 2nd Street) Admission: $10 (at the door) For more information: 718.462.9503 Andrew Drury drums & percussion Michael Sarin drums & percussion David Bindman saxophones & flutes Ned Rothenberg saxophones & flutes Two multi-reedists drawing from the deep improvisational pot come across two multi-percussionists who also happen to be childhood friends from Seattle. The many-timbred sax, clarinet, and flute textures meld with drum sets altered by colorful bells and other devices. Rhythmic outlooks draw from odd meter to no meter, structure to no structure, from near silence to locked-in dance grooves. Unusual configurations will result. Andrew Drury has done street performances in Nicaragua and Guatemala, was Artist-in-Residence with the Oneida Nation in 2000, and has photographed 25 drum set solos in outdoor settings west of the Great Plains. Michael Sarin has recorded and played with Thomas Chapin, Dave Douglas, Anthony Coleman, Brad Shepik, and many others. David Bindman co-leads the Brooklyn Sax Quartet, his own Trio, has recorded with Fred Ho, Wadada Leo Smith, Talking Drums, and has collaborated with poet Tyrone Henderson. Ned Rothenberg has presented his solo and ensemble musics worldwide since 1984, and has collaborated with John Zorn, Marc Ribot, and many others. Presented by the Very Good Coffeehouse Coop Concert Series __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: Re: black compositions Date: 12 Dec 2001 11:21:14 -0500 Buncha thoughts on this current thread: 1. The earliest version of Human Feel did have a bass player, John Silverman, but later versions did not. 2. Black wrote tunes on all Human Feel discs except for the third, 'Welcome to Malpesta.' 3. I thought Black's writing for the first alasnoaxis disc showed huge promise, and will only continue to improve as he realizes that he doesn't have to completely fill every minute with new ideas and events. But he's really into density - to wit, he has a real passion for Lutoslawski. 4. Sorry to say I have no insight as to when Black's new W&W disc will be out. But I do know that he had a new, laptop-based project at Tonic last Friday. The same night, he and Skuli appeared on David Letterman, backing Laurie Anderson - don't know if this was new (as in, taped that afternoon) or a rerun. 5. Personally I think Chris Speed's writing has improved on each subsequent yeah, no release. Wasn't the drummer on 'Iffy' actually Ben Perowsky? (I don't have it handy here at the office.) Cuong Vu's writing is more of a mystery - his first disc was full of sharp tunes, but I don't really think of the pieces on his second and third discs (with Stomu and Hollenbeck) as being "written" in quite the same way - feels more like collective improv on a germinal idea. 6. Anyone hear any of Tim Berne's sets last week at the Knit? I missed every damn one of them. He played for four nights - early set was Big Satan plus Taborn, late set that quartet plus Herb Robertson and Scott Colley. First new ensemble music in a while, and I go and miss it. 7. I noticed a few minutes ago on the Screwgun website that the long awaited 2CD Berne big band set, 'Open Coma,' is now available: http://www.screwgunrecords.com/coma.htm 8. Almost entirely unrelated (except in that it's another drummer who most certainly CAN write), Bobby Previte's got a new jazz-oriented release coming in January on the Palmetto label, with Marty Ehrlich, Ray Anderson, Wayne Horvitz, Steve Swallow and guest Joe Bowie. Very fine pieces, and the kind of wonderful blowing we've come to expect from these guys. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: Joey Baron, Was: Re: black compositions Date: 12 Dec 2001 19:44:24 +0100 SSmith wrote: >>Almost entirely unrelated (except in that it's another drummer who most >>certainly CAN write), Bobby Previte's got a new jazz-oriented release - CAN write, Maybe as opposed to Joey Baron ;-) Has anybody else heard of the unlikely coupling of Jasper van 't Hof (Church organ) and Joey. I just bought it this afternoon, and it has some magic moments, between ugly 'jazz go the classics' fragments. The first 'song' on the record is a 'Baron'-composition (drum solo). That one Baron composition feels strange, when one reads in the liner notes, that Van 't Hof recorded his parts in Italy, 1998, where Baron only added overdubs, in a Dutch studio in 2000. np: nothing just played: Jasper van 't Hof & Joey Baron: their new release on Challenge Records - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Joey Baron, Was: Re: black compositions Date: 13 Dec 2001 10:51:18 -0800 Before dismissing Baron as a composer, I would listen again. Granted, he's not Wayne Shorter, but he's written some things I like very very much. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@browbeat.com (m. rizzi) Subject: NYC Shows? Date: 12 Dec 2001 12:01:36 -0800 (PST) I'm leaving for NYC in the morning, are there any must see shows happening between now and Dec. 20th? thanks, mike rizzi -- rizzi@browbeat.com ----- "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- Hunter S. Thompson - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: NYC shows (Knitting shows anyway) Date: 12 Dec 2001 15:30:26 EST Hello Friends, We are proud to present this week=B9s schedule for Knitting Factory New York= . For detailed information including show descriptions, simply visit our online calendar at: http://www.knittingfactory.com/calendar/index2.cfm And don=B9t forget: The Knit presents FREE live music every night in the Tap Bar from 11PM to 2AM Tue- Sat; 10PM to 1AM Sun-Mon. Knitting Factory is the home of the Progressive Happy Hour. Without further ado, here is THIS WEEK=B9S TRIVIA QUESTION! ********************************************* Trombonist Josh Roseman has worked as a sideman for MMW, Charlie Hunter, Lester Bowie, John Zorn, Uri Caine, Don Byron, and Cibo Matto among many others. Name an album; that=B9s right, any album where he appears as a sideman. =20 ********************************************* Send all responses to customerrelations@knitmedia.com. The first person to submit the correct answer will win two tickets to: Knitting Factory Records Presents Josh Roseman Unit, w/ special guest DJ Logic on Dec 17th.=20 --------------------------- WEDNESDAY, DEC 12 Main Performance Space 8:30 PM | $12.00 Adam Franklin (of Swervedriver), Steve Wynn & The Miracle Three Steve will begin with a set of his solo material. The second set will be a Dream Syndicate album: "Wine and Roses" performed in its entirety. Old Office 9:00 PM | $7.00 Natural Extension Concept 11:00 PM | $8.00 Joe Russo=20 ----------------------- THURSDAY, DEC 13 Main Performance Space 8:00 & 10:30 PM | $12.00 / $14.00 Marc Ribot y Los Cubanos Postizos Old Office 9:30 PM | $8.00 Learned Evolution, Mobius Band ------------------- FRIDAY, DEC 14 Main Performance Space 7:00 PM | $5.00 Flicker Film Festival Presents Attack of the 50 Foot Reels Twenty local filmmakers have all taken on the challenge of making a short film shot entirely on one roll of Super 8. These rolls have been taken directly from their cameras, processed, and the results of this bizarre experiment will be shown for the very first time at Knitting Factory. 10:00 PM | $15.00 / $17.00 Genitorturers=20 Old Office 8:00 & 9:30 PM | $10.00 Mat Maneri Septet=20 Mat Maneri =AD viola, Joe Maneri =AD reeds, Dan Levin =AD cello, Tim Berne=20= =AD alto, Matt Moran =AD vibes, Mark Dresser =AD bass, Tim Rainey - drums ------------------------- SATURDAY, DEC 15 Main Performance Space 7:00 PM | $10.00 The Queers, The Independents, Clearview 77 10:30 PM | $10.00 The Figgs, Cry Baby Cry Old Office 8:00 & 9:30 PM | $10.00 Mat Maneri Septet=20 Mat Maneri =AD viola, Joe Maneri =AD reeds, Dan Levin =AD cello, Dave Ballou= =AD cornet, Craig Taborn =AD wurlitzer, Ed Schuller =AD bass, Randy Peterson - d= rums 11:30 PM | $8.00 Hiway Freeker Presents The Bob Dylan Project -------------------- SUNDAY, DEC 16 Main Performance Space 8:00 PM | $15.00 Myra Melford's Equal Interest 10:15 PM | $7.00 Coptic Light, Black Dice ----------------------- MONDAY, DEC 17 Main Performance Space 9:00 PM | $10.00 Knitting Factory Records Presents Josh Roseman Unit, w/ special guest DJ Logic Old Office 8:00 & 9:30 PM | $8.00 Sean Smith Quartet=20 11:00 PM | $0.00 Eclectic Sensations with DJ Insane --------------------- TUESDAY, DEC 18 Main Performance Space 8:00 PM | $8.00 Particle Old Office 11:00 PM | $5.00 DJ Scram Jones=20 Upcoming Highlights: *Ben Perowsky, Steven Bernstein, DJ Olive, Oren Bloedow, Marcus Rojas, Doug Wieselman 12/20* *Jewsapalooza Festival 12/22-12/25* *Lake Trout 12/29* *Evan Dando and Rebel Crue 2002 12/30 * *Luna 12/31* =20 For the complete Main Space schedule go directly to http://www.knittingfactory.com/calendar/index2.cfm See what's cooking in the Old Office every night at=20 http://www.knittingfactory.com/calendar/oo_calendar_frames.cfm For the Knitactive Soundstage schedule go directly to http://www.knittingfactory.com/calendar/ka_calendar_frames.cfm For tickets click on http://www.knittingfactory.com/calendar or call 212.219.3006 ***** (NOTE: please cut and paste the ENTIRE web addresses above to ensure proper linking, as some email programs experience difficulties) To subscribe or unsubscribe to/from this newsletter please send an e-mail with "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" in the subject and your email address in the body of the email to customerrelations@knitmedia.com. ______________________________________________________________________ Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately,=20 and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: NYC Shows? Date: 12 Dec 2001 15:33:56 -0500 rizzi@browbeat.com wrote: > I'm leaving for NYC in the morning, are there any must see shows happening between now and Dec. 20th? Here's a start. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com (who obviously works at a listings magazine...) Thu, Dec 13: King Crimson + John Paul Jones, Beacon Theater, 8pm. (I know, I know, define "must see") Blonde Redhead, Irving Plaza, 8pm. Erik Friedlander's Grains of Paradise, Tonic, 7:30pm. Benny Golson Quartet, Birdland, 9 & 11pm (through Sunday) David Murray Octet, Iridium, 8:30 & 10:30pm (through Sunday) Satlah, Tonic, midnight Fri, Dec 14: King Crimson + John Paul Jones, Beacon Theater, 8pm (well, I'll be there) Jane Ira Bloom: The Interpretation of Dreams, Tonic, 8pm Philadelphia Experiment, Bowery Ballroom, 8pm Mat Maneri Septet, Knitting Factory, 8 & 9:30pm (through Saturday) Sat, Dec 15: Derek Bailey, John Zorn, Joey Baron & Reggie Workman, Tonic, 8 & 10:00pm John Kelly: Shiny Hot Nights (staggeringly good drag performances of Joni Mitchell), Fez, 7pm Phil Kline's Unsilent Night, Washington Square Park, 6:45pm - New York new music tradition, a caroling procession of boomboxes, fun and free Sun, Dec 16: Jemeel Moondoc, Steve Swell, Tom Abbs, Chad Taylor, William Parker, Daniel Carter, lots more, CBGB downstairs lounge, 7pm Bob Dorough, Iridium, 1-4pm - the voice of Schoolhouse Rock, and the hippest singer in town Myra Melford's Equal Interest, Knitting Factory, 8pm - say, wasn't this the trio with Jenkins and Jarman? It doesn't say so here... Mon, Dec 17: Vince Neil, BB King's Blues Bar, 8pm (you didn't think there would be anything THIS good, did you?) Josh Roseman Unit with DJ Logic, Knitting Factory, 9pm Wed, Dec 19: Wu-Tang Clan, Hammerstein Ballroom, 8pm (do you dare?) DJ Olive + Christian Marclay + Toshio Kajiwara, Luxx, 9pm Charles Gayle Solo, Tonic, 8:00pm Elliott Sharp's Orchestra Carbon Performs SyndaKit, Tonic, 10:00pm Thu, Dec 20: Michael Gira's Angels of Light, Bowery Ballroom, 8pm Ned Rothenberg, Tonic, 8:00pm Susie Ibarra, Sylvie Courvoisier & Ikue Mori, Tonic, 10:00pm And, not for Mike but those those looking ahead, this just in from Tonic... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ New Year's Eve! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mon, Dec 31 >>Celebrate New Year's Eve at Tonic with: *John Zorn's Electric Masada featuring Zorn (sax), Ben Perowsky (drums), Adam Rogers (guitar), Cyro Baptista (percussion) & Jaimie Saft (keys/organ). *Masada featuring Zorn (sax), Dave Douglas (trumpet), Kenny Wollesen (drums)& Greg Cohen (bass). *Steven Bernstein's Millenial Territory Orchestra The singular Bernstein leads his troops into the future while dragging the past kicking and swinging behind. Champagne & Drink specials all night! Show times: -Masada plus Electric Masada, 8pm (doors at 7:15pm), $35 -Electric Masada plus Steven Bernstein's Millenial Territory Orchestra, 11pm (doors at 10:30pm), $45 - Includes Champagne Toast -Both Sets, $65 - Includes Champagne Toast - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Theo Klaase Subject: winter & winter Date: 12 Dec 2001 12:51:27 -0800 (PST) Personally, I think Jim Black's "Alas No Axis" album is the best stuff Winter & Winter has released in the last 2 years.... -Theo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig S Nixon Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #640 Date: 12 Dec 2001 20:56:02 -0500 Steve Smith wrote: >>The earliest version of Human Feel did have a bass player, John Silverman, but later versions did not. Mebbe so, but the bassist on the disc mentioned, "Scatter", was Joe Fitzgerald. Available (for 8.99, I might add) here: http://www.gmrecordings.com/gm3024.htm. OK, back to lurking again.... craig nixon revolution in sound greenville, sc ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig S Nixon Subject: Re:Black Compositions Date: 12 Dec 2001 20:59:33 -0500 Steve Smith wrote: >>The earliest version of Human Feel did have a bass player, John Silverman, but later versions did not. Mebbe so, but the bassist on the disc mentioned, "Scatter", was Joe Fitzgerald. Still available (for 8.99, I might add) here: http://www.gmrecordings.com/gm3024.htm. Back to lurking now.... craig nixon revolution in sound greenville, sc ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fastian@aol.com Subject: Re: black compositions/Vu/Berne Date: 12 Dec 2001 21:14:51 EST ssmith36@sprynet.com ( Steve The Great) writes: << 1. The earliest version of Human Feel did have a bass player, John Silverman, but later versions did not. >> Is this the "Remains" cd? Does someone know where you can get this, the 1st cd? >>2. Black wrote tunes on all Human Feel discs except for the third, 'Welcome to Malpesta.'<< That being my least favorite. He writes quite a few on their last one "Speak To Me" which is a kick ass cd. >>5. Personally I think Chris Speed's writing has improved on each subsequent yeah, no release. Wasn't the drummer on 'Iffy' actually Ben Perowsky? (I don't have it handy here at the office.) Cuong Vu's writing is more of a mystery - his first disc was full of sharp tunes, but I don't really think of the pieces on his second and third discs (with Stomu and Hollenbeck) as being "written" in quite the same way - feels more like collective improv on a germinal idea.<< Yes it is Perowsky on the "Iffy" cd. No one ever seems to mention the Ben Perowsky Trio cd on JazzKey with Speed and Colley. Its lo-fi with a lot of crowd noise but its a great chance to here Speed really stretch out. Switching to Vu, some things of his that are out which are more tuneful that don't include his recent foray into electronics( not that it would be bad) include The Ragged Jack band on Avant w/ Saft, D'Angelo, and Black; Andy Laster's "Interpretations Of Lessness" with Vu taking the place of Herb Robertson whose usually in the band; and Previte's "Too Close to the Pole", one of the best Prevites out there. >>7. I noticed a few minutes ago on the Screwgun website that the long awaited 2CD Berne big band set, 'Open Coma,' is now available: http://www.screwgunrecords.com/coma.htm<< Thanks for the valuable info. I haven't checked the site for awhile. I ordered that puppy as well as the Empire Box set which is only $30.00! Cheers, John Threadgould - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se (Stephen Fruitman) Subject: Re: winter & winter Date: 13 Dec 2001 12:28:38 +0100 (MET) They are distributed by Harmonia Mundi in the UK, so maybe there=B4s something there.... Stephen Fruitman Dept of Historical Studies Ume=E5 University SE-901 87 Ume=E5 Sweden - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: black compositions/Vu/Berne Date: 13 Dec 2001 08:25:01 -0800 On Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:14:51 EST Fastian@aol.com wrote: > > ssmith36@sprynet.com ( Steve The Great) writes: > > >>7. I noticed a few minutes ago on the Screwgun website that the long > awaited 2CD Berne big band set, 'Open Coma,' is now available: > http://www.screwgunrecords.com/coma.htm<< > > Thanks for the valuable info. I haven't checked the site for awhile. I > ordered that puppy as well as the Empire Box set which is only $30.00! Wasn't the Open Coma supposed to be released on CRI? Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: Re: black compositions/Vu/Berne Date: 13 Dec 2001 11:54:09 -0500 > Wasn't the Open Coma supposed to be released on CRI? The Open Coma project that I had pushed CRI to release was the original octet version (bloodcount plus Marc Ducret, Baikida Carroll, Erik Friedlander and Dominique Pifarely - sp?). However, delays in fundraising and a change in management meant that the label was effectively moving too slowly for Tim to maintain faith in them. The version that Tim has self-released is with a larger group, the Cologne Arts Ensemble or something to that effect. It's still entirely possible that the octet, or some other project, will eventually appear on CRI - the advisory board has already approved funding. The difficulty is that jazz musicians are generally used to things moving at a faster pace than most classical companies move (especially non-profit labels). If you look at the recording date on a given classical disc, it often takes a few years for recordings to be issued. Interestingly, the jazz column in this week's issue of Billboard talks to the head of CRI about just this need for faster turnaround in jazz. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: A complicated Coltrane quartet concert question! Date: 13 Dec 2001 13:22:58 EST --part1_ba.1e56606d.294a4c02_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings list, I need help sorting out a live Coltrane set I bought recently. The item in question is a double CD called John Coltrane - The Complete Graz Concert, British Charly CPCD 8262-2. There is no recording date listed on the packaging (and I haven't opened it yet). According to some information posted in a review at the Border's/Amazon website, this recording was made November 28 1962. Now here's the problem: I also have the recently released John Coltrane - Live Trane - The European Tours, Pablo 7PACD 4433-2, which is supposedly the complete (?) 1961 - 1963 live European material. However, nothing in this set is listed from the above 11/28/62 date - so....is the new box not so complete, or is the Charly set date information wrong? Anyone? Thanks! Dale. --part1_ba.1e56606d.294a4c02_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings list,

I need help sorting out a live Coltrane set I bought recently. The item in question is a double CD called John Coltrane - The Complete Graz Concert, British Charly CPCD 8262-2. There is no recording date listed on the packaging (and I haven't opened it yet). According to some information posted in a review at the Border's/Amazon website, this recording was made November 28 1962.

Now here's the problem: I also have the recently released John Coltrane - Live Trane - The European Tours, Pablo 7PACD 4433-2, which is supposedly the complete (?) 1961 - 1963 live European material. However, nothing in this set is listed from the above 11/28/62 date - so....is the new box not so complete, or is the Charly set date information wrong? Anyone?

Thanks!

Dale.
 --part1_ba.1e56606d.294a4c02_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: A complicated Coltrane quartet concert question! Date: 13 Dec 2001 13:44:19 -0500 Dale: The date on your Graz recording is absolutely correct. The box set on Pablo is not comprehensive - it's a compilation by Eric Miller of highlights from the radio recordings made during Trane's 1961-63 tours. There's still a lot more material available than what was included in the fairly comprehensive box, and your two purchases should be more complementary than redundant. Just to reveal the secret behind my spontaneously coughing up that factoid, please pay a visit to http://home.att.net/~dawild/, the home page of historian and discographer David Wild, possibly the world's leading expert on Coltrane's (and Ornette's) recorded output, official and otherwise. Everything is there, arranged ever so scrupulously by date (though I can't get the "news" section to work). Great fun. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com (obviously with a bit more time than usual on his hands in the office today...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Re: A complicated Coltrane quartet concert question! Date: 13 Dec 2001 13:45:59 -0500 According to Lewis Porter's definitive John Coltrane: His Life And Music, the Graz concert was indeed Nov. 28. The new box on Pablo is far from complete. Trane played numerous other shows for Norman Granz on those tours. Hope this helps clarify. James Hale TagYrIt@aol.com wrote: > Greetings list, > > I need help sorting out a live Coltrane set I bought recently. The > item in question is a double CD called John Coltrane - The Complete > Graz Concert, British Charly CPCD 8262-2. There is no recording date > listed on the packaging (and I haven't opened it yet). According to > some information posted in a review at the Border's/Amazon website, > this recording was made November 28 1962. > > Now here's the problem: I also have the recently released John > Coltrane - Live Trane - The European Tours, Pablo 7PACD 4433-2, which > is supposedly the complete (?) 1961 - 1963 live European material. > However, nothing in this set is listed from the above 11/28/62 date - > so....is the new box not so complete, or is the Charly set date > information wrong? Anyone? > > Thanks! > > Dale. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: A complicated Coltrane quartet concert question! Date: 13 Dec 2001 13:45:57 -0500 (EST) Dale: First of all what one record company deems "complete" isn't necessarily so, check the various versions of Thelonious Monk's "complete" Blue Note recordings that have come out over the years. Second one idea may be to oipen the package and aurally compare tracks. Sometimes different tracks end up on different labels often under different names and dates. Since it's Charly, part of the infamous BYG group, I think, that's very likely. Thirdly sometimes live concert material is actually made up of bootlegs. Check the audio quality to see if that seems so. (Not all boots have bad sound, but ..)And considering it's Charly -- see above Fourthly check a JC discography on the Web (David Wild has a good one) to see where the date fits, or if it indeed exists. Ken Waxman --- TagYrIt@aol.com wrote: > Greetings list, > > I need help sorting out a live Coltrane set I bought > recently. The item in question is a double CD called John Coltrane - The Complete Graz Concert, British Charly CPCD 8262-2. this recording was made November > 28 1962. > Live Trane - The European Tours, Pablo 7PACD 4433-2, > which is supposedly the complete (?) 1961 - 1963 live European material. However, nothing in this set > is listed from the above 11/28/62 date ===== Ken Waxman mingusaum@yahoo.ca www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Moudry Subject: Fwd: A complicated Coltrane quartet concert question! Date: 13 Dec 2001 12:53:01 -0600 --============_-1203852912==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >From: TagYrIt@aol.com >Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:22:58 EST >Subject: A complicated Coltrane quartet concert question! >To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com >Sender: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com >Status: > >Greetings list, > >I need help sorting out a live Coltrane set I bought recently. The >item in question is a double CD called John Coltrane - The Complete >Graz Concert, British Charly CPCD 8262-2. There is no recording date >listed on the packaging (and I haven't opened it yet). According to >some information posted in a review at the Border's/Amazon website, >this recording was made November 28 1962. > >Now here's the problem: I also have the recently released John >Coltrane - Live Trane - The European Tours, Pablo 7PACD 4433-2, >which is supposedly the complete (?) 1961 - 1963 live European >material. However, nothing in this set is listed from the above >11/28/62 date - so....is the new box not so complete, or is the >Charly set date information wrong? Anyone? > >Thanks! > >Dale. Dale, This question opens a can of worms that has been raging on the Trane List for quite a few weeks. The Pablo set (which does not contain the Graz material), "Live Trane : the European tour" presents wonderful music, but with the most botched discographical information that I've ever seen (even worse that the norm for Joel Dorn's labels). The full story and actual discographical information can be found at: Hope this helps. Saturnally, -- Joe Moudry Office of Academic Computing & Technology School of Education, UAB Master of Saturn Web (Sun Ra, the Arkestra & Free Jazz); Producer/Host of Classic Jazz & Creative Improv on Alabama Public Radio WUAL 91.5 FM Tuscaloosa/Birmingham WQPR 887. FM Muscle Shoals/NW Alabama WAPR 88.3 Selma/Montgomery/Southern AL "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." --de la Vega --============_-1203852912==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Fwd: A complicated Coltrane quartet concert question!
From: TagYrIt@aol.com
Sender: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
Status:  
Greetings list,

I need help sorting out a live Coltrane set I bought recently. The item in question is a double CD called John Coltrane - The Complete Graz Concert, British Charly CPCD 8262-2. There is no recording date listed on the packaging (and I haven't opened it yet). According to some information posted in a review at the Border's/Amazon website, this recording was made November 28 1962.

Now here's the problem: I also have the recently released John Coltrane - Live Trane - The European Tours, Pablo 7PACD 4433-2, which is supposedly the complete (?) 1961 - 1963 live European material. However, nothing in this set is listed from the above 11/28/62 date - so....is the new box not so complete, or is the Charly set date information wrong? Anyone?

Thanks!

Dale.

Dale,

This question opens a can of worms that has been raging on the Trane List for quite a few weeks. The Pablo set (which does not contain the Graz material), "Live Trane : the European tour" presents wonderful music, but with the most botched discographical information that I've ever seen (even worse that the norm for Joel Dorn's labels). The full story and actual discographical information can be found at:

<http://home.att.net/~dawild/livetrane.htm>

Hope this helps.

Saturnally,
--
Joe Moudry
Office of Academic Computing & Technology
School of Education, UAB

Master of Saturn Web (Sun Ra, the Arkestra & Free Jazz);
<http://www.dpo.uab.edu/~moudry>
Producer/Host of Classic Jazz & Creative Improv on Alabama Public Radio
WUAL 91.5 FM Tuscaloosa/Birmingham
WQPR 887. FM Muscle Shoals/NW Alabama
WAPR 88.3 Selma/Montgomery/Southern AL
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."
      --de la Vega
--============_-1203852912==_ma============-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Moudry Subject: Fwd: Re: A complicated Coltrane quartet concert question! Date: 13 Dec 2001 12:55:07 -0600 >Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:44:19 -0500 >From: >To: TagYrIt@aol.com >Cc: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: A complicated Coltrane quartet concert question! >X-Originating-IP: 209.73.60.249 >Sender: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com >Status: > Everything is there, arranged ever so scrupulously by date (though >I can't get the "news" section to work). Great fun. > >Steve Smith >ssmith36@sprynet.com >(obviously with a bit more time than usual on his hands in the >office today...) > >- Steve & Others, For some reason David's page won't display properly in NetScape (either WinDoze or Mac), but does present all of the information when Internet Exploiter is used. Saturnally, -- Joe Moudry Office of Academic Computing & Technology School of Education, UAB Master of Saturn Web (Sun Ra, the Arkestra & Free Jazz); Producer/Host of Classic Jazz & Creative Improv on Alabama Public Radio WUAL 91.5 FM Tuscaloosa/Birmingham WQPR 887. FM Muscle Shoals/NW Alabama WAPR 88.3 Selma/Montgomery/Southern AL "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." --de la Vega - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Joey Baron, Was: Re: black compositions Date: 14 Dec 2001 11:10:14 -0800 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3091173014_7301119_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Ofcourse, I play his 'Down Home' releases quite a lot, but in comparison to the collaborations, his own groups seem a bit easy going and mellow. a world full of Wayne Shorters would be a bore too... Thanks for your insight, Remco Barondown was easygoing and mellow?! skip h --MS_Mac_OE_3091173014_7301119_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: Joey Baron, Was: Re: black compositions

Ofcourse, I play his 'Down Home' releases quite a lot, but in c= omparison to the collaborations, his own groups seem a bit easy going and me= llow. a world full of Wayne Shorters would be a bore too...
Thanks for your insight,
Remco


Barondown was easygoing and mellow?!
skip h
--MS_Mac_OE_3091173014_7301119_MIME_Part-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: Re: Joey Baron, Was: Re: black compositions Date: 13 Dec 2001 20:56:54 +0100 Re: Joey Baron, Was: Re: black compositionsOfcourse, I play his 'Down Home' releases quite a lot, but in comparison to the collaborations, his own groups seem a bit easy going and mellow. a world full of Wayne Shorters would be a bore too... Thanks for your insight, Remco Barondown was easygoing and mellow?! skip h Remco here: To clarify to our other readers on the list: I sent this reply to Skip privately, when he said: "Before dismissing Baron as a composer, I would listen again. Granted, he's not Wayne Shorter, but he's written some things I like very very much." OK, now back to: Barondown was easygoing and mellow?! skip h I now write: No/ Yes. I said Down Home, Barondown is a different story, I have no idea how much credit you must give to the horn guys in arranging the pieces. Baron's DOWN HOME group, and Killer Joey are family though, and easy to pin down to some sort of writing style. It's nothing really fancy for the greatest drummer in the world, these are mainly fun groups: friendly grooving souljazzy pieces, sometimes even bluesy. Nothing dangerous. As said, I play these records with lots of pleasure, but I won't go a long way defending them. It's just soul jazz, and with good soloists, like Arthur Blythe or Amina Claudine Meyers. Bassplayer Tony Scherr is always hired to get a solid groove down, so he's in both groups if I recall rightly. They are fun to check out if they are in your neighborhood, they have a cool, ever smiling drummer as a leader, nothing more, nothing less. Regards, & all respect to Joey, Remco Takken np The Four Tops, Greatest Hits - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Joey Baron, Was: Re: black compositions Date: 14 Dec 2001 13:46:57 -0800 > > I now write: > No/ Yes. I said Down Home, Barondown is a different story, I have no idea > how much credit you must give to the horn guys in arranging the pieces. Actually, by at least one of the horn guy's admissions, it's pretty much all Joey's writing. > > Baron's DOWN HOME group, and Killer Joey are family though, and easy to pin > down to some sort of writing style. It's nothing really fancy for the > greatest drummer in the world, these are mainly fun groups: friendly > grooving souljazzy pieces, sometimes even bluesy. Nothing dangerous. Joey's a very friendly guy. And I think his role in almost every group in which he's played has been to bring that user-friendly vibe to all kinds of "dangerous" projects, ie Masada, Tim Berne etc. His playing is amazing in that he is one of the most risk-oriented, daring players in the world, but he also makes it enjoyable for people who are usually put off by that kind of playing. Testimony is available fr a handfull of old girlfriends I took to see Frisell, Naked City, etc -- no matter how much they didn't like anything else about the shows, they LOVED Joey. > > As said, I play these records with lots of pleasure, but I won't go a long > way defending them. It's just soul jazz, and with good soloists, like Arthur > Blythe or Amina Claudine Meyers. Bassplayer Tony Scherr is always hired to > get a solid groove down, so he's in both groups if I recall rightly. Is "soul jazz" less worthy than the usual tripe-o-phonic contriv-o-matic post-Ornette/post-Miles/post-modern posturing that passes for new music these days? Joey grew up in Richmond, largely playing rhythm'n'blues. It would probably not be honest for him to foresake that when he's playing Joey Baron music. Moreover, it wouldn't dawn on him. Joey is one of the few guys I've ever known who really understands Johnny "Guitar" Watson's genius. > > They are fun to check out if they are in your neighborhood, they have a > cool, ever smiling drummer as a leader, nothing more, nothing less. I gotta disagree. If you can write as beautiful a piece of music as "Bald" or as addictively adventurous as "Punt", you're for real in the deep way. > Best -- skip h > np: Carla Bley, Fancy Chamber Music - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Johnny Guitar Watson (was: Joey was: Jim) Date: 13 Dec 2001 15:01:39 -0800 (PST) --- Skip Heller wrote: > Joey is one of the few > guys I've ever known who really understands Johnny > "Guitar" Watson's genius. This is interesting to me; I've heard very little of Watson's music, and out of context; his name keeps getting dropped by both critics and musicians who I respect, but I've yet to read any estimation of his work. Could you (or anyone else) offer some help with the guy's siginificance, and a good way into his oeuvre? Thanks, and happy holidays to everyone, -----s NP: Leonard Cohen, BEST OF NR: Bret Easton Ellis, GLAMORAMA JV: THE FIVE SENSES (1999) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Felix" Subject: otomo yoshihide Date: 14 Dec 2001 00:52:53 -0000 hello, i was looking for some recomendations for otomo yoshihide's material. I only have the tzadik album "cathode" and his duo with christian marclay "moving parts", as well as having seen him live once with gunther muller and carlos zingaro (that's when i first heard of him, how ogrenant of me :)). having made a search on the web, i found out he's quite a prolific musician, so i don't know where to start! any immediate buys? thanks davidfélix - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brian Olewnick" Subject: Re: otomo yoshihide Date: 13 Dec 2001 20:12:18 -0500 > so i don't know where to start! Ground-Zero - Consume Red/Last Concert/Plays Standards I.S.O. - I.S.O./Gravity Clock Otomo/Voice Crack - Bits, Bots & Signs Otomo Yoshihide - Plays the Music of Takeo Yamashita Those'll get ya started. All great stuff, imho. Brian Olewnick NP: (Various) Leonardo Journal Anthology of Music, Volume 1 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: otomo yoshihide Date: 13 Dec 2001 20:26:29 -0500 I'd certainly put Anode in the same league as Brian's excellent choices, and perhaps Filament 2. At 08:12 PM 12/13/01 -0500, Brian Olewnick wrote: > >> so i don't know where to start! > >Ground-Zero - Consume Red/Last Concert/Plays Standards >I.S.O. - I.S.O./Gravity Clock >Otomo/Voice Crack - Bits, Bots & Signs >Otomo Yoshihide - Plays the Music of Takeo Yamashita > >Those'll get ya started. All great stuff, imho. > >Brian Olewnick > >NP: (Various) Leonardo Journal Anthology of Music, Volume 1 > > >- > > > -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Joey Baron Date: 14 Dec 2001 12:48:15 +1100 A few responses on the Baron front: << Bassplayer Tony Scherr is always hired to get a solid groove down, so he's in both groups if I recall rightly. >> The Down Home bassist is Ron Carter, on the albums at least. << Actually, by at least one of the horn guy's admissions, it's pretty much all Joey's writing. >> Sure Barondown is his writing but it is pretty open music by the sounds of things, and I would think the horns deserve quite a bit of the credit for how it turns out... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Johnny Guitar Watson (was: Joey was: Jim) Date: 14 Dec 2001 18:02:35 -0800 > > --- Skip Heller wrote: >> Joey is one of the few >> guys I've ever known who really understands Johnny >> "Guitar" Watson's genius. > > This is interesting to me; I've heard very little of > Watson's music, and out of context; his name keeps > getting dropped by both critics and musicians who I > respect, but I've yet to read any estimation of his > work. Could you (or anyone else) offer some help with > the guy's siginificance, and a good way into his > oeuvre? His signifigance is that he was just a fantastic player and singer, no matter what period of his career you look into. Get the comp of his 50s work, HOT JUST LIKE TNT (Ace), then cut to the Best Of comp of his seventies funk stuff (on Collectables). Of particular interest -- the guitar solos on "Three Hrs Past Midnight" and the famous one-note solo on "Lonely Lonely Nights". BTW -- do not get the comp entitled THREE HOURS PAST MIDNIGHT, and it contains inferior alt takes. Best -- skip heller http://www.skipheller.com np: Caetano Veloso, LIVROS - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Joey Baron Date: 14 Dec 2001 18:04:28 -0800 > > Sure Barondown is his writing but it is pretty open music by the sounds of > things, and I would think the horns deserve quite a bit of the credit for > how it turns out... > The soloing is pretty open, but the ensemble writing is tightly scripted. I've looked at the music up close. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Johnny Guitar Watson (was: Joey was: Jim) Date: 14 Dec 2001 18:51:28 -0800 > Johnny Guitar was a great player and singer and I LOVE his 70's funk stuff. > He was also a heavy influence on Zappa and worked with him. That's him at the end of "San Bern'dino" and he also sings lead on "Down In France". Interestingly enough, FZ never had JGW playing on any sessions. Food for thought. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew Mitchell" Subject: Re: Johnny Guitar Watson (was: Joey was: Jim) Date: 13 Dec 2001 23:1:33 -0500 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII He also sings on 'Andy' as well. I believe I recall seeing a brief video clip of the 'soiree' from the end of FZ's life that was attended by the Tuvan throat singers, Terry Bozzio, some Irish group (Chieftains members?) and JGW, I think with guitar in hand. Not positive though. I think it was the BBC special done on him. BTW, anybody into Roberto Gerhard, the Spanish/British composer? -matt Interestingly enough, FZ never had JGW playing on any sessions. Food for thought. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
He also sings on 'Andy' as well. 
 
I believe I recall seeing a brief video clip of the 'soiree' from the end of FZ's life that was attended by the Tuvan throat singers, Terry Bozzio, some Irish group (Chieftains members?) and JGW, I think with guitar in hand.  Not positive though.  I think it was the BBC special done on him.
 
BTW, anybody into Roberto Gerhard, the Spanish/British composer?
 
-matt
 
 
Interestingly enough, FZ never had JGW playing on any sessions.  Food for
thought.
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Johnny Guitar Watson (was: Joey was: Jim) Date: 14 Dec 2001 20:42:58 -0800 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3091207378_9367996_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit He also sings on 'Andy' as well. I believe I recall seeing a brief video clip of the 'soiree' from the end of FZ's life that was attended by the Tuvan throat singers, Terry Bozzio, some Irish group (Chieftains members?) and JGW, I think with guitar in hand. Not positive though. I think it was the BBC special done on him. It was indeed. JGW's holding a guitar, but not playing. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com --MS_Mac_OE_3091207378_9367996_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: Johnny Guitar Watson (was: Joey  was: Jim)

He also sings on 'Andy' as well.  
I believe I recall seeing a brief video clip of the 'soiree'= from the end of FZ's life that was attended by the Tuvan throat singers, Te= rry Bozzio, some Irish group (Chieftains members?) and JGW, I think with gui= tar in hand.  Not positive though.  I think it was the BBC special= done on him.

It was indeed.  JGW's holding a guitar, but not playing.
skip heller
http://www.skipheller.com

--MS_Mac_OE_3091207378_9367996_MIME_Part-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Gardner Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #641 Date: 14 Dec 2001 08:01:48 +0000 > Mon, Dec 31 >>> Celebrate New Year's Eve at Tonic with: > *John Zorn's Electric Masada featuring Zorn (sax), Ben Perowsky (drums), Adam > Rogers (guitar), Cyro Baptista (percussion) & Jaimie Saft (keys/organ). > *Masada featuring Zorn (sax), Dave Douglas (trumpet), Kenny Wollesen (drums)& > Greg Cohen (bass). I haven't heard of Adam Rogers can anybody tell me more on him? Richard Gardner - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Re: black compositions Date: 14 Dec 2001 09:19:16 +0100 > 7. I noticed a few minutes ago on the Screwgun website that the long await ed 2CD Berne big band set, 'Open Coma,' is now available: http://www.screwgu nrecords.com/coma.htm Any more info? did you hear them live, or maybe you (or anyone here) just ha ve the cd? > 8. Almost entirely unrelated (except in that it's another drummer who most certainly CAN write), Bobby Previte's got a new jazz-oriented release coming in January on the Palmetto label, with Marty Ehrlich, Ray Anderson, Wayne Ho rvitz, Steve Swallow and guest Joe Bowie. Very fine pieces, and the kind of wonderful blowing we've come to expect from these guys. I just can't wait. Marcin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #641 Date: 14 Dec 2001 11:17:36 +0100 Hi, Richard wrote: > I haven't heard of Adam Rogers can anybody tell me more on him? I've heard him with David Krakauer's Klezmer Madness. You can find him in his both releases for Tzadik and his latest through the French Label Bleu. As far as I recall (haven't played them for awhile), he provided the group an expressive funk guitar sound that made a good contrast with the klezmer stuff. However, I don't know what to think about him sitting in for Marc Ribot in this new Masada electric version. Does anyone here think Rogers' at such a high level? I just find him correct, but never superb. You can also hear him in Norman Yamada's "Being and Time" (Tzadik). Can't tell you much about Rogers' playing here except that the whole record is one of the most boring things I've listened to from Zorn's label. I didn't pay too much attention to the players' contributions, although all of them are superb (Ribot, Mark Stewart, Wieselman, Chris Lightcap, etc...) Best, Efrén del Valle n.p: Fred Frith "Allies" _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mads Ruby" Subject: Open Coma (was: black compositions) Date: 14 Dec 2001 14:00:03 +0100 Marcin Gokieli wrote: > > 7. I noticed a few minutes ago on the Screwgun website that the long = await > ed 2CD Berne big band set, 'Open Coma,' is now available: = http://www.screwgu > nrecords.com/coma.htm >=20 > Any more info? did you hear them live, or maybe you (or anyone here) = just ha > ve the cd? >=20 I=B4ve seen Berne play three times with the Copenhagen Art Ensemble, and = I think the new CD was recorded here in Copenhagen in january. The = project has been going on for almost two years, and went from a very = promising start to an awesome gig featuring Herb Robertson, Marc Ducret, = and of course something like 12-14 other musicians, I forget how many.=20 Berne did a fantastic job arranging this stuff for big band, my advice = would be to get it. It=B4s a limited edition, right? - Anyone have the = disc already? cheers Mads - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: Looking for Bruno Bissonnette's e-mail [No Zorn Content] Date: 14 Dec 2001 13:25:42 Sincerest apologies to the rest of the list members, all several hundred of you ... BB, I lost your email and had a question to ask you about the Merzbow CD. Thanks, WY _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Howard Stelzer" Subject: re: otomo yoshihide Date: 14 Dec 2001 09:15:56 -0500 >i was looking for some recomendations for otomo yoshihide's material. >I >only have the tzadik album "cathode" and his duo with christian >so >i >don't know where to start! Personally, I think his best work is his improvised turntable music. Two essential CDs are "Four Focuses" (Amoebic, Japan) with Otomo, Sachiko M, Martin Tereault and Yasuhiro Otani playing solos and duos in various combinations, and "21 Situations" (Ambiences Magnetiques, Canada) of duos with Martin Tereault. They're both pretty stunning. Hope this helps! Howard Stelzer. Intransitive Recordings. www.intransitiverecordings.com NOW AVAILABLE: int017 M.BEHRENS "Elapsed Time" CD int018 GAL "Relisten" CD COMING LATER: infr01 TOSHIYA TSUNODA "Extracts from Field Recordings Archive #3: Solid Vibration" CD int019 HOWARD STELZER AND JASON TALBOT "Songs" CD int020 NERVE NET NOISE "Meteor Circuit" CD _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ricardo Jorge" Subject: boots Arto, Ribot, Otomo,... Date: 14 Dec 2001 14:42:23 +0000 does anyone has Arto Lindsay, Marc Ribot or Otomo Yoshihide bootlegs for trade????? audio or video _________________________________________________________________ Associe-se ao maior serviço de e-mail do mundo através do MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com/br - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Zorn List Digest V3 #640 Date: 14 Dec 2001 17:19:20 -0500 Correct you are. My bad. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Propaghandi, "Ordinary People Do Fucked-Up Things When Fucked-Up Things Become Ordinary," 'Today's Empires, Tomorrow's Ashes' (Fat Wreck Chords) -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Craig S Nixon Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 8:56 PM Steve Smith wrote: >>The earliest version of Human Feel did have a bass player, John Silverman, but later versions did not. Mebbe so, but the bassist on the disc mentioned, "Scatter", was Joe Fitzgerald. Available (for 8.99, I might add) here: http://www.gmrecordings.com/gm3024.htm. OK, back to lurking again.... craig nixon revolution in sound greenville, sc ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: black compositions/Vu/Berne Date: 14 Dec 2001 17:24:52 -0500 Steve the Great? Hardly! Steve the Loudmouth, more like. The only way I can imagine finding the first Human Feel disc is via Jim or Chris - I'd assume you could drop a line through their websites. I got mine from Jim a few years back when I was setting up the original Screwgun website. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Propaghandi, "New Homes for Idle Hands," 'Today's Empires, Tomorrow's Ashes' (Fat Wreck Chords) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Smey" Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #640 Date: 14 Dec 2001 18:12:35 -0500 > > Mebbe so, but the bassist on the disc mentioned, "Scatter", was Joe > Fitzgerald. Available (for 8.99, I might add) here: > http://www.gmrecordings.com/gm3024.htm. > Wow, I'd really recommend that disc for up-scooping. It has a certain youthful, idealistic enthusiasm about it that I miss on Welcome to Malpesta. I was just playing it for some people the other day, in fact, and they were, like, "wow, what is this?" and I was like, "dude, it's this band called Human Feel," and they were like "oh wow." I mean, like, totally. It's that kind of record. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Duke Pearson Date: 15 Dec 2001 15:57:40 -0800 Does anyone have the personnel info for Duke Pearson's WAHOO album? Pretty amazing stuff. A great deal of proto Dave Douglas Sextet action here. But the copy I have has no personnel (it sure sounds like Joe Handerson and Donald Byrd, but who's the third horn player, bassist, and drummer?) or recording dates. Thanks -- skip heller http://www.skipheller.com np: Perez Prado/Shorty Rogers, VOODOO SUITE - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Duke Pearson Date: 14 Dec 2001 19:16:49 -0500 (EST) Skip: From a pic in the Blue Note Album Cover Art book: Donald Byrd James Spaulding Joe Henderson Bob Cranshae Mickey Roker Spaulding is your (missing) man playing alto saxophone and any flute you hear. Ken Waxman --- Skip Heller wrote: > Does anyone have the personnel info for Duke > Pearson's WAHOO album? Pretty > amazing stuff. A great deal of proto Dave Douglas > Sextet action here. But > the copy I have has no personnel (it sure sounds > like Joe Handerson and > Donald Byrd, but who's the third horn player, > bassist, and drummer?) or > recording dates. > > Thanks -- > skip heller > http://www.skipheller.com > > np: Perez Prado/Shorty Rogers, VOODOO SUITE > > > > - > ===== Ken Waxman mingusaum@yahoo.ca www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Duke Pearson Date: 15 Dec 2001 16:28:11 -0800 > Skip: > > From a pic in the Blue Note Album Cover Art book: > > Donald Byrd > James Spaulding > Joe Henderson > Bob Cranshae > Mickey Roker > > Spaulding is your (missing) man playing alto saxophone > and any flute you hear. > > Ken Waxman What's really amazing is that that's Mickey Roker, with whom I have played. He sounds very different on here. Thank you for the personnel list. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: Re: Joey Baron, Was: Re: black compositions Date: 15 Dec 2001 17:09:22 +0100 Skip Heller wrote: Is "soul jazz" less worthy than the usual tripe-o-phonic contriv-o-matic post-Ornette/post-Miles/post-modern posturing that passes for new music these days? Err, by guys like John Zorn?? Remco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: Re: Johnny Guitar Watson (was: Joey was: Jim) Date: 15 Dec 2001 17:06:46 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D2_01C1858A.E0AE87C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In Europe, JGW was a cult hero, and is still well known to almost = everyone over thirty, and many younger people who listen to the radio: = 'A real mother for you' is still a regularly broadcasted golden oldie. = Watson was one of the most strikingly recognisable blues guitar players, = and very important in giving funk and disco some extra credibility. = Indeed, Watson had different phases in his career. When he died, German TV repeated a complete concert, with a British horn = section (I recognised the great Paul Dunmall playing tenor). To me, the thing that took some of the magic off of Watson guitar style, = was when I actually got to see what it was that he did exactly. During = this 1977 gig, Watson seemed a bit of a one trick pony. No matter what = song the group was playing, Watson used a capodastro to be able to play = all his characteristic bends, and (blues) solos in the same, still = completely unique, fingering style.=20 In fact, Watson played all his solos in the same key (I forgot whether = it was the A-fingering, or the E-fingering). After one-and-a-half hours = of this, I concluded that whoever taped this show, would have owned the = complete Johnny Guitar Watson Guitar Instructional video. I had a great = time listening to his songs and playing, though. His personal friend George Duke helped him a lot when starting his = 'funky' comeback around 1975. Watson kept on playing the blues though, = wity a funky accompaniment.=20 There is printed evidence of the complete Zappa/ Duke/ Watson story, = related to Watsons funky comeback, I just don't remember where I read = it. could be in David Gray's bio MOTHER! That aside, there are many moments in Zappa's guitar playing, where he = openly cites Watsons fingering (on the original vinyl version of Cruisin = with Ruben & the Jets, Zappa's clean electric guitar is up front in the = mix). The song 'I don't Even Care' (on the Meets the Mothers of Prevention = album), has Watson singing, and Zappa copying his guitar style!!!=20 Now, some dry discographical infos on this album, only for those who are = interested in seeking out the best pressing: This 1985 title came out on the verge of cd-era: there are many = different masters on the second hand market. Also, on vinyl Zappa put = that one out in a 'European' and 'US' version, this song was not on the = original US printing. You guys had 'Porn Wars', the PMRC protest piece. The original European LP configuration was available on cd for a very = short time, coupled with the original 'eighties mix of Jazz from hell. As far as I know (I own this album only a modest three times;-) the = longest version of I Don't Even Care is on the first Rykodisc edition = (RCD 10023) from 1986. It's clocked 4'45 there, if someone can compare = that to the current (1993) remaster: it's possible that that one is a = whole minute shorter (the 1990 Bob Stone edition was already edited = down).=20 Regards, Remco Takken ------=_NextPart_000_00D2_01C1858A.E0AE87C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In Europe, JGW was a cult hero, and is still well known to almost = everyone=20 over thirty, and many younger people who listen to the radio: 'A real = mother for=20 you' is still a regularly broadcasted golden oldie. Watson was one of = the most=20 strikingly recognisable blues guitar players, and very important in = giving funk=20 and disco some extra credibility. Indeed, Watson had different phases in = his=20 career.
 
When he died, German TV repeated a complete concert, with a British = horn=20 section (I recognised the great Paul Dunmall playing tenor).
 
To me, the thing that took some of the magic off of Watson guitar = style,=20 was when I actually got to see what it was that he did exactly. During = this 1977=20 gig, Watson seemed a bit of a one trick pony. No matter what song = the group=20 was playing, Watson used a capodastro to be able to play all his = characteristic=20 bends, and (blues) solos in the same, still completely unique, = fingering=20 style. 
 
In fact, Watson played all his solos in the same key = (I forgot=20 whether it was the A-fingering, or the E-fingering). After = one-and-a-half hours=20 of this, I concluded that whoever taped this show, would have owned the = complete=20 Johnny Guitar Watson Guitar Instructional video. I had a great time = listening to=20 his songs and playing, though.
 
 His personal friend George Duke helped him a lot when = starting his=20 'funky' comeback around 1975. Watson kept on playing the blues though, = wity a=20 funky accompaniment.
 
There is printed evidence of the complete Zappa/ Duke/ Watson = story,=20 related to Watsons funky comeback, I just don't remember where I read = it. could=20 be in David Gray's bio MOTHER!
 
That aside, there are many moments in Zappa's guitar playing, where = he=20 openly cites Watsons fingering (on the original vinyl version of Cruisin = with=20 Ruben & the Jets, Zappa's clean electric guitar is up front in the=20 mix).
 
The song 'I don't Even Care' (on the Meets the Mothers of = Prevention=20 album), has Watson singing, and Zappa copying his guitar style!!!
 
Now, some dry discographical infos on this album, only = for those who=20 are interested in seeking out the best pressing:
 
This 1985 title came out on the verge of cd-era: there are many = different=20 masters on the second hand market.  Also, on vinyl Zappa put that = one out=20 in a 'European' and 'US' version, this song was not on the original US = printing.=20 You guys had 'Porn Wars', the PMRC protest piece.
 
The original European LP configuration was available on cd for a = very short=20 time, coupled with the original 'eighties mix of Jazz from = hell.
 
As far as I know (I own this album only a modest three times;-) the = longest=20 version of I Don't Even Care is on the first Rykodisc edition (RCD = 10023) from=20 1986. It's clocked 4'45 there, if someone can compare that to the = current (1993)=20 remaster: it's possible that that one is a whole minute shorter (the = 1990 Bob=20 Stone edition was already edited down).
 
Regards, Remco Takken
------=_NextPart_000_00D2_01C1858A.E0AE87C0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dwayne Subject: Sonny Sharrock/CIMP Date: 15 Dec 2001 12:48:51 -0500 Hey all, Just wondering if any of you, and I'm sure there are a few, have any recommendations as far as Sonny Sharrock is concerned. I recently picked the newly re-issued Marzette and Company(originally on ESP) and I think I've been miisng out. I know Sonny Sharrock has done tons of stuff but where should I start? Is there a certain period I should avoid? I have also found myself picking a number of CIMP discs. Any one have any favorites? So far I've gotten maybe a dozen but there are lots more. thanx for any help, Dwayne - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeroen de Boer Subject: Chuck Schuldiner R.I.P. Date: 15 Dec 2001 21:41:45 +0100 Check: www.emptywords.org Jeroen Jeroen de Boer content director Cyberslag Content Providing Damsterdiep 15 9711SG Groningen The Netherlands t +31(0)503115496 m +31 (0)624814506 f +31(0)503119447 jeroen@cyberslag.nl www.cyberslag.nl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Sonny Sharrock/CIMP Date: 15 Dec 2001 17:08:51 -0500 To discover Sharrock's work, I'd start at the end of his life. Pick up 'Ask the Ages,' his final release, on the Axiom label. Laswell's production is refreshingly unobtrusive, and the band (Pharoah Sanders, Charnette Moffett, Elvin Jones) is solid as a rock. It's not Sharrock's freak-out mode, my any stretch - it's more like a warm celebration of Coltrane circa '62-'64. Moving backward, pick up a disc by Last Exit, the punk-free jazz supergroup that also included Peter Brotzmann, Laswell and Ronald Shannon Jackson. The studio disc 'Iron Path' is to be avoided by all but the utmost Laswell fan (and those who own all the other discs), but aside from that, it's hard to go wrong. My favorite is 'Cassette Recordings '87' on Celluloid, also available under as 'From the Boards' on Enemy and under one of those titles on Charly, too, I think. Sharrock's debut disc, 'Black Woman,' has been reissued by East West in Japan and by Collectables (I think) in the U.S. It's wild and shambolic and frenzied and short. His then-wife Linda is fatured throughout, and her quasi-operatic warbles and Yokoesque shrieks may come as a bit of an acquired taste, but the disc features some pretty amazing drumming from Milford Graves and the debut, I think, of Sharrock's lovely tune "Blind Willie." The next disc, 'Monkey-Pockie-Boo,' has a reputation for being wilder still. I've not heard it, but it's just been reissued on vinyl by Get Back. One sideman appearance that should not be missed is Pharoah Sanders's 'Tauhid,' a great, great album. You might also enjoy hearing Sharrock in the context of Herbie Mann's slick, funky band, where he had been enlisted for freak-out potential - Herbie's attempt to capture the spirit of the late '60s, apparently. He sticks out like a sore thumb, but it can be fun to hear for just that reason. Avoid at all costs (like you'd even find a copy) 'Bird of Paradise,' the wretched album Sonny and Linda made for Mann's Vertigo label. Even I can't find anything nice to say about this meeting of two free-jazz free spirits with cringe-inducing, slack jawed, head bobbing studio hacks. It's like Thurston Moore guesting on an early Spyro Gyra album, but not as interesting as that sounds. There's more, of course, including the handful of discs Sharrock made with his New York electric group for Enemy just prior to 'Ask the Ages' ("Dick Dogs" is a stomping good tune, and Sharrock also wrings beauty out of Kate Bush's "Wuthering Heights" (I think!) on 'Highlife.' These discs were a bit slick, but potent nonetheless. A duo disc with Nicky Skopelitis on the CMP label contained some very tasteful exotica, but the one to grab from this period is the solo disc simply titled 'Guitar' - this one is kind of like a Van der Graaf generator trying to imitate a music box. Just lovely. === As for CIMP, I dislike the sound quality in general on most of their releases and don't buy very many of them, but still wouldn't want to be without their Joe McPhee releases and the recent Braxton discs of (mostly) Andrew Hill material. Have fun! Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Gordon Haskell, "Go Tell Sarah," 'Butterfly in China' (Blueprint) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Herbie Spanier RIP Date: 15 Dec 2001 17:20:22 -0500 Trumpeter Herbie Spanier has passed. Spanier was a member of Paul Bley's band in the 1950s at two key junctures: in New York in the mid'-50s and in LA in 1959, when Bley led his revolutionary band at the Hillcrest Club. Spanier's replacement was Don Cherry. After that, he returned to his native Canada where he worked in a number of different settings. He and Bley reunited a couple of times, including on record for Justin Time. His repertoire of extended techniques put him in the lineage that includes Lester Bowie, Cherry and Dave Douglas. Some younger folks might know Herbie better as the father of saxophonist Calder Spanier, who was with the Charlie Hunter Band until his death in a car accident on the San Francisco Bay Bridge. Herbie Spanier was known for eccentric sense of humor, which was evident both in his music and his off-stage life. Here in Ottawa, he's famous for showing up unannounced for a Bley solo show and then crashing a VIP dinner party for Wynton Marsalis, who had no idea who he was. Spanier would've been 73 on Christmas Day. James Hale - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ryan Novak Subject: Re: Sonny Sharrock/CIMP Date: 15 Dec 2001 14:22:37 -0800 (PST) >From: "Steve Smith" >Subject: RE: Sonny Sharrock/CIMP > >The studio disc 'Iron Path' is to be avoided by all >but the utmost Laswell fan (and those who own all the >other discs), Why's that? ---RN __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Sonny Sharrock/CIMP Date: 15 Dec 2001 17:41:17 -0500 Because Laswell just goes to an extreme with the soft-focus, dubby, sample-laden production, IMO. It's about as fiery as a 10-watt lightbulb, which seems to me to be a misrepresentation of the band and its blow-out live performances. You could view it as an ambient remix, almost. BUT if you really like the band and you've got all the other releases, you might find something to like about 'Iron Path.' I certainly haven't ditched my copy - I just view it as a decent Laswell disc with fabulous sidemen deployed in understated ways, much like any number of other Laswell releases. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Gordon Haskell, "Pelican Pie," 'Butterfly in China' (Blueprint) -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Ryan Novak Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 5:23 PM >From: "Steve Smith" >Subject: RE: Sonny Sharrock/CIMP > >The studio disc 'Iron Path' is to be avoided by all >but the utmost Laswell fan (and those who own all the >other discs), Why's that? - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Herbie Spanier RIP Date: 15 Dec 2001 18:28:01 -0500 (EST) James: What did he die of and where? The only jazz-related obit in today's G&M is of a Scottish Dixieland trombonist who moved to Vancouver. Thus do we honor our native innovators. Ken --- James Hale wrote: > Trumpeter Herbie Spanier has passed. ===== Ken Waxman mingusaum@yahoo.ca www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Berman" Subject: Re: Sonny Sharrock/CIMP Date: 15 Dec 2001 19:12:36 -0500 steves right on on all of these. id add Sharrocks 'Seize the Rainbow' = on Enemy 1987 with the aformentioned Dick Dogs. a kick ass power album = with double drums- abe speller and phereen aklaff as well as melvin = gibbs on bass. also, probably the best context of sonny with herbie = mann is Memphis Underground on Atlantic with Sonny trading solos with a = young Larry Coryell. I think it was 1968 or 69. ----- Original Message -----=20 Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 5:08 PM > To discover Sharrock's work, I'd start at the end of his life. Pick up = 'Ask > the Ages,' his final release, on the Axiom label. Laswell's production = is > refreshingly unobtrusive, and the band (Pharoah Sanders, Charnette = Moffett, > Elvin Jones) is solid as a rock. It's not Sharrock's freak-out mode, = my any > stretch - it's more like a warm celebration of Coltrane circa '62-'64. >=20 > Moving backward, pick up a disc by Last Exit, the punk-free jazz = supergroup > that also included Peter Brotzmann, Laswell and Ronald Shannon = Jackson. The > studio disc 'Iron Path' is to be avoided by all but the utmost Laswell = fan > (and those who own all the other discs), but aside from that, it's = hard to > go wrong. My favorite is 'Cassette Recordings '87' on Celluloid, also > available under as 'From the Boards' on Enemy and under one of those = titles > on Charly, too, I think. >=20 > Sharrock's debut disc, 'Black Woman,' has been reissued by East West = in > Japan and by Collectables (I think) in the U.S. It's wild and = shambolic and > frenzied and short. His then-wife Linda is fatured throughout, and her > quasi-operatic warbles and Yokoesque shrieks may come as a bit of an > acquired taste, but the disc features some pretty amazing drumming = from > Milford Graves and the debut, I think, of Sharrock's lovely tune = "Blind > Willie." >=20 > The next disc, 'Monkey-Pockie-Boo,' has a reputation for being wilder = still. > I've not heard it, but it's just been reissued on vinyl by Get Back. >=20 > One sideman appearance that should not be missed is Pharoah Sanders's > 'Tauhid,' a great, great album. You might also enjoy hearing Sharrock = in the > context of Herbie Mann's slick, funky band, where he had been enlisted = for > freak-out potential - Herbie's attempt to capture the spirit of the = late > '60s, apparently. He sticks out like a sore thumb, but it can be fun = to hear > for just that reason. >=20 > Avoid at all costs (like you'd even find a copy) 'Bird of Paradise,' = the > wretched album Sonny and Linda made for Mann's Vertigo label. Even I = can't > find anything nice to say about this meeting of two free-jazz free = spirits > with cringe-inducing, slack jawed, head bobbing studio hacks. It's = like > Thurston Moore guesting on an early Spyro Gyra album, but not as = interesting > as that sounds. >=20 > There's more, of course, including the handful of discs Sharrock made = with > his New York electric group for Enemy just prior to 'Ask the Ages' = ("Dick > Dogs" is a stomping good tune, and Sharrock also wrings beauty out of = Kate > Bush's "Wuthering Heights" (I think!) on 'Highlife.' These discs were = a bit > slick, but potent nonetheless. A duo disc with Nicky Skopelitis on the = CMP > label contained some very tasteful exotica, but the one to grab from = this > period is the solo disc simply titled 'Guitar' - this one is kind of = like a > Van der Graaf generator trying to imitate a music box. Just lovely. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D >=20 > As for CIMP, I dislike the sound quality in general on most of their > releases and don't buy very many of them, but still wouldn't want to = be > without their Joe McPhee releases and the recent Braxton discs of = (mostly) > Andrew Hill material. >=20 > Have fun! > Steve Smith > ssmith36@sprynet.com > NP - Gordon Haskell, "Go Tell Sarah," 'Butterfly in China' (Blueprint) >=20 >=20 >=20 > - >=20 >=20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Duke Pearson Date: 16 Dec 2001 16:15:38 -0800 > Mickey Roker has always impressed me with his ability to shift gears > remarkably. > The guy who fires up Lee Morgan's "Lighthouse" band sure doesn't sound like > the same guy who kept polite time behind Oscar or Ella. > > James Hale > > Skip Heller wrote: > >> What's really amazing is that that's Mickey Roker, with whom I have played. >> He sounds very different on here. > I used to hear Uri Caine's quartet with him all the time, and my first thought was that he was a full-on modernist. Then I heard him on a Milt Jackson record, and my impression was changed -- he's an ultimate chameleon. Great guy, too. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Johnny Guitar Watson (was: Joey was: Jim) Date: 16 Dec 2001 16:19:36 -0800 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3091364376_9334111_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In Europe, JGW was a cult hero, and is still well known to almost everyone over thirty, and many younger people who listen to the radio: 'A real mother for you' is still a regularly broadcasted golden oldie. Watson was one of the most strikingly recognisable blues guitar players, and very important in giving funk and disco some extra credibility. Indeed, Watson had different phases in his career. -- Totally. But -- not unlike Miles -- his context changed more than his playing, except towards the end of his life, his lines got longer and jazzier. When he died, German TV repeated a complete concert, with a British horn section (I recognised the great Paul Dunmall playing tenor). -- Who has a copy?! To me, the thing that took some of the magic off of Watson guitar style, was when I actually got to see what it was that he did exactly. During this 1977 gig, Watson seemed a bit of a one trick pony. No matter what song the group was playing, Watson used a capodastro to be able to play all his characteristic bends, and (blues) solos in the same, still completely unique, fingering style. -- I don't care if he used someone else's hand! It's not easy stuff, capo or no (and I have tried both). skip heller http://www.skipheller.com --MS_Mac_OE_3091364376_9334111_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: Johnny Guitar Watson (was: Joey  was: Jim)

In Europe, JGW was a cult hero, and is still well known to almo= st everyone over thirty, and many younger people who listen to the radio: 'A= real mother for you' is still a regularly broadcasted golden oldie. Watson = was one of the most strikingly recognisable blues guitar players, and very i= mportant in giving funk and disco some extra credibility. Indeed, Watson had= different phases in his career.

-- Totally.  But -- not unlike Miles -- his context changed more than = his playing, except towards the end of his life, his lines got longer and ja= zzier.

When he died, German TV repeated a complete concert, with a British horn se= ction (I recognised the great Paul Dunmall playing tenor).

-- Who has a copy?!

To me, the thing that took some of the magic off of Watson guitar style, wa= s when I actually got to see what it was that he did exactly. During this 19= 77 gig, Watson seemed a bit of a one trick pony. No matter what song the gro= up was playing, Watson used a capodastro to be able to play all his characte= ristic bends, and (blues) solos in the same, still completely unique, finger= ing style.


-- I don't care if he used someone else's hand! It's not easy stuff, capo o= r no (and I have tried both).
skip heller
http://www.skipheller.com

--MS_Mac_OE_3091364376_9334111_MIME_Part-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Joey Baron, Was: Re: black compositions Date: 16 Dec 2001 16:27:15 -0800 > Skip Heller wrote: > Is "soul jazz" less worthy than the usual tripe-o-phonic contriv-o-matic > post-Ornette/post-Miles/post-modern posturing that passes for new music > these days? > > Err, by guys like John Zorn?? > Remco > > > - > I wouldn't put Zorn in that category at all, because he really imposes his own aesthetic on everything he does. But there are so many groups that imitate the sixties Miles thing (or 60s Blue Note). And I've heard a ton of imitation Ornette groups that sound like they're trying to be Prime Time with the Ornette/Cherry frontline. I won't name names as some of these people are friends of mine. But I find the bulk of it to be to the original stuff what Sha Na Na is to the Flamingos -- a very professional musical paint-by-numbers with even less originality and even more hip posturing. As for the soul jazz world, in places like Philly, Newark, Detroit, etc, that sound never went away, and a great many young players came up in an enviroment where that was the reigning sound of jazz, both fr a player and an audience standpoint. There are corner bars where Gene Ammons' influence is much more than, say, Wayne Shorter's. Frankly, I find that music more fun to listen to. It doesn't take academic intellectualism into account, but then again, neither do I. Although when I hear faux soul jazz, like MMW or the Philadelphia Experiment, it strikes me about the same as the 60s Miles imitators. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ryan Novak Subject: RE: Sonny Sharrock/Iron Path Date: 15 Dec 2001 16:26:09 -0800 (PST) --- Steve Smith wrote: > Because Laswell just goes to an extreme with the > soft-focus, dubby, > sample-laden production, IMO. It's about as fiery as > a 10-watt lightbulb, > which seems to me to be a misrepresentation of the > band and its blow-out > live performances. You could view it as an ambient > remix, almost. Steve, I don't hear the Laswell-to-the-extreme that you do, but I may be comparing it to his more recent stuff where I do find him a little annoying (especially that fusiony synthy volume swelling bass sound he seems to love). But even though Iron Path I guess doesn't exactly capture a live band- and I'm not even exactly sure how much isn't- it's still a great recording to me and I'd listen to it ten times before I listened to Noise of Trouble which I find to be pretty unrewarding. It almost sounds as if they had to pull Brotzmann back in spots to at least give it a little space when they mixed it- you can hear some faint sax still in there if I remember right. I always think I'm being too hard on this recording, but then I listen to it and it just won't grab me- but even now I'm thinking I ought to give it another go. I do agree that Cassette Recordings/From the Board is a hot one though. I never saw Last Exit live and I'm sure this could make a difference, so I can imagine why someone might be scratching their head about why Laswell would produce Iron Path the way he did, but I think it's one of the best. Didn't Lester Bangs or somebody call it one of the greatest heavy metal records ever? :~) ---Ryan N. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stinkipipi@aol.com Subject: Re: Sonny Sharrock/Iron Path Date: 15 Dec 2001 20:31:32 EST --part1_18a.883bf6.294d5374_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > I never saw Last Exit live and I'm sure this could > make a difference, so I can imagine why someone might > be scratching their head about why Laswell would > produce Iron Path the way he did, but I think it's one > of the best. Didn't Lester Bangs or somebody call it > one of the greatest heavy metal records ever? :~) that comment rings a bell for me as well. i seem to recall brotzmann having referred to iron path as a piece of shit, or something in similar terms, though. dave mick harris : http://www.mickharris.net eraldo bernocchi : http://www.eraldobernocchi.net bill laswell and alice coltrane : http://www.geocities.com/slntwtchr --part1_18a.883bf6.294d5374_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit         

I never saw Last Exit live and I'm sure this could
make a difference, so I can imagine why someone might
be scratching their head about why Laswell would
produce Iron Path the way he did, but I think it's one
of the best.  Didn't Lester Bangs or somebody call it
one of the greatest heavy metal records ever?  :~)  


that comment rings a bell for me as well. i seem to recall brotzmann having referred to iron path as a piece of shit, or something in similar terms, though.

dave
mick harris : http://www.mickharris.net
eraldo bernocchi : http://www.eraldobernocchi.net
bill laswell and alice coltrane : http://www.geocities.com/slntwtchr --part1_18a.883bf6.294d5374_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: Re: Sonny Sharrock Date: 16 Dec 2001 02:02:50 >Moving backward, pick up a disc by Last Exit, the punk-free jazz > >supergroup that also included Peter Brotzmann, Laswell and Ronald > >Shannon Jackson. The studio disc 'Iron Path' is to be avoided by all >but >the utmost Laswell fan (and those who own all the other discs), >but aside >from that, it's hard to go wrong. My favorite is 'Cassette >Recordings '87' >on Celluloid, also available under as 'From the >Boards' on Enemy and under >one of those titles on Charly, too, I >think. Just to chime in -- as if I could do anything but after such a thorough (as usual!) response by Mr. Steve Smith -- but my favorite Last Exit Cd is the first, self-titled one. I've probably mentioned that on the list three or four times on the list since I've been on it. I also remember someone else here saying one time that he hated it so much that he placed it in a dish of water and microwaved it (don't ask me why I remember that), so it obviously doesn't do it for everyone. But for me it is a pinnacle of what free jazz-meets-noise rock (or 'punk') could ever possibly be. Completely assaultive, intense stuff from a supergroup that actually lives up to its potential ... You can find these things used or fairly cheap pretty easily if you try. For what it is worth I also did not enjoy the Iron Path studio LP, because that type of slick production is totally at odds with this type of music, to my ears. Also, as Steve sort of mentioned, if you can find Herbie Mann's 'Memphis Underground' (I think that's it -- whichever one has that version of "Hold On, I'm Comin') for cheap, it's worth it because his freak-out guitar solos on there are so totally incongruous and out of place. It's really bizarre ... definitely worth hearing, but I couldn't go so far as to say it's "classic" like Ask the Ages or Last Exit. I also read in a great, very in-depth interview with Sharrock in Guitar Player magazine (!) from like 1990 that he is on Miles Davis' 'Tribute to Jack Johnson' towards the end of the second track, and listening to it that makes sense. Apolgies if this is common knowledge, but he is uncredited on that album ... WY _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: Re: Sonny Sharrock/Last Exit Date: 16 Dec 2001 02:26:34 >I never saw Last Exit live and I'm sure this could make a difference, >so I >can imagine why someone might be scratching their head about why >Laswell >would produce Iron Path the way he did, but I think it's one >of the best. Didn't Lester Bangs or somebody call it one of the >greatest >heavy metal records ever? :~) Well, it couldn't have been Lester Bangs b/c he was dead several years before then. Maybe it was that guy Chuck Eddy who did that snide 500 Best Metal Albums book or whatever it was called. But Iron Path? Heavy??? He (whoever it was) would have to deaf ... Speaking of heavy, crazy, noisy, wall-of-sound, losing-your-mind sort of stuff, if you are into that and the group Wolf Eyes comes to your town, do not miss them. I saw them last night (third time this week, they are on tour from Michigan and in California now) and it was absolutely amazing. Not that they sound like Last Exit or anything, but some of the overall spirit is the same (I'm speaking of the first Lat Exit album, that is -- not Iron Path!). WY _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Sonny Sharrock/CIMP Date: 15 Dec 2001 21:21:46 -0600 On Sat, Dec 15, 2001 at 05:08:51PM -0500, Steve Smith wrote: > Moving backward, pick up a disc by Last Exit, the punk-free jazz supergroup > that also included Peter Brotzmann, Laswell and Ronald Shannon Jackson. The > studio disc 'Iron Path' is to be avoided by all but the utmost Laswell fan > (and those who own all the other discs), but aside from that, it's hard to > go wrong. Really? That's the one I enjoy most, though perhaps the most conventional-sounding recording. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: RE: Sonny Sharrock/CIMP Date: 16 Dec 2001 01:02:59 -0500 >Avoid at all costs (like you'd even find a copy) 'Bird of Paradise,' This is rare? (Title is just "Paradise.") I picked up a used copy a few years ago for two or three bucks and think I've seen more around. You're right about it being bad, though: I listed to the first side once and couldn't do any more.... LT Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Documentary Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Revue des Fossiles" Subject: New Directions From Tzadik Date: 16 Dec 2001 11:14:27 -0800 responding to a thread from about a month ago: i'd love to see tzadik begin an archival reissue program centering on zorn's work in japan during the 80s. top contenders would include zorn's performances with masayuki takayangi, yuji takahashi, and keiji haino along with john's ensemble works "pandora's box," "ruan ling yu," and "five hundred statues." a 3" cd single of zorn's "blue of noon" would also be a very welcome reissue. - rdf _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: Re: New Directions From Tzadik Date: 16 Dec 2001 21:09:39 +0100 Revue des Fossiles wrote: i'd love to see tzadik begin an archival reissue program centering on zorn's work in japan during the 80s. I guess there's always someone saying 'give me more, tell me more'. I am wrestling myself through the Parachute Years lately (1977-1980), and I feel a Japanese box set could be a cool follow-up. I had never heard the old Parachute vinyl, and I am completely unaware of the 80s Japanese records, so I am very curious. On the other hand: boxes like ParachuteYears are extremely expensive, you don't easily buy two of those babies. So to be curious for another cool project, is a different thing than to actually buy it;-) Regards, Remco Takken np: another piece of archival stuff (found second hand): Miles & Gil's complete recordings: Miles Ahead, the reconstructed stereo mix. nr: Cook & Morton's jazz guide (3rd edition) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: New Directions From Tzadik Date: 17 Dec 2001 12:29:37 -0800 > responding to a thread from about a month ago: > > i'd love to see tzadik begin an archival reissue program centering on zorn's > work in japan during the 80s. top contenders would include zorn's > performances with masayuki takayangi, yuji takahashi, and keiji haino along > with john's ensemble works "pandora's box," "ruan ling yu," and "five > hundred statues." > > a 3" cd single of zorn's "blue of noon" would also be a very welcome > reissue. > > - rdf What's "Blue At Noon"? skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: New Directions From Tzadik Date: 16 Dec 2001 23:29:03 +0100 > On the other hand: boxes like ParachuteYears are extremely expensive, you > don't easily buy two of those babies. So to be curious for another cool > project, is a different thing than to actually buy it;-) I've just bought a second hand copy, and I paid about 50 USD for the whole thing. Got a vinyl playter the same day, and a frith 'live in Japan' d 2LP deluxe edition. :-)))) > np: another piece of archival stuff (found second hand): Miles & Gil's > complete recordings: Miles Ahead, the reconstructed stereo mix. > we all love all that second hand stuff don't we? I wonder who could sell such stuff. I mean, if someone actually buys a parachutre years box, he pays a lot for it. Doesn't he know what he buys? To the point of selling in mint condition, unused - and if I paid 50 bucks for it, he got at most 30 bucks from the 2hand dealer for the box. I also got a davis-trane box for the same cash. > nr: Cook & Morton's jazz guide (3rd edition) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Sonny Sharrock Date: 16 Dec 2001 23:34:56 +0100 BTW, a box of 'tribute to JJ' sessions is supposed to be release in near future. Does anyone has any info about that? ----- Original Message ----- > I also read in a great, very in-depth interview with Sharrock in Guitar > Player magazine (!) from like 1990 that he is on Miles Davis' 'Tribute to > Jack Johnson' towards the end of the second track, and listening to it that > makes sense. Apolgies if this is common knowledge, but he is uncredited on > that album ... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Sonny Sharrock Date: 16 Dec 2001 23:34:56 +0100 BTW, a box of 'tribute to JJ' sessions is supposed to be release in near future. Does anyone has any info about that? ----- Original Message ----- > I also read in a great, very in-depth interview with Sharrock in Guitar > Player magazine (!) from like 1990 that he is on Miles Davis' 'Tribute to > Jack Johnson' towards the end of the second track, and listening to it that > makes sense. Apolgies if this is common knowledge, but he is uncredited on > that album ... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Matsumoto Subject: Open, Coma Date: 16 Dec 2001 15:11:16 -0800 (PST) Just got Tim Berne's "Open, Coma" in the mail yesterday - woo hoo! Haven't been able to listen to the whole thing yet, unfortunately, but the first track, the title track, is awesome: tight ensemble passages, well-meshed open-improv passages, great sound fidelity (warning: i have no ear for sound fidelity and may be wrong on this last part). Lots of 12/8 meter in the first track too -- very nice piece. "The Legend of P-1" is on here, too - can't wait to give that a listen. Very elegant packaging, too. Not much else to say so far -- I just wanted to brag that i was the first on my block to get one. :) -- Craig Matsumoto Jazz Director, KZSU-FM (Stanford University) jazz@kzsu.stanford.edu KZSU - 90.1 FM P.O. Box 20510 Stanford, Calif. 94309 (+1) 650-623-4839 http://kzsu.org - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Revue des Fossiles" Subject: Re: New Directions From Tzadik Date: 16 Dec 2001 15:34:59 -0800 Skip Heller Wrote: <> 094 - WHAT ELSE DO YOU DO ? A Compilation of Quiet Music This record features songs by Pale Face, Dean Wareham, Bongwater, Dogbowl, Suzie Unger, Daniel Johnston, David Keener, Tuli Kupferberg, Christian Marclay & Catherine Jauniaux, Azalia Snail, King Missile, Mr. Elk & Mr. Seal, Men & Volts, The Tinklers, Fred Lane, The Hat Brothers, Rebby Sharp, False Prophets, Tamela Glenn, Daved Hild, Lida Husik, Kramer, John Zorn. 23/ Blue Of Noon (Zorn) 1:05 No recording information Wayne Horvitz: keyboards; David Hofstra: bass; Carol Emanuel: harp; Jim Staley: trombone; Robert Previte: drums; Anthony Coleman; organ; David Weinstein: keyboards. 1990 - Shimmy Disc, SDE 9021 (CD) 199? - Shimmy Disc (USA), SHM5034 (CD) Note: (23) is only available on the CD pressings. its a beautiful piece of music. i don't know if zorn wanted to develop this idea further or if this is his final statement regarding the novel by bataille. whatever the case, the version here is a real winner. Remco Takken Wrote: <> given the sheer number of performances that zorn was involved with inside of japan which have never even seen official release, i think a comprehensive boxset is definitely out ot the question. something not out of the question would be starting up another "tzadik series" and releasing these recordings slowly to avoid market saturation and consumer confusion. while on the topic of the parachute box set, i've always wondered why "duo," "school," "2000 statues," and "there'll be no tears tonight." weren't included. is there some kind of bad blood between chadbourne and zorn, or is this stuff slated for a "parachute years box two set" sometime in the future? - rdf. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ricardo Reis Subject: Vietnam and China: audioturism [NZC] Date: 17 Dec 2001 14:41:44 +0000 (WET) Hi, i'm still catching up with a lot of digest posts and don't know if anyone already mentioned this: "Vietnam and China", an eight track CD resulting from the recollection between June 2000 and May 2001 of sounds in Vietnam and China. These were them "processed" and "compiled" (sampled?) providing an interesting way to make audioturism. besides the good music, the booklet brings amazing photos and a map of where these where taken (in China and Vietnam) along with audio samples location. last page brings a table depicting the several instruments and the songs in which they were used. Being very interested in sounds that i usually associate with asia (in a traditional or non traditional context [and by the way, does the concept "shamisen rockabilly" brings anything to your mind? got a weird dream last night with such kind of band...]), i found this record very interesting, associating the sounds in a electro atmosphere (more as a suport, felt in the sampling technic and beat) without loosing their nature. (ouh yes, the disc is issued by Quatermass but the link they provide in the booklet (http://www.quatermass.net) takes one to Sub Rosa were the disc is not listed...) greets, Ricardo Reis "Non Serviam" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer Subject: Review: Fushitsusha - Origin's Hesitation Date: 17 Dec 2001 11:15:22 -0500 Artist: Fushitsusha Title: Origin's Hesitation Label: PSF Catalog #: PSFD 8010 Release Date: November 25, 2001 By my reckoning, "Origin's Hesitation" is the fifteenth Fushitsusha album released, and the eleventh in the past seven years. Many (but not all) of these albums have been stylistically very similar to each other (not to mention indistinguishable in terms of packaging). The notable exception to date being "Allegorical Misunderstanding" (Avant, 1993). Without a shred of marketing research analysis to substantiate my wild hypotheses, I suspect that the power trio called Fushitsusha was the most inviting or accessible or at least commercially successful of the various ensembles, which feature Keiji Haino as the frontman. The plentiful releases by Fushitsusha on Japanese, European, and North American labels, both independent and major, capitalized on this popularity, to the exclusion of the various other projects in which Haino was involved. Haino himself has discussed the necessity of this in various interviews. So we come to number fifteen. The current Fushitsusha release, Origin's Hesitation, is the most drastic departure from the Fushitsusha norm to date. Most noticeably, the power trio is (i) no longer a trio and (ii) no longer powerful. There is no guitar whatsoever. The longtime Fushitsusha member, Yasushi Ozawa, plays bass on some tracks, but even when he does it is a very muted bass. (To be perfectly honest, I have yet to listen to this album on a superior sound system, so my missing the bass may be exaggerated.) For the most part, this disc features Haino on drum kit and voice. A drum kit and voice (even Haino's voice) are not able to match the deafening intensity of Haino's electric guitar on previous Fushitsusha releases. The sound is sparse and absent of melody; even Ozawa's bass is at best erratic. This disc is most similar to the second, percussion cd released as "Abandon all words at a stroke, so that prayer can come spilling out" (Alien 8 Recordings, 2001), which one might note is a Haino solo release. The last track of "Origin's Hesitation" is somewhat like Haino's other voice and percussion album "Tenshi no Gijinka" (Tzadik, 1995) because "Tenshi no Gijinka" was a very contemplative and moody album. Several of the tracks contains obvious multi-layering (at least triple layering) of Haino's voice. My suspicion is that this record will receive a great panning. Or, perhaps, only a minor panning as the audience interested in Fushitsusha has (it appears) dwindled over the past several years. Those characteristics that defined Fushitsusha as Fushitsusha are almost entirely absent. Presumably, Haino would disagree or he wouldn't have called it a Fushitsusha album. There may be some common thread between this album and the denser Fushitsusha efforts, but, if that link exists, it is a tenuous and subtle one at best, difficult to recognize with the ear alone. On the other hand, one might want to cheer on this new development in Fushitsusha. Haino is, after all, the captain of his own ship. It is not as if this new direction is anything but Haino exploring new territory. Perhaps, this release signals a renewed intent to focus on Haino's ensembles outside the rock idiom. That would be a welcome change. There are numerous recent performances traveling along the bootleg circuit that are simply staggering, showing sides of Haino not documented in any official releases. Shows in the late nineties with Ayuo Takahashi (who has released solo albums on Tzadik and PSF) really stand out. Or, shows with koto (Michiyo Yagi, solo cd on Tzadik) or with noh flute (Isso Yukihiro), where Haino creates a kind of new folk music, much as he has done with the hurdy gurdy, are begging to be given the careful recording and mastering attention due an official release. I suppose we will have to wait and see. Right now, we are left with "Origin's Hesitation", which, it must be clear now after having read this review, I can make neither heads nor tails of. David K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Revue des Fossiles" Subject: Re: Review: Fushitsusha - Origin's Hesitation Date: 17 Dec 2001 13:06:56 -0800 "origin's hesitation" is a return to form for fushitsusha - the guitar trio format probably being on overdocumented deviation. if tamio shiraishi or yuji takahashi were on this album i'd almost be under the impression that keiji haino had decided to go "retro." thanks for the review. - rdf. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams Subject: Re: Sonny Sharrock/Last Exit Date: 17 Dec 2001 13:13:51 -0500 A bit more on Sharrock/Exit; The Much-maligned "Paradise" was on Atco. It was produced by Ilhan Mimaroglu(!), engineered by Phil Ramone(!), and is indeed populated by Fuzak-hack studio musicians....though 1953 Blue Boogie Children and Peaceful come off fairly well. Hey, the front cover pic of Linda is gorgeous, even though the music aint. ;-) Interestingly, the live band Sonny worked with at the time featured David Gross, and Steve Jordan(!). After Paradise, Atlantic let its option lapse, and paid Sonny to sit home and NOT record The original poster seemed to like the Marzette LP, so should probably check out Don Cherry's Eternal Rhythm, Byard Lancasters "Its Not Up To Us, and of course "Black Woman". Someday someone will release the tapes of the 68 Berlin Jazz Fest which feature Sonny in a variety of different settings, including a no-holds-barred duet with Sunny Murray. (wishful thinking, I know) There have been reissues of most of the Herbie Mann discs Sonny played on, "Stone Flute", "Live at The Whisky", and Concerto Grosso are all worth a listen. The first Exit LP, as good as it is, is a bit of a fraud. It's a live album, but it was razor edited, and in at least one case, they overdubbed different parts of the concert onto each other to create what you hear on the record. Most Exit performances consisted of very long Improvisations, after the tours, they would listen back and slice the improvs into "Songs" , The titles being a source for much amusement, (Believe me when I say You dont want to know what Needles=Balls really means) As Steve pointed out, Cassette Recordings 87, is a great disc, mostly for the uninterrupted tour de force "Line Of Fire" from the North Sea Jazz Fest. I really like Iron Path, but it has nothing to do with the live Exit. I hear it as more of a laswell disc. According to Sonny, they originally attempted to do a live-in -the-studio band recording, which was abandoned, then Iron Path was built up as a typical Laswell Studio disc.......And dont let anyone tell you that "Detonator" isn't heavy! that, and the fuzz and reverb drowned Laswell/Brotzman duet from Iron Path frequently rattle the walls at my house. I'm particulaly fond of the early Enemy releases ;-) just stay away from "Live in NY" , IMO its worse than Paradise, just a live tape from the knits archives, most Sharrock boots are better. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned F.Robert Lloyd's "Think About Brooklyn" an uneven disc that has some really nice rock/melodic work from Sonny, and forshadows the direction he was going in when he passed. It was Chuck Eddy who made the "greatest heavy Metal album" comment, though Christgau has made similar comparisons. Lester Bangs did write a piece for Musician(!) around 1980 that drew lines from free-jazz to punk/noise rock - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben Axelrad" Subject: laswell (was: Sonny Sharrock/CIMP) Date: 17 Dec 2001 15:29:09 -0600 In a blurb on Angels of Light in this week's Chicago Reader it says that "Gira was notoriously dissatisfied with the band's Bill Laswell-produced major label debut, The Burning World, in '89." Is there a longer story behind this? Anyone have more information? As far as CIMPs go, I kind of like the immediacy of most recordings, and I've noticed only one with really bad sound quality (Ethnic Heritage Ensemble). Also I like it that the artists write something in every release. The cover art leaves much to be desired though. I really like Frode Gjerstad, Through the Woods -- This is my favorite on the label. Bobby Bradford is really the dominant voice here. (Any comments on the new Emanem disc?) Odean Pope/Dave Burrell, Changes & Chances -- Sort of like the Burrell/Murray duo, but not as wild. Joe McPhee's Bluette (title?, #199) -- Nice versions of "People Get Ready" and a remake of "Astral Spirits" from _Oleo & A Future Retrospective_ Trio X (McPhee), Watermelon Suite -- Buy this if only for the beautiful "Solero (to Glenn Spearman)." Phil Haynes - Herb Robertson Quintet, Brooklyn-Berlin -- Enjoyable disc, the last track is amazing. Ahmed Abdullah's Diaspora -- This one's kind of light, but the band is clearly enjoying itself, and Abdullah's liner notes are very touching. I picked it up to hear Masuuja in a non-Threadgill context. >From: "Steve Smith" >Reply-To: >To: "'Ryan Novak'" , >Subject: RE: Sonny Sharrock/CIMP >Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 17:41:17 -0500 > >Because Laswell just goes to an extreme with the soft-focus, dubby, >sample-laden production, IMO. It's about as fiery as a 10-watt lightbulb, >which seems to me to be a misrepresentation of the band and its blow-out >live performances. You could view it as an ambient remix, almost. > >BUT if you really like the band and you've got all the other releases, you >might find something to like about 'Iron Path.' I certainly haven't ditched >my copy - I just view it as a decent Laswell disc with fabulous sidemen >deployed in understated ways, much like any number of other Laswell >releases. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: laswell (was: Sonny Sharrock/CIMP) Date: 17 Dec 2001 17:18:35 -0500 At 03:29 PM 12/17/01 -0600, Ben Axelrad wrote: >In a blurb on Angels of Light in this week's Chicago Reader it says that >"Gira was notoriously dissatisfied with the band's Bill Laswell-produced >major label debut, The Burning World, in '89." Is there a longer story >behind this? Anyone have more information? A 1999 article by Jay Babcock from the LA Weekly says 'Gira never enjoyed the level of success that direct Swans descendants like Ministry and Nine Inch Nails achieved in the 90s. Gira lost some of his proto-industrial following when the opera-trained vocalist Jarboe joined the band in the mid-'80s, ushering in melody, more complex arrangements and a (gasp!) female voice, and 1989's lush The Burning World, made with producer Bill Laswell and his Material ring of world-folk musicians for the MCA imprint Uni Records, further alienated O.G. Swans fans and failed to reach many new ones. Gira and MCA separated acrimoniously...' And by Greg Kot from the Chicago Tribune in 1997: 'Swans flirted with wider acceptance of their own after the release of their acknowledged masterpiece, the 1987 double-album "Children of God," a work that evokes both medieval beauty and horror with its stately, acoustic-laden textures. But immediately after that the group was pressured into recording more radio-friendly music: a dance beat was imposed on a cover version of Joy Division's "Love Will Tear Us Apart" that Gira says was "diametrically opposed" to his vision of the song as a somber, "Little Drummer Boy"-style hymn, and a producer (Bill Laswell) was brought in to help tailor the band's sole major label album, 1989's "The Burning World," which Gira now deems a "disaster." Then the optimism of a new deal with respected indie Rough Trade was shattered when the label went bankrupt....' Slow day at work... -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeton Ademaj" Subject: Alb. Party/ Rock gig Date: 17 Dec 2001 19:12:52 -0500 Hi Everybody, I hope u r all happy, safe n snugg. please pardon my brief 2-gig spam: 1st: this new Albanian Shindig being run as an alternative to the usual techno-folk, with a much more eclectic playlist, live percussionists along with dj's, a more layed back vibe and....... Me! I'll be performing on amplified Qifteli/toy synth-sampler/guitar and sequencing, not to mention some singing n ranting here n there. I asked the organizers if they are aware that my music is out to wayy out & my writing/singing has again been exploring politics and my male-to-male sex life in addition to my Albanian heritage, and they were encouraging and supportive. This for an outfit named after a muslim holy day! They also know how to throw an intelligent, fun party... Monday, December 24th - 9pm-til? at FLAMINGO (219 2nd avenue, bet. 13th & 14th, NY NY) $10 list, $15 dr - 4 list email fullname to info@buyrum.net b4 6pm 12/24 The online flyer can be found at: http://www.buyrum.net/ Also, I have a great, great band with legendary jazzman Daniel Carter on winds, a sweet young wackjob named Dustin Garlitz on tenor sax and a nice young super-monster named Mike Pride on drums, reeds, voice, toys and whatever he feels like that day. Along with me on qifteli, skronk guitar, toy samplers etc., we are called SMILE. Our band name is both a nice verb and a cybernetic acronym invented by Timothy Leary (see his book INFO-PSYCHOLOGY). We play free, and we've managed to squeeze in some of my singing and poetry without locking into standard sound-forms. I intend SMILE to be a comfort space for whatever the group feels in a given moment, and I bring my love of Hendrix, Sabbath, Coltrane, Dance Music, Folk 'n' Canonical (Albanian-/Appalachian-/"'"'World-'"'"/ Future-,etc), Hip-Hop and my imagination. We'll be joined by intrepid bassist-extraordinaire Jean-Guerly, who'll be floating us all in his oceanic electro-mixin' board fat bottomed sound. SMILE Saturday, December 29th 9pm $8.00 KnitActive Soundstage Knitting Factory 74 Leonard Street (5 blox south of canal, bet Broadway n Church) 212 219 3006 http://www.knittingfactory.com Please check the Village Voice Listings section when it hits newstands dec. 25th. Thanks for reading, Hope to say hi! to some of you soon, and all of you eventually... Peace Jeton 'Tony' Ademaj _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fastian@aol.com Subject: Re: Open, Coma Date: 17 Dec 2001 19:30:02 EST ctm@sonic.net (Craig Matsumoto) writes: << Just got Tim Berne's "Open, Coma" in the mail yesterday - woo hoo! Haven't been able to listen to the whole thing yet, unfortunately, but the first track, the title track, is awesome: tight ensemble passages, well-meshed open-improv passages, great sound fidelity (warning: i have no ear for sound fidelity and may be wrong on this last part). >> I would say its great sound quality especially for a Screwgun release. "Open, Coma" is a fine tune, the only new one on the cd. Certain passages sound reminiscent of other tunes, but its hard to pin down. There's also "Eye Contact" from the Memory Select" cd, one of my favorite Bloodcount tunes. The 2nd cd has "The Legend of p-1" from "Pace Yourself" and "Impacted Wisdom" from "Nice View" They really tear it up on this last tune. I defy anyone to listen to this one tune at anything other than full blast. The Copenhagen Art Ensemble sound really good and showcase many fine talents, esp. Peter Fuglsang-bass clarinet, Thomas Clausen-piano, fender rhodes, and Mads Hyhne-trombone. Tim Berne really needs a trombone player on all his cds, its great for a punchy low end. Needless to say, any fan of Tim Berne needs to grab this sucker immediately. Cheers, John Threadgould np "Blue Boye"- Julius Hemphill - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stinkipipi@aol.com Subject: Re: laswell (was: Sonny Sharrock/CIMP) Date: 17 Dec 2001 19:48:58 EST --part1_176.eaefc9.294fec7a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >In a blurb on Angels of Light in this week's Chicago Reader it says that > >"Gira was notoriously dissatisfied with the band's Bill Laswell-produced > >major label debut, The Burning World, in '89." Is there a longer story > >behind this? Anyone have more information? > i think you'll find a few of laswell's 'producer for hire' albums have left bad tastes in the bands mouths. white zombie comes to mind, as well as mick jagger if i recall correctly. dave http://www.mickharris.net http://www.eraldobernocchi.net --part1_176.eaefc9.294fec7a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>In a blurb on Angels of Light in this week's Chicago Reader it says that
>"Gira was notoriously dissatisfied with the band's Bill Laswell-produced
>major label debut, The Burning World, in '89."  Is there a longer story
>behind this?  Anyone have more information?

i think you'll find a few of laswell's 'producer for hire' albums have left bad tastes in the bands mouths. white zombie comes to mind, as well as mick jagger if i recall correctly.

dave
http://www.mickharris.net
http://www.eraldobernocchi.net --part1_176.eaefc9.294fec7a_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mads Ruby" Subject: Re: laswell (was: Sonny Sharrock/CIMP) Date: 18 Dec 2001 02:08:50 +0100 Ben Axelrad wrote: | In a blurb on Angels of Light in this week's Chicago Reader it says = that=20 | "Gira was notoriously dissatisfied with the band's Bill = Laswell-produced=20 | major label debut, The Burning World, in '89." Is there a longer = story=20 | behind this? Anyone have more information? |=20 I recall reading an interview where Gira more or less said that Laswell = sneaked in and changed the mix against the band=B4s wishes. I think that = interview is on the Swans website http://www.swans.pair.com/.=20 The list of guest musicians on that album is pretty impressive: Laswell, = Fred Frith, Shankar, Mark Feldman, Trilok Gurtu...=20 Actually The Burning World is a great album, if you=B4re able to ignore = the tame sound. The songs were great, but sounded much better on the = "Anonymous Bodies In An Empty Room" live album Anybody know what Norman Westberg is doing these days? Mads - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: New Music for kotos in RealAudio Date: 17 Dec 2001 22:14:09 -0600 Hi y'all, This week on Mappings , you'll hear contemporary music for koto by John Cage, Elizabeth =46alconer, Shoko Higake, Toshio Hosokawa, Brett Larner, Miya Masaoka, Ryuko Mizutani, and Tadao Sawai. The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0600 GMT) and will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program, featuring guitar music by Acoustic Guitar Trio (Alex Cline, Jim McAuley, Rod Poole), Arthur Bull & Daniel He=EFkalo, Loren Mazzacane Connors, Mario Davidovsky, Nick Didkofsky, Judy Dunaway, David First, =46red Frith, Phil Kline, Ren=E9 Lussier, Carolyn Master, Steve Reich, Terry Riley, Roger Smith, and Davey Williams is still available in the Mappings archive , where you can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998. Hope you tune in to the program. Bests, Herb - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "patbor" Subject: Recoms for... Date: 18 Dec 2001 03:05:01 -0500 Hi, I'd ask recommendations for: - Frank London (Hasidic New Wave) "From the belly of Abraham" Knit - Cuong Vu "Come, play with me" Knit - Mono "Under the pipal tree" Tzadik, New Japan Thak You PatB - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Fwd: Recoms for... Date: 18 Dec 2001 09:32:54 +0100 (CET) Hi Pat and everyone, > > - Mono "Under the pipal tree" Tzadik, New Japan I listened to it just a week ago or so and didn't like it. I think I commented on this before. I heard a clear Sonic Youth-guitar sound influence in Mono as well as kind of a post-rocky vein in their music. I also made reference to Mogwai as a possible orientative name to describe their music. Mono are supposed to be intense but I just found them boring and not so original. Anyway, if you are looking for a straightforward instrumental album you might enjoy it. I'm not sure if this is too helpful... Best, Efrén del Valle _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nirav Soni" Subject: Re: Recoms for... Date: 18 Dec 2001 04:12:19 -0500 > - Mono "Under the pipal tree" Tzadik, New Japan One word: Mogwai. They are, however, the most *gorgeous* band I've ever had the pleasure of seeing. Really. I totally recommend seeing them live. Absolutely beautiful. I was entranced with the bassist's shoes. Aren't they the *cutest*?! Do I recall someone dissing Black Dice on this list? Man...last night at the Knit was *massive*...no songs, just huge clouds of sound and movement. Nirav -- AIM: Icefactory37 NP- DJ Scud/Rich Kid- Murder Sound (trying very hard to stay awake) "Duration is to the consciousness as light is to the eye" - Bill Viola - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Fwd: Re: Recoms for... Date: 18 Dec 2001 10:20:25 +0100 (CET) Hi, > > > > > One word: Mogwai. > > > > They are, however, the most *gorgeous* band I've > > ever had the pleasure of > > seeing. Really. I totally recommend seeing them > > live. Absolutely beautiful. That goes to show there are as many opinions as people on this planet. I saw them live three or four months ago and couldn't stand the whole concert. I found them as predictable as a rock band can be. Just an opinion (from a guy on this planet) Best, Efrén del Valle _______________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Messenger > Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. > http://messenger.yahoo.es > _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nirav Soni" Subject: Re: Re: Recoms for... Date: 18 Dec 2001 05:57:01 -0500 > That goes to show there are as many opinions as > people on this planet. I saw them live three or four > months ago and couldn't stand the whole concert. I > found them as predictable as a rock band can be. Oh no...this had nothing to do with the music. All of the members of the band are very, very attractive. It was like watching moving sculptures, with music too! Nirav -- AIM: Icefactory37 "Duration is to the consciousness as light is to the eye" - Bill Viola - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kim, Pei-Yi" Subject: -- Kenny Wollesen -- Date: 18 Dec 2001 11:04:23 -0500 Hello Folks, I'm listening to the Masada Live 2001 discs right now and was wondering if anyone out there knows of upcoming gigs for Kenny Wollesen, whose awesome energy and positive spirit have me yearning for more of his live vibe. I know that for NYE he's part of the Masada events, but if y'all can shed some light on where I may look up his itineray (especially for now til NYE) that would be spetacular. Happy Holidays and Much Grace, Pei-Yi np: Surrender to the Air - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Recoms for... Date: 18 Dec 2001 11:18:19 -0600 (CST) On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Nirav Soni wrote: > "Duration is to the consciousness as light is to the eye" - Bill Viola Ah, I like this! (Especially since I went on a binge of watching Bill Viola laserdiscs last night.) I wonder what Morton Feldman's response would have been... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Revue des Fossiles" Subject: Re: Recoms for... Date: 18 Dec 2001 09:45:04 -0800 > > "Duration is to the consciousness as light is to the eye" - Bill Viola > >Ah, I like this! (Especially since I went on a binge of watching Bill >Viola laserdiscs last night.) I wonder what Morton Feldman's response >would have been... um, "music is to the consciouness as rug patterns are to the eye?" listening to feldman's music without cracking a smile now and then is like missing out on the intended irony in nietzsche and kierkegaard. - rdf. np. guilty connector - first noise attack. (msbr/utsu tapes) kohei "fast" nakagama in all his dynamic fury. lovely holiday sounds recommended for any family gathering. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mwisckol@ocregister.com Subject: Vietnam and China: audioturism [NZC] Date: 18 Dec 2001 11:45:34 -0800 In the US, Quatermass and Subrosa, including this title, are distributed by and can be ordered from www.dutch-east.com Most titles have considerable descriptions at DE's website. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: alastair@pretentious.co.uk Subject: RE: Sonny Sharrock Date: 17 Dec 2001 16:54:54 +0000 (GMT) --2834897.1008608094637.JavaMail.root@www-a24 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve Smith wrote >Sharrock's debut disc, 'Black Woman,' has been reissued by East West in >Japan and by Collectables (I think) in the U.S. It's wild and shambolic an= d >frenzied and short. His then-wife Linda is featured throughout, and her >quasi-operatic warbles and Yokoesque shrieks may come as a bit of an >acquired taste, but the disc features some pretty amazing drumming from >Milford Graves and the debut, I think, of Sharrock's lovely tune =93Blind >Willie.=93 There's a vinyl copy of this in the Covent Garden branch of Rough Trade goi= ng for (I think) =A313.99. It's on 4 Men With Beards records, so I dunno wh= y I didn't pick it up when I saw it yesterday... If you're not in London they might be able to get it for you at www.roughtr= ade.com . No link with said shop except for it taking a large proportion of= my disposable income. Alastair ---------- Get a fun email address at http://another.com COOL: Personalise a t-shirt with your name/email/slogan=20 from 9.99 pounds. CLICK HERE http://another-shop.com --2834897.1008608094637.JavaMail.root@www-a24-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeton Ademaj" Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #646 Date: 18 Dec 2001 15:24:16 -0500 Hey I guess I'd just like to comment about something pissing me off. Early Sunday morning I wrote a reaction to the Sharrock thread, combined with a review of Baily/Zorn/Baron/Workman from the night before (including juicy bits of pulp) and i addressed Steve Smith's month-old query regarding Zorn and racial exploitation from my own personal experience. After it was omitted w/o explanation, I wrote to the z-list owner asking for explanation, with no response. So, to everyone, beware what u write here, Big WannaBe is watching. I'll prolly re-write it and post it to the Avant list peace _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Sonny Sharrock/CIMP Date: 17 Dec 2001 11:09:55 -0500 Maybe I just hoped that it was rare. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Lang Thompson >Avoid at all costs (like you'd even find a copy) 'Bird of Paradise,' This is rare? (Title is just "Paradise.") I picked up a used copy a few years ago for two or three bucks and think I've seen more around. You're right about it being bad, though: I listed to the first side once and couldn't do any more.... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #646 Date: 18 Dec 2001 15:33:50 -0600 (CST) As I understand it, the list is not moderated, and messages pass through to the list without Mike's interaction. Also, if I recall correctly, Mike is out of town and off-line, so he probably has not gotten your query yet, and therefore not answered. Are you absolutely positive that you addressed the email correctly and did not inadvertently delete it from your mailbox before reading it? Can you show that the message actually got to xmission.com and is not stuck at an intermediate site somewhere? Might there have been a software glitch? Human error happens, and Occam's razor would suggest it as a more probable explanation than the paranoid theory below. (As an admin of several lists, I've had years of complaints like this, despite never having deleted a message from a user. So my antennae go up when others are accused of it.) Some sort of proof would be nice, or an apology to our hard-working list manager. On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Jeton Ademaj wrote: > Hey > > I guess I'd just like to comment about something pissing me off. Early > Sunday morning I wrote a reaction to the Sharrock thread, combined with a > review of Baily/Zorn/Baron/Workman from the night before (including juicy > bits of pulp) and i addressed Steve Smith's month-old query regarding Zorn > and racial exploitation from my own personal experience. > > After it was omitted w/o explanation, I wrote to the z-list owner asking for > explanation, with no response. > > So, to everyone, beware what u write here, Big WannaBe is watching. > > I'll prolly re-write it and post it to the Avant list > > peace > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #646 Date: 18 Dec 2001 15:55:59 -0500 At 15:24 18/12/01 -0500, Jeton Ademaj wrote: >So, to everyone, beware what u write here, Big WannaBe is watching. Not so. Mike Rizzi the list moderator is on the road momentarily, or so I read here a few days ago. His job doesn't consist of censoring people, many thanks to him in this regard by the way. Do resend your message but slice it up in smaller chunks, as too large messages are forwarded to the moderator for approval. This is mainly, as I understand it, to prevent that people send attachments to the list by mistake, that would end up filling our attachment folders / digests, with viruses / gibberish. This is probably what happened? Or your message was eaten by carnivore, or then again echelon. Benjamin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #646 Date: 18 Dec 2001 12:49:16 -0800 >>>So, to everyone, beware what u write here, Big WannaBe is watching.<<< There will be some technical explanation, not a censorious one. Rizzi does a great job, and his devotion to quality is what keeps this list at a high level compared to most. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #646 Date: 18 Dec 2001 21:47:56 +0100 HI, > > Are you absolutely positive that you addressed the email correctly and > did not inadvertently delete it from your mailbox before reading it? > Can you show that the message actually got to xmission.com and is not > stuck at an intermediate site somewhere? Might there have been a > software glitch? As Joseph says, this has happened to me several times and it was always my fault. I've sent many e-mails with inappropiate formats or even with attachments without even noticing. Some days after I usually receive Mike's "complaint" in that regard and the message finally gets to the list. If I'm not the only one to make these mistakes, Mike must sick and tired of us. Best, Efrén _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeton Ademaj" Subject: provisional apologies Date: 18 Dec 2001 16:02:09 -0500 Joseph has a point here. I may have simply assumed incorrectly, but frankly I've learned to examine circumstances. What I posted before and after was innocous, and posted without problem. But the post in question *could be seen as* somewhat controversial, the degree to which you cannot know w/o having seen it. Whereas YOU may have never censored anyone, I have been on many sites, lists and forums where I've been censored, at times forthrightly and at others surreptitiously. Censorship IS a reality in many online settings, so the invocation of Occam's Razor for the purpose of declaring me paranoid is really over-reaching. Your larger point regarding the possible fate of my missive is well taken, however. Perhaps we'll even get to see it someday as I seem to now recall some previous posts were lost in a queue limbo. time will tell. i'll try rewriting and posting it again, and see if that works >As I understand it, the list is not moderated, and messages pass through >to the list without Mike's interaction. Also, if I recall correctly, >Mike is out of town and off-line, so he probably has not gotten your >query yet, and therefore not answered. > >Are you absolutely positive that you addressed the email correctly and >did not inadvertently delete it from your mailbox before reading it? >Can you show that the message actually got to xmission.com and is not >stuck at an intermediate site somewhere? Might there have been a >software glitch? > >Human error happens, and Occam's razor would suggest it as a more >probable explanation than the paranoid theory below. > >(As an admin of several lists, I've had years of complaints like this, >despite never having deleted a message from a user. So my antennae go up >when others are accused of it.) > >Some sort of proof would be nice, or an apology to our hard-working >list manager. > >On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Jeton Ademaj wrote: > > > Hey > > > > I guess I'd just like to comment about something pissing me off. Early > > Sunday morning I wrote a reaction to the Sharrock thread, combined with >a > > review of Baily/Zorn/Baron/Workman from the night before (including >juicy > > bits of pulp) and i addressed Steve Smith's month-old query regarding >Zorn > > and racial exploitation from my own personal experience. > > > > After it was omitted w/o explanation, I wrote to the z-list owner asking >for > > explanation, with no response. > > > > So, to everyone, beware what u write here, Big WannaBe is watching. > > > > I'll prolly re-write it and post it to the Avant list > > > > peace > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > > > > - > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Westergaard" Subject: RE: Zorn List Digest V3 #646 Date: 18 Dec 2001 15:53:59 -0500 >Do resend your message but slice >it up in smaller chunks, as too large messages are forwarded to the >moderator for approval. This is mainly, as I understand it, to prevent that >people send attachments to the list by mistake, that would end up filling >our attachment folders / digests, with viruses / gibberish. I'm still kind of new to these lists, and I got a courteous message from Mike a while back on this same subject. He simply asked me to clip portions of posted messages rather than replying and including the whole message or thread. >his devotion to quality is what keeps >this list at a high level compared to most What's the deal? on other lists I've looked at, there's always some asshole constantly posting stuff that pisses everyone else off. Could the Zornlisters be the music consuming "elite" as well as the paragon of open-mindedness and manners? Best holiday wishes to you all. sean - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: avant-elitism. Date: 18 Dec 2001 16:08:03 EST --part1_76.146e9125.29510a33_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/18/01 3:05:28 PM Central Standard Time, seawes@allmusic.com writes: > What's the deal? on other lists I've looked at, there's always some asshole > constantly posting stuff that pisses everyone else off. Could the > Zornlisters be the music consuming "elite" as well as the paragon of > open-mindedness and manners? i'm new to the list. i think it's really amusing and hip that everyone on this list uses big words and talks about postmodernism a lot. but i'm not really sure that elitists can also be mannerful. elitists can usually be somewhat openminded, although they usually, after careful intellectual appraisal of the situation, decide that they're right. i'm proud to call myself one of them. :) kate peterson --part1_76.146e9125.29510a33_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/18/01 3:05:28 PM Central Standard Time, seawes@allmusic.com writes:


What's the deal? on other lists I've looked at, there's always some asshole
constantly posting stuff that pisses everyone else off.  Could the
Zornlisters be the music consuming "elite" as well as the paragon of
open-mindedness and manners?



i'm new to the list.  i think it's really amusing and hip that everyone on this list uses big words and talks about postmodernism a lot.  but i'm not really sure that elitists can also be mannerful.  elitists can usually be somewhat openminded, although they usually, after careful intellectual appraisal of the situation, decide that they're right. 

i'm proud to call myself one of them.  :)

kate peterson



 --part1_76.146e9125.29510a33_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris Selvig" Subject: Norman Westberg Date: 18 Dec 2001 13:42:31 -0800 Mr. Westberg is playing guitar in the Heroine Sheiks these days, and looking rather grumpy while he does it. -Selvig _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Raoul Rabut" Subject: 1 LP of Derek Bailey and 2 LP's of Anthony Braxton on ebay Date: 18 Dec 2001 23:04:50 +0100 Sorry for this intrusion, but here you have some excellent music by great free jazz musicians: Derek Bailey - "Lot 74. Solo improvisation" LP on the Incus label (INCUS 12) from 1974 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1496595537 Anthony Braxton w/ Richard Teitelbaum double LP on Hat Art from 1983. Electronic alterations of Braxton's saxophone by Teitelbaum's devices. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1496597898 Anthony Braxton - "Solo London 1988" LP on the Impetus label http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1496599035 Thanks for your attention! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: avant-elitism. Date: 19 Dec 2001 14:14:20 -0800 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3091616060_2304252_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit i'm new to the list. i think it's really amusing and hip that everyone on this list uses big words and talks about postmodernism a lot. but i'm not really sure that elitists can also be mannerful. elitists can usually be somewhat openminded, although they usually, after careful intellectual appraisal of the situation, decide that they're right. i'm proud to call myself one of them. :) kate peterson practical guide to terms: Postmodern = wears record collection & too much TV watching on sleeve elite= guys who play music hardly anyone wants to hear for a lot of guys who can't get dates. The Simpson's Comicbookstoreman is the poster child for this sort of thing. intellectualism= trotting out a bunch of stuff fr books and lectures to justify the above-defined behavior. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com --MS_Mac_OE_3091616060_2304252_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: avant-elitism.


i'm new to the list.  i think it's really amusing and hip that everyon= e on this list uses big words and talks about postmodernism a lot.  but= i'm not really sure that elitists can also be mannerful.  elitists can= usually be somewhat openminded, although they usually, after careful intell= ectual appraisal of the situation, decide that they're right.  

i'm proud to call myself one of them.  :)

kate peterson




practical guide to terms:
Postmodern =3D wears record collection & too much TV watching on sleeve elite=3D guys who play music hardly anyone wants to hear for a lot of guys wh= o can't get dates.  The Simpson's Comicbookstoreman is the poster child= for this sort of thing.
intellectualism=3D trotting out a bunch of stuff fr books and lectures to jus= tify the above-defined behavior.

skip heller
http://www.skipheller.com

--MS_Mac_OE_3091616060_2304252_MIME_Part-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: avant-elitism. Date: 18 Dec 2001 14:27:26 -0800 On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:08:03 EST UFOrbK8@aol.com wrote: > > i'm new to the list. i think it's really amusing and hip that everyone on > this list uses big words and talks about postmodernism a lot. but i'm not But there are exceptions. Some people think that "big words" should be reserved to serious thinking (and not sprinkled in the most casual and mundane situation, like exhibiting our new clothes at any occasion). But hipness (and not meaning) seems to be what are interested in... > really sure that elitists can also be mannerful. elitists can usually be > somewhat openminded, although they usually, after careful intellectual > appraisal of the situation, decide that they're right. > > i'm proud to call myself one of them. :) An intellectual? What have you done for that? Patrice (who is not one). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: Re: avant-elitism. Date: 18 Dec 2001 18:39:13 EST --part1_d3.3a36522.29512da1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/18/01 4:11:55 PM Central Standard Time, velaires@earthlink.net writes: > practical guide to terms: > Postmodern = wears record collection & too much TV watching on sleeve > elite= guys who play music hardly anyone wants to hear for a lot of guys > who can't get dates. The Simpson's Comicbookstoreman is the poster child > for this sort of thing. > intellectualism= trotting out a bunch of stuff fr books and lectures to > justify the above-defined behavior. heh... after 5 years in music conservatory as a composition and music technology major, it seems a little superfluous to give me a terms list, but thanks for the thought. :) as for being proud to call myself "one of them" - it was in reference to elitism. and it was a snide, self-affacing joke. kate peterson. --part1_d3.3a36522.29512da1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/18/01 4:11:55 PM Central Standard Time, velaires@earthlink.net writes:


practical guide to terms:
Postmodern = wears record collection & too much TV watching on sleeve
elite= guys who play music hardly anyone wants to hear for a lot of guys who can't get dates.  The Simpson's Comicbookstoreman is the poster child for this sort of thing.
intellectualism= trotting out a bunch of stuff fr books and lectures to justify the above-defined behavior.



heh...  after 5 years in music conservatory as a composition and music technology major, it seems a little superfluous to give me a terms list, but thanks for the thought.  :)

as for being proud to call myself "one of them" - it was in reference to elitism.  and it was a snide, self-affacing joke.

kate peterson.



 --part1_d3.3a36522.29512da1_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: malczewski@earthlink.net (Frank Malczewski) Subject: Re: Sonny Sharrock/Last Exit Date: 16 Dec 2001 09:50:43 -0700 Just to mention a few rarities (seems most of the rest of his recordings have been mentioned), there's also Last Exit's 'Headfirst Into The Flames', and his recordings for the Space Ghost Coast To Coast cartoon. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matt S" Subject: tony allen and strut (no direct zorn content) Date: 18 Dec 2001 19:21:35 -0500 I remember reading about Tony Allen here a long time ago .. can anyone make recommendations? what about strut records afro releases in general? I recently read a rave about their Nigeria 70 compilation.. comments, thoughts? _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" Subject: Re: avant-elitism. Date: 18 Dec 2001 16:46:51 -0800 And under what category do we find one who authors such a 'practical guide to terms?' - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "serge dautricourt" Subject: Brant/Varese/Villa-Lobos/Piazzolla Date: 18 Dec 2001 17:05:21 -0800 I went to see the san fransisco symphony play a concert of their "pan-american mavericks" series. My first time seeing a live symphony playing avant garde pieces, I was quite moved. The program was: henry Brant "Ice Fields"; Varese "Deserts"; piazolla "Tangazo"; Villa Lobos "Choros No. 10, rasgo o coracao" I was blown away by "ice field", which used over 100 musicians. in this 'spatial' composition he placed about different ensembles in different spots in Davies Hall, including the symphony with 2 pianos, 2 harps in front, a sort of swing-band-on-acid in the balcony, wind ensemble, bass drums to the side, etc, etc. Brant himself (88 yrs old! quite a character during a preperformance talk) was improvising on the huge pipe organ, and MTT conducting all of it (except the jazz band, which was on its own.) Its hard to describe the music because it was always wildly unpredictable. It was often beautiful, humorous, and profound at the same time! I enjoyed every second of it. It was a real treat to see "Deserts" live. . . truly a haunting masterpiece. For those who don't already know, varese creates contrasting landscapes, using a two track tape (manipulated factory noise, I think) and a 20 piece ensemble. Check it out if you're into zorn's clasical compositions. The Villa Lobos was pretty crazy, using maybe 100 singers singing in an Indian dialect, and some coolpercussion. A majestic, yet anguished kind of feel. Piazolla was ok, but it paled compared to the others. Did anybody else go? ok, hope i didn't bore too many people. Serge Dautricourt _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "serge dautricourt" Subject: Love, Madness / Circle Date: 18 Dec 2001 17:27:32 -0800 I just got "Love, Madness and Mysticism." I like it a lot. like a lot of zorn, its so full of new ideas, its going to take me a while to aborbs them all. The musicians are incredible. What do other zorn listers think of this one? Circle - as in the 60's quartet with braxton, corea. Is the EMC 'Paris concerts' double cd worth the price tag? serge _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: avant-elitism. Date: 19 Dec 2001 17:47:19 -0800 > And under what category do we find one who authors such a > 'practical guide to terms?' > > > - > See "Comicbookman, only worse" skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: avant-elitism. Date: 19 Dec 2001 17:59:06 -0800 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3091629548_3114962_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/18/01 4:11:55 PM Central Standard Time, velaires@earthlink.net writes: practical guide to terms: Postmodern = wears record collection & too much TV watching on sleeve elite= guys who play music hardly anyone wants to hear for a lot of guys who can't get dates. The Simpson's Comicbookstoreman is the poster child for this sort of thing. intellectualism= trotting out a bunch of stuff fr books and lectures to justify the above-defined behavior. heh... after 5 years in music conservatory as a composition and music technology major, it seems a little superfluous to give me a terms list, but thanks for the thought. :) as for being proud to call myself "one of them" - it was in reference to elitism. and it was a snide, self-affacing joke. kate peterson. That little glossary of terms had more to do with the paragraph to which you were responding, but thank you for letting me know your credentials and that I am not to make any snide little jokes of my own the e-presence of someone with conservatory training in composition. Personally, I make a living (mostly) as a composer/arranger but my training (such as it was) mainly happened on the bandstand and in bars. I have less of a handle of music technology, unless you mean cats like Shocklee or Dr Dre. I would never call myself an intellectual, but my grammar is passable. I know -- to conservatory types -- I am probably the worst kind of trash (except that my sessions generally pay well and the checks never bounce). But I would never hurt anyone. Certainly I would never do something as horrible as to subject an audience to a six hour "phase composition". From your "heh" I can tell that you know more about music and audiences than I ever will. I -- in all my superfluousness -- bow to your greater wisdom. thank you -- skip heller --MS_Mac_OE_3091629548_3114962_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: avant-elitism.

In a message dated 12/18/01 4:11:55 PM Central S= tandard Time, velaires@earthlink.net writes:


practical guide to terms:
Postmodern =3D wears record collection & too much TV watching on sleeve elite=3D guys who play music hardly anyone wants to hear for a lot of guys wh= o can't get dates.  The Simpson's Comicbookstoreman is the poster child= for this sort of thing.
intellectualism=3D trotting out a bunch of= stuff fr books and lectures to justify the above-defined behavior.



heh...  after 5 years in music conservatory as a composition and music= technology major, it seems a little superfluous to give me a terms list, bu= t thanks for the thought.  :)

as for being proud to call myself "one of them" - it was in refer= ence to elitism.  and it was a snide, self-affacing joke.

kate peterson.





That little glossary of terms had more to do with the paragraph to which yo= u were responding, but thank you for letting me know your credentials and th= at I am not to make any snide little jokes of my own the e-presence of someo= ne with conservatory training in composition.

Personally, I make a living (mostly) as a composer/arranger but my training= (such as it was) mainly happened on the bandstand and in bars.  I have= less of a handle of music technology, unless you mean cats like Shocklee or= Dr Dre.  I would never call myself an intellectual, but my grammar is = passable.  I know -- to conservatory types -- I am probably the worst k= ind of trash (except that my sessions generally pay well and the checks neve= r bounce).  But I would never hurt anyone.  Certainly I would neve= r do something as horrible as to subject an audience to a six hour "pha= se composition".  From your "heh" I can tell that you kn= ow more about music and audiences than I ever will.  I -- in all my sup= erfluousness -- bow to your greater wisdom.

thank you --
skip heller --MS_Mac_OE_3091629548_3114962_MIME_Part-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Brant/Varese/Villa-Lobos/Piazzolla Date: 19 Dec 2001 18:04:46 -0800 > I went to see the san fransisco symphony play a concert of their > "pan-american mavericks" series. What if any Ives is in the upcoming program? I've been contemplating a run up to SF. I've gone insane distances to catch an Ives performance (whether or not it promised to be any good). You should've seen the night about two yrs back during the Stravinsky fest where they did HISTOIRE DU SOLDAT. MTT was really amazing, almost punk rock intensity. I felt like I was seeing the Replacments or X. It was that sweaty a performance. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Love, Madness / Circle Date: 19 Dec 2001 18:07:35 -0800 > I just got "Love, Madness and Mysticism." I like it a lot. like a lot of > zorn, its so full of new ideas, its going to take me a while to aborbs them > all. The musicians are incredible. What do other zorn listers think of > this one? > > Circle - as in the 60's quartet with braxton, corea. Is the EMC 'Paris > concerts' double cd worth the price tag? > > serge > Depends who you ask. I think it's some of Braxton's most successful work, but I like records where Chick is playing accoustic piano with a great rhythm section. I know some Braxton fans who think it's too straight. I don't agree, but I guess that's what makes it interesting when you have two musicians with largely different audiences in the same group. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= Subject: Re: Norman Westberg Date: 19 Dec 2001 06:27:12 +0000 (GMT) Chris Selvig wrote: >Mr. Westberg is playing guitar in the Heroine Sheiks >these days, Never heard of. >and looking rather grumpy while he does it. Oh, well THAT'S a surpise! Ha. Cheer up Norm! It's not the end of the world*, mate! * Although the way some SWANS hits you, you'd think it was... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: Re: avant-elitism. Date: 19 Dec 2001 02:21:15 EST In a message dated 12.18.01 20:57:00, velaires@earthlink.net writes: >That little glossary of terms had more to do with the paragraph to which >you >were responding, but thank you for letting me know your credentials and >that >I am not to make any snide little jokes of my own the e-presence of someone >with conservatory training in composition. um, ouch. it was a joke, actually. i was defacing my "conservatory training" as well, by noting its over pretentia. let's just lay it out flat; unless i'm directly talking about a piece, everything that comes out of my mouth is total bullshit... xxoo kate peterson. ----- nothing in moderation. (ernie kovacs) i love you, you pay my rent. (pet shop boys) k a t e p e t e r s o n composer / performer UFOrbK8@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: avant-elitism. Date: 19 Dec 2001 23:51:58 -0800 > > In a message dated 12.18.01 20:57:00, velaires@earthlink.net writes: > >> That little glossary of terms had more to do with the paragraph to which >> you >> were responding, but thank you for letting me know your credentials and >> that >> I am not to make any snide little jokes of my own the e-presence of someone >> with conservatory training in composition. > > um, ouch. it was a joke, actually. i was defacing my "conservatory > training" as well, by noting its over pretentia. let's just lay it out flat; > unless i'm directly talking about a piece, everything that comes out of my > mouth is total bullshit... Cool. I've had too many people with credentials tell me how much smarter they were than I am. Few of them actually make a living as composer, BTW. > > > just don't Get It :)> > > xxoo I thought there was another girl on the list. > nothing in moderation. > (ernie kovacs) I worked for a time as a Kovacs archivist. You might be best not quoting the author of a book like ZOOMAR. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: Re: avant-elitism. Date: 19 Dec 2001 02:51:52 EST In a message dated 12.19.01 02:49:34, velaires@earthlink.net writes: >Cool. I've had too many people with credentials tell me how much smarter >they were than I am. Few of them actually make a living as composer, BTW. now, now. those are the people i was MOCKING. >> >> >> boys >> just don't Get It :)> >> >> xxoo >I thought there was another girl on the list. i have no idea if there are other girls on the list. which brings me to my introductory statement... i study with john zorn's first studio teacher. whee!! which makes me the hippest girl in the world ... i didn't even know it until my first lesson but the irony was impossible since the debut mr. bungle album and the zorn piece spillane pretty much defined my allegiance to crazy music. kate peterson. > ----- nothing in moderation. (ernie kovacs) where there's a mission, there's a missionary. (jim altieri) k a t e p e t e r s o n composer / performer UFOrbK8@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Fwd: Re: avant-elitism. Date: 19 Dec 2001 09:50:51 +0100 (CET) HI, the irony was impossible > since the debut mr. bungle > album and the zorn piece spillane pretty much > defined my allegiance to crazy > music. > > kate peterson. It seems that we used the same door into this music. I think there are more girls on the list (fortunately :)). In any case, welcome. Best, Efrén del Valle _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: girls of zorn. Date: 19 Dec 2001 03:53:55 EST yes, but how many girls on this listserv know all the words to "girls of porn" by memory? hehehehehEHHEHeHehheheEHHEH!! thanks for the welcome. i feel assimilated now. kp ----- nothing in moderation. (ernie kovacs) where there's a mission, there's a missionary. (jim altieri) k a t e p e t e r s o n composer / performer UFOrbK8@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Those Top Lists Date: 19 Dec 2001 10:33:14 +0100 (CET) Hi, Christmas/Hannukah/whatever is approaching and I haven't seen any 2001 Top Lists yet. So, sit down and do your homework!:) I will. Books and films are also welcome, as far as I'm concerned (if it doesn't cause distress to anyone). All the best, Efrén del Valle _______________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Messenger > Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. > http://messenger.yahoo.es > _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ricardo Jorge" Subject: Re: Those Top Lists Date: 19 Dec 2001 09:49:05 +0000 Gore Slut - "girls + turtles" Otomo new jazz quintet - "Flutter" Arto Lindsay- "ecomixes" ... _________________________________________________________________ Converse com amigos on-line, experimente o MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com.br - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: Re: Circle Date: 19 Dec 2001 11:46:53 +0100 Circle - as in the 60's quartet with braxton, corea. Is the EMC 'Paris concerts' double cd worth the price tag? In Germany, this one is mid-priced (40 marks), that's why I tried it in the first place. It really is worth it, if you find it for a regular double-cd price as an import. After that first Circle album, I went out to spend big bucks (well, guilders actually) on a Double LP on Blue Note, with assorted sessions, called 'Chick Corea Circles In'. It is great, great music. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer Subject: Gira, SWANS, Burning World Date: 19 Dec 2001 06:07:36 -0500 >From: "Mads Ruby" >Actually The Burning World is a great album, if you=B4re able to ignore = >the tame sound. The songs were great, but sounded much better on the = >"Anonymous Bodies In An Empty Room" live album A second opinion: "Anonymous Bodies In An Empty Room" is really a very poor substitute for "The Burning World". "Anonymous Bodies In An Empty Room" is one of several live SWANS albums of dubious quality, some of them recorded on Walkmans by audience members. Moreover, only 3 of the 8 songs on "Anonymous Bodies In An Empty Room" are from "The Burning World". The others are from (what was at the time forthcoming) "White Light From the Mouth of Infinity" and "Blood Women Roses". Those 3 songs do not represent the best material on "The Burning World". My opinion is that "The Burning World" is a strong album with excellent music and lyrics, with a well-defined sound, (tame only by comparison to previous SWANS efforts). While some of the songs do become more bombastic (i.e. Let it Come Down) when rendered live, a much better source for hearing these songs live rather than (the long oop) "Anonymous Bodies In An Empty Room" are the live tapes sold for $10 at www.swans.pair.com. I have heard the 1989 shows in Tokyo and Lawrence, KS and can vouch that they contain 9 of the 10 songs on "The Burning World" There is no version of "Saved", I don't think they ever played "Saved" live. At least I have never found a live tape with it, nor did they play it on the couple of shows I saw during the '89 tour. Personally, I think they were too embarrassed by their first (and only?) MTV video of "Saved". As puzzling as it may be, these live tapes do have far superior sound to the "officially released bootleg" called "Anonymous Bodies In An Empty Room". David K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mads Ruby" Subject: Re: Gira, SWANS, Burning World Date: 19 Dec 2001 12:33:48 +0100 David Keffer wrote | A second opinion: | "Anonymous Bodies In An Empty Room" is really a very poor substitute = for=20 | "The Burning World". "Anonymous Bodies In An Empty Room" is one of | several live SWANS albums of dubious quality, some of them recorded on | Walkmans | by audience members. Moreover, only 3 of the 8 songs on "Anonymous = Bodies=20 | In An Empty Room" are from "The Burning World". The others are from | (what was at the time forthcoming) "White Light From the Mouth of = Infinity" | and "Blood Women Roses". Those 3 songs do not represent the best = material | on "The Burning World". =20 Aaarrrrgh. I got Anonymous bodies mixed up with a great live recording = from Roskilde Festival 1989 from that year, where SWANS do 8 of the 10 = tunes from The Burning World. In these versions they actually sound like = SWANS tunes. But I still think The Burning World has a totally tame = sound. However, I do like those audience souvenir albums: "Feel Good = Now" and "Public Castration Is A Good Idea" are real charmers , a | much better source for hearing these songs live rather than (the long = oop) | "Anonymous Bodies In An Empty Room" are the live tapes sold for $10=20 | at www.swans.pair.com. I have heard the 1989 shows in Tokyo and = Lawrence, KS | and can vouch that they contain 9 of the 10=20 You haven=B4t tried any of the earlier tapes around the period of "Cop", = "Filth" and "Greed" by any chance? I=B4m thinking about getting a ton of = those tapes, but was wondering about the quality of those tapes cheers Mads - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: Those Top Lists Date: 19 Dec 2001 06:43:08 -0500 More or less in order of acquisition, and all categories: Steven Feld - Rainforest Soundwalks Orjan Henriksson - as the side scene of reality melted... Michael Prime - Aquifers Keith Rowe - Harsh Nakamura & M - Do Bernhard G=FCnter - then, silence Jonathan Coleclough - Period Chas Smith - Nikkowolverine Rachid Taha - Made in Medina K=F6ner & Tietchens - Kontakte der J=FCnglinge John Oswald - Plunderphonics 69/96 James Coleman - Zuihitsu Rafael Toral - Violence of Discovery and Calm of Acceptance Lionel Marchetti - Portrait d'un glacier Rowe & Nakamura - Weather Sky mnortham - from within the solar cave Francisco L=F3pez - Buildings [new york] Adrian Moore - Traces Olivia Block - Mobius Fuse Kelley & Lescalleet - Forlorn Green Otomo Yoshihide - Anode Drumm & Wehowsky - Cases Books of the year: Claudio Magris - Danube (history/travel) Michael Connelly - Void Moon (superb robbery novel) Nicolas Bouvier - The Way of the World (travel from Istanbul to Kabul in the 1950s) Barry Miles - The Beat Hotel (Ginsburg, Burroughs et al in Paris in the= 1950s) Maurice G. Dantec - Les Racines du Mal (sci-fi) -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bruno Bissonnette" Subject: 2001 top 10 (and other stuff) Date: 19 Dec 2001 08:18:48 -0500 You know it's been a good year for music when six months into it, trying to compile this early, there's already ten or more releases that deserve to be up there. Exceptionnal stuff. Some of these may be from '99 or '00 as well as 2001, but since I've only recently gotten around to purchasing them, here they are anyway. So here we go: This year's top 10... (in no particular order, though that Fennesz disc is one of the best things I've heard, ever... and SC3 too, and... oh just check the comments below) 1. John Oswald - 69 Plunderphonics 96 (seeland/fony) 2. John Wall - Constructions V-VII (utterpsalm) 3. Fennesz - Endless Summer (mego) 4. Fantômas - The Director's Cut (ipecac) 5. DJ Smallcock - yinyue (dual plover) 6. John Wiese - Collected Tracks (helicopter) 7. Sachiko M/Toshimaru Nakamura - Do (erstwhile) 8. Francisco López - Untitled #104 (alien8) 9. Secret Chiefs 3 - Book M (mimicry) 10. Bastard Noise - Descent to Mimas (groundfault) Comments: 1. an easy pick many would say, but this is just an outstanding package. Not to mention that most of the tracks that were previously "available" have been wonderfully revamped. It's true that some of his ideas are more interesting on paper than in practice, but then again almost all of this is highly enjoyable. 2. more minimal than ever, concentrated sound distilled from strong sources. 3. just beautiful, inspiring. Consistently amazing and great. 4. almost a guilty pleasure, this was a no-brainer. Good film tunes mangled and reenergized, short and sweet. 5. 9 hours of chinese radio cut down to 55 minutes, using only the pause button of a tape recorder. A noisy and interesting take on plunderphonics. 6. tracks 3-6 from this are for when Merzbow isn't noisy enough (!!!), and tracks 1,2,7,8 are creepy droning works. Another stunning find through Bananafish... 7. i can't remember where I read this but... it truly sounds like laser beams turned into sound. Precise, devastating. 8. a huge surprise, an avalanche of metal! 9. the middle-eastern influences have now completely taken over... SC3 just get better and better, which is scary 'cos I don't know how Trey could top this... the next Bungle perhaps? 10. another project involving John Wiese, the "new" version of Bastard Noise (along with Eric Wood of Man is the Bastard) here performs a devastating aural interpretation of a spaceship landing on Mimas (Jupiter's closest moon) and the following events... some great noisy parts, and a sublime final ambient 30 minute track. bonus stuff: Most amazing, surreal buy: LaMonte Young and The Forever Bad Blues Band: Live at the Kitchen... bought at CDNOW!!! omg I still don't believe it... the thing's been out of print forever, and after searching everywhere, I found it at CDNOW. Who'd a thunk it... And btw, this also amazingly lived up to all the hype I'd heard about it, it's a real blues reinvention. Now if only the Well-Tuned Piano DVD would come out... Best compilations: The Moonlanding 7" series, 1+2 and 3+4 (helicopter), short but wonderful noise comps. Aube, Haters, MSBR, etc.. assembled by John Wiese. Best boxset (probably, if I'd heard it...) : V/A: No Nothing, from No Music Festival 2000 (non musica rex) Best CDRs: 1. Smell & Quim: Spaceshit (no label, no date... but I think it came out in 2000, whatever) 2. Decaer Pinga/Runzelstirn & Gurgelstock: Omitting the troll (2xCDr) (chocolate monk) Comments: 1. Not as noisy as you'd expect from them, but truly varied and odd, consistently interesting. 2. Waaaaay out there. I was kinda weirded out by R&G's "Asshole/Snail Dilemma" but this collaboration with Decaer Pinga is astounding, strange noise. contenders for the top 10 or honorable mentions (i.e. stuff that might have made the list if I'd gotten around to buying them... you'll see those here next year most probably): Bastard Noise: Throne is Melting (helicopter) Anderson/Sophiea: Medication (family vineyard) Space Machine: Cosmos From Diode Ladder Filter (alchemy) Christine 23 Onna: Shiny Crystal Planet (alchemy) Aube: timemind (alchemy) Merzbow: Hard Lovin' Man (anoema) Nihilist Spasm Band with Joe McPhee: No Borders 2CD (non musica rex) that's it for me... Bruno _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer Subject: SWANS Live Tapes Date: 19 Dec 2001 08:25:52 -0500 >> a much better source for hearing these songs live rather than >>"Anonymous Bodies In An Empty Room" are the live tapes sold for $10 at >>www.swans.pair.com. > You haven=B4t tried any of the earlier tapes around the period of "Cop", = > "Filth" and "Greed" by any chance? I=B4m thinking about getting a ton of = > those tapes, but was wondering about the quality of those tapes Some of the live tapes on sale at www.swans.pair.com are stellar. The sound quality is generally excellent (by analog live tape standards). If you are in doubt, I suggest you try Amsterdam, 1988 (Catalog # 042) 1. Blood on Your Hands (Jarboe) (06:39) 2. Jane Mary, Cry One Tear (05:59) 3. Let It Come Down (07:30) 4. "The Unknown" (07:34) 5. "She Won't Go Away" (07:57) 6. Still A Child (Jarboe) (05:21) 7. See No More (07:41) 8. Trust Me (11:18) 9. Love Will Tear Us Apart (Jarboe)(04:50) 10. Sex, God, Sex (11:17) 11. Various Audience Tricks (03:41) 12. New Mind (05:35) I think there is some general consensus that this is one of the best live tapes on the site. It has some "Burning World", some "Children of God", some "Blood Women Roses", their Joy Division cover, and two songs that have never been released, "The Unknown" and "She Won't Go Away". What is really amazing is that these two songs were never released. They are as good as any SWANS song ever recorded. No joke. That these two songs have been relegated to bootleg-only status typifies the marketing and promotional blundering that have kept SWANS from the top-40 super stardom that we all knew they could otherwise achieve. A few of us have sporadically been digitally remastering these tapes (for our personal listening pleasure only). We have been posting the set-lists (like the one shown above) and sound quality comments on the discussion board at www.swans.pair.com. The topic is "SET LISTS FOR SWANS LIVE TAPES". This will give you a good idea of the tape content and quality, but start with Amsterdam, 1988. As for Greed/Holy Money era (85-87) live shows, there are currently available cd reissues of three "official bootlegs" from Atavistic (www.atavistic.com) and Young God Records (www.younggodrecords.com), namely "Public Castration is a Good Idea", "Kill the Child", and "Real Love". The latter two also contain "Children of God" material but I remember them having some Greed/Holy Money content as well. I don't think there are any live tapes of this era better than these three cds, and "Public Castration is a Good Idea" is the best. As for live shows predating Greed & Holy Money, check the discussion list at www.swans.pair.com. As I recall, there are comments on at least one of those. David K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?Windows-1252?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= Subject: Top List 2001 (a bit long) Date: 19 Dec 2001 14:53:22 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C1889C.E80FA660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, There goes my list. No particular order and some old records and = reissues included. -Dave Douglas "Witness" (BMG).=20 -Fant=F4mas "The Director's Cut" (Ipecac Records).=20 -Masada "Live at Tonic" (Tzadik).=20 -John Zorn "Filmworks X" (Tzadik).=20 -Mark Helias' Open Loose "Old School" (Enja).=20 -Cecil Taylor Unit "It is in the Brewing Luminous" (Hatology). -Fred Frith "Clearing" (Tzadik) -Ruins "Live at Kichijoji Mandala II" (Tzadik).=20 -Oren Bloedow & Jennifer Charles "La Mar Enfortuna" (Tzadik) -Tim Berne "The Shell Game" (Thirsty Ear) -Chicago Underground Quartet (Thrill Jockey) And I ran a bit late with: Satoko Fujii "Looking out of the Window" (Nippon Crown) Myra Melford "Even the Sounds Shine"- Cdr Wadada Leo Smith "Reflectability" (Tzadik) Matthew Shipp "Pastoral Composure" (Thirsty Ear) Charles Mingus "At the Bohemia" (Debut) Death Ambient- Ikue Mori/Fred Frith/Kato Hideki- "Synaesthesia" (Tzadik) Derek Bailey/Jamadeleen Tacuma/Derek Bailey "Mirakle" (Tzadik) John Coltrane "Ascension" (Impulse!) William Parker "In Order to Survive" (Black Saint) Books: Baxter, John "Stanley Kubrick: A Biography" Hispano, Andr=E9s "David Lynch: Claroscuro Americano"=20 Hesse, Hermann "Demian" Burroughs, William S. "The Naked Lunch" Yamamoto, Jocho "Hagakure" (Thanks for the recommendations here, BTW) Duras, Marguerite "L'amant de la Chine du Nord" Duras, Maguerite "Le ravissement de Lol V. Stein" (French listers = correct mistakes here!) Films (none from this year, I think): Takeshi Kitano: "Hana-Bi" "Kikujiro" "Brother" Jim Jarmusch: "Stranger than Paradise" David Lynch: "The Straight Story" (can't remember the director): "Magnolia" Woody Allen: "Last Night of Boris Grushenkov" (if that's the original = English title) Sam Mendes: "American Beauty" Sorry for the long list, although I'm sure I'm letting things out. Best, Efr=E9n n.p: Chicago Underground Quartet ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C1889C.E80FA660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
 
There goes my list. No particular order and some old = records=20 and reissues included.
 
-Dave Douglas "Witness" (BMG).
-Fant=F4mas "The Director's Cut" (Ipecac Records). =
-Masada "Live at Tonic" (Tzadik).
-John Zorn = "Filmworks X"=20 (Tzadik).
-Mark Helias' Open Loose "Old School" (Enja). =
-Cecil Taylor Unit "It is in the Brewing Luminous"=20 (Hatology).
-Fred Frith "Clearing" (Tzadik)
-Ruins "Live at = Kichijoji=20 Mandala II" (Tzadik). 
-Oren Bloedow & Jennifer Charles "La = Mar=20 Enfortuna" (Tzadik)
-Tim Berne "The Shell Game" (Thirsty = Ear)
-Chicago=20 Underground Quartet (Thrill Jockey)
 
And I ran a bit late with:

Satoko Fujii = "Looking out of=20 the Window" (Nippon Crown)
Myra Melford "Even the Sounds Shine"-=20 Cdr
Wadada Leo Smith "Reflectability" (Tzadik)
Matthew Shipp = "Pastoral=20 Composure" (Thirsty Ear)
Charles Mingus "At the Bohemia" = (Debut)
Death=20 Ambient- Ikue Mori/Fred Frith/Kato Hideki- "Synaesthesia" = (Tzadik)
Derek=20 Bailey/Jamadeleen Tacuma/Derek Bailey "Mirakle" (Tzadik)
John = Coltrane=20 "Ascension" (Impulse!)
William Parker "In Order to Survive" (Black=20 Saint)
 
Books:
 
Baxter, John "Stanley Kubrick: A = Biography"
Hispano, Andr=E9s "David Lynch: Claroscuro = Americano"=20
Hesse, Hermann "Demian"
Burroughs, William S. "The Naked Lunch"
Yamamoto, Jocho "Hagakure" (Thanks for the = recommendations=20 here, BTW)
Duras, Marguerite "L'amant de la Chine du = Nord"
Duras, Maguerite "Le ravissement de Lol V. Stein" = (French=20 listers correct mistakes here!)
 
Films (none from this year, I think):
 
Takeshi Kitano: "Hana-Bi"
        =    =20             = "Kikujiro"
        =    =20             = "Brother"
Jim Jarmusch: "Stranger than Paradise"
David Lynch: "The Straight Story"
(can't remember the director): = "Magnolia"
Woody Allen: "Last Night of Boris Grushenkov" (if = that's the=20 original English title)
Sam Mendes: "American Beauty"
 
Sorry for the long list, although I'm sure I'm = letting things=20 out.
 
Best,
 
Efr=E9n
n.p: Chicago Underground = Quartet
------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C1889C.E80FA660-- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew" Subject: 01 best of. Date: 19 Dec 2001 09:13:43 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C1886D.74DDF2C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My list; I find most jazz trite and uninteresting (unlike my pretentious = indie-hip hop). =3D) 1. cLOUDDEAD- "clouddead" (Mush records) 2. John Zorn- "The Gift" (Tzadik) 3. Aesop Rock- "Labor Days" (Def Jux) 4. Prefuse 73- "Vocal Studies and Uprock Narratives" (Warp) 5. Chicago Underground Quartet- s.t. (thrill jockey) 6. The Handsome Family- "Twilight"=20 7. Cex- "Oops, I did it again" (Tigerbeat 6) 8. the Dismemberment Plan- "Change" (Desoto) 9. Cannibal Ox- "The Cold Vein" (Def Jux) 10. Dabrye- "3/5" (Ghostly International) 11. Tortoise- "standards" (thrill jockey) Film:=20 "Amorres Perros" / "Mulholland Drive" rocked my world.=20 andrew. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C1886D.74DDF2C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My list; I find most jazz trite and uninteresting = (unlike my=20 pretentious indie-hip hop).  =3D)
 
1. cLOUDDEAD- "clouddead" (Mush = records)
2. John Zorn- "The Gift" (Tzadik)
3. Aesop Rock- "Labor Days" (Def Jux)
4. Prefuse 73- "Vocal Studies and Uprock Narratives" = (Warp)
5. Chicago Underground Quartet- s.t. (thrill=20 jockey)
6. The Handsome Family- "Twilight" =
7. Cex- "Oops, I did it again" (Tigerbeat = 6)
8. the Dismemberment Plan- = "Change" (Desoto)
9. Cannibal Ox- "The Cold Vein" (Def = Jux)
10. Dabrye- "3/5" (Ghostly = International)
11. Tortoise- "standards" (thrill = jockey)
 
Film:
"Amorres Perros" / "Mulholland Drive" rocked my = world.=20
 
andrew.
 
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C1886D.74DDF2C0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Top of 2001 Date: 19 Dec 2001 09:18:37 EST Discs: Matthew Shipp's New Orbit Elvis Costello -- All This Useless Beauty (bonus disc) John Zorn -- Masada Live at Tonic 2001 Stefan Winter -- The Little Trumpet (reissue) Herb Robertson -- Transparency (reissue) Erik Friedlander -- Grains of Paradise Wilco -- Yankee Hotel Foxtrot Roy Campbell -- Ethnic Stew and Brew Tim Berne -- Open Coma Pernice Brothers -- The World Won't End - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?A?= Subject: Re: 01 best of Date: 19 Dec 2001 08:33:15 -0600 (CST) 1. Fantômas - The Director's Cut (Ipecac) 2. Secret Chiefs 3 - Book M (Mimicry) 3. Opeth - Blackwater Park (Music for Nations) 4. Faxed Head - Chiropractic (Mimicry) 5. Ulver - Perdition City (Jester) 6. Diabolical Masquerade - Death's Design (Avantgarde) 7. Tool - Lateralus (Volcano/Dissectional) 8. JZ - The Gift (Tzadik) 9. Kreuzweg Ost - Iron Avantgarde (Napalm) 10. Karaboudjan - Sbrodj (Relapse) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? ¿Quieres armar tu própia página Web pero no sabes HTML? Usa los asistentes de edición de Yahoo! Geocities y tendrás un sitio en sólo unos minutos. Visítanos en http://espanol.geocities.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer Subject: 2001 top 10 Date: 19 Dec 2001 09:36:13 -0500 Musically speaking, 2001 was for me mostly a year to search for used free improv lps I hadn't heard before. Of material released for the first time in 2001, I bought at most 10 cds this year. The only ones worth mentioning in a top 10 list are all (coincidentally) website exclusives: 1. Solo Recordings at Home - M. Gira (Young God Records) 2. The Appleyard Files - D. Bailey (Incus) 3. Chats - D. Bailey (Incus) David K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: top 10 of 2001 Date: 19 Dec 2001 16:02:52 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C188A6.9D46DC20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable thanks for all those lists made up out of artists I have never heard a = note of! I' ll have my fill with an all Dutch top 10, mostly from groups = available either through BVHaast of Challenge Records in Holland. 1. AA KISMET: What's the use of crying when the wolves have arrived = (ZZZZZZ 6, through Worm/ Dodorama) 2. Mosaic: Yes! (TryTone/ BVHaast) 3. Wolfert Brederode/ Eric Ineke Quintet: Pictures of You (A-Records/ = Challenge) 4. Tony Overwater 3 + guests: OP/ tribute to Oscar Pettiford (Turtle = Records) 5. Amsterdam Klezmer Band: Limonchiki (Knitting Factory Works) 6. Ab Baars Trio & Roswell Rudd: Four (Data) 7. The Ex Orkest: Rondje Holland (Ex Records/ De Konkurrent) 8. Slang: Los Locos (Carbon 7) These guys are Belgians btw... 9. ICP Orchestra: Oh my dog! (ICP/ BVHaast) 10. Aka Moon: In Real Time (Carbon 7) (also Belgians) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: UFOrbK8@aol.com=20 To: velaires@earthlink.net ; zorn-list@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 8:21 AM Subject: Re: avant-elitism. In a message dated 12.18.01 20:57:00, velaires@earthlink.net writes: >That little glossary of terms had more to do with the paragraph to = which >you >were responding, but thank you for letting me know your credentials = and >that >I am not to make any snide little jokes of my own the e-presence of = someone >with conservatory training in composition. um, ouch. it was a joke, actually. i was defacing my "conservatory=20 training" as well, by noting its over pretentia. let's just lay it = out flat;=20 unless i'm directly talking about a piece, everything that comes out = of my=20 mouth is total bullshit... xxoo kate peterson. ----- nothing in moderation. (ernie kovacs) i love you, you pay my rent. (pet shop boys) k a t e p e t e r s o n composer / performer UFOrbK8@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html - ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C188A6.9D46DC20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
thanks for all those lists made up out of artists I have never = heard a note=20 of! I' ll have my fill with an all Dutch top 10, mostly from groups = available=20 either through BVHaast of Challenge Records in Holland.
 
1. AA KISMET: What's the use of crying when the wolves have arrived = (ZZZZZZ=20 6, through Worm/ Dodorama)
2. Mosaic: Yes! (TryTone/ BVHaast)
3. Wolfert Brederode/ Eric Ineke Quintet: Pictures of You = (A-Records/=20 Challenge)
4. Tony Overwater 3 + guests: OP/ tribute to Oscar Pettiford = (Turtle=20 Records)
5. Amsterdam Klezmer Band: Limonchiki (Knitting Factory = Works)
6. Ab Baars Trio & Roswell Rudd: Four (Data)
7. The Ex Orkest: Rondje Holland (Ex Records/ De Konkurrent)
8. Slang: Los Locos (Carbon 7) These guys are Belgians btw...
9. ICP Orchestra: Oh my dog! (ICP/ BVHaast)
10. Aka Moon: In Real Time (Carbon 7) (also Belgians)
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 UFOrbK8@aol.com=20
To: velaires@earthlink.net ; zorn-list@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, = 2001 8:21=20 AM
Subject: Re: = avant-elitism.


In a message dated 12.18.01 20:57:00, velaires@earthlink.net=20 writes:

>That little glossary of terms had more to do with = the=20 paragraph to which
>you
>were responding, but thank you = for=20 letting me know your credentials and
>that
>I am not to = make any=20 snide little jokes of my own the e-presence of someone
>with=20 conservatory training in composition.

um, ouch.  it was a = joke,=20 actually.  i was defacing my "conservatory
training" as well, = by=20 noting its over pretentia.  let's just lay it out flat; =
unless i'm=20 directly talking about a piece, everything that comes out of my =
mouth is=20 total bullshit...

<bows in deference to your superior = listserv=20 capabilities>
<realises that i am the only girl on the list,=20 probably, and sometimes boys
just don't Get It=20 :)>

xxoo

kate = peterson.



-----
nothing in=20 moderation.
(ernie kovacs)

i love you, you pay my = rent.
(pet shop=20 boys)

k a t e  p e t e r s o n
composer / = performer
UFOrbK8@aol.com
http://www.geocities.= com/uforbk8/kate.html

-
------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C188A6.9D46DC20-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Re: girls of zorn Date: 19 Dec 2001 10:37:48 -0500 Kate, If you know (as male, female, or nueter) all the lyrics to "the girls of porn" by memory, you belong here: http://www.fnm.com/list.html Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew Mitchell" Subject: Top of 2001 Date: 19 Dec 2001 10:54:15 -0500 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII These also include things not necessarily released in 2001 but discovered this year. In no particular order: Xenakis - Orchestral Works Vol II (timpani) Rihm - Morphonie/Klangbeschreibung (hanssler classic) Xenakis - a 2CD thing containing one disc of his harpsichord-related pieces and one disc of ensemble Intercontemporain stuff Rihm - Gejagte Form (Kairos) Harrison Birtwistle -Pulse Shadows (Teldec) Anything that came out on Erstwhile Fennesz - Endless Summer, and the rest of his albums, too (mego) MIMEO - Electric Chair and Table (Grob) Radian - TG11 (Mego) rlw - Tulpas (Selektion) Drumm/Wehowsky - Cases (Selektion) Marchetti/Noetinger/Werchowski (Corpus Hermeticum) Schick/Neumann - Petit Pale (Zarek) Perlonex - Peripherique (Zarek) Rowe/Beins - Grain (Zarek) Muller/Sugimoto - I am Happy if you are happy (for4ears) Krebs/Neumann - Rotophormen (charizma) Neumann/Nakamura - Aton (rossbin) Dafeldecker/Kurzmann/Fennesz/o'rourke/drumm/Siewert (Charizma) poire z - presque_chic (sonoris) Drumm/Sugimoto - Den (sonoris) Dachte Musik (Grob) Dafeldecker/Hegenbart - Eis 9 (Grob) Voice Crack/Marchetti/Noetinger - Double Wash (Grob) This Heat - Deceit (These) Mike Keneally - Wooden Smoke (Exowax) etc., etc. -matt mitchell ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
These also include things not necessarily released in 2001 but discovered this year.  In no particular order:
 
Xenakis - Orchestral Works Vol II (timpani)
Rihm - Morphonie/Klangbeschreibung (hanssler classic)
Xenakis - a 2CD thing containing one disc of his harpsichord-related pieces and one disc of ensemble Intercontemporain stuff
Rihm - Gejagte Form (Kairos)
Harrison Birtwistle -Pulse Shadows (Teldec)
Anything that came out on Erstwhile
Fennesz - Endless Summer, and the rest of his albums, too (mego)
MIMEO - Electric Chair and Table (Grob)
Radian - TG11 (Mego)
rlw - Tulpas (Selektion)
Drumm/Wehowsky - Cases (Selektion)
Marchetti/Noetinger/Werchowski (Corpus Hermeticum)
Schick/Neumann - Petit Pale (Zarek)
Perlonex - Peripherique (Zarek)
Rowe/Beins - Grain (Zarek)
Muller/Sugimoto - I am Happy if you are happy (for4ears)
Krebs/Neumann - Rotophormen (charizma)
Neumann/Nakamura - Aton (rossbin)
Dafeldecker/Kurzmann/Fennesz/o'rourke/drumm/Siewert (Charizma)
poire z - presque_chic (sonoris)
Drumm/Sugimoto - Den (sonoris)
Dachte Musik (Grob)
Dafeldecker/Hegenbart - Eis 9 (Grob)
Voice Crack/Marchetti/Noetinger - Double Wash (Grob)
This Heat - Deceit (These)
Mike Keneally - Wooden Smoke (Exowax)
 
etc., etc.
 
-matt mitchell
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: Josh Roseman update Date: 19 Dec 2001 10:54:07 -0500 For those who've been wondering for a while whatever happened to Josh Roseman's 'Cherry' album on Enja, here's an update. Here in the U.S. at least, it is now a February release on Knitting Factory Records. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: avant-elitism. Date: 19 Dec 2001 10:51:17 -0600 On Wed, Dec 19, 2001 at 11:51:58PM -0800, Skip Heller wrote: > > nothing in moderation. > > (ernie kovacs) > I worked for a time as a Kovacs archivist. You might be best not quoting the > author of a book like ZOOMAR. What is ZOOMAR? (Watching Ernie Kovacs reruns when I was a kid permanently warped my brain...) -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ricardo Reis Subject: a long shot: Lisa Germano [NZC] Date: 17 Dec 2001 15:09:04 +0000 (WET) Hi, this is a long shot, but does any of you know about Lisa Germano? Is she doing something new? thanx, Ricardo Reis "Non Serviam" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nirav Soni" Subject: Re: 2001 top 10 (and other stuff) Date: 19 Dec 2001 11:28:23 -0500 > Best CDRs: > 1. Smell & Quim: Spaceshit (no label, no date... but I think it came out in > 2000, whatever) If you dig the S+Q (who doesn't?) you really ought to check out the Milovan Srdenovic solo lp on Freedom From. It's not noise at all, it's more like demented outsider making-a-ruckus-with-toys and Tom Waits-with-the-shits vocals. "I don't want no zulu-gynecologist" indeed. > 2. Decaer Pinga/Runzelstirn & Gurgelstock: Omitting the troll (2xCDr) > (chocolate monk) I've only heard a comp track by R&G, probably a good 4-5 years ago, but I remember being really thrown off by it. There were these big spaces, interrupted by short outbursts of strangeness. It was on the "Release Your Mind" triple cd comp...is this anything of a good intro to the band? Have they done better work? > Bastard Noise: Throne is Melting (helicopter) Both Helicopter things you mentioned are very nice indeed. The last two tracks on this are just lovely, lots of interesting textures, keeps an undertone of menace without actually fully jumping at yr throat. Did you check out the Sissy Spacek also on Helicopter? Lots of fun, short (5-10 secs long) noise burts, some rockisms, some more digital stuff, great for random playing. My list'll pop it's little head up soon. Anyone else going to see the new Jan Svankmajer film "Little Otik" tonight at Film Forum (all you new yorkers.) Just bought my ticket online! I think it'll probably make it's way onto my list. http://www.filmforum.com/otik.html http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0151/hoberman.php (go about halfway down the page) Cheers! Nirav (for whatever reason, really digging the grotesque as of late) -- AIM: Icefactory37 "Duration is to the consciousness as light is to the eye" - Bill Viola - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: (...top 10?) Date: 19 Dec 2001 12:26:30 EST so i actually only purchased about 5 CDs this whole calendar year, being unemployed and all. so here is a list of what i've burned, stolen, or otherwise acquired and liked. sorry it's not so weird or anything. it's also in no particular order. it's also probably not ten items. i'm bad at this quantification thing. boards of canada - let the music have children this is a really, really fucked up album. kind of dance techno avant-pop. stereolab - (the new album) right, so i don't actually own the new stereolab album, but it opens up on this positively cool whole tone scale which makes me so happy i could scream. can - ege bamyasi so, this album is like 30 years old. but it rules. jim altieri - tweeg:phonic 1 jim's a good friend of mine. i've heard only bits and pieces of this album, since he hasn't bothered to send me a copy yet, but i'm sure it rules. jim has built this really ridiculous instrument in max/msp and generates really, really nice sound. he is my co-collaborator and his music and our joint music can be found at http://www.mp3.com/tweeg henryk gorecki - symphony 3 another oldie but goodie - if you don't own it, you should, if only because gorecki is one of the few people on earth who makes full string orchestra sound good. hint: only listen to the dawn upshaw recording. heiner goebbels - black on white i don't think this album came out this year, either. i think it came out in 99 or 00. regardless, it is out of print and unavailable according to everyone i've tried to buy it from. that's a shame, too, because this is a weird, weird, kind of scary album by a weird, weird, kind of scary german composer. phish - live phish 4 (6.14.00 drum logos, fukuoka, japan) i bet a lot of you think phish suck. that's an understandable opinion. i happen to love phish a real lot, and this is a hot, hot show. i always have liked the smaller show setting and the shows are usually way better. for anyone who cares to know, this show's first set is ridiculously sick. carini --> curtain --> cities which is just a really happening show opener. and the jams are surprisingly tight, especially the last minute or so of fee on disc one. even if (or maybe especially if) you hate phish, this is worth at least listening to once. brian eno - music for airports / ambient 1 so, not only did this album come out in 1978, but i've owned it for a good six years. i just put it on every list of my albums of the year because it's probably my favourite album of all time. enough so that i got the score for 1/1 tattooed on my stomach. spiritualized - let it come down a lot of people have panned this album. i didn't. maybe it's because i have a piece named after the same paul bowles book (...let it come down). maybe it's because i've done as many drugs as the dude who writes these songs. the one precautionary item is that if you've listened to a lot of brit pop (specifically, the charlatans UK - between 10th and 11th), you're going to be singing to yourself "i can see a rainbow / coming out of your hole" by the end of this disc... vincent calianno - fuel this piece hasn't officially been 'released' (i don't think any of his music has), but he sent it to me after it premiered a couple of weeks ago. fuel is a concerto for electric cello. i don't think that says a lot about it. vinny can assemble music better than almost anyone i know, and the 2nd --> 3rd movement transition of this piece is sick. it doesn't hurt that his pet cellist, kivie cahn-lipman is brutally amazing. plus, he got stefan tcherepnin to run electronics/sound, so all of vinny's good ideas actually sound good, too. it's a really exciting piece. bang on a can - (uh oh, i can't remember the name of the disc) this CD is sitting downstairs, and i just bought it last week which would account for why i don't know the name of the CD. but there are 5 pieces on it, i think, three of which i remember, and one of which i actually know the title of. they are all, however really good. the first piece is by julia wolfe, veteran bang on a can offendor. it rules. the third piece on the disc is called 'i am paul' by michael gordon. every piece i've ever heard by michael gordon has practically make me puke it's so good. he uses electric instruments all distorted with such briliant ease. the fourth piece on the disc is something kind of far out by glenn branca. this CD makes me really happy. --- the books list is way shorter, even though i read just so much... jim knipfel - quitting the nairobi trio this is jim knipfel's memoir about his 6 month stay in a mental hospital. it's so funny and so well done, and i was really excited about this book and read it in one night. i was not disappointed. plus, i emailed jim knipfel and started talking with him sort of, and it was cool that he actually responded to my email. he writes for the NY Press, (http://www.nypress.com), but his archived articles can be found here: http://www.missioncreep.com/slackjaw/index.html david sedaris - me talk pretty one day this was an equally great book. i emailed david sedaris' publisher about getting in contact with him, and got a really bitchy email back, which sucked. but oh well. and as always, one for the road... william s. burroughs - final journals every year since i was in 9th grade i've pick my burroughs book of the year. this this is it. --- long winded, kate. ----- nothing in moderation. (ernie kovacs) where there's a mission, there's a missionary. (jim altieri) k a t e p e t e r s o n composer / performer UFOrbK8@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: avant-elitism. Date: 19 Dec 2001 10:15:07 -0800 Joseph Zitt wrote: > > What is ZOOMAR? _Zoomar_ is Kovacs' roman-a-clef about the early days of network television. Fairly hilarious, featuring the expected off-kilter tone with flashes of surrealism. Well worth seeking out on abebooks.com. -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "For children are innocent and love justice; while most of us are wicked and naturally prefer mercy" -- G.K. Chesterton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeni Dahmus" Subject: RE: avant-elitism (anti-elitism, girls) Date: 19 Dec 2001 13:18:29 -0500 > In a message dated 12.19.01, UFOrbK8@aol.com wrote: > sometimes boys just don't Get It :)> In fact there are many female list members, but we are not in the vocal majority. The topic of avant-girls was discussed on the list at length about two years ago. I remember one of the subject lines: "no girls allowed." The discussion was quite interesting, should you wish to check the Zorn list archives. Zorn's outlook on elitism is a sensitive issue. He does not discriminate between high/low art and conservatory-trained/self-taught. Nor should we, in my opinion. Think of the contrasting influences he cites, everything from Albert Ayler to Japanese hardcore like G.I.S.M. While Zorn did study music formally, he is largely self-taught. His on-going passion for the pursuit of knowledge, beyond school, is significant. In the past few years his work has indeed received recognition among peer composers and so-called elitist institutions. Yet he continues to embrace a wide variety of musics, even if prominent establishments do not. Jeni - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Re: Duke Pearson Date: 15 Dec 2001 09:20:24 -0500 Mickey Roker has always impressed me with his ability to shift gears remarkably. The guy who fires up Lee Morgan's "Lighthouse" band sure doesn't sound like the same guy who kept polite time behind Oscar or Ella. James Hale Skip Heller wrote: > What's really amazing is that that's Mickey Roker, with whom I have played. > He sounds very different on here. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: top 10 Date: 20 Dec 2001 10:20:52 -0800 1. v/a -- Hava Narghoulie : Turkish Rock 1966-75 (Dionysus) Some of this is awful, but the best stuff on here is just amazing. 2. Richard Pryor -- ... And It's Deep, Too: the Warner Bros Years (Rhino) Almost all the Richard Pryor you could ever need. I hate to say things like "the greatest" etc, but, for RP 3. Bob Wills -- Boot Heel Drag: Best Of The MGM Years (Poly) The last great edition of the Texas Playboys, anthologized to doulble disc. 4. Dave Douglas -- A Thousand Evenings (RCA) 5. v/a -- East Side Sound 2 (Dionysus) Obscure Chicano garage bands of the sixties. Killing. 6. The Stickmen -- Insatiable (Cuneiform) They reissued my misspent youth! Philly's greatest early 80s export, a no wave band that makes the Contortions look like Culture Club. Now if someone would just reissue the complete Tin Huey. 7. X-- Los Angeles 8. X -- Wild Gift 9. X -- Under The Big Black Sun (all Rhino) Three amazing discs, all reissued with serious bonus tracks. Yet another element of my misspent youth. 10. Carla Bley -- 4X4 (ECM) Still my favorite bandleader, still making fantastic records. best -- skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: Top of 2001 Date: 19 Dec 2001 10:21:09 -0800 (PST) You've made some damned good recommendations, Matt. A newcomer with sympathetic ears could use your list as a catalog of engrossing and cutting-edge e/a performance and composition, based on the portion I've heard. A couple comments: --- Matthew Mitchell wrote: > rlw - Tulpas (Selektion) Again, for those who have missed this really cheap 5cd box (book, really), you must correct your error immediately: for dynamic electroacoustic stuff, this is just about unbeatable; esp. for fans of the RLW approach. I also like the VARIIOUS 2cd comp on Intransitive. I raved about these last year, but I continue to get great mileage out of them. > Drumm/Wehowsky - Cases (Selektion) Nobody commented on this, I think. What's it like? And what's the deal with SHORT CDs? I mean, an album needn't be certain length, but all these records that seem determined to not break the 40min limit....seems intentional and artifical. But that could be the paranoia talking. > Dafeldecker/Kurzmann/Fennesz/o'rourke/drumm/Siewert > (Charizma) > Drumm/Sugimoto - Den (sonoris) Again, not news, but these two e/a improv records are Super Keepers, if you like that kind of thing. Kevin Drumm's sucking-scrape-pan-and-warble guttering-candle prepared guitar is the star on much of both. > Dafeldecker/Hegenbart - Eis 9 (Grob) > Voice Crack/Marchetti/Noetinger - Double Wash (Grob) I'd really like to know about these records. I read an eloquent but unhelpful review of the first elsewhere, and I can imagine what the second would sound like, but any help would be appreciated. Is DOUBLE WASH essential if I already have the Marchetti/Werchowski/Noetinger (which I like) and the Otomo Yoshihide and Voice Crack on Erstwhile (not mention several Voice Crack records)? I'm asking because my bank account can't handle much more redundancy. The Poire_Z PRESQUE CHIC, for example, is a good record, but I found it rather inessetial compared to their self-titled first record; the two are simply not must-haves in one collections, not with so much else to check out. Finally, a recommendation: Speaking of Erstwhile, that new Ielasi/Sciajno, RIGHT AFTER, is a skittering, sly, concretish masterpiece; if indeed the whole record was cut "live", I'm all the more floored. I want to know how they do it. For, say, Kevin Drumm fans, I would say the record is the next step: it's _essential_. It's not exactly easy listening, but from those flailing tendrils of ultra-high frequencies at the beginning to the recurring cut-ups later on the record, it's a vertiginous listening experience, and it seems to be bearing up well under repeated visits. Damned good, and not without a sense of athletics and humor. -----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CuneiWay@aol.com Subject: Iron Path Date: 16 Dec 2001 08:14:44 EST Steve Smith wrote re: Last Exit: >The >studio disc 'Iron Path' is to be avoided by all but the utmost Laswell >fan >(and those who own all the other discs), but aside from that, it's hard >to >go wrong. Steve, I am usually in agreement with you, but "Iron Path" is the only one I really like (I will admit to not hearing all of them in some time), & I don't see how you can recommend the extremely spotty Live In Japan (??) (The one with "Big Boss Man" on it) over it. I am curious to know what about Iron Path you so dislike? It's not the big "four big egos on a stage" (as someone I met who liked them & saw them play once referred to them to me) like all of their other albums - all of which are live recordings, right? - but I think it's a better album for that. and I'm not even a Laswell apologist! :-) Steve F. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: avant-elitism (anti-elitism, girls) Date: 19 Dec 2001 10:49:30 -0800 On Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:18:29 -0500 "Jeni Dahmus" wrote: > > Zorn did study music formally, he is largely self-taught. His on-going > passion for the pursuit of knowledge, beyond school, is significant. In > the past few years his work has indeed received recognition among peer > composers and so-called elitist institutions. Yet he continues to And very similar to Zappa, he is recognized for what, I think, is not the most original (groundbreaking) part of his production. What he does in the "classical contemporary" style fits well with the expectations of the genre (which still tries to maintain its high-brow attitude -- we are not entertain- ment, even when most of the interesting experimental music is coming outside of academia). But like for Zappa, I have a hard time to see what his recent and polite compositions (when you look at the past 50 years of earth shatte- ring experiments by Stockhausen, Kagel, Xenakis, Cage, etc) bring the table of creativity compared to what he did in the late 70's, all 80's, and very early 90's. They are pleasant, but where is the fist in the face of ARCHERY, LOCUS SOLUS, SPILLANE, THE BIG GUNDOWN? But I don't expect Pierre Boulez to listen to FREAK OUT :-). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grey ElkGel Subject: Re: Wolf Eyes, was Sharrock Date: 19 Dec 2001 11:03:37 -0800 (PST) > From: "William York" > > Speaking of heavy, crazy, noisy, wall-of-sound, > losing-your-mind sort of stuff, if you are into that > and the group Wolf Eyes comes to your town, do > not miss them. I saw them last night (third time > this week, they are on tour from Michigan and in > California now) and it was absolutely amazing. i haven't had the chance to see them live, but Wolf Eyes' recordings are fantastic. the s/t CD [bulb], dread LP [hanson], and Wolf Eyes w/ Spykes CD-R [hanson] are among my favorite releases of the year. a brilliant mix of drum machines, cracked electronics, guitars, and noise squeezed into song-form. their claim of sounding like "suicide meets throbbing gristle and bon jovi" is actually pretty accurate. for more info: www.hansonrecords.com .greg. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bruno Bissonnette" Subject: Re: S+Q, was top 10 Date: 19 Dec 2001 14:08:10 -0500 >>2. Decaer Pinga/Runzelstirn & Gurgelstock: Omitting the troll (2xCDr) >>(chocolate monk) >I've only heard a comp track by R&G, probably a good 4-5 years ago, >but I >remember being really thrown off by it. There were these big >spaces, >interrupted by short outbursts of strangeness. It was on >the "Release Your >Mind" triple cd comp...is this anything of a good >intro to the band? Have >they done better work? I haven't heard that comp, but this collaboration doesn't have much empty space compared to the other R&G disc I have. I was surprised at how busy and dynamic it was, actually. Yet it's not abrasive noise (not that there's anything wrong with that). Quite good. >>Bastard Noise: Throne is Melting (helicopter) >Both Helicopter things you mentioned are very nice indeed. The last two >tracks on this are just lovely, lots of interesting textures, keeps an >undertone of menace without actually fully jumping at yr throat. Did >you >check out the Sissy Spacek also on Helicopter? Lots of fun, short > (5-10 >secs long) noise burts, some rockisms, some more digital stuff, >great for >random playing. Yes I have that too, and it almost made the list, but like I said there was already tons of other great stuff on there. The only complaint I have about that disc is that after a few listens it tends to be a little too even as the range of tones is pretty much the same over all 78 tracks. But it functions well as one 22 minute track, if you take it that way, and it's fun at random too as you mentionned. Bruno _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: black compositions Date: 13 Dec 2001 01:39:18 +1100 Just doing a bit of 'research' on all this, I found that in fact the first Human Feel album did have bass, then the other two didn't. The one I have, "Welcome To Malpesta" has no bass and no tunes written by Jim Black. The other two albums both do though... > >>>If memory serves well, Human Feel is Chris Speed Andrew d'Angelo, >>>Kurt > >>>Rosenwinkle, Jim Black... and a bassist whose name I must admit I > >>>forgot. > > Human Feel plays without bass..... > >>>Don't know the other Human Feel records... > > To be honest, me neither, but I just heard that fact... > Regards, Remco > >>> > >>>Pascal. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Ricardo=20Campillo?= Subject: top 10 list : 2001 Date: 19 Dec 2001 20:40:23 +0100 (CET) -not specially in order. -Uri Caine:Goldberg Variations:Aria and 70 v. asapted. -Fred Frith:Clearing. -Dave Douglas:Witness. -John Zorn:Masada Live at Tonic. -Marc Ribot:Saints. -The Cracow Klezmer Band:The Warriors. -John Zorn:Filmworks X In the mirror of Maya Deren. -Nick Cave:No more Shall we part. -Tool:Lateralus. -Bob Dylan:Love and Theft. Films. -Merci pour le chocolat-Claude Chabrol. -Amigogima-Jose Maria Nunes. -La Pianiste-Michael Haneke. -ABC Africa-Abbas Kiarostami. -En Construcción-Jose Luis Guerín. -Kandahar-Mohsen Makmalbaf. -Buñuel y la mesa del rey Salomón-Carlos Saura. -The Curse Of The Jade Scorpion-Woody Allen. -Lucía y el Sexo-Julio Medem. -La Inglesa y el duque-Eric Rohmer. Books.(Some are re-issues) -Jean-Luc Godard"Eloge de l' amour"(screenplay) -Chris Rodley"David Lynch por David Lynch" -Bruno Schulz"Las tiendas de color canela y El sanatorio de la clepsidra". -Joan Brossa"A Partir del Silenci"(only in Cataluña) -Pier Paolo Pasolini"Teorema"(not the screenplay,the novel) Regards for everybody. Richard. - _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Non-Zorn FS: Auto'd Tortoise, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Am=E9lie?= OST, Alboth! etc. Date: 15 Dec 2001 07:32:20 -0500 Clearing out some items Zorn listees may be interested in: Alboth! - "Liebefeld" GER CD (PDCD: cdppp112) 1992 Asmus Tietchens - "Marches Funebres" SWE CD (Multimood: mrc008) 1994 Carl Stone - "Em:t 1196" UK CD (T:me/Em:t) 1996 Hope Sandoval & The Warm Inventions - "At The Doorway Again" UK CDEP (Rough Trade) 2000 Tortoise - "Mosquito/Onions Wrapped In Rubber/Gooseneck" US 7" (Torsion: b17-003-7) 1993 - OOP Tortoise - "Tortoise" US CD (Thrill Jockey: thrill013) 1994 Tortoise - Millions Now Living Will Never Die" JAP CD (Tokuma: tkcb-70931) 1996 - AUTOGRAPHED w/ obi Tortoise - "Tortoise Remixed" JAP CD (Tokuma: tkcb-71016) 1996 - AUTOGRAPHED w/ obi V/A - "Em:t 5595" UK CD (T:me/Em:t) 1995 Yann Tiersen - "Le Fabuleux Destin d'Am=E9lie Poulain" CAN CD (Virgin) = 2001 Questions, prices, offers etc. ... -Patrick pm.carey@utoronto.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: 2001: Best of... Date: 19 Dec 2001 20:27:28 +0000 Best lyrics of the year, would have to be "Town of Stone" by The Ex, which was released in March or April: What is this town if, what a joke all of its pride goes up in smoke What is this town if, too unsound it burns itself down to the ground No chance to wait for things to change unless buildings get hit by planes All the best, _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M.B." Subject: Re: avant-elitism. Date: 19 Dec 2001 12:31:30 -0800 (PST) His less than spectacular stab at writing a novel about TV melodrama. "How to Talk at Gin" wasn't a major improvement either. MB > What is ZOOMAR? > > (Watching Ernie Kovacs reruns when I was a kid > permanently warped my > brain...) > > -- > |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ > --- Marcel Duchamp <| > | jzitt@metatronpress.com > http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | > | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls > http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | > | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John > Cage Discussion List | > > > - > ===== Conversation Piece Talk about the death of an imaginary person. If somebody is interested, bring out a black framed photograph of the deceased and show. If friends invite you, excuse yourself by explaining about the death of the person. 1963 Summer--Yoko Ono __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: my top 10 list / DAVID LYNCH Date: 19 Dec 2001 17:23:13 -0400 I didn't buy much CDs released this year but here they are: In no particular order: DEPECHE MODE - exciter FANTÔMAS - the director's cut GODFLESH - in all languages JAMES - pleased to meet you MORRISSEY - the cd singles 91-95 (Boxset) TRICKY - blowback SOUNDTRACK - mulholland drive And what about DVDs? Well, this year looks like it's a year for DAVID LYNCH fans. The TWIN PEAKS pilot was released in Hong Kong (Region 0), ELEPHANT MAN was released just a few days ago, and yesterday the complete first season of TWIN PEAKS (minus the pilot) was released. David Lynch's webpage opened this month. In january you will be able to buy the DVDs for ERASERHEAD, his SHORT FILMS and a new CD of a band called BLUE BOB (David Lynch and John neff, his sound engineer). It sounds like the song THE PINK ROOM from the "Twin Peaks - Fire Walk With Me" soundtrack. Oh, and this movie will be released in february in DVD. Lots of money to spend for LYNCH fans. Neil H. Enet ------------ PS. I didnot buy any ZORN albums this year. Do I belong in this list? Well ... :) NP. PET SHOP BOYS - discography - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: Re: avant-elitism (anti-elitism, girls) Date: 19 Dec 2001 16:26:10 EST --part1_b9.18c2ff8a.29525ff2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/19/01 12:19:47 PM Central Standard Time, jdahmus@juilliard.edu writes: > Zorn's outlook on elitism is a sensitive issue. He does not discriminate > between high/low art and conservatory-trained/self-taught. Nor should > we, in my opinion. this is a great point. i've heard tons of stories about zorn's formal training, since i go to school where he went for those first whiles of college and study with his teacher. bob chamberlin, said composition teacher, would no less agree on all points. i think composing is largely a self-taught subject anyways, with little more than "counselling" happening from the composition teacher. and a lot of the self-taught composers i know and know of are way more interesting than people who can analyse milton babbitt out of a paper bag a la alan forte. kate --part1_b9.18c2ff8a.29525ff2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/19/01 12:19:47 PM Central Standard Time, jdahmus@juilliard.edu writes:


Zorn's outlook on elitism is a sensitive issue. He does not discriminate
between high/low art and conservatory-trained/self-taught. Nor should
we, in my opinion.


this is a great point.  i've heard tons of stories about zorn's formal training, since i go to school where he went for those first whiles of college and study with his teacher.  bob chamberlin, said composition teacher, would no less agree on all points.  i think composing is largely a self-taught subject anyways, with little more than "counselling" happening from the composition teacher.  and a lot of the self-taught composers i know and know of are way more interesting than people who can analyse milton babbitt out of a paper bag a la alan forte.

kate --part1_b9.18c2ff8a.29525ff2_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: James Date: 19 Dec 2001 16:31:36 EST --part1_140.69a11c8.29526138_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/19/01 4:23:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, nilugo@usa.net writes: > I didn't buy much CDs released this year but here they are: > > In no particular order: > > JAMES - pleased to meet you > Was it just me, or was this this about the dullest thing you've ever heard? I honestly wasn't expecting a lot out of it though, after how completely wonderful I thought Millionaires was - not that most Americans ever heard it, much less knew it existed. Dale. --part1_140.69a11c8.29526138_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/19/01 4:23:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, nilugo@usa.net writes:


I didn't buy much CDs released this year but here they are:

In no particular order:

JAMES - pleased to meet you

Was it just me, or was this this about the dullest thing you've ever heard? I honestly wasn't expecting a lot out of it though, after how completely wonderful I thought Millionaires was - not that most Americans ever heard it, much less knew it existed.

Dale. --part1_140.69a11c8.29526138_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: my top 10 list / DAVID LYNCH Date: 19 Dec 2001 13:40:55 -0800 On Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:23:13 -0400 "Neil H. Enet" wrote: > > TRICKY - blowback Most people did not like that record and I can't understand why. It is defini- tely more commercial that his previous projects, but most of the songs still have this infectious groove that has become his trademark. Yes, I could live without a couple songs, but the rest is quite amazing. Another Tricky project is the ominous PRODUCT OF THE ENVIRONMENT (I have not listened to anything that impressed me so much in a while). I don't know the details of the story behind it, but (forgive my memory, or better, correct me) it is about gangsters that Tricky would have visited in jail. He recorded their comments on their lives and used that material with music in the background (at least at a level behind usual). Not all songs are successful but when it works (for me: 2nd and 3rd tracks), it is ominous and really powerfull. I have not been able to see the record in the USA. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: James Date: 19 Dec 2001 17:57:00 -0400 -------------- Was it just me, or was this this about the dullest thing you've ever heard? I honestly wasn't expecting a lot out of it though, after how completely wonderful I thought Millionaires was - not that most Americans ever heard it, much less knew it existed. ---------------- I actually like it very much, even more than MILLIONAIRES, although they are both great albums. But to me, they both sound very similar, same vibe. Anyway, be sure to check the new B-SIDES album, I understand it's a very good compilation. Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. FAITH NO MORE - album of the year - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nirav Soni" Subject: Re: 2001 top 10 (and other stuff) Date: 19 Dec 2001 11:28:23 -0500 > Best CDRs: > 1. Smell & Quim: Spaceshit (no label, no date... but I think it came out in > 2000, whatever) If you dig the S+Q (who doesn't?) you really ought to check out the Milovan Srdenovic solo lp on Freedom From. It's not noise at all, it's more like demented outsider making-a-ruckus-with-toys and Tom Waits-with-the-shits vocals. "I don't want no zulu-gynecologist" indeed. > 2. Decaer Pinga/Runzelstirn & Gurgelstock: Omitting the troll (2xCDr) > (chocolate monk) I've only heard a comp track by R&G, probably a good 4-5 years ago, but I remember being really thrown off by it. There were these big spaces, interrupted by short outbursts of strangeness. It was on the "Release Your Mind" triple cd comp...is this anything of a good intro to the band? Have they done better work? > Bastard Noise: Throne is Melting (helicopter) Both Helicopter things you mentioned are very nice indeed. The last two tracks on this are just lovely, lots of interesting textures, keeps an undertone of menace without actually fully jumping at yr throat. Did you check out the Sissy Spacek also on Helicopter? Lots of fun, short (5-10 secs long) noise burts, some rockisms, some more digital stuff, great for random playing. My list'll pop it's little head up soon. Anyone else going to see the new Jan Svankmajer film "Little Otik" tonight at Film Forum (all you new yorkers.) Just bought my ticket online! I think it'll probably make it's way onto my list. http://www.filmforum.com/otik.html http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0151/hoberman.php (go about halfway down the page) Cheers! Nirav (for whatever reason, really digging the grotesque as of late) -- AIM: Icefactory37 "Duration is to the consciousness as light is to the eye" - Bill Viola - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: my top 10 list / DAVID LYNCH Date: 19 Dec 2001 18:00:33 -0400 > TRICKY - blowback Most people did not like that record and I can't understand why. It is defini- tely more commercial that his previous projects, ---------------------------- That is totally true. After MAXINQUAYE everybody said that he was getting too weird, then he comes up with BLOWBACK which feautures RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS, ALANIS MORRISSETTE, CINDY LAUPER, the singer from LIVE, etc. (but like you said it still sounds TRICKY) and people hate it too because it's TOO commercial. What do people want? TRICKY - a very misunderstood artist Neil H. Enet ------------ FAITH NO MORE - album of the year - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" Subject: What's Good For The Goose........ Date: 19 Dec 2001 14:21:04 -0800 > Zorn's outlook on elitism is a sensitive issue. He does not discriminate > between high/low art and conservatory-trained/self-taught. Nor should > we, in my opinion. Why should we then discriminate between high opinions ("Don't discriminate between high/low art.") and low opinions ("Some forms of art are better than others.")? Or do these rules about not discriminating only apply to the value of art and not to the value of opinions about art? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: my top 10 list / DAVID LYNCH Date: 19 Dec 2001 17:24:23 EST In a message dated 12/19/01 4:23:29 PM, nilugo@usa.net writes: << In january you will be able to buy the DVDs for ERASERHEAD >> any more details on this? it doesn't seem possible to access any info on Lynch's web site without becoming a paying member. will you have to order it through him, or will all the normal outlets have it? Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew" Subject: Tricky Date: 19 Dec 2001 17:28:02 -0500 > That is totally true. After MAXINQUAYE everybody said that he was getting > too weird, then he comes up with BLOWBACK which feautures RED HOT CHILI > PEPPERS, ALANIS MORRISSETTE, CINDY LAUPER, the singer from LIVE, etc. (but > like you said it still sounds TRICKY) and people hate it too because it's > TOO commercial. What do people want? Howabout a solid, quality album like "maxinquaye' or "pre-millenial tension"? "Juxtapose" and "Blowback" have been Tricky's attempts to "break into the american MTV/mainstream market" and to "be more accessible to a radio audience", by "getting rid of factors that people aren't comfortable listening to." Where do I get these quotes? I interviewed Tricky this summer, and could hardly believe what I was hearing! The two aforementioned albums are horrible; they're just bad. "Juxtapose" is suppsed to be his "accessible mainstream hip hop album" (of course, even as such it falls flat) and "Blowback" was his attempt to appeal to the "adult contemporary" market. Fuck that. Tricky sold out- and I hate saying "sellout." andrew - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew" Subject: Re: my top 10 list / DAVID LYNCH Date: 19 Dec 2001 17:29:44 -0500 > Another Tricky project is the ominous PRODUCT OF THE ENVIRONMENT (I have not > listened to anything that impressed me so much in a while). I don't know the > details of the story behind it, but (forgive my memory, or better, correct > me) it is about gangsters that Tricky would have visited in jail. He recorded > their comments on their lives and used that material with music in the > background (at least at a level behind usual). Not all songs are successful > but when it works (for me: 2nd and 3rd tracks), it is ominous and really > powerfull. I have not been able to see the record in the USA. I asked Tricky about "product of the environment" this summer, when I interviewed him. He said that there was a big public outrage about it, and it will not be released in the USA- something about "not being able to profit from others' criminal actions." andrew - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: Re: What's Good For The Goose........ Date: 19 Dec 2001 17:25:33 EST --part1_8a.1135c36d.29526ddd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/19/01 4:23:34 PM Central Standard Time, keithmar@msn.com writes: > Why should we then discriminate between high opinions ("Don't > discriminate between high/low art.") and low opinions ("Some forms > of art are better than others.")? Or do these rules about not > discriminating only apply to the value of art and not to the value > of opinions about art? wow, what an intensely postmodern attitude. it's good to not have opinions about anything. kate. --part1_8a.1135c36d.29526ddd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/19/01 4:23:34 PM Central Standard Time, keithmar@msn.com writes:


Why should we then discriminate between high opinions ("Don't
discriminate between high/low art.") and low opinions ("Some forms
of art are better than others.")? Or do these rules about not
discriminating only apply to the value of art and not to the value
of opinions about art?



wow, what an intensely postmodern attitude.  it's good to not have opinions about anything.

kate.



 --part1_8a.1135c36d.29526ddd_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonas Leddington Subject: RE: What's Good For The Goose........ Date: 19 Dec 2001 18:00:05 -0500 > Zorn's outlook on elitism is a sensitive issue. He does not discriminate > between high/low art and conservatory-trained/self-taught. Nor should > we, in my opinion. > Why should we then discriminate between high opinions ("Don't > discriminate between high/low art.") and low opinions ("Some forms > of art are better than others.")? Or do these rules about not > discriminating only apply to the value of art and not to the value > of opinions about art? I think specificity or perspicuity is very important here. One might say that some art is better than other art in certain ways. Talking in absolutes damns us from the get-go (of course, I contradict myself). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D Dvb" Subject: Circle Paris Concert Date: 19 Dec 2001 15:03:22 -0800 I ordered it direct from the ECM website....the price was actually quite reasonable considering that it's a double CD set and that it was sent from Germany. Whether or not it's worth it, it doesn't grab my attention when it's on so I can't really say. -- davy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brian Olewnick" Subject: Favorites from 2001 Date: 19 Dec 2001 18:14:46 -0500 Enormous amount of wonderful and amazing discs this year. I've bought more than ever before, I'm pretty sure, and have still missed a bunch, some of which probably appeared on Caleb's list, for example the Bernard Gunter. But, my faves were: Rowe/Nakamura Weather Sky (easily my favorite of the year and, I imagine, one that'll stand a good chance of making some ultimate desert island list. Great, great record.) Anthony Braxton Composition 247 AMM Fine (this is provisional as I've only been able to listen a few times, but I'm pretty sure it ranks high) Perlonex Peripherique Rowe/Beins Grain Barry Guy Inscape/Tableaux Durrant/Lehn/Malfatti dach Chevalier/Havard/Ottavi/Rowe [N:Q] Nakamura/Sachiko M do MIMEO Electric Chair & Table Very honorable mentions, all of them excellent recordings, imho: Filament 29092000 Neumann/Nakamura Aton Charles/Doneda/Muller Direct Chamber Fuhler/Prins The Flirts Kelley/Lescalleet Forlorn Green Sugimoto/Drumm Den Olivia Block Mobius Fuse Mats Gustafsson Hidros One Otomo Yoshihide Anode Tetreault/Charles MXCT John Wall Constructions V-VII Ielasi/Sciajno Right After Barry Guy Odyssey Efzeg Grain Rolf Julius (halb) schwarz Axel Dorner Trumpet Dafeldecker/Hegenbart Eis 9 Neumann/Krebs Rotophormen Dorner/Drumm Dorner/Drumm Fred Frith Clearing Schick/Neumann Petit Pale Stilluppsteypa/TV Pow We Are Everyone in the Room Marchetti/Voice Crack Double Wash John Butcher Fixations (14) Johansson/Dorner/Neumann Barcelona Series Poire_z Presque Chic Some great issues of older, largely unreleased music: Iskra 1903 Chapter One Braxton Quintet (Basel) 1977 Coltrane The Olatunji Concert Miles Live at the Fillmore East Terry Riley You're No Good Eddie Prevost Silver Pyramid Cornelius Cardew The Great Learning Globe Unity Orchestra 67-70 And easily garnering Label of the Year honors for the second year running, our own Jon Abbey's Erstwhile. Eight releases, all of them at least excellent, several great and next year's schedule looks just as strong. Congrats, Jon. Brian Olewnick NP: AMM - Fine - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" Subject: Re: top 10 list : 2001 Date: 19 Dec 2001 15:15:19 -0800 Ten New Songs - Leonard Cohen - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Tricky Date: 19 Dec 2001 15:37:14 -0800 On Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:28:02 -0500 "Andrew" wrote: > > > That is totally true. After MAXINQUAYE everybody said that he was getting > > too weird, then he comes up with BLOWBACK which feautures RED HOT CHILI > > PEPPERS, ALANIS MORRISSETTE, CINDY LAUPER, the singer from LIVE, etc. (but > > like you said it still sounds TRICKY) and people hate it too because it's > > TOO commercial. What do people want? > > Howabout a solid, quality album like "maxinquaye' or "pre-millenial > tension"? > > "Juxtapose" and "Blowback" have been Tricky's attempts to "break into the > american MTV/mainstream market" and to "be more accessible to a radio > audience", by "getting rid of factors that people aren't comfortable > listening to." Where do I get these quotes? I interviewed Tricky this > summer, and could hardly believe what I was hearing! The possibility that the artist practice provocation by giving you what you are starving for (you don't like what he is doing now and he is giving you the weapon to beat him with) does not cross your mind? I am saying that because Tricky does not appear like a model of understatement in his interviews. I would take what he says with a big grain of salt. BTW, for what magazine did you interview him? I guess if Boulez had told you that opera houses should be blown away you would have stayed away from them :-). Anyway, since Tricky is not John Cage or Derek Bailey (to mention two artists that do not play the audience) and his music has always been quite catchy, I am not sure that I detect the significant gap that you see between MAXINQUAYE and BLOW BACK. BLOW BACK is more commercial than MAXINQUAYE? I guess, and so what? Commercial does not mean always bad, and obscure is often obscure for the obvious reason (bad). But you will have a hard time to convince anybody on the list that MAXINQUAYE is an obscure record that requires multiple listening to get it. Maybe it is simply that you are more familiar with his music now and that his style has not really changed. What used to be new for you is not anymore. > The two aforementioned albums are horrible; they're just bad. "Juxtapose" is > suppsed to be his "accessible mainstream hip hop album" (of course, even as > such it falls flat) and "Blowback" was his attempt to appeal to the "adult > contemporary" market. > > Fuck that. Tricky sold out- and I hate saying "sellout." Sold out? Was he ever really obscure? Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Kowalski" Subject: Lynch film sndtrk? / best of 2001 Date: 19 Dec 2001 18:54:01 -0500 Opinions on the soundtrack for Mullholland Drive anyone? Haven't seen = film yet.. Best of 2001: =20 Alison Krauss & Union Station: New Favorite (suspect this is considered = pop-territory fluff by long time die hard fans, but ahh, that voice those = tunes...) Coronet Priemers: Ry Cooder style lounge music - way way cool Tortoise: Cupping the Monkey's chin single (so so, but I've memory block = on what was released this year.) Other than latest Zorn Filmworks, was there any other releases out there I = missed? Really? I need more floor space. wink wink Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Sharrock/Iron Path Date: 16 Dec 2001 10:48:28 +0000 >From: "William York" >I also read in a great, very in-depth interview with Sharrock in Guitar >Player magazine (!) from like 1990 that he is on Miles Davis' 'Tribute to >Jack Johnson' towards the end of the second track, and listening to it that >makes sense. Apolgies if this is common knowledge, but he is uncredited on >that album ... Yes, this is true. Sonny also plays on Material's "Memory Serves." Generally, I agree with the recommendations here, but I think Sonny's worst records are "High Life" and "Live in New York." I liked "Iron Path" but I think it was badly recorded. Those who think that it has Laswell's signature glossy production must have cotton in their ears. This is probably the worst engineered album in his entire oeuvre. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: Brant/Varese/Villa-Lobos/Piazzolla Date: 20 Dec 2001 00:13:25 +0000 >From: "serge dautricourt" >It was a real treat to see "Deserts" live. . . truly a haunting >masterpiece. Wow, what a rare treat, to hear Deserts (or any Varese for that matter!) live, one of the great works of the 21st century, along with Ameriques... _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cameron Wood" Subject: top ten Date: 19 Dec 2001 16:15:58 -0800 I haven't got much this year, school's been heaps busy and all that. Most of what I did get revolves around Mr.Bungle and it's members. No particular order :) "The Director's Cut" - Fantomas (plus Fantomas live @ Governor Hindmarsh Aug23rd) "Book M" - Secret Chiefs 3 "drukqs" - Aphex Twin "Tomahawk" - Tomahawk (this one grew on me) "Jazz In Paris: Django's Blues" - Django Reinhardt "Music To Make Love To Your Old Lady By" - Lovage "La Serpenta Canta" - Diamanda Galas (live back in January) "Ambient Vol 2.5 Push Her [trip]" - r.domain "The Good Time Buddies EP" - Paul Of Blood Wow, not even ten. Later, Cameron. Do you hate clowns? Get Free Email & Free Websites at http://www.ihateclowns.com Buy anti-clown mugs, hats, mousepads, boxers, etc : http://store.ihateclowns.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Lynch film sndtrk? / best of 2001 Date: 19 Dec 2001 19:36:38 EST In a message dated Wed, 19 Dec 2001 6:55:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Bob Kowalski" writes: > Opinions on the soundtrack for Mullholland Drive anyone? Haven't seen film yet.. > > Best of 2001: > > Alison Krauss & Union Station: New Favorite (suspect this is considered pop-territory fluff by long time die hard fans, but ahh, that voice those tunes...) > Krauss could sing "Pop Goes The Weasel" and make it sound divine. I've never heard a more *pleasing* voice than hers in my life. -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: my top 10 list / DAVID LYNCH Date: 19 Dec 2001 16:44:03 -0800 > > In a message dated 12/19/01 4:23:29 PM, nilugo@usa.net writes: > > << In january you will be able to buy > the DVDs for ERASERHEAD >> > > any more details on this? it doesn't seem possible to access any info on > Lynch's web site without becoming a paying member. will you have to order it > through him, or will all the normal outlets have it? > > Jon > www.erstwhilerecords.com > > - > One detail -- you can see my old apartment in a few exterior shots (it was shot in the Northern Liberties section of Philly). skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: What's Good For The Goose........ Date: 19 Dec 2001 16:45:26 -0800 > I think specificity or perspicuity is very important here. One might say > that some art is better than other art in certain ways. > Yeah, but depending on what neighborhood you're in, even calling the stuff "art" might be, well, a bad endorsement. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: my top 10 list / DAVID LYNCH Date: 19 Dec 2001 17:24:23 EST In a message dated 12/19/01 4:23:29 PM, nilugo@usa.net writes: << In january you will be able to buy the DVDs for ERASERHEAD >> any more details on this? it doesn't seem possible to access any info on Lynch's web site without becoming a paying member. will you have to order it through him, or will all the normal outlets have it? Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" Subject: What's Good For The Goose........ Date: 19 Dec 2001 14:21:04 -0800 > Zorn's outlook on elitism is a sensitive issue. He does not discriminate > between high/low art and conservatory-trained/self-taught. Nor should > we, in my opinion. Why should we then discriminate between high opinions ("Don't discriminate between high/low art.") and low opinions ("Some forms of art are better than others.")? Or do these rules about not discriminating only apply to the value of art and not to the value of opinions about art? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: Tricky Date: 19 Dec 2001 21:46:42 -0400 >What do people want? (from TRICKY) Howabout a solid, quality album like "maxinquaye' or "pre-millenial tension"? TRICKY has said that he won't repeat his formula, he likes to move on ... and I think that with BLOWBACK he's done a very good "commercial" album with that TRICKY vibe. I remember he said that BLOW BACK was THE album MAXINQUAYE fans were waiting for. I have to say that I disagree because it's obviously not the same atmosphere, but it has the same "catchiness", if you know what I mean. Anyway that's just my opinion. I have to admit that one of my favourite TRICKY albums is ANGELS WITH DIRTY FACES, one of his most difficult ones, but BLOW BACK is a solid commercial release. Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. JAMES - pleased to meet you - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: Lynch film sndtrk? / best of 2001 Date: 19 Dec 2001 21:46:40 -0400 Opinions on the soundtrack for Mullholland Drive anyone? Haven't seen film yet.. It's another solid excellent Badalamenti/Lynch album. Some of Badalamenti's pieces are his most atmospheric, very dense and sometimes long. The are three songs from Lynch's upcoming project BLUE BOB (with his sound engineer John Neff). The songs are (like I said before) like the song PINK ROOM in the Twin Peaks FWWM Soundtrack, kind of slow, brutal, 50s atmosphere, lots of twangy guitar and some great studio effects. I'm really looking forth to this album. Like BLUE VELVET, LOST HIGHWAY and WILD AT HEART you can also find songs by other artists, in this case LINDA SCOTT with "Why haven't I told you", the typical 50s girl group song that Lynch loves. There are also some blues songs by Sonny Boy Williamson and somebody else I can't remember right now. If you like Lynch/Badalamenti, then get it, it's great. Oh, and I haven't seen the film yet, either. Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. JAMES - pleased to meet you - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: my top 10 list / DAVID LYNCH Date: 19 Dec 2001 21:46:38 -0400 > any more details on this? it doesn't seem possible to access any info on > Lynch's web site without becoming a paying member. will you have to order it > through him, or will all the normal outlets have it? --------------------------- Yes, you have to pay to see all the great stuff that Lynch has on his websites, but the STORE will be open for everybody when it's available in january. Don't worry, you will be able to buy everything, the DVDs, the CDs, paintings, etc. Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. JAMES - pleased to meet you (I really like this album :-) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: What's Good For The Goose........ Date: 20 Dec 2001 02:30:59 +0000 >From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" >Subject: What's Good For The Goose........ > > > Zorn's outlook on elitism is a sensitive issue. He does not >discriminate > > between high/low art and conservatory-trained/self-taught. Nor >should > > we, in my opinion. > >Why should we then discriminate between high opinions ("Don't >discriminate between high/low art.") and low opinions ("Some forms >of art are better than others.")? Or do these rules about not >discriminating only apply to the value of art and not to the value >of opinions about art? Or between bad readings (not discriminating between high and low art means that one isn't discriminating) and good readings (so-called "anti-art" categories like "pop," "heavy metal," "rap," "blues," "bluegrass," or "swing" [to invoke an older problem of discrimination] are as worthy of the category of "art" as any classical symphony or free jazz excursion--no genrecide in other words. Or, in another instance, where all judgment is conditioned not by "timeless," "universal" aesthetic values, but rather something more mundane--like what sounds good, feels good, jives with one's history, experience, sensibility, channeled ghosts, drug of choice, real or imagined, what a respected writer told one to like, or a quivering feeling of loneliness in a crowd of consensus, etc. etc.). (You see, Skip, we agreed all along. As for you, Floyd, you're not reading--again). NP: Muslimgauze, Gun Aramaic, Soleilmoon _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: What's Good For The Goose........ Date: 19 Dec 2001 18:46:16 -0800 > > Or between bad readings (not discriminating between high and low art means > that one isn't discriminating) and good readings (so-called "anti-art" > categories like "pop," "heavy metal," "rap," "blues," "bluegrass," or > "swing" [to invoke an older problem of discrimination] are as worthy of the > category of "art" as any classical symphony or free jazz excursion--no > genrecide in other words. Or, in another instance, where all judgment is > conditioned not by "timeless," "universal" aesthetic values, but rather > something more mundane--like what sounds good, feels good, jives with one's > history, experience, sensibility, channeled ghosts, drug of choice, real or > imagined, what a respected writer told one to like, or a quivering feeling > of loneliness in a crowd of consensus, etc. etc.). (You see, Skip, we agreed > all along. As for you, Floyd, you're not reading--again). > > NP: Muslimgauze, Gun Aramaic, Soleilmoon > Bill -- you're right. And until there's an objective way to actually figure out the good stuff from the bad (we all know that Garth Brooks is bad, there's just no scientific data to prove it intrinsically), there's no room for anyone to trot out something like a "universal aesthetic value". If there were, and it could actually be enforced as some kind of currency based on what's right, Dave Douglas would be rich as sin, Earl Scruggs would be Minister Of Inventive American Ingenuity, and Bjork would be homeless. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Pierre=20Toussaint?= Subject: zorn on the radio Date: 19 Dec 2001 21:45:06 -0500 (EST) For you folks living in Canada, on the 30th of december, this concert will be aired on the Navire Night (21h30) on the french radio of the CBC. "Le concert de clôture du FIMAV 2001, mettant en vedette le célèbre saxophoniste New-Yorkais JOHN ZORN, le bassiste BILL LASWELL, le guitariste FRED FRITH et le batteur DAVE LOMBARDO. Enregistré le 21 mai 2001." http://radio-canada.ca/radio/navire/ Pierre __________________________________________________________ Obtenez votre adresse @yahoo.ca gratuite et en français ! courriel.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: What's Good For The Goose........ Date: 19 Dec 2001 19:22:44 -0800 >> And until there's an objective way to actually figure >> out the good stuff from the bad (we all know that Garth Brooks is bad, >> there's just no scientific data to prove it intrinsically > > We need to "unlearn" "scientific objectivity" for starters--it was never > there to begin with. Second of all, we "agree" that Garth Brooks is bad. > We don't "know" it. That's a big difference. We operate in a like-minded > (mostly) community of listeners that agree on certain things, whatever the > category we invoke--harmonic sense, musical articulation, etc. But these > categories are also ones we agree on. One of the reasons though I like a > lot of the newer electroacoustic improv is that a lot of these categories > aren't relevant over there, which doesn't mean you can't have your nice, > bluegrass pickin' too. Keyword -- WE -- meaning US AROUND HERE. The rest of the world doesn't give us much credibility as tastemakers. I doubt that there are three Celine Dion records owned in all the Zorn-friendly community, but THEY -- the mainstream world -- agree that Celine, Mariah, and of course Whitney are "the greatest singers." (That buzzing sound is Donny Hathaway spinning in his grave). skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: What's Good For The Goose........ Date: 20 Dec 2001 03:22:01 +0000 >And until there's an objective way to actually figure >out the good stuff from the bad (we all know that Garth Brooks is bad, >there's just no scientific data to prove it intrinsically We need to "unlearn" "scientific objectivity" for starters--it was never there to begin with. Second of all, we "agree" that Garth Brooks is bad. We don't "know" it. That's a big difference. We operate in a like-minded (mostly) community of listeners that agree on certain things, whatever the category we invoke--harmonic sense, musical articulation, etc. But these categories are also ones we agree on. One of the reasons though I like a lot of the newer electroacoustic improv is that a lot of the usual categories for evaluation aren't as relevant over there (e.g. Keith Rowe plays radio), which doesn't mean you can't have your nice, bluegrass pickin' to go with your conceptually divergent musical articulation. (Whoops, double negatives--but it was the only way to go with that sentence). _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: best of 2001 Date: 19 Dec 2001 20:06:30 -0800 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Skip Heller > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 6:46 PM > there's no room > for anyone to trot out something like a "universal aesthetic value". If > there were, and it could actually be enforced as some kind of > currency based > on what's right, Dave Douglas would be rich as sin, Earl Scruggs would be > Minister Of Inventive American Ingenuity, and Bjork would be homeless. On that note, here's a list of the best stuff I heard all year (some are old), which is probably too pop for the Zorn list: - Bird: Bird - Bjork: Vespertine - Bjork and Trio Gudmundar Ingolfssonar: Gling-Glo - Deltron: 3030 - "In the Mood for Love" soundtrack - Lazy Dog: Lazy Dog - "O, Brother Where Art Thou" soundtrack - Trees: On the Shore - v/a, The Story of Jamaican Music Book: - James Ellroy, "American Tabloid" Movie: - Wong Kar-Wai's "In the Mood for Love" I think I OD'd on Zorn, Haino and Kawabata this year... But two Bjork albums! Later, Ben http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/ ICQ/AIM: thewilyfilipino - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Revue des Fossiles" Subject: Re: What's Good For The Goose........ Date: 19 Dec 2001 21:31:40 -0800 . . . damn, this dialogue on aesthetics has really harshed a kantian sublimity buzz that i've been on for the past few days. and to think that i was so close to apprehending the ding-an-sich i was beginning to appreciate pink's latest chart topper and 6 hour phase compositions! the horror . . . - rdf. np. fad gadget - luxury. nr. ralph wehowsky - assorted articles. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" Subject: Re: What's Good For The Goose........ Date: 19 Dec 2001 22:16:29 -0800 >>>As for you, Floyd, you're not reading--again<<< You do good work with straw, man. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" Subject: Re: What's Good For The Goose........ Date: 19 Dec 2001 22:21:20 -0800 >>>Bjork would be homeless.<<< As long as I have house, Bjork will never be homeless. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" Subject: Re: What's Good For The Goose........ Date: 19 Dec 2001 22:22:47 -0800 >>>it's good to not have opinions about anything.<<< Wrong list. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Revue des Fossiles" Subject: Re: Madness, Love & Mysticism Date: 19 Dec 2001 22:39:45 -0800 >I just got "Love, Madness and Mysticism." I like it a lot. like a lot of >zorn, its so full of new ideas, its going to take me a while to aborbs them >all. The musicians are incredible. What do other zorn listers think of >this one? i was eagerly looking forward to this release, especially given jeni's review of the debut of 'le momo.' i do like the three performances quite a bit, but was a little disappointed with . . . i suppose the lack of intensity in 'le momo?' i can appreciate the 'trills' being symbolic of the shock therapy to which artaud was subjected, but i'd really like to hear this piece arranged for a full orchestra. artaud is a touchy subject for me, and i feel that zorn's previous student film soundtrack for a happening based on one of artaud's works is a much more fitting tribute to antonin's legacy. 'hermetic theatre,' on the otherhand is on my top ten list for 2001. - rdf. np. - fad gadget - ricky's hand. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Nairn" Subject: my favorites of this year Date: 20 Dec 2001 06:59:41 Favorite cds I got this year (no particular order, some of these are old): Low - Things we lost in the fire Mercury Rev - All is Dream Bill Frisell - Bill Frisell Quartet Pan Sonic - Rude Mechanic Raincoats - Raincoats Bjork - Vespertine Aphex Twin - Drukqs Braxton - Tristano Compositions (Some of the solos on this are amazing) Sam Cooke - The Man and his Music Shivkumar Sharma/Zakir Hussain - Rag Madhuvanti/Tilang Massive Attack - Mezzanine Opal - Happy Nightmare Baby Favorite live shows: Spiritualized in Philadelphia (the most emotional thing I've ever seen) Laurie Anderson in Philadelphia (this was a couple days after sept. 11th and the lyrics for O Superman were suprisingly similar to the events e.g. "here come the planes, so you better get ready, ready to go ... this is the hand, the hand that takes ... cause when love is gone, there's always justice, and when justice is gone, there's always force ... They're American planes, made in america." the crowd went wild after that song, it was very emotional.) Mogwai - (I think this band is so much better live then on albums. It was very intense and loud) Melvins - (this show was also intense and loud, and went on for a while. It drove the crowd angry) Book: Italio Calvino - If on a Winters Night a Traveler Movies: (This year I got around to watching a lot of movies) Tow Tywker's new film - Princess & the Warrior (He also did Run Lola Run, but this one is less gimmicky, and I think better) Jeunet's newest - Le Fabulex Destin d'Amelie Poulain Muholland Dr. (I was slightly disappointed by this because of how it seemed like a miniseries the first half and not the second.) Man Who Wasn't There (new Coen Brothers) Svankmajer's Faust Godard's Weekend The Cabinet of Dr. Caliagri David Cronenberg's eXistenZ AI (To really like this movie I had to look past the goofy heartwarming speilberg touches, and I found that I really liked it. mainly the atmosphereic and visual aspects of it .) -Andrew Nairn _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kris Visser" Subject: Music Romance Date: 20 Dec 2001 08:32:12 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C18930.D29B1960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just bought "The Gift" and the OBI strip says that it's "the third = release in Zorn's challenging Music Romance series". I was trying to = find out on www.tzadik.com what the other cd's in the Music Romance = series were, but I can't find it. Can anyone here help? Are the other = two in the same easy listenable style as "The Gift"? Thanks, Kris ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C18930.D29B1960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I just bought "The Gift" and the = OBI strip=20 says that it's "the third release in Zorn's challenging Music Romance = series". I=20 was trying to find out on www.tzadik.com=20 what the other cd's in the Music Romance series were, but I can't find = it. Can=20 anyone here help? Are the other two in the same easy listenable style as = "The=20 Gift"?
 
Thanks,
Kris
 
------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C18930.D29B1960-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Music Romance Date: 20 Dec 2001 18:34:29 +1100 The other two are "Music For Children" and "Taboo and Exile", in that order. They are not the same style as "The Gift", rather I see them as 'best of's in a sense (not that they contain the best material, just a reasonable cross section of Zorn's styles). Number 1 has some Naked City-ish stuff, Bar Kokhba-ish stuff, chamber stuff, etc... and Number 2 has some noisy rock stuff with Laswell, Lombardo and co, some more Bar Kokhba-ish stuff, etc... I wouldn't class either of them as ground-breaking but they're good for a few listens. Number 2 has a bit more mileage than 1 from my experience... << I just bought "The Gift" and the OBI strip says that it's "the third release in Zorn's challenging Music Romance series". I was trying to find out on www.tzadik.com what the other cd's in the Music Romance series were, but I can't find it. Can anyone here help? Are the other two in the same easy listenable style as "The Gift"? >> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: What's Good For The Goose........ Date: 19 Dec 2001 23:48:31 -0800 (PST) --- Revue des Fossiles < > nr. ralph wehowsky - assorted articles. On or by? Where? ------s, on an RLW kick, spilling coffee all over self __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Fwd: Music Romance Date: 20 Dec 2001 09:40:30 +0100 (CET) Hi, > > I just bought "The Gift" and the OBI strip says that > it's "the third release in Zorn's challenging Music > Romance series". I was trying to find out on > www.tzadik.com what the other cd's in the Music > Romance series were, but I can't find it. Can anyone > here help? Are the other two in the same easy > listenable style as "The Gift"? The two other releases from that series are "Music for Children" and "Taboo and Exile". They are also very "listeanable", maybe not as much as "The Gift" but two of Zorn's most accessible works, IMHO. The two first releases from the Music Romance Series are much better than the latest, I think. Best, Efrén _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Nick=20Cain?= Subject: RE: James Date: 20 Dec 2001 08:42:42 +0000 (GMT) Pointless James trivia (speaking as someone who has always loathed them and was consequently very embarrassed to develop a rather irrational crush on their 'Fred Astaire' song three years ago): the band recently played their final show at Wembley Arena - they've now split up, as frontman Tim Booth is leaving the group to go run a consciousness-altering new age workshop in the Canary Islands called "The Dolphin Connection Experience". All true, I'm afraid... --- "Neil H. Enet" wrote: > -------------- > Was it just me, or was this this about the dullest > thing you've ever heard? > I honestly wasn't expecting a lot out of it though, > after how completely > wonderful I thought Millionaires was - not that most > Americans ever heard > it, much less knew it existed. > ---------------- > > I actually like it very much, even more than > MILLIONAIRES, although they are > both great albums. But to me, they both sound very > similar, same vibe. > Anyway, be sure to check the new B-SIDES album, I > understand it's a very > good compilation. > > Neil H. Enet > ------------ > > NP. FAITH NO MORE - album of the year > > > - > ===== www.info.net.nz/opprobrium __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Fwd: Re: my top 10 list / DAVID LYNCH Date: 20 Dec 2001 09:53:54 +0100 (CET) Hi, > << In january you will be able to buy > the DVDs for ERASERHEAD >> > > any more details on this? it doesn't seem possible > to access any info on > Lynch's web site without becoming a paying member. > will you have to order it > through him, or will all the normal outlets have it? I don't think there should be any problems to get this stuff from normal stores. In Spain a first three-DVD collection was already released just a couple of months ago, although the choices were not the best: THE ELEPHANT MAN, DUNE, THE STRAIGHT STORY (not too representative of his work, IMHO). If there are collections in Spain, just imagine out there!! Also, the entire VHS TWIN PEAKS COLLECTION was released about a year ago and I was clever enough to buy it. I've watched the series 3 times in a row. I forgot to include LYNCH ON LYNCH among my favorite readings of the year. Just amazing. No Zorn content, BTW. Best, Efrén del Valle _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ricardo Reis Subject: 2001 list Date: 20 Dec 2001 09:16:32 +0000 (WET) sorry, things are busy, just made a cut through the stuff i've bought this year and left what thoughted better (or which turned my head more than 5 times listening): John Zorn / Naked City Radio Sarah Vaughan Sarah Vaughan Stan Getz/Joco Gilberto Getz/Gilberto Tony Scott Music for Zen meditation Ennio Morricone A fistful of sounds Dr. Frankenstein The lost tapes from Dr. Frankenstein lab Rita Hayworth Rita Hayworth John Coltrane Coltranology Vol.1 Thelonious Monk Brilliant corners Louis Armstrong Hot 5s and Hot 7s Louis Armstrong Hot 5s and Hot 7s Marilyn Monroe Marylin Monroe - complete recordings Nvel Akchoti Alike Joseph Boredoms Soul discharge '99 O.S.T. In the mood for love Bebel Gilberto Tanto tempo Max Nagl The evil garden O.S.T. Touch of Evil John Zorn The Big Gundown John Zorn The gift Fantomas Director's cut Kodo Tsutsumi David Shea Hsi-Yu Chi Dean Elliott Zounds! What sounds! Herb Robertson Transparency Rechenzentrum The John Peel sessions Freeform Audioturism - Vietnam and China greets, Ricardo Reis "Non Serviam" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nirav Soni" Subject: tops o' charts Date: 20 Dec 2001 04:13:56 -0500 I'll post this before people stop reading them. Olivia Block- Mobius Fuse (Sedimental) Antenna Farm- fog/splinter (early mess) (Phthalo) Phoenecia- Brownout (Schematic) Lionel Marchetti/Jèrome Noetinger- Mort Aux Vaches (Staalplaat) Phillip Jeck- Vinyl Coda IV (Intermedium) Michael Gira/Daniel Matz- What We Did (Young God) Joan of Arc- How Can Anything So Little be Any More? (Jade Tree) bonnie 'prince' billie- Get On Jolly (did this come out last year? oh well...) Jonathon Coleclough- Period (Anomalous) Hands To- Turn Back the Sun (Manifold) (reissue) Discordance Axis- The Inalienable Dreamless (Hydra Head) Tetuzi Akiyama/Taku Sugimoto/Bo Widget- Periodic Drift (Corpus Hermeticum) John Butcher/Xavier Charles/Axel Dorner- The Contest of Pleasures (Potlach) Phil Durrant/Thomas Lehn/Radu Malfatti- Dach (Erstwhile) Giuseppe Ielasi/Domenico Scianjo- Right After (Erstwhile) Utah Kawasaki/Tetuzi Akiyama/Jason Kahn- Luwa (Rossbin) Perlonex- Perpherique (Zarek) Toshimaru Nakamura/Sachiko M- Do (Erstwhile) Toshimaru Nakamura/Keith Rowe- Weather Sky (Erstwhile) Andrea Neumann/Toshimaru Nakamura- Aton (Rossbin) Keith Rowe/Burkhard Beins- Grain (Zarek) Martin Tètreault/Xavier Charles- MXCT (Vand'Oeuvre) BERNHARD GUNTER- Then, Silence (Trent Oiseaux) Brandon Labelle- Automatic Radio (Fringes) Ralf Wehowsky/Kevin Drumm- Cases (Selektion) Polwechsel-3 (Durian) most everything I bought on vinyl isn't on the list, b/c I can't remember what came out this year, and I'm a long way from my records. Why so few records with tunes on them? I dunno...I guess I have no heart/soul. It was a pretty fuckin cold year anyways (emotionally...not really climate-wise). Best shows- Black Dice at the Knitting factory a few days ago Neuman/Kelley/Dorner/Rainey John Butcher/Phil Durrant Jim O'Rourke at Tonic for Insignifigance The Fall in Love at the Luxx Steve Roden/Taylor Deupree/Richard Chartier Low (in NY and Jersey) the Pietasters Movies of the year (that came out this year): Werkmeister Harmonies- Bela Tarr Code Unknown: Incomplete Tales of Several Journeys- Michael Haneke "Into the Light" exhibition at the Whitney Waking Life- Richard Linklater Dream Work (For Man Ray)- Peter Tscherkassy The Pleasures of Reading (Lost and Found)- David Gatten Time Being- Andrew Noren Hybrid- Monteith McCollum Operator Kaufman- Rasmus Gerlach Little Otik- Jan Svankmajer (a huge chunk of the NYFF "Views from the Avant-Garde") The Royal Tennenbaums- Wes Anderson What I didn't see (in terms of movies) for varied reasons Mulholland Dr. Fat Girl La Cienaga- Graciela Borges Tape- Richard Linklater Did ABC Africa come out in the US? I noticed it on someone's list...any thoughts about it? Comparisons to other Kiarostami work? Huge, huge film recommendation for y'all....Jan Svankmajer's "Conspirators of Pleasure", it's complex, hilarious, incisive, satiracal, and all round wonderful. Very, very complex use of sound, but no dialogue! fancy that... Nirav -- AIM: Icefactory37 "Duration is to the consciousness as light is to the eye" - Bill Viola - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ricardo Reis Subject: Re:islamic roots music (no downtown content) Date: 20 Dec 2001 09:29:20 +0000 (WET) don't know if you're answered yet but maybe this article would be of interest. it was published in Aramco World: http://www.saudiaramco.com/publications/saworld/mar_apr2001/p32to37.pdf it has some stuff to which i don't agree but as i'm lacking of knowledge on the area i can't refute them. greets, Ricardo Reis "Non Serviam" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: My Top 10 for 2001 Date: 20 Dec 2001 11:10:08 +0100 Don't think I've actually bought any groundbreaking new stuff, but here's a list anyways... Fantomas, The Director's Cut, Ipecac Jeff Mills, Every Dog Has Its Day, Axis Drahdiwaberl, Torte Statt Worte, Virgin John Zorn, The Gift, Tzadik Iannis Xenakis, Chamber Music 1955 - 1990, Naive Montaigne Huun-Huur-Tu, The Orphan's Lament, Jaro Medien The Melvins, The Bootlicker, Ipecac Missing Persons, Color In Your Life, Capitol Kazue Sawai Koto Ensemble, Live In Bremen, Da Capo Ustad Alla Rakha & Zakir Hussain, Tabla Duet, Moment Body Count, Body Count, Sire King Tubby & Soul Syndicate, Freedom Sounds In Dub, Blood And Fire Various, Select Cuts From Blood And Fire, Blood And Fire Miss Kittin & The Hacker, First Album, Int. DeeJay Gigolos (Plus all the repressings of Underground Resistance that I bought) Also I want to include my favourite books from this year: Horiyoshi III, 108 Heroes Of The Suikoden Michael McCabe, Tattooing New York City JT LeRoy, Sarah Yoshitoshi, One Hundred Aspects Of The Moon Yasunari Kawabata, Palm-Of-The-Hand Stories Haruki Murakami, Sputnik Sweetheart Hampton Hawes, Raise Up Off Me Toshio Saeki, The Early Works Jeoren Lamers, Japonius Tyrannus: Oda Nobunaga Spider Webb, Pushing Ink Phil Sparrow, Bad Boys & Tough Tattoos George Burchett, Memoirs Of A Tattooist Eiji Yoshikawa, Taiko Best live shows I attended: The Melvins, Zurich/Switzerland Jeff Mills (DJ), Zurich/Switzerland patRice - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: koncerts. Date: 20 Dec 2001 05:14:08 EST i didn't see so many concerts this year. however, taking the cake... 16 and 17 november 2001 kronos quartet... yeah, that was me front row center screaming after every song like a 13 year old at a backstreet boys concert. that was also me front row center asking obnoxious, obtuse questions. and yeah, that was me who got the crowd cheering after michael gordon's "potassium"... whee!! kp ----- nothing in moderation. (ernie kovacs) where there's a mission, there's a missionary. (jim altieri) k a t e p e t e r s o n composer / performer UFOrbK8@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Re: Fwd: Music Romance Date: 20 Dec 2001 12:08:09 +0100 Hi Efrén & everyone else... Again, Efrén, I disagree with you... ;-) I do love "The Gift", also think that "Taboo & Exile" has some fantastic moments, especially the hard-edged stuff... (And the cool, laid-back track feat. Ribot.) But "Music For Children" I personally feel is the weakest of the three CDs from the "Music Romance" series. The Naked City "Torture Garden"-era stuff, performed by Prelapse, I think sounds absolutely lame compared to anything performed by Naked City, and the chamber stuff feat. Winant I find to just be a bit artsy fartsy... (Couldn't think of a better word...) So, for the guy who asked the question that got this started, I think you'd be rather disappointed with "Music For Children" if you are expecting sthg similar to "The Gift". patRice np: Underground Resistance Back Catalogue nr: Alex Kerr, Lost Japan efrén del valle wrote: > > The two other releases from that series are "Music for > Children" and "Taboo and Exile". They are also very > "listeanable", maybe not as much as "The Gift" but two > of Zorn's most accessible works, IMHO. The two first > releases from the Music Romance Series are much better > than the latest, I think. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M Pathos" Subject: Re: Tricky Date: 20 Dec 2001 04:22:15 -0700 All Tricky's albums (not EPs, "appearances", etc) are pretty good, but the songs - and production - on Blowback surpass his most recent several efforts. I'd rate it as one of, if not THE best, pop album of the year. The whole argument about "selling out" is so tiresome. Anybody who doesn't give their music away and wants more than their mother to hear it is "selling" - it just depends if you want to make a living doing just music or stay forever an amateur. And I don't think Blowback was made in a cynical spirit of bad faith either, if that's what you mean. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew" Subject: Re: Tricky Date: 20 Dec 2001 06:35:22 -0500 > All Tricky's albums (not EPs, "appearances", etc) are pretty good, but the > songs - and production - on Blowback surpass his most recent several > efforts. I'd rate it as one of, if not THE best, pop album of the year. > The whole argument about "selling out" is so tiresome. Anybody who doesn't > give their music away and wants more than their mother to hear it is > "selling" - it just depends if you want to make a living doing just music or > stay forever an amateur. You guys really surprise me- but I'm not sure why. Has anyone ever noticed the trend amongst listeners of "highbrow" (cough) music to simply have no perspective when it comes to pop music? You guys remind me of one of my professors, who was a huge Jarre, Vangelis, Oldfield, Riley, etc. fan, yet thought that "if there's any rock band that's done anything decent in the past ten years, its' probably the Cranberries." "Blowback" is a horrible, terrible album. It's crap. On "Selling Out"- which is essentially the act of altering one's art (in a way that's usually contrary to the artist's wishes and/or goals) in order to be more accessible and therefore in order to make more $$. Tricky has made it ABUNDANTLY clear in interviews surrounding "Juxtapose" and "Blowback" that he's tired of making music that people don't buy; he only wants to make music that will sell "more units", so that he will make money. He's literally said things like "i just want to make music that will make me alot of money." And no, he's not being "funny" - he's serious. a. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew" Subject: Re: Music Romance Date: 20 Dec 2001 02:20:13 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00ED_01C188FC.DB08AEC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >I just bought "The Gift" and the OBI strip says that it's "the third = release in Zorn's challenging Music Romance series". I was trying >to = find out on www.tzadik.com what the other cd's in the Music Romance = series were, but I can't find it. Can anyone here help? >Are the other = two in the same easy listenable style as "The Gift"? The other two are "Volume 1: Music for children" (which is mostly a = bunch of skronk freakouts, and a looong wind machine piece), "Volume 2: = Taboo and Exile" (i like this one- there are a few tracks that resemble = "the gift", but there's also a hardcore track and a skronk-fest, as well = as some bizarre numbers).=20 If you're really feeling "The Gift", I say check out "Filmworks X", = which has a similar vibe and lineup. Also, another Flimworks (VII, = maybe?) for "port of last resort" has a very "Gift"-y vibe. Mark Ribot's = albums with the Cubanos Postizos are also in that same vibe. andrew ------=_NextPart_000_00ED_01C188FC.DB08AEC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>I just bought "The Gift" = and the OBI strip=20 says that it's "the third release in Zorn's challenging Music Romance = series". I=20 was trying >to find out on www.tzadik.com=20 what the other cd's in the Music Romance series were, but I can't find = it. Can=20 anyone here help? >Are the other two in the same easy listenable = style as=20 "The Gift"?
 
The other two are "Volume 1: Music for children" = (which is=20 mostly a bunch of skronk freakouts, and a looong wind machine piece), = "Volume 2:=20 Taboo and Exile" (i like this one- there are a few tracks that resemble = "the=20 gift", but there's also a hardcore track and a skronk-fest, as well as = some=20 bizarre numbers).
 
If you're really feeling "The Gift", I say check out = "Filmworks X", which has a similar vibe and lineup. Also, another = Flimworks=20 (VII, maybe?) for "port of last resort" has a very "Gift"-y vibe. Mark = Ribot's=20 albums with the Cubanos Postizos are also in that same = vibe.
 
andrew
 
------=_NextPart_000_00ED_01C188FC.DB08AEC0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: Tricky Date: 20 Dec 2001 08:59:24 -0400 The whole TRICKY problem is actually MAXINQUAYE's fault. I mean, since it was considered as a "classic" album in the trip hop genre, then anything he has done since is "crap". Analyze Portishead now, of course they only have two proper albums, but when the second self titled album came out, everyone said it wasn't better than DUMMY, their groundbreaking defining whatever. I mean, PORTISHEAD has not released any other album since 1997 (?), so people hasn't been that "aggressive" with them. And what about MASSIVE ATTACK? Blue Lines is the third installment of what's considered a trio of excellent trip hop albums, and the reviews say that non of the other two albums capture the spirit of the first one. So, when you make a "classic" album, you're basically cursed. Of course there are exceptions, but this is the common thing. Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. PORTISHEAD - dummy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= Subject: Re: Fwd: Music Romance Date: 20 Dec 2001 14:08:01 +0100 Hi Pat and everyone, PatRice wrote: > Again, Efrén, I disagree with you... ;-) I'm starting to think that you have a personal problem with me, Pat! :-)) > > I do love "The Gift", also think that "Taboo & Exile" has some fantastic > moments, especially the hard-edged stuff... (And the cool, laid-back > track feat. Ribot.) I think the main weakness of the Music Romance series is that they're not homogeneous at all. There's so much diversity in those albums (Masada tunes, NC stuff, chamber compositions, "rock"-oriented material, etc) that I find it fairly difficult for anyone to enjoy them in their entirety. At least it's what happens to me. However, my favorite is "Taboo & Exile" by far. > But "Music For Children" I personally feel is the weakest of the three > CDs from the "Music Romance" series. The Naked City "Torture Garden"-era > stuff, performed by Prelapse, I think sounds absolutely lame compared to > anything performed by Naked City, and the chamber stuff feat. Winant I > find to just be a bit artsy fartsy... (Couldn't think of a better > word...) Now I'm not sure if we discussed this before or it was with Patrice (the confusion is easy). The Prelapse interpretations of NC will never be enough for old NC fans. The original performers brought so much personality into Zorn's compositions (already personal by themselves) that any other performers will probably be perceived as mere imitators. NC are irreplaceable, IMHO. What's "artsy fartsy" please? Greetings, Efrén del Valle n.p: Tiny Bell Trio "Live in Europe" n.r: Keith Haring "Journals" _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Andy Marks Subject: Top CD's 2001 Date: 20 Dec 2001 05:15:42 -0800 (PST) Top CD's 2001 Sigur Ros - Agaetis Byrjun Secret Chiefs 3 - Book M Fantomas - Directors Cut Zorn - Filmworks X Zorn - The Gift Aphex Twin - Drukqs Robert Rich - Humidity __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Re: James Date: 20 Dec 2001 08:33:32 EST --part1_115.9b6522e.295342ac_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/20/01 3:43:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, npc_4@yahoo.co.uk writes: > Pointless James trivia (speaking as someone who has > always loathed them and was consequently very > embarrassed to develop a rather irrational crush on > their 'Fred Astaire' song three years ago): I'd read about Booth leaving on the band's website. And don't be emabarrassed about "Just Like Fred Astaire" - that song pushes every emotional button I have every time I hear it. Its just beautiful. Dale. --part1_115.9b6522e.295342ac_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/20/01 3:43:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, npc_4@yahoo.co.uk writes:


Pointless James trivia (speaking as someone who has
always loathed them and was consequently very
embarrassed to develop a rather irrational crush on
their 'Fred Astaire' song three years ago):


I'd read about Booth leaving on the band's website. And don't be emabarrassed about "Just Like Fred Astaire" - that song pushes every emotional button I have every time I hear it. Its just beautiful.

Dale. --part1_115.9b6522e.295342ac_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Best of 2001 Date: 20 Dec 2001 14:58:38 +0100 Releases: Buckethead / Colma Tosca / Fuck Dub John Zorn / The Gift 4 Walls / And The World Ain´t Square Irene Schweizer / Chicago Piano Solo Marc Ribot / Saints Fred Anderson Trio / At The Velvet Lounge Medeski, Martin & Wood / The Dropper Ellery Eskelin / Vanishing Point Fred Frith / Clearing Performances: Dave Douglas Tiny Bell Trio (Rüsselsheim 01-03-10) Sun Ra Arkestra (Weinheim 01-03-29) Nmperign (Wiesbaden 01-05-03) Marc Ribot Y Los Cubanos Postizos (Hamburg 01-07-06) Marilyn Crispell - Barry Guy - Raymond Strid (Nickelsdorf 01-07-20) Henry Threadgill Zooid (Saalfelden 01-08-24) Medeski, Martin & Wood w/ Marc Ribot & Marshall Allen (Saalfelden 01-08-25) Katrin Ex - Iva Bittova Duo (Wels 01-11-09) Melt Banana (Wels 01-11-10) Peter Brötzmann - Günter Sommer Duo (Mainz 01-11-22) Andreas _________________________________________________________________ Mit MSN Fotos können Sie problemlos Ihre Fotos ausdrucken und anderen Benutzern zur Verfügung stellen: http://photos.msn.de/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Re: my top 10 list / DAVID LYNCH Date: 20 Dec 2001 09:10:57 -0500 Hi all, I was going to post my list but I thought that I remembered that someone on this list was complaining about these things getting out of hand and becoming clutter. Definitely not me- I love them. At the very least, it's always interesting to see what people chose and it's also instructive to look at these and think 'I didn't even know that some of those things came out!' FYI, Other Music in NY has posted their top 10 lists for staff and contributors (mine is there too under G)- http://www.othermusic.com/2001top10.html I was happy that I actually found at least100 good releases for this year and about as many good reissues. Again, because of space reasons here, I'll hold back on posting but I'll have all of it up in our next issue at month's end. If anyone's really interested, I could post a list of items that would probably be of interest to zorn-list folk. Since Lynch is in the subect head, Mulholland Drive was one of the best films I've seen this year. Best, Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ricardo Reis Subject: In the mood for love Date: 20 Dec 2001 14:36:44 +0000 (WET) I've loved that movie (even "got" the poster in a murky 4 a.m. raid to the movie theater)... i'm looking forward to see the next from him, 2046 which he said should be considered with the former (like the two are in reality one). greets, Ricardo Reis "Non Serviam" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Tricky Date: 20 Dec 2001 10:20:54 EST my two cents on trip hop: <> if this is the actual critical consensus, it's one I'd agree with. I stopped paying attention to Tricky a few records ago, but I could live without all of his post-Maxinquaye output. for that matter, I only thought about half of the songs on that record worked, although the ones that did were brilliant. after Maxinquaye, I thought he fell victim to something I like to call Tarantino syndrome, meaning that everyone around you constantly tells you what a genius you are, publicly and privately, and you end up losing the ability to distinguish between what should be released publicly, and what should be trashed as a failed experiment (in Tarantino's case, the success of Pulp Fiction seems to have essentially ended his career, at least thus far, not that I know any of the real details). the fact that Tricky's second project was titled Nearly God says all you need to know here, I think. Aphex Twin's latest record seems to be another perfect example of this, not that I've heard that either. <> Portishead left themselves a tough row to hoe after releasing Dummy, which is a perfect, visionary record. they ended up doing quite a nice job, although it took years, and their second record is superb, not covering the exact same territory which would be easy to do. highly recommended, both of them. <> not sure what you mean here, since Blue Lines was Massive Attack's first disc, and also predated Portishead and Tricky's solo career. anyway, I'm a huge fan of all three MA records also, not to mention the superb Mad Professor remix of the second disc, No Protection. Tricky deserves critical flak in my book, having never come close to measuring up to the huge promise he showed on parts of Maxinquaye. I did see him play an amazing show, touring behind that record, opening for PJ Harvey, who had just released To Bring You My Love. superb, superb double bill, marking what may end up being both artists' career high points, although I still hold out hope for Harvey coming up with some more brilliance. I saw Tricky live twice more after that, and neither time was even half as compelling. on a mostly unrelated note: I think it's very cool that the Wu-Tang Clan decided to ignore conventional wisdom, and release their new full-length record this week. the majors almost never do this, since most records coming out in December tend to disappear into a black hole of vacations, holiday craziness and best-of lists. I haven't heard the new Wu yet, but it's going on soon. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Emmanouil Papagiannakis Subject: Re: Tricky Date: 20 Dec 2001 16:25:49 +0100 (MET) I wasn't a big fan of Tricky until ANGELS WITH DIRTY FACES which I think is his real masterpiece. The last couple of records I didn't really enjoy (I am working on BLOW BACK these days). A couple of weeks ago I saw him live and it was a bit weird, too much guitar, too much a "rock" sound. The encore was worth all the money though, slow, dark, no heavy guitar, real (my) tricky-style. Too bad it was only 10 minutes- I would have liked it to be 2 hours. manolis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Beardsley" Subject: Re: my top 10 list / DAVID LYNCH Date: 20 Dec 2001 10:39:41 -0500 Hey Jason, ----- Original Message ----- > Since Lynch is in the subect head, Mulholland Drive was one of the best films I've seen this year. The best film I've seen in a LONG time. * David Beardsley * http://biink.com * http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: (...top 10?) Date: 20 Dec 2001 17:04:50 +0100 >From: UFOrbK8@aol.com > >brian eno - music for airports / ambient 1 > so, not only did this album come out in 1978, but i've owned it for a >good six years. > i just put it on every list of my albums of the year because it's >probably my favourite > album of all time. enough so that i got the score for 1/1 tattooed on >my >stomach. this is unbelievable! please provide a photo on your website -:) Andreas np: Cecil Taylor Quartet / Nailed _________________________________________________________________ Testen Sie MSN Messenger für Ihren Online-Chat mit Freunden: http://messenger.msn.de - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonas Leddington Subject: Female Jazz Vocalist Recommendations Date: 20 Dec 2001 11:21:45 -0500 Greetings, I'm looking for female jazz vocal recordings, particularly any paradigms of a particular style or era. A good friend of mine seeks inspiration and guidance as she begins voice training. Her interests are broad, from Anita O'Day (think of her performance in the mesmerizing film "Jazz on a Summer's Day") to Lauryn Hill. Thoughts? Thanks in advance, Jonas - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: Re: Tricky Date: 20 Dec 2001 11:17:32 -0500 >(in Tarantino's case, the success of Pulp Fiction seems to have >essentially ended his career, at least thus far, not The worst part of it is that junk scripts like From Dusk to Dawn got produced. But in many ways Jackie Brown is a better film than Pulp Fiction, more mature and less flashy; certainly the weakest parts of Jackie Brown are the most "Tarrantino-ish." And the success of Pulp Fiction did let Miramax give QT his own boutique company that did released some worthy films (the first Wong Kar-Wai to come out in the US, Kitano's Sonatine) and some way-less-than-worthy (Jack Hill, Hardcore Logo). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" Subject: Re: Tricky Date: 20 Dec 2001 08:20:11 -0800 Yeah, I saw Tricky a few years back, and he was amazing. He would get going on a phrase and repeat and mutate it endlessly, and just when you thought he would stop, he would keep going on. Martine was with him, and proved to be quite a twisted angel foil to Tricky's demonic presence. But, even then, it seemed the audience came to dance. It WAS a dance hall. Just a few tables around the periphery. And they couldn't figure out how to respond to the music. So, Tricky sees a bunch of Zorn-listers sitting around the tables, entranced, smiling and sipping their beers. And he sees hundreds of frustrated listeners spread out before him. And he sacrifices us for them. We're pissed . Sellout motherfucker. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben Axelrad" Subject: best of (long) Date: 20 Dec 2001 10:27:19 -0600 CDs: R. Carl/B. Kunkel - Gold (awesome packaging) (no label) Jailhouse - Indigo/With Strings G. Heinz + European Powerbook Duo -- Trombone on MARS (For4Ears) M. Gira/D. Matz - What We Did (Young God) Angels of Light - How I Loved You (Young God) H. Holliger - Schneewittchen (ECM New Series) Veljo Tormis - Litany to Thunder (ECM New Series) Tinklers - Crash/Casserole (Shimmy Disc); Slowpoke Appendix Out - (Drag City) Songs: OHIA - Ghost (Secretly Canadian) Loren Chasse - Synthesis of Neglected Places (CD-R) Baby Dee - Little Window (Durtro) Barry Guy - Inescape/Tableux (Intakt) Lucas Niggli Zoom - Spawn of Speed (Intakt) Komet - Rausch (12k) Movies (I can't for the life of me remember what was released this year, so here's a small list): Donnie Darko (much better than Mulholland Drive, which I think is pretentious) Ghost World Together (Tilsammen) Books: Marx - Capital 1-3 (Essential!) (Penguin) Ernest Mandel - Late Capitalism (Verso) Erik Olin Wright - Classes (Verso) Jim Jarmusch: Interviews (repetitive but hilarious) (Mississippi) Raymond Federman - Aunt Rachel's Fur (FC2)/The Twofold Vibration (Green Integer) Joshua Haigh [Douglas Messerli] - Letters from Hanusse (Green Int) Fanny Howe - Indivisible (Semiotexte); Saving History (Sun & Moon) Alfred Doblin - Berlin Alexanderplatz (Continuum) Knut Hamsun - Under the Autumn Star/A Wanderer Plays on Muted Strings/On Overgrown Paths (Green Integer) Gertrude Stein - To Do (Green Integer) Thomas Bernhard - The Voice Imitator (U of Chicago) Johannes Bobrowski - Levin's Mill (New Directions) Robert Creeley - So There (New Directions) Lars Gustaffson - Tale of a Dog (New Directions) DVDs Dreyer box set (Criterion) The Tempest (Jarman) (Kino) Faust (F.W. Murnau) (Kino) Pioneers in Ingoldstat (Fassbinder) -- According to Ulli Lommel there will be a Fassbinder retrospective in 2002 (20th anniversary of his death). Does anyone have details? 8 1/2 (Fellini) (Criterion) Hitchhiker (Lupino) (Kino) Ben _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben Axelrad" Subject: Re: koncerts. Date: 20 Dec 2001 10:36:29 -0600 Oops, forgot concerts: Billy Bang/Abbey Radar -- music was amazing, and Billy was stoned and very amusing Kahlil El'Zabar's Ritual Trio f/Billy Bang -- Kahlil El'Zabar has got to be the coolest jazz musician alive (and he knows it), even if his drumming is not too varied. Billy Bang is fucking awesome. Loren Chasse/Jason Kahn/Richard Chartier -- L. Chasse had a contact mic and some plants, glass, sand, etc. Kahn restricted himself to laptop. Chartier was the weakest, but by that time I was tired and pissy and not in the mood for a S-L-O-W-L-Y developing piece. Christian Marclay/(some Japanese guy)/Bus Ratch -- Bus Ratch were really loud and annoying. Marclay and the Japanese guy were great. 2 turntables each, with a projection of the turntables on a movie screen from constantly shifting angles. Then a set with everybody (8 performers) which was very restrained. Ben >From: UFOrbK8@aol.com >To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com >Subject: koncerts. >Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 05:14:08 EST > >i didn't see so many concerts this year. however, taking the cake... > >16 and 17 november 2001 >kronos quartet... > > > >yeah, that was me front row center screaming after every song like a 13 >year >old at a backstreet boys concert. that was also me front row center asking >obnoxious, obtuse questions. and yeah, that was me who got the crowd >cheering after michael gordon's "potassium"... whee!! > >kp > > >----- >nothing in moderation. >(ernie kovacs) > >where there's a mission, there's a missionary. >(jim altieri) > > >k a t e p e t e r s o n >composer / performer >UFOrbK8@aol.com > >http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html > >- > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Is This It? Date: 20 Dec 2001 11:37:20 EST Based on the overwhelming critical and fandom praise of the Strokes, I went out and bought "Is This It" yesterday. I thought for sure that this was one release that would live up to the hype. While this is a good album of basic rock and roll songs, I can't believe that it's landing on everyone's best of 2001 lists. It is at best mediocre and at worst derivative of the Ramones, MC5 and the Velvet Underground. Please, someone on this list convince me that these guys deserve all the accolades. Hyped out, Tom ______________________________________________________________________ Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately, and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Revue des Fossiles" Subject: rlw Date: 20 Dec 2001 08:43:38 -0800 sorry, guess i should have been more explicit in my nr'ing. i was referring to a number of "articles" that came up through the auspices of a simple search on google. out of 648 results, i think i made it through 324, of which about 100 or so were writings from and about wehowsky that were new to my eyes, being mostly in russian. to the best of my knowledge there is no compendium of writings or definitive text on or by rlw, though his contributions to various selektion publications, numerous ndw zines (such as kaleidoskop), the 'site of sound: of architecture of the ear' book (errant bodies press); as well as the 'rehowsky on rehowsky' article (resonance volume 6 number 2 uk magazine - this may be online, i haven't checked)all offer up some excellent insights into rehowsky's aesthetic and help to better place him in the historical context of sound art. - rdf. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: Re: Tricky Date: 20 Dec 2001 11:45:28 EST --part1_93.15466e95.29536fa8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/20/2001 6:12:48 AM Central Standard Time, ahorton@vt.edu writes: > Tricky has made it ABUNDANTLY clear in interviews surrounding "Juxtapose" > and "Blowback" that he's tired of making music that people don't buy; he > only wants to make music that will sell "more units", so that he will make > money. He's literally said things like "i just want to make music that will > make me alot of money." > > And no, he's not being "funny" - he's serious. > > give the man a little credit. there is no way he said that in all seriousness... please... kp --part1_93.15466e95.29536fa8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/20/2001 6:12:48 AM Central Standard Time, ahorton@vt.edu writes:


Tricky has made it ABUNDANTLY clear in interviews surrounding "Juxtapose"
and "Blowback" that he's tired of making music that people don't buy; he
only wants to make music that  will sell "more units", so that he will make
money. He's literally said things like "i just want to make music that will
make me alot of money."

And no, he's not being "funny" - he's serious.



give the man a little credit.  there is no way he said that in all seriousness...  please...

kp --part1_93.15466e95.29536fa8_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: Re: Tricky Date: 20 Dec 2001 11:58:49 -0500 What's wrong about wanting to sell records? In the case of his music anyway I fail to see where the contradiction lies. At 11:45 20/12/01 -0500, you wrote: >give the man a little credit. there is no way he said that in all >seriousness... please... > >kp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: best of (long) Date: 20 Dec 2001 11:40:04 -0600 On Thu, Dec 20, 2001 at 10:27:19AM -0600, Ben Axelrad wrote: > The Tempest (Jarman) (Kino) That's out on DVD?! Be still, my screaming wallet... -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: smobipliap@netway.at Subject: 2001 performances Date: 20 Dec 2001 18:16:27 +0100 > Date:=A0Thu,=A020=A0Dec=A02001=A014:58:38=A0+0100 > From:=A0"Andreas=A0Dietz"=A0 > Subject:=A0Best=A0of=A02001 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Performances: >=20 > Henry=A0Threadgill=A0Zooid=A0(Saalfelden=A001-08-24) > Medeski,=A0Martin=A0&=A0Wood=A0w/=A0Marc=A0Ribot=A0&=A0Marshall=A0Allen= =A0(Saalfelden=A001-08- 25) > Katrin=A0Ex=A0-=A0Iva=A0Bittova=A0Duo=A0(Wels=A001-11-09) may i ask what you found lacking in The Ex's performance at Saalfelden? :) seriously, i would top-ten that one, too. my hair stood on end for the whole duration : phenomenal : the big-band=20 version of "State of Shock" alone was worth the entire price of the=20 festival ticket, imo. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben Axelrad" Subject: Re: best of (long) Date: 20 Dec 2001 11:19:22 -0600 Yes, it's been out for a while. A very good movie, not as good as other Jarmans I've seen, but with one of the best endings ever (Stormy Weather was in my head for weeks). The DVD also has 3 short experimental films from the 70s. Check out the KINO website: www.kino.com. I think they're offering 25% off on all purchases made before the 24th. Ben >From: Joseph Zitt >To: Ben Axelrad >CC: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: best of (long) >Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 11:40:04 -0600 > >On Thu, Dec 20, 2001 at 10:27:19AM -0600, Ben Axelrad wrote: > > > The Tempest (Jarman) (Kino) > >That's out on DVD?! Be still, my screaming wallet... > >-- >|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| >| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | >| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | >| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | > _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Is This It? Date: 20 Dec 2001 09:27:29 -0800 On Thu, 20 Dec 2001 11:37:20 EST Samerivertwice@aol.com wrote: > > Based on the overwhelming critical and fandom praise of the Strokes, I went > out and bought "Is This It" yesterday. I thought for sure that this was one > release that would live up to the hype. While this is a good album of basic > rock and roll songs, I can't believe that it's landing on everyone's best of > 2001 lists. It is at best mediocre and at worst derivative of the Ramones, > MC5 and the Velvet Underground. Please, someone on this list convince me > that these guys deserve all the accolades. I won't because I feel exactly like you. Also puzzled by the hype surrounding them. Maybe I am paying too much attention with what I see as derivative, instead of focusing on the most important: what's different. Patrice (who did not understand the craze for Radiohead either). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fastian@aol.com Subject: Sonny Sharrock/Last Exit Date: 20 Dec 2001 12:43:07 EST malczewski@earthlink.net writes: << Just to mention a few rarities (seems most of the rest of his recordings have been mentioned), there's also Last Exit's 'Headfirst Into The Flames', and his recordings for the Space Ghost Coast To Coast cartoon. >> Headfirst is a good one as well as Koln which was what was recorded 1st (not released 1st) although I think it was an unauthorized recording. I haven't heard "Space Ghost". What do people think of it? Its not full length right? Going back to "Iron Path", the reason Brotzmann didn't like it was because he had to lay his tracks down after everyone else did, obviously making it impossible for the other musicians to react to what he was doing. I wonder if Sonny recorded his parts seperately as well. Laswell and Jackson had to have done their parts together. Still, there's a lot of good music on it. A lot of people have slammed "Live in NY". I think that is a great cd and recorded well. Maybe a lot of people are turned off by the 2 electric keyboards and the absence of horns. It really rocks with Sonny playing blistering as well as lyrical. It includes mostly material from "Seize the Rainbow" which everyone seems to like. "Highlife" is a little slick but still worthwhile with the same band as LINY who I was lucky enough to see a couple of times, once with Pharoah Sanders sitting in for a couple of tunes. (I think he was living in Oakland at the time.) I just picked up the ESP reissue of Marzette Watts 1966 recording w Sonny as well as Byard Lancaster, Clifford Thornton, Henry Grimes, Karl Berger, and J.C. Moses. Sonny plays mainly his patented rhythmic bursts of noise on this date with really fine playing by all. The music is pretty varied and dynamic and doesn't lag anywhere even though there's just 3 pieces. Cheers, John Threadgould np Marzette Watts - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Knutboy@aol.com Subject: Re: Is This It? Date: 20 Dec 2001 12:54:26 EST I love the Strokes. I also live in NYC, and am surround by all the hype. Being the snob that I am, I totally dismissed them as the new flavor of the week being forced on the public by the groups fashion associations, and label hype. It took a recent trip to the UK where a close friend gave me a copy of the CD. I found great, short, infectious rock & roll songs that don't wear out their welcome. And in the day of crap rap metal/date rape rock, The Strokes are a welcome alternative. Really good live too. Steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mwisckol@ocregister.com Subject: dave d and bjork in XXX feature Date: 20 Dec 2001 10:14:05 -0800 i drew this list up before the desire for her homelessness had been expressed. 1. Dave Douglas, "Witness" (Bluebird) 2. Bjork, "Vespertine" (Elektra) 3. Henry Threadgill's Zooid, "Up Popped the Two Lips" (Pi) 4. Dave Holland Quintet, "Not for Nothin' " (ECM) 5. Jah Wobble/Bill Laswell, "Radioaxiom" (Palm Pictures) 6. Joe Lovano, "Flights of Fancy" (Blue Note) 7. Jane Bunnett, "Alma de Santiago" (Blue Note) 8. David Shea, "Tryptich" (Quatermass) 9. Louis Sclavis Quintet, "L'affrontement des pretendants" (ECM) 10. James Blood Ulmer, "Memphis Blood: The Sun Sessions" (Label M) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: Tricky Date: 20 Dec 2001 14:17:47 -0400 < Subject: Re: Tricky Date: 20 Dec 2001 13:28:12 -0800 I've been reading your posts about Tricky et al, and I just have to voice my opinion. In terms of Tricky, his first 4 albums (Max, PMT, Nearly God - which is genius, Angels) are of excellent quality. PMT and Nearly God ranking atop my fave list. Yet Juxtapose and Blowback were major disappointments. Not only was the music commercialized and un-original, it was plain awful. I mean, what's with the rappin on "boom boom diggy"?? Yes, for a commercial album they're decent, but compared to his older albums they're crap. And it's not like HE COULDN'T come up with the same music. He topped maxinquaye with each other record he released, up until Juxtapose. It's lazyness, and his inflated ego that have gotten to him. If anyone knows anything about him, it's that he has an awful temperament and he's extremely conceited. I met him twice, and the first time he was very nice and talkative (then again he just finished smoking a blunt) yet the second time, he refused to give autographs and started mumbling swearwords when ppl came up to him. And his concerts aren't anything to behold eitehr. The rock-altered trip hop songs come out distorted and whatnot. Portishead is a dead group. They have abandoned their fans for about 5 years almost, and haven't released anything, not even a press release. I myself am dying to hear the new stuff, but i have a feeling it'll be disappointing. Pretty much every old/classic trip hop group who came out with new albums have gone down the craphole. Hooverphonic's new album sounds like Dido mushed with more pop sounds, Morcheeba's Fragments is a pure POP album in itself, yet a desirable one at that, Tricky (don't get me started), Massive Attack have taken the same route as Portishead, yet their last effort leaves a lot of high expectations, and LAmb, who came out seeming as being the only decent clone of trip hop bands to merge drum n bass with trip-hoppin grooves, have gone the soft way, and abandoned any harsh, jazzy beats in favour of "heart-drenchingly" cliche melancholy. Very sad. The only hope rests in CInematic Orchestra, which I hope is well known among this mailing list. Their jazz tunes are something of a heavenly state. I have over 5 of their concerts, and they're simply amazing. EIther them, or just wait for the new Guns N Roses album :) the muff - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Kowalski" Subject: oops - forgot for best of list Date: 20 Dec 2001 13:47:23 -0500 One thousand lashes to myself: Bill Frisell released Blues Dreams & w/ Dave Holland & Elvin Jones discs = this year. They are bad! Good! Sweet! =20 I haven't purchased the new Wayne Horovitz yet - any good? I'm holding = off due to the $20 price tag but am tempted... Did the Commisar Vanishes, the Michael Nyman cd release w/ re-recording of = Flight of Icarus (double disc) come out this year? If so that is close to = top of list for 2001. Thunderous... I forget so many... =20 Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Trenkel Subject: Best of 2k1 Date: 20 Dec 2001 11:01:44 -0800 In no particular order, and way too long: Flanger: Outer Space/Inner Space: Imagine the Headhunters subjected to the Clicks 'n Cuts crew. Rich Halley: Coyotes in the City (Louie): Standard disclaimer, I worked on this record, but it's still great. Halley is a Portland, OR, based tenor player, this is a loose, swinging and exploratory trio setting that is, IMHO, one of the best "jazz" records I've heard in a long time. Mouse on Mars: Idiology: More of their usual quirky, small-scale, melodic techno, now with more overt hints of Canterbury scene prog and krautrock. Their best record yet. Techno Animal: Brotherhood of the Bomb. Probably the darkest hiphop record I've heard, at least since Tricky's "Angel's With Dirty Faces", to tie this to another recent thread... Bill Laswell/Jah Wobble: Radioaxiom: OK, so it's inevitable that I mention at least one Laswell project on these lists, but this, while it really doesn't break any new ground, still mining that dubby tabla groove thing, with hints of drum 'n bass to sound fresh (for 1996, maybe :-), just really gets it right. Squarepusher: Go Plastic, Aphex Twin: Drukqs: I didn't particularly like either of these on first listen, but they both have really grown on me. On the surface, the Squarepusher seems to be moving further into the spastic d'n b thing, but the more I listen to it, the more I hear the melodic sensibility that made records like "Music is Rotted One Note" so great. Drukqs is the first Aphex record that really ties together all the sides of his career, the ambient, the techno, the drill 'n bass, etc. Alex Cline Ensemble: The Constant Flame (Cryptogramophone): A set of pieces that pay tribute to Cline's inspirations, from Don Cherry and John Carter, to Takemitsu, David Sylvain, filmmaker Krystof Kieslowski, poet Akiko Yosano, and others. Very nice disc, with strong playing from a number of LA players including Vinny Golia and Nels Cline. A very ECM-ish disc, in the best sense. Spring Heel Jack: Masses: A very surprising change of form for this British d'nb duo, here they collaborate with players like Matthew Shipp, Evan Parker, Tim Berne, and others. Great, deeply textured and subtle electronics mixed with free improvising, one of the most successful collaborations of this kind. Robert Rich: Bestiary: Extremely dark ambient music, with all sounds either created by or processed through an analog modular synthesizer. Honorable mentions: Tim Berne:The Shell Game Greg Bendian's Interzone: Requiem for Jack Kirby Carl Craig: Onsumothasheeit Bill Laswell: Points of Order Konk Pack John Zorn: The Gift(yeah, it's not particularly challenging, but it's the only Zorn disc I played more than 5 times this year). Reissues of the year: Larry Young: Lawrence of Newark: I've been searching for this record for decades, ever since my piano teacher turned me onto Young. This 1973 recording is one of the holy grails of out jazz rock, large ensemble with lots of percussion, takes the groove sense of contemporary Santana and subjects it to the freedom of the Arkestra, all with Young's screaming, liquid B3 over the top. Simply great stuff Sun Ra: The Solar Myth Approach Vol. 1 & 2. 2CD reissue of the classic BYG lps, and among Ra's best, IMHO. -- Dave Trenkel New and Improv Music http://www.newandimprov.com improv@peak.org Now Available: Minus: Dark Lit "This is music all-consuming in its beauty and power" -Jake TenPas OSU Daily Barometer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Berman" Subject: Re: dave d and bjork in XXX feature Date: 20 Dec 2001 14:30:47 -0500 10. James Blood Ulmer, "Memphis Blood: The Sun Sessions" (Label M) dont remember this being covered here, maybe I missed it. whats this = like? Someone might have mentioned to me its Blood doing old blues = numbers?=20 if it made your top 10 I guess ill have to go out and get it. mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Trenkel Subject: Re: Tricky Date: 20 Dec 2001 11:17:54 -0800 >I've been reading your posts about Tricky et al, and I just have to voice my >opinion. >In terms of Tricky, his first 4 albums (Max, PMT, Nearly God - which >is genius, >Angels) are of excellent quality. PMT and Nearly God ranking atop my fave >list. I must agree here, though I'd put "Angels" up there too, it's one of the truly scariest of his records, he seems to be exploring all the darker sides of his egomania here. >The only hope rests in CInematic Orchestra, which I hope is well known among >this mailing list. Their jazz tunes are something of a heavenly >state. I have >over 5 of their concerts, and they're simply amazing. A friend just turned me onto their (his) "Motion" disc. I can't believe I hadn't checked it out earlier, great stuff! -- Dave Trenkel New and Improv Music http://www.newandimprov.com improv@peak.org Now Available: Minus: Dark Lit "This is music all-consuming in its beauty and power" -Jake TenPas OSU Daily Barometer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: Re: Wolf Eyes Date: 20 Dec 2001 19:20:08 >>Speaking of heavy, crazy, noisy, wall-of-sound, >>losing-your-mind sort of stuff, if you are into that >>and the group Wolf Eyes comes to your town, do >>not miss them. I saw them last night (third time >>this week, they are on tour from Michigan and in >>California now) and it was absolutely amazing. >i haven't had the chance to see them live, but Wolf >Eyes' recordings are fantastic. the s/t CD [bulb], >dread LP [hanson], and Wolf Eyes w/ Spykes CD-R >[hanson] are among my favorite releases of the year. a >brilliant mix of drum machines, cracked electronics, >guitars, and noise squeezed into song-form. that's funny -- i have all three of these, and they're good. but i guess i envy you b/c i bought the albums after seeing them play twice and can only listen to the albums in that context. and for me it is impossible for those albums to do justice to those shows. maybe their new (as yet unreleased/recorded, perhaps) stuff will be a better reflection of what they're playing?? anyhow, i've never seen anyone make electronics/drum machines "sweat" as they did that last show ... although if anyone has any other suggestions in that category i'd be happy to hear 'em! wy _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew" Subject: Re: Tricky Date: 20 Dec 2001 14:02:49 -0500 Thank God SOMEONE agrees with me on this one- thanks, Muff. I can't believe you guys- "what's wrong with making commercial music?", etc.; the focus is that Tricky is making music that's intentionally commercial, INSTEAD of making music that's artistically relevant. He's SAID this. While some artists can make music that's both comercially successful AND artistically sound/relevant, Tricky is not doing this, whatsoever. He's chosen the commercial path, at the sake of artistic relevance. On Portishead; I'm not sure who would think that "Dummy" is better than their self-titled. '97's "Portishead" is easily their best record. While "Dummy" is a nice collection of bedroom hip hop tracks w/ Beth's vocals, "Portishead" comes across like John Barry as produced and re-fucked by King Tubby. Over-the-top, excellent, and inspiring. a. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: Best of 2k1 Date: 20 Dec 2001 14:21:49 EST Dave Trenkel writes: > Aphex Twin: Drukqs: [...] > Drukqs is the first Aphex record that really ties > together all the sides of his career, the ambient, the techno, the > drill 'n bass, etc. there may be a reason for that. i have a friend (a huge Aphex fan) who's convinced that that majority of the new album is old material. Aphex is purpoted to have recorded tons of (unreleased) material, so it's certainly possible. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Berman" Subject: Re: Best of 2k1 Date: 20 Dec 2001 14:54:54 -0500 > Reissues of the year: > Larry Young: Lawrence of Newark:=20 I second this. great to FINALLY see/hear this again (More Blood Ulmer = btw). When will Hendrix/Youngs 'Nine To the Universe' resurface? =20 By the way, since this IS a zorn list, what about a top 10 Tzadik list? = so far Ive only seen The Gift, Masada Live at Tonic and frith come up. = Not that i bought ten tzadik's this year, but i thought Satlah's exodus = (also live at tonic) was strong. =20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: dave d and bjork in XXX feature Date: 20 Dec 2001 11:32:07 -0800 > > 10. James Blood Ulmer, "Memphis Blood: The Sun Sessions" (Label M) > > dont remember this being covered here, maybe I missed it. whats this like? > Someone might have mentioned to me its Blood doing old blues numbers? > if it made your top 10 I guess ill have to go out and get it. > > mike > > > > - > It's great. It's Blood playing & singing blues, but he's still totally playing & singing Blood. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Trenkel Subject: Re: Best of 2k1 Date: 20 Dec 2001 11:42:23 -0800 > > Reissues of the year: >> Larry Young: Lawrence of Newark: > >I second this. great to FINALLY see/hear this again (More Blood >Ulmer btw). When will Hendrix/Youngs 'Nine To the Universe' >resurface? As far as I know, the only recording that Hendrix did w/Young was a blues that was released on last years 4-cd box. It's very nice (and the box is worth it for any Hendrix fan), but not as transcendent as it could have been. If there's more, I'd love to hear it! -- Dave Trenkel New and Improv Music http://www.newandimprov.com improv@peak.org Now Available: Minus: Dark Lit "This is music all-consuming in its beauty and power" -Jake TenPas OSU Daily Barometer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: Cinematic Orchestra (was: Tricky) Date: 20 Dec 2001 15:40:58 -0400 Has anyone heard their remix album? MOTION is totally excellent, and I would like to know what the remix album is like. Neil H. Enet ------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: the muff Subject: Re: Tricky Date: 20 Dec 2001 14:41:50 -0800 lol, i have the same impression about [P]'s Portishead album. It shows a maturity in sound, ambiance, and jazziness. I mean, WESTERN EYES!!! Beautifull cafe-concert music. Andrew wrote: > Thank God SOMEONE agrees with me on this one- thanks, Muff. > > I can't believe you guys- "what's wrong with making commercial music?", > etc.; the focus is that Tricky is making music that's intentionally > commercial, INSTEAD of making music that's artistically relevant. He's SAID > this. While some artists can make music that's both comercially successful > AND artistically sound/relevant, Tricky is not doing this, whatsoever. He's > chosen the commercial path, at the sake of artistic relevance. > > On Portishead; I'm not sure who would think that "Dummy" is better than > their self-titled. '97's "Portishead" is easily their best record. While > "Dummy" is a nice collection of bedroom hip hop tracks w/ Beth's vocals, > "Portishead" comes across like John Barry as produced and re-fucked by King > Tubby. Over-the-top, excellent, and inspiring. > > a. > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Westergaard" Subject: RE: Hendrix/Young Date: 20 Dec 2001 14:38:33 -0500 i'm a ridiculous Hendrix collector. Working record retail for years allows one to amass a lovely boot collection without actually paying as seriously thru the nose as your average joe. I've got several tracks with Jimi and Larry Young, one of them actually runs about 20 minutes, but they tend to meander quite a bit. For the most part, the sessions sound like they're just feeling each other out; same with the John Mclaughlin sessions. Mclaughlin actually sounds a bit intimidated, and the tracks don't really go anywhere. There's even a track (ships passing in the night) that is either Miles himself or someone doing a remarkable job of aping him. >If there's more, I'd love to hear it! you can let me know off list how much you'd love to hear it. i'm sure we can work something out. sean - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nirav Soni" Subject: Re: Cinematic Orchestra (was: Tricky) Date: 20 Dec 2001 15:34:11 -0500 > Has anyone heard their remix album? MOTION is totally excellent, and I would > like to know what the remix album is like. Very, very mediocre. Sounds like someone assumes movie music to sound like without any care at all to those weird quirks that tie the music in movies to the action. Save yr money and buy the new Flanger instead...lots of bumpin, Hancock-filtered through a slightly electronic aesthetic- like hazelnut coffee, as opposed to the unaltered variety. You may be a connisseur of the subtleties of different regional coffees, but sometimes it's nice to give yr tastebuds a little something outside the norm. Nirav -- AIM: Icefactory37 NR- Charlie Mingus- Revenge! 2cd (Revenge) "Duration is to the consciousness as light is to the eye" - Bill Viola - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ryan Novak Subject: Re: Sonny Sharrock/Last Exit Date: 20 Dec 2001 12:47:57 -0800 (PST) >From: Fastian@aol.com >Headfirst is a good one as well as Koln which was >what was recorded 1st >(not released 1st) although I think it was an >unauthorized recording. I >haven't heard "Space Ghost". What do people think of >it? Its not full >length right? Yeah, it's short but it's very good, even essential in an odd way. Since it is probably impossible to still get it from Cartoon Network like I did years ago, try Audiogalaxy- I've seen some of the tracks there. It's full of noisy slide work and it sounds great in the duo with drums parts- the other would be with a sequenced electronic backup "band" which is the show's theme song and is cheesy, but Sonny is just as great on that. > Going back to "Iron Path", the reason Brotzmann >didn't like it was >because he had to lay his tracks down after everyone >else did, obviously >making it impossible for the other musicians to react >to what he was doing. His solos are some of the best things on there. There's a lot of ways to make good music and even though spontaneous music is often my favorite too, it can actually get to be kind of a hang up as much as any other way. But maybe Brotz isn't as comfortable having to react than with being reacted to. ;~) ---Ryan N. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer Subject: more of the same on thursday afternoon Date: 20 Dec 2001 20:47:44 -0500 >From: "M Pathos" >The whole argument about "selling out" is so tiresome. Anybody who doesn't >give their music away and wants more than their mother to hear it is >"selling" - it just depends if you want to make a living doing just music or >stay forever an amateur. If by amateur you mean--one who engages in a pursuit, study, science, or sport as a pastime rather than as a profession--then what you have said is irrelevant to the issue of "selling out". If, on the other hand, by amateur you mean--one lacking in experience and competence in an art or science--then this is a narrow and unimaginative point of view, invented I think to justify "selling out". Charles Ives is famous example that refutes your argument. For the first 55 years of his life, Ives continued to make his own music, without compromise, without making a living at it, and I think no one who knows of his music would call it amateurish. On a related topic: >He's literally said things like "i just want to make music that will >make me alot of money." I have a kind of respect for someone who will admit to a sentiment like this. They are honest and they have enough self-respect to admit their honest opinions. There is nothing wrong with making music to make money, especially if it is enjoyable music that can start your feet tapping. On the contary, what is offensive is making music to make money and claiming to yourself and to anyone else that you have an ulterior, usually "higher", motive. David K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" Subject: Re: top 10 Date: 20 Dec 2001 08:31:08 +0100 > 1. v/a -- Hava Narghoulie : Turkish Rock 1966-75 (Dionysus) > Some of this is awful, but the best stuff on here is just amazing. Could you elaborate a little bit on this one - who's on it, who you like and you don't? Francesco (interested in anything Turkish, even if it's rock) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Westergaard" Subject: RE: Hava Narghile Date: 20 Dec 2001 16:17:53 -0500 Erkin Koray is the king. If you can find his late 60's/early 70's stuff, everything I've tracked down has been great, especially Elektronic Turkuler AMAZING! 3 Hurel (Uç Hürel) is quite good also, with a bit more emphasis on rocking up tradional Turkish material. The Mogollar recordings I've heard are also pretty good, but Erkin is the man. there's a full list of tunes & performers at www.allmusic.com the album is actually called "Hava Narghile"; I've been told Narghile is "Water Pipe" sean -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Francesco Martinelli Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 2:31 AM > 1. v/a -- Hava Narghoulie : Turkish Rock 1966-75 (Dionysus) > Some of this is awful, but the best stuff on here is just amazing. Could you elaborate a little bit on this one - who's on it, who you like and you don't? Francesco (interested in anything Turkish, even if it's rock) - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: What's Good For The Goose........ Date: 20 Dec 2001 13:29:07 -0800 On Thu, 20 Dec 2001 03:22:01 +0000 "Bill Ashline" wrote: > > >And until there's an objective way to actually figure > >out the good stuff from the bad (we all know that Garth Brooks is bad, > >there's just no scientific data to prove it intrinsically > > We need to "unlearn" "scientific objectivity" for starters--it was never > there to begin with. Second of all, we "agree" that Garth Brooks is bad. And "unlearning" will benefit who (besides the usual suspects)? Maybe "scientific objectivity" is just the imperfect way of recognizing that among all human activities, some are a little bit more reliable than others. That subjectivity is part of the scientific process would surprise nobody but the naive, but that does not affect the fact that the results, once settled, are more objective than the ones from astrology. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "nors5379" Subject: best of 2001 Date: 20 Dec 2001 21:42:32 GMT hi - i've been a lurker since august but lists like these tempt me to voice my opinion and working at a cd store doesnt help either (does anybody else have this problem? my whole paycheck goes toward recommendations and orders grrr haha) i was introduced to zorn around june and became immediately obsessed with his work. and with that introduction came many other artists that i have grown to love in the last 6 months. so much of my list is comprised of those discs and me going back and picking up discs that i heard in my teen years and didnt appreciate at the time. so here it goes... its not 10 and its long! -darryl. trevor dunn's trio convulsant - debutantes & centipedes john zorn - the gift, masada - gimel, naked city (elektra) marc ribot - cubanos postivos (both) & saints lounge lizards - live in berlin vol. 1 & 2, queen of all ears charlie hunter - songs from the analog playground tj kirk - both discs james carter - layin' in the cut leon parker - awakening matt darraiu's paradox trio - flying at a slant jacob fred jazz odyssey - self is gone olu dara - neighborhoods david byrne - look into the eyeball radiohead - amenesiac disco biscuits - they missed the perfume morphine - the night & bootleg detroit chocolate genius - both discs either/orchestra - across the omniverse tom waits - all that i acquired! mr. bungle - all. best shows... 9/19/01 - david byrne 6/22-23/01, 10/24 & 26/01 - medeski, martin and wood 8/4/01 - the word 8/11/01 & 11/17/01 - jacob fred jazz odyssey 5/1?/01 - black eyed peas & de la soul (hip hop shows can be fun!) 8/10/01 - galactic 8/12/01 - spontaneous improvisation w/ medeski, reid, singleton & moses 4/6/01 - miracle orchestra ..so many countless others. Darryl Norsen db.etree.org/shortround nors5379@fredonia.edu volerniemickey@hotmail.com "JAZZ is my religion and it alone do I dig. The jazz clubs are my houses of worship and sometimes the concert halls, but some holy places are too commercial (like churches) so I dont dig the sermons there. I buy jazz sides to dig in solitude." - Feinstein - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: AFX Date: 20 Dec 2001 16:41:39 EST i would also postulise that the majority of the new album is old material, with the plausible exception of the prepared piano pieces... which i think make the album listenable. :) kp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mwisckol@ocregister.com Subject: james blood ulmer Date: 20 Dec 2001 13:44:20 -0800 This is the straight up blues album, recorded at Sun Studios, that I always thought Blood had in him -- but never thought he'd make. Sorta like Ornette doing a straight album of Bird compositions. Blood is a great blues singer and player, and this CD is as genuine and vital as any new blues album I've heard in a while (altho my blues listening is far far from comprehensive). He does Evil and Hoochie Coochie Man and Just Wanna Make Love to You and the like. On the other hand, zornlister James Hale gave it an average *** review in Downbeat. If I recall, he was disappointed that Blood and Vernon Reid didn't wail a bit more in their distinctive vernaculars. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: What's Good For The Goose........ Date: 20 Dec 2001 22:03:35 +0000 >From: "Patrice L. Roussel" > > We need to "unlearn" "scientific objectivity" for starters--it was never > > there to begin with. Second of all, we "agree" that Garth Brooks is >bad. > >And "unlearning" will benefit who (besides the usual suspects)? > >Maybe "scientific objectivity" is just the imperfect way of recognizing >that among all human activities, some are a little bit more reliable >than others. That subjectivity is part of the scientific process would >surprise nobody but the naive, but that does not affect the fact that the >results, once settled, are more objective than the ones from astrology. C'mon Patrice. You've already admitted to everybody that you're not an intellectual. Give it a rest and enjoy your holidays. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: What's Good For The Goose........ Date: 20 Dec 2001 14:06:37 -0800 On Thu, 20 Dec 2001 22:03:35 +0000 "Bill Ashline" wrote: > > C'mon Patrice. You've already admitted to everybody that you're not an > intellectual. Give it a rest and enjoy your holidays. At least we agree on that :-). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" Subject: Re: What's Good For The Goose........ Date: 20 Dec 2001 14:21:00 -0800 >>>That subjectivity is part of the scientific process would surprise nobody but the naive, but that does not affect the fact that the results, once settled, are more objective than the ones from astrology.<<< From a certain rationalist perspective, this is true. But rational thought is not the end of the line in the evolution of human consciousness, and there is even more objectivity above and beyond science, and that perspective makes science look like astrology. But, as the development of science required the sacrifice of a more primitive consciousness, the development of the next level requires the sacrifice of reason. Reason will not go quietly . . . . Choosing Reality by B. Alan Wallace is highly recommended reading. And, don't let the shitty title mislead you. It is not NewAge sewage. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: top 10 Date: 20 Dec 2001 14:35:24 -0800 > >> 1. v/a -- Hava Narghoulie : Turkish Rock 1966-75 (Dionysus) >> Some of this is awful, but the best stuff on here is just amazing. > Could you elaborate a little bit on this one - who's on it, who you like and > you don't? > Francesco > (interested in anything Turkish, even if it's rock) > > > It's 22 tracks, with Erkin Koray being on a few, but mostly different bands -- Yabancular, Mogollar, Yabancular, Baris Manco, and Apaslar among them. The stuff I like I like for a variety of reasons. Some of it has to do with stuff that sounds very exotic -- to me -- being just one more part of their regular playing practices (ie the scales and some of the chord progressions). Also, the instruments themselves -- espec the older Middle Eastern eletric keyboards -- make Joe Meek sound like Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis. The stuff I don't like is the later stuff (post 1970), as it tends toward prog rock, which I personally dislike as a rule. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: What's Good For The Goose........ Date: 20 Dec 2001 14:37:36 -0800 > On Thu, 20 Dec 2001 03:22:01 +0000 "Bill Ashline" wrote: >> >>> And until there's an objective way to actually figure >>> out the good stuff from the bad (we all know that Garth Brooks is bad, >>> there's just no scientific data to prove it intrinsically >> >> We need to "unlearn" "scientific objectivity" for starters--it was never >> there to begin with. Second of all, we "agree" that Garth Brooks is bad. > > And "unlearning" will benefit who (besides the usual suspects)? > > Maybe "scientific objectivity" is just the imperfect way of recognizing > that among all human activities, some are a little bit more reliable > than others. That subjectivity is part of the scientific process would > surprise nobody but the naive, but that does not affect the fact that the > results, once settled, are more objective than the ones from astrology. > > Patrice. > I was using the term "scientific" to mean something completely intrinsic and without any subjective margin. I probably should have said so, too. best -- skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: james blood ulmer Date: 20 Dec 2001 14:42:18 -0800 > This is the straight up blues album, recorded at Sun Studios, that I always > thought Blood had in him -- but never thought he'd make. Sorta like Ornette > doing a straight album of Bird compositions. Blood is a great blues singer > and player, and this CD is as genuine and vital as any new blues album I've > heard in a while (altho my blues listening is far far from comprehensive). > He does Evil and Hoochie Coochie Man and Just Wanna Make Love to You and > the like. > > On the other hand, zornlister James Hale gave it an average *** review in > Downbeat. If I recall, he was disappointed that Blood and Vernon Reid > didn't wail a bit more in their distinctive vernaculars. > > > - > I don't understand why somebody would be disappointed that somebody did something other than their tried-and-true formula. Does Blood Ulmer need to play harmelodic solos on everything, or can he present a whole of other side of his musicality? No place does JBU represent the disc as being anything other than what it is. In fact, I was under the impression that the whole point of this album was to let JBU play blues, which he does fantastically. BTW -- your listening need not be all that comprehensive. About 90% of new blues records sound pretty freeze-dried. The other 10% is another story, but that other 90 is sonic sominex. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Re: james blood ulmer Date: 20 Dec 2001 17:51:47 -0500 Skip Heller wrote: > I don't understand why somebody would be disappointed that somebody did > something other than their tried-and-true formula. Does Blood Ulmer need to > play harmelodic solos on everything, or can he present a whole of other side > of his musicality? No place does JBU represent the disc as being anything > other than what it is. In fact, I was under the impression that the whole > point of this album was to let JBU play blues, which he does fantastically. I usually let reviews stand without additional comment, but nowhere do I say that I'm "disappointed" that Blood does anything other than what he does. In fact, I state that I'm disappointed that he doesn't do *more* of what he does. Read the review. Simply put, the recording is measured against Blood's best (Are You Glad To Be In America? and America, Do You Remember The Love? for two) and other performances in the genre (Mose Allison, Muddy, et.al.). BTW, three stars is the mark of a solid recording. James Hale - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert A. Pleshar" Subject: Plastic People Date: 20 Dec 2001 16:49:49 -0600 Hi All, This is probably a longshot, but you folks are as likely as anyone to know if Plastic People of the Universe records were ever reissued on CD or vinyl and if so, where they might be available? Hankerin to hear "Egon Bondy's..." which I haven't heard for oh, 8 -10 years now. Thanks, Rob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Revue des Fossiles" Subject: Re: Plastic People Date: 20 Dec 2001 15:06:37 -0800 ppu is in the middle of a massive archival reissue program, 'egon' proper having yet to be re-released. that being said, more than a few notable releases have both on vinyl and cd - http://www.rermegacorp.com/index.htm should still have the vinyl. either http://www.clamazon.com/ or http://www.wayside.com/ should have all of the cds that have come out in stock. >This is probably a longshot, but you folks are as likely as anyone to know >if Plastic People of the Universe records were ever reissued on CD or vinyl >and if so, where they might be available? Hankerin to hear "Egon >Bondy's..." which I haven't heard for oh, 8 -10 years now. - rdf. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: james blood ulmer Date: 20 Dec 2001 15:30:47 -0800 > Skip Heller wrote: > >> I don't understand why somebody would be disappointed that somebody did >> something other than their tried-and-true formula. Does Blood Ulmer need to >> play harmelodic solos on everything, or can he present a whole of other side >> of his musicality? No place does JBU represent the disc as being anything >> other than what it is. In fact, I was under the impression that the whole >> point of this album was to let JBU play blues, which he does fantastically. > > I usually let reviews stand without additional comment, but nowhere do I say > that I'm "disappointed" that Blood does anything other than what he does. In > fact, I state that I'm disappointed that he doesn't do *more* of what he does. > Read the review. > Simply put, the recording is measured against Blood's best (Are You Glad To Be > In America? and America, Do You Remember The Love? for two) and other > performances in the genre (Mose Allison, Muddy, et.al.). > BTW, three stars is the mark of a solid recording. > > James Hale James -- usually I am in accordance with your reviews, and I had indeed read this one (I in fact seek out your buyline as a rule). I acutally buy DOWNBEAT every month, and your consumer advocacy approach to reviews is one of the reasons I still do. I thought your recent observations about piano/woodwind duos (in the recent review of the Myra/Ehrlich record) was some of the most perceptive I've read on the subject EVER, especially given how many critics I have read who write about duo interplay in a manner that tells me directly that a great many critics don't really understand (past the iceberg's proverbial tip) what the hell they're writing about. I give you more respect than I give most, so cut me some slack if I am harsher with you than I am with most when we don't see eye-to-eye, especially if I love the record in question and my impression coming away from your review is that you found it "solid", which I take to mean "largely unexciting". Had I not heard the record and had read that review (with your by-line), I would probably had not checked it out. But -- and this is strictly a personal view issue -- I disagree with measuring this record against his other records. Also, for my tastes, his best record to date is BLACK ROCK, which should tell you that we're fundmentally looking for different things in different ways. I've bought quite a few copies of MEMPHIS BLOOD as Christmas presents this yr, and I rarely buy nine copies of anything to give out. To me it is far beyond solid, because I finally get a whole record of the guy finally -- metaphorically -- speaking at length about something to which he has previously only hinted and that I had been waiting at length to hear. I don't understand the Muddy or Mose analogies. In Muddy's case, REAL FOLK BLUES? it's a stretch but I can see it. And, with Mose, MY BACKYARD? That's really a stretch and I am not sure I agree. (Mose is a big subject with me, BTW. I've seen the guy more times than I've seen anyone, save for NRBQ.) I respect your views a great deal, and I'm sorry you felt you had to respond to me personally. But I can only comment on what I felt personally as I came away from reading it, and my view of the recording at hand was different, and -- HERE'S A SHOCK -- something about which I had and have an opinion. As ever -- skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Fwd: Music Romance Date: 21 Dec 2001 12:27:59 +1100 I was going to say, it seems very much like he doesn't have the inspiration (or just can't be bothered) to make 'albums' the way he used to anymore. Rather he just puts down whatever mixed up unrelated ideas he happens to have... > I think the main weakness of the Music Romance series is that they're not > homogeneous at all. There's so much diversity in those albums (Masada tunes, > NC stuff, chamber compositions, "rock"-oriented material, etc) that I find > it fairly difficult for anyone to enjoy them in their entirety. At least > it's what happens to me. However, my favorite is "Taboo & Exile" by far. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Re: Hava Narghile/Plastic People Date: 20 Dec 2001 21:00:01 -0500 Thu, 20 Dec 2001 16:17:53 -0500 >From: "Sean Westergaard" >Subject: RE: Hava Narghile > >Erkin Koray is the king. If you can find his late 60's/early 70's stuff,= =20 >everything I've tracked down has been great, especially Elektronic=20 >Turkuler AMAZING! 3 Hurel (U=E7 H=FCrel) is quite good also, with a bit= more=20 >emphasis on rocking up tradional Turkish material. The Mogollar=20 >recordings I've heard are also pretty good, but Erkin is the man. there's= =20 >a full list of tunes & performers at www.allmusic.com the album is=20 >actually called "Hava Narghile"; I've been told Narghile is "Water Pipe" Yep, it's a Water pipe or 'hookah,' if you will. Koray is indeed=20 king. You can also find him and others from that '60's scene on "Turkish=20 Delights" which came out this year on Grey Past Records (Netherlands). For modern Turkish music, also looks out for Replikas and BabaZula. Forced= =20 Exposure and Father Yod had carried some BabaZula material and may=20 still. Replikas will be coming out with a new record in 2002. Someone else ask about the Plastic People (Czech Republic) and their=20 (in)famous debut "Egon Bondy." Their record company, Globus, should be=20 reissuing this next year. Best, Jason Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Revue des Fossiles" Subject: Top Ten 2001 Date: 20 Dec 2001 19:01:11 -0800 1) Otomo Yoshihide - Anode CD (Tzadik) 2) Greg Kelley / Jason Lescaleet - Forlorn Green CD (Erstwhile) 3) Kaoru Abe - Passe Temps # 1-13 CDR Set (Passe-Temps Disk) 4) Serge Gainsbourg - Serge Gainsbourg Forever 18 CD Box Set (Mercury/France) 5) Fushitsusha - Origin's Hesitation CD (PSF) 6) John Zorn - Songs From The Hermetic Theatre CD (Tzadik) 7) Parson Sound - 2CD (Ti'lliden/Subliminal) 8) Cragale Muon 2nd 101 CDR Set (Cragale) 9) Seigen Ono - Saidero Paradiso 20 CD Set (Saidero Paradiso) 10) Vas Deferens Organization - Suspension LP (Beta-Lactam-Ring) - rdf. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew" Subject: Re: Cinematic Orchestra (was: Tricky) Date: 20 Dec 2001 21:05:02 -0500 > Has anyone heard their remix album? MOTION is totally excellent, and I would > like to know what the remix album is like. I love the Cinematic Orchestra. The remix album is ok- essentially, Ninja Tune artists take CO tracks and make them sound like typical Ninja Tune tracks- but still nice if you like that sort of thing (I do). andrew - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew" Subject: flanger Date: 20 Dec 2001 21:10:21 -0500 > Very, very mediocre. Sounds like someone assumes movie music to sound like > without any care at all to those weird quirks that tie the music in movies > to the action. Save yr money and buy the new Flanger instead...lots of > bumpin, Hancock-filtered through a slightly electronic aesthetic- like > hazelnut coffee, as opposed to the unaltered variety. You may be a > connisseur of the subtleties of different regional coffees, but sometimes > it's nice to give yr tastebuds a little something outside the norm. I second that- the new Flanger album is TIGHT. The bonobo, however, is a little boring. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: Re: Plastic People Date: 20 Dec 2001 22:57:48 -0500 >ppu is in the middle of a massive archival reissue program, 'egon' proper >having yet to be re-released. that being said, more than a few notable "Egon" actually was reissued on CD a few years back. I have a copy. Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Documentary Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: Top Ten 2001 Date: 20 Dec 2001 20:04:25 -0800 (PST) --- Revue des Fossiles wrote: > 3) Kaoru Abe - Passe Temps # 1-13 CDR Set > (Passe-Temps Disk) Whoa...what is this? This isn't a legit/boot reish of the DIW solo material, is it? Finally, how to procure? asked the junkie. > 7) Parson Sound - 2CD (Ti'lliden/Subliminal) Bardo Pond are chumps. This is the dopest stoner sludge I had the pleasure to stumble on this year: truly awesome, shambling destructo-drone pleasure. Too much. I was just eyeing the other Swedish reissues on Subliminal and Silence; are these as good? Same vein? Finally, and unrelated, anyone heard ETHIOPIQUES vol. 11, HARP OF DAVID, by the lyrist Alemu Aga? I keep hearing it recommended in terms of its "psychedelic" qualities (one reviewer made a glib comparison to Paerson Sound, but hey...) , but it looks interesting enough without drug likening. -------s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Top Ten 2001 Date: 20 Dec 2001 23:14:12 EST In a message dated 12/20/01 10:02:59 PM, revuedesfossiles@hotmail.com writes: << 8) Cragale Muon 2nd 101 CDR Set (Cragale) >> I feel compelled to ask whether this means that Cragale Muon has released 2 different sets of 101 discs each. and as long as I'm inquiring, who's Cragale Muon? Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Revue des Fossiles" Subject: Re: Plastic People Date: 20 Dec 2001 20:16:07 -0800 >"Egon" actually was reissued on CD a few years back. I have a copy. yeah, i remember picking this up through wayside distribution around 1996 - though i can't remember if it is on globus or not. afaik, that edition is out of print. the planned reissue is supposed to have some extra tracks or something? - rdf. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Plastic People Date: 20 Dec 2001 23:09:59 -0600 On Thu, Dec 20, 2001 at 08:16:07PM -0800, Revue des Fossiles wrote: > >"Egon" actually was reissued on CD a few years back. I have a copy. > > yeah, i remember picking this up through wayside distribution around 1996 - > though i can't remember if it is on globus or not. afaik, that edition is > out of print. the planned reissue is supposed to have some extra tracks or > something? FWIW, the CD I have of "Passion Play" is on Globus. What a great record... -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: the muff Subject: Re: Cinematic Orchestra (was: Tricky) Date: 20 Dec 2001 23:44:49 -0800 FYI, the new album's coming out on Jan 14th the muff Andrew wrote: > > Has anyone heard their remix album? MOTION is totally excellent, and I > would > > like to know what the remix album is like. > > I love the Cinematic Orchestra. The remix album is ok- essentially, Ninja > Tune artists take CO tracks and make them sound like typical Ninja Tune > tracks- but still nice if you like that sort of thing (I do). > > andrew > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Revue des Fossiles" Subject: Re: Top Ten 2001 Date: 20 Dec 2001 22:36:15 -0800 > > 3) Kaoru Abe - Passe Temps # 1-13 CDR Set > > (Passe-Temps Disk) > >Whoa...what is this? This isn't a legit/boot reish of >the DIW solo material, is it? Finally, how to >procure? asked the junkie. live performances of kaoru abe from 1974-77 at the passe-temps jazz kissa. abe performs mostly solo on synthesizer, electric and acoustic guitar, percussion, piano, and saxophones. passe temps claims rights to these recordings; though they ran into some trouble with the estate of yoshizawa and had to pull the disc featuring the stellar duet between moto and kaoru. there are also three videos available of different performances featuring abe, but i wouldn't recommend them due to the poor picture quality and steep price. more information here: http://www08.u-page.so-net.ne.jp/pj8/passetem/PASS.html fwiw, in the resonance article that otomo wrote about japanese free jazz he's referring the above shows and recordings of k. abe. > > 7) Parson Sound - 2CD (Ti'lliden/Subliminal) > >Bardo Pond are chumps. This is the dopest stoner >sludge I had the pleasure to stumble on this year: >truly awesome, shambling destructo-drone pleasure. >Too much. I was just eyeing the other Swedish >reissues on Subliminal and Silence; are these as good? >Same vein? certainly so in the case of trad, gras & stenar, algarnas tradgard, international harvester, and harvester. check out folke rabe/bo-anders persson split on wergo if you can find it. ake hodell and rune lindblad are also definitely worth your time. a great rune linblad exhibition CD and 12" have also just recently been released on firework records featuring tracks by jean-louis huhta, brommage dub, leif elggren, edvard grahm lewis, kent tankred, bj nilsen, cm von hausswolff, annika hausswolff and magnus haglund with new material from rune lindblad. the samla mammas manna releases are fun stuff, but not at all in the above vein. more information here: http://w1.864.telia.com/~u86409607/bands.htm >Finally, and unrelated, anyone heard ETHIOPIQUES vol. >11, HARP OF DAVID, by the lyrist Alemu Aga? I keep >hearing it recommended in terms of its "psychedelic" >qualities (one reviewer made a glib comparison to >Paerson Sound, but hey...) , but it looks interesting >enough without drug likening. nope, but the series as a whole so far has been an utter blast. - rdf. np. cosey fanni tutti - time to tell nr. cosey fanni tutti - time to tell hm - this is a side of throbbing gristle i wasn't familar with. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Revue des Fossiles" Subject: cragale Date: 20 Dec 2001 22:38:32 -0800 >I feel compelled to ask whether this means that Cragale Muon has released 2 >different sets of 101 discs each. and as long as I'm inquiring, who's >Cragale >Muon? cragale is a label and store in yokohama that is dedicated to documenting the underground scene of improvisation, new-wave, no-wave, and psychedelia that happened in japan around the same time that haino and co. first popped up over at club minor in tokyo. that time period being the late 70's - early 80s. the second muon series is a 101 (so far) cd-r set of stunning releases on this label which live and studio perormances from tamio shiraishi, luna park ensemble, inryo fuen, akebo noise, a-musik, bunretu, the electric vedda ensemble, mizumashi, asahito nanjo (performing as red), lewisite, the ptas, kurana roza, and more than a few other groups and artists whom i'm probably forgetting. before anyone asks, no john zorn isn't on any of these discs. here's a link to their list of cd-rs for sale with mp3 samples - http://muon2.hoops.livedoor.com/shop.htm play around with the name cragale+muon in any search engine and you'll find lots of other pages dedicated to discussions about this material. also check out. http://www.nowhere-records.com/ as they have some of the actual cragale singles, flexis, and vinyl for sale. - rdf. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: Re: cragale Date: 21 Dec 2001 02:50:55 -0500 At 22:38 20/12/01 -0800, Revue des Fossiles wrote: >cragale is a label and store in yokohama that is dedicated to documenting >the underground scene of improvisation, new-wave, no-wave, and psychedelia >that happened in japan around the same time that haino and co. first >popped up over at club minor in tokyo. that time period being the late >70's - early 80s. the second muon series is a 101 (so far) cd-r set of >stunning releases on this label You beat me to replying, as I was rummaging through the "Japanese Independent Music" book for some info on cragale records - which I have to credit my fantastic girlfriend for getting me as an early christmas gift!... - at the same time as I was listening to their samples (which unfortunately are way too short, though in some cases a few seconds is all I feel I need to hear...), and, not unlike a champollion, trying to solve other mysteries, as for instance the dates of the recordings (which are all between 1980 and 1990). So these are archival recordings... Not that the www.nowhere-records.com site is easy to navigate either. They don't seem very big on translating things for gaigin... So I have nothing to add to your description. The only name on cragale that I have and you didn't mention is Yoshida Daisuke. Shiraishi Tamio is said to be living in NY now: "sound research is even more extreme than Zorn's in the high-pitched zones" [whatever], "and is sometimes mixed with vocals which call to mind frenetic bird songs". I have yet to hear. But, simple curiosity, are the 101 titles available separately? - and, I might add, if so, how do you know what is what? Thank you! Benjamin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" Subject: Re: top 10 Date: 21 Dec 2001 08:50:04 +0100 > It's 22 tracks, with Erkin Koray being on a few, but mostly different bands > -- Yabancular, Mogollar, Yabancular, Baris Manco, and Apaslar among them. In fact during my record canvassing trip in Turkey I see many high priced Manco and Mogollar Lps. > Also, the instruments themselves -- espec the older Middle > Eastern eletric keyboards -- make Joe Meek sound like Jimmy Jam & Terry > Lewis. I do not know the latest mentioned gentlemen, but I thought that Eastern keyboards (I presume keyboards that would allow players to use what we call "microtones" but are normal notes in the Turkish system of 54 notes every two octaves) are a recent addition. Of course Turkish musicians would use to that effect the coninuous pitch variation present on vary synthesizers. > The stuff I don't like is the later stuff (post 1970), as it tends toward > prog rock, which I personally dislike as a rule. On the contrary, it seems that the player you mentioned are very appreciated by prog rock fans (I still do not know any definition of prog rock apart from a list of people who played it). have you seen that Belgian website about Turksh Prog? Francesco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: top 10 Date: 21 Dec 2001 00:03:20 -0800 >> It's 22 tracks, with Erkin Koray being on a few, but mostly different > bands >> -- Yabancular, Mogollar, Yabancular, Baris Manco, and Apaslar among them. > > In fact during my record canvassing trip in Turkey I see many high priced > Manco and Mogollar Lps. Apparently they're quite the cult item, from what I am told. > >> Also, the instruments themselves -- espec the older Middle >> Eastern eletric keyboards -- make Joe Meek sound like Jimmy Jam & Terry >> Lewis. > > I do not know the latest mentioned gentlemen, but I thought that Eastern > keyboards (I presume keyboards that would allow players to use what we call > "microtones" but are normal notes in the Turkish system of 54 notes every > two octaves) are a recent addition. Of course Turkish musicians would use to > that effect the coninuous pitch variation present on vary synthesizers. The keyboards are definitely western-tuned, but they're generally poor copies of popular western keyboards (Farfisa organs, mellotrons) not unlike the cheesy keyboards of 60s Chinese pop records. Joe Meek was an English record producer equal parts Phil Spector and (I mean this in the best way) Edward D. Wood Jr. He was a brilliant guy and developed some of the best early outboard gear, produced some fantastic records, and was completely out of his mind. Getting started on Meek would probably throw the list into a frenzy, or at least it should. > >> The stuff I don't like is the later stuff (post 1970), as it tends toward >> prog rock, which I personally dislike as a rule. > > On the contrary, it seems that the player you mentioned are very appreciated > by prog rock fans (I still do not know any definition of prog rock apart > from a list of people who played it). Perhaps, but the earlier stuff is more pop-psyche, which I like. > > have you seen that Belgian website about Turksh Prog? > No. You got a URL for it? I should know more of Erkin Koray. best -- skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: Re: cragale Date: 21 Dec 2001 03:09:32 -0500 PS: to answer Jon's question, I was (nevertheless) under the impression that the "2nd" is attached to "Muon 2nd" - which would be the street name or location of the venue / label, not a second series of 100+ CD-R. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Vuilleumier=2C_St=E9phane=22?= Subject: RE: Ethiopiques 11 / Top Ten 2001 Date: 21 Dec 2001 09:02:50 +0100 > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Handley [mailto:thesubtlebody@yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 5:04 AM > To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: Top Ten 2001 >=20 > Finally, and unrelated, anyone heard ETHIOPIQUES vol. > 11, HARP OF DAVID, by the lyrist Alemu Aga? I keep > hearing it recommended in terms of its "psychedelic" > qualities (one reviewer made a glib comparison to > Paerson Sound, but hey...) , but it looks interesting > enough without drug likening. That would be on my top ten list of the year. Reading about Ethiopiques 11 beforehand, I thought it would be=20 some kind of religious church music!=20 It's: soothing, meditative, primitive and trance-like.=20 Repetitive. Authentic? Ethiopian Zen... Peaceful strength.=20 Just voice and "harp", sounds a lot like luth or a bass even - I heard that Peter Kowald was desperate to get it at the time it first came out on Long Distance (I think).=20 Probably the only record this year I listened to 3 times in a row. OK, if I'm at it, here are another few 2001 ones of my favourites, but as for other contributors, free improv LPs and catching up with previous goodies was a major part of my musical pleasure this year. Oh, I almost forgot: no zorn this time round. Big Youth - Natty Universal Dread (Blood and Fire) Alan Silva and the Celestial Communication Orchestra - Seasons (Get Back reissue)=20 4 Walls - And The World Ain=B4t Square Fred Frith - Clearing Guy/Crispell/Oxley - Odyssey (Intakt) Stefan Wittwer - Streams (Grob) Steamboat Switzerland - Budapest (Grob) Spring Heel Jack - Masses Kelley-Lescalleet - Forlorn Green (favourite Erstwhile this year for some reason, but not because it's from=20 the latest batch) and the 11th would have to be Manu Chao Proxima Estacion: Esperanza St=E9phane - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Drimala.com (or, let me help you spend money) Date: 21 Dec 2001 03:08:55 EST Anyone with extra money from now until the end of the year may want to check this place out. Some of the labels in their listings: AUM Fidelity, Altavistic, Cryptogramophone, Eremite, Erstwhile, bunches more. 30% discount until December 31, free shipping within the U.S., plus a free CD from the Accretions label with each order. Wow. << http://www.drimala.com >> I have *no* affiliation with this outfit whatsoever...just helping your music collection and the U.S. economy...;-) -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se (Stephen Fruitman) Subject: Re: my favorites of this year Date: 21 Dec 2001 09:09:58 +0100 (MET) >Low - Things we lost in the fire Speaking of which: Highly recommended is their collaboration CD with The Dirty Three, _In the Aquarium_ (Konkurrent). Includes a mesmerizing version of Neil Young=B4s _Down By the River_. Regards, Stephen Stephen Fruitman Dept of Historical Studies Ume=E5 University SE-901 87 Ume=E5 Sweden - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "viguier" Subject: Best of 2001 Date: 21 Dec 2001 09:24:57 +0100 Evan Lurie - Chochin Ribot - The saints White Stripes - White blood cells Mary Gauthier - Drag queens in limousines Zorn - Tous ses disques The Strokes - Is this it ? (a real pleasure and a real energy, why do you want alwys find something new and different ??) James Carter - layin' in the cut -----Message d'origine----- De : nors5379 À : zorn-list@lists.xmission.com ; zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Date : jeudi 20 décembre 2001 22:43 Objet : best of 2001 >hi - > >i've been a lurker since august but lists like these tempt >me to voice my opinion and working at a cd store doesnt help >either (does anybody else have this problem? my whole >paycheck goes toward recommendations and orders grrr haha) >i was introduced to zorn around june and became immediately >obsessed with his work. and with that introduction came many >other artists that i have grown to love in the last 6 >months. so much of my list is comprised of those discs and >me going back and picking up discs that i heard in my teen >years and didnt appreciate at the time. so here it goes... >its not 10 and its long! >-darryl. > >trevor dunn's trio convulsant - debutantes & centipedes >john zorn - the gift, masada - gimel, naked city (elektra) >marc ribot - cubanos postivos (both) & saints >lounge lizards - live in berlin vol. 1 & 2, queen of all >ears >charlie hunter - songs from the analog playground >tj kirk - both discs >james carter - layin' in the cut >leon parker - awakening >matt darraiu's paradox trio - flying at a slant >jacob fred jazz odyssey - self is gone >olu dara - neighborhoods >david byrne - look into the eyeball >radiohead - amenesiac >disco biscuits - they missed the perfume >morphine - the night & bootleg detroit >chocolate genius - both discs >either/orchestra - across the omniverse >tom waits - all that i acquired! >mr. bungle - all. > >best shows... >9/19/01 - david byrne >6/22-23/01, 10/24 & 26/01 - medeski, martin and wood >8/4/01 - the word >8/11/01 & 11/17/01 - jacob fred jazz odyssey >5/1?/01 - black eyed peas & de la soul (hip hop shows can be >fun!) >8/10/01 - galactic >8/12/01 - spontaneous improvisation w/ medeski, reid, >singleton & moses >4/6/01 - miracle orchestra >..so many countless others. > >Darryl Norsen >db.etree.org/shortround >nors5379@fredonia.edu >volerniemickey@hotmail.com > >"JAZZ is my religion and it alone do I dig. The jazz clubs >are my houses of worship and sometimes the concert halls, >but some holy places are too commercial (like churches) so I >dont dig the sermons there. I buy jazz sides to dig in >solitude." - Feinstein > > >- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis Subject: Re: AFX Date: 21 Dec 2001 04:30:47 -0600 Actually I quite prefer everything else BUT the prepared piano pieces. On Thu, Dec 20, 2001 at 04:41:39PM -0500, UFOrbK8@aol.com wrote: > i would also postulise that the majority of the new album is old material, with the plausible exception of the prepared piano pieces... which i think make the album listenable. :) > > kp > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Drimala.com (or, let me help you spend money) Date: 21 Dec 2001 06:13:54 EST another reason to recommend Drimala, from a different perspective, is that they're great about paying the labels they work with (as are North Country, Anomalous and Forced Exposure in the US). their web site is very nicely set up also. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: cragale Date: 21 Dec 2001 06:20:04 EST In a message dated 12/21/01 2:48:33 AM, pequet@altern.org writes: << Shiraishi Tamio is said to be living in NY now >> yeah, he occasionally plays shows here. the last ones I heard of were a weekend series about six months ago with percussionist Sean Meehan, three nights at different outdoor locales, all around the West Side Highway. he also used to sit in occasionally with the No Neck Blues Band, and is on one of their CDs, I believe, don't remember which one. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Poisonhead@aol.com Subject: French Bands(No Zorn) Date: 21 Dec 2001 06:42:56 EST A quick question to the list... I am trying to find a mailorder service here in states that carries the odd child-like (mostly french) bands. I own most of Klimperei's discs, Pascal Camelade, & Pierre Bastien. But really looking for dragibus. Wayside carries the "In Poly Sons" label. Any other suggestions. Thanks in advance! Andrew - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Revue des Fossiles" Subject: Re: cragale Date: 21 Dec 2001 06:56:02 -0800 >But, simple >curiosity, are the 101 titles available separately? yes, they are. >- and, I might add, if >so, how do you know what is what? i don't exactly follow you here . . . if you're wondering what groups are worth searching out i've already provided my opinion. if you feel you need more information beyond what is provided at the cragale sites try looking at some sources beyond the sincerely well intentioned but rather haphazard tome that stoefer 'coordinated'. better yet, drop cragale an email with your questions and concerns. i found it was well worth my time, but i'm a 'maniac' (as the japanese say) for this kind of stuff. - rdf. >Thank you! > >Benjamin > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kurt Gottschalk" Subject: blood Date: 21 Dec 2001 15:59:34 +0000 hi -- i've been reading through the ulmer posts and surprised that the comments keep hovering around my big question without answering it. i'm quite a blood fan, love to see him live, love odyssey (the first one moreso), aren't you glad to be in america, tales of capt. black, and the veryfine harmolodic guitar with strings and music speaks louder than words. in other words, not the blues stuff. i think his blues records, the ones i've heard, rot. i gave him another shot, tho, with 'forbidden blues', which was only somewhat better, i thought. haven't heard 'blue blood' or 'sun sessions.' is he actually doing interesting blues now, rather than 'blues all night' crap? i've got a pretty good blues collection, but have little interest in big boom blues, with a bunch of people playing the same damn riff over and over loud as they can. john lee, lightnin hopkins, those guys are the real shit. so is sun sessions worth my while? skip h esp, pls answr. -kg _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: best of (long) Date: 21 Dec 2001 17:10:33 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- > Lars Gustaffson - Tale of a Dog (New Directions) Hi, What's that one like? I'm an old fan of his writing - i even recommended his works to some people on this list list and they seemed to like them - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: blood Date: 21 Dec 2001 09:47:45 -0800 > > so is sun sessions worth my while? skip h esp, pls answr. > > -kg > It's got lotsa mean nasty guitar tone, attitude vocals all the way home, and does not suffer fr the same syndrome the turns the average contemp blues record into sometihng that sounds like beer commercial music. College frat boys will likely hate it. Plus I love the way it's recorded. I think it's a fantastic-sounding record. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Trenkel Subject: Re: top 10 Date: 21 Dec 2001 09:51:05 -0800 > >Joe Meek was an English record producer equal parts Phil Spector and (I mean >this in the best way) Edward D. Wood Jr. He was a brilliant guy and >developed some of the best early outboard gear, produced some fantastic >records, and was completely out of his mind. Getting started on Meek would >probably throw the list into a frenzy, or at least it should. Of what's currently available, where do you recommend getting started w/Meek? -- Dave Trenkel New and Improv Music http://www.newandimprov.com improv@peak.org Now Available: Minus: Dark Lit "This is music all-consuming in its beauty and power" -Jake TenPas OSU Daily Barometer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: top 10 Date: 21 Dec 2001 09:51:06 -0800 >> >> Joe Meek was an English record producer equal parts Phil Spector and (I mean >> this in the best way) Edward D. Wood Jr. He was a brilliant guy and >> developed some of the best early outboard gear, produced some fantastic >> records, and was completely out of his mind. Getting started on Meek would >> probably throw the list into a frenzy, or at least it should. > > Of what's currently available, where do you recommend getting started w/Meek? IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE IT on Razor & Tie, which is a greatest hits overview, or I HEAR A NEW WORLD (don't know which label, but it's out), which was his magnum opus. Anybody wanna jump in here? There are a bunch of collections, and the two I've named are the most bedrock-basic. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew" Subject: Re: top 10 Date: 21 Dec 2001 13:10:20 -0500 > Of what's currently available, where do you recommend getting started w/Meek? Two discs- the razor and tie compilation (i can't remember the name right now) and then the reissue of "I hear a new world." That's actually pretty much all that's available from Meek out there...but he knocked out some amazing stuff in his time ("telstar" and "night of the vampire" are my two favorites). I believe someone recently published a biography of him; he was an interesting, fucked-up guy. He was into drugs, was a promiscuous homosexual with a taste for younger men, and finally flipped out and blasted his landlady with a shotgun when she came to evict him (before blowing his own brains out). It should be a good read, next to that recent Serge Gainsbourg bio. :) andrew - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: top 10 Date: 21 Dec 2001 10:20:49 -0800 >> Of what's currently available, where do you recommend getting started > w/Meek? > > Two discs- the razor and tie compilation (i can't remember the name right > now) and then the reissue of "I hear a new world." That's actually pretty > much all that's available from Meek out there...but he knocked out some > amazing stuff in his time ("telstar" and "night of the vampire" are my two > favorites). > > I believe someone recently published a biography of him; he was an > interesting, fucked-up guy. He was into drugs, was a promiscuous homosexual > with a taste for younger men, and finally flipped out and blasted his > landlady with a shotgun when she came to evict him (before blowing his own > brains out). > > It should be a good read, next to that recent Serge Gainsbourg bio. :) > > andrew > > Andrew's on the money here, except that there about about eight compilation discs covering every nook & cranny of his output, on some British label whose name I can't remember. sh - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew" Subject: Re: top 10 Date: 21 Dec 2001 13:20:46 -0500 > Andrew's on the money here, except that there about about eight compilation > discs covering every nook & cranny of his output, on some British label > whose name I can't remember. Wow- that's interesting. I'm surprised that someone hasn't issued a Meek boxed set yet. I didn't realize that there was that much other stuff floating around. Then again, I just remembered that he did a lot of "normal" prodcution work before getting all experimental and whacked out. :) andrew - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: top 10 Date: 21 Dec 2001 10:28:50 -0800 >> Andrew's on the money here, except that there about about eight > compilation >> discs covering every nook & cranny of his output, on some British label >> whose name I can't remember. > > Wow- that's interesting. I'm surprised that someone hasn't issued a Meek > boxed set yet. I didn't realize that there was that much other stuff > floating around. Then again, I just remembered that he did a lot of "normal" > prodcution work before getting all experimental and whacked out. :) > > andrew > Even his relatively normal stuff has dark edges about it, not to mention some sort of sonic interest about it. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Westergaard" Subject: RE: top 10 Date: 21 Dec 2001 13:47:54 -0500 >compilation discs covering every nook & cranny of his output, on some British label >whose name I can't remember. they're on Sequel/Castle - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: Help from Japanese speaking members (Extremely Non_ZC) Date: 13 Dec 2001 15:15:53 -0400 Hello list, I'm sorry to use this list for this reason but I have a japanese exam soon and I have this little problem. How do you say "I went to your house to study" in japanese. Thanks in advance and again, I'm sorry to use the list like this. Obviously, please reply off list. Neil H. Enet ------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeton Ademaj" Subject: Sharrock/Zorn/Race Date: 16 Dec 2001 03:41:34 -0500 [here's a post from last week that bounced because it was too large. - mike] Hi All, I agree with Steve on all points except Iron Path's worthiness. It may be because Iron Path was the 1st album of theirs I heard (next was the 1st) and that I'd read about it in Tower Record's "Pulse" and in it's liner notes as being entirely concieved as a studio album in the 'rock band' sense: Bill and Shannon would workout rhythmic ideas together, Sonny would solo over those and Peter would solo over the 3 of them and then Bill did post-production. I think some of the stuff sounds fill-ery ("Black Bat..." anyone?) but a few, like "Prayer", "Iron Path" and "The Fire Drum" are beautiful trax, and Brotzmann (and any musician) can be pointlessly cranky about his output anyway. FYI: the last coupla minutes on "Red Light" from the s/t release is as fine a grand-power finale as anything ever done by anyone, anywhere, ever. Also, I still get a titanic kick from Sonny's lunatic guitar work on "Koln", which actually chronicles Last Exit's first meeting (by Bailey's rule, always the best). Take some acid (or perhaps speed) and listen to "Brain Damage", but u cannot steal laswell's demon bassline at the end of Sonny's solo and sample it to a rap trak, cuz i did! On the 'period' tip, I think that February 1994, when Sonny played every monday night at the old knit, was one of the most important months in the history of the guitar. I saw like 5 of those shows, and am still haunted I didn't catch more, cuz I was close to tears every set. He was finally doing full terror and full awe and full beauty IN EVERY LINE. "Dick Dogs" was wayy uptempo, and more distorted and sexual. "14" came out in several bizarre, trans-astral forms, and he played with a lean trio, instead of the larger band which I felt fleshed out some of his ideas at the cost of his guitar. His sound by then was a lot thicker than on Last Exit releases, very warm, yet just as or even more distorted. I remember being satisfied that he finally found a way to make all that (what I at the time felt was) sugary crap gel with his uttermost ferocity. I'd never doubted my memories of those shows, but thankfully someone (guess who)gave me a bunch of sonny tapes, including Marzette, Monkey, Blak woman n byard lancaster, and also some tapes from those 2/94 shows. Just as I recalled...I think somewhere around spring '93 Sonny must have had some kinda epiphany or something, because starting with this Sonny/Pharoah duet in DC, he seems to play at this whole new level where he's shamelessly Rawk! and avant and jazz with great joy, great agression, great serenity...wahhh wahhhh wahhh. Now, after years of literal hunting, I just got Pharoah Sanders "Izipho Zam" on vinyl, DMG Bruce sez it's out beyond "Monkey pockey boo" and I have no turntable!!!! arrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!! Anyone see the Bailey/Zorn/Baron/Workman sets at Tonic tonite? I thought they were glorious, with some drama, musical and otherwise. Full Disclosure: while I was enjoying doobage toward the back fukn Zorn threw my coat off my seat (which I'd waited since 5:45pm for!) and took the seat on stage! When I got back I noticed, and replaced the chair with a folding one I nabbed. Then I sat down and had Zorn wink at me, and I remember y I hate all those "Mentos" commercials. So, 1st piece 1st set, Reggie's getting drowned out in the (quite nice) din, after I yell "yer low in the mix" to him and he cranks up. I think it saved him, cuz even with the newfound power-in-reserve his hands were in very obvious pain, as Steve Dalachinsky reminded me when he berated me for kicking the stage yelling "Encorrrre!!!". Set2: After Reggie put out this really majestic sounding deep bassline, Zorn initiated what I felt was the highlight of the evening, when his mouthpiece playing transformed from the post-raspberries he was sometimes blowing at Reggie into this wild, insectoid oscillation with this folded-hands/butterfly-wings approach. It drew this soaring, high shimmer from derek and joey, with reggie bowing these lovely filligrees. FYI, Zorn's raspberries mostly focused on what he apparently considered to be corny aspects of Workman's playing, particularly Reggie's spinning one of those twirlers and using another like a tom abbs-eridoo. Frankly, I liked it. I thought Reggie gave beauty and a different kind of power to their set. I'm not sure I've heard Derek sound that lyrical before... at times it was a sort of Cosmic Disco travelling at Warp-Factor Joey. I was so down for that show when it was the 3, but when Reg joined I literally got goosebumps. I was soooo glad to be there. I wonder how much Zorn was affected by the pre-show, when not 3 minutes after he said "no comps for me! and Phil freeman and so- and so- pay double!" but Freeman himself comes walking up to him, saying he got in on the guestlist! Of course Zorn confronted him about "aren't I the devil or something" and then dismissed him. (Freeman gave it a try :"no, i don't hate u, I'm a writer...") Steve (Smith), awhile back I remember you asked if anyone still thought Zorn rips off Jazz. Well, I assure you there are a number of major musicians who feel that way. It may be due to misiformation or misunderstanding, but I've spoken to artists who have quoted Zorn as saying that he founded Masada so he wouldn't owe anything to Black Music, or that he doesn't partake of it, or somesuch (it varies slightly). Now on the other hand, I got told tonite by another friend that the quote they heard was Zorn claimed he founded Masada cuz he was AFRAID of being ACCUSED of stealing, and so wanted to draw from a 'native' tradition (klezmer(?)). Personally, I think it's 6 of one, half-doz of the other. 1st off, I refuse to accept the proposition that a 20th-21st Century Western man (who's not severely autistic or otherwise impaired, or raised in a hole) can even PICK UP a saxophone without being influenced by the pool of largely black musicians that has imprinted the entire morphogenetic field with their creativity on that instrument. But so fukn what? This is another case of the relatively very recent phenomena of artistic imperialism based on the technological commodification of performance. In past centuries, that one's music was influenced by others was obvious. The recognition that one is always borrowing and stealing balanced with the fears of being called a plagiarist or talentless. There might also be religious or quasi-religious issues involved ("you're stealing our sacred beat/chord/melody/sound/way...") With recording tech, now there is the added weight of "Hey! Besides my ideas, you're also stealing my and my whole community's cultural economy of scale!" I find that logic to be pristine aside from it's fatal flaw: that economy of scale lacks stability anyway, and is inherently exploitable. The same grand evolutionary process that created a world where Zorn can hear Xenakis, Coltrane, Zappa, Slayer n Snoop Dogg and be inspired by them is the same world in which we will soon, all of us, be able to walk into any space and record an audio-visual facsimile of it in very high res without being detected, even by Zorn. Then we'll naturally be able to fax our hi-res memories to anyone and everyone on earth. This is utterly inevitable, only Apocalypse can stop it (oops, oh me oh my!) ...What will happen to the vocational/economic models of artists (including Zorn and those who fear he's ripping them off) at THAT point? As for whatever it is Zorn REALLY said and REALLY feels on the issue of 'black music', I don't actually know. Fate has oddly brought me to play ombudsman in many situations, including a long-term antipathy between Joe Morris and Zorn that turned out to be over nothing. In this case I'd ask Zorn, but the (musically inspiring) asshole threw my coat on the floor. Peace all! (PS to Rob Pleshar n Bill Ashline, I owe u2 rebuttal over on Avantlist, soon, soon...I actually heard another Cecil story tonite that made me laugh at Bill's comment about "I've heard alot of bullshit about Cecil, but none of it is relevant or credible" or somesuch. Information is always relevant to understanding, but what kind of understanding do we want versus what do we need/should have/deserve) PPS to the list: I also recall the whole 'radical islamic culture' thread, and as a gay white muslim with a slightly wild background, a budding artistic career and soupcon of exhibitionistic chutzpah, what threshold of credibility should I cross before adopting this particularly marketable but possibly suicidal label? Should I take an avowed religious position/posture? Should I just study Zorn and fax his approach? Have I permanently barred myself from the label with this musing? Should I be so sincere that the term Shazams! into my typing fingers prior to any conscious thought, lest i be merely exploitative? ;) >Moving backward, pick up a disc by Last Exit, the punk-free jazz > >supergroup that also included Peter Brotzmann, Laswell and Ronald > >Shannon Jackson. The studio disc 'Iron Path' is to be avoided by all >but >the utmost Laswell fan (and those who own all the other discs), >but aside >from that, it's hard to go wrong. My favorite is 'Cassette >Recordings '87' >on Celluloid, also available under as 'From the >Boards' on Enemy and under >one of those titles on Charly, too, I >think. Just to chime in -- as if I could do anything but after such a thorough (as usual!) response by Mr. Steve Smith -- but my favorite Last Exit Cd is the first, self-titled one. I've probably mentioned that on the list three or four times on the list since I've been on it. I also remember someone else here saying one time that he hated it so much that he placed it in a dish of water and microwaved it (don't ask me why I remember that), so it obviously doesn't do it for everyone. But for me it is a pinnacle of what free jazz-meets-noise rock (or 'punk') could ever possibly be. Completely assaultive, intense stuff from a supergroup that actually lives up to its potential ... You can find these things used or fairly cheap pretty easily if you try. For what it is worth I also did not enjoy the Iron Path studio LP, because that type of slick production is totally at odds with this type of music, to my ears. Also, as Steve sort of mentioned, if you can find Herbie Mann's 'Memphis Underground' (I think that's it -- whichever one has that version of "Hold On, I'm Comin') for cheap, it's worth it because his freak-out guitar solos on there are so totally incongruous and out of place. It's really bizarre ... definitely worth hearing, but I couldn't go so far as to say it's "classic" like Ask the Ages or Last Exit. I also read in a great, very in-depth interview with Sharrock in Guitar Player magazine (!) from like 1990 that he is on Miles Davis' 'Tribute to Jack Johnson' towards the end of the second track, and listening to it that makes sense. Apolgies if this is common knowledge, but he is uncredited on that album ... _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: provisional apologies Date: 19 Dec 2001 12:54:59 +0100 ["subscribe" and "help" are keywords to avoid if you want your message to the list processed automatically...and quickly. ;) -- mike] There are some keywords like subscribe, help and some more which redirect messages to the listowner and should be avoided in normal messages. This could be the easiest solution of your problem... Andreas np: Hassan Hakmoun / Gift Of The Gnawa >From: "Jeton Ademaj" > >time will tell. i'll try rewriting and posting it again, and see if that >works _________________________________________________________________ Testen Sie MSN Messenger für Ihren Online-Chat mit Freunden: http://messenger.msn.de - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Kayser" Subject: Drimala Date: 21 Dec 2001 15:32:09 -0500 Just another good word about Drimala. A few months back I ordered a Bill Cole CD. They mistakenly sent the wrong volume. Their response? "Oh, just keep that one and we'll send you the right one." Now that's a very cool way to cultivate customers. Thought you all would like to hear that. BTW, anyone on the list hear the new AMM "Fine?" I was rather disappointed in their last effort, so any input on the new one would help. Alan Kayser _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeni Dahmus" Subject: best of 2001 Date: 21 Dec 2001 15:37:31 -0500 I haven't had adequate time to absorb all my new CD purchases, so I'll just list concerts, films, and a few books. NYC concert highlights, chronological order: -Jon Deak solo contrabass, works by Eyvind Kang and Trevor Dunn, Merkin Hall -Hans Werner Henze lecture/demonstration, Piano Quintet, Juilliard -RonRuins, Tonic -Soldier String Quartet plays Elliott Sharp, Tonic -Merce Cunningham Dance Company, City Center -Senior Dance Productions, Juilliard: particularly Juan Rodriguez's Divided by Three, set to Michael Gordon's Weather -Berg's Lulu, Metropolitan Opera -Orchestra Carbon performs SyndaKit, Central Park Bandshell -Cobra 9/29, Tonic (one of the best Cobras I've seen) -Zorn's Chimeras; K.S. Sorabji's Prelude, Interlude, and Fugue; Carter's Enchanted Preludes; Bach arias; Bargemusic (Pianist Stephen Gosling's performance of Sorabji's monster piece was phenomenal!) -Fantomas, Knitting Factory & Anthology Film Archives -The Dismemberment Plan, Bowery Ballroom -ICP, Tonic -Composer Portrait: Zorn, Miller Theatre Film of the year: -Thus Spake Zarathustra by Nick Zedd and Jon Vomit, based on Nietzsche's book; b&w silent film with fabulous soundtrack by Fear of Dolls, The Zyklon Beatles, Amniotic Miasma and Strangewalls! (Zedd's newest film premieres at Collective Unconscious tonight, 10 pm) Other films: -Ghost World, Terry Zwigoff/Daniel Clowes -Pie in the Sky: the Brigid Berlin Story, Shelly Dunn Fremont/Vincent Fremont -Downtown 81, Edo Bertoglio, and exhibit -Mulholland Drive, David Lynch Oldies but goodies (I should have seen more films this year. Due to limited budget, I often rent videos instead): -The Kingdom series, Lars von Trier -Zoo: A Zed & Two Noughts, Peter Greenaway -Julien Donkey Boy, Harmony Korine -La Grand Bouffe, Marco Ferreri -1984, Michael Radford=20 New fiction titles (nonfiction accounts for most of my reading): -Nothing by Paul Morley (a special book) -Widow Basquiat by Jennifer Clement (actually nonfiction in prose format) -Filler Bunny comic by Jhonen Vasquez=20 Jeni - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Re: A complicated Coltrane quartet concert question! Date: 21 Dec 2001 15:51:05 EST --part1_142.6c0583f.2954fab9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Happy Holidays to all, and a big "thank you" to everyone (especially Steve Smith) that responded with help and insight into my Coltrane Quartet question. Dale. --part1_142.6c0583f.2954fab9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Happy Holidays to all, and a big "thank you" to everyone (especially Steve Smith) that responded with help and insight into my Coltrane Quartet question.

Dale. --part1_142.6c0583f.2954fab9_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ryan Novak Subject: Re: Sharrock/Guitar Player Date: 21 Dec 2001 12:52:57 -0800 (PST) >I also read in a great, very in-depth interview with >Sharrock in Guitar >Player magazine (!) No need for exclamation or surprise on my part- I've thought that, up until a few years ago, Guitar Player was a great magazine that really seemed to make it a point to cover avant-garde and experimental guitar music. Their 30th anniversary issue contained 30 short articles on ground-breaking guitarists, and Keith Rowe and Derek Bailey were among many other avant-gardists. Now the magazine is more typical (due to a few obviously influential staff leaving), but is still more diverse than many others- although I don't subscribe anymore. ---Ryan N. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: Re: Sharrock/Guitar Player Date: 21 Dec 2001 16:24:39 -0500 >up until a few years ago, Guitar Player was a great magazine that >really seemed to make it a point to cover avant-garde and >experimental guitar music. Their 30th anniversary Wasn't Henry Kaiser a contributing (or advisory) editor? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: [fred] Frith & Zorn Date: 21 Dec 2001 21:54:13 +0000 About Frith & Zorn duos.... "Art of Memory" is nice, but I still think they can do much better. My favorite track is the one where Zorn goes into cicular breathing, and Frith lays down a wall of rumbling noise behind him. I prefer Frith's guitar playing when it's at it's most experimental and noisy or at it's most quiet and melodic. I'm not a big fan of when he gets into "normal rock distortion"-stuff. I always wondered why they didn't release the 1988 Victoriaville concert instead. Maybe this could be a future job for Fred Records??? I know for sure that very good recordings exist, becaue I have one from Canadian radio. And the playing is amazing!!! Both Frith and Zorn are really in top shape!! Especially Frith totally blew away at this concert. I like "Clearing" and think it's one of the best CDs of the year, but I would love to see Frith get into even more composed and perhaps melodic stuff. In the Victoriaville concert there an amazing track where Frith plays some very bluesy stuff, but still pretty wicked. I would love to hear some more solo stuff like that. Maybe even some covers of old blues songs??? _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Sharrock/Zorn/Race Date: 21 Dec 2001 23:26:14 +0000 >From: "Jeton Ademaj" >Subject: Sharrock/Zorn/Race >(PS to Rob Pleshar n Bill Ashline, I owe u2 rebuttal over on Avantlist, >soon, soon...I actually heard another Cecil story tonite that made me laugh >at Bill's comment about "I've heard alot of bullshit about Cecil, but none >of it is relevant or credible" or somesuch. Information is always relevant >to understanding, but what kind of understanding do we want versus what do >we need/should have/deserve) I wait with baited breath :-) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Subject: Another best of list Date: 21 Dec 2001 23:11:20 -0500 --=====================_23997085==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed 1. Bjork - Vespertine (Elektra) 2. Tortoise - Standards (Thrill Jockey) 3. New Order - Get Ready (Reprise) 4. Miles Davis - The Complete In A Silent Way Sessions (Columbia) 5. Fantomas - The Director's Cut (Ipecac) 6. Tomahawk - s/t (Ipecac) 7. OST - The Princess and the Warrior (Superb / Traoma Records) 8. OST - Ghost World 9. John Oswald - Plunderphonics 69/96 (fony / Seeland) 10. Air - 10 000 Hz Legend (Astralwerks) 11. Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds - No More Shall We Part (Reprise) 12. Bill Frisell - With Dave Holland and Elvin Jones (Nonesuch) 13. Jah Wobble & Bill Laswell - Radioaxiom: A Dub Transmission (Palm) 14. John Zorn - Music Romance Vol. 3: The Gift (Tzadik) The Charley Patton box on Revenant will make the list somewhere near the top. I am getting it as a Christmas gift and know I will love it. --=====================_23997085==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by po.cwru.edu id fBM4DDP07870 1. Bjork - Vespertine=20 (Elektra)
2. Tortoise - Standards (Thrill Jockey)
3. New Order - Get Ready (Reprise)
4. Miles Davis - The Complete In A Silent Way Sessions (Columbia)
5. Fantomas - The Director=92s Cut (Ipecac)
6. Tomahawk  - s/t (Ipecac)
7. OST - The Princess and the Warrior (Superb / Traoma Records)
8. OST - Ghost World
9. John Oswald - Plunderphonics 69/96 (fony / Seeland)
10. Air - 10 000 Hz Legend (Astralwerks)
11. Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds - No More Shall We Part (Reprise)
12. Bill Frisell - With Dave Holland and Elvin Jones (Nonesuch)
13. Jah Wobble & Bill Laswell - Radioaxiom: A Dub Transmission (Palm)
14. John Zorn - Music Romance Vol. 3: The Gift (Tzadik)

The Charley Patton box on Revenant will make the list somewhere near the top. I am getting it as a Christmas gift and know I will love it.

--=====================_23997085==_.ALT-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Sharrock/Zorn/Race Date: 22 Dec 2001 00:06:06 -0600 On Sun, Dec 16, 2001 at 03:41:34AM -0500, Jeton Ademaj wrote: > The same grand > evolutionary process that created a world where Zorn can hear Xenakis, > Coltrane, Zappa, Slayer n Snoop Dogg and be inspired by them is the same > world in which we will soon, all of us, be able to walk into any space and > record an audio-visual facsimile of it in very high res without being > detected, even by Zorn. Well, it's been tried, but Zorn eventually *did* detect the webcam at the Knit :-) -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Another best of list Date: 22 Dec 2001 01:29:24 -0800 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3091829364_3133568_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The Charley Patton box on Revenant will make the list somewhere near the top. I am getting it as a Christmas gift and know I will love it. It's absolutely cosmic. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com --MS_Mac_OE_3091829364_3133568_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: Another best of list


The Charley Patton box on Revenant will make the list somewhere near the to= p. I am getting it as a Christmas gift and know I will love it.

It's absolutely cosmic.

skip heller
http://www.skipheller.com



--MS_Mac_OE_3091829364_3133568_MIME_Part-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: top 10 Date: 22 Dec 2001 11:13:40 +0100 From Skip's top10: > 10. Carla Bley -- 4X4 (ECM) > Still my favorite bandleader, still making fantastic records. What's that recording like? I'm a Bley fan, but did not menage to buy the album yet - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= Subject: Re: top 10 Date: 22 Dec 2001 11:25:27 +0100 Hi, > From Skip's top10: > > 10. Carla Bley -- 4X4 (ECM) > > Still my favorite bandleader, still making fantastic records. > > What's that recording like? I'm a Bley fan, but did not menage to buy the > album yet I bought it this summer and forgot to include it. It's a great record, IMHO. Larry Golding's organ plays a major role in the album (which reminds me of "Dinner Music" a bit). I don't know what to say about it other than it has Carla Bley's usual wit, quirky unexpected changes, and of course her skills for mid and large ensembles arrangements (in this case an octet- four reeds) which make it an excellent listening. And above all, it is fun! Buy it!! Best, Efrén del Valle n.p: Chicago Underground Quartet _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: Another best of list Date: 22 Dec 2001 09:07:28 -0400 3. New Order - Get Ready (Reprise) ----------------- How's this album? I've read mixed things about it. Thanks Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. Mulholland Drive OST - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Fwd: What's up in Vz? Date: 22 Dec 2001 14:09:29 +0000 From a friend of mine...: >Any info about Venezuela greatly appreciated...On or off >topic...Shops, >gigs, scenes, places...Experiences travelling there >with a laptop (being a >bloke from northern Europe)...I'll be there for >field >recording...mainly... > >Thank You _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: David Gould: Adonai in Dub Date: 22 Dec 2001 09:35:40 -0400 Any comments on this release? I'm a fan of Jamie Saft's Sovlanut, so I think I might like it. Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. JAMIE SAFT - sovlanut - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Subject: RE: Another best of list Date: 22 Dec 2001 12:37:52 -0500 At 09:07 AM 12/22/01 -0400, you wrote: >3. New Order - Get Ready (Reprise) > >----------------- > >How's this album? I've read mixed things about it. Thanks I liek it a lot. It's nothing revolutionalry for the band but sounds like they never took a break. A vintage sounding New Order record. It has a little more guitars than Republic or Technique which i view as a good thing. A must if you are a New Order fan, but not essential for others. I grew up on their music so my opinion might be a bit biased. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeroen de Boer Subject: Lombardo tours with Slayer Date: 22 Dec 2001 21:06:29 +0100 VH1-says: Original Slayer Drummer Dave Lombardo Back For Tour "Slayer's original lineup is back from the dead ... for a few weeks, anyway." ... read further on: http://www.vh1.com/thewire/content/news/1451599.jhtml I'm curious if he still plays the same, after the Zorn and Fantomas-projects! Jeroen Jeroen de Boer content director Cyberslag Content Providing Damsterdiep 15 9711SG Groningen The Netherlands t +31(0)503115496 m +31 (0)624814506 f +31(0)503119447 jeroen@cyberslag.nl www.cyberslag.nl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Odp: top 10 Date: 22 Dec 2001 12:23:41 -0800 > From Skip's top10: >> 10. Carla Bley -- 4X4 (ECM) >> Still my favorite bandleader, still making fantastic records. > > What's that recording like? I'm a Bley fan, but did not menage to buy the > album yet > It's pretty much in line with her big band writing, except, of course, this is an octet. Rereadings of a couple classic Carla titles. Larry Goldings really works well in the context. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Lombardo tours with Slayer Date: 22 Dec 2001 12:25:44 -0800 > VH1-says: > > Original Slayer Drummer Dave Lombardo Back For Tour > > "Slayer's original lineup is back from the dead ... for a few weeks, > anyway." > > ... read further on: > > http://www.vh1.com/thewire/content/news/1451599.jhtml > > I'm curious if he still plays the same, after the Zorn and > Fantomas-projects! > > Jeroen Gee, I was kind of hoping for Guy Lombardo. He's having career troubles. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeroen de Boer Subject: Toplist 2001 Date: 22 Dec 2001 21:50:38 +0100 In no particular order: . Tool _ Lateralus (Volcano Entertainment) . Kid 606 _ "down with the scene" (Ipecac) . Fennesz _ Endless Summer (Mego) . Gy=F6rgy Ligeti _ The Ligeti Project 1 (Teldec) . Dave Douglas _ Witness (BMG) . Toshimaru Nakamura _ No Input Mixing Board 2 (A Bruit Secret) . John Zorn _ Filmworks X (Tzadik) . Masada _ Live At Tonic (Tzadik) . Fantomas _ Director's Cut (Ipecac) . Death _ Live In L.A. (Nuclear Blast) . Otomo Yoshihide _ Anode (Tzadik) . Regurgitate _ Carnivorous Erection (Relapse) . John Butcher, Xavier Charles & Axel D=F6rner _ The Contest of Pleasures (Potlatch) . Mastodon _ Lifesblood (Relapse) Jeroen Jeroen de Boer content director Cyberslag Content Providing Damsterdiep 15 9711SG Groningen The Netherlands t +31(0)503115496 m +31 (0)624814506 f +31(0)503119447 jeroen@cyberslag.nl www.cyberslag.nl - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: Re: Guitar Player Date: 22 Dec 2001 21:54:48 >>I also read in a great, very in-depth interview with >>Sharrock in Guitar Player magazine (!) >No need for exclamation or surprise on my part- I've thought that, up > >until a few years ago, Guitar Player was a great magazine that really > >seemed to make it a point to cover avant-garde and experimental guitar >music. Their 30th anniversary issue contained 30 short articles on > >ground-breaking guitarists, and Keith Rowe and Derek Bailey were >among >many other avant-gardists. Now the magazine is more typical (due to a few >obviously influential staff leaving), but is still more >diverse than many >others- although I don't subscribe anymore. Actually that is a good point. I guess I was mainly surprised at exactly how in-depth that article was. Actually the Sharrock article, as well as the 30 Most Radical Guitarists issue you mentioned, had a big impact on my tastes as a late teenager (eventually leading to Zorn, actually, I think). But you're right, they have gotten more standard, from what I can tell by looking through the magazine racks ... WY _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: Best of 2001 Date: 22 Dec 2001 17:21:00 -0500 Long winded, as usual... the best of the 450 some-odd recordings that joined my collection this year. Oddly, little Bailey, no King Crimson save BPM&M and Giles, Giles & Fripp, and no Cecil Taylor. And if only a few of the recent Erstwhiles appear here, it's because I'm still hard at work on the others... ;-) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NEW RECORDINGS/REISSUES John Adams: El Nino (Nonesuch) Derek Bailey & Eddie Prevost: Ore (Arrival) Cecilia Bartoli: Dreams & Fables - Gluck Italian Arias (Decca) Tim Berne: The Shell Game (Thirsty Ear) BPM&M: XtraKcts & ArtifaKcts (Papa Bear) John Butcher: Fixations (14) (Emanem) Cannibal Ox: The Cold Vein (Def Jux) Baikida Carroll: Marionettes on a High Wire (OmniTone) Alex Cline: The Constant Flame (Cryptogramophone) Nels Cline: Destroy All Nels Cline (Atavistic) Graham Connah: Because of Wayne / The Only Song We Know (Evander) Marilyn Crispell: Amaryllis (ECM) Cyrille/Dresser/Ehrlich: C/D/E (Jazz Magnet) Djam Karet: New Dark Age (Cuneiform) Dave Douglas: Witness (RCA Victor) Marty Ehrlich: Song (Enja) Emperor: Prometheus: The Discipline of Fire and Demise (Candlelight) Morton Feldman: Piano and String Quartet (hatNOWart) Morton Feldman: String Quartet (II) (hatNOWart) Gerald Finzi: Cello Concerto (Naxos) Graham Fitkin: Granite; Ironic (GFR) Giles, Giles & Fripp: Metaphormosis (Tenth Planet) God Forbid: Determination (Century Media) Osvaldo Golijov: La Pasion Segun San Marcos (Hanssler) Dennis Gonzalez: Yells at Eels (daagnim) Barry Guy: Inscape-Tableaux (Intakt) Rich Halley: Coyotes in the City (Louie) Karl Amadeus Hartmann; Bela Bartok: String Quartets (ECM) Hans Werner Henze: Three Symphonic Etudes (Wergo) Isis: SGNL>05 (Neurot) Jaguares: Cuando la Sangre Galopa (RCA Latin) Leos Janacek: A Recollection (ECM) Kataklysm: Epic - The Poetry of War (Nuclear Blast) Greg Kelley & Jason Lescalleet: Forlorn Green (Erstwhile) Phil Kline: Unsilent Night (Cantaloupe) Steuart Liebig: Pomegranite (Cryptogramophone) Gyorgy Ligeti: The Ligeti Project I (Teldec) Joe McPhee: Underground Railroad; Trinity (Atavistic); on tour... toronto/rochester (Cadnce) Olivier Messiaen: Turangalila-Symphony (Naxos) Matt Moran's Sideshow: Songs of Charles Ives (CRI Blueshift) Napalm Death: Enemy of the Music Business (Spitfire) Nelly: Country Grammar (Fo'Reel) Opeth: Blackwater Park (Koch) John Oswald: plunderphonics 69/96 (Fony) Propagandhi: Today's Empires, Tomorrow's Ashes (Fat Wreck Chords) Radiohead: Amnesiac (Capitol) Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade (Telarc) Esa-Pekka Salonen: LA Variations (Sony Classical) Arnold Schoenberg: Piano Concerto - Mitsuko Uchida, Cleveland Orch/Boulez (Philips) Matt Shipp: Matthew Shipp's New Orbit (Thirsty Ear) Sigh: Imaginary Sonicscape (Century Media) Stilluppsteypa & TV Pow: We Are Everyone in the Room (Erstwhile) Ralph Vaughan Williams: String Quartets (Naxos) Wu-Tang Clan: Iron Flag (Loud) Various: Folks, He Sure Do Pull Some Bow! (Old Hat) Various: Afro-Rock, Volume One (Kona) Various: Kurt Masur at the New York Philharmonic (New York Philharmonic Editions) Original Soundtrack: Hedwig and the Angry Inch (Hybrid) BELATED DISCOVERIES Black Sabbath: albums 1-6 (Warner Bros./Castle) Cave In: all (Hydra Head) Coalesce: 0:12 Revolution in Just Listening (Relapse) Dafeldecker/Kurzmann/Fennesz/O'Rourke/Drumm/Siewert: ST (Charizma) Emperor: Anthems to the Welkin at Night (Century Black) Fennesz/O'Rourke/Rehberg: The Magic Sound of Fenno'berg (Mego) The Haunted: The Haunted Made Me Do It (Earache) I.S.O.: I.S.O. (Alcohol) Led Zeppelin: Physical Grafiti (Swan Song) James MacMillan: Epiclesis; Ninian (Bis) Melvins: various (Atlantic & Ipecac) Morbid Angel: Entangled in Chaos, Formulas Fatal to the Flesh, Gateways to Annihilation (Earache) Giacinto Scelsi: Aion; Pfhat; Konx-Om-Pax (Accord) Valentin Silvestrov: Symphony No. 5; Postludium (Sony Classical) Slayer: Reign in Blood (American) Antonio Vivaldi: The Four Seasons - Guiliano Carmignola, Venice Baroque Orchestra (Sony Classical) Iannis Xenakis: Chamber Music 1955-1990 (Montaigne/Naive) LIVE Tony Malaby & Tom Rainey, Internet Café, Feb. Ellery Eskelin with Andrea Parkins and Jim Black, Knitting Factory, Mar. Brooklyn Philharmonic/Robert Spano, BAM, Apr. The Haunted, Lamb of God, Diecast and Noctuary, CBGB, Apr. Napalm Death, Soilent Green, Isis, CBGB, Jun. Keith Jarrett, Gary Peacock & Jack DeJohnette, Carnegie Hall, Jun. Cheikha Rimitti and Sussan Deyhim, Central Park SummerStage, Jun. Roxy Music with Rufus Wainwright, The Theater at Madison Square Garden, Jul. Berg: Wozzeck, Metropolitan Opera, Oct. Mozart: Idomeneo, Metropolitan Opera, Oct. Evelyn Glennie & National Symphony Orchestra, Carnegie Hall, Oct. Marilyn Nonken (complete Schoenberg piano works), Miller Theatre, Nov. Jaguares, Hammerstein Ballroom, Nov. Strauss: Arabella, Metropolitan Opera, Nov. Masada and the Absolute Ensemble, Miller Theatre, Nov. Pierre-Laurent Aimard, Carnegie Hall, Dec. Morbid Angel, The World, Dec. BOOKS Ken Saro-Wiwa: Sozaboy Edward Galeano: Memory of Fire Trilogy Pramoedya Ananta Toer: Buru Quartet Arundati Roy: The God of Small Things Philip K. Dick: The Man in the High Castle Haruki Murakami: South of the Border, West of the Sun; Sputnik Sweetheart; Norwegian Wood Dave Eggers: A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius Richard Wright: Native Son Philip Roth: American Pastoral; I Married a Communist Herman Melville: Moby-Dick F. Scott Fitzgerald: The Great Gatsby C.S. Lewis: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Lombardo tours with Slayer Date: 22 Dec 2001 17:51:33 -0500 (EST) Yeah, I know. His profile has been so low recently that many folks think he's dead. K --- Skip Heller wrote: > VH1-says: Original Slayer Drummer Dave Lombardo Back > Gee, I was kind of hoping for Guy Lombardo. He's > having career troubles. ===== Ken Waxman mingusaum@yahoo.ca www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Prince Date: 22 Dec 2001 21:31:29 -0500 I know prince has been discussed on the list before so...What's the word on his new album, The Rainbow Children? What's so "controversial" about it? Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Brant/Varese/Villa-Lobos/Piazzolla Date: 22 Dec 2001 22:56:11 -0500 I was doubly lucky one weekend... 'Ionisation' one night, 'Deserts' the next. The first was spectacular - everything I'd ever hoped from a live performance of one of my all-time favorite works. The second, sadly, was lackluster, marred by imprecise ensemble and a silly film by Bill Viola. Oh, well, at least it included the electronic interludes. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of thomas chatterton >From: "serge dautricourt" >It was a real treat to see "Deserts" live. . . truly a haunting >masterpiece. Wow, what a rare treat, to hear Deserts (or any Varese for that matter!) live, one of the great works of the 21st century, along with Ameriques... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Prince Date: 22 Dec 2001 22:58:21 -0500 Strikes me as a half-baked neo-soul outing. Oh, yeah, and it's a concept album about the wee purple one's unique version of spirituality... I buy almost everything he releases, and even I couldn't warm up to this one. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of &c. I know prince has been discussed on the list before so...What's the word on his new album, The Rainbow Children? What's so "controversial" about it? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Iron Path Date: 22 Dec 2001 23:08:02 -0500 I'll agree that 'Live in Japan' is probably the least of the live Last Exit discs, but I still prefer it to 'Iron Path.' My dislike for the latter simply stems from the things I described before - the soft focus recording, the overproduction, the notion that it sounds to me like a Laswell disc with ferocious sidemen somehow tamed. If they were described as "four big egos on a stage," that's probably more or less the truth on evidence (though I've never heard that accusation leveled at Sonny himself). But that's pretty much exactly why I loved them - you had a good idea of what you were in for, given the languages that the four worked in, and they often delivered. But this is just my point of view, taking into account my personal expectations of what Last Exit was - in my opinion, this album did not deliver what I wanted. Fair enough - they weren't playing for my taste but for their own. So you can really write this one off to personal preference... I think Tony gave a particularly lucid counterexample that pointed out the record's strengths, for anyone who cares to listen past my own biases. Perhaps, given that, my previous statement that the disc should be avoided by all but Laswellites may have been overstated by anyone else's measure. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of CuneiWay@aol.com Steve Smith wrote re: Last Exit: >The >studio disc 'Iron Path' is to be avoided by all but the utmost Laswell >fan >(and those who own all the other discs), but aside from that, it's hard >to >go wrong. Steve, I am usually in agreement with you, but "Iron Path" is the only one I really like (I will admit to not hearing all of them in some time), & I don't see how you can recommend the extremely spotty Live In Japan (??) (The one with "Big Boss Man" on it) over it. I am curious to know what about Iron Path you so dislike? It's not the big "four big egos on a stage" (as someone I met who liked them & saw them play once referred to them to me) like all of their other albums - all of which are live recordings, right? - but I think it's a better album for that. and I'm not even a Laswell apologist! :-) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: my top 10 list / DAVID LYNCH Date: 22 Dec 2001 23:12:46 -0500 For the less enlightened... okay, for ME... does "Region 0" mean that the disc will work on American machines? I can't keep the rules straight, personally, and was boycotting the season one box because of the omission of the pilot episode. If I can get the pilot - the REAL pilot, not the stupid version with an ending - then I'd be quick to grab it and the box set as well. Oh, and if the answer to the first question is "yes," then the second question is obviously "where do I find this?" Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Neil H. Enet The TWIN PEAKS pilot was released in Hong Kong (Region 0), ELEPHANT MAN was released just a few days ago, and yesterday the complete first season of TWIN PEAKS (minus the pilot) was released. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Sharrock/Iron Path Date: 22 Dec 2001 23:20:20 -0500 Bill, I know this wasn't directed to me personally, but I'd like to clarify my own position. I don't think 'Iron Path' has Laswell's signature glossy production (and "glossy" isn't a word I would use for the typical Laswell production job in recent years, anyway). Rather, 'Iron Path' makes me feel like I have cotton in my ears. That's a big part of the problem, actually. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Bill Ashline I liked "Iron Path" but I think it was badly recorded. Those who think that it has Laswell's signature glossy production must have cotton in their ears. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Prince Date: 22 Dec 2001 20:25:12 -0800 > Strikes me as a half-baked neo-soul outing. Oh, yeah, and it's a concept > album about the wee purple one's unique version of spirituality... I buy > almost everything he releases, and even I couldn't warm up to this one. > > Steve Smith > ssmith36@sprynet.com > Is there a Jehovah's Witness message interspersed thru it? skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Prince Date: 22 Dec 2001 23:23:19 -0500 If there was, I wouldn't have recognized it as such... SS -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2001 11:25 PM > Strikes me as a half-baked neo-soul outing. Oh, yeah, and it's a concept > album about the wee purple one's unique version of spirituality... I buy > almost everything he releases, and even I couldn't warm up to this one. > > Steve Smith > ssmith36@sprynet.com > Is there a Jehovah's Witness message interspersed thru it? skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: Best of 2001 Date: 23 Dec 2001 04:27:06 +0000 >From: "Steve Smith" >Oddly, little Bailey, no King Crimson... What??? No Crimso! I may be somewhat partial on this one, as this concert was recorded days after I first saw them, (and because of that experience I've always favoured the Islands band), but the last KC Collectors Club release Live In Detroit Dec.13 1971 is amazing, especially the Sailor's Tale Cirkus Groon and In The Court of The B.B. King. Mel Collins shines throughout. Ooops looks like the start of another list, so here's (some of!) the rest: Miles Davis: Complete In A Silent Way Sessions Dave Douglas: Witness Orlando Cachaito Lopez: Cachaito Ennio Morricone: Il Gatto A Nove Code Cyclobe: The Visitors John Coltrane: Olatunji Concert Sussan Deyhim: Turbulent Miles Davis: It's About That Time (Fillmore West 3/7/70) Igor Stravinsky: The Rite Of Spring (Gergiev/Kirov) James Brown: Live At The Apollo V.2 Deluxe Edition Kayhan Kalhor: Scattering Stars Like Dust OOIOO: Feather Float Fantomas: Directors Cut Kaija Saariaho: Chateau De L'Ame Various: Arabesque Zoudge 2 Ryoji Ikeda & Carsten Nikolai: Cyclo In Memoriam: W.G. Sebald, writer (RIngs of Saturn, Vertigo , Austerlitz) d. Dec. 14 _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: King Crimson / Sonny Sharrock Date: 22 Dec 2001 23:40:54 -0500 You are correct on all counts, and this one did belong on my list. I hadn't entered this into my database (yes, I'm THAT big a dork), so when I ran a query, naturally it didn't come up. It's a great, great set and perhaps the best sound I've heard to date on an 'Islands' era date. Linking this ever so slightly to another thread, I've always loved my boot of a late 1971 show at the Academy of Music in New York - the 'Islands' band burned with such intensity that at times it reminds me of nothing more strongly than Last Exit. It was with some satisfaction, then, that I recently read in the new KC bio 'In the Court of King Crimson' that Fripp actually mentions Sonny Sharrock as a strong influence on his playing in this particular period. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of thomas chatterton >Oddly, little Bailey, no King Crimson... What??? No Crimso! I may be somewhat partial on this one, as this concert was recorded days after I first saw them, (and because of that experience I've always favoured the Islands band), but the last KC Collectors Club release Live In Detroit Dec.13 1971 is amazing, especially the Sailor's Tale Cirkus Groon and In The Court of The B.B. King. Mel Collins shines throughout. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Re: Prince Date: 23 Dec 2001 00:09:06 -0500 What's this about Jehovah's Witnesses? Has our purple sex fiend turned good? Zach ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2001 11:25 PM Is there a Jehovah's Witness message interspersed thru it? skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ripleyjames@attbi.com Subject: RE: my top 10 list / DAVID LYNCH Date: 22 Dec 2001 23:16:03 -0600 At 11:12 PM 12/22/2001 -0500, you wrote: >For the less enlightened... okay, for ME... does "Region 0" mean that the >disc will work on American machines? Region 0 means it will work on all machines, all countries. Fyi, United States is region 1. >Oh, and if the answer to the first question is "yes," then the second >question is obviously "where do I find this?" I found it by searching at Poker Industries: http://www.pokerindustries.com/acatalog/ Now we know what to get Steve for Christmas! James >Steve Smith >ssmith36@sprynet.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com >[mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Neil H. Enet > >The TWIN PEAKS pilot was released in Hong Kong (Region 0), ELEPHANT >MAN was released just a few days ago, and yesterday the complete first >season of TWIN PEAKS (minus the pilot) was released. > > >- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Prince Date: 23 Dec 2001 01:18:22 EST In a message dated 12/22/01 9:53:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, parksplace@hotmail.com writes: << I know prince has been discussed on the list before so...What's the word on his new album, The Rainbow Children? What's so "controversial" about it? >> Unsure about the "controversial" aspects of it, outside of the fact that Prince shunned the major labels and released it on his own NRG label. It's one of the year's best, IMO-a slick mix of freek-funk and jazz-fusion with some of the best guitar playing by the man since, um, _Controversy_ . -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Prince Date: 22 Dec 2001 22:45:09 -0800 > What's this about Jehovah's Witnesses? Has our purple sex fiend turned > good? > > Zach > Depends on what you mean by "good", but, yes, he has declared himself to now be a Jehovah's Witness and has promised no more foul language on his records. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Prince Date: 23 Dec 2001 02:32:19 EST In a message dated 12/23/01 1:22:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: << How's THAT for two sides of the coin? >> Hee...I thought the same thing after I read your comments (and *after* I sent mine to the list.) FWIW, _The Rainbow Children_ picked up some positive comments on the rec.music.progressive NG too-not exactly a group of people I'd figure to embrace much of Prince's oeuvre. -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: Re: Prince Date: 23 Dec 2001 05:08:39 EST In a message dated 12.23.01 01:43:22, velaires@earthlink.net writes: >> What's this about Jehovah's Witnesses? Has our purple sex fiend turned >> good? >> >> Zach >> >Depends on what you mean by "good", but, yes, he has declared himself to >now >be a Jehovah's Witness and has promised no more foul language on his >records. wow. this is really unfortunate. not only is the idea of jehovah's witnessdom terrifying, but even more terrifying is the prospect of prince's albums no longer being suggestive or lewd. in my opinion, possibly his most redeeming album is/was diamonds and pearls - for all its cheesiness, songs like gett off and cream fucking blow me away - just how he makes rawness so funky and work so brilliantly without making you feel, you know, kind of icky when you turn the CD off. it's just raw energy. i think something about prince's unabashed sexuality probably drives (drove? eek) his music more than anything else -- it would be like madonna declaring her reunitance with the catholic church and denying what gave her her roots in pop culture. i find it to be ironic and rather hippocritical - chastise the thing which gave you life, basically... hee... k8. ----- nothing in moderation. (ernie kovacs) where there's a mission, there's a missionary. (jim altieri) k a t e p e t e r s o n composer / performer UFOrbK8@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Best of 2001 Date: 23 Dec 2001 21:33:02 +1100 > Graham Connah: Because of Wayne / The Only Song We Know (Evander) I've got his three releases on Rastascan, is this more of the same? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: avant-elitism (anti-elitism, girls) Date: 23 Dec 2001 12:00:43 +0100 > But I don't expect Pierre Boulez to listen to FREAK OUT :-). Does anyone know any comments by Boulez about the recording of the perfect stranger? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: 4X4 (was: Re: top 10) Date: 23 Dec 2001 12:05:08 +0100 OK, it's on the top of my wish list. (and good luck with your japanese exam) > Carla Bley's usual wit, quirky unexpected changes, and of course her skills > for mid and large ensembles arrangements (in this case an octet- four reeds) > which make it an excellent listening. And above all, it is fun! Buy it!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: Re: avant-elitism (anti-elitism, girls) Date: 23 Dec 2001 12:44:52 +0100 Pierre Boulez once talked very friendly about Zappa's compositions in a Zappa TV documentary in the nineties. Furthermore, he once said something along the lines of: 'he is not an ordinary pop musician 'doing' classical' Zappa has a remarkable ear, and that is rarely seen in the pop world'. Or something like that. I am quite sure I have both comments somewhere on paper (Biography?)and videotape (1992 BBC documentary?), but if you don't mind, I won't bother finding the exact locations for you (on holiday now...) Regards, Remco Takken Does anyone know any comments by Boulez about the recording of the perfect stranger? - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Franz Fuchs" Subject: RE: avant-elitism (anti-elitism, girls) Date: 23 Dec 2001 12:46:28 +0100 > On Behalf Of Marcin Gokieli > > > But I don't expect Pierre Boulez to listen to FREAK OUT :-). > > Does anyone know any comments by Boulez about the recording > of the perfect > stranger? Zappa is mentioned in this interesting "Andante"-interview with Boulez: http://www.andante.com/magazine/article.cfm?id=12725 Regards Franz Fuchs - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: my top 10 list / DAVID LYNCH Date: 23 Dec 2001 10:02:48 -0400 Region 0 will work on US machines. The HONG KONG pilot DVD of Twin peaks is the original pilot, not the stupid european ending version you talked about, this is the real thing. I found it at LASERSEDGE.COM , I think it's the cheapest place to get it. $19.99 if I remember correctly. Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. JAMES - laid - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= Subject: Re: 4X4 (was: Re: top 10) Date: 23 Dec 2001 16:13:22 +0100 Hi, Marcin wrote: > OK, it's on the top of my wish list. (and good luck with your japanese exam) Thanks a lot but I have no Japanese exam!! That was Neil! :-) I have a German exam in five weeks so I take that good will of yours anyway. And good luck to Neil (I think we both need it) Best, Efrén n.p: Myra Melford "Above Blue" (Arabesque) n.r: George Orwell "Animal Farm" _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: ...back to james... Date: 23 Dec 2001 11:56:14 EST >NP. JAMES - laid i wanted to mention this before when the james thread was going around. this album, laid, seriously changed the way i listen to and write music. i'm pretty sure i bought laid the first week it came out simply because i was a jaded type kid and was shooting for obscure records, but it all totally came into place. i don't think there is a single bad song on this album, the production (brian eno!) is SO great - i love how low and quiet so many of the mixes are, while the rock songs are still rockin', the lyrics are pretty brilliant, and laid the single is probably my favourite "pop" song ever written. it's one of those songs i listen to when i feel like things are in the shitter. in this same vein, i am very fond of (please don't choke) the lightning seeds album sense. i just feel like it is such a well done, beautiful, full album. what can i say - i'm a sucker for britpop... k8. ----- nothing in moderation. (ernie kovacs) where there's a mission, there's a missionary. (jim altieri) k a t e p e t e r s o n composer / performer UFOrbK8@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Re: Prince Date: 23 Dec 2001 12:00:23 -0500 Has he really had his "eyes opened" or was singing about sex all the time not shocking enough? Zach ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 1:45 AM > What's this about Jehovah's Witnesses? Has our purple sex fiend turned > good? > > Zach > Depends on what you mean by "good", but, yes, he has declared himself to now be a Jehovah's Witness and has promised no more foul language on his records. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: ...back to james... Date: 23 Dec 2001 13:17:37 -0400 JAMES laid i don't think there is a single bad song on this album, the production (brian eno!) is SO great You were talking a few days ago about "Just like Fred Astaire", which I have to agree is an excellent beautiful pop song ... but to me, the one that makes the hair on the back of my head stand is OUT TO GET YOU ... and to choose that lovely slow song to OPEN the LAID album is just fascinating. Oh, ... and I still think that Pleased to Meet You is quite great .. although I listened to Millionaires yesterday and it's really really great ... don't know which one is better. And speaking of their albums ... what do you think of WHIPLASH? It's very techno and different ... and I know that it didn't sell very well (plus it didn't have that ENO production) ... but I like it very much. What are your points of view? Neil H. Enet ------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Oger Subject: Re: French Bands(No Zorn) Date: 23 Dec 2001 18:56:13 +0200 > >From: Poisonhead@aol.com > >A quick question to the list... >I am trying to find a mailorder service here in states that carries >the odd child-like (mostly french) bands. I own most of Klimperei's >discs, Pascal Camelade, & Pierre Bastien. But really looking for >dragibus. Wayside carries the "In Poly Sons" label. Any other >suggestions. Thanks in advance! > >Andrew > Dragibus contacts : http://www.netlaputa.ne.jp/~lili/dragibus.html e-mail: Jacques Oger - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" Subject: DVD Query Date: 23 Dec 2001 11:13:57 -0800 So, what Music DVD should I use to initiate that spiffy new DVD player I'm getting for Christmas? High art recommendations only, please. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: DVD Query Date: 23 Dec 2001 14:14:37 -0600 On Sun, Dec 23, 2001 at 11:13:57AM -0800, Rev. Floyd Errors wrote: > So, what Music DVD should I use to initiate that spiffy new DVD > player I'm getting for Christmas? > > High art recommendations only, please. So far, I'm very happy with the DVD of Erik Friedlander's "Skin", the documentary "Merce Cunningham: A Lifetime of Dance", the "Immersion" DVD (featuring music by Pauline Oliveros, Lukas Ligeti, Meredith Monk, Paul Dolden and others), the DVDs on Mode of music by Roger Reynolds and Morton Subotnick, and the New Jakarta Ensemble's "Congeniality". I'm also eager to get the DVDs of Glass's "Satyagraha" and Robert Wilson's "Alceste", if I ever have money again. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?Windows-1252?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= Subject: some Cds for sale Date: 23 Dec 2001 21:30:08 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C18BF8.FED05160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Sorry about the "business-oriented" contents of this e-mail. Here are some CDs I'd love to get rid off: MATT DARRIAU'S PARADOX TRIO "Flying at a Slant" (KFR) CYRO BAPTISTA/KEVIN BREIT "Supergenerous" (Blue Note) WHAT WE LIVE "Trumpets" (Black Saint) BOBBY PREVITE "Too Close to the Pole" (Enja) KAZUTOKI UMEZU "Ecclecticism: Live at the Knitting Factory" (KFR) BILL FRISELL "Music From the Films of Buster Keaton: Go West" (Elektra) THE BILL FRISELL BAND "Lookout for Hope" (ECM) BILL FRISELL "Quartet" (Elektra) BILL FRISELL + FRED HERSCH "Songs we Know" (Elektra) BILL FRISELL + ELVIS COSTELLO "Deep Dead Blue" (Elektra) MYTH-SCIENCE "Love in Outer Space" (KFR) (Sun Ra tribute w/ Anthony = Coleman, Briggan Krauss, Ed Ware,...) PHILLIP JOHNSTON'S BIG TROUBLE "Flood at the Ant Farm" (Black Saint) CALVIN WESTON/JAMADELEEN TACUMA/JAMES BLOOD ULMER "Dance Romance" = (In+Out) RALPH CARNEY "Ralph Sounds" (Birdman Records) THE JAZZ PASSENGERS "Plain Old Joe" (KFR) THE GOLDEN PALOMINOS "Drunk with Passion" (Nation) KRONOS QUARTET W/ ASTOR PIAZZOLLA "Five Tango Sensations" (Elektra) HALF JAPANESE "Music to Strip By" (LSR) BRUCE ACKLEY TRIO w/ JOEY BARON, GREG COHEN "The Hearing" (Avant) GARY THOMAS "Pariah's Pariah" (Winter & Winter) If anybody's interested, contact me off-list. Please note I'm located in = Spain (that might make you think twice. You know, shipping costs!) Best, Efr=E9n del Valle ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C18BF8.FED05160 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
 
Sorry about the "business-oriented" contents of this = e-mail.
 
Here are some CDs I'd love to get rid = off:
 
MATT DARRIAU'S PARADOX TRIO "Flying at a Slant"=20 (KFR)
CYRO BAPTISTA/KEVIN BREIT "Supergenerous" (Blue=20 Note)
WHAT WE LIVE "Trumpets" (Black Saint)
BOBBY PREVITE "Too Close to the Pole" = (Enja)
KAZUTOKI UMEZU "Ecclecticism: Live at the Knitting = Factory"=20 (KFR)
BILL FRISELL "Music From the Films of Buster Keaton: = Go West"=20 (Elektra)
THE BILL FRISELL BAND "Lookout for Hope" = (ECM)
BILL FRISELL "Quartet" (Elektra)
BILL FRISELL + FRED HERSCH "Songs we Know"=20 (Elektra)
BILL FRISELL + ELVIS COSTELLO "Deep Dead Blue"=20 (Elektra)
MYTH-SCIENCE "Love in Outer Space" (KFR) (Sun Ra = tribute w/=20 Anthony Coleman, Briggan Krauss, Ed Ware,...)
PHILLIP JOHNSTON'S BIG TROUBLE "Flood at the Ant = Farm" (Black=20 Saint)
CALVIN WESTON/JAMADELEEN TACUMA/JAMES BLOOD ULMER = "Dance=20 Romance" (In+Out)
RALPH CARNEY "Ralph Sounds" (Birdman = Records)
THE JAZZ PASSENGERS "Plain Old Joe" = (KFR)
THE GOLDEN PALOMINOS "Drunk with Passion"=20 (Nation)
KRONOS QUARTET W/ ASTOR PIAZZOLLA "Five Tango = Sensations"=20 (Elektra)
HALF JAPANESE "Music to Strip By" (LSR)
BRUCE ACKLEY TRIO w/ JOEY BARON, GREG COHEN "The = Hearing"=20 (Avant)
GARY THOMAS "Pariah's Pariah" (Winter &=20 Winter)
 
If anybody's interested, contact me off-list. = Please note=20 I'm located in Spain (that might make you think twice. You know, = shipping=20 costs!)
 
Best,
 
Efr=E9n del Valle
 
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C18BF8.FED05160-- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: nonzorn) improv columns now online- koenig Date: 23 Dec 2001 20:55:21 EST hi everyone- happy healthy fun year to all. my latest columns: composed improvised & between are online without any ads: http://www.lafolia.com/koenigrisk.htm "Incredible Risks: Strange and Improvised Musics" Abdullah Ibrahim; The Who Live At Leeds: Deluxe Edition;=20 Sandoz Lab Technicians; Sukora; Seth Nihil; Rajesh Mehta;=20 Dom Minasi; Gutbucket;Terry Waldo=E2=80=99s Gutbucket Syncopators;=20 Cecil Payne; Vinny Golia; Fred Anderson; Peter Brandlmayer; Knurl; Buddy DeFranco; Marlon Simon and the Nagual Spirits;=20 Peter Warren and Matt Samolis; Brad Shepik; Rick Margitza; =E2=80=9CTimeless=E2=80=9D Tribute to Hank Williams; Henry Threadgill=E2=80= =99s Zooid;=20 Grupo Yanqui; Marc Copland; Sun Ra Arkestra; rev.99;=20 I Compani; Canterbury tales by Chaucer; The Dum Dum Project;=20 The Erk=C3=B6se EnsembleGypsy Music of Turkey http://www.lafolia.com/koenigcomposed.htm "Composed and deComposed: Music of Our Centuries" Tristan Murail; Tod Machover; Morton Subotnick;=20 Continuum=E2=80=99s Conga-Line in Hell; Conlon Nancarrow; Rorem; Ravel,=20 Bridge; Morton Feldman; Shostakovich; Szigeti and Bart=C3=B3k; Faur=C3=A9;=20 Jean Fran=C3=A7aix; Henri Dutilleux; Stravinksy; Werner Egk; Ligeti, Stockhausen & Gunter Hampel on 9/11; Marc-Anthony Turnage;=20 Peter Epstein; Peter Erskine; Berlin/Abbado; Pollini;Britten=E2=80=99s War=20 Requiem; Evelyn Glennie; Var=C3=A8se; George Tsontakis; CHEN Yi;=20 Maurizio Pollini; American Composers Orchestra=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CTechnology= =20 and the Orchestra,=E2=80=9D=20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sh" Subject: Attn: Case Sinclair Date: 23 Dec 2001 22:30:54 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A6_01C18C01.7C3CCD60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Case, would you get in touch with me? We set up a trade a few weeks = back. Said you were out of town and would mail out my shows went you = got back home, as well as contact me. Haven't heard from you. Drop me = a line, eh? Thanks. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_00A6_01C18C01.7C3CCD60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Case, would you get in touch with = me?  We=20 set up a trade a few weeks back.  Said you were out of town and = would mail=20 out my shows went you got back home, as well as contact me.  = Haven't heard=20 from you.  Drop me a line, eh?  Thanks. =20
------=_NextPart_000_00A6_01C18C01.7C3CCD60-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "nors5379" Subject: jonathan whitehead Date: 24 Dec 2001 05:43:19 GMT i was just curious if anybody is familiar with this musician? he's credited for the music on this late night british comedy 'black books.' just from the theme the playing is very similar to that of marc ribot and other guitarists who've played with tom waits. i did a search for him online but the only one that may be him was a jonathan whitehead who plays drums with a robert whitehead. so i am not sure if he is a drummer and composer or this is another man all together. any help would be gladly appreciated! -darryl. Darryl Norsen db.etree.org/shortround nors5379@fredonia.edu volerniemickey@hotmail.com "JAZZ is my religion and it alone do I dig. The jazz clubs are my houses of worship and sometimes the concert halls, but some holy places are too commercial (like churches) so I dont dig the sermons there. I buy jazz sides to dig in solitude." - Feinstein - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: 4X4 (was: Re: top 10) Date: 24 Dec 2001 10:09:14 +0100 Sorry, A funny thing is that one can make such mistakes much more often on such lists then in normal life. It's prettty funny, actually. Good luck to all the list with all their exams, wifes, huspbands, toys, children, and other disasters. Marcin ----- Original Message ----- > Thanks a lot but I have no Japanese exam!! That was Neil! :-) I have a > German exam in five weeks so I take that good will of yours anyway. And good > luck to Neil (I think we both need it) > > Best, > > Efrén > n.p: Myra Melford "Above Blue" (Arabesque) > n.r: George Orwell "Animal Farm" > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: DVD Query Date: 24 Dec 2001 10:18:14 +0100 there's a pretty nice King Crimson Double Trio DVD called 'Deja VROOOM'. If you like them, it may wrm up your player pretty well. > So, what Music DVD should I use to initiate that spiffy new DVD > player I'm getting for Christmas? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= Subject: JESUS DRESS UP Date: 24 Dec 2001 13:41:27 +0000 (GMT) Have fun! http://www.jesusdressup.com/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert Subject: Fwd: JESUS DRESS UP Date: 24 Dec 2001 18:56:52 +0100 Dressing up your rejected savior on weekdays and SM in the weekends, right? Michael Gillham wrote: > Have fun! > http://www.jesusdressup.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: New Music for percussion in RealAudio Date: 25 Dec 2001 01:00:00 -0600 Hi y'all, This week on Mappings , you'll hear new music for percussion by Chris Brown, John Cage & Lou Harrison, Wendy Mae Chambers, Alvin Curran, Beat Furrer, Peter Garland, Ikue Mori, Brigitte Robindore, Toru Takemitsu, and Thomas Witzmann. The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0600 GMT) and will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program, featuring contemporary music for koto by John Cage, Elizabeth Falconer, Shoko Higake, Toshio Hosokawa, Brett Larner, Miya Masaoka, Ryuko Mizutani, and Tadao Sawai is still available in the Mappings archive , where you can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998. Hope you tune in to the program. Bests, Herb - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Oum Kalthoum tribute Date: 23 Dec 2001 20:19:09 -0500 Greetings, For the year end, we have staff best-of-year lists (including the editor's extensive listing of every good record that could be heard/found). Also, we have tributes to two late, great guitarists: George Harrison and Michael Karoli (Can). Otherwise, in the latest edition of Perfect Sound Forever , you'll find (among other things): OUM KALTHOUM The Golden Voice of Egypt- one of the most legendary voices of Arabic music (surely on a par with Nusrat Fateh Ali Kahn), revered by everyone from Bob Dylan to Diamanda Galas. Rudy Meixell examines her history and her essential recordings. We're always looking for good material so let us know if you have any writing or ideas for upcoming issues. Best wishes and happy holidays, Jason Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Best of 2001 Date: 26 Dec 2001 14:46:19 -0500 The first disc is similar to the Rastascan releases by his Sour Note Six combo, only with more vocals than usual. The latter two discs are by a more recent band, Jettison Slinky, which has more of an electric sound and a funky vibe to it. It even reminds me a bit of Canterbury, and, like almost all of the jazz that did anything at all for me this year, it's on a tiny micro-label. But fear not - I believe it's three CDs for little more than the price of one, with a lovely hand-designed box. (Graham, jump in here if I'm getting any of this wrong...) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com (back for an afternoon, then heading to Florida for a week...) -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 5:33 AM > Graham Connah: Because of Wayne / The Only Song We Know (Evander) I've got his three releases on Rastascan, is this more of the same? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Best of 2001 Date: 26 Dec 2001 13:29:34 -0800 If my opinion means anything, it's fairly indispensible stuff. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com > The first disc is similar to the Rastascan releases by his Sour Note Six > combo, only with more vocals than usual. The latter two discs are by a more > recent band, Jettison Slinky, which has more of an electric sound and a > funky vibe to it. It even reminds me a bit of Canterbury, and, like almost > all of the jazz that did anything at all for me this year, it's on a tiny > micro-label. But fear not - I believe it's three CDs for little more than > the price of one, with a lovely hand-designed box. (Graham, jump in here if > I'm getting any of this wrong...) > > Steve Smith > ssmith36@sprynet.com > (back for an afternoon, then heading to Florida for a week...) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Julian [mailto:jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au] > Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 5:33 AM > To: Zorn List; ssmith36@sprynet.com > Subject: Re: Best of 2001 > > >> Graham Connah: Because of Wayne / The Only Song We Know (Evander) > > I've got his three releases on Rastascan, is this more of the same? > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@browbeat.com (m. rizzi) Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #646 Date: 26 Dec 2001 14:25:49 -0800 (PST) Now that I have some time to actually READ the zorn-list, rather than just administer it...it turns out I was at the center of a controversy. ;) Darn...I love a good tussle. Much appreciation for all the nice comments about how I admin the list. As for the quality of the list, I can't take credit for that...that's totally related to the quality of the list membership. Thanks to everyone who informed Jeton that I was on vacation and the list software probably blocked his message because it was too big. Which is exactly what happened. Moral: Read the zorn-list info packet, which exlains what happens if your eloquent prose is less than succinct. Ironically, I was at the Zorn/Bailey/Baron/ Workman show, though I wasn't lucky enough to have my coat thrown on the floor by Zorn. Long live paranoia, provisionally. mike rizzi zorn-list-admin-and-Big-WannaBe >>>>So, to everyone, beware what u write here, Big WannaBe is >watching.<<< > >There will be some technical explanation, not a censorious one. >Rizzi does a great job, and his devotion to quality is what keeps >this list at a high level compared to most. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Verstraeten Stefan" Subject: laswell remix question Date: 27 Dec 2001 06:53:25 +0100 > Hello all, > > I just bought the new Buddha Bar cd and noticed a track by Mari Boine called > Maid Aiggit Muimma Eallin.... that was remixed by Bill Laswell in 2001. > Uncle Bill remixed the song in an ambient dub style (what did you expect > else????) > > Is this an exclusive remix, or is this remix part of a wider collection? > > Can anybody help me out on this one? > > Stefan Verstraeten > > Stefan.Verstraeten@belgacom.net > > n.p. Buddha Bar - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JKlein2373@aol.com Subject: James Date: 27 Dec 2001 17:29:07 EST I must admit I'm surprised to see so much talk/write of James on the John Zorn list. Personally, I think the album Laid is one of the most beautiful discs I've ever heard. I love the fact that at the last minute they replaced some earnest cover with the picture of the band wearing dresses and eating bananas. I wonder if that was Eno's idea? I think Whiplash is pretty good, too, and though it lacks Eno's production, he does sing and play on several tracks. Millionaires is, IMHO, a lot better than Pleased to Meet Me, though the two are very different. The former is very produced and glossy (in a cool way), whereas the latter was apparently recorded in a pretty much live setting, with Eno sitting in. I caught a clip of him jamming with James online. I wish more bands would do what James and U2 did with Eno - record a Wah Wah or Zooropa between major releases. Has anybody out there heard the remastered/expanded editions of Laid/Whiplash? I'd like to know how they sound before I invest in new editions of two relatively recent albums.. Also, as for Prince: the new album sounds cool, I think, with some neat songs and arrangements, funk jams paired with the usual Prince ballad cheese (but what great cheese!). As for the lyrics: who cares! I've never paid much attention to Prince's lyrics. It's all about the groove. Hope you all have a great New Year's. Josh - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pascal Cortes Subject: Winter & Winter on the web Date: 28 Dec 2001 16:03:19 +0100 Hello z-listers, I know that the question "Is there a website for the label W&W ?" has been addressed many times here.... so here is something new that may interest of few of you... hum... at least those who read french, maybe... "Musiques de Nuit", an association who's been organizing concerts and other musical events for many years in Bordeaux (France) has set up a collaboration with Stefan Winter and his label: "MUSIQUES DE NUIT invite WINTER & WINTER".=20 From the end of 2001 to the end of 2002, a large series of concerts (and expo, workshops, etc) of W&W artists will be held in Bordeaux (including Uri Caine, Noel Akchot=E9, Fred Frith, Pachora, Ernst Reikseger, Amsterdam String Trio, Guy Klucevsek, Stian Carstensen, Paul Motian....). For this occasion, the "Musiques de nuit" website (in french) has now a whole section dedicated to Stefan Winter and his label, including an edito by Stefan Winter (in french, english and german), an interview previously published in Jazz Magazine, the W&W catalog with reproduction of the CDs' artwork, short bios of artists, pictures, selective discographies, links , etc.... The website is really nice, in the W&W tradition....... but may be kind of a labyrinth.... and everything is in french, except for the small presentation of his label by Stefan Winter. Here is the address: http://musiques.de.nuit.free.fr/ To browse the W&W catalogue, go to "Sommaire" =3D> "Musiques de nuit invite Winter & Winter" =3D> "Le catalogue" Hope you'll enjoy the visit. Pascal. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeton Ademaj" Subject: SMILE ! Date: 28 Dec 2001 11:40:53 -0500 Hi everybody, just a reminder: SMILE Saturday, December 29th 9pm $8.00 KnitActive Soundstage Knitting Factory 74 Leonard Street (5 blox south of canal, bet Broadway n Church) 212 219 3006 http://www.knittingfactory.com Consisting of legendary jazzman Daniel Carter on winds, a sweet young wackjob named Dustin Garlitz on tenor sax and a nice young super-monster named Mike Pride on drums, reeds, voice, toys and whatever he feels like that day. Along with me on qifteli, skronk guitar, toy samplers etc., we are SMILE. Our band name is both a nice verb and a cybernetic acronym invented by Timothy Leary (see his book INFO-PSYCHOLOGY). We play free, and we've managed to squeeze in some of my singing and poetry without locking into standard sound-forms. I intend SMILE to be a comfort space for whatever the group feels in a given moment, and I bring my love of Hendrix, Sabbath, Coltrane, Dance Music, Folk 'n' Canonical (Albanian-/Appalachian-/"'"'World-'"'"/ Future-,etc), Hip-Hop and my imagination. We'll be joined by intrepid bassist-extraordinaire Jean-Guerly, who'll be floating us all in his oceanic electro-mixin' board fat bottomed sound. Thanks for reading, Hope to say hi! to some of you soon, and all of you eventually... Peace Jeton 'Tony' Ademaj To be removed from this list, please reply with 'remove' in the subject line, and my apologies for any inconvenience. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M.B." Subject: Avant-Classical Naxos? Date: 28 Dec 2001 17:53:49 -0800 (PST) Could anyone recommend any above average avant-classical Naxos releases besides the John Cage "Prepared Piano" volumes? Thank you in advance. ===== Conversation Piece Talk about the death of an imaginary person. If somebody is interested, bring out a black framed photograph of the deceased and show. If friends invite you, excuse yourself by explaining about the death of the person. 1963 Summer--Yoko Ono __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: lsteinmann Subject: The Gift Date: 29 Dec 2001 18:30:38 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_6BiLp6IlC+/mSYVCTeSAxA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable hi folks. I just subscribed to the list. any hot discussion on at the time? me I just bought "The Gift" CD which is the third one in the "Music = Romance"-Serie. I=B4m always stunned hearing Ribots talented = guitarplaying. Seems he can do really ANYTHING. The sensitive quiet side of Zorn came to me at first in the = chamber-pieces of Bar Kokhba. Though The Gift is not compareable to it, = it presents another side of Zorns abilities and expression ranges = concerning mood and athmosphere. What do you think of The Gift? Are there any dislikers? Greets from Bielefeld, Germany Lars --Boundary_(ID_6BiLp6IlC+/mSYVCTeSAxA) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
hi folks.
 
I just subscribed to the = list.
any hot discussion on at the = time?
 
me I just bought "The Gift" CD = which is the=20 third one in the "Music Romance"-Serie. I=B4m always stunned hearing = Ribots=20 talented guitarplaying. Seems he can do really ANYTHING.
The sensitive quiet side of Zorn came = to me at=20 first  in the chamber-pieces of Bar Kokhba. Though The Gift is not=20 compareable to it, it presents another side of Zorns abilities and = expression=20 ranges concerning mood and athmosphere.
What do you think of The Gift? Are = there any=20 dislikers?
 
Greets from Bielefeld, = Germany
 
Lars
 
 
--Boundary_(ID_6BiLp6IlC+/mSYVCTeSAxA)-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Fwd: The Gift Date: 29 Dec 2001 21:28:16 +0100 (CET) Wie geht's Lars, > > I just subscribed to the list. > any hot discussion on at the time? No hot discussions right now. Everyone seems to be enjoying Christmas time, I think. Be very welcome to the list. > me I just bought "The Gift" CD which is the third > one in the "Music Romance"-Serie. I´m always stunned > hearing Ribots talented guitarplaying. Seems he can > do really ANYTHING. No suppositions, I really think he CAN DO ANYTHING!!. > What do you think of The Gift? Are there any > dislikers? I don't like it, maybe four themes of the whole album, and they are those in which Ribot plays a major role. I found it really well performed, but the contents are not that interesting, IMHO. I prefer "Filmworks X" which explores similar paths in a more inspired vein. Maybe I expected too much of that release and the results didn't meet those espectations in the end. I don't know. Ein Gruss aus Spanien, Efrén del Valle n.p: Satoko Fujii Trio "Looking out of the Window" (Nippon Crown) _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: 2001 performances Date: 29 Dec 2001 23:01:35 +0100

A great performance for sure, but I saw them the year before in Moers and the first time is mostly the best...

Andreas

may i ask what you found lacking in The Ex's performance at Saalfelden?  :)
seriously, i would top-ten that one, too.
my hair stood on end for the whole duration : phenomenal : the big-band
version of "State of Shock" alone was worth the entire price of the
festival ticket, imo.



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- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ryan Novak Subject: Re: Guitar Player Date: 29 Dec 2001 17:38:46 -0800 (PST) >From: "William York" >Subject: Re: Guitar Player> > >No need for exclamation or surprise on my part- I've thought that, up > >until a few years ago, Guitar Player was a great >magazine > >Actually that is a good point. I guess I was mainly >surprised at exactly how >in-depth that article was. Actually the Sharrock >article, as well as the 30 >Most Radical Guitarists issue you mentioned, had a >big >impact on my tastes >as a late teenager (eventually leading to Zorn, >actually, I think). You're right about the length of the article- they weren't often very in-depth like that, but at least they covered it. Another influential one for me was the avant-metal issue that had Blind Idiot God, Caspar Brotzmann, and others among more commercial metal bands. But sometimes the experimenters are hard to ignore- I just saw Fred Frith's Clearing mentioned in the "jazz" part of one of the more rock-pandering magazines. ---Ryan N. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kevin Molony Subject: The Gift Date: 30 Dec 2001 12:23:38 +0000 This from the Barbican London site. One question - is this really the world premiere???????? Festive greetings. Marc Ribot Jamie Saft Dave Douglas Joey Baron Cyro Baptiste World premiere of a new John Zorn project, The Gift, a beautiful and lyrica= l exploration of surf, exotica, easy listening and world beat. The Gift is an honest and heartfelt offering to music lovers the world over: an invitation to forget about the worries and cares of the world, to sit back and relax. Featuring Marc Ribot, Cyro Baptista, Jamie Saft, Joey Baron, Dave Douglas and many other special guests. A side of John Zorn you=B9ve rarely heard, the music of The Gift is both relaxing and stimulating. Venue Title: Barbican Hall Monday 25 March at 7.30pm=20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: most satisfying releases of 2001 Date: 30 Dec 2001 13:03:12 +0000 I'll start off by qualifying my list. Under no circumstances was I able to purchase or obtain as many CDs as some on the list were able to do (Steve Smith--450 CDs--wow, Steve, that's about 4 new CDs every three days). I'm also making this list without having heard a number of new releases in the electro-acoustic improv category, including the last six or so Erstwhile releases, Durian (great name for a label, BTW--the fruit that initially repels the olfactory senses before it finally satisfies the taste buds), Charizma, Trente Oiseau, Ritornell, etc. I should also note that I'm still waiting to receive my copies of Yoshihide's Anode, the Massacre live disc, a couple of Raz Mesinai discs, and a couple of other important releases. This year I bought almost no new jazz improv and absolutely no new releases by John Zorn. Back in June, an order from Forced Exposure that included the MIMEO release on Grob, Brotzmann's Fuck de Boere, and a couple of Yoshihide and Sachiko M releases disappeared without a trace, much to my chagrin--about 120 dollars worth of music that I'll probably never have the pleasure of listening to. Oh well, so here's my offering for what it's worth: Seminal ear-shattering experiences of 2001: 1) Xenakis, La Legende d'Eer, Montaigne--this was just reissued on this label. When I received it, I put on repeat for five hours straight. Absolutely stunning release. My favorite of all Xenakis' work. Perhaps others on the list might want to relay their experiences of first hearing certain of Xenakis' recordings. This was a life-changing encounter for me, even though I already owned and heard a lot of his other work. (A friend is a huge fan). 2) Sachiko M & Toshimaru Nakamaura, Do, Erstwhile--I remember the arrival of this CD last spring and how profoundly I was affected after listening to it for the first time. It's a CD that confirms my view that the present and immediate future of the avant-garde lies with this type of music--unexpected or even accursed musical instruments--the no-input mixing board and the sampler denuded of all but the tuning devices. The rest of my favorites, in no particular order: James Coleman, Zuihitsu, Sedimental Phil Durrant, Thomas Lehn, Radu Malfatti, Dach, Erstwhile Paik Nam June, Works 1958-1979, Sub Rosa Sachiko M, Detect, Antifrost Filament, Live 29092000, Amoebic John Wall, Constructions V-VII, Utterpsalm Bill Cole and the Untempered Ensemble, Duets & Solos Volume 2, Boxholder Techno Animal, The Brotherhood of the Bomb, Matador Gigi, Gigi, Palm Pictures Bill Laswell & Jah Wobble, Radioaxiom, Axiom/Palm Pictures Jah Wobble & Deep Space, Largely Live in Hartlepool and Manchester,30 Hertz Alva Noto, Tranform, Mille Plateaux Taylor Deupree, Occur, 12K Pan Sonic, Aaltopiiri, Mute TV Pow, Mort Aux Vaches: Being Nice is Funny, Staalplaat Kim Duk-soo, Spirit of Nature, Nanjang Music Lee Perry, Skanking with the Upsetter, Jamaica Recordings King Tubby, Lost Treasures, Jamaica Recordings Reissues: Jean Dubuffet, Experiences Musicales, Mandala Masayuki Takayanagi & Kaoru Abe, Gradually Projection, DIW Masayuki Takayanagi & Kaoru Abe, Mass Projection, DIW John Coltrane, The Olatunji Concert, Impulse Miles Davis, Complete Silent Way Sessions, Columbia Miles Davis, Live at the Fillmore East: It's About that Time, Columbia This Heat, Made Available, These Art Ensemble of Chicago, Jackson & Message, Charly (reissued again) Archie Shepp, Blase & Live at the Pan African Festival, Charly Archie Shepp, Live at the Donauescheningen Festival, MPS Don Cherry, Mu, Charly Don Cherry, Eternal Rhythm, MPS Sun Ra, The Solar Myth Approach, Charly Sun Ra, It is Forbidden, Total Energy Belated but Significant Encounters: Masahiko Okura, Gunter Muller, Taku Sugimoto, Otomo Yoshihide, Metal Tastes Like Orange, Amoebic Microstoria, Reprovisers, Thrill Jockey Ryoji Ikeda, +/-, Touch Xenakis, Persepolis, Fractal AMM, The Inexhaustible Document, Matchless Robert Ashley, Automatic Writing, Lovely Sachiko M, Sine Wave Solo, Amoebic Evan Parker, 50th Birthday Concert, Leo Pierre Henry, Mix 01.0 and 02.0, Phillips Brotzmann, Kondo, Parker, Drake, Die Like a Dog, FMP Fushitsusha, PSFD 3-4, 15-16, PSF Toshimaru Nakamura & Sachiko M, Un, Meme ISO Live, Zero Gravity Thanks to the list for suggesting many of these and best (aural) wishes to all for the coming year. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Plunderphonics 69/96 Date: 30 Dec 2001 13:22:13 +0000 I didn't include this in my list. While it the concept was interesting, I agree with William York that the execution was less so. Other opinions? _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Theo Klaase Subject: the Gift/Ribot Date: 30 Dec 2001 05:59:44 -0800 (PST) I like "the Gift" and Ribot's playing is always of interest. Although, personally, I think the best playing by Ribot on a Zorn project is Filmworks 8. He is just amazing on that album. Followed by the Circle Maker album. -Theo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= Subject: Re: the Gift/Ribot Date: 30 Dec 2001 14:19:45 +0100 > Although, personally, I think the best playing by > Ribot on a Zorn project is Filmworks 8. He is just > amazing on that album. You should definitely listen to "Filmworks III" (if you haven't). There's some of Ribot's most inventive, amazing performances there, specially his duo w/ Zorn (Hollywood Hotel) and the music for the Weiden & Kennedy Publicity company. Just an opinion. Best, Efrén del Valle n.p: Peter Brötzmann's Die Like a Dog "Little dogs have fast hearts nº 1" _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brian Olewnick" Subject: Re: Plunderphonics 69/96 Date: 30 Dec 2001 09:39:07 -0500 > I didn't include this in my list. While it the concept was interesting, I > agree with William York that the execution was less so. Other opinions? I think this suffered a bit from simply being a somewhat dated concept by now, despite how well Oswald handled the medium. A lot of it is fun (I especially enjoy the "You're So Vain" melange) but, once expressed, I'm not so sure that plundephonics has "legs" after the initial phase of fascination and excitement passes. 'Plexure' still retains some of that for me as it was essentially the first time I'd heard Oswald (as a plunderphonicist as opposed to an alto player) and I'm sure my first wowed impression still lingers in memory. '69/96' now strikes me as more _interesting_ to listen to clinically than viscerally enjoyable. Brian Olewnick NP: Tom Phillips/AMM - Irma - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Beardsley" Subject: Re: my top 10 list / DAVID LYNCH Date: 30 Dec 2001 11:34:23 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- > In a message dated 12/19/01 4:23:29 PM, nilugo@usa.net writes: > > << In january you will be able to buy > the DVDs for ERASERHEAD >> > > any more details on this? it doesn't seem possible to access any info on > Lynch's web site without becoming a paying member. will you have to order it > through him, or will all the normal outlets have it? The on-line Lynch store is supposed to open in Jan. I picked up the Twin Peaks 1st season yesterday but I don't know when I'll be able to check it out. Is it just me or was the Derek Bailey and his amazing denture pick show @ DMG really, really good? * David Beardsley * http://biink.com * http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: most satisfying releases of 2001 Date: 30 Dec 2001 08:47:30 -0800 (PST) On Sun, 30 Dec 2001, Bill Ashline wrote: > Art Ensemble of Chicago, Jackson & Message, Charly (reissued again) i'm very excited about all the byg-actuel re-issues. the alan silva stuff is excellent... i'd also add in a big recommendation for the aacm re-issue of 'les stances a sophie' (lp+cd). an incredible release and at times i am tempted to say better than 'a jackson in your house/message to our folks'. if you enjoy longer tracks that really transport, 'les chances...' delivers. hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: Leo on sale Date: 30 Dec 2001 12:28:11 -0500 I don't know if anybody else noticed but Berkshire (broinc.com) has a bunch of Leo Records--actually mostly Leo Lab--on sale for $2.99 each. There are a few big names but one lesser known that I'd recommend is the Remote Viewers, a kind of art-song jazz-rock-whatever thing I usually hate but that's pretty fun here. Lang Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Documentary Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ahorton Subject: plunderphonics/etc. Date: 30 Dec 2001 12:54:49 -0500 I just finished reading the interview with Oswald in the first chapter of "Arcana", so I started downloading and checking out parts of the plunderphonics projects. Perhaps I'm spoiled; having been raised on sample-based albums (Dj Shadow's "Endtroducing", Future sound of london records, any number of other sample-based records) that work together as pop-cultural pastiche as well as interesting aural experiences as well as cohesive albums, something like this just isn't impressive, at all. Again; anyone can sample a bunch of riffs, hooks, excerpts, sounds, etc; it takes skill to put them all together into something coherent (instead of Oswald's "just throwing them all together" approach). andrew - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: FW: BR=?ISO-8859-1?B?1g==?=TZMANN 10_Victoriaville 1999 Date: 30 Dec 2001 13:15:19 -0500 Looking for help figuring this session. If anyone was there-- Here's the entry in the Parker Sessionography, http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/PARKER.disc.html#99.05.23 and Belanger here is responding to my notes (quoted here and extended in th= e session entry) from Heinrich Smejkal. Any help appreciated! RL ---------- """=20 I've seen this audience tape before on lists, but I have actually never heard it. What I have is a recording of what Radio-Canada broadcasted. The order of the broadcast was: Old Bottles, No Wine Immediate Music Stone/Water Makappoor I had identifed the tiles myslef, but I had found a confirmation on Radio- Canada's website (playlists...) Also, when Radio-Canada announced they would broadcast the show, I had asked if they would throw the whole thing. The answer I had received was basically "yes, but we not have enough time for the short encore". I also know they had played a little with the order of the songs. I know for sure that "Stone/Water" was the second set. A friend of mine was at the show and he confirmed this (I could not find a drive to Victo that year...). For the rest, well, I never learned if the small encore was broadcast or not. I am getting more and more sure it was not "Immediate Music" as I previously thought. Was "Older Brothers" played? I honestly have no idea... What Radio-Canada told me leads to think it was not, but it's not a strong evidence. ***Maybe someone on the Zorn-list would know.*** I know more than one member attended the show. >> So, in my opinion this was the concert-program: >> First set:=20 >> 1) Immediate music (Lonberg-Holm) 8:00 >> 2) Other brothers (Vandermark) exact duration unknown but more than >> 22:00 >> 3) Old bottles, no wine (Gustafsson) 9:00 >> 4) Makapoor (Zerang) 17:00 As I said, I really can't say much about the order of this part and if "Older Brother" was played. >> Introduction Br=F6tzmann (at the end of the first set) 1:10 >> Second set:=20 >> 1) Stone/water (Br=F6tzmann) 38:34 This is correct. There was a short encore according to Radio-Canada. Again, I could probably ask my friend who was at the show if it was really the case. Maybe Radio-Canada made a mistake... """ Thanks again, RL ----------=20 *** Many THINGS 4 SALE *** [Updated: 01.12.01] http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html ----------=20 [ All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ] Sessionographies :=20 CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies :=20 COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN. Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN; HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag-- ETC., - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: my top 10 list / DAVID LYNCH Date: 30 Dec 2001 14:31:45 -0400 << In january you will be able to buy the DVDs for ERASERHEAD >> >any more details on this? it doesn't seem possible >to access any info on >Lynch's web site without becoming a paying member. >will you have to order it >through him, or will all the normal outlets have >it? -------------------------- I understand that it will only sell through his website but you don't have to be a member to access the store. If you go in right now it says "workin on it", it's supposed to open sometime on january. Lynch has donde a nice new transfer, has completely "cleaned" the film so it will be look the best anybody has seen it, and I think it has a new 5.1 sound. Also, if you're a big Lynch fan, I definitely recommend becoming a member of the site, it has everything, from traileras of films, music (and music videos), paintings, cartoons, series, two chat rooms(frequently visited by Lynch himself), and a lot of what he calls "experiments" which collects some real crazy stuff, some funny, some beautiful, etc. All this for $10 a month. it's really worth it ... I'm just a university student and now I'm just eliminating one of my monthly trips to the movies for this beauty. Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. BARRY ADAMSON - the murky world of ... (best of) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: alan Subject: bailey @ dmg Date: 30 Dec 2001 15:23:19 -0500 indeed derek sounded really superb yesterday. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M Pathos" Subject: Re: plunderphonics/etc. Date: 30 Dec 2001 14:32:32 -0700 Oswald's ideas were visionary, but conceptualism and formalism in music (and art in general) are rarely persuasive on their own; fatally, his pastiches lack emotional resonance. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: most satisfying releases of 2001 Date: 30 Dec 2001 22:05:47 +0000 >From: SUGAR in their vitamins? >i'm very excited about all the byg-actuel re-issues. >the alan silva stuff is excellent... i'd also >add in a big recommendation for the >aacm re-issue of 'les stances a sophie' (lp+cd). Yeah, I had Les Stances a Sophie on my reissues list for 2000. I had to list the other BYG releases for this year because I couldn't get them in 2000. I also bought the Alan Silva release during the summer but sadly could not include it as I've been unable to play it on my turntable. Does anyone know where one can buy a belt for an old Marantz? Thanks. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: plunderphonics/etc. Date: 30 Dec 2001 14:11:14 -0800 > Oswald's ideas were visionary, but conceptualism and formalism in music (and > art in general) are rarely persuasive on their own; fatally, his pastiches > lack emotional resonance. > > Is something called "Plunderphonics" designed for "emotional resonance" purposes? I think Oswald is -- in the best and most creative sense -- a prankster, pure and simple. I would sooner compare him to Penn & Teller than to John Zorn. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath Subject: Re: plunderphonics/etc. Date: 30 Dec 2001 16:10:08 -0600 >Perhaps I'm spoiled; having been raised on sample-based albums (Dj Shadow's >"Endtroducing", Future sound of london records, any number of other >sample-based records) that work together as pop-cultural pastiche as well as >interesting aural experiences as well as cohesive albums, something like this >just isn't impressive, at all. You are comparing two very different things here. Comparing FSOL's sampling to Oswald's sampling is like comparing Angus Young to Robert Fripp. They are not even attempting to operate on the same level. >Again; anyone can sample a bunch of riffs, hooks, excerpts, sounds, etc; it >takes skill to put them all together into something coherent (instead of >Oswald's "just throwing them all together" approach). I cannot see how you can consider Oswald's approach to be "just throwing them all together". Have you ever listened to Plexure? Even if you haven't heard that piece, his other plunderphonics works can hardly be considered "thrown together". To me his works are very coherent. If you look beyond the hard-wired standards that most music snobs call "coherent", you'll see a lot more going on than initially meets the ear. Granted - a lot of what he has done cannot be considered "easy listening" in the same vein as FSOL. But that is beside the point - he isn't attempting to capture the mainstream ambient/dance/electronic/whatever market. To dismiss what he has done because it doesn't resonate with you at this time doesn't mean that what he has done is any less important than what a pop group like FSOL has done. Just my opinion - take it for what it's worth. Considering most of my music purchases of late have been things my friends consider unlistenable (Aube and other Japanese noise artists in particular), I don't really expect too many people to agree with me. But I also get irritated when people shoot something down without really giving it a fair shake. Craig M. Rath H: fripp@mn.mediaone.net W: rathc@questarweb.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: most satisfying releases of 2001 Date: 30 Dec 2001 17:18:27 EST In a message dated 12/30/01 8:04:39 AM, bashline@hotmail.com writes: << Seminal ear-shattering experiences of 2001: 1) Xenakis, La Legende d'Eer, Montaigne 2) Sachiko M & Toshimaru Nakamaura, Do, Erstwhile >> wow, you would have loved the six hour DJ set at Experimental Intermedia last December I put together (with help from Mike Goodstein of WFMU). I included all of Legende d'Eer and the 37 minute track from do as two of the three core pieces which I built the program around. the third was Robert Ashley's Automatic Writing, in a different vein from those two, but just as mindblowing. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: the Gift/Ribot Date: 30 Dec 2001 23:23:35 +0100 Zorn/ribot duo is great; i just lov the feeeling of 'quick work' you get while listening to those tracks. The W&K tracks are also great - MR plays a lesser role in those, though. The best album to feature Ribot is IMHO Filmworks II. > You should definitely listen to "Filmworks III" (if you haven't). There's > some of Ribot's most inventive, amazing performances there, specially his > duo w/ Zorn (Hollywood Hotel) and the music for the Weiden & Kennedy > Publicity company. Just an opinion. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: plunderphonics/etc. Date: 30 Dec 2001 17:27:27 EST In a message dated 12/30/01 5:10:31 PM, fripp@mn.mediaone.net writes: << I cannot see how you can consider Oswald's approach to be "just throwing them all together". Have you ever listened to Plexure? Even if you haven't heard that piece, his other plunderphonics works can hardly be considered "thrown together". To me his works are very coherent. >> I agree, you guys are being awfully tough on Oswald. sure, some of his work sounds dated, but he was definitely groundbreaking in this genre. much of the original plunderphonic record holds up pretty well, specifically the first eight or nine tracks. and whoever cited DJ Shadow, Endtroducing also sounds pretty dated now, and that's only five years old, not thirteen like Plunderphonic. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: Plunderphonics 101 Date: 30 Dec 2001 23:08:56 +0000 > >From: "M Pathos" > > >Oswald's ideas were visionary, fatally, his pastiches > >lack emotional resonance. But they're sure a lot of fun...if you don't try to read too much into 'em! np: Kyoaku No Intention _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M Pathos" Subject: Re: plunderphonics/etc. Date: 30 Dec 2001 20:50:21 -0700 Is music designed for pranks? > Is something called "Plunderphonics" designed for "emotional resonance" purposes? I think Oswald is -- in the best and most creative sense -- a prankster, pure and simple. I would sooner compare him to Penn & Teller than to John Zorn. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: plunderphonics/etc. Date: 30 Dec 2001 22:49:47 -0600 On Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 08:50:21PM -0700, M Pathos wrote: > Is music designed for pranks? Consider Haydn's "Surprise Symphony" or the opening of King Crimson's "21st Century Schizoid Man". -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M Pathos" Subject: Re: plunderphonics/etc. Date: 30 Dec 2001 21:47:02 -0700 I suppose a one-line rejoinder begs to engender such responses in return. While it's possible to portray irony and humor in music, I would contend that this is making poor use of the richness of possibilities open to organizers of sound. As an admittedly imperfect analogy, I'd draw your attention to the durability of (verbal/written) jokes in the canonical works of world literature. We need to be explained the funny bits in Chaucer or Shakespeare (my Western frame of reference; equally true, I expect, of Oriental works as Occidental ones) and they remain unfunny after being explained, whereas the same authors' more serious comments on the human condition seem to translate transparently to the contemporary. > Consider Haydn's "Surprise Symphony" or the opening of King Crimson's "21st Century Schizoid Man". -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: plunderphonics/etc. Date: 30 Dec 2001 23:49:35 -0600 On Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 09:47:02PM -0700, M Pathos wrote: > I suppose a one-line rejoinder begs to engender such responses in return. > While it's possible to portray irony and humor in music, I would contend > that this is making poor use of the richness of possibilities open to > organizers of sound. Limiting music to just jokes might be a "poor use..." But limiting music to exclude them would be, too. > As an admittedly imperfect analogy, I'd draw your attention to the > durability of (verbal/written) jokes in the canonical works of world > literature. We need to be explained the funny bits in Chaucer or Shakespeare > (my Western frame of reference; equally true, I expect, of Oriental works as > Occidental ones) and they remain unfunny after being explained, whereas the > same authors' more serious comments on the human condition seem to translate > transparently to the contemporary. Dunno if I'd want to choose between a good laugh now and a solemn posterity. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: plunderphonics/etc. Date: 30 Dec 2001 21:59:01 -0800 > Is music designed for pranks? >> Why not? Any language is available for any use you like. If you can conceive it as a prank, you can execute it as a prank. Penn & Teller have made a whole magic science based on this, and -- prior to them -- I think people would have dismissed that very idea as shallow and destined for a short shelf-life. But they -- like Oswald -- are the greatest of pranksters, posessed of flawless technique. I like pranks, especially victimless ones. My first exposure to PLUNDERPHONICS made me feel like I had just been in on the best April Fool's Day anyone had ever pulled on my stereo. Short answer -- you can design music for any experience you like, be it love, protest, humor, whatever. skip h NP: guy klucevsek, citrus my love - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: dated musik. Date: 31 Dec 2001 03:46:59 EST it's interesting, the thread about plunderphonic sounding dated. while i really like what oswald i've heard (i have only heard one album, all the way through, once, and no, i don't remember which one), i think the true test of whether something can artistically hold up is its sounding dated or not. i think that this is a very common symptom of electronic and computer music - as the medium advances, previous endeavours in it sound, well, pretty bad. occasional things override this - the early reich tape pieces, stockhausen's gesang der junglinge, and music for airports to name a few - but a whole hell of a lot of tape/electronic/computer music sounds like total ass now - i.e. mort subotnick's the wild bull. pop/rock is so much the same way, too, maybe moreso. everyone knows that peter frampton sounds like total shit now. but it was groundbreaking then and it's interesting, if kitschy, now. so... i forgot what my point was... k8. ----- nothing in moderation. (ernie kovacs) where there's a mission, there's a missionary. (jim altieri) k a t e p e t e r s o n composer / performer UFOrbK8@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hatta Subject: 2001 "Best Of" Date: 31 Dec 2001 01:54:54 -0800 --============_-1202329994==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Well it's NYE: finally time for a top 10...plus Makers and 'High Fidelity' put me in the mood for lists ;) My Favorite Music of the year 2001: No Neck Blues Band 'Sticks and Stones May Break My Bones But Names Can Never Hurt Me' (Revenant) Keith Rowe/Toshimaru Nakamura 'Weather Sky' (Erstwhile Records) Secret Chiefs 3 'Book M' (Web of Mimicry) Aiko Shimada 'Blue Marble' (Tzadik) Wayne Horvitz & Zony Mash 'Sweeter than the Day' (Songlines) Radiohead 'Amnesiac' (Elektra) Bjork 'Vespertine' (Elektra) Wayne Horvitz & the 4+1 Ensemble: 'Through a Window' (Avant) Freight Elevator Quartet 'Fix it in Post' (C74) Kim Cascone 'Dust Theories' (C74) Sachiko M/Toshimaru Nakamura 'Do' (Erstwhile Records) Personal Music Discovery of the Year: AMM (thanks to this list) The Best Live Shows I saw: John Zorn with the Seattle Chamber Players ( Benaroya Hall, 02.25.01) Bang on a Can Allstars (Moore Theatre, 03.11.01 ) Eyvind Kang's classical composition 'Petrified Wood' (Consolidated Works, 03.14.01 ) The Residents (EMP, 03.30.01) AMM (04.11.01, Old Church Portland OR) Sex Mob (09.01.01, Bumbershoot) Critters Buggin w/ Bachir and Mustapha Attar (09.28.01, Sit n' Spin) Critters Buggin w/ Bachir and Mustapha Attar (09.29.01, Viking Union, Bellingham WA) Dave Douglas's Witness (10.07.01, Sit n' Spin) Horvitz 4+1 / Acoustic Zony Mash (11.09.01, Tractor Tavern) Books published this year: David Mitchell 'number9dream' Haruki Murakami 'Sputnik Sweetheart' Scott Carrier 'Running After Antelope" McSweeney's Bill Waterson, 'Calvin & Hobbes: Sunday Pages 1985-1995' Movies: 1) Mulholland Drive (David Lynch) 2) Man Who Wasn't There (Coen Bros.) 3) Royal Tenenbaums (Wes Anderson) 4) Battle Royal 5) AI (Steven Spielberg) 6) Vanilla Sky (Cameron Crowe) 7) Monsters Inc. (Pixar) 8) Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back (Kevin Smith) 9) Memento (Christopher Nolan ) DVD's Twin Peaks (Lynch/Frost) Dogma (Smith) Untitled (Crowe) Citizen Kane (Wells) Akira Cowboy Bebop Ultimate Collection 2001: A Space Odyssey (Kubrick) Memento (Christopher Nolan ) R.I.P.: Ken Kesey ("Never give a inch!") George Harrison happy new year, Robert -- Hobbes: "Is it a right to remain ignorant?" Calvin: "I don't know, but I refuse to find out!" -Bill Waterson, 'Calvin & Hobbes' --============_-1202329994==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" 2001 "Best Of"
Well it's NYE: finally time for a top 10...plus Makers and 'High Fidelity' put me in the mood for lists ;)

My Favorite Music of the year 2001:
No Neck Blues Band 'Sticks and Stones May Break My Bones But Names Can Never Hurt Me' (Revenant)
Keith Rowe/Toshimaru Nakamura 'Weather Sky'  (Erstwhile Records)
Secret Chiefs 3 'Book M' (Web of Mimicry)
Aiko Shimada 'Blue Marble' (Tzadik)
Wayne Horvitz & Zony Mash 'Sweeter than the Day' (Songlines)
Radiohead 'Amnesiac'  (Elektra)
Bjork 'Vespertine'  (Elektra)
Wayne Horvitz & the 4+1 Ensemble: 'Through a Window' (Avant)
Freight Elevator Quartet 'Fix it in Post' (C74)
Kim Cascone 'Dust Theories' (C74)
Sachiko M/Toshimaru Nakamura  'Do' (Erstwhile Records)

Personal Music Discovery of the Year:
AMM (thanks to this list)


The Best Live Shows I saw:
John Zorn with the Seattle Chamber Players ( Benaroya Hall, 02.25.01)
Bang on a Can Allstars (Moore Theatre, 03.11.01 )
Eyvind Kang's classical composition 'Petrified Wood' (Consolidated Works, 03.14.01 )
The Residents  (EMP, 03.30.01)
AMM (04.11.01, Old Church Portland OR)
Sex Mob  (09.01.01, Bumbershoot)
Critters Buggin w/ Bachir and Mustapha Attar (09.28.01, Sit n' Spin)
Critters Buggin w/ Bachir and Mustapha Attar (09.29.01, Viking Union, Bellingham WA)
Dave Douglas's Witness  (10.07.01, Sit n' Spin)
Horvitz 4+1 / Acoustic Zony Mash (11.09.01, Tractor Tavern)
Books published this year:
David Mitchell 'number9dream'
Haruki Murakami 'Sputnik Sweetheart'
Scott Carrier 'Running After Antelope"
McSweeney's
Bill Waterson, 'Calvin & Hobbes: Sunday Pages 1985-1995'


Movies:
1) Mulholland Drive (David Lynch)
2) Man Who Wasn't There (Coen Bros.)
3) Royal Tenenbaums (Wes Anderson)
4) Battle Royal
5) AI (Steven Spielberg)
6) Vanilla Sky (Cameron Crowe)
7) Monsters Inc. (Pixar)
8) Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back (Kevin Smith)
9) Memento (Christopher Nolan )


DVD's
Twin Peaks (Lynch/Frost)
Dogma (Smith)
Untitled (Crowe)
Citizen Kane (Wells)
Akira
Cowboy Bebop Ultimate Collection
2001: A Space Odyssey (Kubrick)
Memento (Christopher Nolan )

R.I.P.:
Ken Kesey ("Never give a inch!")
George Harrison

happy new year,
Robert
--
Hobbes: "Is it a right to remain ignorant?"
Calvin: "I don't know, but I refuse to find out!"
 -Bill Waterson, 'Calvin & Hobbes'
--============_-1202329994==_ma============-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Agnes Martin Date: 31 Dec 2001 11:58:50 +0100 Hi y'all. There was an excellent documentary on Agnes Martin (to whom Zorn's "Redbird" is dedicated) on Swiss TV yesterday. My question now: have any of you ever read any of her writings? Can you recommend any of them? Thanks for your help! patRice np: Elvis Presley, Golden Hits nr: Yoko ?, Hotel Iris - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Re: most satisfying releases of 2001 Date: 31 Dec 2001 11:24:10 +0000 >From: JonAbbey2@aol.com >Subject: Re: most satisfying releases of 2001 > >In a message dated 12/30/01 8:04:39 AM, bashline@hotmail.com writes: > ><< Seminal ear-shattering experiences of 2001: > >1) Xenakis, La Legende d'Eer, Montaigne > >2) Sachiko M & Toshimaru Nakamaura, Do, Erstwhile >> > >wow, you would have loved the six hour DJ set at Experimental Intermedia >last >December I put together (with help from Mike Goodstein of WFMU). I included >all of Legende d'Eer and the 37 minute track from do as two of the three >core >pieces which I built the program around. the third was Robert Ashley's >Automatic Writing, in a different vein from those two, but just as >mindblowing. I know I would have. It's unfortunate I'm so poorly placed for such events. But now I can begin to construct an imaginary aural equivalent, and yes that combination of recordings would certainly have blown me away. I had a difficult time finally getting a copy of Automatic Writing, but I've been listening to it frequently throughout the year. A very powerful piece indeed. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Re: plunderphonics/etc. Date: 31 Dec 2001 11:31:23 +0000 >From: Craig Rath >Subject: Re: plunderphonics/etc. > >Just my opinion - take it for what it's worth. Considering most of my >music purchases of late have been things my friends consider unlistenable >(Aube and other Japanese noise artists in particular), I don't really >expect too many people to agree with me. But I also get irritated when >people shoot something down without really giving it a fair shake. I agree with you. People shouldn't dismiss the work too easily. I can tell that something is going on with Oswald's work. And it is interesting and fun. I was listening to it again earlier this morning many hours before I got to reading the Zorn digest and I did enjoy a lot of the recording. It's a bit difficult right now for me to fathom the impact this recording had in 1989. I can imagine it only slightly. My issue is that I didn't find it quite as fascinating as I expected, given the build-up of the release, and so I didn't include it in my favorites of the year. Others had, so I was curious about their reactions. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chuckp8@juno.com Subject: Re: plunderphonics/etc. Date: 31 Dec 2001 06:31:27 -0800 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_5d4a.6438.4c5b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit zlist folk, Not to dismiss anyone's opinion, as everyone is entitled to their own, but to a guy like me, who sits in front of a multitrack mixer every work day and damn near every day off, Oswalds work is mind numbingly incredible. Sure, it may not move along like DJ Shadow record, but Plunderphonics doesn't seem to be a precursor to Endtroducing. They are different in their construction, if not their source material, and the intended results couldn't be further apart. It's difficult for me to even come up with an artist today who is doing the same thing that Oswald was doing 13 years ago. Evolution Control Comittee... some of those rough trade singles combining missy elliot and metallica and the like... but still, those works pale in comparison to what Oswald accomplished years ago, and probably without the help of the techno gadgetry we have today. To me, it's Oswalds MIXING that makes him amazing. Throwing things together isn't hard, really... making them fit together is. Anyway, each artists work is singular to that artist, and none should be held up to any others, but I guess they inevitably do... what a pie-eyed dreamer I can be. Chuck P. On Sun, 30 Dec 2001 17:27:27 EST JonAbbey2@aol.com writes: > > In a message dated 12/30/01 5:10:31 PM, fripp@mn.mediaone.net > writes: > > << I cannot see how you can consider Oswald's approach to be "just > throwing them all together". Have you ever listened to Plexure? Even if > you haven't heard that piece, his other plunderphonics works can hardly > be considered "thrown together". To me his works are very coherent. > >> > > I agree, you guys are being awfully tough on Oswald. sure, > some of his work sounds dated, but he was definitely > groundbreaking in this genre. much of the original plunderphonic > record holds up pretty well, specifically the first eight or > nine tracks. > > and whoever cited DJ Shadow, Endtroducing also sounds pretty dated > now, and that's only five years old, not thirteen like Plunderphonic. > > Jon > www.erstwhilerecords.com > > - > > ----__JNP_000_5d4a.6438.4c5b Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
zlist folk,
 
Not to dismiss anyone's opinion, as everyone is entitled to their own,= but=20 to a guy like me, who sits in front of a multitrack mixer every work = day=20 and damn near every day off, Oswalds work is mind numbingly=20 incredible. 
 
Sure, it may not move along like DJ Shadow record, but Plunderphonics= =20 doesn't seem to be a precursor to Endtroducing.  They=20 are different in their construction, if not their source material, and= the=20 intended results couldn't be further apart.  It's difficult for me to = even=20 come up with an artist today who is doing the same thing that = Oswald=20 was doing 13 years ago.  Evolution Control Comittee... some of those = rough=20 trade singles combining missy elliot and metallica and the like... but = still,=20 those works pale in comparison to what Oswald accomplished years ago, and=20 probably without the help of the techno gadgetry we have today.
 
To me, it's Oswalds MIXING that makes him amazing.  Throwing= =20 things together isn't hard, really... making them fit = together=20 is.
 
Anyway, each artists work is singular to that artist, and none should = be=20 held up to any others, but I guess they inevitably do...
 
what a pie-eyed dreamer I can be.
 
Chuck P.
 
 
On Sun, 30 Dec 2001 17:27:27 EST JonAbbey2@aol.com writes:
> >=20 In a message dated 12/30/01 5:10:31 PM, fripp@mn.mediaone.net
>=20 writes:
>
> << I cannot see how you can consider Oswald'= s=20 approach to be "just
> throwing them all together".  Have you = ever=20 listened to Plexure?  Even if
> you haven't heard that piece, = his=20 other plunderphonics works can hardly
> be considered "thrown=20 together".  To me his works are very coherent. 
>=20 >>
>
> I agree, you guys are being awfully tough on = Oswald.=20 sure,
> some of his work sounds dated, but he was definitely
> groundbreaking in this genre. much of the original=20 plunderphonic
> record holds up pretty well, specifically the first = eight or=20
> nine tracks.
>
> and whoever cited DJ Shadow,=20 Endtroducing also sounds pretty dated
> now, and that's only = five=20 years old, not thirteen like Plunderphonic.
>
> Jon
> <= A=20 href=3D"http://www.erstwhilerecords.com/">www.erstwhilerecords.com
&= gt;=20
> -
>
>
 
----__JNP_000_5d4a.6438.4c5b-- ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M Pathos" Subject: Re: plunderphonics/etc. Date: 31 Dec 2001 08:19:51 -0700 Technique is interesting and important. But it can't redeem art that's emotionally, if not intellectualy, sterile. I can't help but think that people like Oswald are as Prog-gy as Gentle Giant - they just replace Dungeons & Dragons with Deleuze & Derrida. < < zlist folk, Not to dismiss anyone's opinion, as everyone is entitled to their own, but to a guy like me, who sits in front of a multitrack mixer every work day and damn near every day off, Oswalds work is mind numbingly incredible. Sure, it may not move along like DJ Shadow record, but Plunderphonics doesn't seem to be a precursor to Endtroducing. They are different in their construction, if not their source material, and the intended results couldn't be further apart. It's difficult for me to even come up with an artist today who is doing the same thing that Oswald was doing 13 years ago. Evolution Control Comittee... some of those rough trade singles combining missy elliot and metallica and the like... but still, those works pale in comparison to what Oswald accomplished years ago, and probably without the help of the techno gadgetry we have today. To me, it's Oswalds MIXING that makes him amazing. Throwing things together isn't hard, really... making them fit together is. Anyway, each artists work is singular to that artist, and none should be held up to any others, but I guess they inevitably do... what a pie-eyed dreamer I can be. Chuck P. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert Subject: Best Director's Duo Date: 31 Dec 2001 16:25:25 +0100 List, I hope all members took the time to watch some movies directed by the brothers Coen. These are the most important to me: The Man Who Wasn't There O Brother, Where Art Thou Fargo greetings, Rob @ risk np: Hothouse Flowers - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chuckp8@juno.com Subject: Re: plunderphonics/etc. Date: 31 Dec 2001 07:34:56 -0800 Thanks for helping to make my point.... ;) the emotionally bankrupt chuck p. On Mon, 31 Dec 2001 08:19:51 -0700 "M Pathos" writes: > Technique is interesting and important. But it can't redeem art > that's emotionally, if not intellectualy, sterile. I can't help but think > that people like Oswald are as Prog-gy as Gentle Giant - > Anyway, each artists work is singular to that artist, and none > should be held up to any others, but I guess they inevitably do... > > what a pie-eyed dreamer I can be. > > Chuck P. > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > - > > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Humor Date: 31 Dec 2001 11:25:25 -0500 As many people complain about "jokes" or "pranks" in music, I'm reminded of a group that many people on this list enjoy immensely, Mr. Bungle. Though their two most recent albums lack the overt sophomoric humor of their debut, there is definitely a humor about Disco Volante (albeit twisted) and even California. I could see where DV could be considered one big joke, but this has been hailed as a work of genius (which I would agree with, by the way). I'm confused... Wasn't Naked City involved in the occasional silliness, especially when Mr. Eye was involved? Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew Mitchell" Subject: RE: Best Director's Duo Date: 31 Dec 2001 12:11:44 -0500 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I tend to at least like everything they've done. My favorites are 'Barton Fink' and 'Big Lebowski,' though, just utter classics, I think. O Brother might be along my least favorites of theirs, though I still like it. -matt mitchell The Man Who Wasn't There O Brother, Where Art Thou Fargo ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
I tend to at least like everything they've done.  My favorites are 'Barton Fink' and 'Big Lebowski,'  though, just utter classics, I think.  O Brother might be along my least favorites of theirs, though I still like it.
 
-matt mitchell
 
The Man Who Wasn't There
O Brother, Where Art Thou
Fargo
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: Best Director's Duo Date: 31 Dec 2001 13:29:00 -0500 on 01.12.31 10:25 AM, Rob Allaert at roballaert@mac.com wrote: > List, > > I hope all members took the time to watch some movies directed by the > brothers Coen. These are the most important to me: > > The Man Who Wasn't There > O Brother, Where Art Thou > Fargo But what about BLOOD SIMPLE ??? happyholidays, RL ---------- *** Many THINGS 4 SALE *** [Updated: 01.12.01] http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html ---------- [ All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ] Sessionographies : CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies : COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN. Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN; HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag-- ETC., - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Fwd: Best Director's Duo Date: 31 Dec 2001 19:44:10 +0100 (CET) Hi, > I hope all members took the time to watch some > movies directed by the > brothers Coen. Sure! "Miller's Crossing". I should've included that among my 2001 favorite discoveries. Best, Efrén del Valle n.p: Ennio Morricone "Mondo Morricone" _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Frank Kuehn Subject: Another LYNCH question - Date: 31 Dec 2001 13:15:07 -0700 Any of you insiders - Now that David Lynch is reissuing his classics, is there any chance in hell for a director's cut of the much-maligned(but incredibly awesome, in my opinion) DUNE? I hear it was originally about 3 hours, before it was pared down for commercial release.... Dan in Taos - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Vandelaar" Subject: Happy New Year Date: 01 Jan 2001 10:19:37 +1030 Let me be the first (!?) to wish you all a Happy New Year. It's been 2002 for over 10 hours already here in Australia. I do more lurking than posting ... but it has to be the most interesting listserv around. As for John Oswald's plunderings ... I think he did a great job with 'GRAYFOLDED', the 'remix' of Grateful Dead's 'Dark Star'. Does it sound dated? Not to the ears of this 40 something hippy :-) Cheers, Michael - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ahorton Subject: RE: plunderphonics/etc. Date: 31 Dec 2001 19:21:47 -0500 >To me, it's Oswalds MIXING that makes him amazing. Throwing things >together isn't hard, really... making them fit together is. That's the whole point; Oswald doesn't mix them at all; they're literally "thrown together" with no form or function. A good comparison would be the recent Avalanches record, "Since I left you", which is 100% sample-based, from little hits and noises down to extended riffs. It's not a terrific record, but it's a great pop record. Even though they're working with (supposedly) 900+ samples, it all fits together nicely. Oswald just sort of "throws everything together." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jon Mooneyham Subject: RE: plunderphonics/etc. Date: 31 Dec 2001 19:17:24 -0600 > >To me, it's Oswalds MIXING that makes him amazing. Throwing things >>together isn't hard, really... making them fit together is. > >That's the whole point; Oswald doesn't mix them at all; they're literally >"thrown together" with no form or function. I'm sorry, but no, that is simply not true. Because Oswald eschews standard signposts like a nice, steady 4/4 beat doesn't mean his pieces are formless OR functionless. He's often keying in to other aspects of the source material: vocal phrasing, textures, context, contrasts, &c.; then deploys a variety of techniques to manipulate the source: multilayering, varispeed, juxtaposition, blah blah blah=8A They're hardly "thrown together". You shouldn't blithely dismiss his work just because you can't tap your tootsies or shake your groove thing to it. >A good comparison would be the >recent Avalanches record, "Since I left you", which is 100% sample-based, f= rom >little hits and noises down to extended riffs. It's not a terrific record, = but >it's a great pop record. Even though they're working with (supposedly) 900+ >samples, it all fits together nicely. Oswald just sort of "throws everythin= g >together." Not a good comparison, even though I own and enjoy the Avalanches album. Their work is far more along the lines of Coldcut or Hank Shocklee's work for Public Enemy - i.e., eclectic samples massaged into (chiefly) 4/4 grooves - whereas Oswald's aesthetic kindred are Negativland, the Tape Beatles/Public Works, and similar merry pranksters (check out detritus.net). Happy New Year, all y'all, Jon M. NP: Herbert, _Bodily Functions_ NR: Martin Amis, _London Fields_ -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: plunderphonics/etc. Date: 01 Jan 2001 12:20:46 +1100 The Avalanches tends to have a beat, making it relatively listener-friendly. Oswald's stuff (as far as I know it) nearly never worries about either of those things, and is more concerned with meaning, context, sounds... For example taking something as simple yet well-known as the final chord from the Beatles 'Day In The Life', and making it the basis for a piece, or taking snippets of Naked City thrash-jazz and trying to make an 8-second piece with as much (if not more) intensity as the originals... His stuff seems to be all form and function, but obviously, being experimental music, it isn't going to be as clear as something like the Avalanches... > That's the whole point; Oswald doesn't mix them at all; they're literally > "thrown together" with no form or function. A good comparison would be the > recent Avalanches record, "Since I left you", which is 100% sample-based, from > little hits and noises down to extended riffs. It's not a terrific record, but > it's a great pop record. Even though they're working with (supposedly) 900+ > samples, it all fits together nicely. Oswald just sort of "throws everything > together." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Best Director's Duo Date: 01 Jan 2001 12:31:30 +1100 > The Man Who Wasn't There This has been mentioned a few times, just wondering what everyone thought of it..? I've liked everything the Coen Brothers have done, this was no exception, but I just found it a bit slow-moving. The style was perfect, the acting was mostly great, I just found myself wanting a bit more to happen. What do you all think? Julian. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: plunderphonics/etc. Date: 01 Jan 2001 02:15:44 +0000 >From: "M Pathos" >To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: plunderphonics/etc. >Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 08:19:51 -0700 > >Technique is interesting and important. But it can't redeem art that's >emotionally, if not intellectualy, sterile. I can't help but think that >people like Oswald are as Prog-gy as Gentle Giant... If subjectively speaking you find Oswald's work emotionally or intellectually sterile, that's fine, but please qualify it as your personal opinion. Plunderphonics is actually quite a dangerous art, in the truest sense (just read the history of Oswald's sampling work in the notes, especially his dealings with the CRIA and its president Brian Robertson) , and along with other 'samplers' like the visionary Steinski and Lucky People Center, it is dealing directly with that enormous dilemma hovering over the music business today: namely who owns the airwaves? Do music corporations and publishing companies actually own the sounds you hear and maintain control of CD content after you have purchased it? Is sampling only available to those that can afford to pay performance rights? Is any musician producing completely original sounds, chord progressions, etc. that are copyrightable? I know polemics don't qualify good music, but the fact that someone is breaking down other recorded musics to recreate new work with is pretty revolutionary, at least in my book. Isn't that what Schaeffer, Henry, Stockhausen etc. did with musique concrete, only with 'safe' source material? This is a continuation of that exploration. You should check out Steinski's 'Right Thing To Do' put together 10 years ago in response to the Gulf War. A year ago it may have sounded quite dated, but in view of the current president and his 'Politics for Profit' agenda, it is completely topical. Sure anyone could sample a George Bush, but to catch him rhyming melodically is a stroke of genius. Plunderphonics is a direct response to pop music kultur; sampling allows the 'composer' access to any and all sounds for his musical palette. Oswald, as has been reiterated, has focused on the prankish nature of the medium, but there are definite political ramifications to what he's done. Oh, and incidentally Gentle Giant were a great band, with lots of warmth, humour and interesting ideas... np: Schnittke Concerto Grosso 1 _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: RE: plunderphonics/etc. Date: 01 Jan 2001 02:38:23 >Technique is interesting and important. But it can't redeem art >that's >emotionally, if not intellectualy, sterile. I can't help but >think that >people like Oswald are as Prog-gy as Gentle Giant - they >just replace >Dungeons & Dragons with Deleuze & Derrida. Well, I think that's being a little hard on Gentle Giant. And Dungeons & Dragons. But I'll let someone else pick up on that point. What I was going to say is that, while I agree that some of the Plunderphonics stuff strikes me as sterile, not all of it does. For example, the Carly Simon/Faster Pussycat "You're So Vein" collage (which Brian O. also mentioned). To me, that is emotionally moving as well technically amazing, and also kind of funny. That's my favorite one on there. >That's the whole point; Oswald doesn't mix them at all; they're >literally >"thrown together" with no form or function. [...] Oswald >just sort of >"throws everything together." I think someone else beat me to this, but this is not true. To use the "You're so Vain" example again(I guess the track is actually called "vane"), the cuts are really extremely precise, and with a strong sense of form/function/coherence. There are other examples, but I don't have all night here ... Anyway, I guess my name was mentioned as someone who found this release more "interesting" than satisfying on a gut level, and that is true for the most part. My favorite part of the release, apart from five or six of the tracks that I go back to, are the liner notes (and the packaging). _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: RE: plunderphonics/etc. Date: 01 Jan 2001 02:41:36 >As many people complain about "jokes" or "pranks" in music, I'm >reminded >of a group that many people on this list enjoy immensely, >Mr. Bungle. Maybe the people who are complaining don't like Mr. Bungle either? >Though their two most recent albums lack the overt sophomoric humor of >their debut, there is definitely a humor about >Disco Volante (albeit >twisted) and even California. Yes, definitely. I started listening to Mr. B after I had heard aa lot of their related side projects (or thing they had at least been involved with in some way) on Amarillo -- the Three Doctors, Neil Hamburger, the Great Phone Calls album, etc. -- and coming at it from that angle, the prank/humor element is hard to miss. Then again, Mr. B is a lot more conventionally "musical" and easy to get into than Oswald on a day-to-day listening basis. I've listened to Disco Volante 200 times, at least, but still haven't made it through the Plunderphonics 2CD in one sitting. Then again, I wonder if 60 pages of liner notes and interviews on the ins and outs of DV would be as interesting as the ones in the Plunderphonics package ... _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com -